DUCATI 900SS Clutch Mod - Biggelaar Performance Part
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- Опубліковано 5 кві 2020
- A simple low cost modification for 2V Ducati dry clutches
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"Shut yer clutch up!" he he he sounds magic in my Glaswegian accent.. You keep on giving with this bike Andy, loved every minute of it..
I took a stock friction disc to a waterjet company, had a disc made of stainless with wider tangs to fit into the basket with very little clearance. 40 bucks , much quieter !!😎😎😎😎😎😎😎😎🍺🍺🍺🍺🍺
I have a 900 SS myself. Based upon this video from you I contacted Toine for this modification on my bike as well. Today I visited him, which is pretty easy because I life in Holland as well. Toine did the modification on my bike at his workshop and I fully agree with you Andy. This modification makes my 900 SS a better bike! The sound is much more comfortable and especially on roundebouts the bike is much more easy going. Thnx for the tip Andy!
Happy that it worked out for you mate 👍
Yes, brilliant- I did the mod on my Ducati ST2 and really can hear the difference
Having piddled with dry clutches 25 years ago on my son's speedway bike, I know they have their place in the world of racing, but..........
I am not a big fan of dry clutches on street bikes, however it sounds to me like the Biggelaar Performance clutch modification is well worth the price. The clutch sounded pretty darn good. Now I would be interested to see if it hits harder. I fully expect it will. Be careful & ride safe.
Oh yeah, much nicer! I love learning about these old ducs! Nice work! I also love hearing your garage sounds, mate sounds like another planet! Got to love it down there!
That sounds so much better. Really like the elephant logo on the belt covers. A nod to the great Cagiva mark that I am a big fan of,
Andy such a wonderful site for all the bikes .very informative.love the down to earth nature of the clips compared to the other re US clips.
Thanks Andy for another great vlog, it's made a great difference but that engine sounded absolutely fantastic. Take care and all the best. Stevie
Huge difference, sounds way better, cheers R
Hi Andy, just finished installing the clutch mod from tione I'm stoked really happy with it. I havent had the chance to test ride yet got storm bloody Clara or whatever its called here , thanks for sharing this mate appreciate it 👍from me .
Hello Andy , I have fitted a TIONN BIGGELAAR ` quiet ` clutch kit to my 2002 ST4S , and I am extremely pleased with the results .
I am now in the process of fitting a Biggelaar ` quiet` kit to my sons 2002 ST4S , AND WHAT A NIGHTMARE I AM HAVING .
THE BASKET IS ALUMINIUM ( MINE IS STEEL ), I have had to silicone the first thick steel disc in place, I have asked TIONN for friction plate tolerances and thicknesss of plate `stack`.
I have since dissassembled the aluminium clutch assembly AGAIN ,and am now looking at your videos AGAIN .
i FEEL SURE THAT I HAVE MADE a mistake somewhere ,as MY steel basket clutch modification is good .
Malcolm .
Much better I had an S2R 1000 wish I had a kit for it like that before I got rid of it Great job👍
If viewers like Brad the Bike Boy, he's done a couple of good, interesting, informative tutorials and interviews on Mike's Machines channel, another decent Oz channel, predominantly older classics and Italians, especially Guzzis.
Well worth a watch.
Thanks for the info on the clutch mod sounds great, BTW I read on a forum that Suzuki gs clutch baskets can be used to quiet down the rattle might be worth looking into. Also I'm in the processes of cylinder repair on my bike so your videos have been very motivating.
All I can say is I'm glad I have a wet clutch in my Ducati, but that Biggelaar performance kit is definitely an improvement.
Wow! I’m getting one of these!
Sounds great mate
great content, clutch sounds better, needs more "cowbell"Thanks for sharing Andy
Andy ... well done mate 👍👍👍👍👍
Why would you mask one of the joys of Ducati ownership? My 851Superbike made a whole cacaphony of sounds that I lovingly referred to as mechanical mayhem and it always brought a smile to my face to hear it. Of all the memories I have of that bike it is the sounds I miss the most.
I like it and I'll be buying one! I couldn't find any torque settings for the SS spring bolts either and on my 916 I just did them up firm which was how they were when I replaced the whole clutch, basket and all! That will be money well spent as it should reduce the wear! Thanks.
Brad the bike boy .... done..... subscribed 👌
that glorious sound of the Ducati Twin....and very little clutch rattle.. Barnett Clutches...!!
OEM way better in my experience by a factor of 3 - YMMV and maybe Barnett has stepped up their game.
Not even the Ducati workshop manual gives specific torque settings for the clutch spring bolts. But the general advice given is 6Nm for 5mm bolt and 10Nm for a 6mm bolt. From memory I think they are 5mm. Finally the maximum clearance between the tang on the driving plate and the slot in the basket is 0.6mm
thats a good result.cheers
Great video ! Tks sir
I put Brisk spark plugs on my Ducati ST2 - and they are a very good upgrade
You have to be a real man to love the dry clutch sound !
As I’m not a real man it’s like finger nails down a chalk board hearing that rattle ! 🤪
But I still love watching your videos.
thats a pretty good sound difference mate, i could live with the sound though!
Thanks Andy - while I do enjoy your vids and your appreciation of our Desmo Due's, don't you know that "Loud Clutches Save Lives"? - sorry, couldn't resist ;). I have a 1999 900SS with 85K miles on her and replaced the clutch pack twice now. The second time I went cheap and ordered the Barnett clutch pack which lasted me less than 18K miles. The original OEM lasted 47K miles. So now I'm back to OEM w/ about 30K miles and it sounds lovely - YMMV Cheers!
It’s not the noise that concerns me, it’s the damage that they cause. Thanks for watching mate 👍
5 foot pounds. Andy cheers!
Oh Andy that's nice... Wearing Toine's T shirt too. ;o)
Hey Andy, love your videos. My maintenance manual says tighten the retaining bolts to 6 Nm. I had an 03 999, I found that if I was just tooling around it wore the clutch basket pretty fast. I was told you have to keep the throttle pinned to reduce the wear as that keeps the clutch plates from beating back and forth on the basket fingers....? My basket looked much like yours so I replaced it with one that had steel inserts around the fingers and the noise was reduced a fair amount. With the new setup you now have if you potentially get a basket with steel inserts it would be somewhat quieter while idling as well. Just a thought. Thanks for sharing!
Thanks mate. BTW, mine is a steel basket
That’s gone from a jake hammer to a impact drill. Just a good set of ear plugs, n the jobs a good n, sorted 👍😂
I like the clattering clutch, reminds me of my TZ. Still love this.
I prefer to listen to the exhaust
I'd guess that this mod will decrease the wear on the basket too.
Hopefully the replacement clutch when it goes in will suffer less wear without all that shunting back and forth.
I wish I could send my 1995 ss to you so I can get it going. It was given to me as a gift with the owner told me it just had a small electrical problem. That was 4 years ago and I still have it parked in my garage
are you stateside?
I had the same convercion installed aswell bij his Dad on my ducati monster s4r.... make a big difference
Mostly it had became so bad the police started to stop me and trying to fine me for the clutchsnoise... so its a win win for me... Great guys the @Biggelaar !!!!
Certainly a advicely rebuild kit to all the ducati dry clutch rides out there....
hey A ANOTHER GREAT VEDIO LET ME KNOW WHAT THE TORGUE IS ON THE SPRINGS WHEN YOU FIND OUT THANKS MATE!!! TONY
Just snug them up.. don't go nuts
Great video as always! You can achieve the exact same result by installing a single old/used friction plate at the base of the clutch stack to provide just a bit of preload. This will get rid of the loud clunking noise but still retain that jungle with the clutch disengaged. I suspect the first steel plate installed in your kit is actually there to protect the bottom of the basket, which would be an improvement over the old approach. Cheers.
Twonkyful Good.
This mod has smoothed the bike out below 3000 rpm, which is the initial purpose for its development. The anti rattle is a byproduct.
Do the steels need to be oriented a particular way? I’ve always wondered what the little cutout was on the outside diameter of the steels and wondered if they should be oriented on the drum a particular way. I’ve always just put them on randomly
Funny disclaimer.
Hi Andy, thanks for the video. I ordered one of these which was sent March 4th and still waiting for it April 6th. I am in Sydney Australia. How long did it take to reach you please?
Received it finally.
What are the options for slipper clutches?
5 ftlbs for pressure plate fasteners
sir, last night i rode my 900ss. unfortunately i had my clutch coming out hitting the cover and even hit my side fairing after i removed the cover. may i know what would be the cause? thank you.
Wow...I wonder if he makes a mod for my 749r ...that clutch on the testastretta is insanely loud and only low milage (under 20k) ...but having the factory slipper is it doable ...? not sure but shut yours up wonderfully and I know about pigrooting at lower speeds especially when the engine only has 54mm stroke ..great videos..please post a link to your mate in Holland ...cheers
There’s a link in the description of this video
Sorry 749R has a OEM crap slipper clutch, my best advice change it over to a normal clutch from other models, then put the modification in that, put the slipper on Ebay and sell it for 175 euro, unless it's a track bike only then a slipper clutch is a good option
does this apply to a 48T clutch as well?
Filing steel clutch plate tabs (friction and plain) and grooves on CAST IRON hubs and baskets on old Brit bikes, people will think that Ducati clutch is in fantastic condition....
hiya andy whats the mod called and would it fit my 2003 999 and dose it make the duke run smoother
I always look interesting. It looks like you have a friction disc next to the spring plate, but in my experience, this order would scrap away the friction material...
Which is why the friction plate has had the friction material removed from one side
So that's it ! thx
So Andy what will be the next project, nothing like pushing you, if only you were close by I have a few projects I would have gladly donated. restorations though to be fair restorations can be expensive as I guess you know especially Japanese if originality is sought.
Not sure mate.
I like using a magnet to take my clutch plates out.
5Nm for spring screws,
9Nm for cover screws
Getting that spacer out will be a mission,better to just buy a new clutch kit
If the tambourine sound wasn't there... I would think my bike was broken.
Who has problem of Ducati noise, don't have a Ducati. Simple
Better send the bike to Biggelaar and let them do it.
Standard torque for m5 in Ducati manual is 6nm. as the manual does not specify then it must be standard torque
Thanks mate, sounds about right
Personally, I prefer the "before" sound!!!!!
But, thats just me and a bevel owner!!!!!
I thought you had more mechanical sympathy mate 😂
Welll... yes..... but i love that rattling of the dry clutch!!!!
I ride a bevel mate... EVERYTHING rattles in that!
I was on the biggelaar performance website and I can’t find the clutch up grade on it .
G’day mate, no you won’t find any links on their website. If you want to purchase one go to the website and find their email and send them a message, or go to their Facebook page and message them there.
I am enthrawled by my collonial cousons waffle , all the more interesting with the clutch ANTI RATTLE content . I have bought one of these kits , which will be fitted as soon as I have sorted my RR Classic brake probs .
DOES ANYONE knnow about softdash WABCO booster blocks . 1994 Range Rover .
Absolutely, that sounds so much better. Personally, I can’t stand the sound of the rattley clutch. A quick question, why the open clutch assembly cover rather than the normal enclosed casing. What’s the reason for this. I have seen this open case on many a dry clutch setup on Ducs but don’t understand the reason behind this. Wouldn’t this potentially allow dust, dirt, water etc ( contaminants to get into the mechanism) ???
It is a bit of a Ducati wank thing. But it does have some cooling benefits and clutch dust builds in side the factory covers. You will notice that most GP race bikes run open dry clutches.
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions Thanks Andy, ok I get that. I really had wondered.
People ask me why i run an open belt drive and dry clutch on my Triumph instead of a stock wet enclosed primary chain and wet clutch, with the spinning pressure plate and lockwired adjuster nuts kissing my boot.
My answer is, because i can...
So, how n why is this €100 kit superior to the nearly free mod that MotoMinx showed you years ago? Sounds about the same to my ear. Just curious. Thanks Mr. Andy.
A fair question. This mod was free for me. The added benefit of this mod, which I now know after riding the bike and subsequently speaking to Toine, is that it absolutely smooths the bike out at low RPMs (in fact that was the primary reason for developing it. The anti rattle was a side benefit). You can now ride it around a roundabout or tight 1st gear corner without having to ride the clutch. The mod that Motominx did definitely shuts the rattle up, but it isn’t free. You would still have to track down a single friction disc.
It doesn't have tangs driving against the basket and If I recall she said there was a slight release or similar issue though didn't cause her a problem. That aside I wonder why Biggelaar didn't choose to go down the more simple and cheaper route of adding a friction plate.
@@ANDY5 Do I detect a bit of diplomacy used here?
@@nightster6378 I am not familiar with the other solution to stop the rattling, we developed this modification in 1992 as then the 900SS changed from the Paso style clutch type to the current type, you would need to make a friction connection between the inner hub and outer basket so these 2 parts will become one piece when the clutch is closed, only way to do this is the fill the space in the back of the basket by the ring we made, then use a spring/convex ring so the basket wich holds the friction plates will be connected to the inner hub wich holds the steel plates, this way you create a friction coupling between these 2 parts with locking them up, so they can still move 1 way under acceleration and the other way during engine breaking. Originally the entire clutch pack is solely mounted on the inner hub and has only a connection with the basket by the friction plates in the grooves, and as the outer basket is the part that is driving by the engine and a Ducati has a offset firing order under say 3000 rpm the clutch pack is hammered back and forth in the grooves. We have sold over roughly 7000 sets or more trough all the years and it's a proven product.
@@ANDY5
It's a dry clutch. Thought all Ducati people had stacks of shot friction disk. 😉
How can I get this mod?
Where can I buy the kit?
Send a email to werkplaats@biggelaar-performance.com to make a order
0.6mm? I recon you've got about 6mm there mate!
Yeah it’s pretty FUBAR
You got yours for free ,, 1 spare fibre plate is far cheaper for the same outcome
6Nm for the spring torque but not that vital ...
Thanks mate
Andy's Motorcycle Obsessions ,, I’ve never ever torqued mine & they’ve never ever came loose ,, not to say they may never come loose ,, just saying ... you know what I mean!
How can I order this kit for my 1996 SP?
Go to the Biggelaar Performance Facebook page and message them
@@ANDY5 Thanks for the heads up. I can't wait to have the low end smoothness.
If you need some money for the clutch Andy,the government are giving some out at the moment
LOL, mental health issue
These are 6 mm Steel Cap screw into an alloy pillar , Loctite 242 Threadlock and absolutely no more than 10-12 Ft Lbs. There are way to many Mechanics that rely on torque settings as LAW which is misleading to the layman. This is also why som many Owner's that replace their clutch parts on a regular basis tend to over-tighten fastener's .
These Cap Screws carry NO LOAD other than the at rest spring tension and the compressed height Spring tension as the clutch is disengaged, your stack height should never exceed 40 mm or you could end up with clearance issues. The clearance issue you point out is largely irrelevant as there is sufficient room for the outer pressure plate to move on the spline at the outside with it's required release movement , the most important thin is the correct spring so that you do not end up with coil bind in the spring pockets. Back to the bolts , you are dealing with some 20mm of engaged thread so that is a huge area for the thread to bite and hold snug to the pedestal. It doesn't need to be stupidly tight.
About the bolts, yes I agree with everything that you say, except they’re M5.
The Haynes book of fairytales says “refer to the torque value at the start of this chapter”, which of course it doesn’t list. The factory manual makes no reference to a torque value however it recommends 6Nm for any M5 fastener where a specific torque value is not listed.
On the pressure plate, again yes. The penny dropped after I had uploaded the video and I was watching it back. However the problem with a pack length too long is not so much a fear of coil binding, the limited stroke of the slave cylinder is more the issue. The rod length doesn’t change which means that the further the rod moves away from the slave cylinder the less disengagement you get and the resulting clutch drag makes it difficult to find neutral.
@@ANDY5 Geez ya split hairs why don't you :) just joking M5 / M6 interesting though as mine are definitely M6 8.8 Class ( They might have been re-threaded by a previous owner though hence the difference) . Probably some ham fist tightening ? .
I actually cleaned the Pressure plate surface up on my SS ( I'd say someone didn't have the right arrangement resulting in friction on the Alloy ) . :( So I faced it , about .5 mm and took .5 off the tower's as well making me think some peoples clutch issues could stem from incorrect disc placement. .
Yes the slave is the key re disengagement for sure. I have seen some replacement Spring kits (Heavier Spring rate ) that IMHO due to the thicker spring wire in the coil has the potential to bind as there isn't a lot of room in those pockets. Another little trick I have found useful is to file the square edge off the Basket engagement tangs on the Friction plates. this presents a rounded edge to the inevitable wear in the basket slots and allows better disengagement.
Thanks for this sane response! (just snug 'em up FFS - you don't need a torque wrench... )
@@umbertoecho1 I'm not sure if your comment was to be sarcastic or a " like whatever " response but my comment stands though, in my life I have witnessed far too many Owner's and Mechanics get so side tracked by either stated or perceived Torque settings in manuals that may not be anywhere near the true values many manufacturer's have deduced are mechanically viable, but things like this just need to be snug and not tight as hell because the thread is a steel bolt with a relatively fine thread into Alloy a soft metal .
So just nice and snug is really all that is required here .
I tell people the music doesn't till 3000 rpms.
I went to the TT in 2015, a mate brought his 1098 with us. The clutch was so noisy! How the hell can you tell if anything is wrong with it. It sounded just like yours did, terrible racket. The bike was hard to start, uncomfortable, noisy but once the road opened up it was like a race horse. That bike had been sold on now and replaced with a pikes peak multi Strada. The motor in that is so quiet in comparison.
Good job but you could have fixed it easy ,,,,, just buy a triumph tiger 😜😜
Piss off Steve 😂
@@ANDY5 I cant iam in lockdown 🤣🤣