The Evolution of Futhorc
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- Опубліковано 18 вер 2024
- Here's a sloppy list of sources (I might add page numbers one day):
* An Introduction to English Runes by Raymond Page
* Runes Around the North Sea by Tineke Looijenga
* Texts and Contents of the Oldest Runic Inscriptions by Tineke Looijenga
* The Yew Rune, Yogh and Yew by Bernard Mees
* NEW LIGHT ON LITERACY IN EIGHTH-CENTURY EAST ANGLIA: A RUNIC INSCRIPTION FROM BACONSTHORPE, NORFOLK by John Hines
* The Runic Frisian vowel system: the earliest history of Frisian and Proto-Insular North Frisian by Arjen Versloot
Commentary:
* 5:00 I mean supposedly according to some popular readings, not according to settled consensus.
* 6:40 I didn't mean to imply [z] wasn't around as an allophone of /s/.
It's cool to see how the rune shapes become something else over time.
6:16 Interesting thing about Ear ᛠ. “Heard” used to be the way they said “hard”. So one could say that the English also had a similar sound development to the frisians in some cases
þank you
Did the elder futhark have ᛡ for an /a/ type sound and then it disappeared and then reappeared as an /i:/ sound (maybe as a bind of ᛁᚷ)?
I think ᛡ only ended up as an /a/ type rune among Proto-Norse speakers.
Among Anglo-Frisian speakers, ᛡ remained a /j/ type rune.
Thank you for explaining the process by which the rune row changed so clearly. It's amazing how many people seem to be under the mistaken impression that they just changed overnight at some point. I like your theory for the origin of the shape of ᛠ. Given how ᚣ places ᛁ inside ᚢ, I had wondered if ᛠ might have been ᛁ broken on top of it itself, but your idea is much more rational.
Thanks for yer comment, lol.
As for the origin of ᛠ, I'm just passing along a theory I read in some book or article. I forget which.
ᛣᚢᛚ᛫ᛒᛠᚾᛋ
ᛡᚫᚫᚫᛋ
Thanx for video😊
Yer welcome. 🦭
When ᛇ began to be associated with /ç/, wasn’t ᚻ already a valid rune for that sound?
I don't think there's consensus on when ᛇ was first associated with [ç].
ᚻ was a valid rune for [ç], but since ᚻ handled [h], [x], and [ç], and since ᛇ was totally redundant, I guess it felt right to take [x] and [ç] from ᚻ and give them to ᛇ.
I just discovered that Orm used "ȝȝ" to represent /i/ but "ȝȝh" to represent /ɣ/. Might that lend weight to your idea about how the sound of ᛇ changed?
I'm not sure people were still very familiar with Futhorc in the 1100s, so I wouldn't be quick to link spelling conventions in the 1100s to Futhorc. I haven't heard about Orm using ȝȝ to stand for /i/. What's that from?
@@Hurlebatte I thought I already replied to this but it seems YT deleted my response, possibly because I included a link to the source you requested. The information can be found on page 197 of "The Stories of English" (2004) by David Crystal.
To again correct what I said last month, Orm used "ȝȝ" for [i] but "ȝh" for [ɣ] (not "ȝȝh").
In regards to your query, though you're right that by that time runes weren't generally being taught in England anymore, Orm's very name is an Old Norse name. Again, the part of England he lived in had what might be called a degree of affinity to the Danelaw. So given that Younger Futhark was still in use in Orm's day, and Futhorc had only comparatively recently fallen out of use, would it really be too grant a stretch to suppose that he had some awareness of runes? Does it not seem a little coincidental that he used ȝ in relation to 2 of the sounds associated with ᛇ?
"The information can be found on page 197 of The Stories of English"
Can you quote the book and give an example of a word where ȝȝ stands for [i]?
"Does it not seem a little coincidental"
Well, ȝ stood for [ɣ] and /j/ since ȝ was a "G letter" and those were "G sounds". If Orm really did use ȝȝ to stand for /i/ my bet would be that the /i/ value was an extension of the /j/ value.
@@Hurlebatte That would make sense as the word is "maȝȝ".
The book says:
"The dominating graphic feature of the opening lines of the _Orrmulum_ is the use of double consonants marking short vowels. These lines also contain examples of some of Orrm's other spelling conventions. He was particularly careful to distinguish the different kinds of sound represented by _ȝ_ in Old English:
- _ȝ_ shows that the sound is [j], as in _yet_ , written _ȝé́t_ ;
- _ȝȝ_ shows that it is an [i] sound at the end of a diphthong, as in _may_ , written _maȝȝ_ ;
- _ȝh_ shows that it is a type of consonant sound, a voiced velar fricative [ɣ], as in _hallȝhe_ 'holy'.
The double acute accent on _ȝé́t_ is interesting, as it gives a hint of Orrm's reasoning."
Shall I continue?
Yeah that's an extension of G in Old English making /j/.