For people saying £60K a year starting salary in IB is high compensation for selling your life away: £60K salary - 90hrs a week which is actually only £30K for an average 45hr working week. You are only getting paid more because you are technically working 2 jobs, it doesn't mean you earn a lot for the amount of work you do.
If you think the compensation along should be the criterion to evaluate the value of the job you have no idea what you are talking about. Hint: people willing sign up to be overworked precisely because there will be fewer of them to compete against and the experience they gain puts their career on a very fast trajectory.
I feel bad for the guy/girl who mentioned growing up in a foster home as they’ll be so easily identified within the team (since there’s only 13 responses)
How do you know they disclosed it on their CV and/or to colleagues? How do you know if there is only one person who went through foster core in the entire IBD? How do you know that the foster care thing is actually true? So many questions... I highly doubt they would have given that answer if that meant risking to get identified and/or sacked.
It's the old mystique of the banking lore bullshit that all these big banks implement for whatever goddamn reason and no one can really confirm why. Can they hire extra analysts to offload the workflow? Sure. But will they? No.
@@cardsharkz485 Many employees who stay long start at these companies after college. They don't have any other benchmark. Maybe they like it really or they seem to be brainwashed. But for me leaving Goldman was one of the best decision
When I entered IBD a few years ago, I didn't expect a 9-5 job but whatever GS is doing is just inhumane and just not sustainable for both the short and long term. Yes you can argue that "well that's banking you know what you signed up for tough shit!" but there's a certain point where it can be not only detrimental to your work output but to your health as well in a critical manner. I've personally seen analysts develop heart and eating disorder problems and some in our pen develop explosive tantrums because you can tell it's just been building up from that 1-2 intense deals they've been working on for weeks and that affects everyone else, especially other analysts. It's just crazy to think that these young people are working for really if you think about it minimum wage with those unbelievable hours. Yes the payoff is great with the added bonus and exit opps, but do you really want to sacrifice those 2-3 precious years of the prime of your life slaving away in your desk for ~105 hours/week and risking your health both in the short and long term like that? Not trying to discourage anyone from trying to enter IBD, it's just something to think about.
Regarding a lot of the exit opps, it’s not as if they’re a holiday either. For example PE the hours are still pretty brutal. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt about high finance is that it’s never just a few years sacrifice, there’s always something to work towards and the hours/stress never really becomes manageable until either you leave the industry or reach the very top (MD) but then there is lots of stress/pressure/travelling.
I'm currently working in asset management and find the work-life balance perfect. During my time off I focus on my personal investments and side business which would make more money than IB bonuses. I work on average 50-60 hours a week and find it easy to manage my well-being, relationships and hobbies. This report has only cemented my career choices.
even 60 hours have you in the office for 13 hours per day. 7 hours of sleep, 1 hour commute, 1 hour workout, 2 hours of cooking and eating already leave you at 0.. without commute to the gym, without showers and healthcare, no time for friends and family, not even for some reading or other hobbies, saturday you can spend the whole day for housework and grocery shopping, sunday you‘ll need time for yourself after such a week
@@JP-js8jr to be clear I do not spend more than 45 hrs at the office this is including commute, lunch and gym in middle of the day. My extra "working" hrs are for my side business which I'm passionate about and don't find it stressful or draining as I am a teaching motivated students. Most evenings I meal prep and would say I have easily 6 hrs of free time and full weekends free.
"why don't you leave?" when do they have time to look for another role? Unless they quit without a backup plan. If they dont piss all their money away and have a couple months expenses saved then they could.
I work in Germany and it's just not true that due to the nature of the work working conditions can not be effectively influenced. I work in Tech and Tech working conditions, although not even close to IBD working conditions, in the US and UK are also known to be grueling. In Germany its different because of strict regulations on overtime and strict enforcements. This is just slaving away and it is very sad that young people are choosing that lifestyle.
@@ryanklarnet5905 don't think so, Frankfurt IBD divisions are frequently made fun of by their anglo Saxon counterparts for working little. Still much more than the regular German worker for sure, but not close to US working hours. It really does come down to culture, unionization and strong regulation enforcement.
Man's gotta eat though, you can either pick that, or do nothing. Not many people actually enjoy what they are doing, some of them are pinned against the wall, don't have rich parents or other form of good support. Given that, employers cynically abuse that fact because they will drop heavy shit on you, and what can you do? Quit the job? Without any backup?
I remember reading an article on how David Solomon got annoyed when some analysts at a restaurant in the Hamptons came up to him because they weren't working... despite him also not working and being at the same restaurant
@@rahul87184 Maybe not in Goldman Sachs, but in another bank/institution. Everyone applies for analyst roles after graduating. No one applies as Managing Director at 23.
you should do a video, ranking the top banks in order of top to bottom or tier then A*, A, B, C or F based on your opinions or from what you've heard from friends who work at other banks
As a 19 year old who goes to a target university and is (was) seriously considering investment banking, thank you for this video Afzal! I’ve realised lately this type of life isn’t what I want for my twenties. Now that I know I don’t want this type of life I’ve decided if I dont want this type of life I’ll make the most of the years I’m sacrificing by having a great time
Not good quality. Have worked with GS on a couple of projects. They are all clearly very intelligent, but they make ridiculous decisions and I'm convinced it's completely down to them operating on fumes. No human can sustain that and function at the higher end of performance.
I remember starting college with a goal to become a financial analyst/IB. I had to write a paper about the work life and I disliked it so much I switch my major to electrical engineering. Best choice I ever made and now I’m planning to earn my masters
In regard to the 80 hour week cap, I think it should be expected that during big deals there should be extra work put in, but surely they could set a finite yearly number of weeks for those occasions with a sort of "clock-in" system the firm signs off on before entering those periods. Maybe turn over rates isn't a big deal in IB but practically every piece of organisational psychology literature states otherwise. I'm looking at the big-4 for a little more balance, and don't mind a 60-70 hour week, but we both know every 5 hours you stick onto the end of that limit really just has diminishing returns - especially over the long term.
Yah this is an industry where its expected to be a revolving door for the majority of juniors. The typical IB to PE life cycle is, you do your two years in investment banking, then get recruited to a private equity firm. In all honesty, a lot of the analysts already have their exit planned out midway through the second year. Meaning an offer on the table they've accepted and are keeping quiet until a few weeks before their 2 year anniversary. There are of course the associates and up who are doing this longer term but yah, i'd say thats gotta be less than half of the people who get into this business to begin with.
Hey Afzal, could you comment on why printing pitch books and material in general is still such a big deal in 2021 when we have all the tech we need to make presentations entirely digital? Great video as always ✌️
I really liked the video, very well done! What I didn't appreciate much, is the fact that it seems like you justified the bank. Even if the reasoning sounds logical, it musnt be that way. The thing is simple: working more than X hours is illegal, for a series of reasons. When something is illegal, it must be punished and changed. This is slavery and it is not much distant from serfdom
Never been this early in my life ha. Would you say the type of work junior analysts do in asset management is similar to work done in the IB division? Putting together pitch decks allbeit for a different purpose etc...
Quality over quantity. Work smart, not long. The mind and body are your vehicles to your happiness and wealth, do not destroy them to put money in someone else's bank account.
24:11 - I agree. I was a bit shocked when I saw this news story being circulated and gaining attention. Investment banking has been like this for years, the 95-hours a week thing is not a new concept. People who apply to IB know what they're signing up for.
Thanks, Afzal. Do you reckon your insights apply to MBA associates too? Also, according to your experience, do you think there are some differences in IBD culture between banks i.e. GS vs CS?
It’s been well known IB for the first 2 years average between 80 - 100 hours/week. That’s why you see it is a revolving door and you see most quit IB and left for something else. Am I correct?
3 роки тому+4
Great video. On the point of being shouted at, there's no need for that. Thick skin not required. Managers need to treat people with respect, be fair, but firm. Clear instructions, strict discipline without raising the voice. Hire talent, not time wasters.
Very good insight. I may be past my chance to enter high finance right after I earn my bachelor's, but after I earn my JD and hopefully MBA, this video will help remind me of what I will get into. Hoping to get into M&A or PE.
Such an insightful watch - thank you. Question: in your experience, as most go to large IBs for experience and later move to Hedge Funds etc. is there not a more reasonable way to get the same level of experience without the unhealthy lifestyle?
I'm just laughing at the people who still decide to work in investment banking, strategic consulting etc. In my eyes, these people totally lost track of their lives and yet believe that they are the winners. The greatest achievement of modern society is the existence of free time and the freedom to do with it, what you want. And still there are people who throw all this away, who spent their best years in life working like slaves just to earn money they cannot spend due to lack of free time. And those are people who are clever enough to do jobs with way better conditions that are also payed well. But still they decide that money is more important than freedom, than a basic health level, than social contacts, than spending time with the people they love. It's ridiculous.
The greatest achievement of modern society is free-time ? Clearly not. The greatest achievement of the modern society is that, if you're willing to work hard enough, you can reach the very top of society. The meritocracy of work condition and social status is their reality. And they'll benefit from another standard of life than middle-class worker. It isnt just about the money. It is about being on top of most of the society. It is about becoming the people who implement global-change in the society. It is about being the subject of jealousy, yet admired through modern eyes. It is about status.
I mean the way I look at it is slave away from 22-26 and with raises and bonuses you can save approx 1 million dollars (Toronto). Money gives you the flexibility to choose what you want later on and IB gives good exit opportunities for less stressful jobs with that nest egg IB built for you in your back pocket.
I generally agree with your thoughts. On a broader note, how do you think this will affect IB recruiting vis-a-vis competing with other industries to attract graduates? Banks have been increasingly struggling with tech firms to attract high-calibre graduates. After all, why put yourself through this when you could work better hours, do more interesting work (although I appreciate that this is arguable), be at the centre of innovation, with just as good a brand name on your CV?
It is still puzzling to me why the investment banking divisions of old school banks have not embraced technology to the same extend as e.g. trading desks? The real question remain, will the "investment banker" position still exist during the next decade? What happens when corporates get full access to same amount of tools and data as investment bankers? Is corporate access and not power points really the true value add for this industry?
How much would one's mental abilities decline with only 5 hours sleep over say several months? When I was a company commander in the Army I slept 4-5 hours Monday thru Thursday night and probably 5-7 hours typically on Friday thru Sunday night. When I left command my PT scores went up 20-30 points although I was working out only 2/3rd's as hard. I am pretty sure there was also some mental decline, as well as the physical decline, from only getting 30 hours sleep most weeks for over two years.
these hours are just possible as the analysts themselves are competitive. they could say no to tasks and cap their work at the hours mentioned in their contract, but there will be some other guy doing the work and they can be replaced. as long as there are people willing to do the work, why should the bank change its structures and conditions?
Got accepted into my MSc Investment Management which grad schemes would you recommend following this or would you suggest looking straight at hedge fund/ P Equity? Class vid as per!
A good software engineer can achieve the same compensation and work a flexible 8 hour day. I can't imagine putting up with working conditions like these.
@@jethrojacinto2798 Even so, it's remarkable. If my life literally depended upon it, I can tell you that I wouldn't be able to work such hours, or even close to it, for more than a couple of weeks.
Nice video, do one on corporate banking, much better hours and better bonuses than AM at the right bank. Also corporate rather than commercial, I see the distinction as Commerical being for SME's and corporate for blue chips - much different game.
I have been watching your videos all day, you cover such interesting topics. I work in big tech and the culture it's very similar as in the investment industry, the good and the bad. Have you ever seen the documentary The Men Who Stole The World about the traders, bankers and investment execs during the 2008 crisis? Think it would make a great 'Ex-Goldman Sachs REACTS' video.
I am working in investment banking in Canada. ~70 hours a week average (some weeks as bad as GS) but pay is ~C$170k / year. Also NO ONE can yell or swear at you, just generally frowned upon (even most senior people are courteous / polite / professional).
Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any sympathy for anyone in the investment banking industry. The compensation for the long hours is the high pay , simple. I chose not to apply for investment banking as I value work life balance. You can't have your cake and eat it
Well when you break that high pay into $/hr. You would rather prefer working 2 different jobs. One where you gotta go make the cheddar. 2nd, where you can do something you love
the biggest thing on this survey which isn't being covered (as it's not the headline) is the percentage of analysts who say they have experienced abuse. i'd be surprised if no one internally reaches out to them on this...
This is exactly what Peter Thiel related in his Zero to One. People compete to get into elite school, then compete to get into these "suppose elite jobs"... then absolutely had no idea if that is what they want. It happened to him and he got out of his lawyer job feeling the same way as these analyst . This is the TRAP!
Well what you just said is literally for anything in life. Whether going to the NBA where you play elite team and compete for a spot is the same as your job. If your uncomfortable being in such a competitive surrounding or you just don’t enjoy your job, then your not doing a career you love.
@@fxproxxt7149 Hi am from Ghana, I want to do my Masters in Finance in sweden. How difficult is it to get IB or Asset Management job after completion as a foreigner in Sweden
Seriously this video makes me cry and laugh at the same time. Working in health care for years and hearing the same bullying, and work politics from competition. This is nothing new. If you hate it so much, and it was horrifying then complain to human Resource or even get a lawyer. Reading complaints online is like opening a can of worms, it defame a company sure, then what?
Jusus Crist! I'm a Insurance Agent in Italy , and I work 75-80 Hours a week , because this Is my First Years in the Business , and I think that i doing the impossible but when i look this numers i was impress. 😳😶😶☹️😳
Even if it is 100K a year. I’d rather pass and enjoy my life. “Goldman Slaves” more like Mordern day slavery. I wonder how much the business itself rakes in as a result of these workers hard work. Absolute bollox.
Just out of curiosity, at around 16:30 you mention that people don’t actually work 18h straight but actually have an afternoon gap where they just loiter about. if individuals from the IB division have a lot of time when they’re just waiting for different regions to deliver instructions, why don’t they take that time off to rest?
I don't have time to spend so much at work, i have a lot of other things to take care of like work out, play csgo and play golf and hang out with friends. But you that work so many hours at a bank is doing good, it is an important work you do and you are important!
Get all 9 of my Career Guides (plus my Goldman Sachs CV and Cover Letter) for £29.99 here: careerguides.io/plus
For people saying £60K a year starting salary in IB is high compensation for selling your life away: £60K salary - 90hrs a week which is actually only £30K for an average 45hr working week. You are only getting paid more because you are technically working 2 jobs, it doesn't mean you earn a lot for the amount of work you do.
In nyc it’s more like 120-150k
lol total comp in london is 75-95k in first year...
@@ismaileyaqub6335 depends what firm you work for and in what area of IB
If you think the compensation along should be the criterion to evaluate the value of the job you have no idea what you are talking about. Hint: people willing sign up to be overworked precisely because there will be fewer of them to compete against and the experience they gain puts their career on a very fast trajectory.
there's also a bonus which is like 50-100% of the base starting salary in nyc BB at least.
I feel bad for the guy/girl who mentioned growing up in a foster home as they’ll be so easily identified within the team (since there’s only 13 responses)
They'll be sacked for sure.
It may be possible they didn’t disclose that information as it is optional
They'll be Goldman Sacked lol
@@arpitpatel83 err errr
How do you know they disclosed it on their CV and/or to colleagues? How do you know if there is only one person who went through foster core in the entire IBD? How do you know that the foster care thing is actually true? So many questions... I highly doubt they would have given that answer if that meant risking to get identified and/or sacked.
Can someone explain why Goldman, a multi-billion dollar company, can't just hire a few extra analysts to offload the current burden?
It's the old mystique of the banking lore bullshit that all these big banks implement for whatever goddamn reason and no one can really confirm why. Can they hire extra analysts to offload the workflow? Sure. But will they? No.
profit maximisation, hiring more workers leads to a loss in revenue for the firm
Then the employees would realize that their hourly wages suck.
@@cardsharkz485 Many employees who stay long start at these companies after college. They don't have any other benchmark. Maybe they like it really or they seem to be brainwashed. But for me leaving Goldman was one of the best decision
@@harshadmehta12 what division where you in? I’m interning in a middle office role and slightly nervous at the possible prospect of 50+ hours weeks.
When I entered IBD a few years ago, I didn't expect a 9-5 job but whatever GS is doing is just inhumane and just not sustainable for both the short and long term. Yes you can argue that "well that's banking you know what you signed up for tough shit!" but there's a certain point where it can be not only detrimental to your work output but to your health as well in a critical manner.
I've personally seen analysts develop heart and eating disorder problems and some in our pen develop explosive tantrums because you can tell it's just been building up from that 1-2 intense deals they've been working on for weeks and that affects everyone else, especially other analysts. It's just crazy to think that these young people are working for really if you think about it minimum wage with those unbelievable hours.
Yes the payoff is great with the added bonus and exit opps, but do you really want to sacrifice those 2-3 precious years of the prime of your life slaving away in your desk for ~105 hours/week and risking your health both in the short and long term like that? Not trying to discourage anyone from trying to enter IBD, it's just something to think about.
what would you say is a good alternative other than having to go through all the stress etc just for the great exit opportunities?
@@em8136 Go straight for the Exit options
Good point. Just depends on ones goals, but it should definitely be less intense.
I was a victim. I joined IBD Syndicate. The experience was horrible and painful. It's hard to forget it.
Regarding a lot of the exit opps, it’s not as if they’re a holiday either. For example PE the hours are still pretty brutal. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt about high finance is that it’s never just a few years sacrifice, there’s always something to work towards and the hours/stress never really becomes manageable until either you leave the industry or reach the very top (MD) but then there is lots of stress/pressure/travelling.
The comparison between IB and AM divisions was extremely helpful!
AM front office here. Cannot complain one bit. Can’t imagine working 100 hours and having a 1 out of 10 on personal life scale
I'm currently working in asset management and find the work-life balance perfect. During my time off I focus on my personal investments and side business which would make more money than IB bonuses. I work on average 50-60 hours a week and find it easy to manage my well-being, relationships and hobbies. This report has only cemented my career choices.
What side business are you doing
50 -60 Hrs is also too long. Almost 1.5 times the usual work week of 40 hrs. plus add your commute time and you are spending easily 60- 70 hrs .
even 60 hours have you in the office for 13 hours per day. 7 hours of sleep, 1 hour commute, 1 hour workout, 2 hours of cooking and eating already leave you at 0.. without commute to the gym, without showers and healthcare, no time for friends and family, not even for some reading or other hobbies, saturday you can spend the whole day for housework and grocery shopping, sunday you‘ll need time for yourself after such a week
@@annajones9701 I run a maths tutoring class
@@JP-js8jr to be clear I do not spend more than 45 hrs at the office this is including commute, lunch and gym in middle of the day. My extra "working" hrs are for my side business which I'm passionate about and don't find it stressful or draining as I am a teaching motivated students. Most evenings I meal prep and would say I have easily 6 hrs of free time and full weekends free.
"why don't you leave?"
when do they have time to look for another role?
Unless they quit without a backup plan. If they dont piss all their money away and have a couple months expenses saved then they could.
I work in Germany and it's just not true that due to the nature of the work working conditions can not be effectively influenced. I work in Tech and Tech working conditions, although not even close to IBD working conditions, in the US and UK are also known to be grueling. In Germany its different because of strict regulations on overtime and strict enforcements. This is just slaving away and it is very sad that young people are choosing that lifestyle.
Thats the nature of tech though, I'm sure Frankfurt IBD hours are on par or near to London
@@ryanklarnet5905 don't think so, Frankfurt IBD divisions are frequently made fun of by their anglo Saxon counterparts for working little. Still much more than the regular German worker for sure, but not close to US working hours. It really does come down to culture, unionization and strong regulation enforcement.
@@aysepersona4194 Frankfurt offices are referred to as „sweat shops“. They are on par or more extreme.
Man's gotta eat though, you can either pick that, or do nothing. Not many people actually enjoy what they are doing, some of them are pinned against the wall, don't have rich parents or other form of good support.
Given that, employers cynically abuse that fact because they will drop heavy shit on you, and what can you do? Quit the job? Without any backup?
@@aysepersona4194 Hey, falls es nicht zu privat für dich ist, wie viele Stunden arbeitest du wöchentlich im Vergleich zu amerikanischen Standorten?
I remember reading an article on how David Solomon got annoyed when some analysts at a restaurant in the Hamptons came up to him because they weren't working... despite him also not working and being at the same restaurant
He is the CEO. He worked long hours when he was an analyst
Haha he is the ceo, he can do whatever he wants
@@MeenBack you think CEOs start at the analyst level? Lol
@@rahul87184 Maybe not in Goldman Sachs, but in another bank/institution. Everyone applies for analyst roles after graduating. No one applies as Managing Director at 23.
@@FrenchPaperz Nice leadership, good luck with that. I can see you have no management skills lol
you should do a video, ranking the top banks in order of top to bottom or tier then A*, A, B, C or F based on your opinions or from what you've heard from friends who work at other banks
23yo, starting IBD next month, god have mercy on my soul 😂
where u startin at?
@@Jan_Schulte Capital African Partners
@@ghassenbenhassouna7073 good luck 🤞🏽
Why are you whining? Don’t do it
@@satvindermudan5006 im not, im actually very excited
As a 19 year old who goes to a target university and is (was) seriously considering investment banking, thank you for this video Afzal! I’ve realised lately this type of life isn’t what I want for my twenties. Now that I know I don’t want this type of life I’ve decided if I dont want this type of life I’ll make the most of the years I’m sacrificing by having a great time
Going to bed at 3am and coming to work before 9am? What quality of work are they producing with that little sleep/rest I wonder?
Don't forget the coke will keep them going.
@@ThisIsMTH heart attack.
And not even 9. They have to wake up before 9 so they can shower, brush their teeth, eat, etc. that’s way too much
Not good quality. Have worked with GS on a couple of projects. They are all clearly very intelligent, but they make ridiculous decisions and I'm convinced it's completely down to them operating on fumes. No human can sustain that and function at the higher end of performance.
I remember starting college with a goal to become a financial analyst/IB. I had to write a paper about the work life and I disliked it so much I switch my major to electrical engineering.
Best choice I ever made and now I’m planning to earn my masters
Same, but keep in mind there are other options outside of IB. There are so many jobs in the finance sector with decent pay and good WLB.
Really great video Afzal, I like that you alwyas give unbiased insight it’s very helpful. Thank you!
The two dislikes were from GS's CFO and CEO
😂
😂😂. Great video as always tho Afzal :)
😄👊🏽👍🏽
DJ D-Sol would never be hating on a former employee!!
@@nathanwoolley8479 Someone like you ft. Gia Koka is actually a banger 😂😂😂
I've recently discovered your page, and now I'm addicted!
100% right about people still applying, sadly just how it’ll stay, pay is very attractive which people look way beyond
"They get work at... stupid o'clock" 😂
Possibly the best thumbnail you’ve made haha!
Afzal coming in F A S T !! He does not sleep on these reactions!! Love the work ethic!!
In regard to the 80 hour week cap, I think it should be expected that during big deals there should be extra work put in, but surely they could set a finite yearly number of weeks for those occasions with a sort of "clock-in" system the firm signs off on before entering those periods.
Maybe turn over rates isn't a big deal in IB but practically every piece of organisational psychology literature states otherwise. I'm looking at the big-4 for a little more balance, and don't mind a 60-70 hour week, but we both know every 5 hours you stick onto the end of that limit really just has diminishing returns - especially over the long term.
Yah this is an industry where its expected to be a revolving door for the majority of juniors. The typical IB to PE life cycle is, you do your two years in investment banking, then get recruited to a private equity firm. In all honesty, a lot of the analysts already have their exit planned out midway through the second year. Meaning an offer on the table they've accepted and are keeping quiet until a few weeks before their 2 year anniversary. There are of course the associates and up who are doing this longer term but yah, i'd say thats gotta be less than half of the people who get into this business to begin with.
Love the videos! You should make one on how to make a good first impression when starting to work at a new firm, just an idea!
Another very insightful video. We need to get this bro to 100k subscribers!!
I waited for that Video!
Enjoy!
great that you did a video on the report - very valuable for people to realise how inhumane this working environment is.
Hey Afzal, could you comment on why printing pitch books and material in general is still such a big deal in 2021 when we have all the tech we need to make presentations entirely digital?
Great video as always ✌️
Thanks for this video !
Please, do a video about private banking, opportunities, things to consider etc.
Thank you !
Indeed a productive and informative video... It shows what is the difference between imagination and reality.
I really liked the video, very well done! What I didn't appreciate much, is the fact that it seems like you justified the bank. Even if the reasoning sounds logical, it musnt be that way. The thing is simple: working more than X hours is illegal, for a series of reasons. When something is illegal, it must be punished and changed. This is slavery and it is not much distant from serfdom
idk why but your voicing is so soothing 😂
trim coming patterned my guyyy👌🏾
Thanks for the video bro, much appreciated.
Never been this early in my life ha. Would you say the type of work junior analysts do in asset management is similar to work done in the IB division? Putting together pitch decks allbeit for a different purpose etc...
Quality over quantity. Work smart, not long. The mind and body are your vehicles to your happiness and wealth, do not destroy them to put money in someone else's bank account.
Afzal keeping it real as always
Guess I'll stay with Big Four and continue doing my 8 hours/day and fill the rest with side hustles.
Big Four, 8 hrs/day? REALLY? - not the case for me haha
Nani?!?
Nice joke, fresher
Depends where and what you’re doing at big 4. Some work much longer hours
cap
How did you find the culture at Goldman’s overall? Is it one of the reasons why you did leave? Maybe you could do a video about it?
Very good question. Definitely want to know that as well. Afzal just stayed there for 3 years I think...
@@EM-yj2fr I think he answered this pretty in-depth last year, can't remember the video name though
@@dsatish1997 It is relevant since the survey is about the culture at Goldman Sachs as a whole.
24:11 - I agree. I was a bit shocked when I saw this news story being circulated and gaining attention. Investment banking has been like this for years, the 95-hours a week thing is not a new concept. People who apply to IB know what they're signing up for.
It was more people who know nothing about the industry that were shocked by it and then it gained traction
Thanks, Afzal. Do you reckon your insights apply to MBA associates too? Also, according to your experience, do you think there are some differences in IBD culture between banks i.e. GS vs CS?
It’s been well known IB for the first 2 years average between 80 - 100 hours/week. That’s why you see it is a revolving door and you see most quit IB and left for something else. Am I correct?
Great video. On the point of being shouted at, there's no need for that. Thick skin not required. Managers need to treat people with respect, be fair, but firm. Clear instructions, strict discipline without raising the voice. Hire talent, not time wasters.
Thanks a lot for this video
Great video! Greets from Brazil
Were you surprised by anything you learned from this leaked deck? Has this put you off working in the world of investment banking?
Definitely want working hours to improve
Great video thank you 😉
Afzal is the big bonuses and salaries only in the cities like London or New York or is it the same as those cities .
No but for someone who is a nerd it's awesome.
@@Sai-tek Are you talking to me or afzal
Very good insight. I may be past my chance to enter high finance right after I earn my bachelor's, but after I earn my JD and hopefully MBA, this video will help remind me of what I will get into. Hoping to get into M&A or PE.
Same here. I have completed my LLB and I’m about completing my LLM too. Hoping to have a switch to M & A or Private Equity.
Such an insightful watch - thank you.
Question: in your experience, as most go to large IBs for experience and later move to Hedge Funds etc. is there not a more reasonable way to get the same level of experience without the unhealthy lifestyle?
Great video breakdown thank you - i thought CS stood for Corporate Sustainability / another acronym for CSR etc
Really appeciate your balanced approach when it comes to your videos - helps makes your videos higly valuable
Thanks!
Epic vid !👍
Could you please do a video on Entrepreneurship & what was your thought process going into it.
Thanks a bunch!!
I'm just laughing at the people who still decide to work in investment banking, strategic consulting etc. In my eyes, these people totally lost track of their lives and yet believe that they are the winners. The greatest achievement of modern society is the existence of free time and the freedom to do with it, what you want. And still there are people who throw all this away, who spent their best years in life working like slaves just to earn money they cannot spend due to lack of free time. And those are people who are clever enough to do jobs with way better conditions that are also payed well. But still they decide that money is more important than freedom, than a basic health level, than social contacts, than spending time with the people they love. It's ridiculous.
I'm sorry to tell you but........If you think it's just about money, you're a fool.
The greatest achievement of modern society is free-time ? Clearly not. The greatest achievement of the modern society is that, if you're willing to work hard enough, you can reach the very top of society. The meritocracy of work condition and social status is their reality. And they'll benefit from another standard of life than middle-class worker. It isnt just about the money. It is about being on top of most of the society. It is about becoming the people who implement global-change in the society. It is about being the subject of jealousy, yet admired through modern eyes. It is about status.
I mean the way I look at it is slave away from 22-26 and with raises and bonuses you can save approx 1 million dollars (Toronto). Money gives you the flexibility to choose what you want later on and IB gives good exit opportunities for less stressful jobs with that nest egg IB built for you in your back pocket.
Can you do a video on how to change from Investmentbanking (M&A) to Asset Management. What do you have to take in account? Would be very interesting!
I generally agree with your thoughts. On a broader note, how do you think this will affect IB recruiting vis-a-vis competing with other industries to attract graduates? Banks have been increasingly struggling with tech firms to attract high-calibre graduates. After all, why put yourself through this when you could work better hours, do more interesting work (although I appreciate that this is arguable), be at the centre of innovation, with just as good a brand name on your CV?
A lot of kids now would rather go to fintechs or startups.
Same here I was waiting for these videos
It is still puzzling to me why the investment banking divisions of old school banks have not embraced technology to the same extend as e.g. trading desks?
The real question remain, will the "investment banker" position still exist during the next decade? What happens when corporates get full access to same amount of tools and data as investment bankers? Is corporate access and not power points really the true value add for this industry?
How much would one's mental abilities decline with only 5 hours sleep over say several months? When I was a company commander in the Army I slept 4-5 hours Monday thru Thursday night and probably 5-7 hours typically on Friday thru Sunday night. When I left command my PT scores went up 20-30 points although I was working out only 2/3rd's as hard. I am pretty sure there was also some mental decline, as well as the physical decline, from only getting 30 hours sleep most weeks for over two years.
If we focus on sample size of survey its pretty small, it can be seen on one of the slides "13 first year analyst".
nd i think its new york one cause every IB in new york is shit hole for you well being
these hours are just possible as the analysts themselves are competitive. they could say no to tasks and cap their work at the hours mentioned in their contract, but there will be some other guy doing the work and they can be replaced. as long as there are people willing to do the work, why should the bank change its structures and conditions?
Can you do a comparison between prop. desk on IB and HF?
Got accepted into my MSc Investment Management which grad schemes would you recommend following this or would you suggest looking straight at hedge fund/ P Equity? Class vid as per!
A good software engineer can achieve the same compensation and work a flexible 8 hour day. I can't imagine putting up with working conditions like these.
Hey Afzal. Great video as always.
I just have a small question concerning your courses. It seems they aren't free, as I need to buy premium.
just a question sir, are invesment bankers and CFA's the same thing?
And if not, please could you explain the differences. Thank you sir.
Wow... it amazes me that humans are able to do that
Not without sacrificing something in return.
@@jethrojacinto2798 Even so, it's remarkable. If my life literally depended upon it, I can tell you that I wouldn't be able to work such hours, or even close to it, for more than a couple of weeks.
@@decus9544 same here man.
Nice video, do one on corporate banking, much better hours and better bonuses than AM at the right bank. Also corporate rather than commercial, I see the distinction as Commerical being for SME's and corporate for blue chips - much different game.
You mean Citi, JPM and BoA.
I have been watching your videos all day, you cover such interesting topics. I work in big tech and the culture it's very similar as in the investment industry, the good and the bad. Have you ever seen the documentary The Men Who Stole The World about the traders, bankers and investment execs during the 2008 crisis? Think it would make a great 'Ex-Goldman Sachs REACTS' video.
would you recommend working in assets management or investment banking, also what are the main differences in the jobs, like what do they do?
Where does wealth management division fit into the front office, back office, buy side, sell side matrix?
Interesting that it says "13 respondents". I wonder if the numbers would remain the same if they had more respondents?
I'm genuinely unsure how anyone even could work those hours, I think I'd be physically unable to do so, personally.
Big Salary, caffeine and cocaine
@@djStens 😂😂
Great video! How are the hours for analysts in wealth management? I've heard they are much better?
Thanks! Similarly to AM.
Hello I have a question Where in IB do you make the most cash (forget the work life balance) S&T or IBD ???
I am working in investment banking in Canada. ~70 hours a week average (some weeks as bad as GS) but pay is ~C$170k / year. Also NO ONE can yell or swear at you, just generally frowned upon (even most senior people are courteous / polite / professional).
are you at BB or boutique?
Is it because Canadians are nicer people in general?
@@luigardner5843 Big 5 canadian bank
Maybe it's just me, but I don't have any sympathy for anyone in the investment banking industry. The compensation for the long hours is the high pay , simple. I chose not to apply for investment banking as I value work life balance. You can't have your cake and eat it
Well when you break that high pay into $/hr. You would rather prefer working 2 different jobs. One where you gotta go make the cheddar. 2nd, where you can do something you love
Hey, can anyone recommend a video that explains the exact differences between asset management and investment banking?
the biggest thing on this survey which isn't being covered (as it's not the headline) is the percentage of analysts who say they have experienced abuse. i'd be surprised if no one internally reaches out to them on this...
Is it possible and/or common for asset management workers to switch to PE or Hedge Funds?
How many hours in am at gs on average? You just said its hugely diffrent but you said no number per week
As soon as I saw the article I started waiting for your video 😂😂
Sees Afzal Hussein video
Instant click
Haha! Thanks!
This is exactly what Peter Thiel related in his Zero to One. People compete to get into elite school, then compete to get into these "suppose elite jobs"... then absolutely had no idea if that is what they want. It happened to him and he got out of his lawyer job feeling the same way as these analyst . This is the TRAP!
Well what you just said is literally for anything in life. Whether going to the NBA where you play elite team and compete for a spot is the same as your job. If your uncomfortable being in such a competitive surrounding or you just don’t enjoy your job, then your not doing a career you love.
Lol, I work in IB in Sweden and I do not work more than 9 hours a day. Yet we get the job done.
And weekend (Saturday and Sunday) is time off obviously
You're probably working on smaller deals at a regional boutique
@@wuuw1 no he probably works in a country with stronger labor laws and ethic culture
@@fxproxxt7149 Hi am from Ghana, I want to do my Masters in Finance in sweden. How difficult is it to get IB or Asset Management job after completion as a foreigner in Sweden
@@emajossch4442 and what is Sweden’s position worldwide when it comes to being a strong force in IB?
These places are horrific on terms of work demands.
Seriously this video makes me cry and laugh at the same time. Working in health care for years and hearing the same bullying, and work politics from competition. This is nothing new. If you hate it so much, and it was horrifying then complain to human Resource or even get a lawyer. Reading complaints online is like opening a can of worms, it defame a company sure, then what?
19:15 "Junior bankers should not be expected to do any work after 9pm friday/saturday"
Senior bankers: :/
Jusus Crist!
I'm a Insurance Agent in Italy , and I work 75-80 Hours a week , because this Is my First Years in the Business , and I think that i doing the impossible but when i look this numers i was impress.
😳😶😶☹️😳
Thank you a lot❤❤❤❤
Even if it is 100K a year. I’d rather pass and enjoy my life.
“Goldman Slaves” more like Mordern day slavery.
I wonder how much the business itself rakes in as a result of these workers hard work.
Absolute bollox.
People go into it knowingly though. They go, do it for a few years, and then leave with a shining CV and savings account.
@@jaideepchahal491 not disputing your response whatsoever. I’d rather pass and enjoy my life.
what do you think of the recent forced liquidation of Archegos
Well, the average employee make 350k a year though.
Supply and demand people, as long as workers want the job they can do what they want
How is possible that corporations like GS are above the labour laws ?, i'm always asking to myself...
Would you say the workload in nyc is more or equal to london
Just out of curiosity, at around 16:30 you mention that people don’t actually work 18h straight but actually have an afternoon gap where they just loiter about. if individuals from the IB division have a lot of time when they’re just waiting for different regions to deliver instructions, why don’t they take that time off to rest?
Face time culture. They don't want to be seen as 'slacking'. Especially when people around them and their seniors might be working.
They should take that idle time to rub one out and take a nap.
Talk about Equity Research too. I feel left out 😥
for what you put in, is what you get out determination perseverance and resilience allow you reach your goal and objectives in life
fresh trim!
Shout-out to the wifey 💪🏽💪🏽
I don't have time to spend so much at work, i have a lot of other things to take care of like work out, play csgo and play golf and hang out with friends. But you that work so many hours at a bank is doing good, it is an important work you do and you are important!
what would an accountants salary be like at Goldman?
Why havent you got on to asset management, will you go in to it?