Hot take. Ceramicspeed filed this patent not to produce this chain but rather increase the value of the brand in case some bigger company is up for buying ceramicspeed.
This is the most common reason for filing patents. Making the knowledge tangible and something to purchase - adds value to the company. Patents are useless unless you have the means to protect them. Big companies prefer to swap buckets of patents with rivals if they want some knowledge or just buy up smaller companies whop have patented their technology.
Yes! No bike bearings get hot enough to see benefits of ceramic bearing. There is no value in that company it’s just marketing @ trek, specialized, giant, etc.
@@pinkertonpunk I'll be honest - they say use them once or a couple of times max, I reuse mine until they click easily with your hands. I get months+ of uses out of mine. I also include them in the wax, some people say don't wax them but I just put them in with the chains. But once you can click them with your hands, replace them. A pack of 50 SRAM ones is relatively cheap. Carry at least one in your saddle bag on each bike.
Timing chains are round pins type. Exclusively! ..and they are subject to nasty contaminants: soot and acids. That is one reason for special additive packages in engine oil
Well explained 👌👍so Ceramic Speed will be selling multi-thousand $$ entire drivetrains, The Lab 71 S-works $15k top of the line with $10k crankset cassette and pulleys 😆
Nice video, well explained. I'll just point out that there is potential for sliding friction between the side plates, although I suspect you'll cover that in your upcoming video.
Great topic. Getting rid.of the sliding pin hinges is great. I imagine that this might allow for narrower chain in the end. Chain driven 16 speed gewrbox..........
To my understanding it might help improve driveline efficency with a skewed chainline - see fig. 19 b in the patent US11608874 B2. Ingress of dirt might not be that much of a problem which can be deducef from fig. 19 a or the figure shown in the video at 9:35.
Inter Pin Friction nightmare. parts 7,8,9, have to slide against each other as the links rotate relative to each other, and note 6 is longer and if you rocked (not slid) a 7 or 8, the position of the circumferences change relative to 6, hence they must slide (or bind). What friction did they get rid of? They got rif of bearing surface on the inner plates... Also Riveting can only occur on 8 to the outer plate as 6 & 7 shown in diagram to be floating, and the inner plates have a simple round hole. Tiny pin to take the sideways load (the automotive versions do not get. Automotive versions covered in clean oil as well). Designed by or for the marketing department like that Ceramispeed "Driven" disaster.
Correct! There is no rolling motion between the rocker pins and the center floating pin, but pure sliding. Indeed, the sliding speed will be lower than for a round pin due to the radius difference. The contact pressure will also be way higher than for round pins (likely more than 10 times). Bottom line: lower friction, maybe, but I am not convinced until I make a calculation; higher wear, certainly. The wear part I know for sure from wear testing rocker pin transmission chains in sooty oil; they elongate like crazy, while bush chains are running well. Maybe some unobtainium pins from Ceramic speed will do the trick ;)
Might end up on track bikes, particularly for hour records but not gunna be seen anywhere else. Same could be said of their shaft drivetrain and it's not been used anywhere
So the rockers could reduce friction as the chain articulates around the cogs, but in order to step sideways from cog to cog you need that clearance that roller chains have. As the gear cluster has become wider and wider that sideways articulation needed to increase and as such the clearance between the rollers and pins had to increase in kind, this is why higher speed chains wear out sooner than lower speed chains. So the rockers would have to be 3d to allow the chain to "bend" sideways to change gears. As such this would only work on fixed or internally geared systems. Plus they'll likely be heavier and more expensive, to gain 1% efficiency. Not worth it imo but interesting to see development and innovation in chain technology nonetheless.
I enjoyed that, you mentioned that you kept coming back to good quality Dura ace chains etc, I personally would love a in depth technical review from you about chains, for example a Ali express cheap chain Vs 105 Vs Dura ace Vs Kmc Gold. Would great to know if buying a cheap chain Vs an average to expensive is a false economy or even potentially a accident waiting to happen.
So, I've actually turned down numerous offers from the Ali Express chain companies to get free stuff, after seeing how shit they are on other channels eg Trace Velo. But most importantly, your life depends on a chain. In a sprint, on a road, up a climb, if your chain lets go you're potentially looking at an oncoming vehicle. Non redundant member. My preference would be 1. Shimano/campy/ybn 2. Sram 3. Kmc (too many snappages) I would not consider the cheapo ones.
Very interesting, I am not an engineer, so correct me if I’m wrong, but the pitch wouldn’t change for this design. The rocking mechanism is contained in a circular with a fixed center, no different than regular chains. The other rocking chain that you compared it against can’t be contained in a circle this way. I’m also wondering what the change in efficiency, if any there would be from rotating the internals. Considering that the chain is under tension. I’m surprised they didn’t rotate it 10-15 degrees, claiming another marginal gain by doing so.
If there is a rolling action, won't there need to be more clearance between the plates that locate the pins to avoid the sliding friction? In which case there is more room for fouling and dirt (car engine bays aren't susceptible to the elements and dirt like bicycle chains)? BTW I love your content and channel.
What did you think of the new KMC chain and matching 'shark tooth' chainrings that were shown? Few details so far. But their marketing is claiming huge gains (you wouldn't expect anything else).
What are the effects of "crosschaining" on friction? Where your chosen cassette cog isn't inline with your chainring. I would have thought that would be one of the major contributors to drivetrain efficiency losses
Yeh you're right. Its something that 1 x 12 drive train really, really suffer on. If you're climbing in the largest cog on the back, the larger cog efficiency gains are totally overshadp by the lousy chainlines. If i was going to do marathon XC or Gravel event, i would definitely be using a 2x for this reason.
You can clearly see in the drawing that they keep the center ring to cover the rockers (marked "22" in the drawing) . So all the force will be brought onto the rockers through those rings which in turn will slide on the rockers in the same way as they do in conventional chains on the links. I'm not able to see any kind of advantage in this rocker system. It's overly complicated and it looks as if you can't shorten your chain according to your needs.
@@PeakTorque Modern timing chains on modern cars are not actually that durable or reliable anymore chains slip and jump and wear guides out at 50k on some well known German cars ,the service interval for timing belt is 100k on some vehicles
Waxing chains, I’m interested but put off by the initial cost and seems a lot of effort. What I’m most interested to know is how quiet the drivetrain is in practice? I wouldn’t like to invest in setting up only to find I have to keep putting drip wax on to keep it quiet. My rides are usually between 20-60 miles.
Waxing isn't actually that much effort. The initial chain cleaning to remove any lube/grease on it takes some effort (it is a one time only thing though) but after that it is put in crock pot of wax and leave it until everything is melted and hot, give the chain a good stir, remove chain and let it cool. With my waxed chain the drivetrain sounds pretty much like it did when properly lubed with normal chain lube but it doesn't get louder as the lube wears off. The main benefits are that the chain stays clean which is worth any slight increase in effort waxing the chain. No more oily marks on anything that touches the chain. No muck sticking to the chain.
Will it work with chainlines when chain twists? Probably not. I think it’s for track bikes only. Single digit watts matter there, chainring profile can be easily made custom, no contamination too
Just a word of caution regarding the recommended wax there, I see some of their offerings include PTFE:s which is a very problematic group of chemicals (often referred to as forever chemicals). If you are environmentally conscious and fond of the "leave no trace" ethos I would urge you to stay clear of products including that. It's used a lot in all sorts of products including some regular lubes, but every action counts in my book, but obviously up to everyone to decide. There are a bunch of studies and documentaries for anyone interested in knowing more but the most common risks include reproductive damage to organism plus it stays in nature for a very long time etc (they've even found it in polar bears and other far away places). So, just a reminder to be kind, and ride along. Cheers
Is a belt drive really way worse than typical chain and sprockets? Seems like way less parts moving, but curious about the actual belt material VS metal. Just realized internal gears though....
Yeah, the exploded diagram shows the ends being closed. The thing that's puzzling me, is how does the chain stay together? There's nothing I can see that clamps it all together. I guess I should go and read the patent...
@@tompi5 Ahh yes, I see. So in the diagram, part (8) does slot into both other plates (holes (14) and (32)), and presumably is stuck there somehow (peening? electro-welding? some sort of glue? pure friction?). Curiously this does mean that both other rockers (the middle lozenge and the other "side" too - parts (6) and (7)) are floating - there's nothing for the "other side" (7) to bind to on the inner plate, from what I can see. Still, thinking about it _even harder_ (and bear in mind it's late on a Wednesday...), I'm beginning to think Mr Torque's objection is not that the rockers are open to the elements at the side, but that they're open top and bottom. And really when you think about it, the motion of these rockers ... well, it's a funnel that slowly compresses and grinds to death anything that falls into it. Yeah... this is going to be fine isn't it?!
Ceramic Speed sees an opportunity to offer a new product (already existing in a different industry) that they'll adopt and test AND market as a better product, thus justifying a high price for marginal gains (?) that the average cyclist will not notice. So will Cermaic Speeds marketing actually be aimed at the cyclist who is compelled to have the "Next Big Thing"?...more empty wallets...
CeramicSpeed... a company that makes one of the best chain lubes in existence (UFO Drip). This demonstrates both desire and competence to be the best. When a company lilke this makes a move, it's worth watching. Contrast MucOff... a shite dishonest lazy company that will sell you any ole crap whether it's good or not.
Lol at that intro. There's no way Boonen hasn't been a raver with those crisp moves. Reverbed Hambini clearly gets him going.
I just can't unsee your logo as TP, as Teak Pork
The finest wooden 🐷
Hot take. Ceramicspeed filed this patent not to produce this chain but rather increase the value of the brand in case some bigger company is up for buying ceramicspeed.
And/or to disincentivise innovation by stamping their patent trolling all over everything (looking at you Shimano)
Spot on.
This is the most common reason for filing patents. Making the knowledge tangible and something to purchase - adds value to the company. Patents are useless unless you have the means to protect them. Big companies prefer to swap buckets of patents with rivals if they want some knowledge or just buy up smaller companies whop have patented their technology.
Yes! No bike bearings get hot enough to see benefits of ceramic bearing. There is no value in that company it’s just marketing @ trek, specialized, giant, etc.
Very interesting. Also, immersive waxing is the best. Welcome to a whole new world of clean, quiet drivetrains that just don't seem to wear out.
Totally. Discovered this recently and 100% sold. Also don't need to wash my bike hardly at all
@Peter C yes this exactly. Went from 2hrs+ a week across 2x bikes to
Hah, my MSW arrived this morning :-) :-)
How frequently are you guys/gals replacing the quick links when waxing the chains like this?
@@pinkertonpunk I'll be honest - they say use them once or a couple of times max, I reuse mine until they click easily with your hands. I get months+ of uses out of mine. I also include them in the wax, some people say don't wax them but I just put them in with the chains.
But once you can click them with your hands, replace them. A pack of 50 SRAM ones is relatively cheap. Carry at least one in your saddle bag on each bike.
Lol this is by far the best intro clip paired with hambini hello
Top content as always and thanks for the shout out!
Just here for the absolute bangers on the intro
HELLOOOOOO
Sounds great for the track
Timing chains are round pins type. Exclusively! ..and they are subject to nasty contaminants: soot and acids. That is one reason for special additive packages in engine oil
Ceramic Speed. Continuing to solve problems that don't exist.
Looks like you didn't even watch the video, or you failed to understand it.
lol, that intro
PT in top meme Hackney-shape
Well explained 👌👍so Ceramic Speed will be selling multi-thousand $$ entire drivetrains, The Lab 71 S-works $15k top of the line with $10k crankset cassette and pulleys 😆
5:25 classic chain in car engine normally lasts over 200 000km if you change oil every 5-7000km, before it changes color to black
You have some of the most interesting content on cycling UA-cam.
Can’t wait to see what the quick link looks like! 😂 Bunch of fiddly bits.
My thoughts exactly!
Yes . What are they going to sell to you so you can shorten the chain, some expensive chain breaker , with cerami$ bearings!!!???
I bet you thought at least twice before revealing Hagen's stuff haha. Thanks for the insight and practical advice!
Very cool. Thanks for the info share.
Nice video, well explained. I'll just point out that there is potential for sliding friction between the side plates, although I suspect you'll cover that in your upcoming video.
Intro amazing 🤣
HAH I love the evolving of the intro! When your videos don't have the intro they're really missing something.
still a much better idea that osp's and the classified hub even if it needs special chain rings and cogs
Great topic. Getting rid.of the sliding pin hinges is great. I imagine that this might allow for narrower chain in the end. Chain driven 16 speed gewrbox..........
new intro is class
Does Hambini get a cut?
SRAM: yaaay! our new Transmission™ XX SL chain is $150!
Ceramic Speed: hold my beer.
It will stay in the box like the shaft drivetrain
Best intro to date.
Everybody knows the rules.
I almost dropped my coffee. Hambini on steroids, flashed through my head.
Hambini “hold my pen is working “ i mean beer 😂
To my understanding it might help improve driveline efficency with a skewed chainline - see fig. 19 b in the patent US11608874 B2. Ingress of dirt might not be that much of a problem which can be deducef from fig. 19 a or the figure shown in the video at 9:35.
🆕There’s so many new gizmos coming to cycling, and I love it.
Do I want this chain? I doubt it, but I’m certainly interested to see what comes of it.
Inter Pin Friction nightmare. parts 7,8,9, have to slide against each other as the links rotate relative to each other, and note 6 is longer and if you rocked (not slid) a 7 or 8, the position of the circumferences change relative to 6, hence they must slide (or bind). What friction did they get rid of? They got rif of bearing surface on the inner plates...
Also Riveting can only occur on 8 to the outer plate as 6 & 7 shown in diagram to be floating, and the inner plates have a simple round hole. Tiny pin to take the sideways load (the automotive versions do not get. Automotive versions covered in clean oil as well).
Designed by or for the marketing department like that Ceramispeed "Driven" disaster.
Great analysis
Correct! There is no rolling motion between the rocker pins and the center floating pin, but pure sliding. Indeed, the sliding speed will be lower than for a round pin due to the radius difference. The contact pressure will also be way higher than for round pins (likely more than 10 times). Bottom line: lower friction, maybe, but I am not convinced until I make a calculation; higher wear, certainly. The wear part I know for sure from wear testing rocker pin transmission chains in sooty oil; they elongate like crazy, while bush chains are running well. Maybe some unobtainium pins from Ceramic speed will do the trick ;)
Yeah Ceramic speed, like their drivetrain system that got millions of views. Nothing ever came of it. It has been years and now forgotten
Bro, that intro😂
there should be no friction with the locating pin. It merely holds the chain together.
Very interesting.
Might end up on track bikes, particularly for hour records but not gunna be seen anywhere else. Same could be said of their shaft drivetrain and it's not been used anywhere
So the rockers could reduce friction as the chain articulates around the cogs, but in order to step sideways from cog to cog you need that clearance that roller chains have. As the gear cluster has become wider and wider that sideways articulation needed to increase and as such the clearance between the rollers and pins had to increase in kind, this is why higher speed chains wear out sooner than lower speed chains. So the rockers would have to be 3d to allow the chain to "bend" sideways to change gears. As such this would only work on fixed or internally geared systems. Plus they'll likely be heavier and more expensive, to gain 1% efficiency. Not worth it imo but interesting to see development and innovation in chain technology nonetheless.
Hairdresser's spit is 99.5% more efficient than wax, ask hambini
The ultimate in efficiency by blocking out dirt is a BMW motorcycle style Kardan or shaft drive. But that would be heavy.
fully integrated gabber system
back then tom was known to kick up some dust from time to time 😆
I enjoyed that, you mentioned that you kept coming back to good quality Dura ace chains etc, I personally would love a in depth technical review from you about chains, for example a Ali express cheap chain Vs 105 Vs Dura ace Vs Kmc Gold. Would great to know if buying a cheap chain Vs an average to expensive is a false economy or even potentially a accident waiting to happen.
So, I've actually turned down numerous offers from the Ali Express chain companies to get free stuff, after seeing how shit they are on other channels eg Trace Velo. But most importantly, your life depends on a chain. In a sprint, on a road, up a climb, if your chain lets go you're potentially looking at an oncoming vehicle. Non redundant member. My preference would be
1. Shimano/campy/ybn
2. Sram
3. Kmc (too many snappages)
I would not consider the cheapo ones.
According to CeramicSpeed, there is only Magic Unicorn dust in this world.
Maybe a good fit for track bikes, but I doubt there is a sufficiently large market for making something like this just for track.
the did520erv7 doesn't look anything like ceramic speeds idea...
Very interesting,
I am not an engineer, so correct me if I’m wrong, but the pitch wouldn’t change for this design. The rocking mechanism is contained in a circular with a fixed center, no different than regular chains. The other rocking chain that you compared it against can’t be contained in a circle this way.
I’m also wondering what the change in efficiency, if any there would be from rotating the internals. Considering that the chain is under tension. I’m surprised they didn’t rotate it 10-15 degrees, claiming another marginal gain by doing so.
all bikes should have chain guards. it's ridiculous that the chain is exposed to dirt and grime. wouldn't a chain guard be more aero too?
Yes
And how would you like to shift (using current shifting tech)
Just wax mate
chain guards? nah.
How would you shorten or lengthen such a chain?
Asking for a friend that is a bike mechanic and installs new chains on a daily basis …
If there is a rolling action, won't there need to be more clearance between the plates that locate the pins to avoid the sliding friction? In which case there is more room for fouling and dirt (car engine bays aren't susceptible to the elements and dirt like bicycle chains)? BTW I love your content and channel.
What did you think of the new KMC chain and matching 'shark tooth' chainrings that were shown? Few details so far. But their marketing is claiming huge gains (you wouldn't expect anything else).
also, will this chain be as easy to shorten as normal chains? what about quick links? how do you acommodate that?
Peak Torque what do you make of the new Specialized Epic 2023
That Snake-ramic Speed again?
New bike - test ride a G1, right up your street.
Maybe a TT specific special chain.
put chain in a tub of oil..hook up vacuum pump to draw oil "into" links ....then get excess oil off.
maybe they are developing this for the track on single speed
What are the effects of "crosschaining" on friction? Where your chosen cassette cog isn't inline with your chainring.
I would have thought that would be one of the major contributors to drivetrain efficiency losses
Yeh you're right. Its something that 1 x 12 drive train really, really suffer on. If you're climbing in the largest cog on the back, the larger cog efficiency gains are totally overshadp by the lousy chainlines. If i was going to do marathon XC or Gravel event, i would definitely be using a 2x for this reason.
I received a fake shimano ultegra chain on amazon. It only lasted a few hundred miles which is how I discovered it was a counterfeit.
It had better come in gold.
You can clearly see in the drawing that they keep the center ring to cover the rockers (marked "22" in the drawing) . So all the force will be brought onto the rockers through those rings which in turn will slide on the rockers in the same way as they do in conventional chains on the links. I'm not able to see any kind of advantage in this rocker system. It's overly complicated and it looks as if you can't shorten your chain according to your needs.
Is it possible that they design the rocker pin in a slightly conicle way so the potential dirt gets pushed to the sides and possible out a bit?
timing chain works great on Mercedes. And BMW
Id never buy a car with a belt 😂
@@PeakTorque Modern timing chains on modern cars are not actually that durable or reliable anymore chains slip and jump and wear guides out at 50k on some well known German cars ,the service interval for timing belt is 100k on some vehicles
@@1brokenspoke189you are wrong. Big time.
@@1brokenspoke189 100k for a belt? Maybe my knowledge is outdated by most VAG cars it's about 50k
@LucianBotez-yz7nj 20 years as a mechanic says I am correct some vehicles do not make it out of warranty period without issues
From the diagram it looks like the gaps between the rockers are enclosed by a bushing - would that not help keep the dirt out with immersive wax etc.?
Yep there is some sort of roller/busing. But if it gets in, its hard to get out.
Nice Tom Boonen intro
Waxing chains, I’m interested but put off by the initial cost and seems a lot of effort.
What I’m most interested to know is how quiet the drivetrain is in practice? I wouldn’t like to invest in setting up only to find I have to keep putting drip wax on to keep it quiet. My rides are usually between 20-60 miles.
Waxing isn't actually that much effort. The initial chain cleaning to remove any lube/grease on it takes some effort (it is a one time only thing though) but after that it is put in crock pot of wax and leave it until everything is melted and hot, give the chain a good stir, remove chain and let it cool.
With my waxed chain the drivetrain sounds pretty much like it did when properly lubed with normal chain lube but it doesn't get louder as the lube wears off. The main benefits are that the chain stays clean which is worth any slight increase in effort waxing the chain. No more oily marks on anything that touches the chain. No muck sticking to the chain.
Will it work with chainlines when chain twists? Probably not. I think it’s for track bikes only. Single digit watts matter there, chainring profile can be easily made custom, no contamination too
Izumi track chain - around $80
CS track rocker chain - around $800 for 5 watt benefit. Wait, you need chainring and cog, too!
that hellu dancing
Veer (I don't work for them) make a belt drive that uses rivets to join the chain together, worth a look
So, is it a belt or a chain? You mentioned belt drive, then you mention a chain.
Yes it is
@@sepg5084 my mistake. It's a belt
Just a word of caution regarding the recommended wax there, I see some of their offerings include PTFE:s which is a very problematic group of chemicals (often referred to as forever chemicals). If you are environmentally conscious and fond of the "leave no trace" ethos I would urge you to stay clear of products including that. It's used a lot in all sorts of products including some regular lubes, but every action counts in my book, but obviously up to everyone to decide. There are a bunch of studies and documentaries for anyone interested in knowing more but the most common risks include reproductive damage to organism plus it stays in nature for a very long time etc (they've even found it in polar bears and other far away places). So, just a reminder to be kind, and ride along. Cheers
This would work for a fixie.
Just make it golden, pink or neon green.
Is this gonna work or not. Or do we need to clean the chain every 10 km?
Is the peak tour available on patreon?
Not yet. Will be soon
@@PeakTorqueawesome can’t wait 😛
Is a belt drive really way worse than typical chain and sprockets? Seems like way less parts moving, but curious about the actual belt material VS metal. Just realized internal gears though....
Currently a belt drive is restricted to only work with IGH or drive box systems, not cassette drives.
If the ends are closed?
Yeah, the exploded diagram shows the ends being closed. The thing that's puzzling me, is how does the chain stay together? There's nothing I can see that clamps it all together. I guess I should go and read the patent...
Guessing the cut outs in the outer plates are an interference fit?
@@tompi5 Ahh yes, I see. So in the diagram, part (8) does slot into both other plates (holes (14) and (32)), and presumably is stuck there somehow (peening? electro-welding? some sort of glue? pure friction?). Curiously this does mean that both other rockers (the middle lozenge and the other "side" too - parts (6) and (7)) are floating - there's nothing for the "other side" (7) to bind to on the inner plate, from what I can see.
Still, thinking about it _even harder_ (and bear in mind it's late on a Wednesday...), I'm beginning to think Mr Torque's objection is not that the rockers are open to the elements at the side, but that they're open top and bottom. And really when you think about it, the motion of these rockers ... well, it's a funnel that slowly compresses and grinds to death anything that falls into it. Yeah... this is going to be fine isn't it?!
A nice oil bath chain case could prevent this from becoming a mini rock crusher. Fluid friction losses and weight would likely kill any gains.
As others have pointed out, there is a roller - part 22 - and it encloses the rocker bits.
Track bikes?
So, the PIN IS WORKING or not?
What mountain bike you buying?
I'll never buy anything from Ceramic Speed. I think they are a gimmick company that preys on dummies for profit.
you're not wrong. when I here the name 'ceramic speed', I think 'rip-off'.
A question. What's the point of the flat top plates on the Sram's new chain?
Looks cool
@@hectorkidds9840 Sadly, probably the only real reason
...for the coolness factor; zero functional purpose.
Not cool and adds weight!
Maybe being developed for track / hour record attempts. Too fiddly (and likely expensive) for 99.9999% of other bicycle applications.
Guess the price ..... add a zero.....
Car engine timing chains are wearing out stupid fast now people are not doing oil filter changing to save money.
since they came up with they roller bearing direct drivetrain, i have no trust in their engineering anymore
Hmm yeh. That did seem like a school/intern project!
Ceramic Speed sees an opportunity to offer a new product (already existing in a different industry) that they'll adopt and test AND market as a better product, thus justifying a high price for marginal gains (?) that the average cyclist will not notice. So will Cermaic Speeds marketing actually be aimed at the cyclist who is compelled to have the "Next Big Thing"?...more empty wallets...
I think you got informative and great content but please change intro, at least take bambini scream off it.
Ceramic Greed. Preying on gullible, not solving actual problems.
That intro was, ultragay…
Seems like a pointless technology
So an expensive drive train for hardly any benefits.
CeramicSpeed... a company that makes one of the best chain lubes in existence (UFO Drip). This demonstrates both desire and competence to be the best. When a company lilke this makes a move, it's worth watching. Contrast MucOff... a shite dishonest lazy company that will sell you any ole crap whether it's good or not.
what's the weight? give me the roller chain if it's lighter.