Wish GD would take responsibility for Paving New Paths and others who have had this issue. The frame is a manufacturer defect that needs to be recalled. Hopefully, GD will see this and realize this.
Me too! I was seriously considering buying a new Solitude. I had it picked out, but won't get it until this issue is fixed. A company has to be responsible for its mistakes. Also, customer service is important, and it is obviously lacking.
Glad they are at least trying to work it out for you. Hopefully they cover the needed repairs too. They need to do the same for Paving New Paths and others. I hope you are going to drop this thing like a hot potato once its fixed....
I’m happy for you. It’s a shame that many others aren’t getting any assistance. This problem is going to exist until someone gets seriously hurt or killed. Things need to change with the RV industry. They are married to this problem
We have decided to stay clear of Grand Design after hearing how many people are having problems with the framework. Thanks for sharing your experience.
Lippert still has some of the blame. Their welding is horrible! I was a certified welding inspector for years. I have never seen a lippert frame that would pass a structural weld inspection.
That may be, but I know someone that has been in their factory and they weren't impressed with what they saw. Employee job and material quality combined.
Certifications mean they know how. Doesn't mean they take the necessary time to do things correctly. I know people in a ton of trades that are journeymen, or certified in certain skills. I wouldn't let them hang a picture frame on my sister's walls
Great news! Everyone will benefit from this 3rd party inspection!! This frame problem has become an industry nightmare and they need to pay attention! Looking forward to future videos about how it goes! Smart move too to film everything; fairness to all involved!!
We shopped for months and looked at every brand available last December through March 2023. We got a Jayco and their frame is integrated with the tongue unlike most that are welded underneath. I’m no engineer but 100% guarantee it’s much stronger. None are perfect but really happy that Jayco uses plywood, their roof structure is way stronger than most. We’ve had a few minor things like a slide seal wasn’t working properly but Jayco took care of it. My local RV dealer A&L RV has been phenomenal. A week to get parts, a week for the repair. I also bought a stick and tin which are easier to fix and have less overall problems, just a little heavy.
We bought our 2022 Solitude new and we have had a few issues since day one. The rig is now out of warranty but Grand Design offered to have it hauled back to Elkhart on their dime and they fixed all of our issues. Hopefully they do the same for you.
Unless you've already had the inspection and got the film "in the can", it is doubtful gtand design is gonna let you film the inspection. As you'll recall, you weren't allowed to film the first repair.
@@MyBucketListDay Time will tell. If GD is footing the bill, they'll definitely have say over your ability to film. Now if you are paying, thats a different matter.
I hear you when Lippert agrees to build the trailer frame, they should at least make it the best THAT FRAME CAN BE. The welds should be good, inspected, etc
Hey Jeff, glad to see GD is working with you to resolve the issues, it was great running into you at the Brinkley booth at the show, we are actually picking up our new rig tomorrow. Larry
Hearing all these frame horror stories its great that you are getting assistance. Just really sad that Paving New Path's life has been upended by Grand Design and folks are attacking their sponsors now trying to cancel them. For these reasons I wont celebrate GD with you or ever buy one but looking forward to seeing the outcome of your rig for future knowledge with my own 5th wheel. Thank you for sharing the information.
I own a GD travel trailer and have had a ton of issues with it (slide, controllers, leaks, seals, etc...). GD has been excellent to work with, even well outside warranty period. In fact they extended my warranty into our 3rd year. Obviously it would be nice if we never had these problems in the first place, but they definitely have stood behind their product in our case.
I have been following Paving New Paths for some time. Both of them are intelligent, informative and honest. I question whether or not Grand Design has the same integrity. Regardless of being the original owner or not GD should stand behind their product even if it is out of warranty. These failures could cause serious injury of death to innocent people. I am in the market for a new RV. I had decided on a GD unit after considering a number of manufacturers. I will say that based on the bad publicity GD is earning for itself I am putting my purchase on hold.
I was about to pull the trigger on a Grand Design Momentum (new 23 model with heavy discount). I owned a solitude for a few years and never had a catastrophe but I’m seeing a trend downward with customer service. I’m now holding off and looking at Brinkley… appreciate your reviews and other UA-camrs!
You videos are great. You are very knowledgeable and explain your situation. Paving new Paths are another incredible channel and they had the same rig as you with very similar problems. Wish GD worked it out with them.
Grand Design are not even in the running anymore . And originally, I was considering them as number 1. No matter what they do or don’t do for those affected, I’m done. It’s absolutely not worth it.
I’m with ya 💯. Was considering an upgrade to a 5th wheel from our mid - sized North Trail pull behind, & the GD 324MBS (formally 31MB) was on the short list…. Not Now! Not even sure about a 5th wheel in general, and sure as hell not a GD! 😂🤣🤣 Think we’ll keep our lil’ box on wheels & maybe just get a nice open bow boat. 🚤
@@jerrodj4963 I’m considering wanderlusting for my retirement in an RV. And nothing major just like every 2-3 weeks new area, I’m not going to be pounding miles like some full time RV’ers do. I’ve learned there’s lots to do, you just gotta look. I need it to be comfortable, big enough, have no want to be cooped up in some class C, I want to be able to cook. I have an industrial leather sewing machine and I industrial sew and make seat cushions, patio coverings even awnings, so I need a toy hauler. I can’t think of much else nicer than sewing on a nice day with the patio up and animals underfoot enjoying the weather. And then a couple weeks later I can move and change my view. So I’m leaning Brinkley. I have issues they use Lippert frames. I’ve spoken to them about it. When I buy I’m going to ask for the spec sheets on the frame and supports and we will see how it goes.
Could you imagine the problems with a house if you changed the floor plan but not the foundation supporting it. The RV MFG are making a calculated risk assessment of the possible failure rate versus total built and sold units. If they save 5 million dollars by not redesigning and upgrading the frame for a new model and only have 1 million in warranty issues on the total sold of said model, then they are still money ahead.
As someone who was in the “it’s Lippert’s fault” camp, I really appreciate your in depth clarification on this issue. It has given me pause. Thank you.👍🏼😎
You need to get a full set of Grand Design structural drawings that Lippert builds from. This is needed to know who is responsible for metal size or thickness issues, and all weld specifications. Are welds called out be GD or Lippert, were the welds made to the drawings, etc? I strongly suggest you hire a structural engineer capable of doing calculations. A good Structural Engineer would be able to discuss GD engineers calcs if something looks in error. So far you have an agreement for an inspection only. GD will be looking for the fastest way out. Especially if you’re putting this inspection on UA-cam. Best wishes! Kevin
This is sooo exciting! Hopefully they take care of you and everybody else. It would be the greatest thing they could do to save the brand! Our is at their facility for other issues, hoping they inspect everything including the frame, and make everything right. Praying for everyone involved.
Hey Geoff, are you going to make a video responding to BTBRVs video about frame flex and interview with lippert.? It does not mention you specifically but obviously blaming the RV, owners for the frame flex damage. Seems like lippert made a deal with JD to deliver their message about frame flex, and basically its not them!. Larry
It’s good of GD to cover that inspection. Hopefully you have a good outcome and they get you all fixed up I have heard so many stories of GB dropping the ball and leaving the owners stranded (specifically Paving New Paths and countless others) They need to do something drastic on their end to improve the quality of their RV’s and to get some positive PR going or I foresee them going belly up and being involved in a massive class action lawsuit. They need to be held responsible for all the disposable trailers they have pumped out with inadequate engineering and insufficient frames.
Good to hear! Now you should think about why this happened. The way almost all 5th wheels are built, with the exceptions of DRV and Riverstone is to use aluminum in the upper deck and in such a way that is not structural. The drop frame is simply a vertical beam tied to a horizontal beam. That is tied to the pin box which is tied to the bed of the truck . So it becomes a giant lever. The truck hits a bump before the trailer and puts pressure on the deck. Then the trailer hits the bump and puts the opposite pressure onto the deck. DRV and Riverstone run heavy steel framing across the top of the cargo opening. DRV also uses heavy steel angle brace. For a major portion of 5th wheels the method that most of the manufacturers use is adequate. However if it is not… So when they “fix” this they typically remove the sidewalls, repair the cracked metal, and add some angle bracing. There is a guy who had a Beacon who went through this. Tiffin fixed it once, and then, after it broke again, he went to a place in Indiana that specializes in this repair. They showed video of the repair. I just don’t remember who, but it’s out there. I personally thought about this a lot. To me, the best band aid is to decouple the bed of the truck from the deck the trailer. I did this by purchasing a trailer save hitch. So now when the truck hits a bump,,I’m not applying immediate pressure to the deck. My 2 cents. Hope that helps.
Keep up the great work. You both are awesome regardless of what some people think. Yes you need an RV inspection new or used. I never ever used to think about getting one done on a new RV but you have changed my mind.
I subscribed because you tell it like it is. I’m building our trailer myself because I worked in Elkhart Indiana and I KNOW they’re garbage. My small 6X12 enclosed cargo trailer has polycore skin, and a base price of $4400. I figure I’ll have around $11K into it when finished, but will be better quality than anything mass produced at any price under $250K. Do you have any opinion good or bad about polycore ? I think I can trust your opinion. Thank you. 👍👍
You hit the nail on the head, while company A makes the frame, the material choice and design are primarily on the spec of the RV manufacturer and there is only so much a sub contractor can do before the RV manufacturer will pull the contract and go with someone else who won't ask questions or push back. I think you mention in one of your other videos that you have a background in engineering and product design (though not in RV's). I feel like you are uniquely qualified for the follow up questions. Since there is a safety factor to RV's as they are designed to be towed on highways and public roads is it time to create regulations to mandate an increase the factors of safety? Or maybe frame rating? If there is a catastrophic failure while towing folks in surrounding vehicles could be injured or killed. Again being spot on with where things are located in the RV changing how the weight is carried and ratings. IIRC Towing capacity of vehicles started to "Change" around 2011 when new measuring regulations came into play. That led to a a perceived drop in towing capacity of vehicles. In reality the regulations said you couldn't use the stripped out version of a vehicle with one person in it as a base for capacity for every version of a vehicle anymore. Less of a change and more of a modernization of what vehicles had become. And because this isn't long enough already lol. What do you think about the frame manufacturer weld quality vs RV manufacturer QA acceptance? Are they capable of making good welds in a post covid world or is sub par work just being accepted?
Interesting, I haven’t had any issues with my Airstream frame. Good luck, I hope GD stands behind whatever the inspection company report says, you deserve to have this behind you.
Come on man......moving weight around???? That dog don't hunt....the frame should not fail due to moving furniture,period.....if it does that frame wasn't strong enough in the first place....
What is missing is a standard across the board. Weight distribution frames are not good enough total weight overall is what should dictate total strength of the frames.
I'm guessing that both Lipper and Grand Design have liability insurance. If someone cc:d those insurers and notified them that one or both parties were so badly negilgent that a high speed multivehicle crash was extremely likely to result...it is incredible how quickly a company will respond to a notice of insurance suspension. I had an AC power problem (the kind that burns buildings down) that the electric company said "Oh yeah, we know that building, its an interior problem, not ours." Landlord said "So what? Your lights work, right?" His attitude changed after I let the insurer know about it. Real fast.
While I agree with you to a certain degree. It appears you have completely changed 180 degrees now that things have possibly changed to your benefit and due to the internet this type of issue is getting more widely known. You and nor any other consumer should have had to go to such lengths for Grand Design to step up and do the right thing! Their common excuse is the roads are trash, but they know that before they ever build an RV, so they should be accounting for the roads in their design! Lippert as well has a duty and obligation to build to proper standards and capabilities! If they know the manufacturers make changes they should be building to a higher standard. Lippert can say “no” and enforce a standard they know or perceive to be inadequate! Lippert and the manufacturers are both to blame to some degree because they both have parts of the whole trailer that “must” work together!
Thanks for your comments, but I have not changed my position. I'm just glad they agreed to pay for a 3rd party inspection. What the inspection reveals, it still needs to be repaired or totaled and then GD had to make it right. They have not agreed to any of this yet.
We looked at yet another Brinkley, a G4000, yesterday, and I just can't see what the hype is all about. Excellent storage? For sure! Somewhat better workmanship? Sure. Earth shattering? Nope. Found loose trim on this unit. Another had just arrived with a broken puck light in the bathroom hanging by the wires. Vinyl wrapped chip-board cabinet face frames in a $190K unit? No full body paint. No Morryde IS suspension.
I found exactly that at the Tampa show when they were first introduced. I asked about the wrapped chip-board. Their reply was it was a prototype and the actual production unit would be solid wood styles and cabinet fronts.
My apologies for the correction, but they do not use chip board for cabinets on any of their models and the G4000 does have the Morryde CRE 3000 suspension with the wet bolts. As to the loose trim, where was this trim? Because they really don't have much if any trim because they build to such tight tolerances they don't use trim except at the windows and doors. The light, that obviously happened during transportation, easy fix...
I have a background in mechanical engineering and reverse engineering so, of course, I haven’t found fault with Lippert itself like he said, they build things to specs of the manufacturer. There were only a couple things I didn’t like about the Brinkley nothing major honestly, but I also haven’t researched their frame system. So from my point of view, you either go with a motorhome with a proven frame, design or spacecraft.
We are all excited including GD! I think we are moving in the right direction. This could be good for PNP as well. I’m optimistic that we will see great things from GD and its decision makers.
Good luck. I hope they take responsibility for their mistakes. These big companies cutting corners to make more profit while hurting the little ones. Terrible business practices.
You are spot on about Lippert. They are only working off the specs the RV manufacturers are giving them. This is all on the RV manufacturers. If they weren't cheating corner to try to save money these issue would not be there. They build these newer units like crap. Im glad GD is working with you, but i have been reading so many horror stories about GD, and a lot of them are not being covered by GD. I am waiting for GD to have class action law suits against them. I call it carma, coming back to bite them in the ass. I hope if it happens, they loose the case. Sorry if they are the one to take the hit. But maybe if they loose enough $$, all the other RV manufacturers will take the hint and start to build quality RVs instead of the crap they are putting out.
Good luck i hope they do what they say because they are having a hell of a time with this frame failure thing and ducking the problem and all you folks that are UA-camrs are just killing it with what is going on with these shitty frames. I know what I would do if I was the owner of Lippert I would disassociate my good name with G.D. before they drag them too down this mud hole because the sad thing is G.D. when they first can out were the Brinkley of the industry now they have become like the Thor-n of the RV industry and it is so sad because they use to be great. Great video.
Based on your understanding Lippert should only sell to camper RV companies with no warranty expressed or implied. This takes the fun out of building off from specifications. Build a variant it fails and they are 100% responsible. No call the other guy. Let them send an inspector to Lippert and if accepted then they accept any problem associated with it. One stop warranty. Wow what a novel idea taking responsibility for what you sell.😊
Exactly Grand Design is wholly responsible for what they accepted from Lippert. Don't use the frame off spec. If the frame fails and all specifications were followed then Grand Design needs to fight it out with Lippert; not the customer. If Grand Design didn't adhere to the plans then they need to go look in a mirror for the root cause.
The manufacturer can specify different qualities of steel (36ksi, 50ksi, etc), but the engineer signing off on the frame has to design it for the loads subjected. Different grades of steel have different bending and shear properties and these properties all play into the connection design. A stiffer member will tend to induce higher loading at the connections. However, a higher grade steel will span farther with less bracing. Its a dynamic calculation.
This is also the same with Thomas Payne Furniture. The covering that is pealing is CHOSEN by the RV builder. Same thing, the frame is designed by the RV builder and not Lippert.
Glad they are helping you. BUT. if moving a refrigerator. A couple feet caused frame to crack well that frame was way to weak to start with. Refrigerator probably weighs no more than around a 100 pds
Well I feel they weigh a bit more than that, 19 cubic foot frig I believe weighs in at 430 lbs empty. I agree your part the frame was not built strong enough...
BOTTOM LINE is they building this overengineered junk for stupid amount of money. And people are buying it and getting screwed. Hopefully manufacturers will get sued over it
Nice video. If I may say your video audio the last bunch of releases has been a bit muffled and seems your mic if very far away. GD on site for the inspection is very interesting news. I am a GD owner of a 5th wheel so my views are well founded on responsibility of a manufacturer. I am very happy to see you and Grand Design come to some arrangement. American Welding Society has certified inspectors. In order for GD to make changes and prove your point you will have to inspect at that level. This also will give you an out for insurance I feel.... or trigger interest from the feds for other rv personal with same issue. A tweaked main frame is salvage in my opinion. I look forward to the next video.
The inspectors are certified welders and trailer engineers, but they are not from Grand Design or Lippert, so we will have a true 3rd party inspection.
If lippert, being a company that builds frames, is told to build a specific frame, it’s up to lippert to tell them either yes this is strong enough, or no….its not.
TOTALLY WRONG! Lippert has no idea what is actually going to be built on the frame or how it will be loaded by the end user. Their job is to construct the frame as designed by the customer nothing more
@@waltfriedrich7631if they are made aware on the frames not holding up because of the box the manufacturers bolt to them then they have a legal responsibility to address that with the manufacturer. And Lippert has had frame issues on various models dating back at least 10 years. So Lippert is well aware that their frames can be subject to failure which means they have a legal and moral responsibility to oversee just how thier product is being utilized by their customers (RV manufacturers).
@@TheMinnow101 the frame issues go back at least 20 years. Again it is the coach designer and builder responsible not Lippert. They have no control over what is actually built on the frame or how the owner uses it or loads it.
@@TheMinnow101 as far as legal obligations...none per the lawyer I have spoken with. In fact it was his opinion that if they did say something they would be liable. Just like if you hired a contractor to do a job and it was done incorrectly before he touched it he is then liable since the last to touch is now responsible
I've only recently become a subscriber to your channel; approx. (2) videos. However, I have been following similar complaints as your's through other channels.With all due respect towards you I hope you obtain the results that you desire. My thoughts are with/for all of the people who do not have a youtube channel that cannot apply pressure like I witnessed in the one video of yours that I watched. I'm pretty sure that more of your videos had more heated content towards G.D. & the R.V. industry. So my point is that those without a y.t. channel is going to have a MUCH harder time in getting a company representative to address their problem/problem's. Sad Situation!! Have a great day!! Illinois, USA
Yes, Larry it's all sad this is happening to 1000's of people that have a Grand Design product. I hope with what I'm doing, I can help everyone find a solution to solve their issues by doing what I'm doing.
@@TonyBenton0728 I am piss that everything he said in this video is wrong, and he is either has no clue or he is being told what to say ! And I know a lot about this and it sure seems to me he is using lipperts words !
Tony, to be clear, know one tells me what to say, ever! I speak from my experience and observations as well as my knowledge as an engineer. I'm not paid off or influenced but shiny objects. I'm very sorry you don't agree with what I say or describe. My goal is to inform with the hope I'm helping someone watching on how to deal with what they might be facing or dealing with similar issues.
even if they fix the frame you need to get at lease a 5 year warranty on all the other parts the take apart,, I still say give you a new RV and let them deal with fixing on their time..
In your case, I think the recent change in GD is only because of your channel and all the social media exposure. I was just at a local RV show yesterday. While looking at a very Nice 2024 Solitude, the GD rep came into the trailer and as soon as I asked what is GD doing to address the Frame issues for owners, he turned and left the trailer without a word; he didn't even want to talk about it. I loved it, I had time to roam all the products without a sales or factory reps. This tells me it's still a very sore spot and they either don't have plans to address it or a solution. Too bad, RV shows would be the perfect setting to show the "internet informed" public what they're doing about frame issues and proactively addressing the white elephant in the room. Too bad, I really liked the Solitude, but decided to go with an Alliance Paradigm because of a nice product and the great ownership support from Alliance.
I understand your feelings about what Lippert should be responsible for. But Lippert has its own research and development and has been in the business for a long time. Their lawyers know how to negotiate a contract that does not put them at risk! Meanwhile, I can find no information that says the chassis manufacturing is compliant with or has received ISO9000 certification. So let’s not be letting anyone off the hook just yet. I do applaud GD and Winnebago Industries for stepping up another level, especially since I have a GD XLS 23LDE which works pretty well.
Doubt we will ever see ISO9000 as a benchmark in the RV industry. Not saying it would be great, but I don't think any of the manufactures could even reach halfway to those standards.
Well, we're glad you're finally getting some action from GD to make this right, hopefully. They've taken a serious p.r. hit throughout the rv industry on this issue. Everyone at the Houston rv show was talking about it.
Well I would have to say, Lippert is responsible along with the manufacture. Lipoert can’t simply day we build to the manufactures spec if they know the frame is not safe. Both are party to these issues! Lippert should not be in business if they are building frames that are not safe for the public. They have engineers and they are responsible to know the frames are safe or they aren’t. If the manufacture says we want a specific metal and Lippert reviews it and finds it is not suitable then they should not build it. It is like telling someone to jump off a cliff. Just because someone tells you to do it is up to you if you are dumb enough to take the leap. Seriously they are manufacturing faulty. Frames and both the manufacture and the frame builder should be liable and respnsible for the repair or building a new replacement frame
Even if Grand Designs dictate frame designs to Lippert they have their name on all the broken frames, cant be good for them. In my mind if I were Lippert I would make sure GD were not overloading the frames and make sure they are good for 85 mph on American roads because thats what is needed. If a lay person looks at a frame and the welding and design looks terrible it proba ly is. With a near monopoly on frames there is no reason to not make better quality stronger frames. Price of course is a factor so perhaps people need to be prepaired to buy a slightly smaller RV or slightly less well equipped but safer more durable RV. On the other hand accepting a slightly lower profit in return for less warrenty work and lower legal fees may also be worthwhile. Basically all of these problems are the direct result of greed and once a class a tion suit starts it will cost far more than doing it right the first time.
It’s so sad that people have to endure this crap. Obviously, the welds were not done properly, yet knowing our nations highways are NOT being maintained. They freaking SUCK! Until and unless the manufacturer of said frames go the extra mile, this will continue. It’s very sad. So glad I bought Keystone products.
like I said do some research. Not all Keystones failed just like not all GD have failed....I'm sure if the truth were known it is a small percentage. It should be zero but anything man makes can and will break at some point.@@TERoss-jk9ny
@@MyBucketListDay good luck . We was thinking about a grand design toy hauler. But till the dust settles we will stick with are old 35 foot class a 17 years never a break down in 88 thousand miles . Just found your channel today . Subscribed . Good details..
So Lippert is not design responsible? In other words, for example, GD is responsible for and owns the frame design? GD owns the drawings and dictates directly to Lippert what they will build?
@@waltfriedrich7631 That means that GD is also responsible for the quality of those frames and the buck stops there. The common denominator in all of these cases is GD and how they are treating so many customers so poorly. I have a heartland TT, I know made by Thor which is just as bad. Thank you. Keep up the work you are doing. It makes a big difference.
Wait just a minute. Are you saying that Lippert doesn't have in a contract exactly what the RV manufacture can do with the frame? If they don't they are stupid. Also I don't care what a manufacture wants if it is sub standard if I were Lippert I would not build it. No exceptions period and exclamation point. I certainly believe what you are saying but just shows the lack of values at Lippert if this is true.
You are wrong....the coach manufacturer designs the frame and Lippert builds it. They don't know what will be built on that frame. That is how it works.
@@danrandall794 just as I said that is how it works. If Lippert does something outside the design then they should be corrected by the customer. I was a rep in the industry and know how it works. That is also how most manufacturing works.
2 inches of icing on a turd doesn’t make it a cake..
😂😂😂
That's right don't matter how much lipstick you put on a pig it still a pig
Wish GD would take responsibility for Paving New Paths and others who have had this issue. The frame is a manufacturer defect that needs to be recalled.
Hopefully, GD will see this and realize this.
Me too! I was seriously considering buying a new Solitude. I had it picked out, but won't get it until this issue is fixed. A company has to be responsible for its mistakes. Also, customer service is important, and it is obviously lacking.
All Grand Designs have not solved this issue yet. They are still in denial there is a problem.
Glad they are at least trying to work it out for you. Hopefully they cover the needed repairs too. They need to do the same for Paving New Paths and others.
I hope you are going to drop this thing like a hot potato once its fixed....
Stay tuned....
I think it'd be a little bit more excited after they pay the complete bill, not just the inspection. We'll see what happens in the next video!
YT channel Paving New Paths hasn’t had such luck. Most of the fifth wheels on the market are junk.
Agreed and yes Kevin is in a bind. We are talking each week.
I’m happy for you. It’s a shame that many others aren’t getting any assistance. This problem is going to exist until someone gets seriously hurt or killed. Things need to change with the RV industry. They are married to this problem
I hope they take care of Kevin he’s a great person and his family.
He bought his rig second hand and as such has never had a warranty.
We have decided to stay clear of Grand Design after hearing how many people are having problems with the framework. Thanks for sharing your experience.
I haven’t seen a class action yet and it surprises me due to the number of people having these issues.
Great information and surprised Grand Design is working with you.
Us too!
Lippert still has some of the blame. Their welding is horrible! I was a certified welding inspector for years. I have never seen a lippert frame that would pass a structural weld inspection.
Good to know, We will find this out very soon. Are you in Florida, would welcome you to come see this inspection live.
As of 2013 all Lippert welders are certified....the articles are out there
@@waltfriedrich7631100 pct false bs !!!! ,
That may be, but I know someone that has been in their factory and they weren't impressed with what they saw. Employee job and material quality combined.
Certifications mean they know how. Doesn't mean they take the necessary time to do things correctly. I know people in a ton of trades that are journeymen, or certified in certain skills. I wouldn't let them hang a picture frame on my sister's walls
Great news! Everyone will benefit from this 3rd party inspection!! This frame problem has become an industry nightmare and they need to pay attention! Looking forward to future videos about how it goes! Smart move too to film everything; fairness to all involved!!
We shopped for months and looked at every brand available last December through March 2023. We got a Jayco and their frame is integrated with the tongue unlike most that are welded underneath. I’m no engineer but 100% guarantee it’s much stronger. None are perfect but really happy that Jayco uses plywood, their roof structure is way stronger than most. We’ve had a few minor things like a slide seal wasn’t working properly but Jayco took care of it. My local RV dealer A&L RV has been phenomenal. A week to get parts, a week for the repair. I also bought a stick and tin which are easier to fix and have less overall problems, just a little heavy.
We bought our 2022 Solitude new and we have had a few issues since day one. The rig is now out of warranty but Grand Design offered to have it hauled back to Elkhart on their dime and they fixed all of our issues. Hopefully they do the same for you.
Good luck with the inspection! Hope Blue Ox Inspections is hired for it!!
Lippert knows exactly what the manufactures are doing.
Unless you've already had the inspection and got the film "in the can", it is doubtful gtand design is gonna let you film the inspection. As you'll recall, you weren't allowed to film the first repair.
Well this is not a Grand Design shop and the owner of the shop has already agreed to the filming. We have already discussed this.
@@MyBucketListDay Time will tell. If GD is footing the bill, they'll definitely have say over your ability to film. Now if you are paying, thats a different matter.
I hear you when Lippert agrees to build the trailer frame, they should at least make it the best THAT FRAME CAN BE. The welds should be good, inspected, etc
Hey Jeff, glad to see GD is working with you to resolve the issues, it was great running into you at the Brinkley booth at the show, we are actually picking up our new rig tomorrow. Larry
Hearing all these frame horror stories its great that you are getting assistance. Just really sad that Paving New Path's life has been upended by Grand Design and folks are attacking their sponsors now trying to cancel them. For these reasons I wont celebrate GD with you or ever buy one but looking forward to seeing the outcome of your rig for future knowledge with my own 5th wheel. Thank you for sharing the information.
Well I'm not celebrating anything at this point. Lets see what the 3rd party inspectors say.
I own a GD travel trailer and have had a ton of issues with it (slide, controllers, leaks, seals, etc...). GD has been excellent to work with, even well outside warranty period. In fact they extended my warranty into our 3rd year. Obviously it would be nice if we never had these problems in the first place, but they definitely have stood behind their product in our case.
GD's reply supposedly was "PWP bought it used. No warranty from us."
Too bad they’re not treating all their customers that way🥴
You had a ton of issues with your GD RV. They were forced to extend your warranty to a 3rd year? Well, thats a red flag not to buy.
You are very lucky, but I have not heard this kind of experience from anyone. 1000's have reached out to me with all horror stories.
I have been following Paving New Paths for some time. Both of them are intelligent, informative and honest. I question whether or not Grand Design has the same integrity. Regardless of being the original owner or not GD should stand behind their product even if it is out of warranty. These failures could cause serious injury of death to innocent people. I am in the market for a new RV. I had decided on a GD unit after considering a number of manufacturers. I will say that based on the bad publicity GD is earning for itself I am putting my purchase on hold.
I was about to pull the trigger on a Grand Design Momentum (new 23 model with heavy discount). I owned a solitude for a few years and never had a catastrophe but I’m seeing a trend downward with customer service. I’m now holding off and looking at Brinkley… appreciate your reviews and other UA-camrs!
You videos are great. You are very knowledgeable and explain your situation. Paving new Paths are another incredible channel and they had the same rig as you with very similar problems.
Wish GD worked it out with them.
Good news. Now lets hope that they step up to the plate and do right.
Grand Design are not even in the running anymore . And originally, I was considering them as number 1.
No matter what they do or don’t do for those affected, I’m done. It’s absolutely not worth it.
I’m with ya 💯.
Was considering an upgrade to a 5th wheel from our mid - sized North Trail pull behind, & the GD 324MBS (formally 31MB) was on the short list….
Not Now! Not even sure about a 5th wheel in general, and sure as hell not a GD! 😂🤣🤣
Think we’ll keep our lil’ box on wheels & maybe just get a nice open bow boat. 🚤
@@jerrodj4963 I’m considering wanderlusting for my retirement in an RV. And nothing major just like every 2-3 weeks new area, I’m not going to be pounding miles like some full time RV’ers do. I’ve learned there’s lots to do, you just gotta look. I need it to be comfortable, big enough, have no want to be cooped up in some class C, I want to be able to cook.
I have an industrial leather sewing machine and I industrial sew and make seat cushions, patio coverings even awnings, so I need a toy hauler. I can’t think of much else nicer than sewing on a nice day with the patio up and animals underfoot enjoying the weather. And then a couple weeks later I can move and change my view.
So I’m leaning Brinkley. I have issues they use Lippert frames. I’ve spoken to them about it. When I buy I’m going to ask for the spec sheets on the frame and supports and we will see how it goes.
@@jerrodj4963 PS nice Vettes BTW
This seems to be the general consensus with everyone these days...
Could you imagine the problems with a house if you changed the floor plan but not the foundation supporting it. The RV MFG are making a calculated risk assessment of the possible failure rate versus total built and sold units. If they save 5 million dollars by not redesigning and upgrading the frame for a new model and only have 1 million in warranty issues on the total sold of said model, then they are still money ahead.
As someone who was in the “it’s Lippert’s fault” camp, I really appreciate your in depth clarification on this issue. It has given me pause. Thank you.👍🏼😎
You are welcome Sir
You need to get a full set of Grand Design structural drawings that Lippert builds from. This is needed to know who is responsible for metal size or thickness issues, and all weld specifications. Are welds called out be GD or Lippert, were the welds made to the drawings, etc?
I strongly suggest you hire a structural engineer capable of doing calculations. A good Structural Engineer would be able to discuss GD engineers calcs if something looks in error. So far you have an agreement for an inspection only. GD will be looking for the fastest way out. Especially if you’re putting this inspection on UA-cam. Best wishes! Kevin
Thanks Kevin. I have the Lippert drawings and the recommended repair process.
This is sooo exciting! Hopefully they take care of you and everybody else. It would be the greatest thing they could do to save the brand! Our is at their facility for other issues, hoping they inspect everything including the frame, and make everything right. Praying for everyone involved.
You need to have a frame inspection in writing from them. Don’t hope, demand.
I wish you luck.
Hey Geoff, are you going to make a video responding to BTBRVs video about frame flex and interview with lippert.? It does not mention you specifically but obviously blaming the RV, owners for the frame flex damage. Seems like lippert made a deal with JD to deliver their message about frame flex, and basically its not them!. Larry
It’s good of GD to cover that inspection. Hopefully you have a good outcome and they get you all fixed up I have heard so many stories of GB dropping the ball and leaving the owners stranded (specifically Paving New Paths and countless others) They need to do something drastic on their end to improve the quality of their RV’s and to get some positive PR going or I foresee them going belly up and being involved in a massive class action lawsuit. They need to be held responsible for all the disposable trailers they have pumped out with inadequate engineering and insufficient frames.
I'm hoping for a good outcome, and I agree. GD needs to do something to fix all the bad PR.
I really appreciate your opinion. We have decided to go with Brinkley for our next RV. Hope everything works out for you. Keep doing what you do.
Thanks for all you’ve put into this . I’m sure it will benefit others.
I hope so too!
Good to hear! Now you should think about why this happened. The way almost all 5th wheels are built, with the exceptions of DRV and Riverstone is to use aluminum in the upper deck and in such a way that is not structural. The drop frame is simply a vertical beam tied to a horizontal beam. That is tied to the pin box which is tied to the bed of the truck . So it becomes a giant lever. The truck hits a bump before the trailer and puts pressure on the deck. Then the trailer hits the bump and puts the opposite pressure onto the deck. DRV and Riverstone run heavy steel framing across the top of the cargo opening.
DRV also uses heavy steel angle brace.
For a major portion of 5th wheels the method that most of the manufacturers use is adequate. However if it is not…
So when they “fix” this they typically remove the sidewalls, repair the cracked metal, and add some angle bracing. There is a guy who had a Beacon who went through this. Tiffin fixed it once, and then, after it broke again, he went to a place in Indiana that specializes in this repair. They showed video of the repair. I just don’t remember who, but it’s out there.
I personally thought about this a lot. To me, the best band aid is to decouple the bed of the truck from the deck the trailer. I did this by purchasing a trailer save hitch. So now when the truck hits a bump,,I’m not applying immediate pressure to the deck. My 2 cents. Hope that helps.
Keep up the great work. You both are awesome regardless of what some people think. Yes you need an RV inspection new or used. I never ever used to think about getting one done on a new RV but you have changed my mind.
Thanks for the update. Your issues seem to have taken a positive turn. Keeping my fingers crossed that everything is resolved to your satisfaction
Hope so..
I subscribed because you tell it like it is. I’m building our trailer myself because I worked in Elkhart Indiana and I KNOW they’re garbage.
My small 6X12 enclosed cargo trailer has polycore skin, and a base price of $4400. I figure I’ll have around $11K into it when finished, but will be better quality than anything mass produced at any price under $250K.
Do you have any opinion good or bad about polycore ?
I think I can trust your opinion.
Thank you. 👍👍
You hit the nail on the head, while company A makes the frame, the material choice and design are primarily on the spec of the RV manufacturer and there is only so much a sub contractor can do before the RV manufacturer will pull the contract and go with someone else who won't ask questions or push back.
I think you mention in one of your other videos that you have a background in engineering and product design (though not in RV's). I feel like you are uniquely qualified for the follow up questions.
Since there is a safety factor to RV's as they are designed to be towed on highways and public roads is it time to create regulations to mandate an increase the factors of safety? Or maybe frame rating? If there is a catastrophic failure while towing folks in surrounding vehicles could be injured or killed.
Again being spot on with where things are located in the RV changing how the weight is carried and ratings. IIRC Towing capacity of vehicles started to "Change" around 2011 when new measuring regulations came into play. That led to a a perceived drop in towing capacity of vehicles. In reality the regulations said you couldn't use the stripped out version of a vehicle with one person in it as a base for capacity for every version of a vehicle anymore. Less of a change and more of a modernization of what vehicles had become.
And because this isn't long enough already lol. What do you think about the frame manufacturer weld quality vs RV manufacturer QA acceptance? Are they capable of making good welds in a post covid world or is sub par work just being accepted?
Interesting, I haven’t had any issues with my Airstream frame. Good luck, I hope GD stands behind whatever the inspection company report says, you deserve to have this behind you.
I so agree with that, thanks
Glad you are getting it inspected and GD is footing the bill. Hopefully they find a solution.
Your going to laugh at this one. they lied, they told me the day before the inspection they are not coming and not paying. Those bastards.
they ought to be destructively testing one of each model to the failure point before before they are offered to the public.
Come on man......moving weight around???? That dog don't hunt....the frame should not fail due to moving furniture,period.....if it does that frame wasn't strong enough in the first place....
If they would build it right to the start with they would not have these problems
What is missing is a standard across the board. Weight distribution frames are not good enough total weight overall is what should dictate total strength of the frames.
Agree, Horse trailers and cargo trailers don't have this issue.
I'm guessing that both Lipper and Grand Design have liability insurance. If someone cc:d those insurers and notified them that one or both parties were so badly negilgent that a high speed multivehicle crash was extremely likely to result...it is incredible how quickly a company will respond to a notice of insurance suspension.
I had an AC power problem (the kind that burns buildings down) that the electric company said "Oh yeah, we know that building, its an interior problem, not ours."
Landlord said "So what? Your lights work, right?" His attitude changed after I let the insurer know about it. Real fast.
Good luck
Sounds like that’s really good news for you and thank you so very much for all the information
You are so welcome
Great, glad to here they are doing something.
Yep, lets see what happens after the inspection.
While I agree with you to a certain degree. It appears you have completely changed 180 degrees now that things have possibly changed to your benefit and due to the internet this type of issue is getting more widely known. You and nor any other consumer should have had to go to such lengths for Grand Design to step up and do the right thing! Their common excuse is the roads are trash, but they know that before they ever build an RV, so they should be accounting for the roads in their design! Lippert as well has a duty and obligation to build to proper standards and capabilities! If they know the manufacturers make changes they should be building to a higher standard. Lippert can say “no” and enforce a standard they know or perceive to be inadequate! Lippert and the manufacturers are both to blame to some degree because they both have parts of the whole trailer that “must” work together!
Thanks for your comments, but I have not changed my position. I'm just glad they agreed to pay for a 3rd party inspection. What the inspection reveals, it still needs to be repaired or totaled and then GD had to make it right. They have not agreed to any of this yet.
We looked at yet another Brinkley, a G4000, yesterday, and I just can't see what the hype is all about. Excellent storage? For sure! Somewhat better workmanship? Sure. Earth shattering? Nope. Found loose trim on this unit. Another had just arrived with a broken puck light in the bathroom hanging by the wires. Vinyl wrapped chip-board cabinet face frames in a $190K unit? No full body paint. No Morryde IS suspension.
I found exactly that at the Tampa show when they were first introduced. I asked about the wrapped chip-board. Their reply was it was a prototype and the actual production unit would be solid wood styles and cabinet fronts.
@@ourvlife1 They certainly have a lot of people buffaloed with marketing BS.
@@ourvlife1 They certainly have a lot of folks buffaloed with marketing BS.
I dont think people realize how much all the extra quality costs.
My apologies for the correction, but they do not use chip board for cabinets on any of their models and the G4000 does have the Morryde CRE 3000 suspension with the wet bolts. As to the loose trim, where was this trim? Because they really don't have much if any trim because they build to such tight tolerances they don't use trim except at the windows and doors. The light, that obviously happened during transportation, easy fix...
I have a background in mechanical engineering and reverse engineering so, of course, I haven’t found fault with Lippert itself like he said, they build things to specs of the manufacturer. There were only a couple things I didn’t like about the Brinkley nothing major honestly, but I also haven’t researched their frame system. So from my point of view, you either go with a motorhome with a proven frame, design or spacecraft.
If our fix doesn't work a class A DP may be in our future.
There are 2 videos of the frame Brinkley designed. It is very different and heavy guage materials
We are all excited including GD! I think we are moving in the right direction. This could be good for PNP as well. I’m optimistic that we will see great things from GD and its decision makers.
Good luck. I hope they take responsibility for their mistakes. These big companies cutting corners to make more profit while hurting the little ones. Terrible business practices.
Amen
Did you change the pin box? That could be the cause of the so called frame issue.
The background music makes it hard to hear you
Lippert is at fault with their frame design! The Manufacturer also is at fault!
You are spot on about Lippert. They are only working off the specs the RV manufacturers are giving them. This is all on the RV manufacturers. If they weren't cheating corner to try to save money these issue would not be there. They build these newer units like crap. Im glad GD is working with you, but i have been reading so many horror stories about GD, and a lot of them are not being covered by GD. I am waiting for GD to have class action law suits against them. I call it carma, coming back to bite them in the ass. I hope if it happens, they loose the case. Sorry if they are the one to take the hit. But maybe if they loose enough $$, all the other RV manufacturers will take the hint and start to build quality RVs instead of the crap they are putting out.
Good luck i hope they do what they say because they are having a hell of a time with this frame failure thing and ducking the problem and all you folks that are UA-camrs are just killing it with what is going on with these shitty frames. I know what I would do if I was the owner of Lippert I would disassociate my good name with G.D. before they drag them too down this mud hole because the sad thing is G.D. when they first can out were the Brinkley of the industry now they have become like the Thor-n of the RV industry and it is so sad because they use to be great. Great video.
Based on your understanding Lippert should only sell to camper RV companies with no warranty expressed or implied. This takes the fun out of building off from specifications. Build a variant it fails and they are 100% responsible. No call the other guy. Let them send an inspector to Lippert and if accepted then they accept any problem associated with it. One stop warranty. Wow what a novel idea taking responsibility for what you sell.😊
I hear you but at the end of the day, it says Grand Design on the side of the RV, not Lippert.
Exactly Grand Design is wholly responsible for what they accepted from Lippert. Don't use the frame off spec. If the frame fails and all specifications were followed then Grand Design needs to fight it out with Lippert; not the customer. If Grand Design didn't adhere to the plans then they need to go look in a mirror for the root cause.
Great news!
CONGRATS from Clerbrook! 😉
Ah shit I thought you were going to tell us they are going to pay for the complete repairs!
We will see, they have not agreed to that yet.
Lippert does the poor welds that I see on these units. I am not a certified Welder my Dad is and I put better welds down than I see on these frames
GD can't fix problems that they deny exist.
Wishing you the best
The manufacturer can specify different qualities of steel (36ksi, 50ksi, etc), but the engineer signing off on the frame has to design it for the loads subjected. Different grades of steel have different bending and shear properties and these properties all play into the connection design. A stiffer member will tend to induce higher loading at the connections. However, a higher grade steel will span farther with less bracing. Its a dynamic calculation.
Thanks for the feedback. I know a lot of the engineers will appreciate the detail.
Great news, happy for you !
Let's hope for a positive outcome.
Nobody is saying what the real issue is, “engineering”!
Who spec’d the frame?
This is also the same with Thomas Payne Furniture. The covering that is pealing is CHOSEN by the RV builder. Same thing, the frame is designed by the RV builder and not Lippert.
The Thomas Payne furniture is different as the material is defective. I'm having the same problem
Didnt hear that they would fix what they found, better have a lawyer to watch out for your interest.
Covered!
Glad they are helping you. BUT. if moving a refrigerator. A couple feet caused frame to crack well that frame was way to weak to start with. Refrigerator probably weighs no more than around a 100 pds
Well I feel they weigh a bit more than that, 19 cubic foot frig I believe weighs in at 430 lbs empty. I agree your part the frame was not built strong enough...
Clearly you have never moved a full size side by residential refrigerator. Maybe you were thinking of a YETI.
BOTTOM LINE is they building this overengineered junk for stupid amount of money. And people are buying it and getting screwed. Hopefully manufacturers will get sued over it
I news for you, it ain't where you put the refrigerator. It the frames are too light for what they are putting on top of it.
Agreed...
Nice video. If I may say your video audio the last bunch of releases has been a bit muffled and seems your mic if very far away. GD on site for the inspection is very interesting news. I am a GD owner of a 5th wheel so my views are well founded on responsibility of a manufacturer. I am very happy to see you and Grand Design come to some arrangement. American Welding Society has certified inspectors. In order for GD to make changes and prove your point you will have to inspect at that level. This also will give you an out for insurance I feel.... or trigger interest from the feds for other rv personal with same issue. A tweaked main frame is salvage in my opinion. I look forward to the next video.
The inspectors are certified welders and trailer engineers, but they are not from Grand Design or Lippert, so we will have a true 3rd party inspection.
@@MyBucketListDay sounds great!!!
Doubt they will pay for repairs, sounds like they're just throwing you a bone.
If lippert, being a company that builds frames, is told to build a specific frame, it’s up to lippert to tell them either yes this is strong enough, or no….its not.
TOTALLY WRONG! Lippert has no idea what is actually going to be built on the frame or how it will be loaded by the end user. Their job is to construct the frame as designed by the customer nothing more
@@waltfriedrich7631if they are made aware on the frames not holding up because of the box the manufacturers bolt to them then they have a legal responsibility to address that with the manufacturer. And Lippert has had frame issues on various models dating back at least 10 years. So Lippert is well aware that their frames can be subject to failure which means they have a legal and moral responsibility to oversee just how thier product is being utilized by their customers (RV manufacturers).
@@TheMinnow101 the frame issues go back at least 20 years. Again it is the coach designer and builder responsible not Lippert. They have no control over what is actually built on the frame or how the owner uses it or loads it.
@@TheMinnow101 as far as legal obligations...none per the lawyer I have spoken with. In fact it was his opinion that if they did say something they would be liable. Just like if you hired a contractor to do a job and it was done incorrectly before he touched it he is then liable since the last to touch is now responsible
You are correct Sir.
Great to hear.
Let's hope it all works out.
Congratulations! Hope the other you tubers get the same results.
I hope everyone will get the same and get these all fixed.
I've only recently become a subscriber to your channel; approx. (2) videos. However, I have been following similar complaints as your's through other channels.With all due respect towards you I hope you obtain the results that you desire. My thoughts are with/for all of the people who do not have a youtube channel that cannot apply pressure like I witnessed in the one video of yours that I watched. I'm pretty sure that more of your videos had more heated content towards G.D. & the R.V. industry. So my point is that those without a y.t. channel is going to have a MUCH harder time in getting a company representative to address their problem/problem's. Sad Situation!! Have a great day!! Illinois, USA
Yes, Larry it's all sad this is happening to 1000's of people that have a Grand Design product. I hope with what I'm doing, I can help everyone find a solution to solve their issues by doing what I'm doing.
I hope that you succeed & all parties with G.D. issues are made whole. Thanks for doing what you do!! Illinois@@MyBucketListDay
Congratulations
Thanks, hope we find a solution!
Good luck👍
Thanks, appreciate the support
So you brought off to say good things now! Be honest did Jason lippert get to you?
@@TonyBenton0728 I am piss that everything he said in this video is wrong, and he is either has no clue or he is being told what to say ! And I know a lot about this and it sure seems to me he is using lipperts words !
I'm not saying good things yet, but is it not a good sign that they agreed to have their work inspected by a third party?
Tony, to be clear, know one tells me what to say, ever! I speak from my experience and observations as well as my knowledge as an engineer. I'm not paid off or influenced but shiny objects. I'm very sorry you don't agree with what I say or describe. My goal is to inform with the hope I'm helping someone watching on how to deal with what they might be facing or dealing with similar issues.
even if they fix the frame you need to get at lease a 5 year warranty on all the other parts the take apart,, I still say give you a new RV and let them deal with fixing on their time..
Lets see what the inspectors say...
In your case, I think the recent change in GD is only because of your channel and all the social media exposure. I was just at a local RV show yesterday. While looking at a very Nice 2024 Solitude, the GD rep came into the trailer and as soon as I asked what is GD doing to address the Frame issues for owners, he turned and left the trailer without a word; he didn't even want to talk about it. I loved it, I had time to roam all the products without a sales or factory reps. This tells me it's still a very sore spot and they either don't have plans to address it or a solution. Too bad, RV shows would be the perfect setting to show the "internet informed" public what they're doing about frame issues and proactively addressing the white elephant in the room. Too bad, I really liked the Solitude, but decided to go with an Alliance Paradigm because of a nice product and the great ownership support from Alliance.
Thats a great story, thanks for sharing. You made the right choice on the RV, congrats.
I understand your feelings about what Lippert should be responsible for. But Lippert has its own research and development and has been in the business for a long time. Their lawyers know how to negotiate a contract that does not put them at risk! Meanwhile, I can find no information that says the chassis manufacturing is compliant with or has received ISO9000 certification. So let’s not be letting anyone off the hook just yet. I do applaud GD and Winnebago Industries for stepping up another level, especially since I have a GD XLS 23LDE which works pretty well.
Doubt we will ever see ISO9000 as a benchmark in the RV industry. Not saying it would be great, but I don't think any of the manufactures could even reach halfway to those standards.
That’s good news.
Don’t let gd guy out of your site with the inspector by their self. U show up way before he does
Well, we're glad you're finally getting some action from GD to make this right, hopefully. They've taken a serious p.r. hit throughout the rv industry on this issue. Everyone at the Houston rv show was talking about it.
Yes, it was talked about heavily at the Tampa show too. I had over 100 folks come to me saying they are having the same problems.
Well I would have to say, Lippert is responsible along with the manufacture. Lipoert can’t simply day we build to the manufactures spec if they know the frame is not safe. Both are party to these issues! Lippert should not be in business if they are building frames that are not safe for the public. They have engineers and they are responsible to know the frames are safe or they aren’t. If the manufacture says we want a specific metal and Lippert reviews it and finds it is not suitable then they should not build it. It is like telling someone to jump off a cliff. Just because someone tells you to do it is up to you if you are dumb enough to take the leap. Seriously they are manufacturing faulty. Frames and both the manufacture and the frame builder should be liable and respnsible for the repair or building a new replacement frame
I do hear what your saying, I can't find any evidence that this is the case. Can you share this fact?
Just to let you know somehow I had been unsubscribed to your channel along with several others that I follow about camping/campers and the industry.
Even if Grand Designs dictate frame designs to Lippert they have their name on all the broken frames, cant be good for them. In my mind if I were Lippert I would make sure GD were not overloading the frames and make sure they are good for 85 mph on American roads because thats what is needed.
If a lay person looks at a frame and the welding and design looks terrible it proba ly is. With a near monopoly on frames there is no reason to not make better quality stronger frames.
Price of course is a factor so perhaps people need to be prepaired to buy a slightly smaller RV or slightly less well equipped but safer more durable RV. On the other hand accepting a slightly lower profit in return for less warrenty work and lower legal fees may also be worthwhile.
Basically all of these problems are the direct result of greed and once a class a tion suit starts it will cost far more than doing it right the first time.
Its not hard to design a strong safe frame. They just have to want to..
glad to hear! hopefully that samsung fridge keeps cooling. class action lawsuit in works
Yes, CA can be very persuasive...
It’s so sad that people have to endure this crap.
Obviously, the welds were not done properly, yet knowing our nations highways are NOT being maintained. They freaking SUCK! Until and unless the manufacturer of said frames go the extra mile, this will continue. It’s very sad.
So glad I bought Keystone products.
FYI... Keystone has had frame failure issues for 20 plus years....do some research
This has been an issue for Keystone as well a few years back.
@@waltfriedrich7631: My first was a 2003 model, second one was a 2006. Went all over with them. I guess I was just “blessed”.
like I said do some research. Not all Keystones failed just like not all GD have failed....I'm sure if the truth were known it is a small percentage. It should be zero but anything man makes can and will break at some point.@@TERoss-jk9ny
How many toy haulers does Brinkley have on the road?
Aprox 400 so far
@@MyBucketListDay
I spoke with a Brinkley customer last week who said they were number 76 and would be getting their toy hauler possibly in March.
Look over his left shoulder. See the dent in the stainless steel door?
Whhhhhhy,whhhhhy now I can't stop looking at it 😂😂
LOL, yep thats a story, It happened when GD blew up my washer and dryer!
Did you purchase it new ?
Yes
@@MyBucketListDay good luck . We was thinking about a grand design toy hauler. But till the dust settles we will stick with are old 35 foot class a 17 years never a break down in 88 thousand miles . Just found your channel today . Subscribed . Good details..
So Lippert is not design responsible? In other words, for example, GD is responsible for and owns the frame design? GD owns the drawings and dictates directly to Lippert what they will build?
That,s correct
@@waltfriedrich7631 That means that GD is also responsible for the quality of those frames and the buck stops there. The common denominator in all of these cases is GD and how they are treating so many customers so poorly. I have a heartland TT, I know made by Thor which is just as bad. Thank you. Keep up the work you are doing. It makes a big difference.
Thanks for the comments
DJI makes a good microphone that will enhance your video quality. Please?????????
There frame's sucks
Wait just a minute. Are you saying that Lippert doesn't have in a contract exactly what the RV manufacture can do with the frame? If they don't they are stupid. Also I don't care what a manufacture wants if it is sub standard if I were Lippert I would not build it. No exceptions period and exclamation point. I certainly believe what you are saying but just shows the lack of values at Lippert if this is true.
You are wrong....the coach manufacturer designs the frame and Lippert builds it. They don't know what will be built on that frame. That is how it works.
You missed my entire point. I would not allow that.
@@danrandall794 just as I said that is how it works. If Lippert does something outside the design then they should be corrected by the customer. I was a rep in the industry and know how it works. That is also how most manufacturing works.
And that is why many are junk. RV industry needs to wake up and change.
And that is EXACTLY why many are junk.
They really hurt Paving New Paths. Good for you, but unfair for them. Unsubscribing because of GD
Yes they did, and I'm speaking with Paving new Paths on a weekly basis so we can help each other.
😒 Promo>SM