I enjoyed your vid and the discussion on your personal experiences with the outboards. I concur about the Honda. Mine is a 75hp, done 950 hours and 18 years old and still going very well. I think maintenance is the key to longevity with any boating product. Cheers Graeme
I’ve just replaced my 97 Mercury 175 hp efi two stroke with the latest Mercury 175 pro xs four stroke. Hole shot is on par heaps of mid range grunt and top speed is practically on par. I used to get 62 mph I’m getting 61 mph now, some adjustments to engine height will fix that for me I feel. The new one is whisper quiet and smooth as, the only thing I’ll say you can’t beat the smell of a two stroke.
Good yarn. Have the Suzuki 200 hp V6 on my 670HT and couldn't be happier. Had a Yamaha on my last boat and hated it. Was a real pig to start but I probably got a bad one, it happens, I know many people who own Yamaha are more than happy with them. Cheers
There's a guy here in America that has a UA-cam channel and he charter fishes in the Gulf Coast. He has a Suzuki 175 that he sold to a buddy that now has 9,000 hours on it and it has never been touched other than routine maintenance. I think that's pretty amazing. Just figured I'd throw that in there because you were talking about the hours that your buddy gets out of his Yamaha. Nothing against Yamaha. I'm about to buy a boat and I'm going to Suzuki for many reasons but the main reason is here in America you can get a six year parts and labor full warranty. Thank you 👍
I have similar history of motors and totally agree. The 4 strokes much easier to control at fast troll etec want to take off too touchy and all the issues you mention. The only comment I would add the Honda such as 115 can be very heavy as it’s a car engine and sticks out a lot from transom so you can’t trim it out much and turn tight as the prop is too far from the smooth wake of boat.
Mate would strongly agree I have owned Yamaha all my life and I had this 6 horse power 2stroke and it was loud, smelly and was disgusting that motor lasted me about 20year and then we need to do a full rebuild and didn’t do it. My dad has a 90 Yamaha 2stroke and it is really loud and smelly I now own a mercury 6 two stroke and looking on it now my Yamaha was louder then the mercury. The mercury is a 2stroke and barely uses any fuel but when you haven’t started it in a while it becomes really smoky.
yep I've owned optimax, G1 and G2 etecs. would never buy or own again. the noise alone even on the clean tech 2 strokes drives you absolutely insane especially on long days trolling offshore. and even the clean techs still have oil smell which makes you sick. they are a huge upgrade over the old dogs, but there is a reason why they are still alot cheaper than 4 strokes as they aren't in the same league.
i had a 75 etec on my last boat i done 2000 hours on it i never had a problem with it or the smell. i used the evenrude oil . my father in law has a suzuki 115 on his boat its very quiet but to me it eats fuel
Yeah long days off shore trolling you will definitely smell it. But anyway, they are still good engines. They were also better value. Modern 4 strokes are so expensive these days
@@BaitBallin ive a inboard oil burner now but im thinking about a new boat . the ones im looking at are outboards been looking at the price of them bit of a shock lol
I was at a boat show here in America and I was talking to the Sea tow guys I asked them what's the number one brand that you tow in? They said Mercury. I asked them what brand do they run they said Suzuki. That kind of tells you the story doesn't it? Thank you
With regards to the Suzuki's, have you ever had an electronic shift control failure? I've experienced it once on a DF150, where the engine basically wouldn't shift. I've also experienced problems when changing from forward to astern too quickly (even at slow/no speed), where the outboard will simply shutdown. In both instances the only solution has been to cycle the battery isolators, to enable a restart. The engines themselves have been pretty much bulletproof, but the electronic systems have let us down several times.
That 2stroke smell is like perfume to me!!! But I'm a snowmobiler.... have you tried different brands of oil! Clotz would make some people sick....from Wyoming USA 🔫🤠🇺🇸p.s stay safe
Evinrude claimed the lowest carbon monoxide emissions. This may be true, but they made no such claim for hydrocarbon emissions, which is what causes the smell (carbon monoxide is odorless). More broadly, 2 strokes direct injected or not cannot help but blow some oil out the exhaust: every time the piston and rings move past the exhaust port some oil will be scraped off and deposited in the exhaust tract, where it will be later blown out by the exhaust gases. This even happens to large uniflow 2 strokes that do not have total-loss oiling. In the case of the E-tec, total loss oiling is used and thus oil mist still enters the space above the piston via the transfer ports. As with any port controlled 2 stroke some of the air from the transfers will short circuit into the exhaust, making the problem even worse. So while they're a huge amount cleaner than a carbed 2 stroke, DI 2 strokes will probably never have less HC emissions than a 4 stroke.
Well there you go I've learnt something today. Yep every DFI 2 burner I've owned still smelled pretty bad and made most onboard sick from the smell and fumes. Infact most people, most trips. Long days trolling weren't good
The price of mixing oil now days aint even worth it... id rather just throw gas in my bike and rebuild the whole shabang in a few years. Idec 🤣 I dont have time to tinker on things like that!
I have an E-Tec and you dont have a clue ! One of the best running low maintenace engines i have ever owned ! Gets a boat up on a plane when its under load fast !
They are noisy, smelly, rubbish. Better than an old carby dog sure, but nothing compared to modern 4 strokes. Trolling long days with an etec or optimax on the back and you need ear plugs.
@@BaitBallin Your using an engine for 1 thing and think that applies to all. It doesnt.Very few people troll all day. Boats are used for more than just trolling. 2 strokes are light weight good for people who need portability. They have much more power to lift heavy loads as in dive equipment. They have much lower maintenance in cold climates as for example hunters in Alaska or as emergency deck boats. They are way more reliable, they can set around for years and fire right up and go.You troll and base a motor on that alone and i dont need any ear plugs when trolling with an E-Tec.
Like I said, they are good until you get better. I have thousands of hours on water using DFI 2s and I did like them, but they have simply been surpassed by better technology. I never had literally a single issue with them, but just wouldn't buy again with better options on the market....
That's not right mate it's the quality of the 2 stroke oil that gives you the stink if you use cheap or cheaper shit they can stink and are terrible and the kind of two stroke oil you use matters also mineral, semi-synthetic, fully synthetic, castor bean oil
tbh I always used the best oil in all 3 of my DI 2 strokes, don't get me wrong they were nothing like the old 2 strokes but definitely the smell was there. they were good engines, all of them. mainly the noise that put me off the most. was hoping the G2 would be quieter but was quite shocked at noise levels
mindless consumers are who prefer four strokes. They just adhere to what the dealership tries to sell. Which of course is the more expensive and more maintenance intensive 4t. Many people prefer two strokes. If they didn't, why would the aftermarket be so large. Quicksilver makes a killing selling reman heads because so many people still want two stroke. Fundamentally, a two stroke will always perform better.
performance excellent, noise levels and buying oil..... no good. I did like and enjoy both my etecs and optimax, the 4 stroke is simply better. thats all. the cost increase though is VERY hard to justify yes
@@BaitBallin Your mistaken. When you have a boat under load a 2 stroke can get it up on a plane where as a 4 stroke cannot without a kicker ! Also 4 strokes suck in cold enviroments
@@muddyriverdogz The boat doesn't know what kind of engine is pushing it. 2T, 4T, electric motor, gas turbine, whatever. If you've got the same weight, same power at the same RPM with the same prop you'll get the same performance. Now differences in torque curve between 2T and 4T engines, and what that might mean for your power rating and/or prop selection, that's a whole other discussion. Broadly 2Ts seem to have more midrange torque which is of course an advantage for getting up on the plane. A 4T could match this with a finer pitch prop or shorter gear ratio, at the cost of top speed of course... or you could buy a 4T with say 30% more power, and throttle back more for cruise, which would certainly save you some fuel vs running a smaller 2T or 4T hard all the time, if you can tolerate the extra weight and cost. Annoyingly, the manufacturers don't usually publish torque vs RPM data (or BSFC vs rpm data, which is correlated with torque), so we're kind of guessing when it comes to model-to-model comparisons. A more modern 4T with variable valve timing would probably be better at matching the 2T's midrange torque, for example.
My comment about hit and miss. I was referring to reliability. Some ppl find it very reliable other calms from day one they have issue. For reliability Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha are up there.
hey I need to drive my boat from Canberra to Sydney to get some work done.but providing im not on the road could do it. let me get back to you as they haven't confirmed my booking yet.
@@BaitBallin thats what think because BRP is a huge company and the kown that 2 stroke engines a thing of the past in the market so why not direct all your available funds in to something if it come out the will corner the market
totally agree. they are too big and cutting edge to just stop all together. G2, although a 2 strokes still in many ways is a very impressive engine. torque and fuel economy are ludicrous
I enjoyed your vid and the discussion on your personal experiences with the outboards. I concur about the Honda. Mine is a 75hp, done 950 hours and 18 years old and still going very well. I think maintenance is the key to longevity with any boating product. Cheers Graeme
yes totally agree! look after these outboards and they defiantly serve you well indeed
Merc XS Pro (optimax) is probably one of my fav 2 strokes though. And parts galore for them.
Yeah they are a bit of a weapon for sure
I’ve just replaced my 97 Mercury 175 hp efi two stroke with the latest Mercury 175 pro xs four stroke. Hole shot is on par heaps of mid range grunt and top speed is practically on par. I used to get 62 mph I’m getting 61 mph now, some adjustments to engine height will fix that for me I feel. The new one is whisper quiet and smooth as, the only thing I’ll say you can’t beat the smell of a two stroke.
Good yarn.
Have the Suzuki 200 hp V6 on my 670HT and couldn't be happier. Had a Yamaha on my last boat and hated it. Was a real pig to start but I probably got a bad one, it happens, I know many people who own Yamaha are more than happy with them.
Cheers
how interesting! yes this Suzuki has exceeded my expectations. especially in the torque factor after owning so many 2 strokes...
There's a guy here in America that has a UA-cam channel and he charter fishes in the Gulf Coast. He has a Suzuki 175 that he sold to a buddy that now has 9,000 hours on it and it has never been touched other than routine maintenance. I think that's pretty amazing. Just figured I'd throw that in there because you were talking about the hours that your buddy gets out of his Yamaha. Nothing against Yamaha. I'm about to buy a boat and I'm going to Suzuki for many reasons but the main reason is here in America you can get a six year parts and labor full warranty. Thank you 👍
Wow that's amazing! Yeah love the Suzuki's..... Best value for money top quality 4s on the market.
@@BaitBallin Yes definitely. I think the bigger V6's are just as good too. Thank you 👍
I have a 2020 Suzuki 150 hp on my 645 extreme gk first Suzuki done 150 hrs so far and like you I love it
Down under kiwi
Yeah sweet engine....
I have similar history of motors and totally agree. The 4 strokes much easier to control at fast troll etec want to take off too touchy and all the issues you mention. The only comment I would add the Honda such as 115 can be very heavy as it’s a car engine and sticks out a lot from transom so you can’t trim it out much and turn tight as the prop is too far from the smooth wake of boat.
yes totally agree...
power to weight ratio on some Honda's is terrible!
Thank you very much for your explanation
The Etec was ahead of it’s time. Unfortunately People wanted 4 strokes and sadly Evinrude tanked.
Yeah bit of a bummer. I've had several dfi's, pretty good overall
Mate would strongly agree I have owned Yamaha all my life and I had this 6 horse power 2stroke and it was loud, smelly and was disgusting that motor lasted me about 20year and then we need to do a full rebuild and didn’t do it. My dad has a 90 Yamaha 2stroke and it is really loud and smelly I now own a mercury 6 two stroke and looking on it now my Yamaha was louder then the mercury. The mercury is a 2stroke and barely uses any fuel but when you haven’t started it in a while it becomes really smoky.
yep I've owned optimax, G1 and G2 etecs. would never buy or own again. the noise alone even on the clean tech 2 strokes drives you absolutely insane especially on long days trolling offshore. and even the clean techs still have oil smell which makes you sick.
they are a huge upgrade over the old dogs, but there is a reason why they are still alot cheaper than 4 strokes as they aren't in the same league.
@@BaitBallin yeah
i had a 75 etec on my last boat i done 2000 hours on it i never had a problem with it or the smell. i used the evenrude oil . my father in law has a suzuki 115 on his boat its very quiet but to me it eats fuel
Yeah long days off shore trolling you will definitely smell it. But anyway, they are still good engines. They were also better value. Modern 4 strokes are so expensive these days
@@BaitBallin ive a inboard oil burner now but im thinking about a new boat . the ones im looking at are outboards been looking at the price of them bit of a shock lol
Yep the prices are now absolutely insane!!!
Don't worry I will be hit also in about 2 years when I upgrade.
I was at a boat show here in America and I was talking to the Sea tow guys I asked them what's the number one brand that you tow in? They said Mercury. I asked them what brand do they run they said Suzuki. That kind of tells you the story doesn't it? Thank you
Yeah majority of marine rescue boats here all run Suzuki's.
@@BaitBallin If anybody would know what to run it would be them. Thank you
Suzuki ♥️
With regards to the Suzuki's, have you ever had an electronic shift control failure? I've experienced it once on a DF150, where the engine basically wouldn't shift. I've also experienced problems when changing from forward to astern too quickly (even at slow/no speed), where the outboard will simply shutdown. In both instances the only solution has been to cycle the battery isolators, to enable a restart. The engines themselves have been pretty much bulletproof, but the electronic systems have let us down several times.
hmm how interesting! no haven't had that issue at all yet to be honest. will stay aware though thanks
Klotz smells awesome
That 2stroke smell is like perfume to me!!! But I'm a snowmobiler.... have you tried different brands of oil! Clotz would make some people sick....from Wyoming USA 🔫🤠🇺🇸p.s stay safe
haha yeah I do love 2 strokes at full noise! but long long days trolling offshore it really gets to you
thanks
Evinrude claimed the lowest carbon monoxide emissions. This may be true, but they made no such claim for hydrocarbon emissions, which is what causes the smell (carbon monoxide is odorless). More broadly, 2 strokes direct injected or not cannot help but blow some oil out the exhaust: every time the piston and rings move past the exhaust port some oil will be scraped off and deposited in the exhaust tract, where it will be later blown out by the exhaust gases. This even happens to large uniflow 2 strokes that do not have total-loss oiling. In the case of the E-tec, total loss oiling is used and thus oil mist still enters the space above the piston via the transfer ports. As with any port controlled 2 stroke some of the air from the transfers will short circuit into the exhaust, making the problem even worse.
So while they're a huge amount cleaner than a carbed 2 stroke, DI 2 strokes will probably never have less HC emissions than a 4 stroke.
Well there you go I've learnt something today. Yep every DFI 2 burner I've owned still smelled pretty bad and made most onboard sick from the smell and fumes. Infact most people, most trips. Long days trolling weren't good
The price of mixing oil now days aint even worth it... id rather just throw gas in my bike and rebuild the whole shabang in a few years. Idec 🤣 I dont have time to tinker on things like that!
Yep absolutely agree
I have an E-Tec and you dont have a clue ! One of the best running low maintenace engines i have ever owned ! Gets a boat up on a plane when its under load fast !
I've had two of them G1 and g2. You think they are good until you get something way better... So think again on who doesn't have a clue.
They are noisy, smelly, rubbish. Better than an old carby dog sure, but nothing compared to modern 4 strokes. Trolling long days with an etec or optimax on the back and you need ear plugs.
@@BaitBallin Your using an engine for 1 thing and think that applies to all. It doesnt.Very few people troll all day. Boats are used for more than just trolling. 2 strokes are light weight good for people who need portability. They have much more power to lift heavy loads as in dive equipment. They have much lower maintenance in cold climates as for example hunters in Alaska or as emergency deck boats. They are way more reliable, they can set around for years and fire right up and go.You troll and base a motor on that alone and i dont need any ear plugs when trolling with an E-Tec.
@@BaitBallin We will see if that 4 stroke is still running 30 plus years from now like those 2 strokes were.
Like I said, they are good until you get better. I have thousands of hours on water using DFI 2s and I did like them, but they have simply been surpassed by better technology. I never had literally a single issue with them, but just wouldn't buy again with better options on the market....
That's not right mate it's the quality of the 2 stroke oil that gives you the stink if you use cheap or cheaper shit they can stink and are terrible and the kind of two stroke oil you use matters also mineral, semi-synthetic, fully synthetic, castor bean oil
tbh I always used the best oil in all 3 of my DI 2 strokes, don't get me wrong they were nothing like the old 2 strokes but definitely the smell was there. they were good engines, all of them. mainly the noise that put me off the most. was hoping the G2 would be quieter but was quite shocked at noise levels
No replacement for two stroke.
no replacement as nobody wants them.....sadly they just don't compare anymore. the DFIs are substantially better though than the older models
mindless consumers are who prefer four strokes. They just adhere to what the dealership tries to sell. Which of course is the more expensive and more maintenance intensive 4t. Many people prefer two strokes. If they didn't, why would the aftermarket be so large. Quicksilver makes a killing selling reman heads because so many people still want two stroke. Fundamentally, a two stroke will always perform better.
performance excellent, noise levels and buying oil..... no good.
I did like and enjoy both my etecs and optimax, the 4 stroke is simply better. thats all.
the cost increase though is VERY hard to justify yes
@@BaitBallin Your mistaken. When you have a boat under load a 2 stroke can get it up on a plane where as a 4 stroke cannot without a kicker ! Also 4 strokes suck in cold enviroments
@@muddyriverdogz The boat doesn't know what kind of engine is pushing it. 2T, 4T, electric motor, gas turbine, whatever. If you've got the same weight, same power at the same RPM with the same prop you'll get the same performance.
Now differences in torque curve between 2T and 4T engines, and what that might mean for your power rating and/or prop selection, that's a whole other discussion. Broadly 2Ts seem to have more midrange torque which is of course an advantage for getting up on the plane. A 4T could match this with a finer pitch prop or shorter gear ratio, at the cost of top speed of course... or you could buy a 4T with say 30% more power, and throttle back more for cruise, which would certainly save you some fuel vs running a smaller 2T or 4T hard all the time, if you can tolerate the extra weight and cost.
Annoyingly, the manufacturers don't usually publish torque vs RPM data (or BSFC vs rpm data, which is correlated with torque), so we're kind of guessing when it comes to model-to-model comparisons. A more modern 4T with variable valve timing would probably be better at matching the 2T's midrange torque, for example.
Etec is a hit and miss. QC issue.
no matter how low the emmiskons are, the smell and noise are pretty bad. I'd never go back
@@BaitBallin two strokes the smell and noise are there. Ppl say etec no smell and low noise, I find that hard to believe. 2 stks rip!
My comment about hit and miss. I was referring to reliability. Some ppl find it very reliable other calms from day one they have issue. For reliability Honda, Suzuki and Yamaha are up there.
etec G2 was insanely noisy!!!!
literally have me a migraine every long day offshore.
@@BaitBallin BS !
Hi mate I’m thinking next Saturday live stream can u com on I’d love the I’m put about 1pm
hey I need to drive my boat from Canberra to Sydney to get some work done.but providing im not on the road could do it. let me get back to you as they haven't confirmed my booking yet.
i reckon evinrude has stop making outboards so they can concentrate on bringing out the first electric inboard boat engine
you might be right! this was a huge shock.
@@BaitBallin thats what think because BRP is a huge company and the kown that 2 stroke engines a thing of the past in the market so why not direct all your available funds in to something if it come out the will corner the market
totally agree. they are too big and cutting edge to just stop all together. G2, although a 2 strokes still in many ways is a very impressive engine.
torque and fuel economy are ludicrous
Everything that was built well they are not producing anymore. Everything has to be cheap junk now.