“Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ... what have the Romans ever done for us?”
@@longandshort6639Well, I sure do hope that such a jolly fellow as Tom has a license for that! That leads me to the speculation that he must be in possession of many such other bladed articles. Such as one or even *TWO* butter knives, a putty knife, or dare I even suggest- a decorative letter opener! I apologize if I’ve arose any fear among any of you, but I can no longer stand by idling whilst the entire kingdom’s youth is endangered by such cavalier attitude. 🇬🇧🇬🇧
Claiming to know how Romans pronounced their Latin is quite audacious even for etymologists. One would have to be nearly 2000 years old to hold such assertions with any real authority...
At 34:27 you said the atrocities “explain the violence of Roman retribution”. That is very naive. These descriptions can best be read as the Roman excuse for extraordinary violence, which was the most common Roman response to any form of rebellion. Recall the Roman mass crucifixions of Jews after the rebellions, recall Polybius writing of the Romans slaughtering towns that had rebelled, killing everyone, even to cutting dogs in half. The words were written by a Roman, excusing the Romans.
Enjoying the show immensely. Now for an aside: In the 1960s-70s there was an adjective thrown around that meant large, highly interesting or intense or outrageous, or beautiful and it was “bodaceous”, as in, if I may, bodaceous ta-tas or a bodacious musical event. No one ever had an inarguable definition. When I first heard of Boudica (Boudicea) I thought it referred to the very woman you are speaking of today. Possible?
Bodacious when it was first coined in the 1830s apparently meant bold+audacious, but by the time it had made its way into Californian slang and via that into Wayne's World and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure in the 1980s it had changed to just mean 'posessed of a sexy body'. Boudicca is from the Celtic bouda, meaning victory. Body is from the Anglo-Saxon boudeg, sounding very similar, but going back to a different Indo-European root word .
I mean, there is a point in the Germanic influence in Britain. Moder archeologist did found long ships from the IV century AD. Before the Vulcanic eruption of the VI century and the beginning of the Viking age, is it really impossible to think that Scandinavians didn't trade with the rest of the Europe?!
Probably the best known Saxon long ship burial is in sutton hoo, 6th c. A great movie on Netflix called 'the Dig' tells the story about the man who excavated and discovered the ship burial. It was full of 'wonderful things ' including lots of gold, gold belt buckle, gold shoulder clasps, a gold and ivory decorated purse . The nearby museum has a recreation of the burial chamber, Definitely worth a visit .
At school in the 1970’s Boudicca was pronounced “boe-dikka” (ie the c was a hard not a soft c). Could you comment on this - was there a change in academia or were my schoolmasters wrong?
Thank you mentioning Roman attack on druids in Anglsey with Legions leaving SW undefended. Icenni revolt forced legions to return maybe leaving remaining druids to escape to Ireland & Cumbria
I still remember when the Vicar of Dibley's (Dawn French) middle name was revealed as Baodicea! I presume that most names of ancient Britons that we know of are Latinized versions?
And the names of the peoples. If you look at most of the Latin names for British tribes, and what little we know about what the people called themselves (mainly from later Welsh language histories) it seems that a lot of the Latin names were just the Romans trying to write down in their language an approximation of the names from an (unwritten) Brythonic language that had very different sounds that simply didn’t exist in Latin. Gododdin = Votadini, Bryneich = Berniciae.
@@anonUK They did, but it’s possible that the “Gododdin” were the “GWOH - DOTH - EEN”. Modern Welsh (the surviving Brythonic language) has the “GW” sound and would pronounce “doddin” as “dotheen”. The Latin “V” pronounced as if W in English and seems too much of a coincidence with GW, and Latin lacks the “th” sound. So the Latin pronunciation of VOTADINI would have been “WOH - TAH - DEEN - EE” with the “I” at the end probably just a plural. And the people described are almost certainly the same ones from the same place - what is now SE Scotland (they gave their name to “Lothian” too).
@davidpaterson2309 If the British (as in Ancient Welsh) pronounced the "Gw" in Gwododdin, rather than as just "W", then wouldn't the Romans have transliterated that as "Gavotadin(i)" or similar to represent both the G and the W? 500 years later in France, Celtic or Germanic "Gw" often became hard "G" or "Gu"- but that of course was the Germanic Franks trying to pronounce the names, rather than the Romans.
@@anonUK I’m not a Welsh speaker but I think the Welsh “GW” isn’t the same sound as “hard G + W” in English. W is a vowel in Welsh - something like OUW (in the same way that eg the French spell “wow” as “ouaou”) and the initial G might be softer, more like a Scottish “ch” sound. So “Gododdin” maybe phonetically “Xuo-doð-in”? Not a million miles from “Wo-ta-din (i)”. I’m not an expert in this, just an interested amateur offering a speculative hypothesis on a particular name, but my more general point was that I think the Romans often tried to approximate the local language names of peoples into Latin. When they wanted to invent slang or derogatory names for “barbarians” they could certainly do it - thus the letter home from the Roman soldier on Hadrian’s Wall that describes the locals as “Britunculi” which the historian Mary Beard says roughly translates to “nasty little Brits”!
@17:08. 'Boudega' Bringer of Victory. The pronunciation police are SO tedious. Ever since the discovery of those ancient C60 cassette tapes of Romanobrit conversation historians and archeologists have been quite bossy about how we pronounce stuff ... oh, hang on, I'm being sarcastic again ...
Windridge has no valley, there is an early Roman Fort at Windridge Farm accounting for the sling shot. There is no meaningful case for Verulamium, go and have a look.
If this here Ms. B was apparelled as non-biased chronicles described - I note ''with a large heavy torque around her neck'' - this can be a handicap -such decorations can weigh you down. In fact, it is quite feasible to suggest that she was ''all torque and no action''. (drum and cymbal crash)
I've seen, lucky enough to have worked on excavations twice that have gone deep enough in the very centre of verulamium beyond Roman occupation even beyond iron age levels into the natural subsoil. The thin, very very thin layer of burning attributed to 'boudicca ' at its deepest is only 3 cm , not a constant layer its patchy, better seen in plan rather than section. More a building site with a few completed buildings ,in wood, no brick basilica until a few decades later. Yes the catuvellauni expanded fast ruling most of middle Britain when the Romans invaded. But tribal hatred , going south from 'Essex " towards London and verulamium ( the latter both part of catuvellauni territory) wasn't the primary reason the Iceni did that, it was the only option they actually had, not having the numbers to go north or north west towards the legions seeking a battle they had no chance of winning. Going south into land without any military bases no forts no soldiers at all, they new they could destroy cause havoc , destroying a couple of Roman cities for a short while before the arrival and their inevitable deaths by the Roman soldiers . Its even possible that they expected the legions to arrive before they left colchester, London and verulamium may have been an unexpected bonus. I guess we'll never know . But one thing the latest archaeological information tells us Even if the trinovantes and catuvellauni all joined the Iceni in rebellion to Roman occupation, it wouldn't number more than 12000 able to fight.. I find it hard to believe the trinovantes joined the Iceni, the rebels didn't just target the temple the new Roman city and a few actuall Romans & hated collaborators. Everything outside the Roman city, the original homes roundhouses etc all animals and ALL the people ( 99.9%) trinovante Celts were destroyed , people tortured and killed. People don't turn on rulers and kill their own wives children their families and friends too! The work of long time district archaeologist, Philip Crummy who knows the archaeology of Colchester better than anyone, his excavations prove everything that stood at the time was burned down.
I agree, I can't imagine anyone from verulamium would see smoke, London at the time was very small and the geology London sits at the bottom of the Thames valley, a deep valley. .
Tom, you can't go calling the Iceni tribe the Ikeni. It might be the correct way of pronouncing it but there are too many people saying Iceni. Embrace the incorrectness, it is the English way after all. As an example you wouldn't start calling the famous Dr Seuss (rhymes with zeus) the correct pronunciation of Soice, would you? Hoping the world will follow. So, that settles it then, Dr Seuss (zeus) and Iceni (iseenee). You can thank me later :D
Rather than a heroic figure I would say she's a tragic figure a bit like Cleopatra. Two great women caught up in events they could never prevail in. One tried guile and intrigue the other direct rebellion; both doomed to fail
., it's interesting when you mention a wolf in connection with the north of East Anglia as there is a legend of a ghostly black dog who haunts the beach near Kings Lynn. I don't know much more than that without further investigation sorry.
@@GusShredny I think it’s the producer. They don’t strike me as woke guys. They’re fairly crusty middle aged Brits, which is part of the appeal of the ‘cast.
The importance of Boudicca has been exaggerated for centuries. She wasn't a, warrior, an Iceni or even a queen. Her husband didn't view her as his heir, placing his daughters under the Emperor's protection. The rebellion had nothing to do with a rape, she led the Iceni riding to gain Roman recognition as queen (her husband, Prasutagus, was a client king put in power by Rome). Her warbands attacked the Atrebates, raided the frontier settlement of Londinium and the colonial of Colchester and slaughtered mistly civilians. Her 'army' was caught on the way back into Iceni territory laden with plunder and captives and annihilated by a single legion and a collection of auxillia. She was such a brilliant commander that she placed her baggage train behind her army blocking any line of retreat. The revolt would never have succeeded because many of the tribes were enemies of the Iceni and Trinovantes or clients of Rona as there was no such identity as being 'British'. It was the Romans that made the tribes into 'Britons'.
Do revolts need to be successful for them to be important? You're down playing something important that happened. And for the later British identity and nation that formed, which didn't take on its modern form until 1801 anyway, it was important enough to them. Sauced up? Most likely. But don't get too drunk on your own either.
@@subcitizen2012 the Iceni uprising had nothing to do with the formation of British identity, The Iceni chose to become allies of Rome , they promised to remain on their own lands during the invasion, instead of joining other tribes such as the trinovantes & catuvellauni who fought against the invading Romans. The uprising was down to the Romans not keeping earlier promises they made with the Iceni. If they had kept those promises there never would have been any uprising. The reason the Iceni went south after colchester instead of going north or north west towards the Roman legions, was to avoid confrontation against an army they new would destroy them. They new the lands around London and verulamium had no military bases, no forts no soldiers , just ordinary unarmed Celts, farmers and others adopting roman ways living in new 'Roman style' cities. Colchester London and verulamium are only a few miles apart from each other, they did no damage to the Romans The cities they burned were soon rebuilt,bigger and better. After verulamium the army was waiting and inevitably wiped the Iceni out. The story about standing up against Roman occupation, coming close to ending Roman rule is all over exaggerated nonsense. The Iceni didn't have tens of thousands, they didn't kill tens of thousands. That's archaeological fact. The only celt who should have a bronze statue the man who refused to surrender who carried on fighting the Roman's for the following decade, until queen cartimandau drugged his wine and handed him over to the Romans , was Caratacus. Yet hardly anyone knows his name or anything about him. Its ironic that outside parliament is a bronze statue of boudicca, the leader of a tribe who burned the place down.
I've been listening to this episode on Amazon prime music and its an absolute mess. The same repetition and jumping around that i sometimes get on THIP too. Can you hire a new editor please?
Since we have no documentary proof, other than the name of a road (2000 years later) that now runs to Wiltshire, where Tom is from, Iceni is probably best pronounced eye-see-knee, rather than eye-kay-knee. What do you think Tom? Oh ok, let's try and convert all of Britain to say eye-kay-knee. Finally, if I was a woman, which I'm not, even though I have a penis, I would say Boudica was not entirely happy with the pronunciation of her name - boo-dick-ah. She would likely have been far more happy with boa-dis-seah, don't you think? I mean, you just have to know women to know what she would have preferred.
She's a mythology, although there were women leaders and warriors. This one is created for memory, not dissimilar to Mary representing all women for Christians
@@JustMe-zk9dcIf you look at a map of the Roman Empire you will notice it includes the tip of Africa. However, as we know, the people from these lands are not black. They are of course darker skinned than the average person in the Roman Empire and so the sources will often mention their skin, but this is only in comparison with white people. Take the Emperor Severus for example who is wrongly referred to by agenda driven historians as black when in reality he was born in modern day Libya. The Sahara desert separated the limits of the Roman Empire from the rest of Africa. Henceforth, it is likely very few, if any, sub-saharan Africans would have entered the Roman Empire.
@@NT927AD The sad thing is you believe what you're saying. There where black Byzantine Emperors and the most famous Roman legionary who was made into a staint of the holy Roman Empire was black. The only agenda that is being followed is by you. I follow history.
As always British Historians exaggerate the importance of Britain as a province of Roman Empire. Britain was a far remote land, it was the proof and argument of how far the Roman power could be projected, resonanting with the ancients knowing the Greek nonsenses about Hyperboraeans; yes, that is true ... but Britain was never anywhere near to a relevant province of the Imperium Romanum. It was the (!) remote backwater, far from Mediterranean where the Roman core life took place. Britain had nothing to offer, except tin and wood. It was a land with no olives, no wine, of endless forests and wild primitive peoples, yet it was the home of druids - a stratum of celtic society completely abhorred by Romans because of the human sacrifices. They were astonished that the developed societies of Celts of Gaul send their best and smartest to this remote island.
Oh shock horror, British historians talking about British history! If Tom read these comments, he would agree with you, as would most people in Britain. We are well aware that our lands existed on the fringes of the Roman Empire with little importance. Tom literally said in previous episodes that the Romans only really came here for the legend, not because it had any real value. But who are you to tell us what we can and can’t talk about in our history?
Did you listen to the previous 2 episodes? They very much talk about Britain’s lack of importance in the context of the Roman empire. But this is series about the Roman conquest of Britain, they are going to talk about Britain. Do you get mad they burgers in Burger King?
@@phild5322 never did i say what you can/cant, just stressed out the core about ancient Britain, ie. its irrelevance, periphery, marginality etc. For us non-Brits its important to place your (imperial, sumus axis mundi) arse on your place. Sorry.
"Budica plotting a Brexit" - that really made my day 🤣🤣🤣
The connection between nordic mythology and east anglia was fascinating had no idea it may have exsisted. Great episode
I presume the frisii interacted with them through oversea trade.
You know you pissed a woman off when she still has a burn layer in the geological record 2000 year later.
Sounds like my x
I don't blame her😂❤
Boudica's rousing speech began with, "What have the Romans ever done for us?!?!"
“Apart from the sanitation, the medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system, and public health ... what have the Romans ever done for us?”
@@GoBlueGirl78 literacy, mathematics and philosophy as well
@@joebombero1 Whoosh
Incontinentia Bvttocs, esteemed wife of Roman General Biggvs Diccvs, really blew the whole system apart
@@d.c.8828 🤣
"The problem with Britannia... is that it's full of Brits"
-Caesar, probably.
He said the exact same thing when he went to Spain!
I'd love Tom to do a video showing all these coins close up.
Thanks for this! Great research and dissemination.
Thank you !
Yet another bodice ripping tale about our misty strange island - more please :)
Boudin’s reign of Blood and Tom’s gleeful grin this is going to be a good one!
Dominic's dramatic readings are just masterful, no?😊
They really are a treat.
No
Super interesting! Thanks.
Anyone else enjoy watching the sun change position in toms room? I think its scintillating.
Did you notice the sword 🗡️ on his bookshelf ?
@longandshort6639 I didn't, going to save it for the next episode
@@longandshort6639Well, I sure do hope that such a jolly fellow as Tom has a license for that! That leads me to the speculation that he must be in possession of many such other bladed articles. Such as one or even *TWO* butter knives, a putty knife, or dare I even suggest- a decorative letter opener!
I apologize if I’ve arose any fear among any of you, but I can no longer stand by idling whilst the entire kingdom’s youth is endangered by such cavalier attitude. 🇬🇧🇬🇧
@@mikenite8869 😂
Wow, this wasn't up when I started part two!
Same lmao
Glad you're including the opening excerpt now.
British historians never pronounce Latin names correctly. Thanks for giving it a go there, Tom! 🏆
At least for one Roman descriptor for a British tribal name!
Claiming to know how Romans pronounced their Latin is quite audacious even for etymologists. One would have to be nearly 2000 years old to hold such assertions with any real authority...
FANTASTIC episode, Gentlemen!
Bravo Boudica. The romans do not like it up em!
new here… was the last part of hundred years war Henry V only for members and patreons? I can’t find it.
At 34:27 you said the atrocities “explain the violence of Roman retribution”. That is very naive. These descriptions can best be read as the Roman excuse for extraordinary violence, which was the most common Roman response to any form of rebellion. Recall the Roman mass crucifixions of Jews after the rebellions, recall Polybius writing of the Romans slaughtering towns that had rebelled, killing everyone, even to cutting dogs in half. The words were written by a Roman, excusing the Romans.
I named my armoured vehicle Boudicca . . . . .if your job is to f*ck sh*t up by rolling over everything in your path then Boudicca is your girl. 😂
Enjoying the show immensely.
Now for an aside: In the 1960s-70s there was an adjective thrown around that meant large, highly interesting or intense or outrageous, or beautiful and it was “bodaceous”, as in, if I may, bodaceous ta-tas or a bodacious musical event. No one ever had an inarguable definition. When I first heard of Boudica (Boudicea) I thought it referred to the very woman you are speaking of today. Possible?
Bodacious when it was first coined in the 1830s apparently meant bold+audacious, but by the time it had made its way into Californian slang and via that into Wayne's World and Bill & Ted's Excellent Adventure in the 1980s it had changed to just mean 'posessed of a sexy body'.
Boudicca is from the Celtic bouda, meaning victory.
Body is from the Anglo-Saxon boudeg, sounding very similar, but going back to a different Indo-European root word .
Imagine explaining to the Romans that one day Brittannia would become the most powerful island in the world, far more powerful than Italy.
They wouldn't have believed it and would probably have killed you for suggesting it.
I consider the Roman Empire more greater than the British Empire
Boudicca l have read was from the Parisi tribe, and married into the Iceni, but was of royal blood herself.
What a way to start the week
this is so good thank you!
Remember this is told by 2 english guys perspective not from Britons/Welsh or Roman.
Bua means 'win' in Irish. Makes you think that Boudica and her people must have been very similar to the Gaels
I want Tom's collection of British coins!
Cab anyone tell me what books they cite? I've forgotten what book they say and I want to read
I was here looking for the same thing. I didn't want to listen for a third time to find it. Be good if they posted a reading list.
I mean, there is a point in the Germanic influence in Britain. Moder archeologist did found long ships from the IV century AD. Before the Vulcanic eruption of the VI century and the beginning of the Viking age, is it really impossible to think that Scandinavians didn't trade with the rest of the Europe?!
Probably the best known Saxon long ship burial is in sutton hoo, 6th c.
A great movie on Netflix called 'the Dig' tells the story about the man who excavated and discovered the ship burial.
It was full of 'wonderful things ' including lots of gold, gold belt buckle, gold shoulder clasps, a gold and ivory decorated purse .
The nearby museum has a recreation of the burial chamber,
Definitely worth a visit .
At school in the 1970’s Boudicca was pronounced “boe-dikka” (ie the c was a hard not a soft c). Could you comment on this - was there a change in academia or were my schoolmasters wrong?
I named my beautiful black labrador Boudicca, in honour of this great queen.
Thank you mentioning Roman attack on druids in Anglsey with Legions leaving SW undefended. Icenni revolt forced legions to return maybe leaving remaining druids to escape to Ireland & Cumbria
I still remember when the Vicar of Dibley's (Dawn French) middle name was revealed as Baodicea! I presume that most names of ancient Britons that we know of are Latinized versions?
And the names of the peoples. If you look at most of the Latin names for British tribes, and what little we know about what the people called themselves (mainly from later Welsh language histories) it seems that a lot of the Latin names were just the Romans trying to write down in their language an approximation of the names from an (unwritten) Brythonic language that had very different sounds that simply didn’t exist in Latin. Gododdin = Votadini, Bryneich = Berniciae.
@@davidpaterson2309
The Romans didn't have a hard "G" consonant?
@@anonUK They did, but it’s possible that the “Gododdin” were the “GWOH - DOTH - EEN”. Modern Welsh (the surviving Brythonic language) has the “GW” sound and would pronounce “doddin” as “dotheen”. The Latin “V” pronounced as if W in English and seems too much of a coincidence with GW, and Latin lacks the “th” sound. So the Latin pronunciation of VOTADINI would have been “WOH - TAH - DEEN - EE” with the “I” at the end probably just a plural. And the people described are almost certainly the same ones from the same place - what is now SE Scotland (they gave their name to “Lothian” too).
@davidpaterson2309
If the British (as in Ancient Welsh) pronounced the "Gw" in Gwododdin, rather than as just "W", then wouldn't the Romans have transliterated that as "Gavotadin(i)" or similar to represent both the G and the W? 500 years later in France, Celtic or Germanic "Gw" often became hard "G" or "Gu"- but that of course was the Germanic Franks trying to pronounce the names, rather than the Romans.
@@anonUK I’m not a Welsh speaker but I think the Welsh “GW” isn’t the same sound as “hard G + W” in English. W is a vowel in Welsh - something like OUW (in the same way that eg the French spell “wow” as “ouaou”) and the initial G might be softer, more like a Scottish “ch” sound.
So “Gododdin” maybe phonetically “Xuo-doð-in”?
Not a million miles from “Wo-ta-din (i)”.
I’m not an expert in this, just an interested amateur offering a speculative hypothesis on a particular name, but my more general point was that I think the Romans often tried to approximate the local language names of peoples into Latin.
When they wanted to invent slang or derogatory names for “barbarians” they could certainly do it - thus the letter home from the Roman soldier on Hadrian’s Wall that describes the locals as “Britunculi” which the historian Mary Beard says roughly translates to “nasty little Brits”!
@17:08. 'Boudega' Bringer of Victory. The pronunciation police are SO tedious. Ever since the discovery of those ancient C60 cassette tapes of Romanobrit conversation historians and archeologists have been quite bossy about how we pronounce stuff ... oh, hang on, I'm being sarcastic again ...
Shut up and learn?
It’s obvious that the Icini would have traded with Germanic tribes.
Celts were trading as far away as the Mediterranean in Greek times! They were definitely trading along the North sea.
Windridge has no valley, there is an early Roman Fort at Windridge Farm accounting for the sling shot. There is no meaningful case for Verulamium, go and have a look.
If this here Ms. B was apparelled as non-biased chronicles described - I note ''with a large heavy torque around her neck'' - this can be a handicap -such decorations can weigh you down. In fact, it is quite feasible to suggest that she was ''all torque and no action''. (drum and cymbal crash)
Nice. This works best if you employ a New York (American specific) accent. ;)
The Celts were big on torques. Now you know.
Oy! I ran the Roman empire ragged around Britain for 10 years. Where's my statue 😁
Boadicea sounding remarkably like Thatcher😮
@@happychappy7115 so did Liz Truss 😀
Her name was Buddug obviously Boadicea is roman/latin.
No comment
@@MrShbbzLettuce?
@@GoBlueGirl78 indeed so! :D
wow good stuff, bodhi-ka is a title
😮 gotta get me a Iceni fen wolf coin for my watch chain 👉
I've seen, lucky enough to have worked on excavations twice that have gone deep enough in the very centre of verulamium beyond Roman occupation even beyond iron age levels into the natural subsoil.
The thin, very very thin layer of burning attributed to 'boudicca ' at its deepest is only 3 cm , not a constant layer its patchy, better seen in plan rather than section.
More a building site with a few completed buildings ,in wood, no brick basilica until a few decades later.
Yes the catuvellauni expanded fast ruling most of middle Britain when the Romans invaded.
But tribal hatred , going south from 'Essex " towards London and verulamium ( the latter both part of catuvellauni territory) wasn't the primary reason the Iceni did that, it was the only option they actually had, not having the numbers to go north or north west towards the legions seeking a battle they had no chance of winning.
Going south into land without any military bases no forts no soldiers at all, they new they could destroy cause havoc , destroying a couple of Roman cities for a short while before the arrival and their inevitable deaths by the Roman soldiers .
Its even possible that they expected the legions to arrive before they left colchester, London and verulamium may have been an unexpected bonus.
I guess we'll never know .
But one thing the latest archaeological information tells us
Even if the trinovantes and catuvellauni all joined the Iceni in rebellion to Roman occupation, it wouldn't number more than 12000 able to fight..
I find it hard to believe the trinovantes joined the Iceni, the rebels didn't just target the temple the new Roman city and a few actuall Romans & hated collaborators.
Everything outside the Roman city, the original homes roundhouses etc all animals and ALL the people ( 99.9%) trinovante Celts were destroyed , people tortured and killed.
People don't turn on rulers and kill their own wives children their families and friends too!
The work of long time district archaeologist,
Philip Crummy who knows the archaeology of Colchester better than anyone, his excavations prove everything that stood at the time was burned down.
It is camulodunum and pronounced as such, not camulodonum. Wonderful podcast by the way.
I haven’t got to that part yet… nevertheless, thank you.
41:51 oh come on tom! i dont believe you wouldve been able to see london burning from st albans even then 😂😂 very storm clouds are gathering 😄
30-35 kms away? They'd see smoke I would imagine.
I agree, I can't imagine anyone from verulamium would see smoke, London at the time was very small and the geology London sits at the bottom of the Thames valley, a deep valley. .
Cassius Dio sounded just like Margaret Thatcher
Dominic made Boudicca sound like Margaret Thatcher
Tom, you can't go calling the Iceni tribe the Ikeni. It might be the correct way of pronouncing it but there are too many people saying Iceni. Embrace the incorrectness, it is the English way after all.
As an example you wouldn't start calling the famous Dr Seuss (rhymes with zeus) the correct pronunciation of Soice, would you? Hoping the world will follow.
So, that settles it then, Dr Seuss (zeus) and Iceni (iseenee). You can thank me later :D
What language are you all using again...
The fight against Rome has never really ended, but they got us in the end. (Papal power/Jesuit coadjutors)
Excellent show as always, except for the butchering of latin pronunciation!!!!
You’re enjoying yourselves way too much 😂
Rather than a heroic figure I would say she's a tragic figure a bit like Cleopatra. Two great women caught up in events they could never prevail in. One tried guile and intrigue the other direct rebellion; both doomed to fail
She sounds like my ex.
Its never a good idea to upset a redhead eespescially a queen of sorts
., it's interesting when you mention a wolf in connection with the north of East Anglia as there is a legend of a ghostly black dog who haunts the beach near Kings Lynn. I don't know much more than that without further investigation sorry.
Should Boudica be the patron saint of arsonists?
Have they excavated Boudica’s handbag by any chance?
Gents, that iceni wolf is clearly a badger (coin at 12:28)
The reading sounded like Margaret Thatcher,unfortunately!
I didnt think Cassius Dio was being sexist and I dont need an apologie if he was.. 😮
Most people are sexist. Sorry. Maybe you need to apologize.
your Dad surveyed my house !
I wish someone would tell these guys the thought police aren’t listening. They aren’t going to get canceled for reporting history.
My thoughts exactly. Woke wimps.
Get grown little boy.
@@GusShredny I think it’s the producer. They don’t strike me as woke guys. They’re fairly crusty middle aged Brits, which is part of the appeal of the ‘cast.
@@ricotubbs5229 : You’re probably right. Great show anyway.
Cats did it.
Do we know how old Boudica was when she was revolting?
Around the age of 32 we think.
@@jodawson5268is that because they didn’t have quality make up then?
The importance of Boudicca has been exaggerated for centuries. She wasn't a, warrior, an Iceni or even a queen. Her husband didn't view her as his heir, placing his daughters under the Emperor's protection. The rebellion had nothing to do with a rape, she led the Iceni riding to gain Roman recognition as queen (her husband, Prasutagus, was a client king put in power by Rome). Her warbands attacked the Atrebates, raided the frontier settlement of Londinium and the colonial of Colchester and slaughtered mistly civilians. Her 'army' was caught on the way back into Iceni territory laden with plunder and captives and annihilated by a single legion and a collection of auxillia. She was such a brilliant commander that she placed her baggage train behind her army blocking any line of retreat. The revolt would never have succeeded because many of the tribes were enemies of the Iceni and Trinovantes or clients of Rona as there was no such identity as being 'British'. It was the Romans that made the tribes into 'Britons'.
Do revolts need to be successful for them to be important? You're down playing something important that happened. And for the later British identity and nation that formed, which didn't take on its modern form until 1801 anyway, it was important enough to them. Sauced up? Most likely. But don't get too drunk on your own either.
@@subcitizen2012 the Iceni uprising had nothing to do with the formation of British identity,
The Iceni chose to become allies of Rome , they promised to remain on their own lands during the invasion, instead of joining other tribes such as the trinovantes & catuvellauni who fought against the invading Romans.
The uprising was down to the Romans not keeping earlier promises they made with the Iceni.
If they had kept those promises there never would have been any uprising.
The reason the Iceni went south after colchester instead of going north or north west towards the Roman legions, was to avoid confrontation against an army they new would destroy them.
They new the lands around London and verulamium had no military bases, no forts no soldiers , just ordinary unarmed Celts, farmers and others adopting roman ways living in new 'Roman style' cities.
Colchester London and verulamium are only a few miles apart from each other, they did no damage to the Romans
The cities they burned were soon rebuilt,bigger and better.
After verulamium the army was waiting and inevitably wiped the Iceni out.
The story about standing up against Roman occupation, coming close to ending Roman rule is all over exaggerated nonsense.
The Iceni didn't have tens of thousands, they didn't kill tens of thousands.
That's archaeological fact.
The only celt who should have a bronze statue the man who refused to surrender who carried on fighting the Roman's for the following decade, until queen cartimandau drugged his wine and handed him over to the Romans , was Caratacus.
Yet hardly anyone knows his name or anything about him.
Its ironic that outside parliament is a bronze statue of boudicca, the leader of a tribe who burned the place down.
Free Palestine is what she would say
'I's always make "ee" sounds in Latin, so "Eekehnee" would probably be a bit more accurate.
(I'm by no means an expert, though.)
I've been listening to this episode on Amazon prime music and its an absolute mess. The same repetition and jumping around that i sometimes get on THIP too. Can you hire a new editor please?
Towering height, wore a large torc, and greater intelligence than is usually the case with women.......mmmm
Since we have no documentary proof, other than the name of a road (2000 years later) that now runs to Wiltshire, where Tom is from, Iceni is probably best pronounced eye-see-knee, rather than eye-kay-knee. What do you think Tom? Oh ok, let's try and convert all of Britain to say eye-kay-knee. Finally, if I was a woman, which I'm not, even though I have a penis, I would say Boudica was not entirely happy with the pronunciation of her name - boo-dick-ah. She would likely have been far more happy with boa-dis-seah, don't you think? I mean, you just have to know women to know what she would have preferred.
Official woman her. Doesnt matter to me.
She's a mythology, although there were women leaders and warriors. This one is created for memory, not dissimilar to Mary representing all women for Christians
No she was real. The burnt layer of sacking of Roman areas of Britain are still there.
No she was real, too much documentation and the burnt layer is still there in the ruins of Claudias temple in Colchester.
"slavereh" 😂
Gasp! A woman leading people in ancient times! What is this woke plot!!!111oneone1!! 😇
@@Ammeeeeeeer actually to the educated ancients that seemed primitive and an attribute of the "barbarian"
It's cringey to hear people groveling like this. Let history speak for itself
WERE ARE THE BLACK PEOPLE ?
In Africa
@@NT927AD Some where in the Roman armies.
@@JustMe-zk9dcIf you look at a map of the Roman Empire you will notice it includes the tip of Africa. However, as we know, the people from these lands are not black. They are of course darker skinned than the average person in the Roman Empire and so the sources will often mention their skin, but this is only in comparison with white people. Take the Emperor Severus for example who is wrongly referred to by agenda driven historians as black when in reality he was born in modern day Libya. The Sahara desert separated the limits of the Roman Empire from the rest of Africa. Henceforth, it is likely very few, if any, sub-saharan Africans would have entered the Roman Empire.
@@NT927AD The sad thing is you believe what you're saying.
There where black Byzantine Emperors and the most famous Roman legionary who was made into a staint of the holy Roman Empire was black.
The only agenda that is being followed is by you. I follow history.
@@JustMe-zk9dc No there wasn't and no you don't. You are delusional and believing a lie because you can't face up to the truth.
As always British Historians exaggerate the importance of Britain as a province of Roman Empire. Britain was a far remote land, it was the proof and argument of how far the Roman power could be projected, resonanting with the ancients knowing the Greek nonsenses about Hyperboraeans; yes, that is true ... but Britain was never anywhere near to a relevant province of the Imperium Romanum. It was the (!) remote backwater, far from Mediterranean where the Roman core life took place. Britain had nothing to offer, except tin and wood. It was a land with no olives, no wine, of endless forests and wild primitive peoples, yet it was the home of druids - a stratum of celtic society completely abhorred by Romans because of the human sacrifices. They were astonished that the developed societies of Celts of Gaul send their best and smartest to this remote island.
Oh shock horror, British historians talking about British history! If Tom read these comments, he would agree with you, as would most people in Britain. We are well aware that our lands existed on the fringes of the Roman Empire with little importance. Tom literally said in previous episodes that the Romans only really came here for the legend, not because it had any real value. But who are you to tell us what we can and can’t talk about in our history?
Did you listen to the previous 2 episodes? They very much talk about Britain’s lack of importance in the context of the Roman empire. But this is series about the Roman conquest of Britain, they are going to talk about Britain.
Do you get mad they burgers in Burger King?
At least the Brits have a history! I’m Australian and I live in Armenia. You can imagine how I feel when I visit 1200 year old churches :-)
@@MrZakCuerden no, just stressing out the medias res. Why are you mad reading it?
@@phild5322 never did i say what you can/cant, just stressed out the core about ancient Britain, ie. its irrelevance, periphery, marginality etc. For us non-Brits its important to place your (imperial, sumus axis mundi) arse on your place. Sorry.
Holy crap Maggie Thatch fought the Romans???!
1:00
This is great.