Should Women be in Leadership?
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Jon explores what the Bible teaches about women in positions of leadership, explains the reason the Bible limits most leadership roles to men, and applies this knowledge to current situations including women speaking at conferences and arguing on social media.
#womeninleadership #conservativewomen #womenpreacher
I have seen the Presbyterian denominations of my childhood and young adulthood fully embrace women in leadership and at the pulpit on Sundays. Even the more conservative offshoots that splintered from PCUSA and PCA who claimed Timothy Keller as their own would allow women pastors to give Sunday sermons. When pressed, Timothy Keller would state the Biblical position of having roles of leadership reserved for men, but he never pressed that point with the adoring fans. When women lead men, it is subverted order. It is a perverted order, as much as same-sex unions upend what has been set in place. I believe it was the embrace of female leadership in the church that ushered in all the other abominations.
The Bible can't be clearer about this. Those in rebellion against Scripture heap so much conjectural context to make meaning meaningless. One novel argument raised by some YouTubing ladies: There was a temple of Artemis in one of the cities and the apostle Paul was reacting to its influence, not intending the prohibition to be universal. What? Blasphemy.
Yeah the Artemis argument requires you to make a lot of assumptions based on things the Bible doesn’t say. It’s pretty clear that a woman is not to teach a man.
@@Cletus_the_Elder all this rubbish of you can't understand I Corinthians 14:34, 1 Timothy 2:12 unless you have the specialized knowledge of a seminary professor😵💫
@@Cletus_the_Elder and when the seminary professors with an agenda make their historical assertions you can't assume they are telling the truth even about history anyway
@@Cletus_the_Elder when the Bible supplies its own exegesis as it does in I Corinthians 14, I Timothy 2 it is completely illegitimate to cast that aside to import an alternative exegesis not found in the text
Polite leader has some good videos on women in history. Ugh it’s sad to say the least. I highly recommend watching them.
I've been watching these they are very interesting
Been watching them every time they come out. It’s a good series.
I agree with what you said, Jon. Women in these rolls of leadership in culture and society seems to be a judgment, and a sign of something out of line with God’s design.
On the women’s Bible studies, a friend and I have recently discussed whether they are/have been advantageous. Sadly, we think not. Specifically not those written by women. One on one discipleship or life-on-life is something else (Titus 2). And, maybe we have come to that conclusion because we’ve observed them being extremely emotive & women using their faith as a means of launching a “career” that is acceptable, even lauded, within the church. It is an interesting paradigm, and fraught with pitfalls. Time will tell.
Spot on. BTW the cowboy hat is a good look.
Jon, I'm glad you expressed yourself on this important issue, but I couldn't help but think you were trying to sugar coat it a bit. Any Christian woman that bristles at anything you said needs to reevaluate her walk with God. "Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world". I've witnessed since the '70's that women want to rule the world. They've been dragging their goals into the church for a long time. Men struggle with ego. If you put down a man, he will quit and go fishing. Is that really what women want? Because guess what? That's what you're getting.
Happily married 40 years. Other than our 3 daughters, I do not know of ANY young woman suitable for marriage today. I encourage my son to remain MGTOW. If you look at the political opinions in all "developed" countries of the West, you will see a massive and widening divide between young men and women. Young men are becoming slightly more conservative, young women basically are insane. Consider that most young women say that if lost in a forest they would rather meet a random bear than a man. The hatred of men of that view is only exceeded by the stupidity and naivete about nature. I see every, EVERY Church I know of locally continue to promote grrrrrrrrrl power and "leadership skills" among young women and denigrate men. Even a man like Doug Wilson puts all the blame for whatever goes wrong on the husband. With friends like these, no wonder most men have to be dragged into Church and provided fake "male" entertainment.
Love it when godly men lead! 😊
Prayers today for your sweet family. Prayers for JD Hall, may God bless his new life, his family, his health. Thank you for the remebrance.
what is his "new life" ?
There have been so many bad female teachers that I’m now leaning toward having no ladies’ Bible studies unless they are directly under the authority of male leadership.
So the ladies will feel so comfortable with a man present while at times discussing personal female topics that might arise in the course of their study, right ?This type of "women's " Bible study would be limiting to personal interaction or sharing testimonies that women can relate to, because a man will be listening in. It reminds me of the same thing the left is doing to destroy women's spaces, except a Christian version of it. The Bible tells women to teach other women. They are not unlearned children that need to be babysat. I know many women with much more Bible knowledge than many men have, and there are usually more women that attend church than men. So, if a man gives an incorrect answer to a question in Sunday school such as, it was Moses who went to heaven in a chariot of fire, not Elijah ?! A woman can't gently correct him ? This is getting silly and somewhat misogynistic.
@@staceylaszlo6321
Readers are advised to remember that demons are liars. Not everything that
Boltglue says should be assumed to be true, even from his own perspective.
-S. Szpak
Make sure the females can only teach each other. The blind leading
the blind. Teach how it makes perfect sense for some in the inferior gender
to teach others in the inferior gender. Of course it's contradictory, but it will
work. Trust me. If a female can actually teach well, make sure she can't
teach the males. The males are superior, so it wouldn't make any sense anyway.
Give our truth, that a female teaching a male anything, is always a sin.
This will hinder the spread of knowledge and therefore weaken the males.
Teach, if you can get away with it, that a female should never even
speak to a male about anything in the Old or New Words or anything
spiritual for that matter. After all, if a female says something a male
didn't know, she would have taught him something. Teach that this
accidental sin is still a sin against the Liar. This will encourage a
fearful muteness in the females. They will fear the sin of teaching
a male. Let the male teach himself. If he is stupid, all the better.
-excerpt from a Boltglue Email
Church leadership is different than civil leadership.
They shouldn't be in civil leadership either.
Keep up the great discussions Jon! I also found that seminary students and grads think they are more wise than those of us who are mature and have taught Bible for years. No Humility!
I agree on Bible studies. Study scripture NOT Beth Moore or others!
Women ought not teach each other "theology proper." It Should come from male authority
Susan Heck is my favorite women's Bible in study teacher. Verse by verse, solid. Does not teach men. Priscilla Shirer is another one to mark and avoid.
I agree with what you said, Jon. Women in these rolls of leadership in culture and society seems to be a judgment, and a sign of something out of line with God’s design.
On the women’s Bible studies, a friend and I have recently discussed whether they are/have been advantageous. Sadly, we think not. Specifically those written by women. One on one discipleship or life-on-life is something else (Titus 2). And, maybe we have come to that conclusion because we’ve observed women using their faith as a means of launching a “career” that is acceptable, even lauded, within the church. It is an interesting paradigm, and fraught with pitfalls. Time will tell.
I agree. And it seems the women bible studies are often the cause of churches beginning to fall apart from gossip and or women becoming discontent to obey their husbands.
I do, very much agree with Jon. What I’ve found, however, is just the difference in amount of time available. I have been a wife and mother who homeschooled her children and now “works” very part time, so I do have a lot more time on my hands to read and study and also meet with women during the work day. My husband, however, works more than 40 hrs a week, (he’s a school principal) and just does not have the same time/energy to give to lead a small group study. I really do wish we could do that over me meeting with a few ladies, but 🤷🏻♀️.
Time is telling very quickly
I so agree with you on Megan Bashem.
She has the guts to do what Christian men should have done and didn't.
Nancy Pearcy has a fascinating take on this in her book The Toxic War on Masculinity. The change started around 1750.
6:19 Well actually men are more valuable than women according to Yahweh. Leviticus 27:1-8. Fifty shekels for a Male, 30 shekels for a Female.
This comment made my week!
I think this issue (like hundreds of others) illustrates the genius of Scripture -- how God goes just so far in his commands to prohibit things that will always be harmful for us (or require things that are always good), but he knows exactly where to stop so that other issues are matters of wisdom where there is moral freedom for different people to make different decisions in different situations. In other words, "his commandments are not burdensome" -- in his infinite wisdom God knows just how far to go so his people will not be put into impossible situations (and have the opportunity to accept one another and refrain from sinful judging, Rom. 14 etc.). The example I often use is spanking -- the Bible encourages and defends it as a wise practice in most cases, but it never says all parents everywhere must do it. This is so wise because there are some situations when it's not best (e. g. when a child has hemophilia, like a friend of ours, and could literally die if spanked; in cases of foster parenting and even adoption when the parents couldn't keep the child if they spanked; and when a parent has anger issues and is unable to do it in a proper loving way). On the other hand, if we are legalistic and say that God commands spanking for everyone, we will fall into the dangers I outline in my book Who Are You to Judge? (check it out). I think that the women's issue is similar -- God requires submission of them in marriage and in the church (two crucial areas of life that directly communicate about his nature), but he ingeniously does not make commands about other spheres of life because he knows that (as you explained) there are times when the best thing is for them to hold roles of authority in those other spheres. You may be right that in "normal situations" it would be ideal for men to fill most of those positions (that may be inferred from the narrative scriptures you mentioned), but to turn that inference into universal legislation is legalistic and harmful (again, check out my book:). www.amazon.com/Who-Are-You-Judge-Legalism/dp/B08YP9NQVS/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&dib_tag=AUTHOR&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.i_K6_Ef82ea48rrUHbK0Eh9u45fQ8_wgsLrWm1F4qPhFhuoqgcB0BR6xcBd_DfNxTPaKiuJ9aoK2kFNWQzwTPhdOS9-eAIXHWAgDJub6tx0ddFMUD2eA4A8k19GT1f1kQ2pWH4izlDQeo4_BMT3Hw9mem8o0P_iKFSz1njt2B3kkv7HklK3fYcRLMWs5t-dl.sueWYWu-aX3TbyQEArnwwzDAyvGy3Pxm16jfo8kpGbQ&qid=&sr=
I was thankful you talked about this as this has been on my mind for sometime. Specifically as a woman I struggle with 1 Timothy 2:11-12, in the context of coed Sunday school and small groups. I wonder if it’s proper for me to make comments at all or if I’m just being very legalistic about it. I’m looking forward to reading your book!
Leadership preferring women and excluding male leadership because of social credit is a good insight into the problem of the dearth of male leadership (and especially masculine male leadership) today. The other cause of the lack is that women simply occupy these public positions which lowers their value in men's eyes. So are men sinning here, or women? To say women are only acting as they are out of necessity due to men's sins is to justify female sin, a characteristic of weak male leadership.
Totally agree. typically in this conversation it is always blamed on men abdicating leadership. However, millions of women need to be willing to step aside… not sure that many are willing to do that
@@LeoRegum thank you so much for saying that. I am so sick and tired of the fact that conservative and woke Christians are united on justifying female sin
My father believe men should not practice gynecology, due to modesty reasons.
It is the nature of prophetic correction to come from the outside. It will be an extreme exception for a man with institutional power to potentially sacrifice it for the truth.
Agree with you.
Women having social media has not in anyway been a benefit to society
I have worked in law firms all my life as a lawyer. I never saw men subjected to discrimination even when DEI started rolling out. Men still being hired and representing clients. Law firms will take any lawyer who can do the work. The idea that the problems are due to women is ludicrous in light of the actual data across various industries. The industries are run by boards- more men than women. Make sure you have a working thesis.
"Never judge a "person" until you have walked a mile in their shoes". So you are saying the "actual data" doesn't show that there has been preferential admissions in college and preferential hiring by employers for the last 40 years!?! Please cite your "actual data".....
Most men in leadership lead like they're afraid of all the women in their lives leaving them. Let them leave and not let them leave with everything they think they'll be able to leave with.
I always wondered why Christian schools would accept women into their ministry schools in the first place??? Sad state we are in...But God. Thank you for standing strong on this, and many topics.
@@betty8173 because seminary culture is rotten. Seminaries are by and large institutions consumed with self-love and lust for money and prestige and not truly seeking to serve God's church
Good, thoughtful video, Jon. By the way, the regulative principle applies primarily (if not exclusively) to worship. Leadership by Elders implies applied wisdom to other aspects of life which are not specifically addressed in Scripture.
1 Timothy 2:11-15
They should not be dispatchers, HR, judges, governors, representatives, electors, voters, managers, C-suite, professors, police, soldiers, wardens, music lead in church ETC
@@cosmictreason2242 As a single woman, how may I earn a living?
@@americandropbear5081 Well, the Proverbs 31 woman is very industrious. It doesn't say you can't work (it says quite the contrary), only that you can't lead.
@@NJHProductions512 If you’re at a job long enough, you’re probably going to be in a position where you have to direct subordinates.
@@americandropbear5081 those kinds of jobs are not for you
No.
Lol, short answer, no. The last century and current century should disabuse anyone of that notion.
It's great to see that cat. I remember when you got her when she was little.
Hat looks good on you!
@@brianmiller3287 I need a ranch
Short answer: Nope...
I want to start a blog that would address things like feminism, etc., from a biblical point of view, and other Bible based concepts, but I think of it as "the older women teaching the younger" as in Titus.
I would hold off on that, UNLESS you can explain how a Judge
over Israel could be a man or a woman. God ruled Israel through
the Judges. They were the primary pastors/shepherds of God's
people at that time.
5:48 "they're intimidated by strong men and they seek to cancel them to control them to make sure that they don't actually become a real threat"
Immediately Kevin DeYoung and Doug Wilson popped into my mind
My own struggle to get a good job is part of this. Strength is a threat. Christian faith is a threat. Millennial men have been suppressed in the workforce and this has affected their social status and influence so we are not able to make change.
If it is not God’s design for women to rule, then can you really justify women’s suffrage?
Jon or anyone else who want to chime in: what about women leading a church's small group? There are capable men present but a women with a Seminary degree and PHD leads the small group discussion over the sermon. the question are provided by the pastor who preached that week. She is not a pastor and our Baptist Church agrees with 1 Timothy that women should not preach. However, outside the Gathering of the Saints on Sunday, does 1 Timothy 2-3 apply as do all the other texts on male headship?
There is no male headship. If such a thing existed then no
woman could judge men of premeditated murder. No woman
could teach the Law. Deborah as a Judge could do these things.
I wrote a free informal essay on her. Read time: 12 minutes
This is where you start. If your beliefs can't explain all this,
they are false.
1 Timothy 3:15
15 but in case I am delayed, I write so that you will know how one ought to conduct himself in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and support of the truth.
Women are not permitted to teach and exercise authority IN the household of God. Outside the household of God, women need to be humble and mindful of how they engage in the word of God.
Well stated, the Bible is clear about Church matters, as it is clear that:
1- men ought not cover their heads in Church, as most clergy that call themselves Christian do routinely (miters, kalimavkion etc)
2- if a woman does not wish to put something on her head as a visible sign of an internal reality (sacrament) that she is submissive to men, then she ought shave her head completely
Outside the Church, these do not apply.
🐈 your cat was upstageing you for about five minutes 😊
I think there is also an issue where a new “bold speaking christian woman” can grow a following much quicker on youtube and other platforms than a “bold speaking christian man”. I often find that men don’t care to support other men as much as women support women.
I believe St Paul’s admonition was not Pauls idea but a command of God!
I Cor. 14:37
Dry creek wrangler manifested.
Judging from the comments, I'm afraid to even click on this. Wow.
Women shouldn’t lead or be online. They should remain in their ethnic homelands and witness to their fellow village people. That will never not be the truth.
@@jackblack496Jesus never said that.
Short answer NO.
They should not be dispatchers, HR, judges, governors, representatives, electors, voters, managers, C-suite, professors, police, soldiers, wardens, ETC
Judges are not leaders, ergo Deborah. The leader was Barak who, like Barak was an bad cowardly leader.
@@JesusRodriguez-zy3wj this is poor logic. Deborah did not sit in the city gate, which is where official civil judgment takes place. It's also not the kind of judge we talk about today. She also explicitly was not given authority over the army but had to go tell a man to do it because God required it
this is trump´s maga lunatics, myzogists america, no thanks
@@cosmictreason2242 1- I thought I made it explicitly clear that Deborah did NOT lead; so we agree there. To add more to that fact that she was NOT a leader of men, contrary to egalitarians, we have Barak and not her mentioned in Hebrews 11
2- You've pointed out something very interesting I never noticed. She did NOT sit at the city gate just as you pointed out. Judges 4:4 Now Deborah, a [a]prophetess, the wife of Lappidoth, was judging Israel at that time. 5 She used to [b]sit under the palm tree of Deborah between Ramah and Bethel in the hill country of Ephraim; and the sons of Israel came up to her for judgment. 6 Now she sent and summoned Barak the son of Abinoam from Kedesh-naphtali, and said to him, “Behold [Has not the Lord commanded?], the Lord, the God of Israel, has commanded, ‘Go and march to Mount Tabor,...
Still she DID act as a judge over men, who came to her specifically for mišpāṭ. She likely acting not just as a judge in the manner of Judges (pun intended); but acting in a judicial capacity. I will admit this is not an absolute fact because but I will hold to the normal plain meaning of mišpāṭ as used throughout Scripture. All that said, I do not see the actions of a Judge as that of autonomous authority but of delegated authority. Judges are SUPPOSED to only administer the law that has been handed to them by the civil magistrate(s). That our current USA Judges often exceed this and "legislate from the bench" is part of the massive corruption not of how it is supposed to be. Thus I have no problem with a woman judge, so long as she acts as an administrator of the law. Just as many times in 40 years my wife has reminded me of my own words about how our household is supposed to run when I step out of my own set parameters. Those "laws" I decree in my household are OF COURSE to be within the bounds of Scripture as I best understand it.
Thank you for pointing out Deborah did not sit at the city gate. I think Scripture makes her subordinate status very clear by naming her husband, that she was a mother and that she did NOT command Barak or the armies but acted as a prophetess relaying the word of God. You've added to this that she did not sit at the gate which was more that just a judgement position, but one of legislating as well.
Off topic, barak is my favorite Hebrew word, it means to bend the knee and it is both a blessing and a curse depending on context. I think Barak's name was quite appropiate here on many levels. So also with the traitor also known as Barak. Because of our effeminate pastors, we deserve Barak.
@@cosmictreason2242If a woman becomes a widow at a young age, does she obey her father-in-law or her father? Looks like I found a conundrum.
well thought out, and well said!
I think Janet Mefferd was doing a great job with her radio show with part of her focus on fighting the good fight against the Marxist onslaught in the church. I was hoping Jon would get to be on her show. It was through her radio show that I heard about the fact that 2018 SBC presidential candidate JD Greear had preached in 2014 that it is Christians' duty to "support" the rainbow coalition. After his tragic election she also brought the light his obsequious dialogue with a Muslim in which he said that Christians should "support the Muslim community". Meaning perhaps let unvetted Syrians into the country and keep the FBI away from jihadist mosques? I can't think of anything in the way of "supporting the Muslim community" that sensible Christians should have undertaken. There should have been a ton of Christian men bringing both of those things to light.
She did on her blog attack Doug Wilson and then not too long after that Bott Radio quietly dropped her and she was off the air completely before the end of the year. I've been curious as to what the whole story about that is.
@@conceptualclarity I was on Mefferd a couple times.
@@ConversationsThatMatterpodcast too bad I missed that hopefully I can get around to finding it with a search
Mefferd has Christian Nationalism Derangement syndrome.
She went woke. Not to complicated. But her story is why women shouldn't be elevated and it's no different than Aimee Byrd or Beth Moore.
@@anthonyfava9367 if you have more details on Mefferd I am interested in hearing them
You are correct. On Esther, the story is not an example to follow. As with Debora, the story of Esther, a very young woman who agrees to entertain the king and his sick buddies by showing off herself, is shameful. Mordecai was wrong, and to his shame, his niece not only was put to act like a whore but almost died following his request. Of course, the jews were not killed, but only by the grace of God. If someone is the good example to follow, it would be Queen Vasti, a pagan who took better decisions than Mordecai and Esther. All those stories, Debora, Esther, Sapphira, etc were written as indictments against the men of God who failed in their calling to lead as heads to honor God. They are but examples of what we as men should never allow to happen.
Where in the story of Esther does she show off to the king's friends? Also, when did she almost die?
I was under the impression that Esther had no choice in the matter. She was a Godly Jewish girl and was not there to show herself off to the king. If anything it was she, and the other women in those times who suffered being forced to be in Harems. She was not a whore.
@treeleaf7808 Coming to the presence of the king without being called could have been considered an offense that could have cost anyone his life. The confrontation against Haman could have gone very wrong for her. Her own words revealed she knew the danger she was in, "if I perish, I perish."
@staceylaszlo6321 Did Vasti have a choice? Yes, the same choice Esther had. One chose not to obey a pervert pagan. The other went along with the sick pervertion of her uncle. Again, not an example to follow. Vasti is the only one who acyed virtuously of the whole story. A pagan woman behaving more godly than the hebrew one. What a symbol of the free grace of God that would be lavished, in Christ, to jews and Gentiles without distinction.
@treeleaf7808 When Esther was summoned to show before the king, after a long time of preparation for the "beauty pageant " contest, it was not just her walking before the king in a private room. That's not how it was. There were the closest advisers, members of the court ("friends"), even guards would be present. The king, we are told, was a pervert drunkard who liked to show off his trophy wives a parade them before his buddies. What happened with Vasti was not a single "mistake", once in his lifetime event. This is a precedent, only an example of a wicked pattern of a wicked king. We should not suppose that Esther was summoned only the time the book mentioned it. The book does not describe the years Esther was Queen and the many times wicked things like that more than likely happened.
It’s interesting how many complementarian Christians I observe have the opinion that women shouldn’t lead in church but “of course they can be leaders in the workplace or be a CEO!”. This is coming from pretty “conservative” Christian’s in relation to the broader Christian demographic. So even many in the “conservative” camp advocate for functional gender blending… and we wonder why the full blown tr@ns movement is a thing?
Nailed it!
I am becoming Anglican (ACNA), and divining into the liturgical life of the Church has helped me understand the restriction on women teaching. Liturgical preaching/teaching carries the authority of Christ. It is an exercise of ecclesiastical headship. That’s why it’s restricted to holy men. Something like a Sunday school is a grey area - I’d probably not do it. Writing articles for parachurch organizations is, to me, not crossing that line.
My wife and I started a little church out in the country in Nicaragua. And we only have 7 men and 40 women. The women and the Pastor and his wife were putting women in the positions as leaders. It took me a year to get things back in line. The problem is most of the men in the community have been married and divorced. We have a very low selection for Elders. We are doing some Bible studies with the men to get them to step up. But here it seems women run everything. We are making progress.when Nicaraguans watch Churches in the United States it is never a good thing. Because most of the Churches on tv has compromised.
I agree whole heatedly with this.
During cvd the church I was going to had a bully as the minister who took out elders who disagreed with him. I group of us stood against it but aside from the 2 elders targeted it was left to me, a single woman, to go before the presbytery. I look back on that time and have changed how I fight for things. It took so much out of me and I realised by Gods grace it was not my place to fight. But that being said I grieve that some of the men did not step in
God used women in certain instances, e.g. Deborah, Huldah, etc. This proves that there are exceptions to the rule. However, at no point in Scripture does God ever tell us to look for or utilize exceptions as justification for anything. Women are not to lead in the home (I Cor. 11), in church, (I Tim. 2), or in the government (Isa. 3). Spencer Smith says that a woman preacher is automatically a false teacher. I 100% agree. Neither my wife nor I ever vote for a woman in any elected position. My wife lets me lead the home, and we are both happier for it. God's way is simple, it is clear, and it is wonderful.
Why does Isaiah 3 apply to Christians if kosher laws and Saturday sabbath don’t apply?
@@vanessaloy1049 Isaiah 3:12-15
As for My people, children are their oppressors, And women rule over them. O My people! Those who lead you cause you to err, And destroy the way of your paths. The LORD stands up to plead, And stands to judge the people. The LORD will enter into judgment With the elders of His people And His princes: “For you have eaten up the vineyard; The plunder of the poor is in your houses. What do you mean by crushing My people And grinding the faces of the poor?" Says the Lord GOD of hosts. This is not about being under OT law. I am not a seventh-day Adventist or any other kind of legalist. But without the Old Testament, there is no justification for the New. The principles of all of Scripture, correctly interpreted, apply equally. You cannot understand the NT without a proper understanding of the OT. This passage in Isaiah is clearly saying that women in political power is a judgment of God on the people. That principle applied in Isaiah’s day, and it applies today. That was and is my only point in having brought up this passage.
@@tedmerritt9048 Why did Jesus praise the Queen of the South?
@@vanessaloy1049 I don’t understand what this has to do with our discussion. The Queen of Sheba came to see Solomon, and she was blown away by his wisdom and his wealth. What of it?
@@tedmerritt9048 Jesus praised her; He didn’t say “She was wrong for being a monarch.”
Someday I will stand before God and if he has told me to preach and you told me I was not to preach I will still be accountable before him and not you
I don't believe women are called to preach, BUT I also discern true misogyny on this channel & in the comments that's palpable w/men & sadly women whose desire seems to be to place UNbiblical limits on women that the Lord never intended. I'm sorry for those on this channel who give life to the caricature that drives people away from God & His Church & pray you keep Jesus FIRST in your life, in agreement w/His PERFECT Word, so you may have peace with our Lord & Savior Jesus Christ & His Spirit which guides us. Bottom line, Jesus is BOTH, therefore "love" void of Truth & "truth" void of Love are NEITHER & only capable of reproducing in the world the LIE they represent.
God wouldn't tell you something that contradicts his Word, Sharon.
@@kaylan2083 100% agree, what I just said does NOT contradict His perfect Word & Spirit, which are ALWAYS in agreement.
@@sheilacabrera3986 you saying you have been told by God to preach is not Biblical.
@@kaylan2083 Oh my, please tell me where I said anything about women being called to preach.
I agree with everything you said, but doesn’t it seem a little contradictory if we say women now must do these things because men are not doing them, but then also acknowledge that the world will not let men do these things and so women should do them for that reason…
Just a couple of comments John. The Proverbs 31 woman does not engage in business as that is understood today, (i.e. an independent career). Her "business" consists in what would be expected to manage a household in the pastoral and agricultural culture of Israel. She is managing her husband's household when he is not present, since he is an elder. That is why it says "The heart of her husband safely trusts in her." That is, he can do his work, knowing that his house will be taken care of when he is not there. A commentary on Proverbs 31 is Titus 2:4-5, 1Tim. 2:15, Gen. 2:18 and 1Cor. 11:7-9. The woman is her husband's subordinate delegate in his home. She reflects his character and authority, and manages the home and his children when he is not present. When he is present, he does it, as he is the head and lord of that house. Another thing is the common idea that men lead and women nurture. I personally don't like this language because it implies that men don't nurture, when fathers are the first called to nurture both their wives and their children. Men actually lead in his home, he does not leave that to his wife while he merely provides and protects. Again, the wife is his delegate, and his subordinate.
And no, women should not be in leadership positions over men, either in the home or anywhere else.
@@yerkodifonis3019 Women can’t direct male servants in the absence of her husband?
@@americandropbear5081 Good question, and I'm not sure about the answer to that. Man is the head of woman in general (1Cor. 11:3), which would conflict with a woman directing male servants, so I'm not sure how that would work logistically. Perhaps this is the reason men in Bible times had a male steward to direct servants and see to the wider household. I have the impression that in the old west in America, one of the farm hands would be in charge of the men, while the farmer's wife took care of homemaking and teaching and disciplining the children when he was not home. Does anyone else here have a clearer answer to this? I'd be interested in reading it.
@@americandropbear5081 Excellent question and it comes down to delegated authority. My wife directs a bunch of men as we remodel our house.
It’s interesting that the excellent wife prepares food portions for her young women in addition to preparing food for her family. (Proverbs 31:15) What about the men servants? Or is there instead a man servant, an overseer, whom her husband has put in charge of all the male servants as in the case of Joseph and Potiphar’s household? But Joseph did not have authority over Potiphar’s wife. (Genesis 39:8-9)
Well said. I agree. And I a female retired engineer from nuclear industry and more time power stations than corporate.
No
I come from a place of curiosity in asking the question: Is there any limit to your understanding of the role of women in leadership? What I mean by this is there a point where the your idea are there conditions where women can and maybe ought to be in leadership?
(not this channel)
Since a woman could be a pastor in the Old Covenant, a woman
can be a pastor in the New Covenant. Simple really.
I suggest my short and free scripturally-based essay on Deborah.
Men and women are perfectly equal spiritually. She was a pastor, according to the scriptures. This is how the Judges are described in Chronicles, by God.
In all places where I have walked with all Israel, have I spoken a word with any of the judges of Israel, whom I commanded to shepherd My people, saying, ‘Why have you not built Me a house of cedar?’
-excerpt 1 Chronicles 17 verse 6 NASB translation
A woman could only be given the authority by God to execute a man for his sin, if women are spiritually equal to men. A Judge could judge homicide cases according to Deuteronomy. Therefore Deborah, as a Judge, could execute a man for his sin. A Judge's verdict could not be altered or appealed.
Refusal to accept a Judge's verdict on any matter,
resulted in execution, according to Deuteronomy.
A Judge was cleared to teach from scripture as he/she gave a verdict, according to Deuteronomy. Since in Judges 4, men went to Deborah to be judged, a woman could teach men, even in the Old Covenant in a public setting.
Read time: 12 minutes postable here
You mean like, "The wife who leads the house under her husband's leadership?" Yes. Everywhere else? Nah.
J D Hall???
9:15 background leopard :)
Good video. In my lil space of the world, many of the "men" have abdicated their responsibilities. Either young stubborn men who cant be questioned because they are "God ordained officers" (think Rehoboam's advisors) who can only speak as a committee or elderly (cognitive declining) wealthy men who have been in their office for ever are in leadership roles. Qualified, humble, wise, 45 to 65 yr olds are no where to be found .😢 Its frustrating for a middle age divorced woman who longs for guidance and Godly support from the church leadership. I'm not a feminazi by any stretch of the imagination but see such a deficiency in the church body. Not sure how to help or what to do about it other than pray for God's leading.
The young men are the ones God is raising up to lead. There will not be many GenXers
@@cosmictreason2242 they say the same thing. Then don't follow Scripture as their guide but each other. 🥴
@@nodramamomma2777 Wom,en, who are the majority of voters, have voted for this cha,os and their agents in the government, academia, religious organizations, corporations and the courts (family law) carry out wom,en's wishes yet wom,en take no accountability for their actions and still blame m,en for their circumstances, even though Western wom,en are currently the most privileged creatures to ever have existed on earth... This cha,os will continue as long as 19A exists. Wom,en have ki,lled King Leonidas via their vote, belligerence and rebellion and now King Xerxes is coming for them. Be careful for what you ask. Equ,ality is not all it is cracked up to be. Strong m,en, after figh,ting a losing bat,tle for 50 years, are exhausted and are respecting wom,en's wishes by stepping aside and letting wom,en reap what they have sown. Society is colla,psing like it always does when wom,anism rules the day. Proverbs 21:9, 21:19. 1 Timothy 2:11-15
@@nodramamomma2777 I posted a much longer, articulate comment but YT blocked it. In summary: nope, you have usurped their power and therefore assumed their responsibilities. Pottery Barn: "You broke it, now you own it"
No, they shouldn't
saluting your daughter flag etiquette, lol
11:15 if it was Megan basham who said that then my regard for her increases
Very well said.
What about Megan at a conference?
No didactic exhortative speech. Abigail attempted to influence David. Study how she did it.
Judges 5...DEBORAH
It is interesting that we take a very literal, modern perspective on the English word, authority in relation to women and leadership. In the Greek, this the word used in 1 Tim 2 is only found once in the NT, here. Everywhere else that we find the English term, it comes from a different Greek word, but yet we choose to define it in the same manner. We may not know the precise understanding of the term in 1Tim 2, so why make it a cornerstone of a patriarchal doctrine? Yes, the English word authority comes from this Greek word, but we cannot go backwards two thousand years and define the Greek based on modern English.
Scripture interprets scripture. There's no reason to inject ambiguity with the references to subordination in v.11 and in I Cor. 14:34.
@@conceptualclarity Which can lead to circular reasoning. The passages you reference talk about church context, whatever that meant then. All through this thread people are defining and limiting leadership in all areas, one says they shouldn't even vote and another that they shouldn't go to seminary. We are defining this atypical Greek term based mostly on our pre-existing positions, not quality exegesis.
@@JohnMark1313
The Judges were the primary pastors/shepherds of God's
people during that time period. I appreciate you and others
looking at the original Greek, however that isn't necessary.
Deborah. Judges 4 and 5.
Authority = authenteō means to exercise authority on one's own account, do domineer over. First Tim 2:12 it is used "to usurp authority" or to "have dominion", later it came to denote in Greek as one who acts on his own. This occurs when a woman performs the creational act of dominion without her husband or who acts without headship in an autocratic or absolute way. In 1 Tim 2:12, Paul grounds headship and hierarchy in Genesis 1-2. First Timothy 2:12 should and can also be interpreted canonically with the view of the many husband/wife relationships throughout Scripture. This headship over autocracy is most lucid in the metaphor of Christ and His Bride, the Church, where the Bride of Christ submits in everything to her Husband Jesus. The Church is actually the reality & fulfillment to the creational mandate, though it comes later in the redemptive storyline. The Apostles have interpretive authority to help us interpret 1 Tim 2:12 most clearly and we can know via the "Analogy of faith".
I would also say that the Scripture itself upholds a Patriarchal model. The Trinity is a Patriarchy. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, is described in patriarchal terms, using masculine pronouns, as male, as head, as Shepperd, as King, as Ruler, as one having Dominion, etc. Theology Proper upholds a Patriarchy. The very nature and essence of God is such and that flows to Adam as a Creature, as one who in created in the imago de. the Patriarchy does not hang on 1 Tim 2:12. It is throughout the canon of Scripture.
In real life conditions in today's western world they have the freedom to do just that but the exceptional woman here or there should not become the measuring stick of what constitutes liberty.
God's Word is the standard. Back in the closet you go
Only over other women and children.
What does the Bible state the Women are supposed to teach other women? The Bible is actually pretty specific.
@@casey1167exactly. Women like to take great liberty with that passage. They get as close to pastors as possible.
@@casey1167 Titus 2:3-5 demonstrates SOME things older women ought to teach the younger women, especially wives, and you can refer to 1 Peter 3: 1-6 for a summary. That said, it does NOT prevent teaching more. If you examine Luke 10:38-42, as well as many other verses, you will note that Christ often went against the social norm of His day and strongly encouraged women to learn of theological matters. It concords with His approach to children as well, encouraging them to also participate in learning. Again, only men ought teach other adult men or mixed crowds. Also wives ought get their explanations from their husbands; whom they ought refer to using the same word used for Christ: kurios, lord. It is kurious why 1 Peter 3: 1- 6 is almost never preached on, especially given Peter was indeed married (i Cor 9:5).
Clearly women are encouraged to learn from men about many things but most of the time, household duties and much else is something that NORMALLY they would lean from older women. My case was different and I basically taught my 18yo wife much about "womanly things" due to poor training by her mother, but that's a rabbit trail I'll spare you from. Pinky knows I'm weird. Jon is pinky because as a mulatto, there are no white people. Look at Jon, pink not white so he reminds me of the old cartoon, Pinky and me.
The question remains, ought women teach other women about theology ect. I would say that nowhere in Scripture is that directly addressed. Saying what OUGHT be done as cited at the beginning does NOT preclude what MORE could be allowed. There's much that is spoken of with certainty, such as paedobaptism, which the Bible is actually silent. I personally am of the opinion that women ought be allowed to teach other women theology BUT that a man ought to at least from time to time look over the material to make sure they're not straying to far. Women are more easily deceived in these matters, as the Bible makes explicitly clear.
A few years ago, your wife Danielle Elizabeth operated her own calligraphy business called “DE Harris Design” in Lynchburg, where she tagged herself on IG as a girlboss. Did you suddenly change your mind about women in leadership? Or are you just another religious grifter?
👍
Yes, they should because God shows no partiality.
Good point. To me Scripture is being used according to men so they can be over women. Sure some in marriage and some cases, but not every case.
What about deaconess’s?
@@garybonniegiest8850 I think there’s a biblical case for them as servants, but in some denominations like the PCA they have a level of authority apparently which makes it more controversial.
There is no office of deaconess.
I think it's worth pointing out that in church history we see that deaconesses were not members of church deacon boards but rather were appointed for particular tasks with other women
Scripture doesn’t say.
women novelists
An almost 25 minute video I can sum up with one word. No
Stupid question! YES
@@ivanasimic2072 What’s stupid about it?
The leaders of makeing me a Sandwich
Say hello to my Second Amendment rights.
3:40 He is close to being dead on right on
No.
18:50 If she is hungry go tell her to catch a mouse.