I find myself adding your videos like this to my favorites in the event that I ever build another frame. I aligned my first frame by anchoring the bottom bracket to the draw bar of one of our farm tractors, then used a 20 ton jack to bend everything straight. It was very crude, but I can ride with no hands, so it must not be too bad. Thanks for all of the excellent videos.
Your videos make me super happy dude. I know you had some struggles (from your new years vid) but just know we all appreciate you and your videos. They're a lot of fun, very enjoyable and I consider them evergreen, always re-watchable. :)
Great video! Good to see the progress. One area that can be an issue in aligning a frame is the rear wheel. Frames can look aligned until you get the rear wheel in the drop outs. Its good to check with a rear wheel and make sure there is no twist. The wheel will be closer to one of the seat stays if twist occurs. I have found that after you cold set the frame, the seat stays and drop outs can fall out of plane. Torsional tolerance can be a pain! Thanks again for the awesome video.
+Jared Morris Awesome advice Jared! Thanks so much, its truly appreciated. For this frame I don't have a wheel to test it out lol. But for the frame I'm currently building I have a wheel and will heed your advice. Cheers!
Very informative video! Something interesting I've noticed on this subject, a LOT of very high end big name production frames (mainly carbon fiber) are further out of alignment than you would think! On a side note, thanks for adding my frame build videos to your playlist section! I really appreciate it! Keep up the awesome videos!!!
+Superdude Superdude Maybe because I hated school as a kid. Always thought.. theres a better way. :O hahaaa. I was always a "D" student back in those day. But as a student of LIFE, I always work hard towards A's.
Hello Pithy!! My friend, flat4hemi, hipped me to your videos a couple months ago and I am HOOKED!! I've watched most of the series at least twice. I've got your post notifications going so I don't miss anything new and of course, I am a subscriber. I tell everyone I know who might be interested in bicycle frame building to check out your channel!! I love your enthusiasm. And I love your honesty. And frankly, I am envious of your video production!! What software do you use in post production to put text and graphics over your video images? To be honest, you have motivated me to start planning a bike fixture build of my own and I am planning to build a couple road and single speed frames for myself, and my family and friends. You are an inspiration. DO NOT GIVE UP!! You have a pretty serious, hard-core loyal following!! I can't wait for the next installment!!
+Dan Garcia You're words have inspired me! I'm so glad to have viewers like you Dan :) Good luck with your future builds. You have a very lucky family to be getting all those custom bikes! For video editing I use Adobe Premiere. And for the overlay diagrams I use Photoshop. If you set up a transparent layer file (psd) and save it from Photoshop. You can simply drag the file into Premiere and the software will let you choose which layers to import. Good luck!
Fantastic stuff. Exactly the kind of info I have been looking for. I was involved in a car accident whilst on my titanium bike. The bike and I came out of it not too bad but after further inspection, the frame alignment as all over the place. I managed to realign the rear triangle but then found my head tube was twisted. I have tried doing this with a standard vice, blocks of wood etc but think I'll be making an attempt at making an alignment table. And I know titanium is s bit risky compared to steel :(
Pithy, your videos are great! I noticed a road frame in the jig. Is that # 2 ? One suggestion, I think using a small scissor jack would be a little more controlled for cold-setting.
+Dilligaf Dan Didn't think of a jack.. But I must say, 'feeling' it to me goes a long way. To actually feel the pressure can be useful. The frame in the jig is the same one I've been working on in all my videos. The MTB frame in the alignment video is a frame I welded in a class a couple years ago. Basically, the frame in the jig is my second. But I consider it my first because I did every step on my own. The MTB frame from the class was mostly done for me, I just welded it. Cheers!
like your video's! All the steps in your series make perfect sense to me now. Where did you initialliy learn what wich steps to take and what tools to buy etc..
+Ruben de Bruijne I think the most valuable thing I did before making the jump into frame building was taking a machining class. It exposed me to many tools and sparked a flame in my mind for all the possibilities. From there, it was really just a matter of lots of googling and google image. Thanks for watching
when setting the head tube by putting a bar through it. it would probably be safer if you turned a thick walled sleeve for the bar to fit in to avoid distortion which will alter how well you'll be able to put the headset in later, or if you have an old headset press that in then put the bar inside that
Hi , I opened the back wheel , by mistake I've pressed the dropout of chain stay and seat stay little closer n now it is not coming on exact alignment , what I need to do please
+Farlig66 I wonder about this too. Logic tells me that all frames must go out of alignment at some point.. Chromoly has a tendancy to flex back. It's when the flex goes past the point of flexing back..
+Farlig66 It's not that easy to set into alignment, if you've ever done it yourself you'll probably be using a 4-5ft bar and putting a good % of your body weight into it. Once a wheel is installed the frame becomes stiffer too (other than the head tube) but that only will go out of alignment from an impact (getting hit by a car / hitting a wall)
I'm not a frame builder by any means, but having worked in a bike shop years ago, I can say I've seen plenty of bent frames (especially vintage road frames). The reality is the frame needs to be really far out of alignment before most people would ever know there was a problem. Usually I noticed alignment issues just by removing/installing rear wheels and then putting an alignment gauge up to the frame (and keep in mind those chincy Park Tool frame alignment gauges are no where near precise; they're like a tape measure compared to a caliper).
How much of the misalignment is due to inaccuracy in the jigs that positioned things for welding and how much is due to the distorting effect of welding?
+Mark Holm I'm guessing its a bit of both. This being my first welded frame, I know how much heat I put into it and it was a LOT. As for the fixturing of this frame, I don't know much about what it went through. I was there for the main triangle fixturing. But not for the dropouts. It will be interesting to see the results for my current frame (the one you can see in the frame jig).
If the frame can be aligned so easily when the steel is cold, would riding it possibly put it out of alignment. Also could the stresses he put on the frame relax on a hot day and put it out of alignment? Not judging just genuinely interested. It looks to me to be incredibly difficult to fix one problem with creating another.
Its difficult to gauge but I'm really putting a lot of force on the tubes to get them aligned. This is not recommended and it's best to align while in tack weld stage. But to answer your question, yes the frame can go out of alignment while riding. I don't know about weather changes though. But to put your mind at ease.. a little misalignment isn't bad and most folks don't even notice or 'feel' a lot of misalignment. :) That said, getting it as close to aligned as possible is a mark of a good builder!
Good stuff, a handy piece of kit. Out of curiosity is the bench grinder in the background a Dewalt? What model is it as i'm on the lookout for a new one and it looks a substantial size.
+Dinxsy Yes it is a Dewalt. And its too big! I think its an 8". A 6" will do all the jobs I need. I should have researched more.. I can't recommend it because it vibrates a lot. But maybe I just don't know how to balance a griding wheel..
Pithy Bikes Maybe something to consider then, my last one used to vibrate loads and it was tiny. This website has some inside to why there's vibrations, woodworking website but the grinder principles are the same Could be the washers they mention, you could make new ones. www.highlandwoodworking.com/Balancinggrinderwheels.aspx
I like your quest for precision however this attempt to align the frame raises a certain question in my mind. If you can so easily bend the frame into alignment what happens when you mount a seat and wheels and gears and then mount the bike and ride off into the vast unknown. It seems to me that the forces the frame experiences are at least as great as the force that you exerted when aligning the frame. Am I wrong? An example of great force while riding would be going around a curve at about 20 mph (or greater) and hitting a bump while you are in the turn.
+Adam Pierce I think you're right. But I'm not experienced so I don't know the answer. It seems to me that a frame could go just as easily out of alignment as it is to go into alignment. I know that when I'm riding my current commuter bike I sometimes exert pressure on the bars and at times produce a twist. I wonder if my commuter bike is out of alignment simply because of this. Or does it just flex right back.
+Pithy Bikes I took the frame building 101 class at UFV a couple years back, and the instructor (Paul Brodie) had us align our frame multiple times through the build. I brazed my frame (not TIG) but the frame was on the alignment table three times while doing the front triangle. First time was after it came out of the jig after tack welding (the BB/DT welding was done before the jig), the second time was after HT/TT brazing, and the third was after HT/DT and ST/TT brazing. Each time the frame was stiffer than before; after tacking it could be moved with one finger, and after the final set of welds I was using all my weight and bouncing on it multiple times to move the alignment by only a single mm. It was scary at first, but it was a huge confidence builder in the strength of the frame and its ability to take abuse. SS/CS alignment was done a couple times, after first welds and after adding the bridges. It was amazing just how much stronger the rear triangles became after the bridges were installed, and I know that adding the wheel makes it even stronger. I'm sure a serious wreck would mess up the alignment, and I'm sure that after a long period of hard riding things will drift a bit, but I suspect that it would take quite a bit of drift for it to be noticeable.
Nice tutorial in relation to the top and down tube being irrelevant when aligning the head and seat tube. You need to have a word with Paul Bridge. His alignment tutorial made no sense at all. I've been a builder for 50 years in Australia. Well done Mr Piithy
I find myself adding your videos like this to my favorites in the event that I ever build another frame. I aligned my first frame by anchoring the bottom bracket to the draw bar of one of our farm tractors, then used a 20 ton jack to bend everything straight. It was very crude, but I can ride with no hands, so it must not be too bad. Thanks for all of the excellent videos.
+RiverbendBicycles Ha! Excellent! I love making use of what you got. :)
in such stuff there is no beginner's luck....
you did precise job and all this correct measurements are your reward
Thanks! But it should be noted that I didn't setup this frame. I only welded it. The track frame you can see in my videos is 100% my doing. :)
I'd never seen this process done before. Fantastic.
+C Puzz I never saw it either! :D
Your videos make me super happy dude. I know you had some struggles (from your new years vid) but just know we all appreciate you and your videos. They're a lot of fun, very enjoyable and I consider them evergreen, always re-watchable. :)
+scrubby4130 Thanks man, your words are super kind and inspiring for me to keep it going :)
Well deserved my friend. :)
Thanks so much for returning! Great to see you back.
+Morgan Cole Feels good to be back :)
Your videos give me lots of inspiration to stop procrastinating, get out into the garage, and make sh*t! Great job.
+thechosendude Do it! Just do it! Don't let your dreams be dreams. Yesterday, you said tomorrow. ... :D
Your way looks like a good way. I also liked Paul Brody’s alignment jig.
Great video. Looking forward to the finished product.
+GabrielBricci me too!
Man, this is just pure gold!
thank you so much
cheerz from Italy
+Doppiovetro The pleasure is mine :)
Welcome back, you were missed!
+Christopher Beasley :D
Great video! Good to see the progress. One area that can be an issue in aligning a frame is the rear wheel. Frames can look aligned until you get the rear wheel in the drop outs. Its good to check with a rear wheel and make sure there is no twist. The wheel will be closer to one of the seat stays if twist occurs. I have found that after you cold set the frame, the seat stays and drop outs can fall out of plane. Torsional tolerance can be a pain! Thanks again for the awesome video.
+Jared Morris Awesome advice Jared! Thanks so much, its truly appreciated. For this frame I don't have a wheel to test it out lol. But for the frame I'm currently building I have a wheel and will heed your advice. Cheers!
I love all your jigs and fixtures. Nice work ;)
+Jess Neal Thanks man!
Very informative video! Something interesting I've noticed on this subject, a LOT of very high end big name production frames (mainly carbon fiber) are further out of alignment than you would think! On a side note, thanks for adding my frame build videos to your playlist section! I really appreciate it!
Keep up the awesome videos!!!
+Joey Mesa Yeah man :) Spread the love! I'm thrilled when people like yourself make frame/bike building videos!
Detailed education has never been more entertaining.
+Superdude Superdude Maybe because I hated school as a kid. Always thought.. theres a better way. :O hahaaa. I was always a "D" student back in those day. But as a student of LIFE, I always work hard towards A's.
+Pithy Bikes times are a changin' may man and many are seeing things the way you do now.
Welcome back man!!
Nice vid (as always)
Keep doing this also for all of us! :)
+Pietro Bughetto Thanks! Good to be back.
Hello Pithy!! My friend, flat4hemi, hipped me to your videos a couple months ago and I am HOOKED!! I've watched most of the series at least twice. I've got your post notifications going so I don't miss anything new and of course, I am a subscriber. I tell everyone I know who might be interested in bicycle frame building to check out your channel!! I love your enthusiasm. And I love your honesty. And frankly, I am envious of your video production!! What software do you use in post production to put text and graphics over your video images?
To be honest, you have motivated me to start planning a bike fixture build of my own and I am planning to build a couple road and single speed frames for myself, and my family and friends.
You are an inspiration. DO NOT GIVE UP!! You have a pretty serious, hard-core loyal following!!
I can't wait for the next installment!!
+Dan Garcia You're words have inspired me! I'm so glad to have viewers like you Dan :) Good luck with your future builds. You have a very lucky family to be getting all those custom bikes! For video editing I use Adobe Premiere. And for the overlay diagrams I use Photoshop. If you set up a transparent layer file (psd) and save it from Photoshop. You can simply drag the file into Premiere and the software will let you choose which layers to import. Good luck!
Fantastic stuff. Exactly the kind of info I have been looking for.
I was involved in a car accident whilst on my titanium bike. The bike and I came out of it not too bad but after further inspection, the frame alignment as all over the place. I managed to realign the rear triangle but then found my head tube was twisted.
I have tried doing this with a standard vice, blocks of wood etc but think I'll be making an attempt at making an alignment table.
And I know titanium is s bit risky compared to steel :(
So good!
+oishisakana Thank you deliciousfish.
Thank You, Man! I waited so long!
+Паша Тарасик The pleasure is all mine :)
Pithy, your videos are great! I noticed a road frame in the jig. Is that # 2 ? One suggestion, I think using a small scissor jack would be a little more controlled for cold-setting.
+Dilligaf Dan Didn't think of a jack.. But I must say, 'feeling' it to me goes a long way. To actually feel the pressure can be useful. The frame in the jig is the same one I've been working on in all my videos. The MTB frame in the alignment video is a frame I welded in a class a couple years ago. Basically, the frame in the jig is my second. But I consider it my first because I did every step on my own. The MTB frame from the class was mostly done for me, I just welded it. Cheers!
like your video's! All the steps in your series make perfect sense to me now.
Where did you initialliy learn what wich steps to take and what tools to buy etc..
+Ruben de Bruijne I think the most valuable thing I did before making the jump into frame building was taking a machining class. It exposed me to many tools and sparked a flame in my mind for all the possibilities. From there, it was really just a matter of lots of googling and google image. Thanks for watching
when setting the head tube by putting a bar through it. it would probably be safer if you turned a thick walled sleeve for the bar to fit in to avoid distortion which will alter how well you'll be able to put the headset in later, or if you have an old headset press that in then put the bar inside that
+cyan933 I will for sure do this. Thanks for the advice! *thumbs up*
Hi , I opened the back wheel , by mistake I've pressed the dropout of chain stay and seat stay little closer n now it is not coming on exact alignment , what I need to do please
can we do it with full lug bicycle frame?
It seems that it´s relatively easy to bend the frame into alignment - so I wonder in heavy use, how easy it will be to bend it out of alignment?
+Farlig66 I wonder about this too. Logic tells me that all frames must go out of alignment at some point.. Chromoly has a tendancy to flex back. It's when the flex goes past the point of flexing back..
+Farlig66 It's not that easy to set into alignment, if you've ever done it yourself you'll probably be using a 4-5ft bar and putting a good % of your body weight into it. Once a wheel is installed the frame becomes stiffer too (other than the head tube) but that only will go out of alignment from an impact (getting hit by a car / hitting a wall)
I'm not a frame builder by any means, but having worked in a bike shop years ago, I can say I've seen plenty of bent frames (especially vintage road frames). The reality is the frame needs to be really far out of alignment before most people would ever know there was a problem. Usually I noticed alignment issues just by removing/installing rear wheels and then putting an alignment gauge up to the frame (and keep in mind those chincy Park Tool frame alignment gauges are no where near precise; they're like a tape measure compared to a caliper).
+thechosendude This is great insight. I really have no idea what amount of off alignment is noticeable. Thanks for sharing.
How much of the misalignment is due to inaccuracy in the jigs that positioned things for welding and how much is due to the distorting effect of welding?
+Mark Holm I'm guessing its a bit of both. This being my first welded frame, I know how much heat I put into it and it was a LOT. As for the fixturing of this frame, I don't know much about what it went through. I was there for the main triangle fixturing. But not for the dropouts. It will be interesting to see the results for my current frame (the one you can see in the frame jig).
If the frame can be aligned so easily when the steel is cold, would riding it possibly put it out of alignment. Also could the stresses he put on the frame relax on a hot day and put it out of alignment? Not judging just genuinely interested. It looks to me to be incredibly difficult to fix one problem with creating another.
Its difficult to gauge but I'm really putting a lot of force on the tubes to get them aligned. This is not recommended and it's best to align while in tack weld stage. But to answer your question, yes the frame can go out of alignment while riding. I don't know about weather changes though. But to put your mind at ease.. a little misalignment isn't bad and most folks don't even notice or 'feel' a lot of misalignment. :) That said, getting it as close to aligned as possible is a mark of a good builder!
I wanna make a concrete stamping tool!!!
Good stuff, a handy piece of kit. Out of curiosity is the bench grinder in the background a Dewalt? What model is it as i'm on the lookout for a new one and it looks a substantial size.
+Dinxsy Yes it is a Dewalt. And its too big! I think its an 8". A 6" will do all the jobs I need. I should have researched more.. I can't recommend it because it vibrates a lot. But maybe I just don't know how to balance a griding wheel..
Pithy Bikes Maybe something to consider then, my last one used to vibrate loads and it was tiny. This website has some inside to why there's vibrations, woodworking website but the grinder principles are the same Could be the washers they mention, you could make new ones.
www.highlandwoodworking.com/Balancinggrinderwheels.aspx
where did you get the plate???
I got it as a remnant from a metal supply place in San Leandro
www.alcometals.com/location/
Sir, may I know what king of drop-out is that where the hanger is with the entire frame? That is actually my plan for my budget frame. Thanks!
Also, may I know sir what is the designed mm of travel for the fork? Bcus its so slack and long. Im guessing its an enduro bike?
I like your quest for precision however this attempt to align the frame raises a certain question in my mind. If you can so easily bend the frame into alignment what happens when you mount a seat and wheels and gears and then mount the bike and ride off into the vast unknown. It seems to me that the forces the frame experiences are at least as great as the force that you exerted when aligning the frame. Am I wrong? An example of great force while riding would be going around a curve at about 20 mph (or greater) and hitting a bump while you are in the turn.
+Adam Pierce I think you're right. But I'm not experienced so I don't know the answer. It seems to me that a frame could go just as easily out of alignment as it is to go into alignment. I know that when I'm riding my current commuter bike I sometimes exert pressure on the bars and at times produce a twist. I wonder if my commuter bike is out of alignment simply because of this. Or does it just flex right back.
+Pithy Bikes I took the frame building 101 class at UFV a couple years back, and the instructor (Paul Brodie) had us align our frame multiple times through the build. I brazed my frame (not TIG) but the frame was on the alignment table three times while doing the front triangle. First time was after it came out of the jig after tack welding (the BB/DT welding was done before the jig), the second time was after HT/TT brazing, and the third was after HT/DT and ST/TT brazing. Each time the frame was stiffer than before; after tacking it could be moved with one finger, and after the final set of welds I was using all my weight and bouncing on it multiple times to move the alignment by only a single mm. It was scary at first, but it was a huge confidence builder in the strength of the frame and its ability to take abuse. SS/CS alignment was done a couple times, after first welds and after adding the bridges. It was amazing just how much stronger the rear triangles became after the bridges were installed, and I know that adding the wheel makes it even stronger. I'm sure a serious wreck would mess up the alignment, and I'm sure that after a long period of hard riding things will drift a bit, but I suspect that it would take quite a bit of drift for it to be noticeable.
Great video. I really enjoy your channel. Do you live in Boston?
+Daniel Caetano I used to live in Waltham ( a bit west of Boston). Now I'm in CA. Thanks for watching!
I like
hello,Steve
would you please send me some web links for purchasing professional bicycle accessories?Thanks very much.^^
+C PENG Hi Peng, do you mean tools and fixtures?
+Pithy Bikes About bike parts.
👍👍👍💛💛💛
show!!!!!
+denilson doria @_@
Uma pequena tolerância e aceitavel
Nice tutorial in relation to the top and down tube being irrelevant when aligning the head and seat tube. You need to have a word with Paul Bridge. His alignment tutorial made no sense at all. I've been a builder for 50 years in Australia. Well done Mr Piithy
The frame doesn't get better by bending just 2 thousands of an inch