Cam; Thanks for sharing your opinions and data. and thanks for all the work you keep putting into these videos! 🙌 This video series has been a lot of work, so we really appreciate it. With most mainstream brands you can throw a rock anywhere on the internet and find 20 or 30 people's opinion about the handling or stiffness of a frame...but we're obviously not as well known, so; it's great to have more opinions and start more conversations. The "feel" of a bike is obviously very important for many people, and something that data can't express, so we definitely appreciate your feedback. Anecdotally; we have recently started to do lot more 'blind' testing and lots of the opinions expressed about "feeling" are in total contrast to the data. Many people think that wheels that actually have lower spoke tension "feel stiffer" in acceleration, because they're actually feeling the "spring" in the spokes with every pedal stroke that's pushing them forward. The question for a bike brand therefore, is should you build a bike / wheelset that *feels* fast, or one that *is* fast? (Sometimes these are the same thing, sometimes - as above - they're contradictory.) Anyway, this is turning into a wall of text. We will say we're looking forward to more back-to-back testing, as the data presented here (especially up that climb) has us scratching our heads. You keep bringing the content, we'll keep bringing the bikes. 💪
What's wrong with "asymmetric frog-leg-muscle chain stays"? 😂😂😂 Ok, that one is our bad. But re: frame sizes... we often have internal debate about this. Going forward we're sticking to "XS, S, M, L, etc" with the reach and stack listed on the frame too. Why not just "52cm" or "54cm" like western brands? Part is that these measurements were based on traditional steel frames that's not really applicable to today, but another reason is that with the rise of gravel, even top tube length, or stack and reach are hard to compare between bikes. There's already so much stuff that's confusing to new-comers to the bike industry, having a "54cm" bike where nothing on the bike measures 54cm is one that may not be needed. Again, we can see either side of the debate. As always the best solution is fit first, buy later. Go take our geometry chart and get a pro bike fit before choosing. If that's not a viable option, our team has quite a lot of experience getting people on the right bike based on your measurements and riding style. Another wall of text. Sorry.
@@CamNicholls I agree, I have found myself that too big a bike has this "heavy feeling" you mention. I think it would be a very interesting topic to compare the same bike but different sizes. I'm sure you would be surprised :) Cheers from France!
Y'know I appreciate Winspace responding to your video. Seems that they are taking your comments and acting on it. So refreshing from the world of no comment or over-preened press releases we see today. With that attitude and hunger, they'll improve their product rapidly.
@@torontogonzo Yeah i agree, there is a big contrast between Winspace & other brands like Open who sue people for criticizing their bikes. I really like Winspace's approach to feedback & social media in general 👍
@@paulewannacrackr Really because to me a first impression would be what happens when a lot of other channels get the bike, and ride it for week or so and send back the review unit.... Seems like these was a huge build process, decent amount of riding, problems addressed, and resolved before a final verdict was given.
Winspace T1500 owner here. Built up with 50mm Hypers, Conti GP5000 and SRAM RED AXS ETAP. I love how the bike feels. It’s stiff, fast and very comfy. I am often out on the bike for 150km-200km rides. There are no creaking issues with the wheels or framset. I am also yet to be beaten on the SPRINTY segment around Regents Park, London UK (if you know you know). I’m not the fastest climber because I’m a solid muscled up fella but for me the bike handles climbs well enough. All in all I am very happy with the bike. A single sample size of one review versus many others does not negate how good the bike really is.
UA-camrs need to be careful when they review chinese bikes, cause if they made a good review about winspace or any chinese bikes, ppl will said they got paid by the brands 😂😂😂. The more you said something bad about the bikes, the more people will call it a “balance” review.
This review is the best executed review I’ve watched in all my years of YouTubing from gun, car, bike videos. This was top notch professionalism and honesty.
I recently bought the winspace hyper 50mm disc wheels and they are very fast, im suprised you saw faster speeds with alloy 30mm rims. On a 20km TT at my local loop, I avged 34.5kph with my original fulcrum db3 alloy wheels and upon upgrading to the winspace 50mm on a windier day, I avged 36.7kph. Pretty massive improvement!
@@CamNicholls My buddy got a pair of Hypers and, at least with some SRAM cassettes, there are issues with the freehub binding (that's according to my friend's experience and Winspace's replies). I wonder if there might be some less obvious minor binding issues you're experiencing.
Totally agree with you, I have the hyper 38 rim brake version and they are just super reliable and I have absolutely no weird noise when riding. They are faster, lighter and comfier than my mavic cosmic. I have only ridden 2000 kms with these wheels so this issue Cam Nicholls is pointing kind a makes me nervous for the future :( I did not buy a $1200 carbon wheelset for it to be topped by a $600 alloy wheelset.
@@CamNicholls IMO there was a problem there. Presumably the Cannondale data was from a while ago, so conditions could have been very different, but the Winspace rides were presumably back to back ... assuming there wasn't a headwind (looked still in the footage and surrounded by trees), I'd say something was really wrong for the 50s to be slower, at those speeds - especially as they're lighter. Perhaps you have the pawl engagement issue with the hub and are getting significant losses there? A few people have posted about it.
I received my Lun wheels one month ago (not the hypers) and I am very very pleased, they look beautiful, are light and feel great when riding. The shipment and customer service were wonderful too... btw, your new painting is just perfection !! Nice video, bravo!!
Finally! T1500D owner here, built up with DA/Ulte parts/50mm Hyper (i wanted the 65mm), Hambini BB, weight weenie parts to 7.2 kg (15.9pds). In terms of ride feel, I understand that "heavy" feeling you have....I've been riding chinese carbon for awhile, my last bike had more "feel/livliness" to it. For me, the NVH is great (meaning its a dream ride imo), so I can get over that 'heavy' feeling you get because it still handles/accelerates very well (its like a smooth, almost gradual like power delivery). Thought your review was fine. My pair of 50mm hyper didn't get any of that spoke thing, like you I will complain how loud the hub is, but when you ride in traffic, it helps to get cars attention, so its a tradeoff worth it ig. Riding creak free and proud! woop woop!
I'd like to see the SEKA though when I went to their website they didn't have the aero frame available. At the same time, I wouldn't worry too much about complaints because you're obviously honest about your observations.
Thanks Cam for the review. It’s easy to always give bikes stand out reviews. I like to here about negative areas on bikes. I like to see where the imperfections are. What the ride comfort and handling is like. I also think you buying the Windspace was a great thing to do. Because everyone has an opinion on Chinese products.
I thank everyone for a review that is not all over the place for a product. Even though I think that you are biased by your expectations as your testing setup still has many variables in it to consider. But sometimes it comes down to subjective feelings. I rather watch your review than all the other "mainstream" bike channels. I wanted a new road bike since my first season (this is my 3rd) and I cant get one because there is no way I am able to decide. EVERY Roadbike is "super aero" and if it is
I love the guy in the hat talking into the TV! I feel like the more I age the more I am becoming him. Can we have more of him? The opening line about being a dickhead was so funny. Thanks for another good video!
Chalk this one up as another superlative review Cam. Mate, you've done well on the first impressions. Last summer I built up a aero carbon LightCarbon frame and it was very lively. So I thought.,.....this summer I moved everything (all components and wheels) over to my fav, the allez sprint disc, and the perf, speed and feel is much more lively. I think I am going to ride this allez into the ground until something comes up that I know will meet it , if not exceed this frame. Cheers, Rav
question, would this be a good buy for a older guy 59, going from a 13kilo mountain bike, im torn on what to buy, as I only want to buy once, thinking of Ribble but up for suggestions
Winspace T1500 ran 8th at Grafton to Inverell last weekend. Went up Gibraltar in 42min. Rider described bike as slightly heavier than his previous S5 but otherwise similar. I’m mystified how anything could be aero after the air departs the front end but that’s just an observation. Good for you for saying it how you see it though Cam. Good work.
Thanks for a great review Cam! you really saved me on that one cause I was actually considering this frame, Have a TREK Madone 2020 SL, really upgraded with Scribe 50+ wide aero wheels (Fantastic wheels !!!!)and Shimano Ultegra DI2 drivetrain , SLR Handlebar and stem combo, and I must say they also feel EXACTLY EXACTLY like you feel regarding a "heavy riding feel", and that said on a supposed well designed X Gen aero bike from a super innovative brand! I recently rode a Specialized Tarmac SL7 on a weekend ride (of course that the bike is around 1.3 Kg lighter) , 90K ride with climbs & descents , flats, slalom flats so I guess that was all a terrain has to offer and was blown away by the handling and the way the bike just kept me out there on the speed I tried to hang on to, going back to the Madone was hard (despite its devastating looks) I feel like I am riding a wagon now :-( , it was like the response is delayed and I felt less secure on descents and on sprints out of the saddle on the flats than on the SL7...I am considering to switch to SL7 next year or checking out more bikes on this category that are assumed to be availble like the Factor Ostro VAM...any thought about reviewing the Ostro?
Interesting review! I have the HYPER 50's and the HYPER 38's and I have had only success with these wheels. I do use the Rim Brake versions, and there have been no creaking noises and they have performed as some of the best wheels I have ever used. And over many, many years of racing, I have used almost every major brand of wheels except Shimano Wheels. The HYPER Wheels are the stiffest and most solid feeling wheels I have used with amazing acceleration. The wheels feel awesome to me! I am very happy I purchased the HYPER's. The brake surface has been outstanding and I have put the wheels through some serious abuse, and they still roll and look brand new after 1 year of use. Thankfully the HYPER wheels I have only made this perfect sounding noise of a beautiful HUB rolling so smooth and crisp. No extra noises ever from the wheels. I am looking forward to trying the HYPER 65's and compare those to the Mavic and Zipp Wheels I have used that are close to that same size. I also would like to try the Winspace Road Frames to compare those to bikes I have used in the past.
The St George team in New South Wales are racing on a Chinese brand called Pardus Evo Spark. The frame is lighter yet still aero. You may want to check this one out. I am very surprised with your analysis of the wheels I actually prefer the Hypers to my Zipp NSW 303s but each to their own.
Pardus is used by Shimano Neutral Service Cars: www.cyclingnews.com/features/shimanos-neutral-service-bikes-whats-under-the-blue-paint/ Neil Pryde sold their moulds to Pardus.
@@kamerafi Nice one. A few UCI teams are using them around the world. The Spark Evo is very impressive. You can get one fully equipped with Ultegra on Alibaba for about $2200. Aero frame is 950 grams which is up there with the best of them.
In Britain there is a bike shop in Yorkshire called Planet X. They are selling their aero bike with sram force 22 DB for £1899. The weight comes in at 8.7kg. Some of the parts are bog standard, which you can upgrade in the build process carbon rims, carbon aero bars and better lighter tyres. This brings the weight down and that build price comes in at £2999. It’s been reviewed, but only a couple of times and got 5 stars from cycling weekly. The problem is as it not a big brand named bike it never goes head to head with these, but it’s a blinking good bike. Are other brands afraid?
I figured this would be the outcome. BIG brands do pump a fair amount of money into R&D and having the pros test their stuff, etc. I too have ridden many road bike brands. Enough to say, this is good and this is not so good. My opinion is my own, but if you've ridden enough bikes, different brands etc. you WILL notice a difference. Great video! Keep them coming!
Great, honest review. Never easy when you’ve tipped money into an expensive build, to openly admit that it is underwhelming. Maybe it may be a good crit pig?
All those whiny haters are how you know you're killing it. People that watch you consistently know you're not giving unbiased opinions. Don't even give them the pleasure of acknowledging them. Love your content!
Always good honest valved review cam. For the weekend bike warrior we may not notice all the little things that you pick up on. But just from the respray you enhanced the look of the wind space , and sometimes the placebo effect of it it looks fast it will go fast is enough , 👍🚴👍🚴
An honest review Cam...I think you get what you pay for its as simple as that! I have just bought a Trifox x10 aero frame with the cheaper 60mm Winspace lun ceramic hub wheels,kitted out with sram red e-tap and trifox carbon aero bars....Its impressive and is very quick,it weighs 8.1 kilo much the same as the T1500...The workmanship on the frame is amazing confirmed by Hambini,this Trifox frame may be an option to test,at £650 usd (im in uk) it is a good bike i also run a Wilier cento 1 air with Yoeleo 60/80 wheels and sram axs e-tap its a missile on the flat but slow up climbs,and also a lovely Look 695 with dura ace di2 thats a real climbers bike being 6.9 kilo.
Good Review. I would really love to see a Yoeleo comparison. Maybe look at Elves as well (I heard they make some good direct to consumer frames). One suggestion for the long-term review and future reviews is, if technically possible add in some comparison runs on a known/preferred common wheel and tire setup swapped across all the frames. Having that additional data point of a common wheel/tire setup for all the frames would provide useful comparisons of the respective frames. Perhaps you will expand on the use of the disc wheel adapters for the Winspace wheels in your long-term review, because that part was a little confusing. It was unclear if you were adapting rim brake wheels onto a disc frame, if all Winspace wheels require adapters, if there is something unique about that frame, if that is something unique to all Winspace wheels, or if all disc wheels in general need adapters. I am on rim brakes and I don’t know all the little details of disc brake setups, so maybe it was clear to all the disc brake people.
There won't be any measurable difference distinguishable between natural variables such wind speed, direction, tyre pressure 3rd. It all buckshot and backhanders. Us cyclists are the biggest mugs on the planet spending more money on bikes than cars.
I looking forward for the Yoeleo frame review but I think the main advantages of this brand are more models available, wider color ranges, free shipping worldwide and tax free for USA, Canada, Australia.
@@k.o.mpenaflor1443 yes I havbe owned Yoeleo frames and wheels. They tend to be a bit heavy . The frames are not unique. They seem to be an open mould frame that is available from several manufacturers. Currently there is a lot of complaints about waiting over 3 months to get orders delivered
Thanks for the honest review Cam', Im writing from Ireland and enjoy your insights. I thought it was all going to be awesome but and I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of hypers so cheers for the heads up. Hope wifey is on the mend. All the best to you and yours.
With the tests I have done the Hypers wheels were the slower wheel too. The Hypers always felt slower than my old wheelset but it took me a few months to get myself to admit I may have made a mistake. Nice review!
sizing is one the challenging areas. I have CAAD10 and when I compared it with CAAD13, i found 13 to be much different. You are right about brands like Winspace, sizing/geo looks to be adjusted to smaller asians.
Great review and a bit of food for thought for those that bag premium brands indicating the frames are just pumped out in Asia. That may be true but clearly discounting the RD expended in getting to that point and as you point out years of refinement that has gone into improving a design.
Interesting that you use the Merida Reacto as a reference here. It is one of the slowest if not the slowest of the major brand aero bikes according to wind tunnel tests of RoadBike magazine. I would really love to see an independent wind tunnel test of the Winspace in comparison to at least one other major brand bike. Outdoor tests especially on different days can be really error-prone. Also Charles Ouimet arrived at 7,6kg with an Ultegra DI2 groupset (without pedals) which seems quite okay if you look at weights of bikes like the Trek Madone or Scott Foil, doesn't it? Anyway, grateful for your videos, Cam 👍
You do a great review, fair an honest, I hope you can get some more mainstream bikes around this price bracket from the manufacturers for review because a positive review here would translate to sales. Trek, Spec, Giant should be beating a path to your door!
Nice one for sticking with it. For the record, I felt you were very clear and upfront with your relationship with Winspace and what you wanted to get out of it. You went and had it scanned and made it clear you could say what you wanted. Didn't expect anything less than an honest review from you and not all that surprised it's lacking the polish of the larger brands. It's been interesting to watch form my POV, so the rest can go fuck themselves IMO. My mate got a Reacto 6000, not Di2 with those entry-level Fulcrum wheels, so I'll share this with him. Be good to see how they compare. I think the buyers for these bikes are roughly the same, whereas if you have $15-20k AUD to chuck down on a bike, you ain't gonna be buying Winspace.
Nice review, even nicer comment from Winspace. I ride the T1500, drove other top frames before, just no aero bikes. But this one is fast, and as you mentioned, it handles great. I don't know if it's the wheels, the frame, or the combo, but it feels fantastic. And it doesn't feel faster, but it seems to be faster if I check my numbers. So I am really interested in the ' blind tests' mentioned by Winspace. Your remark about size seems silly, the geometry chart shows all relevant numbers, so if you don't understand them, don't by a frame online, but go to a bikeshop. Just like clothes, you can't draw any conclusions from a size like S, M or XXL. That's why you have size charts and geometry charts. The numbers are correct, my bike fits as well as any.
Thank you for that honest review. My experience though is completely different with winspace products, although I ride the lightweight frame slc 2.0. I have the 38 and 50 hypers and I am so happy with them. The stiffness, braking performance and the sound is so great. And I have ridden lightweight meilensteins before.. maybe it is because I use rim brakes, I don‘t know but I never had wheels that performed so good as the winspace do. Next to the slc2.0 I have a Colnago C64, and there again, they are both quite the same to ride. So for sure no downsides on the chinese frame there. But, I‘ve never ridden the aeroframe, so I am really happy with this honest and great review. Thank you for that! Regards.
Have SLC with rim Hyper 38 and love them Took a few rides and love the integrated bars though the lever position was different Have changed other bikes to match Really good to deal with
@@rami1985 Hey Rami. Of course I can. Before the SLC I was riding an S-Works Tarmac SL6 (the best of the tarmacs in my opinion) and then a Colnago C64. So I can compare the SLC to pretty much the "best" bikes out there. And I have to admit, it`s not even close to being worse or cheaper or something. It rides like a beast, it`s superstiff, very light (I have fitted a SRAM Red Etap and the Winspace Hyper 38mm wheels and it is 6.4Kg without pedals) and just super fun to ride. I always feel a bit bad when saying this, but I even prefer riding the SLC over the Italian handmade Colnago which I still ride regurally, especially when climbing. The SLC is a true climbing bike and it does feel like this. You simply ascent, the power goes directly through the stiff frame and again, it`s just super fun. So I can honestly and with confidence say that you wouldn`t be disappointed when buying this frame. Please be aware that I am speaking of the rim brake version, so I have no idea about weight and stuff when it comes to disc brake.
@@samueltrumpy4433 Thanks for the reply Samuel. I'd be looking at the rim brake version too and using my current di2 groupset on there if I did make the purchase. I know etap is wireless but I assume there are channels for internal routing. How does it handle on the flats and and descending? I also prefer climbing but would consider a more traditional all round frame as opposed to a purely aero frame like the T1500 as I ride all sorts of terrain. Just out of curiosity you clearly have a couple of decent bikes (sworks c64), what made you go for the winspace?
@@rami1985 Fun thing, I just built a T1500 with a used Dura Ace Di2. You can`t route it completely internally with the Rim Brake version, but together with the winspace handlebar you only have the two braking cables and the small Di2 cable that go from the handlebar to the frame. So no big deal and almost fully hidden cables.. :D If you want a bike for all terrains I would definitely go for the SLC. The T1500 is great in the flats but as soon as you go up, you feel the heavier frame and you will be happier with the SLC for sure. To be honest, I stopped buying "traditional" bikes because first, I love building up bikes, and secondly I am a bit disappointed by the whole industry. You just don`t get more value out of a Scott, or Specialized or whatever for the price you pay. And I kind of like the fact to overtake all those superexpensive "high end" superbikes with my "cheap" selfmade roadbike. And like I said, the quality simply isn`t better when you buy an expensive bike from a big brand. You just pay a lot for it`s name..
Nice mate, excellent review. As for those that jumped ship or arced up in the comments early on...well, pretty sure you can fill in the blanks on that one.
Much more a fan of your Factor Cam, the weight on the Winspace is reminiscent of an Allez Sprint alloy... Of course a comparison with the Factor is out of the question, but I'm looking forward to a full review as that is my next bike buiild!
I also have Force 1x on one of my bikes and that drivetrain also makes that bike feel slow, it’s a gravel setup in all reality. The issue is not only poor chain alignment in 1x setups and larger jumps between gears, but even more so the strong spring in the clutch mechanism of the rear derailleur. I suggest a retest with a 2x road system.
Same ballpark as the Merida Reacto, i'd love to see how it fares against a Giant Propel Advanced, maybe not even a very recent one, as a good condition, not much ridden, secondhand market Propel from say 2 to 3 years ago would come in roughly the same price range as that Winspace T1500.
thanks for the thorough assessment...quality of workmanship/build is important but the design and engineering are where the most important qualities come through, (speaking as a designer). should be getting my hyper wheels delivered soon so interesting how you compare. I'll be comparing to a set of Hunt 50mm wheels. Nice cheeky shout out to Francis too...keep up the good work...good to see you mentioning comparing like for like at a certain price point rather than by best available across the board which is a little unfair...
I'm really enjoying your content lately! I am looking at bike frames at the moment and through brands as Winspace and Yoeleo, I've been trying to investigate the quality of Chinese roadbike parts. It's hard! Your winspace review really is the only one video I can find of someone actually checking the quality of the carbon. Now, I'm very curious what Gary would say about a lesser known Chinese brands as Trifox.. Maybe an idea for a future project?
BRING NEILL BACK, we need him! I would be grateful if you can do a video with him talking about neck pain and how to fix it! Great Job, cheers from Portugal!
Elves might be worth looking at. I bought one last year and it's been pretty good for me but I also haven't been able to put many miles on it since I got it just before winter here in the northern US. They do free custom paint, which was a big draw, and they have a fairly sizable following in China and the Philippines.
I have a SLC 2.0 and I agree it seems heavy (sluggish) to ride compared to other top end mainstream brands I’ve owned and ridden. Given the price point and with managed expectations, I think it’s a capable machine. Great review as always, Cam!
Winspace engineered their own wheels, and many are saying they are better than the top brands. So if they can do that, I am certain the can also produce a 2nd generation frame that can surpass (insert brand here) without needing 15-20 engineers.
Great review. I too have spoke creaking issues on my 65mm hyper wheels, but that is not the worst thing. They have issues with the rim hooks having high and low spots causing the tires to wobble.
Appreciate the review. Just a piece of commentary: There is no point in commenting on aerodynamics when its clear that you dont have any training in the area. Also, with the hill tests you do, it would be nice to see an average taken from 2-3 runs to improve accuracy. Cheers.
I'd recommend to add to the comparison list one British brand called Orro. I have a Venturi STC with Ultegra groupset and I was impressed with it, but I never had a high range road bike. There is a owners Facebook group and everyone looks quite happy with them. I paid for mine £2200 so if you add a good carbon set of wheels it can match perfectly the price range that you want.
Good review. For what it's worth when looking at the aerodynamics on the wide seatstays, it's becoming common. See the British Track cycling team bike from Hope. And since then other manufacturers have stepped into the trend. I would also say that if the Hyper Wheels didn't work for you then a better replacement (meaning in the same price category) of wheels would be the Zipp 303s wheelset. That probably would have done more for your riding experience than anything else. That said I imagine the geometry very likely still needs development.
You can give Devel Brand, a Philippine brand, a shot since it is used by the Nero Continental team. As for another Chinese brand, Elves or Ecnal would hover around the same range as Winspace. Cheers for this video Cam!! 💯🙌
Was considering those winspace wheels awhile back, but read some stuff about carbon spoke failures (although admittedly with other brands) and it kind of scared me off. The fact that the spokes are rubbing together doesn't fill me with confidence that they wouldn't fail midway through a descent! Good unbiased review though!
Hi Cam! Thanks alot for a review. You are 100% right with lack or R&D in Chinese companies. Bike looks more then right and speedy outside but the same fast inside. I guess that’s only one reason not to buy/wait for a new generation of Chinese frames. Cheers. Max
I drive a winspace t1500 and come from a columbus steel no aero frame. Speaking of aerodynamics I felt a big advantage by switching to winspace, and I could define a 20% improvement from steel to winspace. I don't think any good cyclist can quantify the aerodynamic difference between an aero bike and another aero bike except with sensors. In any case, winspace is an aero frame and you can feel it. In an equal comparison you would have had to use the same wheels, the same tires, the same clothing and in my opinion the same set group and perform the test on the flat, not uphill, this is a contradiction. I want to propose that you take the most modest bike you have and do the Indian climb and show us the time. The last thing 10sec in 3 min are so many are you sure about the size of the frame? This could lead you to move and swing a lot in the saddle and give you a disadvantage and could also affect the squeak of the wheels
Have you heard of Twitter Cyclone? It's a carbon aero road bike. Chinese brand and cost about USD1,450.00 with SRAM Rival groupset. Stock alloy wheels.
received my hyperspace wheels on monday but unfortunately a collision with a car on friday put me in hospital and needing surgery on my hand and trashed my frame, so the wheels will stay in the box for a few weeks while i recover (i'm fine except for finger motion and need for physio) and get insurance for a new frame etc. just adds to the anticipation. PS hard to find a rim brake frame now too...
Great video and review. Wheels do make a huge difference though so At the back of my mind I’m wondering if the “heavy” feeling would be removed by just changing to wheels in the same price range as mainstream bikes. Otherwise very interesting and looking forward to comparison with similar priced frames!
hi Cam.. i came across your videos while looking for bike fitting.. im MTB rider but since atm i'm living in UAE there is no point of having a MTB here so decided to buy my first road bike and start pedaling.. i found that mainstream bikes here are crazy expensive starting at around 7.5-8000 which translates to approx 2000€ which is not something i'm willing to spend on my first bike.. however there are some Chinese bikes that are popular here, namely Java and Pardus. Cheapest Pardus Robin Carbon with 105 groups comes at 4000, and even slightly upgraded Spark Carbon Disc is on sale for 4500 atm. Java J-Air Fuoco Pro Carbon comes at 5800 with hydraulics and looking more aero. Both are UCI approved. Those are by no means cheap bikes starting from 1000€ but significant saving compared to mainstream. Unfortunately i cant find any tests and reviews (only few from Philippines as those are also popular in SE Asia) and i see you also reviewed Seka, another Chinese bike. Do you have any info about two mentioned brands?
Cam; Thanks for sharing your opinions and data. and thanks for all the work you keep putting into these videos! 🙌 This video series has been a lot of work, so we really appreciate it. With most mainstream brands you can throw a rock anywhere on the internet and find 20 or 30 people's opinion about the handling or stiffness of a frame...but we're obviously not as well known, so; it's great to have more opinions and start more conversations. The "feel" of a bike is obviously very important for many people, and something that data can't express, so we definitely appreciate your feedback. Anecdotally; we have recently started to do lot more 'blind' testing and lots of the opinions expressed about "feeling" are in total contrast to the data. Many people think that wheels that actually have lower spoke tension "feel stiffer" in acceleration, because they're actually feeling the "spring" in the spokes with every pedal stroke that's pushing them forward. The question for a bike brand therefore, is should you build a bike / wheelset that *feels* fast, or one that *is* fast? (Sometimes these are the same thing, sometimes - as above - they're contradictory.) Anyway, this is turning into a wall of text. We will say we're looking forward to more back-to-back testing, as the data presented here (especially up that climb) has us scratching our heads. You keep bringing the content, we'll keep bringing the bikes. 💪
What's wrong with "asymmetric frog-leg-muscle chain stays"? 😂😂😂 Ok, that one is our bad. But re: frame sizes... we often have internal debate about this. Going forward we're sticking to "XS, S, M, L, etc" with the reach and stack listed on the frame too. Why not just "52cm" or "54cm" like western brands? Part is that these measurements were based on traditional steel frames that's not really applicable to today, but another reason is that with the rise of gravel, even top tube length, or stack and reach are hard to compare between bikes. There's already so much stuff that's confusing to new-comers to the bike industry, having a "54cm" bike where nothing on the bike measures 54cm is one that may not be needed. Again, we can see either side of the debate. As always the best solution is fit first, buy later. Go take our geometry chart and get a pro bike fit before choosing. If that's not a viable option, our team has quite a lot of experience getting people on the right bike based on your measurements and riding style. Another wall of text. Sorry.
Thanks for the details on the thread Winspace!
@@CamNicholls I agree, I have found myself that too big a bike has this "heavy feeling" you mention. I think it would be a very interesting topic to compare the same bike but different sizes. I'm sure you would be surprised :) Cheers from France!
Y'know I appreciate Winspace responding to your video. Seems that they are taking your comments and acting on it. So refreshing from the world of no comment or over-preened press releases we see today. With that attitude and hunger, they'll improve their product rapidly.
@@torontogonzo Yeah i agree, there is a big contrast between Winspace & other brands like Open who sue people for criticizing their bikes. I really like Winspace's approach to feedback & social media in general 👍
That has to be the longest, most detailed, first review I’ve ever seen. Another great video!
Finally a review that seems level headed, so many reviews and wheel reviews were just first impressions etc.
this is a first impressions video
@@paulewannacrackr Really because to me a first impression would be what happens when a lot of other channels get the bike, and ride it for week or so and send back the review unit.... Seems like these was a huge build process, decent amount of riding, problems addressed, and resolved before a final verdict was given.
Winspace T1500 owner here. Built up with 50mm Hypers, Conti GP5000 and SRAM RED AXS ETAP. I love how the bike feels. It’s stiff, fast and very comfy. I am often out on the bike for 150km-200km rides. There are no creaking issues with the wheels or framset. I am also yet to be beaten on the SPRINTY segment around Regents Park, London UK (if you know you know). I’m not the fastest climber because I’m a solid muscled up fella but for me the bike handles climbs well enough. All in all I am very happy with the bike. A single sample size of one review versus many others does not negate how good the bike really is.
UA-camrs need to be careful when they review chinese bikes, cause if they made a good review about winspace or any chinese bikes, ppl will said they got paid by the brands 😂😂😂. The more you said something bad about the bikes, the more people will call it a “balance” review.
The 3rd person viewer comment cut way is hilarious EVERY time 😅
This review is the best executed review I’ve watched in all my years of YouTubing from gun, car, bike videos. This was top notch professionalism and honesty.
Thank you for the kind feedback Kolby. Cam
Absolutely appreciate the honest review and love how this "series" turned out!
I recently bought the winspace hyper 50mm disc wheels and they are very fast, im suprised you saw faster speeds with alloy 30mm rims. On a 20km TT at my local loop, I avged 34.5kph with my original fulcrum db3 alloy wheels and upon upgrading to the winspace 50mm on a windier day, I avged 36.7kph. Pretty massive improvement!
I have a set of the 38mm and also quick, stiff and smooth, no complaints so far either
Thanks for sharing on the thread Kevin.
@@CamNicholls My buddy got a pair of Hypers and, at least with some SRAM cassettes, there are issues with the freehub binding (that's according to my friend's experience and Winspace's replies). I wonder if there might be some less obvious minor binding issues you're experiencing.
Totally agree with you, I have the hyper 38 rim brake version and they are just super reliable and I have absolutely no weird noise when riding. They are faster, lighter and comfier than my mavic cosmic. I have only ridden 2000 kms with these wheels so this issue Cam Nicholls is pointing kind a makes me nervous for the future :( I did not buy a $1200 carbon wheelset for it to be topped by a $600 alloy wheelset.
@@CamNicholls IMO there was a problem there. Presumably the Cannondale data was from a while ago, so conditions could have been very different, but the Winspace rides were presumably back to back ... assuming there wasn't a headwind (looked still in the footage and surrounded by trees), I'd say something was really wrong for the 50s to be slower, at those speeds - especially as they're lighter. Perhaps you have the pawl engagement issue with the hub and are getting significant losses there? A few people have posted about it.
I received my Lun wheels one month ago (not the hypers) and I am very very pleased, they look beautiful, are light and feel great when riding. The shipment and customer service were wonderful too... btw, your new painting is just perfection !! Nice video, bravo!!
Cam, I just wanted to tell you the bike looks fantastic!! The white zipp wheel decals with the tan wall tires just look amazing!!
Finally! T1500D owner here, built up with DA/Ulte parts/50mm Hyper (i wanted the 65mm), Hambini BB, weight weenie parts to 7.2 kg (15.9pds). In terms of ride feel, I understand that "heavy" feeling you have....I've been riding chinese carbon for awhile, my last bike had more "feel/livliness" to it. For me, the NVH is great (meaning its a dream ride imo), so I can get over that 'heavy' feeling you get because it still handles/accelerates very well (its like a smooth, almost gradual like power delivery). Thought your review was fine. My pair of 50mm hyper didn't get any of that spoke thing, like you I will complain how loud the hub is, but when you ride in traffic, it helps to get cars attention, so its a tradeoff worth it ig. Riding creak free and proud! woop woop!
Thanks for sharing your experiences on the thread mate
🙌🙌🙌 We love more opinions being put out there, positive or negative. Hope you enjoy your bike for many, many more miles and smiles!
No problems here with my hyper too, best wheels I’ve ever ridden
I'd like to see the SEKA though when I went to their website they didn't have the aero frame available.
At the same time, I wouldn't worry too much about complaints because you're obviously honest about your observations.
I second Seka Afield, I heard it was comfy.
I have the AFIELD and it’s light and comfortable. Is more a climbing bike.
Your videos never fail to be good. This video is by far the best review I've ever seen of any Winspace products. Excellent work!!
Cheers Terrence
Thanks Cam for the review. It’s easy to always give bikes stand out reviews. I like to here about negative areas on bikes. I like to see where the imperfections are. What the ride comfort and handling is like.
I also think you buying the Windspace was a great thing to do. Because everyone has an opinion on Chinese products.
Cheers Steve
Man I always love your selection of the ending soundtrack!
I thank everyone for a review that is not all over the place for a product. Even though I think that you are biased by your expectations as your testing setup still has many variables in it to consider. But sometimes it comes down to subjective feelings. I rather watch your review than all the other "mainstream" bike channels. I wanted a new road bike since my first season (this is my 3rd) and I cant get one because there is no way I am able to decide. EVERY Roadbike is "super aero" and if it is
Looking forward to the Yoeleo comparison.
check out the OZ Cycle channel while you are waiting, He got plenty material about the two Yoeleo bikes he owns.
@@k.o.mpenaflor1443 He's a DR juicer. No thanks.
@@k.o.mpenaflor1443 sponsor videos
I just can say that I’ve got no problem at all with my hyper 50 wheels best wheels I’ve ever ridden. No problems with squeaking
I love the guy in the hat talking into the TV! I feel like the more I age the more I am becoming him. Can we have more of him? The opening line about being a dickhead was so funny. Thanks for another good video!
haha, cheers mate
Totally agree with you Matthew. :-) That bloke is funny.
Thanks. You take your analysis seriously. That is highly appreciated
Chalk this one up as another superlative review Cam. Mate, you've done well on the first impressions. Last summer I built up a aero carbon LightCarbon frame and it was very lively. So I thought.,.....this summer I moved everything (all components and wheels) over to my fav, the allez sprint disc, and the perf, speed and feel is much more lively. I think I am going to ride this allez into the ground until something comes up that I know will meet it , if not exceed this frame. Cheers, Rav
Cheers mate appreciate it.
So all in all, the frame delivered what could be expected. Nice review anyway and compliments on the sound quality of the video, this is top notch.
👀
Luv ya Francis.
question, would this be a good buy for a older guy 59, going from a 13kilo mountain bike, im torn on what to buy, as I only want to buy once, thinking of Ribble but up for suggestions
Winspace T1500 ran 8th at Grafton to Inverell last weekend. Went up Gibraltar in 42min. Rider described bike as slightly heavier than his previous S5 but otherwise similar. I’m mystified how anything could be aero after the air departs the front end but that’s just an observation. Good for you for saying it how you see it though Cam. Good work.
Bloody amazing to drag that thing up so many hills. I've been struggling on my 70km local bunch!
@@CamNicholls the difference I can see is the boys are on rim brake and I know they are getting down to 7.2-7.4 kg. Maybe the difference?
Thanks for a great review Cam! you really saved me on that one cause I was actually considering this frame, Have a TREK Madone 2020 SL, really upgraded with Scribe 50+ wide aero wheels (Fantastic wheels !!!!)and Shimano Ultegra DI2 drivetrain , SLR Handlebar and stem combo, and I must say they also feel EXACTLY EXACTLY like you feel regarding a "heavy riding feel", and that said on a supposed well designed X Gen aero bike from a super innovative brand! I recently rode a Specialized Tarmac SL7 on a weekend ride (of course that the bike is around 1.3 Kg lighter) , 90K ride with climbs & descents , flats, slalom flats so I guess that was all a terrain has to offer and was blown away by the handling and the way the bike just kept me out there on the speed I tried to hang on to, going back to the Madone was hard (despite its devastating looks) I feel like I am riding a wagon now :-( , it was like the response is delayed and I felt less secure on descents and on sprints out of the saddle on the flats than on the SL7...I am considering to switch to SL7 next year or checking out more bikes on this category that are assumed to be availble like the Factor Ostro VAM...any thought about reviewing the Ostro?
Thought about just can’t get access to it
@@CamNicholls Well I'm tuned to hear if you do get a chance, cheers!
Interesting review! I have the HYPER 50's and the HYPER 38's and I have had only success with these wheels. I do use the Rim Brake versions, and there have been no creaking noises and they have performed as some of the best wheels I have ever used. And over many, many years of racing, I have used almost every major brand of wheels except Shimano Wheels. The HYPER Wheels are the stiffest and most solid feeling wheels I have used with amazing acceleration. The wheels feel awesome to me! I am very happy I purchased the HYPER's. The brake surface has been outstanding and I have put the wheels through some serious abuse, and they still roll and look brand new after 1 year of use. Thankfully the HYPER wheels I have only made this perfect sounding noise of a beautiful HUB rolling so smooth and crisp. No extra noises ever from the wheels. I am looking forward to trying the HYPER 65's and compare those to the Mavic and Zipp Wheels I have used that are close to that same size. I also would like to try the Winspace Road Frames to compare those to bikes I have used in the past.
Thanks for an honest review. You've clearly put a lot of time and effort into this and it shows.
Well done Cam another interesting and honest review. Great video keep them coming.
The St George team in New South Wales are racing on a Chinese brand called Pardus Evo Spark. The frame is lighter yet still aero. You may want to check this one out. I am very surprised with your analysis of the wheels I actually prefer the Hypers to my Zipp NSW 303s but each to their own.
Thanks for the tip mate
Pardus is used by Shimano Neutral Service Cars: www.cyclingnews.com/features/shimanos-neutral-service-bikes-whats-under-the-blue-paint/
Neil Pryde sold their moulds to Pardus.
@@kamerafi Nice one. A few UCI teams are using them around the world. The Spark Evo is very impressive. You can get one fully equipped with Ultegra on Alibaba for about $2200. Aero frame is 950 grams which is up there with the best of them.
@@kamerafi weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=164145
facebook.com/groups/671861306299857/permalink/1875109702641672/
In Britain there is a bike shop in Yorkshire called Planet X. They are selling their aero bike with sram force 22 DB for £1899. The weight comes in at 8.7kg. Some of the parts are bog standard, which you can upgrade in the build process carbon rims, carbon aero bars and better lighter tyres. This brings the weight down and that build price comes in at £2999. It’s been reviewed, but only a couple of times and got 5 stars from cycling weekly. The problem is as it not a big brand named bike it never goes head to head with these, but it’s a blinking good bike. Are other brands afraid?
I figured this would be the outcome. BIG brands do pump a fair amount of money into R&D and having the pros test their stuff, etc. I too have ridden many road bike brands. Enough to say, this is good and this is not so good. My opinion is my own, but if you've ridden enough bikes, different brands etc. you WILL notice a difference. Great video! Keep them coming!
Looking forward to that bang-for-the-buck comparison, especially given the Cannondale is in a higher price bracket.
I want to see all these bikes go head to head with the winspace with all the stuff the winspace goes through. I'd watch it'd be awesome
Great and honest review of a bike a man can ever make! Well done Cam.
Fantastic review cam. I love your honest approach to bike reviews. Keep it up.
Cheers mate.
Great, honest review. Never easy when you’ve tipped money into an expensive build, to openly admit that it is underwhelming. Maybe it may be a good crit pig?
Cheers mate, could be a good crit pig. Need to try some other carbon hoops
Cheers for this. Excellent series so far! Stoked to see the comparison with the other brands
All those whiny haters are how you know you're killing it. People that watch you consistently know you're not giving unbiased opinions. Don't even give them the pleasure of acknowledging them. Love your content!
Cheers Jesse, appreciate the support.
Ahhh mate great review👍great channel much love 🇮🇪🍀☘
Always good honest valved review cam. For the weekend bike warrior we may not notice all the little things that you pick up on. But just from the respray you enhanced the look of the wind space , and sometimes the placebo effect of it it looks fast it will go fast is enough , 👍🚴👍🚴
An honest review Cam...I think you get what you pay for its as simple as that! I have just bought a Trifox x10 aero frame with the cheaper 60mm Winspace lun ceramic hub wheels,kitted out with sram red e-tap and trifox carbon aero bars....Its impressive and is very quick,it weighs 8.1 kilo much the same as the T1500...The workmanship on the frame is amazing confirmed by Hambini,this Trifox frame may be an option to test,at £650 usd (im in uk) it is a good bike i also run a Wilier cento 1 air with Yoeleo 60/80 wheels and sram axs e-tap its a missile on the flat but slow up climbs,and also a lovely Look 695 with dura ace di2 thats a real climbers bike being 6.9 kilo.
Good Review. I would really love to see a Yoeleo comparison. Maybe look at Elves as well (I heard they make some good direct to consumer frames).
One suggestion for the long-term review and future reviews is, if technically possible add in some comparison runs on a known/preferred common wheel and tire setup swapped across all the frames. Having that additional data point of a common wheel/tire setup for all the frames would provide useful comparisons of the respective frames.
Perhaps you will expand on the use of the disc wheel adapters for the Winspace wheels in your long-term review, because that part was a little confusing. It was unclear if you were adapting rim brake wheels onto a disc frame, if all Winspace wheels require adapters, if there is something unique about that frame, if that is something unique to all Winspace wheels, or if all disc wheels in general need adapters. I am on rim brakes and I don’t know all the little details of disc brake setups, so maybe it was clear to all the disc brake people.
I'd love to see a back to back 10km time trial with this vs another aero frame to see if there is any noticeable difference if watts are the same.
There won't be any measurable difference distinguishable between natural variables such wind speed, direction, tyre pressure 3rd. It all buckshot and backhanders. Us cyclists are the biggest mugs on the planet spending more money on bikes than cars.
Excellent review Cam.
That Paint job is So Nice!!! Sugar and Spice
I looking forward for the Yoeleo frame review but I think the main advantages of this brand are more models available, wider color ranges, free shipping worldwide and tax free for USA, Canada, Australia.
Yoeleo are just resellers of other manufacturers frames. And if you buy one expect to wait for months to get it
@@cannon1156 good to know, do you have any experience with them?
@@k.o.mpenaflor1443 yes I havbe owned Yoeleo frames and wheels. They tend to be a bit heavy . The frames are not unique. They seem to be an open mould frame that is available from several manufacturers. Currently there is a lot of complaints about waiting over 3 months to get orders delivered
@@cannon1156 what about the wheels, do you have Dr Swiss hubs installed on them?
@@cannon1156 I will check your videos later one, thanks for all the info mate.
Thanks for the honest review Cam', Im writing from Ireland and enjoy your insights. I thought it was all going to be awesome but and I was about to pull the trigger on a pair of hypers so cheers for the heads up. Hope wifey is on the mend. All the best to you and yours.
Cheers Maurice
As always, an honest and frank review. 👍🏻
With the tests I have done the Hypers wheels were the slower wheel too. The Hypers always felt slower than my old wheelset but it took me a few months to get myself to admit I may have made a mistake.
Nice review!
Very beautiful! I like the black /white theme.
If nothing else, the Windspace looks fantastic and for the average Joe it would be a more than capable bike to ride.
sizing is one the challenging areas. I have CAAD10 and when I compared it with CAAD13, i found 13 to be much different. You are right about brands like Winspace, sizing/geo looks to be adjusted to smaller asians.
Great review and a bit of food for thought for those that bag premium brands indicating the frames are just pumped out in Asia. That may be true but clearly discounting the RD expended in getting to that point and as you point out years of refinement that has gone into improving a design.
Love you Francis!!!
really good & honest Cam.
Interesting that you use the Merida Reacto as a reference here. It is one of the slowest if not the slowest of the major brand aero bikes according to wind tunnel tests of RoadBike magazine. I would really love to see an independent wind tunnel test of the Winspace in comparison to at least one other major brand bike. Outdoor tests especially on different days can be really error-prone. Also Charles Ouimet arrived at 7,6kg with an Ultegra DI2 groupset (without pedals) which seems quite okay if you look at weights of bikes like the Trek Madone or Scott Foil, doesn't it? Anyway, grateful for your videos, Cam 👍
Yes it's interesting, I guess not my experience though!
Thanks Cam. Good idea to compare with other “cheap” bikes. Look forward to that vid
You do a great review, fair an honest, I hope you can get some more mainstream bikes around this price bracket from the manufacturers for review because a positive review here would translate to sales. Trek, Spec, Giant should be beating a path to your door!
Great video Cam
Nice one for sticking with it. For the record, I felt you were very clear and upfront with your relationship with Winspace and what you wanted to get out of it. You went and had it scanned and made it clear you could say what you wanted. Didn't expect anything less than an honest review from you and not all that surprised it's lacking the polish of the larger brands. It's been interesting to watch form my POV, so the rest can go fuck themselves IMO. My mate got a Reacto 6000, not Di2 with those entry-level Fulcrum wheels, so I'll share this with him. Be good to see how they compare. I think the buyers for these bikes are roughly the same, whereas if you have $15-20k AUD to chuck down on a bike, you ain't gonna be buying Winspace.
Cheers mate
Good honest review. Like!
Nice review, even nicer comment from Winspace. I ride the T1500, drove other top frames before, just no aero bikes. But this one is fast, and as you mentioned, it handles great. I don't know if it's the wheels, the frame, or the combo, but it feels fantastic. And it doesn't feel faster, but it seems to be faster if I check my numbers. So I am really interested in the ' blind tests' mentioned by Winspace. Your remark about size seems silly, the geometry chart shows all relevant numbers, so if you don't understand them, don't by a frame online, but go to a bikeshop. Just like clothes, you can't draw any conclusions from a size like S, M or XXL. That's why you have size charts and geometry charts. The numbers are correct, my bike fits as well as any.
Great review… always comprehensive… always concise… always fair… 🍻
Cheers mate
Thank you for that honest review. My experience though is completely different with winspace products, although I ride the lightweight frame slc 2.0. I have the 38 and 50 hypers and I am so happy with them. The stiffness, braking performance and the sound is so great. And I have ridden lightweight meilensteins before.. maybe it is because I use rim brakes, I don‘t know but I never had wheels that performed so good as the winspace do. Next to the slc2.0 I have a Colnago C64, and there again, they are both quite the same to ride. So for sure no downsides on the chinese frame there. But, I‘ve never ridden the aeroframe, so I am really happy with this honest and great review. Thank you for that! Regards.
Have SLC with rim Hyper 38 and love them
Took a few rides and love the integrated bars though the lever position was different
Have changed other bikes to match
Really good to deal with
Can you elaborate more on the 2.0 m, how does the ride feel. I’m looking at this frame too but can’t find many reviews of it
@@rami1985 Hey Rami. Of course I can. Before the SLC I was riding an S-Works Tarmac SL6 (the best of the tarmacs in my opinion) and then a Colnago C64. So I can compare the SLC to pretty much the "best" bikes out there. And I have to admit, it`s not even close to being worse or cheaper or something. It rides like a beast, it`s superstiff, very light (I have fitted a SRAM Red Etap and the Winspace Hyper 38mm wheels and it is 6.4Kg without pedals) and just super fun to ride. I always feel a bit bad when saying this, but I even prefer riding the SLC over the Italian handmade Colnago which I still ride regurally, especially when climbing. The SLC is a true climbing bike and it does feel like this. You simply ascent, the power goes directly through the stiff frame and again, it`s just super fun. So I can honestly and with confidence say that you wouldn`t be disappointed when buying this frame. Please be aware that I am speaking of the rim brake version, so I have no idea about weight and stuff when it comes to disc brake.
@@samueltrumpy4433 Thanks for the reply Samuel. I'd be looking at the rim brake version too and using my current di2 groupset on there if I did make the purchase. I know etap is wireless but I assume there are channels for internal routing. How does it handle on the flats and and descending? I also prefer climbing but would consider a more traditional all round frame as opposed to a purely aero frame like the T1500 as I ride all sorts of terrain. Just out of curiosity you clearly have a couple of decent bikes (sworks c64), what made you go for the winspace?
@@rami1985 Fun thing, I just built a T1500 with a used Dura Ace Di2. You can`t route it completely internally with the Rim Brake version, but together with the winspace handlebar you only have the two braking cables and the small Di2 cable that go from the handlebar to the frame. So no big deal and almost fully hidden cables.. :D
If you want a bike for all terrains I would definitely go for the SLC. The T1500 is great in the flats but as soon as you go up, you feel the heavier frame and you will be happier with the SLC for sure.
To be honest, I stopped buying "traditional" bikes because first, I love building up bikes, and secondly I am a bit disappointed by the whole industry. You just don`t get more value out of a Scott, or Specialized or whatever for the price you pay. And I kind of like the fact to overtake all those superexpensive "high end" superbikes with my "cheap" selfmade roadbike. And like I said, the quality simply isn`t better when you buy an expensive bike from a big brand. You just pay a lot for it`s name..
Nice mate, excellent review.
As for those that jumped ship or arced up in the comments early on...well, pretty sure you can fill in the blanks on that one.
It’s almost about how it feels. I wish it could be more data driven. It feels heavy could be very subjective for instance.
Much more a fan of your Factor Cam, the weight on the Winspace is reminiscent of an Allez Sprint alloy... Of course a comparison with the Factor is out of the question, but I'm looking forward to a full review as that is my next bike buiild!
For a high end build I would choose the Bianchi Oltre XR4 and for a budget build the Titan Racing Valerian (made in South Africa). Great videos Cam 👍
I also have Force 1x on one of my bikes and that drivetrain also makes that bike feel slow, it’s a gravel setup in all reality. The issue is not only poor chain alignment in 1x setups and larger jumps between gears, but even more so the strong spring in the clutch mechanism of the rear derailleur. I suggest a retest with a 2x road system.
I’ve had the same set up on another bike and it was no issue
Hambini loved this one
Same ballpark as the Merida Reacto, i'd love to see how it fares against a Giant Propel Advanced, maybe not even a very recent one, as a good condition, not much ridden, secondhand market Propel from say 2 to 3 years ago would come in roughly the same price range as that Winspace T1500.
I like this idea, thanks for sharing
thanks for the thorough assessment...quality of workmanship/build is important but the design and engineering are where the most important qualities come through, (speaking as a designer). should be getting my hyper wheels delivered soon so interesting how you compare. I'll be comparing to a set of Hunt 50mm wheels. Nice cheeky shout out to Francis too...keep up the good work...good to see you mentioning comparing like for like at a certain price point rather than by best available across the board which is a little unfair...
Oz cycle has had success with Yeoleo frames and wheels. Looking forward to those. He's Aussie too iirc.
I think that's what the Oz in Oz cycles means :)
If you can get hold of one....... Try a Lapierre aircode. Nice bikes. Thanks for being candid and open mate. Cheers
I'm really enjoying your content lately! I am looking at bike frames at the moment and through brands as Winspace and Yoeleo, I've been trying to investigate the quality of Chinese roadbike parts. It's hard! Your winspace review really is the only one video I can find of someone actually checking the quality of the carbon. Now, I'm very curious what Gary would say about a lesser known Chinese brands as Trifox.. Maybe an idea for a future project?
BRING NEILL BACK, we need him! I would be grateful if you can do a video with him talking about neck pain and how to fix it! Great Job, cheers from Portugal!
New channel Joao
ua-cam.com/channels/eW11HsUiXwnRbPqNlh6fHw.html
@@CamNicholls Nice!!! Thanks =)
Elves might be worth looking at. I bought one last year and it's been pretty good for me but I also haven't been able to put many miles on it since I got it just before winter here in the northern US. They do free custom paint, which was a big draw, and they have a fairly sizable following in China and the Philippines.
Which model did u get.. Vanyar? I am really keen to find out how the bike fares... cheers mate.
Awesome review Cam!! Would love to see you try the new Seka Exceed which is around the same price point as this Winspace frame.
I have a SLC 2.0 and I agree it seems heavy (sluggish) to ride compared to other top end mainstream brands I’ve owned and ridden. Given the price point and with managed expectations, I think it’s a capable machine. Great review as always, Cam!
Slc 2.0 is heavy? I'm interested to know what other bikes u have ridden?
Winspace engineered their own wheels, and many are saying they are better than the top brands. So if they can do that, I am certain the can also produce a 2nd generation frame that can surpass (insert brand here) without needing 15-20 engineers.
Great review.
I too have spoke creaking issues on my 65mm hyper wheels, but that is not the worst thing. They have issues with the rim hooks having high and low spots causing the tires to wobble.
Interesting to hear John, thanks for sharing on the thread.
Nice explanation Cam!
Cheers Karl
Appreciate the review. Just a piece of commentary: There is no point in commenting on aerodynamics when its clear that you dont have any training in the area. Also, with the hill tests you do, it would be nice to see an average taken from 2-3 runs to improve accuracy. Cheers.
That is a good idea. I like it.
I'd recommend to add to the comparison list one British brand called Orro. I have a Venturi STC with Ultegra groupset and I was impressed with it, but I never had a high range road bike. There is a owners Facebook group and everyone looks quite happy with them. I paid for mine £2200 so if you add a good carbon set of wheels it can match perfectly the price range that you want.
Good review. For what it's worth when looking at the aerodynamics on the wide seatstays, it's becoming common. See the British Track cycling team bike from Hope. And since then other manufacturers have stepped into the trend. I would also say that if the Hyper Wheels didn't work for you then a better replacement (meaning in the same price category) of wheels would be the Zipp 303s wheelset. That probably would have done more for your riding experience than anything else. That said I imagine the geometry very likely still needs development.
The intro is underrated
You can give Devel Brand, a Philippine brand, a shot since it is used by the Nero Continental team. As for another Chinese brand, Elves or Ecnal would hover around the same range as Winspace. Cheers for this video Cam!! 💯🙌
Thanks for the ideas Mark, much appreciated.
Was considering those winspace wheels awhile back, but read some stuff about carbon spoke failures (although admittedly with other brands) and it kind of scared me off. The fact that the spokes are rubbing together doesn't fill me with confidence that they wouldn't fail midway through a descent! Good unbiased review though!
Thanks for sharing on the thread Adam. Cheers, Cam
The giant propel and specialized allez sprint might be good bikes for a comparison
Good review. Thx 👍
Hi Cam! Thanks alot for a review. You are 100% right with lack or R&D in Chinese companies. Bike looks more then right and speedy outside but the same fast inside. I guess that’s only one reason not to buy/wait for a new generation of Chinese frames. Cheers. Max
I drive a winspace t1500 and come from a columbus steel no aero frame. Speaking of aerodynamics I felt a big advantage by switching to winspace, and I could define a 20% improvement from steel to winspace. I don't think any good cyclist can quantify the aerodynamic difference between an aero bike and another aero bike except with sensors. In any case, winspace is an aero frame and you can feel it. In an equal comparison you would have had to use the same wheels, the same tires, the same clothing and in my opinion the same set group and perform the test on the flat, not uphill, this is a contradiction. I want to propose that you take the most modest bike you have and do the Indian climb and show us the time. The last thing 10sec in 3 min are so many are you sure about the size of the frame? This could lead you to move and swing a lot in the saddle and give you a disadvantage and could also affect the squeak of the wheels
it might not be a really good bike but that repaint still makes it look good.
Agreed, it does look good!
Have you heard of Twitter Cyclone? It's a carbon aero road bike. Chinese brand and cost about USD1,450.00 with SRAM Rival groupset. Stock alloy wheels.
Don't listen to the haters, Cam. We trusted you the whole time to be unbiased.
Cheers mate
received my hyperspace wheels on monday but unfortunately a collision with a car on friday put me in hospital and needing surgery on my hand and trashed my frame, so the wheels will stay in the box for a few weeks while i recover (i'm fine except for finger motion and need for physio) and get insurance for a new frame etc. just adds to the anticipation. PS hard to find a rim brake frame now too...
Great video and review. Wheels do make a huge difference though so At the back of my mind I’m wondering if the “heavy” feeling would be removed by just changing to wheels in the same price range as mainstream bikes. Otherwise very interesting and looking forward to comparison with similar priced frames!
interesting video, thanks for making it
Another great content. I agree not all bikes are created equally.
hi Cam.. i came across your videos while looking for bike fitting.. im MTB rider but since atm i'm living in UAE there is no point of having a MTB here so decided to buy my first road bike and start pedaling.. i found that mainstream bikes here are crazy expensive starting at around 7.5-8000 which translates to approx 2000€ which is not something i'm willing to spend on my first bike.. however there are some Chinese bikes that are popular here, namely Java and Pardus. Cheapest Pardus Robin Carbon with 105 groups comes at 4000, and even slightly upgraded Spark Carbon Disc is on sale for 4500 atm. Java J-Air Fuoco Pro Carbon comes at 5800 with hydraulics and looking more aero. Both are UCI approved. Those are by no means cheap bikes starting from 1000€ but significant saving compared to mainstream. Unfortunately i cant find any tests and reviews (only few from Philippines as those are also popular in SE Asia) and i see you also reviewed Seka, another Chinese bike. Do you have any info about two mentioned brands?