Charles, I have been running tubeless tires on my road bike for about 5 years. I have always used my normal floor pump when inflating. I've never had to use my air compressor. I've never had an issue with burping. Cleanup is pretty easy if you use alcohol. I like being able to run lower pressures than I would have to if I ran tubes.
Lucky you! For the lower pressure part, I would have agree with you a few years back. I was running 25mm-26mm tires at 70PSI when a tube needed 90PSI But now running bigger tires (28-32) I actually run them with TPU tubes at the same pressure I used to with tubeless around 70PSI, never pinched flatted and super comfortable!
You made good points , but I'm determined to stick with tubeless and not go back , it works 85 to 90 percent of the time , so for 10 to 15 % of the time I suffer maybe ? The odds are good in my estimation ? P.S. Are they paying you to make that video ? 😂
Zero faff, zero mess with tubeless here also. Almost all my training rides are drop/no-wait group rides (or races,) so a flat ruins my day. Use Orange Seal instead of whatever trash sealant you’ve been using. Use DynaPlugs for the rare problematic puncture.
The newest version of RideNow's TPU tubes (threaded, metal stems with removable valve cores) are a delight. Never using butyl or latex tubes again. The weight AND SIZE advantages of TPU tubes are GLORIOUS!
Oh Charles you are poking the tubeless religion; perfect topic to get engagement. I agree with 100% of your statements here and had the same experience. In 3 latest occurrences of flats in group rides (no me, others) they were set tubeless, did not seal, and had to install tube and remove valve in messy goop while we were waiting for them. 2 of them were in cold conditions. In 1 of them I got squirted on by someone else's sealant that did not seal.
ahahaahah definitely a religion!!! The comment section is on fire. Nothing worst than following a rider and get splash from his scealant in the face lol
@@CharlesOuimet tubes v tubeless, disc v rim, electronic v mechanical shifting, flats v clipless, carbon fibre v steel/aluminium, shimano v sram, sweet spot v periodization - there is no topic that cyclists will NOT argue about!
I 100% agree! I am an experienced mechanic and a lifelong cyclist. Every point you made is spot on. I have been telling my friends and teammates these same reasons for why tubeless is not a great option for most road riders. I get frustrated when my friends who have zero bike maintenance skills get swayed into going tubeless--and then they need some to fix their tires every time they get a puncture. Tubes are the best option.
I've seen people run like Kush core and stuff and like inner foam you put inside your tires do you still need a tube or a tubeless set up to run those I'm just curious and still learning thank you??
I have had a lot of good luck running tubeless. But, I have called it quits on the road bike. I have two road bikes now and it is just too much hassle. I had two wheels for my old bike, but only ran the deeper carbon wheels the majority of the time. When I went to the mountains and checked my climbing wheels, the sealant was dried out. So, I took the deep carbon wheels. Now that I have two road bikes, I decided to go with TPU. I cannot work up the nerve to go to tubes in the gravel bike. Yes, I did just have to remove my gravel tires, clean out the dried sealant, and set them back up. As for the fit, I also agree with that. I got some non-tubless GP5000 tires for the new aero bike. They went on so easily!!
punctures depend on luck. plain and simple. a shitty object will rip through any system. saying you haven't had any punctures means you're just lucky. I've had cheap as tyres not get punctures and I've had super puncture resistance tyres last a day.
@@out_spockenI totally agree with the luck thing I don't have a good luck when it comes to casino and stuff like that but when getting flats I haven't had a flat and 8 or 10 months of riding in the last one that I got I jumped off a curb and smash it in between two rocks so gave me a hard pinch flat and dented in the rim but it was on a cheap bicycle as well
I keep listening to why I should get tubeless tiers and I was never convinced. I've rode clinchers my whole life all the extras involved with going tubeless just never seemed worth it to me. I get one flat a summer on average here in Mtl. on my rode bike riding at good old fashion 85-90 PSI. going to have to look into those new tubes your talking about. I usually by mine from Canadian Tier. I just ordered 4 tubes from your link. I should be good for a couple of years now!
Thank you for your discussion. It is true. Tubeless is not painless. However, I think you make it sound far worse then it really is. All my bikes have been run tubeless since 2017. During that time I have NEVER experienced a flat. Last week I was mountain biking outside of Alice Springs in Australia's Northern Territory. I was hours away from town out in the desert with lots of thorny vegetation, travelling over sharp rocky terrain. I would never risk taking wheels with tubes in the tyres in such an environment. I would much rather trust a tubeless system.
I couldn't agree more Charles! I have found tubeless is definitely not optimum for me on my road bike. I started with Mavic rims and tyres and they seemed great, initially, except occasionally going flat when not riding for a few days. After a year or so the tyres suffered delamination causing sealant filled blisters on the tread. Replaced like for like, then got a cut puncture that never fully sealed. Nothing too major to put me off tubeless at that point, so new carbon wheels, Conti 5000 tyres and Silca sealant purchased. All good for a few months then another puncture that wouldn't seal, even with a plug. Removing the tyre, there was a huge ball of semi congealed sealant, so decided to fit new tyres and switch to Stans. OK for about a year until replacing the rear tyre (due to cracking) and the quantity of dried lumps of old sealant was enough to finally send me back to tubes. Yes, I could put up with the mess and the tight fit and the inflating and the topping up... but only if there was some tangible advantage! I am very happy with my TPU tubes, lightweight clinchers and no less punctures! I only do 4-5,000km per year, if I was doing a lot more, I might consider tubeless, as I would want to be changing tyres more often and so I wouldn't need to worry so much about the congealed sealant. Together with a waxed chain my clothes are definitely much happier too!
Agree with all of this. I went on holiday with my family earlier in the summer, while there, my Dad decided he wanted to top up his tubeless sealant before going on a ride. We spent the next 2 or 3 hours trying to get the tyre to seat. He ended up taking one of my spare tubes and running that. The benefits of tubeless are not worth the effort. RideNow tubes are cheap, fully recyclable and roll great, it's one of those rare win, win, win situations. I'd encourage anyone who runs tubeless to give them a try next time they get a puncture tubeless can't repair.
Hard disagree. Had tubeless on my MTB for 15 years, had tubeless on the last two road bikes for 7 years. Tubeless is not messy to fill up, use a tubeless syringe, zero mess. Set a reminder in your phone to top it up every 3-6 months. Replace it annually when you replace the tyres. Road bikes I've run Winspace Hypers and Shimano Durace Tubeles carbon rims. GP5000's I've never had an issue getting on and off the rims with normal plastic levers. Never had an issue inflating with a regular floor pump. Tubeless is a life saver, the amount of times commuting and out for social rides I'd get a flat and have to stop, take the tyre off, replace the tube and ride again... now with Tubeless I've never had a situation where I've not been able to simply keep riding. No matter what I've run over, you hear the hiss and unless it's really bad you just keep riding.. no issues, no stopping. The worst is a leak it can't seal or a where the hit took out too much tyre pressure. SImply stop, use a Dynaplug if required, and hit the tyre with a CO2 gas canister. Simple. No mess. No fuss, no getting out levers/tubes.
I run tubeless tires on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years now and when u don’t buy hookless (which is a whole other story) I could not disagree more … In fact I’ve not one of your mentiont problems in all those years
Many of your points are accurate. You need to heat the tire for first installation. That helps. I had issues mounting until I got good at it. The reason I will stick to tubeless is I switched after 3 flats in 2 weeks. I have had 2 flats in 5 years. I have only burped once. Just stop and pump it up or it will be dangerous. I don’t lose hardly any sealant. Not having flats is just too much fun.
I am satisfied with my Michelin Power Cup TLR 25. They are easy to mount on my Light Bicycle RRU35C02. And the sealing was quickly done well with the Dynamic Barkeeper sealant. These rims fit well on the Hutchinson: easy to mount, easy to inflate. The Vittoria Corsa N.Ext are tighter to remove. I rode with TPU tubes for a few months without a puncture. I find that assembly is easier in tubeless than with a TPU chamber already used. As a MTBer, I have the right pump for tubeless tires. And I buy the sealant in a 1L bottle.
Almost everything has pluses and minuses. That being said, I’ve run tubeless for 10+ years on road bikes. We have 4 riders in the household and only two times in the past 10 years have I had to tube the tire during a ride. While it took a little extra time, I was not left stranded either time. I will admit, there are certain tire rim combinations I avoid, but it’s not a deal breaker. For me, the benefits of running lower pressure far outweigh the downsides.
Faster, easy at roadside, easy at home, easy maintainance, easy on wallet. We all would love to see all the top tyres offered in non tubeless version. It is always going to be faster with performance tubes ( UL TPU, or Latex) BECAUSE NO TUBELESS MEMBRANES. NO SEALANT. THANK YOU !!!!!
Agree, I'm sticking with Conti for years and years because they maintain their clincher gp5000. Would love to try the Corsa pros, but not paying a premium for a heavy tubeless tire...
Been riding for 30 years racing mtb and riding road. Had about 30 bikes and rode tubeless for a few years on the mtb. I’ve stopped using tubeless around 10 years ago and I still rarely flat. I love the simplicity of tubes and I know what tire pressures I can get away with. Tubeless adds maintenance and complications that do not improve my riding experience.
Excellent Charles, thank you. I am on your side here. The issue can be quite polarizing and evidence is generally antidotal at best. I will keep my tubes!
Agree with all your comments and have experienced all of it. I have been a roadie now for 35 years and always up for latest and greatest. Opposing argument, with the new TPU, and Cycplus , I can change to new TPU under 5 mins with ease. You just know what to expect when you lose pressure with TPU. (With the new Cycplus pro and adapter, its self inflating to the absolute pressure).
Most Home mechanics, if you are working, have kids etc maintaining other peoples bile, having multiple bikes, sealant is a full time job. I went back from tubeless after a year in 2020. especialy in Quebec where your bikes have to go throw winter not moving. I do latex and TPU depending on the bike.
For dried up sealant, I find natural rubber eraser to work the best. No harsh chemicals needed, just a bit of elbow grease and presto, dried up sealant gone
Still doesn't fit the argument for me about you can just swap the tube and get ready to go in less than 10 minutes instead I have something to use elbow grease get that dry sea went up and then go through the whole sealing process again
I completely agree with you. I’ve been using tippy tubes for a couple of months now, both of my gravel and road bikes, and so far no flats and beautiful feeling when riding them.
Many keep thinking tubeless tires help you seal it nicely. But you guys need to think it properly, they are times the nail might just 5-10mm long that narrowly punctured your tires and sealed... But if there is a tube in it, it might not puncture too because the nail is not long enough to actually damage the tube. You get what i mean. Many tubeless fanboy might think the sealant helping to seal, but they forgotten tubeless tires has nothing in it, any small nail or anything cut through will cause a hole and leaked. But when they is a big hole on tubeless, you'll need a tube to save you.
I tried Ridenow, and liked them because they were compact and light. However, the orange version broke at the junction of the plastic valve stem and the valve that threads into the stem, which is something others have complained about. I had inflated to just over 100PSI to seat the tire as straight has possible and then noticed a slow leak and then complete failure. Fortunately it was not on the road. I tried another brand with a metal valve stem, but does not fit my track pump which has a threaded chuck, very well and leaks. It works with my frame pump. Hopefully as TPU replaces butyl, all of these problems will worked out. For now, I've gone back to latex, which I love for its plush, bouncy ride, but needs to be re-inflated every 2 or 3 days or so. One thing I agree with is that tubeless doesn't make much sense anymore because it is also too difficult for manufacturers to precisely manufacture rims and tires so that the interface fits exactly, across so many different brands of products, in addition to sealing up holes for spokes or making the bed without holes. Only way tubeless would make sense is if they worked like car tires, without need for sealant or tape.
I've never converted to tubeless because it just seemed like a lot of work. Your video has confirmed this. Lots of people in comments agree with you also. Excellent video!
For road, for me, the time calculous of tubeless doesn't add up. Game changer for off road. At around 7,000 mile per year on 28 or 30mm road tires I've been getting around 3 flats per year. It takes around 5 minutes to change a tube. So my time investment for tubed tires is about 15 minutes per year. Say I don't get any flats on tubeless I still have to change the tires at least two times for tire wear as well as the initial setup. That extra time investment is much more than 15 minutes not to mention top up and cleaning out old sealant.
Thanks. One thing You've missed (not a first hand experience, reported by other cyclist UA-camrs): in case of high pressures of road tires even a small hole might not seal since the high pressure differential will continue pushing on a slightly plugged hole until your tire loses significant amount of initial pressure.
Regular tubes on road bikes has made a huge boost in simplicity and quick repair. Traveling. Minor maintenance. So easy. Not doing back to tables for road.
I'm a tubeless fan, just not on my road bike. It's a lot heavier, it's not faster, it's more expensive and there's more maintenance. Tyre pressure is a moot point, I can easily go as low as I need to with tubes. If you puncture a lot then maybe tubeless is the better option, other than that I don't see what the benefits are.
I have never tried tubeless and i'm sure i'm gonna hate it. The best thing for me is riding with latex tubes and having a TPU tube in my saddle bag. I found that latex tubes are more confortable to ride than TPU tubes.
Nice video! One point I think you missed, don't know if you had the experience when changing over to clinchers... maybe it was my particular rims and tires. When I started riding my new bike I went tubeless, mostly because new bike, new tech as I've always used clinchers with tubes or tubulars before. It worked great for a year and even topped off sealant partway through that lifespan, right up until my first flat which the sealant didn't seal, so it was a walk back to my shop to put in a tube... where I discovered that tubeless tires full of sealant are incredibly difficult to pry out of the hooks of a tubeless-ready rim... they were extremely well-glued to the tight rim hooks, more than any tubular tire I ever used. Had to use channel locks to get enough tire bead dislodged to remove them. Eventually got new clincher-ready tires and RideNows, and will not do tubeless again
TPU tubes are a nightmare. I bought expensive Pirellis and went through three of them in a single race. It was only after switching to a regular tube that I could keep riding. In two months, I burned through five TPU tubes. For the next race, I used tubeless sealant, and I had zero issues. Admittedly, for daily rides, I've switched back to regular tubes. TPU tubes, even from Pirelli, are a nightmare. And, of course, I’m talking about gravel riding. ;)
This video wan't for gravel ;) But yeah I'd never run tubes for off road. You need to much PSI so your wheels become slippery and don't have lot's of control off road. If you run lower PSI, the risk of pinch flat is too high.
The Pirelli and Tubolito tpu tubes aren't the best and are seriously overpriced. I'd recommend the latest RideNow ones (with the clear looking valve stem) or don't bother at all imho.
Agreed. Tubeless on road is not worth it. I've done it on my road bikes and thought it was the way to go, but everything you mentioned is on point. A couple of times the sealant didn't seal. I either had to use a plug or put in a tube. The mess was not worth the hassle. And not to mention i don't ride my road bikes much and the sealant tends to dry up and i have to make sure to check and top off. Also when I do get a chance to ride more I always had to check the tire pressure before a ride. Went back to tubes because the wheelset I picked up was the 1st gen Roval CLX and not tubeless compatible. Yup not going back to tubeless on my road bikes in the future. No need. However my MTB's will always be tubeless. Tubeless in my opinion works better at lower PSI and big tires.
Almost finished my first full year of tubeless on 700-30 road and 700-38 gravel and at 5500 miles and rising till December flat free and mess free while running high performance tires
As a non racer I will never run road tubeless. I get a flat once every...4-5 years or so. So what's the point? I'm even thinking of going back to tubes on my gravel bike. Having to maintain the sealant is a total pain. I don't wear out a set of tires every year so I have to take the tires off and clean out the sealant. Huge mess and terrible waste of time. Now if I was racing or riding more aggressively and flatting would be more regular then sure it makes sense.
100% d'accord avec toi, j'étais un des premiers avec du tubeless v'la 5-6 ans avec le setp-up mavic et je n'ai pas eu de succès. Je suis passé au tpu et c'est parfait, mon mtb et mon fat sont tubeless mais tellement moins de pression. Je crois que c,est aussi parfait pour le gravel. J'ai commandé des TPU Cyclami sur Aliexpress 24$ pour 4 avec valves 85mm.
When I purchased a new road bike that came tubeless compatible, including the initial sealant, I told the LBS not to set it up tubeless. There were too many reports of hassle including the mentioned on-going maintenance. Finally when I read the recommendation to always carry at least one inner tube, just-in-case, I couldn't see the point. As mentioned here I use TPU tubes (RideNow) including as my spares which allows my frame storage to be maximized. This has been a good decision a couple of years on.
Road and MTB tubeless are completely appart by a whole cliff, I recon tubeless sucks in Road because how the pressure release makes it basically useless, but in non red bull-like MTB and bikepacking it is a charm, I've forgotten my pump, patches & tubes for a loooong time.
Thanks, Charles, it's rare to hear about the negatives of tubeless; or that you can use tubes inside tubeless wheels n tires. As an auto-mechanic of 40+ yrs, I've learned to avoid mess whenever possible, someone has to clean it up, ...and by the side of the road, no thank you! Frozen sealant, I hadn't thought of that before, but perhaps that's just my location! 🤔 🙃
I did not talked about tubeless plugs in this video because I've never really had a successful plug emergency repair. A few on the gravel, not on the road. I always ended up needing a tube :)
wtf , i ride 30k a year , with 3 bikes , gp5000 , i have in last 2 years not have to put in 1 inner tube . and i live in belgium . just ride 4bar , when you have a puncture , put in a dynaplug and go , its 30sec of work . if the sealent is dry and gone, you just have to pump it more , still no flats 🤣 put in the sealent ( syringe ) and go again , if you run bontrager wheels , you can just use a normal pump .
@@CharlesOuimet Dynaplugs are the best. I’ve used 3 in the last year. They’re so convenient and easy. I find the dynaplugs can stay in the tire till its time to replace them.
All my road plug repairs have been successful. I use effeto mariposa bacon/plug. And actually, using tubes for tubeless setup is not a good idea, as there is a high chance of it failing. Also, curious what sealant you are using. I hope not stans. Stans suck. I use vittoria. But I think all the points you raised are valid. It's just that for me, I get the reward with all the hassle, because tubeless always works for my road setup, but I never run less than 30c at 55-58 psi, because low pressure is key to success in road tubeless.
Hey Charles, love your videos! I'm 67 and have been using and still use butyle tubes all my life. I now use lightweight butyle tubes. I know how to fix them out on the road, well I just use the spare I carry, and I have a patch kit just in case, never had to use this though. I ride gravel and road, and I have confidence in my set up. But, I think I'll take your advise and carry TPU in my saddlebag as spare.
I've been using TPU tubes in my 50 year old road bike that I bought new. Patches are less practical on the road than with butyl because of a need for longer cure time, but I carry 2 spares in less space than one butyl tube.
Bravo Charles pour cette analyse très complète et pertinente des tubuless! Mon vélo récent venait avec des tubuless mais à la fin de l'été, je suis revenu aux tubes. Juste le fait que la valve restait coincée et rendait le gonflage quasi impossible. En plus, devoir en rajouter chaque saison m'a fait revenir aux tubes. J'avais aussi la hantise de devoir réparer au bord de la route avec le mess du scellant. En revanche, pour les TPU, je n'ai pas eu de bonnes expériences. 3 tubes de suite avec perforations sans même avoir roulé et pourtant j'avais bien inspecté les jantes et le pneu. Je n'ai jamais réussi à réparer avec la patch fourni avec les tpu. Pour le 4e tpu, j'ai constamment à gonfler pour compenser la perte d'air après 2-3 jours. Ridenow la marque.
I've had similar experiences (frame sprayed with sealant, impossible tire installs etc) and also have gone to tpu tubes on my road bike. Thinking my next gravel bike will have them too. Nearly tubeless performance without the hassle. I haven’t found them nearly as cheap as you say, but still think they are worth it.
I love running tubeless on my mountain bike but prefer tpu tubes on my road bike. When I get a gravel bike, I'll prob run tubeless with large gravel tires.
I'm surprised you went straight from sealant failing to seal a puncture to putting a tube inside without considering plugging the puncture. I carry Dynaplug with me and when the sealant fails to seal the puncture immediately, I plug it. Out of the dozen or so punctures I have had since going road tubeless, all except the last one were successfully sealed by sealant (Silca/Orange Seal). The one that the sealant could not seal, I used a Dynaplug. I do agree with some of your other arguments that sealant maintenance, the challenge with mounting/seating some rims/tires combinations, and sealant permanently staining your cycling kit can be dealbreaker for some. The ability to run lower tire pressure and not having to stop by the ride of the road to replace a tube to fix a puncture - and yes getting my hands dirty while doing that - are more than enough reasons for me to stick with tubeless, in spite of the cons.
I've been using tubeless sealant since 2018. Stan's was crap on high-pressure road bike tires. Works like a charm on fatbike tires. But even on the road bike it always got me home. Switched to Silca 3 years ago. 2 years on Schwalbe Pro One's, never got a flat (probably did but sealed so quick). This April, i switched to GP 5000 STRs, I got a flat (don't know when) but realized my downtube was covered in latex (conclusion I must have got a puncture). Didn't notice my tire pressure droping 1 psi in 2 years using Silca Ultimate sealant. Nuff said. BTW I do roughly 10,000 kms per year, and I don't carry a spare tube.
@JeanFrancoisDesrosiers yes, even -20 C ... on the fatbike Stan's sealant says it works upto -20 F! 1 winter when I had tubes on my fat bike, I got 4 flats! I needed a better solution.
@CharlesOuimet you jinxed me, man! I went out today and got my first flat in 3 years! I went on vacation in October and haven't toped off my sealant since August 31. Even without sealant I was able to make it home... 😀 I had to stop every 5 or 6 kms to pump up the tire.
I have put nearly 6,000 km on a pair of SILCA latex tubes. I’ve been able to ride without getting any puncture since April!! I’m never going to be a candidate for tubeless on my road bike, so completely agree with this video.
Yeah I stopped using tubeless sealant last year, just put tpu tubes inside the tubeless tyres that have tread left - then I'll use regular clinchers with tpu tubes. I will stay with tubeless for my mountain bikes, I think it's worth the setup hassle and carry a couple of tpu tubes as spares just incase.
Just wanted to leave my experience with RideNow TPU tubes: Not sure if I got a bad batch or if there's a larger QC problem at play, however, I have had 3 tubes this year develop leaks large enough that I thought I had a puncture. However after removing the tube and inspecting (btw water immersion is like the only way to find punctures with these things) for punctures I found that a line or a couple of lines running around 3 inches long had many tiny holes as if the tube material was just too thin in that particular area. These were the RN gravel tubes on 4Oc tires, so well within the range specified. Never going tubeless however, for the reasons you stated, too much hassle, maintenance and most importantly I NEED to have a clean bike, always.
I run tubeless for road and gravel and I carry the proper size RideNow TPU as spares. As they are my last resort if all else fails - sealant, Dynaplug - I hope they won't leak when I do need them! I have heard of a few leaky RideNow TPUs from my teammates.
In clean tires I've had no problems. I had same problem as you when using one in an old tire that had a little dust and debris in it. Wore a tiny hole in it. The supplied patches haven't worked well for me either. Fine at home but riding seems to loosen them. I see my tpu tubes as 1 puncture and done til I find better patches.
Agree about hookless but ill never go back to tubes. I carry one CushCore MTB tyre lever on my road bike that has a handle to make tyre removal easy. Lower pressures mean more comfort PLUS more speed due to lower rolling resistance. Orange sealant peels off easily from tyre and frame. One puncture in 5 years which sealed up without stopping because i only weight 62kg. Run 3.7 - 4.7 Bar.
Je suis d'accord avec toi, par contre, pour le MTB ou la gravel ça reste une bonne option. Pour le vélo de route je suis venu à la même conclusion que toi!
So, my use case is slightly different, but I ran tubeless for years on my CX bike, and I climbed Mont-Royal (up Olmstead) twice a day 2-3 times a week even in the winter. I never had an issue with the sealant in the cold; they were more reliable than butyl tubes for sure. In the last couple of years before I left Montreal, I was using tubeless in conjunction with (Rimpact) foam inserts, and they're a really good compromise to running tubulars--I could still go down to ~20PSI without worrying about flats and get amazing grip. This is possibly more like mountain biking rather than road, though. But when I moved to BC, I kept using that CX bike as an all-road/gravel bike, and the setup still works really well. But if I were a pure roadie? Yeah, TPU tubes are probably the right option. There's no point to messing with all this stuff if you don't need to run super low pressures and pinch-flats aren't your top concern.
Maintaining your bike shouldn’t be complicated but yet the cycling industry continues doing it. There was a time cycling was a poor man’s hobby and simple
Would expect tubeless to become more popular with roadbikes as tires are getting wider and wider and pressures going down. Also never had any problem seating the the tire with a normal pump as long as you remove the valve core first on the initial seating.
5:00 it will also spew all over the person riding behind the jerkoff who's riding road-tubless, and into his face... which is what happened to me. boy was i pissed
Was changing tires and reused the TPU tube. No problems but the TPU tube looks all stretched and “beat up”, but they still working fine with the new tires. Just a little concerned with how the TPU tube looked.
Other than the extreme cold weather & weight with tpu, none of those points have merit On tpu tubes I would get at least 3 punctures a month. Silca sealant is amazing! I've had 1 cut I had to plug in the last year (large chunk of glass) mostly I realize I had a puncture after I'm home. Plugs are your friend (I didn't even lose half the air). I always carry a pump & backup tube. Every wheel & tire manufacturer has compatibility charts now. I ride a tubless clincher wheelset. I find tubless looses less air than tpu(maybe it's the good sealant). I'm over 200 lbs & have never had a tire burp! I seat tires with a regular track pump (high flow valves are your friend)I use the reserve fillmore valves & the new muc off ones are interesting. I guess I feel not having to ever pull a tire off on the side of the road has been amazing & I've not had that experience with tubes.
Totally Agree. Used sealant on my road bike running 100psi in the tyres and sealant never worked. Plugs lasted only a few miles and i then ran out of CO2 canisters. I did carry a spare inner tube but getting it in the tyre was nigh on impossible without pinching the tube. I have been riding and doing my own maintenance for over 30 years. Going back to standard tyres and tubes was bliss and I ride in the knowledge that I can always get home with the aid or a new tube or patch. No more Uber rides home! Tubeless has it's place, but on high pressure road tyres(over 90psi) I'd say it is stretching the technology too far.
100psi? What tubeless setup are you running that you need 100psi in it? And I could be wrong, but that "recommended max" is 80 something if I remember correct. I'm 6'2 - 240 and run 80-85ish psi on 28mm tires.
@@bockersjv It still sounds like you're dangerously over inflating for tubeless. I doubt there is a sealant in the world that would work reliably under that pressure. I personally would look into making changes in the setup you're riding. Stay safe and happy riding.
Dangerous? What are you talking about. The recommended pressure is 116psi. Regardless of the danger i agree sealant will never work, that’s why i don’t use it anymore and have gone back to hassle free tubes. Glad it works for you.
3:27 Its also annoying when you refill the sealant every six months, but you live in Norway and it hasn’t dried at all so you just fill the tire with even more sealant. 😮
Unfortunately I've never tried latex! So I can't speak much about it. I only heard about the air deflating every 24 hours, which is annoying. But I'll give it a try!
@@CharlesOuimet To be clear, I rode only latex/tubulars for 40 years, then switched to butyl/clinchers 5 years ago bc I was fed up with spending my evenings repairing tubulars, messing with glue, etc. I enjoy riding more now that I have bomb-proof wheels and tires, with no flats in 5 years. I'm going to try latex and TPU, with lighter clinchers next season. BTW, you're right about latex, which loses ~20psi/day, so pros sometimes inflate with Nitrogen which is a bigger molecule than air. Latex is lighter, more puncture-resistant, and has lower rolling resistance than butyl. I might roll in 2025 on latex and carry TPU spares, or something like that.
Agree with everything you said but I like latex tubes, myself. they seem to have a small bit of "self-sealing" due to how soft the latex is. I have picked up a small object that got thrown out of the tire and I was able to ride the 40 miles back home without stopping. I ride tubeless on MTB but not on road.
I think I could get on board with getting away from tubeless in only one scenario. If I had an extra wheel-set that was only used for special occasions like climbing. If wheels sit to long then you lose pressure and have the sealant dry up. So then what is the point of all those benefits. However I run a set of 50mm wheels on my road bike and for the most part have no problems. I do on occassion fill up my tires with more sealant usually twice a year. I have very few punctures on the road and this may be because I replace my tires twice a year.
That settles it, I ain't going tubeless on my road bike. Currently riding Slime in my tubes. It has definitely reduced the number of times I've had to change a tube. There's little or no mess. I buy tubes with removable valve cores and use a Stan's injector. The best way to minimize flats is to keep fresh tires on your bike. This is way cheaper to do if you buy non-tubeless tires.
Good for you. Just note that your experience is not the universal experience. I have zero issues running tubeless, and I don't see any way that an inner tube, be it butyl, latex, or TPU, would be an improvement for me. I spent decades running inner tubes with clincher tires, and I have zero interest or see zero benefit in going back. As for messes setting up tubeless? Maybe review your technique. I don't have mess when I do that.
Merino wool socks + Neoprene shoe covers will do the trick between 10 and 0 degrees with road shoes. Under 0, I have SPD fat bike boots Under -15, I will have heating socks with the fat bike boots!
Charles, I am curious what sealant you were using that you could not clean off your bike. I had Silca and Orange Seal sealant sprayed onto my bike and I have not encountered any difficulty removing from non-porous surface like bike frames/components. Now if we're talking about porous things like our expensive cycling kits, that's a different story 🤣
@@CharlesOuimet I guess that another Muc Off product to stay away from. I know you have moved away from tubeless but if you ever have to apply tubeless rim tape, avoid Muc Off tubeless rim tape at all cost. The Muc Off rim tape leaves behind a lot of sticky residue that is very difficult to clean up when the tape is removed.
I ride Mtn bikes and never went tubeless. TPU tubes are much better and add some inserts then you have maybe a 1% chance of the setup failing and ending a ride.
don't now what you do wrong but i am a bike machanic apart from the 2-3 times in the begining i never have problems using conti tyeres and mucoff and silca sealant
A lot of the problems you mention come from the sealant, not from the tubeless technology itself. What about running tubeless tires without sealant? You still get the benefit of removing pinch flats from the equation. Motorbikes and cars are running tubeless tires without sealant by the way
What would be great is to have 2 valves. One to inflate the tubeless tire. And one to inflate an uninflated TPU tube in case of a puncture. So you wouldn't have to remove the wheel and tire in case of a puncture
Tubeless is not perfect, need a lot of maintenance but can be efficient. I had really bad experience with TUP. Maybe bad luck. I'm waiting for them to get better, as the tubeless are better now than they were before.
Are there dedicated clincher non tubeless performance road tyres that needs an inner tube? Most tyres are tubeless compatible and that's where problem starts. Schwalbe One and Schwalbe G-One Speed on Zipp 30 Course or Prime Carbon wheels, you will struggle to get an inner tube in modern tyres now. If you mange to get it in without pinching the inner tube, then you got to struggle getting the tyre on.
Pirelli and Continental still have two version of their fastest road tires. I now always go for the clincher tire because it's lighter and easier to mount. The GP5000 TLR was literally the worst tirer ever when it came to mounting on a rim. RIP my hands and fingers.
I can send You all of my tubes from the past, you can use them and change them every with ride on the side of the road. After three years with TL on road bike I can only notice a puncture after some drops on the seat tube. And remove them with my finger :D
i have switched to TPU tubes since last season in 2023, from cyclami as a rule i will change the tubes for new ones when i switch to a new set of tires have only had one flat during the time i have had the TPU tubes that what due to a sliver of metal , i run 100 psi on the same roads that Charles rides and believe me they are not good, have ridden 4800km with the tubes now on the bike with 28mm continental 5000's tires are still ok , out door season is at a close for myself will be switching to indoor on the trainer , probably will start the 2025 season with the same tires and tubes then switch to a new set for the summer
@@CharlesOuimet possible que j 'essai de rouler avec moins de pression ce me donne le impression que j'ai un perte de pression en route de avoir un crevasion ,presentment je roule avec des conti 5000 S TR , avec TPU, ce que je trouve avec les conti , rendu au 2000-2500km je les switch fornt to back, raison je trouve que les sidewall devient soft, aussi le usure , que je trouve denierment est que meme avec le 100psi les pneu me donne le sensation de etre molle un peut comme si je roulais avec un pression plus bas, rendu au nouveau saison je vais essaier de rouler avec moins de pression , un habitude assez dure a changer a 66ans bientot pas facile comme arreter de aller apres des KOM sur strava les il me reste encore un peut energie surtout sur les distance , je te donnerais des nouvelles en 2025 , esperant que mon epellation et gramar est pas pire, eric
MTB = 1,000% use tubeless (I would go as far as saying it's required to ride Bromont even as a noob lol) Roadies = Tubes and reasonable pressures, even on QC roads. I mean even if you go tubeless you need to carry a tube for emergencies anyway so... I invested in a shop inflator, wheel stand etc so I have the tools to make the tubeless job "easier" but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze with roadies.
What is so terrible about a simple lightweight butyl tube? Most of the TPU tubes I see have fragile valve stems, a no-go for me. Pinch flats are not much of an issue for me with simple butyl tubes so I see no need to change what's worked for decades.
Goat heads. If you ride where there are a lot of goat heads. They migrate onto the road, especially the shoulder where most people ride. They have thin, super hard thorns. Seal up great with sealant but will absolutely go through your tire and tube and flat you. They lay on the road by the hundreds and thousands. You’ll flat over and over on tubes alone
There is a plug from Stan’s I could not recommend enough the so called dart is a game changer The sealant part SILCA has a “refresher” substance that reanimates the sealant Wile the SILCA stuff is reliable if it comes to height pressure tire Also and run tubeless on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years now and never need an air compressor Also I never see a hooked rim burp a tire 🙈🙊🙉but may be Also the compatibility stuff is all a hookless(nonsense )problem
Ps I run tubeless on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years and never need a compressor The burping and compatibility problems is purely a hookless problem…(and I would never buy one of those non.ense rims )
I'm mechanically disabled, but was able to switch to tubeless just as easily as using tubes. One secret is going with the filmore valves for easy floor pump mounting. As for dealing with sealant. I do mine outside and use a hose to wash it into my lawn. Easy peasy.
Charles, I have been running tubeless tires on my road bike for about 5 years. I have always used my normal floor pump when inflating. I've never had to use my air compressor. I've never had an issue with burping. Cleanup is pretty easy if you use alcohol. I like being able to run lower pressures than I would have to if I ran tubes.
Lucky you!
For the lower pressure part, I would have agree with you a few years back.
I was running 25mm-26mm tires at 70PSI when a tube needed 90PSI
But now running bigger tires (28-32) I actually run them with TPU tubes at the same pressure I used to with tubeless around 70PSI, never pinched flatted and super comfortable!
Agree on all points.
You made good points , but I'm determined to stick with tubeless and not go back , it works 85 to 90 percent of the time , so for 10 to 15 % of the time I suffer maybe ? The odds are good in my estimation ? P.S. Are they paying you to make that video ?
😂
@@ramonsanabria1472who would be paying him? lol maybe the sealant company is paying you to comment lol
Zero faff, zero mess with tubeless here also. Almost all my training rides are drop/no-wait group rides (or races,) so a flat ruins my day. Use Orange Seal instead of whatever trash sealant you’ve been using. Use DynaPlugs for the rare problematic puncture.
The newest version of RideNow's TPU tubes (threaded, metal stems with removable valve cores) are a delight. Never using butyl or latex tubes again. The weight AND SIZE advantages of TPU tubes are GLORIOUS!
agreed!!!!
Until the valve starts to come away at the join.
Oh Charles you are poking the tubeless religion; perfect topic to get engagement.
I agree with 100% of your statements here and had the same experience.
In 3 latest occurrences of flats in group rides (no me, others) they were set tubeless, did not seal, and had to install tube and remove valve in messy goop while we were waiting for them. 2 of them were in cold conditions. In 1 of them I got squirted on by someone else's sealant that did not seal.
ahahaahah definitely a religion!!! The comment section is on fire.
Nothing worst than following a rider and get splash from his scealant in the face lol
@@CharlesOuimet tubes v tubeless, disc v rim, electronic v mechanical shifting, flats v clipless, carbon fibre v steel/aluminium, shimano v sram, sweet spot v periodization - there is no topic that cyclists will NOT argue about!
Agree 100%, went back to tubes on my road bikes and so glad I did.
I 100% agree! I am an experienced mechanic and a lifelong cyclist. Every point you made is spot on. I have been telling my friends and teammates these same reasons for why tubeless is not a great option for most road riders. I get frustrated when my friends who have zero bike maintenance skills get swayed into going tubeless--and then they need some to fix their tires every time they get a puncture. Tubes are the best option.
I've seen people run like Kush core and stuff and like inner foam you put inside your tires do you still need a tube or a tubeless set up to run those I'm just curious and still learning thank you??
I have had a lot of good luck running tubeless. But, I have called it quits on the road bike. I have two road bikes now and it is just too much hassle. I had two wheels for my old bike, but only ran the deeper carbon wheels the majority of the time. When I went to the mountains and checked my climbing wheels, the sealant was dried out. So, I took the deep carbon wheels. Now that I have two road bikes, I decided to go with TPU. I cannot work up the nerve to go to tubes in the gravel bike. Yes, I did just have to remove my gravel tires, clean out the dried sealant, and set them back up. As for the fit, I also agree with that. I got some non-tubless GP5000 tires for the new aero bike. They went on so easily!!
Thanks for sharing!! Exactly. I've been in the same situation - not going back!!
TPU tubes for me. Even on my gravel bike. No maintenance and still no punctures after thousands of kms. Keep the simplicity in cycling folks.
I want to like TPU, but too many pinch flats on rougher off-road riding.
punctures depend on luck. plain and simple. a shitty object will rip through any system. saying you haven't had any punctures means you're just lucky. I've had cheap as tyres not get punctures and I've had super puncture resistance tyres last a day.
@@out_spockenI totally agree with the luck thing I don't have a good luck when it comes to casino and stuff like that but when getting flats I haven't had a flat and 8 or 10 months of riding in the last one that I got I jumped off a curb and smash it in between two rocks so gave me a hard pinch flat and dented in the rim but it was on a cheap bicycle as well
I keep listening to why I should get tubeless tiers and I was never convinced. I've rode clinchers my whole life all the extras involved with going tubeless just never seemed worth it to me. I get one flat a summer on average here in Mtl. on my rode bike riding at good old fashion 85-90 PSI. going to have to look into those new tubes your talking about. I usually by mine from Canadian Tier. I just ordered 4 tubes from your link. I should be good for a couple of years now!
Thank you for your discussion. It is true. Tubeless is not painless. However, I think you make it sound far worse then it really is. All my bikes have been run tubeless since 2017. During that time I have NEVER experienced a flat. Last week I was mountain biking outside of Alice Springs in Australia's Northern Territory. I was hours away from town out in the desert with lots of thorny vegetation, travelling over sharp rocky terrain. I would never risk taking wheels with tubes in the tyres in such an environment. I would much rather trust a tubeless system.
I couldn't agree more Charles! I have found tubeless is definitely not optimum for me on my road bike. I started with Mavic rims and tyres and they seemed great, initially, except occasionally going flat when not riding for a few days. After a year or so the tyres suffered delamination causing sealant filled blisters on the tread. Replaced like for like, then got a cut puncture that never fully sealed. Nothing too major to put me off tubeless at that point, so new carbon wheels, Conti 5000 tyres and Silca sealant purchased. All good for a few months then another puncture that wouldn't seal, even with a plug. Removing the tyre, there was a huge ball of semi congealed sealant, so decided to fit new tyres and switch to Stans. OK for about a year until replacing the rear tyre (due to cracking) and the quantity of dried lumps of old sealant was enough to finally send me back to tubes. Yes, I could put up with the mess and the tight fit and the inflating and the topping up... but only if there was some tangible advantage!
I am very happy with my TPU tubes, lightweight clinchers and no less punctures! I only do 4-5,000km per year, if I was doing a lot more, I might consider tubeless, as I would want to be changing tyres more often and so I wouldn't need to worry so much about the congealed sealant.
Together with a waxed chain my clothes are definitely much happier too!
Thanks for sharing!!! We've had pretty much the same experience
Agree with all of this. I went on holiday with my family earlier in the summer, while there, my Dad decided he wanted to top up his tubeless sealant before going on a ride. We spent the next 2 or 3 hours trying to get the tyre to seat. He ended up taking one of my spare tubes and running that. The benefits of tubeless are not worth the effort. RideNow tubes are cheap, fully recyclable and roll great, it's one of those rare win, win, win situations. I'd encourage anyone who runs tubeless to give them a try next time they get a puncture tubeless can't repair.
Hard disagree.
Had tubeless on my MTB for 15 years, had tubeless on the last two road bikes for 7 years.
Tubeless is not messy to fill up, use a tubeless syringe, zero mess. Set a reminder in your phone to top it up every 3-6 months. Replace it annually when you replace the tyres. Road bikes I've run Winspace Hypers and Shimano Durace Tubeles carbon rims.
GP5000's I've never had an issue getting on and off the rims with normal plastic levers. Never had an issue inflating with a regular floor pump.
Tubeless is a life saver, the amount of times commuting and out for social rides I'd get a flat and have to stop, take the tyre off, replace the tube and ride again... now with Tubeless I've never had a situation where I've not been able to simply keep riding. No matter what I've run over, you hear the hiss and unless it's really bad you just keep riding.. no issues, no stopping.
The worst is a leak it can't seal or a where the hit took out too much tyre pressure. SImply stop, use a Dynaplug if required, and hit the tyre with a CO2 gas canister. Simple. No mess. No fuss, no getting out levers/tubes.
exactly that! nothing to add here!
I run tubeless tires on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years now and when u don’t buy hookless (which is a whole other story) I could not disagree more …
In fact I’ve not one of your mentiont problems in all those years
Many of your points are accurate. You need to heat the tire for first installation. That helps. I had issues mounting until I got good at it. The reason I will stick to tubeless is I switched after 3 flats in 2 weeks. I have had 2 flats in 5 years. I have only burped once. Just stop and pump it up or it will be dangerous. I don’t lose hardly any sealant. Not having flats is just too much fun.
I am satisfied with my Michelin Power Cup TLR 25. They are easy to mount on my Light Bicycle RRU35C02. And the sealing was quickly done well with the Dynamic Barkeeper sealant. These rims fit well on the Hutchinson: easy to mount, easy to inflate. The Vittoria Corsa N.Ext are tighter to remove.
I rode with TPU tubes for a few months without a puncture. I find that assembly is easier in tubeless than with a TPU chamber already used. As a MTBer, I have the right pump for tubeless tires. And I buy the sealant in a 1L bottle.
Almost everything has pluses and minuses. That being said, I’ve run tubeless for 10+ years on road bikes. We have 4 riders in the household and only two times in the past 10 years have I had to tube the tire during a ride. While it took a little extra time, I was not left stranded either time. I will admit, there are certain tire rim combinations I avoid, but it’s not a deal breaker. For me, the benefits of running lower pressure far outweigh the downsides.
Faster,
easy at roadside,
easy at home,
easy maintainance,
easy on wallet.
We all would love to see all the top tyres offered in non tubeless version.
It is always going to be faster with performance tubes ( UL TPU, or Latex)
BECAUSE NO TUBELESS MEMBRANES. NO SEALANT.
THANK YOU !!!!!
Agree, I'm sticking with Conti for years and years because they maintain their clincher gp5000. Would love to try the Corsa pros, but not paying a premium for a heavy tubeless tire...
Been riding for 30 years racing mtb and riding road. Had about 30 bikes and rode tubeless for a few years on the mtb. I’ve stopped using tubeless around 10 years ago and I still rarely flat. I love the simplicity of tubes and I know what tire pressures I can get away with. Tubeless adds maintenance and complications that do not improve my riding experience.
Excellent Charles, thank you. I am on your side here. The issue can be quite polarizing and evidence is generally antidotal at best. I will keep my tubes!
Agree with all your comments and have experienced all of it. I have been a roadie now for 35 years and always up for latest and greatest. Opposing argument, with the new TPU, and Cycplus , I can change to new TPU under 5 mins with ease. You just know what to expect when you lose pressure with TPU. (With the new Cycplus pro and adapter, its self inflating to the absolute pressure).
Most Home mechanics,
if you are working, have kids etc maintaining other peoples bile, having multiple bikes, sealant is a full time job.
I went back from tubeless after a year in 2020.
especialy in Quebec where your bikes have to go throw winter not moving.
I do latex and TPU depending on the bike.
For dried up sealant, I find natural rubber eraser to work the best. No harsh chemicals needed, just a bit of elbow grease and presto, dried up sealant gone
nice! good to know
Still doesn't fit the argument for me about you can just swap the tube and get ready to go in less than 10 minutes instead I have something to use elbow grease get that dry sea went up and then go through the whole sealing process again
I completely agree with you. I’ve been using tippy tubes for a couple of months now, both of my gravel and road bikes, and so far no flats and beautiful feeling when riding them.
Many keep thinking tubeless tires help you seal it nicely. But you guys need to think it properly, they are times the nail might just 5-10mm long that narrowly punctured your tires and sealed... But if there is a tube in it, it might not puncture too because the nail is not long enough to actually damage the tube. You get what i mean. Many tubeless fanboy might think the sealant helping to seal, but they forgotten tubeless tires has nothing in it, any small nail or anything cut through will cause a hole and leaked. But when they is a big hole on tubeless, you'll need a tube to save you.
I tried Ridenow, and liked them because they were compact and light. However, the orange version broke at the junction of the plastic valve stem and the valve that threads into the stem, which is something others have complained about. I had inflated to just over 100PSI to seat the tire as straight has possible and then noticed a slow leak and then complete failure. Fortunately it was not on the road. I tried another brand with a metal valve stem, but does not fit my track pump which has a threaded chuck, very well and leaks. It works with my frame pump. Hopefully as TPU replaces butyl, all of these problems will worked out. For now, I've gone back to latex, which I love for its plush, bouncy ride, but needs to be re-inflated every 2 or 3 days or so.
One thing I agree with is that tubeless doesn't make much sense anymore because it is also too difficult for manufacturers to precisely manufacture rims and tires so that the interface fits exactly, across so many different brands of products, in addition to sealing up holes for spokes or making the bed without holes. Only way tubeless would make sense is if they worked like car tires, without need for sealant or tape.
I've never converted to tubeless because it just seemed like a lot of work. Your video has confirmed this. Lots of people in comments agree with you also. Excellent video!
thanks man!
For road, for me, the time calculous of tubeless doesn't add up. Game changer for off road.
At around 7,000 mile per year on 28 or 30mm road tires I've been getting around 3 flats per year. It takes around 5 minutes to change a tube. So my time investment for tubed tires is about 15 minutes per year. Say I don't get any flats on tubeless I still have to change the tires at least two times for tire wear as well as the initial setup. That extra time investment is much more than 15 minutes not to mention top up and cleaning out old sealant.
same.. went tubeless and then went tpu tube never looked back.. game changer
exactly!!!!!!
Thanks. One thing You've missed (not a first hand experience, reported by other cyclist UA-camrs): in case of high pressures of road tires even a small hole might not seal since the high pressure differential will continue pushing on a slightly plugged hole until your tire loses significant amount of initial pressure.
Regular tubes on road bikes has made a huge boost in simplicity and quick repair. Traveling. Minor maintenance. So easy. Not doing back to tables for road.
I'm a tubeless fan, just not on my road bike. It's a lot heavier, it's not faster, it's more expensive and there's more maintenance. Tyre pressure is a moot point, I can easily go as low as I need to with tubes.
If you puncture a lot then maybe tubeless is the better option, other than that I don't see what the benefits are.
I have never tried tubeless and i'm sure i'm gonna hate it.
The best thing for me is riding with latex tubes and having a TPU tube in my saddle bag.
I found that latex tubes are more confortable to ride than TPU tubes.
For Road, I'm with you. Too much faff. Cheers.
let's go!
Nice video! One point I think you missed, don't know if you had the experience when changing over to clinchers... maybe it was my particular rims and tires.
When I started riding my new bike I went tubeless, mostly because new bike, new tech as I've always used clinchers with tubes or tubulars before. It worked great for a year and even topped off sealant partway through that lifespan, right up until my first flat which the sealant didn't seal, so it was a walk back to my shop to put in a tube... where I discovered that tubeless tires full of sealant are incredibly difficult to pry out of the hooks of a tubeless-ready rim... they were extremely well-glued to the tight rim hooks, more than any tubular tire I ever used. Had to use channel locks to get enough tire bead dislodged to remove them. Eventually got new clincher-ready tires and RideNows, and will not do tubeless again
Thanks for sharing man! Very interrested
TPU tubes are a nightmare. I bought expensive Pirellis and went through three of them in a single race. It was only after switching to a regular tube that I could keep riding. In two months, I burned through five TPU tubes. For the next race, I used tubeless sealant, and I had zero issues. Admittedly, for daily rides, I've switched back to regular tubes. TPU tubes, even from Pirelli, are a nightmare. And, of course, I’m talking about gravel riding. ;)
I did not experience the same with Ridenow TPU tubes. Had 0 problems with them.
This video wan't for gravel ;)
But yeah I'd never run tubes for off road. You need to much PSI so your wheels become slippery and don't have lot's of control off road. If you run lower PSI, the risk of pinch flat is too high.
The Pirelli and Tubolito tpu tubes aren't the best and are seriously overpriced.
I'd recommend the latest RideNow ones (with the clear looking valve stem) or don't bother at all imho.
Agreed. Tubeless on road is not worth it. I've done it on my road bikes and thought it was the way to go, but everything you mentioned is on point. A couple of times the sealant didn't seal. I either had to use a plug or put in a tube. The mess was not worth the hassle. And not to mention i don't ride my road bikes much and the sealant tends to dry up and i have to make sure to check and top off. Also when I do get a chance to ride more I always had to check the tire pressure before a ride. Went back to tubes because the wheelset I picked up was the 1st gen Roval CLX and not tubeless compatible. Yup not going back to tubeless on my road bikes in the future. No need. However my MTB's will always be tubeless. Tubeless in my opinion works better at lower PSI and big tires.
Almost finished my first full year of tubeless on 700-30 road and 700-38 gravel and at 5500 miles and rising till December flat free and mess free while running high performance tires
As a non racer I will never run road tubeless. I get a flat once every...4-5 years or so. So what's the point? I'm even thinking of going back to tubes on my gravel bike. Having to maintain the sealant is a total pain. I don't wear out a set of tires every year so I have to take the tires off and clean out the sealant. Huge mess and terrible waste of time. Now if I was racing or riding more aggressively and flatting would be more regular then sure it makes sense.
100% d'accord avec toi, j'étais un des premiers avec du tubeless v'la 5-6 ans avec le setp-up mavic et je n'ai pas eu de succès. Je suis passé au tpu et c'est parfait, mon mtb et mon fat sont tubeless mais tellement moins de pression. Je crois que c,est aussi parfait pour le gravel. J'ai commandé des TPU Cyclami sur Aliexpress 24$ pour 4 avec valves 85mm.
When I purchased a new road bike that came tubeless compatible, including the initial sealant, I told the LBS not to set it up tubeless. There were too many reports of hassle including the mentioned on-going maintenance. Finally when I read the recommendation to always carry at least one inner tube, just-in-case, I couldn't see the point. As mentioned here I use TPU tubes (RideNow) including as my spares which allows my frame storage to be maximized. This has been a good decision a couple of years on.
Road and MTB tubeless are completely appart by a whole cliff, I recon tubeless sucks in Road because how the pressure release makes it basically useless, but in non red bull-like MTB and bikepacking it is a charm, I've forgotten my pump, patches & tubes for a loooong time.
Thanks, Charles, it's rare to hear about the negatives of tubeless; or that you can use tubes inside tubeless wheels n tires.
As an auto-mechanic of 40+ yrs, I've learned to avoid mess whenever possible, someone has to clean it up, ...and by the side of the road, no thank you!
Frozen sealant, I hadn't thought of that before, but perhaps that's just my location! 🤔 🙃
I did not talked about tubeless plugs in this video because I've never really had a successful plug emergency repair. A few on the gravel, not on the road. I always ended up needing a tube :)
wtf , i ride 30k a year , with 3 bikes , gp5000 , i have in last 2 years not have to put in 1 inner tube . and i live in belgium .
just ride 4bar , when you have a puncture , put in a dynaplug and go , its 30sec of work .
if the sealent is dry and gone, you just have to pump it more , still no flats 🤣 put in the sealent ( syringe ) and go again , if you run bontrager wheels , you can just use a normal pump .
Dyna plugs changed my life. A bit costly, so I get why people may not go that route.
I had to do that for the first time this year. Cheap plugs and applicators suck to work with, spend the money on good ones.
@@CharlesOuimet Dynaplugs are the best. I’ve used 3 in the last year. They’re so convenient and easy. I find the dynaplugs can stay in the tire till its time to replace them.
All my road plug repairs have been successful. I use effeto mariposa bacon/plug. And actually, using tubes for tubeless setup is not a good idea, as there is a high chance of it failing. Also, curious what sealant you are using. I hope not stans. Stans suck. I use vittoria. But I think all the points you raised are valid. It's just that for me, I get the reward with all the hassle, because tubeless always works for my road setup, but I never run less than 30c at 55-58 psi, because low pressure is key to success in road tubeless.
Tubes are easy. Zero maintenance. TPU tubes are light enough to carry a spare.
I hear ya, just the sealant maintenance was a turn off for me since I have had 1 puncture in the last decade.
exactly!
Hey Charles, love your videos! I'm 67 and have been using and still use butyle tubes all my life. I now use lightweight butyle tubes. I know how to fix them out on the road, well I just use the spare I carry, and I have a patch kit just in case, never had to use this though. I ride gravel and road, and I have confidence in my set up. But, I think I'll take your advise and carry TPU in my saddlebag as spare.
With the size saving, you can now carry TWO TPU tubes for less space and weight than one butyl. Life-saver!
I've been using TPU tubes in my 50 year old road bike that I bought new. Patches are less practical on the road than with butyl because of a need for longer cure time, but I carry 2 spares in less space than one butyl tube.
Bravo Charles pour cette analyse très complète et pertinente des tubuless! Mon vélo récent venait avec des tubuless mais à la fin de l'été, je suis revenu aux tubes. Juste le fait que la valve restait coincée et rendait le gonflage quasi impossible. En plus, devoir en rajouter chaque saison m'a fait revenir aux tubes. J'avais aussi la hantise de devoir réparer au bord de la route avec le mess du scellant. En revanche, pour les TPU, je n'ai pas eu de bonnes expériences. 3 tubes de suite avec perforations sans même avoir roulé et pourtant j'avais bien inspecté les jantes et le pneu. Je n'ai jamais réussi à réparer avec la patch fourni avec les tpu. Pour le 4e tpu, j'ai constamment à gonfler pour compenser la perte d'air après 2-3 jours. Ridenow la marque.
I run TPU tubes, used to use rubber tubes, with Mr Tuffy's. I have not had a flat in over 20 years. I ride 25000 Km a year.
I've had similar experiences (frame sprayed with sealant, impossible tire installs etc) and also have gone to tpu tubes on my road bike. Thinking my next gravel bike will have them too. Nearly tubeless performance without the hassle. I haven’t found them nearly as cheap as you say, but still think they are worth it.
I love running tubeless on my mountain bike but prefer tpu tubes on my road bike. When I get a gravel bike, I'll prob run tubeless with large gravel tires.
I'm surprised you went straight from sealant failing to seal a puncture to putting a tube inside without considering plugging the puncture. I carry Dynaplug with me and when the sealant fails to seal the puncture immediately, I plug it. Out of the dozen or so punctures I have had since going road tubeless, all except the last one were successfully sealed by sealant (Silca/Orange Seal). The one that the sealant could not seal, I used a Dynaplug. I do agree with some of your other arguments that sealant maintenance, the challenge with mounting/seating some rims/tires combinations, and sealant permanently staining your cycling kit can be dealbreaker for some. The ability to run lower tire pressure and not having to stop by the ride of the road to replace a tube to fix a puncture - and yes getting my hands dirty while doing that - are more than enough reasons for me to stick with tubeless, in spite of the cons.
I've been using tubeless sealant since 2018. Stan's was crap on high-pressure road bike tires. Works like a charm on fatbike tires. But even on the road bike it always got me home.
Switched to Silca 3 years ago. 2 years on Schwalbe Pro One's, never got a flat (probably did but sealed so quick). This April, i switched to GP 5000 STRs, I got a flat (don't know when) but realized my downtube was covered in latex (conclusion I must have got a puncture). Didn't notice my tire pressure droping 1 psi in 2 years using Silca Ultimate sealant. Nuff said.
BTW I do roughly 10,000 kms per year, and I don't carry a spare tube.
Lucky you!
Do you ride below zero?
@JeanFrancoisDesrosiers yes, even -20 C ... on the fatbike Stan's sealant says it works upto -20 F!
1 winter when I had tubes on my fat bike, I got 4 flats! I needed a better solution.
@@CharlesOuimet I never had sealant freeze on me. Maybe in the future I'd consider TPU, but not in the winter
@CharlesOuimet you jinxed me, man! I went out today and got my first flat in 3 years!
I went on vacation in October and haven't toped off my sealant since August 31. Even without sealant I was able to make it home... 😀 I had to stop every 5 or 6 kms to pump up the tire.
fully agree tubeless, for road makes no sense
I agree on everything you said IF you'r talking about road bikes. But I see things differently on MTB.
I have put nearly 6,000 km on a pair of SILCA latex tubes. I’ve been able to ride without getting any puncture since April!! I’m never going to be a candidate for tubeless on my road bike, so completely agree with this video.
heck yes!!! I never tried latex. Why that over TPU?
@@CharlesOuimet
Better rolling resistance. I personally use a latex inner tube on road, TPU saddlebag.
Gravel i use tubeless
Yeah I stopped using tubeless sealant last year, just put tpu tubes inside the tubeless tyres that have tread left - then I'll use regular clinchers with tpu tubes.
I will stay with tubeless for my mountain bikes, I think it's worth the setup hassle and carry a couple of tpu tubes as spares just incase.
Just wanted to leave my experience with RideNow TPU tubes: Not sure if I got a bad batch or if there's a larger QC problem at play, however, I have had 3 tubes this year develop leaks large enough that I thought I had a puncture. However after removing the tube and inspecting (btw water immersion is like the only way to find punctures with these things) for punctures I found that a line or a couple of lines running around 3 inches long had many tiny holes as if the tube material was just too thin in that particular area. These were the RN gravel tubes on 4Oc tires, so well within the range specified. Never going tubeless however, for the reasons you stated, too much hassle, maintenance and most importantly I NEED to have a clean bike, always.
I run tubeless for road and gravel and I carry the proper size RideNow TPU as spares. As they are my last resort if all else fails - sealant, Dynaplug - I hope they won't leak when I do need them! I have heard of a few leaky RideNow TPUs from my teammates.
interresting! I never tried the RideNow on the gravel. Maybe a bad batch indeed.
Absolute bliss on the road-size version for me
In clean tires I've had no problems. I had same problem as you when using one in an old tire that had a little dust and debris in it. Wore a tiny hole in it. The supplied patches haven't worked well for me either. Fine at home but riding seems to loosen them. I see my tpu tubes as 1 puncture and done til I find better patches.
Agree about hookless but ill never go back to tubes. I carry one CushCore MTB tyre lever on my road bike that has a handle to make tyre removal easy. Lower pressures mean more comfort PLUS more speed due to lower rolling resistance. Orange sealant peels off easily from tyre and frame. One puncture in 5 years which sealed up without stopping because i only weight 62kg. Run 3.7 - 4.7 Bar.
Je suis d'accord avec toi, par contre, pour le MTB ou la gravel ça reste une bonne option. Pour le vélo de route je suis venu à la même conclusion que toi!
So, my use case is slightly different, but I ran tubeless for years on my CX bike, and I climbed Mont-Royal (up Olmstead) twice a day 2-3 times a week even in the winter. I never had an issue with the sealant in the cold; they were more reliable than butyl tubes for sure. In the last couple of years before I left Montreal, I was using tubeless in conjunction with (Rimpact) foam inserts, and they're a really good compromise to running tubulars--I could still go down to ~20PSI without worrying about flats and get amazing grip. This is possibly more like mountain biking rather than road, though.
But when I moved to BC, I kept using that CX bike as an all-road/gravel bike, and the setup still works really well.
But if I were a pure roadie? Yeah, TPU tubes are probably the right option. There's no point to messing with all this stuff if you don't need to run super low pressures and pinch-flats aren't your top concern.
exactly! Was talking excusively about road cycling here. Anything off-road, tubeless is the way to go
Gave up on Tubeless after 2 years and half. It was costing too much
yes!
Maintaining your bike shouldn’t be complicated but yet the cycling industry continues doing it. There was a time cycling was a poor man’s hobby and simple
Would expect tubeless to become more popular with roadbikes as tires are getting wider and wider and pressures going down.
Also never had any problem seating the the tire with a normal pump as long as you remove the valve core first on the initial seating.
The bike industry is selling us things we don’t need.
5:00 it will also spew all over the person riding behind the jerkoff who's riding road-tubless, and into his face... which is what happened to me.
boy was i pissed
ahahaha the worst!!!!
Was changing tires and reused the TPU tube. No problems but the TPU tube looks all stretched and “beat up”, but they still working fine with the new tires. Just a little concerned with how the TPU tube looked.
Other than the extreme cold weather & weight with tpu, none of those points have merit On tpu tubes I would get at least 3 punctures a month. Silca sealant is amazing! I've had 1 cut I had to plug in the last year (large chunk of glass) mostly I realize I had a puncture after I'm home. Plugs are your friend (I didn't even lose half the air). I always carry a pump & backup tube. Every wheel & tire manufacturer has compatibility charts now. I ride a tubless clincher wheelset. I find tubless looses less air than tpu(maybe it's the good sealant). I'm over 200 lbs & have never had a tire burp! I seat tires with a regular track pump (high flow valves are your friend)I use the reserve fillmore valves & the new muc off ones are interesting. I guess I feel not having to ever pull a tire off on the side of the road has been amazing & I've not had that experience with tubes.
Tubeless doesn’t work as well on road bikes
Totally Agree. Used sealant on my road bike running 100psi in the tyres and sealant never worked. Plugs lasted only a few miles and i then ran out of CO2 canisters. I did carry a spare inner tube but getting it in the tyre was nigh on impossible without pinching the tube.
I have been riding and doing my own maintenance for over 30 years. Going back to standard tyres and tubes was bliss and I ride in the knowledge that I can always get home with the aid or a new tube or patch. No more Uber rides home! Tubeless has it's place, but on high pressure road tyres(over 90psi) I'd say it is stretching the technology too far.
Well said mate!
100psi? What tubeless setup are you running that you need 100psi in it? And I could be wrong, but that "recommended max" is 80 something if I remember correct. I'm 6'2 - 240 and run 80-85ish psi on 28mm tires.
@ 6’2 also but nearer 300lbs running IRC Roadlites 25mm at 95psi. If wider tyres fitted in my frame I’d go to 28mm and run under 80psi.
@@bockersjv It still sounds like you're dangerously over inflating for tubeless. I doubt there is a sealant in the world that would work reliably under that pressure. I personally would look into making changes in the setup you're riding. Stay safe and happy riding.
Dangerous? What are you talking about. The recommended pressure is 116psi. Regardless of the danger i agree sealant will never work, that’s why i don’t use it anymore and have gone back to hassle free tubes.
Glad it works for you.
3:27 Its also annoying when you refill the sealant every six months, but you live in Norway and it hasn’t dried at all so you just fill the tire with even more sealant. 😮
exacly!
Rim for road, disc for gravel.
Tubes for road, tubless for gravel.
Bonjour/hi Charles, I was hoping you would discuss TPU vs latex tubes. Really good vid, thanks!
Unfortunately I've never tried latex! So I can't speak much about it. I only heard about the air deflating every 24 hours, which is annoying. But I'll give it a try!
@@CharlesOuimet To be clear, I rode only latex/tubulars for 40 years, then switched to butyl/clinchers 5 years ago bc I was fed up with spending my evenings repairing tubulars, messing with glue, etc. I enjoy riding more now that I have bomb-proof wheels and tires, with no flats in 5 years. I'm going to try latex and TPU, with lighter clinchers next season. BTW, you're right about latex, which loses ~20psi/day, so pros sometimes inflate with Nitrogen which is a bigger molecule than air. Latex is lighter, more puncture-resistant, and has lower rolling resistance than butyl. I might roll in 2025 on latex and carry TPU spares, or something like that.
Tubes for the win! IYKYK.
For a mountain bike it is a must. Road I guess it does not matter
Agree with everything you said but I like latex tubes, myself. they seem to have a small bit of "self-sealing" due to how soft the latex is. I have picked up a small object that got thrown out of the tire and I was able to ride the 40 miles back home without stopping. I ride tubeless on MTB but not on road.
Thanks!! Good to know
TPU or Latex > tubless
I think I could get on board with getting away from tubeless in only one scenario. If I had an extra wheel-set that was only used for special occasions like climbing. If wheels sit to long then you lose pressure and have the sealant dry up. So then what is the point of all those benefits. However I run a set of 50mm wheels on my road bike and for the most part have no problems. I do on occassion fill up my tires with more sealant usually twice a year. I have very few punctures on the road and this may be because I replace my tires twice a year.
That settles it, I ain't going tubeless on my road bike. Currently riding Slime in my tubes. It has definitely reduced the number of times I've had to change a tube. There's little or no mess. I buy tubes with removable valve cores and use a Stan's injector. The best way to minimize flats is to keep fresh tires on your bike. This is way cheaper to do if you buy non-tubeless tires.
thats it!!!
@@CharlesOuimet Cheers!
FINALLY the truth. 100% agree.
Sealant comes right off the frame by rubbing it. Easy peasy. You don't need a compressor. I use a 30-year old hardware store pump with no issues.
Good for you. Just note that your experience is not the universal experience. I have zero issues running tubeless, and I don't see any way that an inner tube, be it butyl, latex, or TPU, would be an improvement for me. I spent decades running inner tubes with clincher tires, and I have zero interest or see zero benefit in going back. As for messes setting up tubeless? Maybe review your technique. I don't have mess when I do that.
it's great, or the worst thing in the world ahah
Gees tubeless what a nightmare 🤣 glad I’m old school and running inner tubes 😊
How do you protect your feet during those freezing temperatures?
Merino wool socks + Neoprene shoe covers will do the trick between 10 and 0 degrees with road shoes.
Under 0, I have SPD fat bike boots
Under -15, I will have heating socks with the fat bike boots!
I got sprayed on with sealant when my friend got a puncture😂
Charles, I am curious what sealant you were using that you could not clean off your bike. I had Silca and Orange Seal sealant sprayed onto my bike and I have not encountered any difficulty removing from non-porous surface like bike frames/components. Now if we're talking about porous things like our expensive cycling kits, that's a different story 🤣
The sealant that stuck to the frame was Muc-off!
Stan's and Orange Seal was a better sealant, but still annoying to use ahahah!!
@@CharlesOuimet I guess that another Muc Off product to stay away from. I know you have moved away from tubeless but if you ever have to apply tubeless rim tape, avoid Muc Off tubeless rim tape at all cost. The Muc Off rim tape leaves behind a lot of sticky residue that is very difficult to clean up when the tape is removed.
"Here in my garage." That's a UA-cam classic.
Always leaving little easter eggs ahahaahha
Another bike industry marketing scam.
I ride Mtn bikes and never went tubeless. TPU tubes are much better and add some inserts then you have maybe a 1% chance of the setup failing and ending a ride.
don't now what you do wrong but i am a bike machanic apart from the 2-3 times in the begining i never have problems using conti tyeres and mucoff and silca sealant
Which road tires? I mean a 32mm tire is going to be a very different tubeless experience than 23mm tires. There is an enormous pressure difference.
A lot of the problems you mention come from the sealant, not from the tubeless technology itself. What about running tubeless tires without sealant? You still get the benefit of removing pinch flats from the equation. Motorbikes and cars are running tubeless tires without sealant by the way
What would be great is to have 2 valves. One to inflate the tubeless tire. And one to inflate an uninflated TPU tube in case of a puncture. So you wouldn't have to remove the wheel and tire in case of a puncture
Tubeless is not perfect, need a lot of maintenance but can be efficient. I had really bad experience with TUP. Maybe bad luck. I'm waiting for them to get better, as the tubeless are better now than they were before.
Are there dedicated clincher non tubeless performance road tyres that needs an inner tube? Most tyres are tubeless compatible and that's where problem starts. Schwalbe One and Schwalbe G-One Speed on Zipp 30 Course or Prime Carbon wheels, you will struggle to get an inner tube in modern tyres now. If you mange to get it in without pinching the inner tube, then you got to struggle getting the tyre on.
Pirelli and Continental still have two version of their fastest road tires. I now always go for the clincher tire because it's lighter and easier to mount.
The GP5000 TLR was literally the worst tirer ever when it came to mounting on a rim. RIP my hands and fingers.
I can send You all of my tubes from the past, you can use them and change them every with ride on the side of the road. After three years with TL on road bike I can only notice a puncture after some drops on the seat tube. And remove them with my finger :D
you got lucky my friend!!
i have switched to TPU tubes since last season in 2023, from cyclami as a rule i will change the tubes for new ones when i switch to a new set of tires have only had one flat during the time i have had the TPU tubes that what due to a sliver of metal , i run 100 psi on the same roads that Charles rides and believe me they are not good, have ridden 4800km with the tubes now on the bike with 28mm continental 5000's tires are still ok , out door season is at a close for myself will be switching to indoor on the trainer , probably will start the 2025 season with the same tires and tubes then switch to a new set for the summer
you should try to run slighly lower pressure! More comfortable and less chance of slicing the tire
@@CharlesOuimet possible que j 'essai de rouler avec moins de pression ce me donne le impression que j'ai un perte de pression en route de avoir un crevasion ,presentment je roule avec des conti 5000 S TR , avec TPU, ce que je trouve avec les conti , rendu au 2000-2500km je les switch fornt to back, raison je trouve que les sidewall devient soft, aussi le usure , que je trouve denierment est que meme avec le 100psi les pneu me donne le sensation de etre molle un peut comme si je roulais avec un pression plus bas, rendu au nouveau saison je vais essaier de rouler avec moins de pression , un habitude assez dure a changer a 66ans bientot pas facile comme arreter de aller apres des KOM sur strava les il me reste encore un peut energie surtout sur les distance , je te donnerais des nouvelles en 2025 , esperant que mon epellation et gramar est pas pire, eric
MTB = 1,000% use tubeless (I would go as far as saying it's required to ride Bromont even as a noob lol)
Roadies = Tubes and reasonable pressures, even on QC roads. I mean even if you go tubeless you need to carry a tube for emergencies anyway so...
I invested in a shop inflator, wheel stand etc so I have the tools to make the tubeless job "easier" but the juice just isn't worth the squeeze with roadies.
What is so terrible about a simple lightweight butyl tube? Most of the TPU tubes I see have fragile valve stems, a no-go for me. Pinch flats are not much of an issue for me with simple butyl tubes so I see no need to change what's worked for decades.
Goat heads. If you ride where there are a lot of goat heads. They migrate onto the road, especially the shoulder where most people ride. They have thin, super hard thorns. Seal up great with sealant but will absolutely go through your tire and tube and flat you. They lay on the road by the hundreds and thousands. You’ll flat over and over on tubes alone
Tubeless tires on road bikes is the same industry scam like disc brakes !
There is a plug from Stan’s I could not recommend enough the so called dart is a game changer
The sealant part SILCA has a “refresher” substance that reanimates the sealant
Wile the SILCA stuff is reliable if it comes to height pressure tire
Also and run tubeless on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years now and never need an air compressor
Also I never see a hooked rim burp a tire 🙈🙊🙉but may be
Also the compatibility stuff is all a hookless(nonsense )problem
Ps I run tubeless on my road and Tri bikes for 7 years and never need a compressor
The burping and compatibility problems is purely a hookless problem…(and I would never buy one of those non.ense rims )
I'm mechanically disabled, but was able to switch to tubeless just as easily as using tubes. One secret is going with the filmore valves for easy floor pump mounting. As for dealing with sealant. I do mine outside and use a hose to wash it into my lawn. Easy peasy.