In his first ever postseason at-bat, Moreno hit more home runs, had more RBI, and scored just as many runs as the entire Jays roster did in their series with the Twins
Moreno was the top prospect in all baseball last year. A kid of that calibre should be a cornerstone of your franchise. But if for some reason, you decide to trade him, it should be a blockbuster deal where you get a stud back, not a .220 hitter. That trade alone should be enough to get Atkins fired!
When i heard about the trade. My reaction was , you traded the wrong catcher. Kirk is never going to repeat his numbers from that season. A straight up trade Kirk for Varsho would have been reasonable.
I called out the trade from day 1. I thought it was a bad move. However, something people are forgetting is that Varsho had a 3.9 bWAR despite how awful he was offensively. If he can get to even just league average with the bat he could be a star. I'm not giving up hope with him just yet
@@ronald7523 I hope he grows up, he looks like a teenager physically. This is a ridiculous suggestion where I am half joking but either he takes some juice or he should hit the gym.
Anyone with a brain cell in their head could see Moreno was the real deal. Best Defensive catcher in the NL this year and wouldn't ya know it, he can really hit too. I won't be shocked if that kid ends up in the HOF. You don't let a unicorn like that go for a defense only outfielder. Oh and a year of Gurriel Jr. to boot. Absolutely brutal trade, I hated it when it happened and I hate it even more now.
There was no pressing need to trade Moreno, due to his defensive versatility. A year ago I was assuming and hoping they would roll with three catchers, with Moreno getting quite a bit of outfield time until the inevitable injury happened to Kirk or Jansen.
I’m a big fan of varsho’s game, although he serves as more of a bottom of the lineup guy, which is not what atkins wanted him for What I’m not the biggest fan of is kirk’s game, I understand how valuable he was defensively but when we have a guy like gabby in the system it doesn’t make a lot of sense to keep Kirk, especially with jano in the mix
Varsho was supposed to be the power left hander that crushed righties. He had an OPS of .665 against righties. He was an easy out on most nights this year and kept dropping down the batting order.
Could the devils advocate be that Lourdes Jr. moving away from the “immaturity” in Toronto Blue Jays that he is one of the few who have grown further as a player than of what he was as a Blue Jay. He may have been the same as like the past few seasons and continue to be that way. It’s just good that those two are having success though it would have been nice if it was if he remained doing that as a Blue Jay.
Happy for Lordes and Moreno personally, but the Jays should've used those hits and clutches of Gabby and Lourdes this year 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️. Nick, you're right, "No-sho" was a rally killer and if this Jays had the bases loaded and no one (or 2nd/3rd 2ith no one out), Varsho was an automatic strikeout or pulled groundout to second base. A .220 average is a trade for 2 awesome players isn't acceptable and Shatkins is the ONLY one to blame. Let's hope he finds SOMETHING in the off-season (?) GO Jays Go.
I'm fine with Teo gone, in favor of the bullpen depth and making room for KK. The absence of Lourdes broke up the core that came up through the farm system, and disrupted the chemistry of the team.
I agree, they’re hapless. Last year Atkins traded pitching prospect Nick Frasso to the Dodgers. Frasso has a truly elite fastball, and has rocketed up MLB’s prospect rankings. He now sits at #65, which would make him the Jays #2 prospect, behind Tiedemann and ahead of Orelvis Martinez. His return for Frasso….Mitch White! Enough said.
Hated the trade from day 1. I said then, I would only trade Moreno for Corbin Carroll. Atkins is horrendous. Never understood why Lordes didn’t get a shot at playing 3b as he was a shortstop originally. Trade for a guy in Varsho, who’s career year was batting .235. Just unforgivable. Fire Shapiro and Atkins now.
Proved that again last night didn't he, flowing to his left he rotated his hips and threw a flame to 2nd. Kirk, well he would of still been walk jogging up the 3rd Base Line to get the ball.
Here's what I said following the trade: After giving it some more thought, I'm not a fan of this deal from Toronto's perspective Now, I should say, I'm not familiar enough with the players involved to say with any certainty what their short and long term impact will be for their respective teams, however, I feel like this is a deal that Arizona would make 10/10 times Perhaps the Jays' coaching staff sees a flaw in Varsho's swing, or approach at the plate, and think with some minor changes they can maximize his potential as a hitter, but he has a career OBP of .306, and as it stands, that's not the kind of bat I'm giving up Moreno for If Arizona was in need of a young catcher, why weren't the Jays offering Moreno for Carroll straight up? Again, I haven't seen Moreno and Varsho enough to have a strong opinion about their play, but based on what I do know, this one has the potential to haunt the Jays for the next decade
I am not putting this on Varsho, the reason we made this trade is because we thought Springer, Bo, Vlad and Kirk were gonna run produce better, they didn't making Varsho trade look horrible. Varsho did his job on defense, maybe strike out a little less would be nice.
Varsho for Lourdes Gurriel Jr. was a poor trade for the Jays, adding Moreno was just one of the dumbest moves ever. Moving the #1 prospect in baseball at a premium position for a left fielder who isn't a superstar is just unbelievably stupid.
Gurriel is set to become a free-agent this winter, whereas Varsho still has 3 more seasons left of team control... Gurriel + Kirk for Varsho would've been acceptable from a value standpoint
Man its pretty cool watching you guys comment on the jays . Its very obvious you guys are absolute 100% JAYS. I also commend you on your baseball IQ and knowledge. A joy to watch that I look forward to watching every show I can find.💯
Varsho had a career batting avaerage of .234 before the trade. He's so bad he could even match that. Atkins has to go and since Shapiro didn't do the job he needs to go too.
You are reading the situation wrong. In the season prior to the trade, Moreno was called up as an injury replacement and he was given every chance to shine but his performance was pedestrian, so he became trade bait. Gurriel who was traded with him was hot and cold all season and there was no way to know which persona would show up on game day. Varsho brought stellar defence to Toronto, but his batting went south while Moreno an Gurriel blossomed with the Diamondbacks. All this demonstrates that the problem in Toronto is the coaching staff and that they need to be replaced across the board.
atkins destroyed the team with this trade when he's fired he'll never get another gm job lol teams now know they can con atkins into making a sucker trade he's bad man he's bad they kept kirk over moreno how f......g stupid
Since the embarrassing end to the Jays post season I've been rooting for Arizona. I always liked Gurriel and that whole team is very likable. Also the Phillies are not likable at all. GO Dbacks!!
I was upset when they let Lourdes go and I said the trade for Daulton was a horrible trade regardless of Daultons defence and now that Monero and Lourdes played great this year what I though was true unfortunately.
Varsho was brought in to improve the outfield defense, anything from his bat would have been extra. The Jays issue was that they had too many players who fit the profile of all glove, no bat, too much swing and miss in Chapman, Kiermaier (who didn't have a bad year but his #'s were above and beyond his career avg's), Belt, Janssen, Biggio and Varsho. No one expected Vlad and Kirk to regress as much as they did. The trade was pretty much Moreno for Varsho. Even though he was an upcoming free agent, Gurriel was included as the front office wanted to shift from the "home run jacket" fun loving group to a more serious group and he and Hernandez were the leaders of that group. It may take a couple seasons of losing baseball for this team to recuperate?
seriously. it's like this front office doesn't understand how thumbs work. it's not even hindsight. there's no way Kirk's value after 2022 was ever going to be higher and that's when he Skype be traded for max value.
Jays were hard up for a left handed bat and chose potential instead of a proven player. That being said most of the team under performed offensively this year.
Most Jays fans are not even aware that the attendance got so bad in Cleveland during the Shapiro days that empty truck trailers were mounted in the right field upper deck to cover the sight of empty seats. Each cargo box was used to honor the team's retired star players.
The fans are over-reacting to this trade......Varsho ain't that bad, it's his second full season in the majors, in another league, facing pitchers that he never faced before. It's not surprising that he struggled in his first season here, like I said, he's a very young player.....But the potential is there. He has power, speed and defense. The bat will eventually improve!!!! The truth is, he just need to be an average bat for him to be a star because he has everything else.....And yes, I agree, we pay too high of a price for him, but he's going to be a good one....
No one is complaining that varsho is “bad”, and majority of us can agree on that. it’s just the price we gave up for him is ridiculous. You don’t give up the top prospect in baseball and another good clutch hitter for a defensive first center fielder who hits for a 230 avg in 3 consecutive seasons. Varsho will likely get better at the plate, but Moreno is already one of the better catchers in the league who consistently makes contact and is showing so much potential these playoffs. It’s making the trade look completely lopsided.
Ross Atkins screwed up the Cleveland Indians before he and Shapiro were given the boot. It’s not too surprising to me what’s happening up in Toronto. Sounds like accountability isn’t happening with the Jays. Also playing for Tory Lovello with the D-Backs means a lot too. He seems to bring out the best in every player. A good manager can make a big difference over a long season! I watched quite a few D-Backs games all season . They always hustle -even when they are down. Fun team to follow!
I get why you are doing these negative takes since there are many “Doomers” in the 💬 chat. I respect that,but look forward to seeing future “content” that is geared towards what is next to make our Jays the team we all can love.
I think it may be to soon to tell about Varsho versatility. He has had one year in the AL i think pitching is different between both leagues and some players have to get adjusted i know that Varsho first year was non stellar but hopefully next year he will have it all figured out . I also hated to lose Moreno but we have 2 good catchers already
He's had the the equivalent of 3 seasons under his belt and every year he's in and around a .220 batting average. Great defender but an underwhelming bat. This is who he is, I don't see that changing much in either direction.
Kirk wasn't very good this year. He's got some big holes in his game, mainly throwing out base stealers and being one of the slowest base runners in the league. Every time I saw Kirk ahead of other Jays base runners this year I groaned because I knew he would hold everyone else up behind him and cost them potential runs.@@justinedwards7777
Do a video on the reverse of the ex cubs curse. ( the team with most ex cubs always lose ). The ex blue jays boost. The team with most ex Jays always win.
I'm honestly sick and tired of the discourse. You make deals to attempt to better your team. At its core all of the Blue Jays underachieved. I expect Varsho to be better but as Maple Leafs fan who watched Scott Neidermayer (Hall of Famer Defenceman) leave via trade, Raptors with Tracy McGrady (Hall of Famer) leave via Free Agency. I'm conditioned here. I want Moreno to be successful but this discussion has been nonstop since the deal happened.
For this trade not to be outrageously one-sided Varsho will need to seriously step up his game. Like hit 3rd between Bo and Vlady. He’ll need to hit for avg, pump 35+ HR and drive in 100 RBI’s
The Jays traded for this season, limped into the playoffs, and got swept in the WC Round. The Dbacks traded for the future, and are in game 6 of the NLCS. Maybe the Jays are returning the favour of the Robbie Ray/Travis Bergen trade.
Give me a break you know it’s another Atkins horrible trade , get rid of Atkins and the manager they are both out smarted in trades and our manager gets out coached almost every game
I think the Blue Jays' management is a joke but it is unfair to look at a single year and be upset about how a trade works out. This smacks of piling on a bad management team.
Its simple, last year we had the perfect team minus pitching, all we had to do was fix our pitching, then our boys could have grown together and by next year we would be a team to reckon with hell we could have went all the way this year with that same team and our pitching staff this year. This year we focused too much on analytics and not focused on the actual people. Analytics will only get you so far. The team this year was broken, no one was having fun, no one was playing as a team. This tells me there was bad politics going on with leadership behind the scenes. Im ok with Schneider if he grows a pair and tell Atkins to shut up and let him do his job, if hes not willing to do it then he needs to go.
Man oh man!.. when they traded LOURDES I was mad as hell!.. what a player!!. Great arm, and getting big hits!. I it's very time ago but, they traded RYAN GOINS I lost my mind aswell!.. I like : varsho : but lourdes just a great great player !.. to valuable to loose!!. 😢 . Also, Hernandez' was great to!!. Should of kept them both .. my opinion.
I think people are overreacting just because Moreno is hot in these playoffs he had 7 hr this year and a 283 avg yes good but just mainly contact, Gurriel is older then Varsho, I was mad at the time too but I think Varsho will do better next year he had 20 hr the season prior he had 27 a big drop off but not a massive one I hope we get all the offensive help we can get Springer is getting up there in age and we can’t rely on Varsho
Still a one sided trade no matter how you slice it. The deal should have been Moreno for Varsho + another player from Arizona not plus Gurriel. Moreno was the highest ranked prospect in baseball the year before. A unicorn great defensive catcher that can hit. Those are a big deal and don't come cheap.
Moreno is also four years younger than Varsho. When Varsho was a 23 year old rookie he hit .188. Aside from hitting .284 this year, Moreno was the top rated defensive catcher in baseball for defensive runs saved and throwing out runners. And he’s been a clutch hitter in the playoffs, with 3 HR, 8 RBIs and a .901 OPS. Meanwhile, Varsho went 0 for 6 with 3 strikeouts. Moreno was the #1 prospect in all baseball last year, and has lived up to that promise. There’s no way to sugarcoat it, Atkins got fleeced, it was an awful trade
@@brianpashka9152 yeah but it’s not like Varsho stinks he needs to adapt to Toronto it’s always like this in sports when a guy goes to a new team he doesn’t do good in the first year. At the time Moreno was just a contact hitter and still pretty much is he’s just having a hot playoffs and Gurriel was terrible defensively we got Varsho mainly for his defence. At the time Kirk and Jansen came off really strong seasons I’m sure it was a difficult decision for him
everyone needs to calm down, this was a good trade at the time. if kirk and varsho hit as we expected them to hit, we aren't complaining at all. the whole jays team took a step back offensively this year except for Bo.
i to was devastated immediately. i knew it was a mistake, it was a shitty Xmas present,and and everyone i knew thought the same. then theirs the hitting staff i wanted fired last may aint helping anybody.
I immediately hated this trade but was willing to give Varsho the benefit of the doubt. He woefully underperformed for me. It was painful to watch him at the plate. Let's hope he can improve the hitting in 2024. Still Atkins lost this trade like he loses most. A terrible GM who should have been let go.
Been sayin' this for months. Let's face it: the Blew Jays biggest weakness is timely hitting and scoring runs. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. has a lifetime batting average with the sacks full, that is other-worldly. So what does Ross Atkinss do? He gives him away along with our catcher for the future to land yet another weak-hitting outfielder. And let's not forget Atkins didn't even throw his hat in the ring to possibly secure the services of generational talent, Trea Turner, when it became clear he'd be parting ways with the Dodgers. Look at what Turner's doing now with Philly. Fire Ross Atkins and do it now. And if Shapiro won't do it, FIRE HIS ASS TOO.
the real problem with Toronto teams is they aren't owned by one owner who wants to win its company owned and only thing that matters is money not winning but money
Big loss for Toronto. The Jays lost two very good bats, and adequate defensive players for a good glove and mediocre bat. To quote Cher… “if I could turn back time”
if the other bats that were supposed to be doing the heavy lifting did it, no one would be talking about this. I say this as a huge Gabby stan. I knew his worth. But Arizona would never have taken Kirk. Varsho is a gold glove defender who takes amazing routes to the ball and was batting well going into the Minnesota games. I'm sorry but the Frank Francisco for Mike Napoli trade was SOOOOOOOOO much worse. So was Yan Gomes for fucking Esmil Rogers. People need to calm down. Varsho even had 20 HR. Like he provided the value. Gurriel Jr was never going to re sign and chances are hes not on Arizona next year. Moreno is a stud. I know. But Varsho is great, has team control til 27? There's logic as to why it was done. We can argue all day that they traded the wrong catcher, etc. But again, if the bats did their job, this wouldnt even be talked about. Chapman, Vladdy, hell Springer. Like they all had off years. None worse than Chapman. Guy is a power bat. He sure never seemed to be this yr. And Jansen and Bo were the ones that had to carry the load with KK and Belt sometimes contributing. And the Davis Schneider run. Either way RISP was awful, thats not on Varsho.
Remember. The Toronto Blue Jays are not meant for the fans. They are merely a division of Rogers Communications. Shapiro and Atkins are good corporate figures who turn a tidy short term profit each year for the benefit of Rogers shareholders. That is what counts now. The shareholders, who own stock in the corporation. If you are a fan of World Series contenders, Toronto is not your town. Be happy that they can back their way into the first round of playoffs under cost controls. Yuck!!!
seems the best move at this point is to send Ross Atkins packing. Don't let him touch anything else. I'm inclined to believe Shapiro should join him. Worst thing the Jays did was let Alex Anthopolous walk. The Jays need to grow up. Appears they were more worried about and involved in making sickeningly happy time commercials than developing the talent. It had to be disruptive to the team as a whole. Vladdy's perceived stardom put his head in the clouds. He needed to focus on baseball, base-running, keeping his mind in the game. The homerun trots around the bases with the childish gestures are worn. He should be embarrassed now, enough. Run the bases with a fist pump, a cheer and clap of hands to the bench ok but the stops and stutter steps and finger to the mouth as a hush to the crowd are ridiculously self-indulgent and embarrassingly worn out. The inability of the Jays to hit with RISP was extremely annoying considering the alleged talent on the team. Did mgmnt over-evaluate the talent? Was the talent mis-managed? Whatever, changes are needed. You can't put sour milk back in the fridge thinking it will be better tomorrow.
comical that the Moreno/Varsho trade is still be justified in a positive light. Is there a fan base and media core so receptive and accepting of repeated failure and disappointment as exists in Toronto? Blue Jays, 8 years of failure, shapiro still in charge, and bringing all his yes men back.
Varsho I like a lot but he is an offensive liability which I could take if it was just Gurriel for Varsho but the fact it was the top catching prospect in BASEBALL at the time you gave up aswell to get him to over correct for a mid outfield defense wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t the outfield that blew the wild card game against Seattle. I get analytics are apart of the game but you need to get on base and drive runs home for the analytics to be worth it, Blue Jays have been an anti clutch team for a while now and just because you hired a hitting coach who is friends with Miggy, doesn’t make him Miggy. And I do like Kirk, he’s a short king but the big thing is he doesn’t run, doesn’t hustle to the plate and hasn’t gotten that under control. And between him and Vladdy he has grounded into too many double plays that his one year of offensive production looks like a complete fluke. It is on the coaches to get them into better habits but it’s also on the players to find the game that works for them. Management has been such an issue and again, Shapiro and Atkins are bad for baseball haven’t won anything and just walked dick first into a an organization that will pay them more and has a bigger payroll than Cleveland. Toronto’s owner have money and they are wasting it by having those two clowns run the show.
the offense is god awful and it starts with their approach at the plate. sometimes theyre committing to the whole hit for contact bit, but then i will watch the next 6 batters in a row all trying to hit a ball out of the park. varsho is just one of several hitters in this lineup that underperformed. that underperformance is why we are even bringing up the move that got rid of moreno and gurriel. this team cannot enter next year without addressing the offense. you just cannot bank on guys to bounceback or play out of their minds. make moves, make signings, whatever needs to be done so we dont feel sorry as hell for every pitcher that has a great game with no run support.
Make no mistake, this is the worst trade ever by the Blue Jays, ever! I call it "The Trade of Infamy". Any other place it would have cost the GM's job. Atkins worst GM ever, he's duked by every GM he does deals with 😡🤬
Again Ross Atkins was bewitched by the Stat Gods. Both Varsho and Keirmier were big time victims of "The Shift" which was eliminated for the 2023 season. Theoretically both should have seen their BA's improve by 20 or 30 points over 2022. Didn't happen, in fact Varsho declined BIG TIME. My big question at the time was why the F#CK wasn't it Kirk instead of Gabby M? Still an overpayment even if Varsho hit like he did in 2022. Dumb move Ross!
Atkins better have security around him because people are gonna wanna go after him for the stupid trade. In other words. He should probably leave town like seriously
I don't know why people are continuing to rehash this over and over and over. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, fans were screaming for a left-handed bat and better defence. The Jays made a trade for someone who seemed to check both boxes. Gurriel was the obvious choice to trade given he was in his last season before free agency, but the D-Backs weren't open to a straight one-for-one trade. Jays had an extra catcher. They weren't going to trade Jansen and Kirk was just off an All Star season so they weren't going to trade him. Moreno was a great prospect with limited MLB experience. He was the obvious choice. It hurt to let him go but prospects are jusst that ... prospects. Front office didn't have a crystal ball telling them what a success Moreno would definitely be. Looking at it now, yeah, it would be nice if we hadn't lt him go, but at the time, it was a decent looking trade. Sure it's disappointing, given the poor performance of Kirk this year vs the great season Moreno is having, but fans need to get over it. To quote Rafiki, "It doesn't matter. It's in the past." Fans need to move on. Who knows. Varsho may come back next year and have an amazing season, both offensively and defensively. I'm happy for Moreno, because if we'd kept him, he probably wouldn't have had the chance to play the way he has in Arizona.
You sir, are a casual fan. Moreno wasn't 'just a prospect' - he was as much a blue chipper as Vlad and Bo, at a premium position, and was MLB ready. You think a team can succeed by addressing an area of need each offseason by trading their Vlad or Bo? Maybe we could have called up Baltimore at the time and offered them Guriel for Gunner Henderson who was, you know, 'just a prospect'.
First of all, I'm not a "sir" and I'm not a casual fan. I've been a fan of this team for at least 40 years! Moreno was a prospect. He wasn't on the team roster. Was he a "blue chipper"? Yes, he was a very good prospect, but a prospect nonetheless, as were Bo and Vladdy when they were still in AAA. At the time of the trade, we had 2 catchers already. There was no room for Moreno on the team. Do I wish we'd kept him? Hell yeah. I wish we'd kept Lourdes too since he is my favourite player (note my profile pic). But the trade was done and it's time to move on.
@@kflowersmith Moreno was signed as an infielder, and had been used in the outfield and infield at the MLB level. The team could've still got him into the lineup, due to his versatility. Kirk or Jansen were bound to get injured at some point during the season.
Good idea to keep Kirk over Merano awesome this team is a bottom feeder and will be for a long long time it will look good on them Vlad your house has major leaks
I like Varsho but but we gave up too much to get him. Gurriel jr for Varsho would've been a better swap. I don't understand why Atkins hasn't been fired by Shapiro. IMO, they both need to go.
Moreno was the primary target in the trade. Lourdes was only added in order to outbid the Yankees. The Lourdes contract was worth considerably less than the Varsho contract, and is about to become completely worthless.
I know you gotta make content but I think our community should tone it down. Toronto sports is always reactionary. It’s still too soon to write off Varsho. He’s not the one to blame and neither is the trade. Look to our “stars” first
Blew Jays are playing the fans just like the Maple Losers. Keep the team free of winners, push merch and jam the seat prices. I'm not supporting BJ's until 2025, if they start winning. If not, 2026.
It's Moreno's first season he could flope like Vladdy did, who knows. Jays fans just need to move on and get over it. The stats the two put up this year were not guaranteed if they stayed with the Jays.
Wrong he spent more than 50% of last year (2022) with the Jay's. They liked him last year so much that they carried 3 catchers for big parts of last season. And I hate 2 for 1 trades , Gurriel was enough for Varsho.
@@nancymilawski1048 The Lourdes contract was worth considerably less than the Varsho contract, and is about to become completely worthless. He was only added to the trade in order to outbid the Yankees. Who spent more than 50% of 2022 with the Blue Jays? I know you're not talking about Moreno there, since he was only with them for 25 games. He didn't even get the 130 at-bats in 2022 required to lose rookie status, so he's eligible for Rookie of the Year votes in 2023.
In his first ever postseason at-bat, Moreno hit more home runs, had more RBI, and scored just as many runs as the entire Jays roster did in their series with the Twins
Sure would be nice if the Jays drafted a player who's clutch in the playoffs like that...oh wait a minute.
Atkins is a joke. Worst GM
Moreno was the top prospect in all baseball last year. A kid of that calibre should be a cornerstone of your franchise.
But if for some reason, you decide to trade him, it should be a blockbuster deal where you get a stud back, not a .220 hitter.
That trade alone should be enough to get Atkins fired!
When i heard about the trade. My reaction was , you traded the wrong catcher. Kirk is never going to repeat his numbers from that season. A straight up trade Kirk for Varsho would have been reasonable.
Getting rid of Teo was all we needed to do to improve the outfield defence.
I'd have included Gurriel as well, so Kirk + Gurriel for Varsho would've been okay given Gurriel's pending free-agency
Once Shapiro left Cleveland, Cleveland started winning. We were winning, and then Shapiro showed up. Am I the only one who sees 👀 this?
I’ve been saying this for years
Been saying this.
No I’ve been saying that for years they have to go for blue jays to move on they come as a package so they exit as a package.
I called out the trade from day 1. I thought it was a bad move. However, something people are forgetting is that Varsho had a 3.9 bWAR despite how awful he was offensively. If he can get to even just league average with the bat he could be a star. I'm not giving up hope with him just yet
Varsho looks so young. He's not even matured yet but he's a hell of an infielder. In coming years he may really come into his own.
He may grow to be like Moreno lol
@@ronald7523 I hope he grows up, he looks like a teenager physically. This is a ridiculous suggestion where I am half joking but either he takes some juice or he should hit the gym.
Anyone with a brain cell in their head could see Moreno was the real deal. Best Defensive catcher in the NL this year and wouldn't ya know it, he can really hit too. I won't be shocked if that kid ends up in the HOF. You don't let a unicorn like that go for a defense only outfielder. Oh and a year of Gurriel Jr. to boot. Absolutely brutal trade, I hated it when it happened and I hate it even more now.
There was no pressing need to trade Moreno, due to his defensive versatility. A year ago I was assuming and hoping they would roll with three catchers, with Moreno getting quite a bit of outfield time until the inevitable injury happened to Kirk or Jansen.
It hurts to see Lourdes & Moreno get big hits for the D-backs
I’m a big fan of varsho’s game, although he serves as more of a bottom of the lineup guy, which is not what atkins wanted him for
What I’m not the biggest fan of is kirk’s game, I understand how valuable he was defensively but when we have a guy like gabby in the system it doesn’t make a lot of sense to keep Kirk, especially with jano in the mix
Varsho was supposed to be the power left hander that crushed righties. He had an OPS of .665 against righties. He was an easy out on most nights this year and kept dropping down the batting order.
@@craigharrison5406 and Kirk was equally as useless. Plus he had average at best defence to boot.
Could the devils advocate be that Lourdes Jr. moving away from the “immaturity” in Toronto Blue Jays that he is one of the few who have grown further as a player than of what he was as a Blue Jay. He may have been the same as like the past few seasons and continue to be that way. It’s just good that those two are having success though it would have been nice if it was if he remained doing that as a Blue Jay.
Happy for Lordes and Moreno personally, but the Jays should've used those hits and clutches of Gabby and Lourdes this year 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️. Nick, you're right, "No-sho" was a rally killer and if this Jays had the bases loaded and no one (or 2nd/3rd 2ith no one out), Varsho was an automatic strikeout or pulled groundout to second base. A .220 average is a trade for 2 awesome players isn't acceptable and Shatkins is the ONLY one to blame. Let's hope he finds SOMETHING in the off-season (?) GO Jays Go.
Imagine how much better the jays would have been this year with Hernandez, Moreno and gurriel jr in the line up
I'm fine with Teo gone, in favor of the bullpen depth and making room for KK. The absence of Lourdes broke up the core that came up through the farm system, and disrupted the chemistry of the team.
Ross Atkins traded one of the best prospects in all of baseball for a late inning defensive replacement
The Blue Jays front office is just hapless. I think a spinning wheel of decisions would be right more often. I say hire the spinning wheel!
I agree, they’re hapless.
Last year Atkins traded pitching prospect Nick Frasso to the Dodgers. Frasso has a truly elite fastball, and has rocketed up MLB’s prospect rankings. He now sits at #65, which would make him the Jays #2 prospect, behind Tiedemann and ahead of Orelvis Martinez.
His return for Frasso….Mitch White!
Enough said.
Hated the trade from day 1. I said then, I would only trade Moreno for Corbin Carroll. Atkins is horrendous. Never understood why Lordes didn’t get a shot at playing 3b as he was a shortstop originally. Trade for a guy in Varsho, who’s career year was batting .235. Just unforgivable. Fire Shapiro and Atkins now.
Don’t forget that Moreno has a cannon of an arm as well.
Proved that again last night didn't he, flowing to his left he rotated his hips and threw a flame to 2nd. Kirk, well he would of still been walk jogging up the 3rd Base Line to get the ball.
Varsho got worse under Jays management and coaching. Moreno and Lourdes got better under D-backs management and coaching. It's not about the players.
It’s true!
Lourdes was the best RISP hitter on the club. Moreno was the best catching prospect in the organization.
You traded those 2 for VARSHO!!!???
WTF?!
Here's what I said following the trade:
After giving it some more thought, I'm not a fan of this deal from Toronto's perspective
Now, I should say, I'm not familiar enough with the players involved to say with any certainty what their short and long term impact will be for their respective teams, however, I feel like this is a deal that Arizona would make 10/10 times
Perhaps the Jays' coaching staff sees a flaw in Varsho's swing, or approach at the plate, and think with some minor changes they can maximize his potential as a hitter, but he has a career OBP of .306, and as it stands, that's not the kind of bat I'm giving up Moreno for
If Arizona was in need of a young catcher, why weren't the Jays offering Moreno for Carroll straight up?
Again, I haven't seen Moreno and Varsho enough to have a strong opinion about their play, but based on what I do know, this one has the potential to haunt the Jays for the next decade
Perhaps if we hadn’t made that trade, jays would still be playing now
Any body who knows baseball knew when this trade went down he royally screwed up, nothing against Varsho but he was overpaid for him
I try not to dwell it, then I see his name being mentioned in clutch situation
With Jays coaching staffs, I wonder if Moreno would have had a breakout season here 😂😂
Good point! Blue Jays hitting coaches make hitters worse!
Agreed. Very good point. They would’ve ruined Tony Gwynn’s swing. How on earth can coaching staff and upper management still keep their jobs????
I had thought at the time of the trade that it was a bad idea
I am not putting this on Varsho, the reason we made this trade is because we thought Springer, Bo, Vlad and Kirk were gonna run produce better, they didn't making Varsho trade look horrible. Varsho did his job on defense, maybe strike out a little less would be nice.
Its true! But you forgot Chapman as well! If every hit close to expectations…
Most of morenos war came from being the top ranked defensive catcher in mlb. This video ignores morenos defense
Varsho for Lourdes Gurriel Jr. was a poor trade for the Jays, adding Moreno was just one of the dumbest moves ever. Moving the #1 prospect in baseball at a premium position for a left fielder who isn't a superstar is just unbelievably stupid.
Gurriel is set to become a free-agent this winter, whereas Varsho still has 3 more seasons left of team control...
Gurriel + Kirk for Varsho would've been acceptable from a value standpoint
Lourdes was added to the trade to outbid the Yankees. Moreno was the primary in the trade.
Man its pretty cool watching you guys comment on the jays . Its very obvious you guys are absolute 100% JAYS. I also commend you on your baseball IQ and knowledge. A joy to watch that I look forward to watching every show I can find.💯
Varsho had a career batting avaerage of .234 before the trade. He's so bad he could even match that. Atkins has to go and since Shapiro didn't do the job he needs to go too.
Huge mistake, 100 absolutely agree. LG, just look at his clutch hitting....hmmm what did we miss this year....oh clutch hitting
You are reading the situation wrong. In the season prior to the trade, Moreno was called up as an injury replacement and he was given every chance to shine but his performance was pedestrian, so he became trade bait. Gurriel who was traded with him was hot and cold all season and there was no way to know which persona would show up on game day. Varsho brought stellar defence to Toronto, but his batting went south while Moreno an Gurriel blossomed with the Diamondbacks. All this demonstrates that the problem in Toronto is the coaching staff and that they need to be replaced across the board.
whatchuchutalkin about whillis
atkins destroyed the team with this trade when he's fired he'll never get another gm job lol teams now know they can con atkins into making a sucker trade he's bad man he's bad they kept kirk over moreno how f......g stupid
Since the embarrassing end to the Jays post season I've been rooting for Arizona. I always liked Gurriel and that whole team is very likable. Also the Phillies are not likable at all. GO Dbacks!!
One of the worst In professional sports history. Close to the Doug Gilmour Gary Leeman trade in the NHL.
How about the Michael Young trade in 2000?
The Diamond backs are laughing. They could make it to the World Series!
I was upset when they let Lourdes go and I said the trade for Daulton was a horrible trade regardless of Daultons defence and now that Monero and Lourdes played great this year what I though was true unfortunately.
Varsho was brought in to improve the outfield defense, anything from his bat would have been extra. The Jays issue was that they had too many players who fit the profile of all glove, no bat, too much swing and miss in Chapman, Kiermaier (who didn't have a bad year but his #'s were above and beyond his career avg's), Belt, Janssen, Biggio and Varsho. No one expected Vlad and Kirk to regress as much as they did. The trade was pretty much Moreno for Varsho. Even though he was an upcoming free agent, Gurriel was included as the front office wanted to shift from the "home run jacket" fun loving group to a more serious group and he and Hernandez were the leaders of that group. It may take a couple seasons of losing baseball for this team to recuperate?
It doesn't matter. No changes were made at the levels where they were needed. We are a sucker fanbase and management knows it.
Should have traded Kirk
seriously. it's like this front office doesn't understand how thumbs work. it's not even hindsight. there's no way Kirk's value after 2022 was ever going to be higher and that's when he Skype be traded for max value.
Jays were hard up for a left handed bat and chose potential instead of a proven player. That being said most of the team under performed offensively this year.
Most Jays fans are not even aware that the attendance got so bad in Cleveland during the Shapiro days that empty truck trailers were mounted in the right field upper deck to cover the sight of empty seats. Each cargo box was used to honor the team's retired star players.
The fans are over-reacting to this trade......Varsho ain't that bad, it's his second full season in the majors, in another league, facing pitchers that he never faced before. It's not surprising that he struggled in his first season here, like I said, he's a very young player.....But the potential is there. He has power, speed and defense. The bat will eventually improve!!!! The truth is, he just need to be an average bat for him to be a star because he has everything else.....And yes, I agree, we pay too high of a price for him, but he's going to be a good one....
ok, maybe but did they over pay for him? seems so
No one is complaining that varsho is “bad”, and majority of us can agree on that. it’s just the price we gave up for him is ridiculous. You don’t give up the top prospect in baseball and another good clutch hitter for a defensive first center fielder who hits for a 230 avg in 3 consecutive seasons. Varsho will likely get better at the plate, but Moreno is already one of the better catchers in the league who consistently makes contact and is showing so much potential these playoffs. It’s making the trade look completely lopsided.
Ross Atkins screwed up the Cleveland Indians before he and Shapiro were given the boot. It’s not too surprising to me what’s happening up in Toronto. Sounds like accountability isn’t happening with the Jays. Also playing for Tory Lovello with the D-Backs means a lot too. He seems to bring out the best in every player. A good manager can make a big difference over a long season! I watched quite a few D-Backs games all season . They always hustle -even when they are down. Fun team to follow!
How is Atkins not run out of town already?
I love Varsho's work ethic and defence but as of now it's a bad trade.
I said the varsho trade was awful from the get go varsho is a 4th outfielder on a good team at best
I get why you are doing these negative takes since there are many “Doomers” in the 💬 chat. I respect that,but look forward to seeing future “content” that is geared towards what is next to make our Jays the team we all can love.
I think it may be to soon to tell about Varsho versatility. He has had one year in the AL i think pitching is different between both leagues and some players have to get adjusted i know that Varsho first year was non stellar but hopefully next year he will have it all figured out . I also hated to lose Moreno but we have 2 good catchers already
who r the good catchers your talking about ??
@@hangemhi001 Jansen and Kirk obviously
He's had the the equivalent of 3 seasons under his belt and every year he's in and around a .220 batting average. Great defender but an underwhelming bat. This is who he is, I don't see that changing much in either direction.
Kirk wasn't very good this year. He's got some big holes in his game, mainly throwing out base stealers and being one of the slowest base runners in the league. Every time I saw Kirk ahead of other Jays base runners this year I groaned because I knew he would hold everyone else up behind him and cost them potential runs.@@justinedwards7777
@@craigharrison5406Yeah I see it your way but I think he is due for a breakout season though
I call Varsho the "Inning ender" Turns out he was the season ender as well.
Do a video on the reverse of the ex cubs curse. ( the team with most ex cubs always lose ). The ex blue jays boost. The team with most ex Jays always win.
I'm honestly sick and tired of the discourse. You make deals to attempt to better your team. At its core all of the Blue Jays underachieved. I expect Varsho to be better but as Maple Leafs fan who watched Scott Neidermayer (Hall of Famer Defenceman) leave via trade, Raptors with Tracy McGrady (Hall of Famer) leave via Free Agency. I'm conditioned here. I want Moreno to be successful but this discussion has been nonstop since the deal happened.
Cause it shouldn’t have happened to begin with.
For this trade not to be outrageously one-sided Varsho will need to seriously step up his game. Like hit 3rd between Bo and Vlady. He’ll need to hit for avg, pump 35+ HR and drive in 100 RBI’s
Everyone forgot about the other former Blue Jay killing it with the Diamondbacks. Dave McKay from Vancouver BC!!!
The Jays traded for this season, limped into the playoffs, and got swept in the WC Round.
The Dbacks traded for the future, and are in game 6 of the NLCS.
Maybe the Jays are returning the favour of the Robbie Ray/Travis Bergen trade.
Daulton Varsho needs to have one hell of an offseason
I hope he does 30-60 season incoming
Give me a break you know it’s another Atkins horrible trade , get rid of Atkins and the manager they are both out smarted in trades and our manager gets out coached almost every game
The hitting coaches are worse. They ruin every hitter they come into contact with.
I think the Blue Jays' management is a joke but it is unfair to look at a single year and be upset about how a trade works out. This smacks of piling on a bad management team.
Atkins put away your burner phone.
LOL
Its simple, last year we had the perfect team minus pitching, all we had to do was fix our pitching, then our boys could have grown together and by next year we would be a team to reckon with hell we could have went all the way this year with that same team and our pitching staff this year.
This year we focused too much on analytics and not focused on the actual people. Analytics will only get you so far. The team this year was broken, no one was having fun, no one was playing as a team. This tells me there was bad politics going on with leadership behind the scenes. Im ok with Schneider if he grows a pair and tell Atkins to shut up and let him do his job, if hes not willing to do it then he needs to go.
Man oh man!.. when they traded LOURDES I was mad as hell!.. what a player!!. Great arm, and getting big hits!. I it's very time ago but, they traded RYAN GOINS I lost my mind aswell!.. I like : varsho : but lourdes just a great great player !.. to valuable to loose!!. 😢 . Also, Hernandez' was great to!!. Should of kept them both .. my opinion.
I think people are overreacting just because Moreno is hot in these playoffs he had 7 hr this year and a 283 avg yes good but just mainly contact, Gurriel is older then Varsho, I was mad at the time too but I think Varsho will do better next year he had 20 hr the season prior he had 27 a big drop off but not a massive one I hope we get all the offensive help we can get Springer is getting up there in age and we can’t rely on Varsho
Still a one sided trade no matter how you slice it. The deal should have been Moreno for Varsho + another player from Arizona not plus Gurriel. Moreno was the highest ranked prospect in baseball the year before. A unicorn great defensive catcher that can hit. Those are a big deal and don't come cheap.
Moreno is also four years younger than Varsho. When Varsho was a 23 year old rookie he hit .188.
Aside from hitting .284 this year, Moreno was the top rated defensive catcher in baseball for defensive runs saved and throwing out runners. And he’s been a clutch hitter in the playoffs, with 3 HR, 8 RBIs and a .901 OPS. Meanwhile, Varsho went 0 for 6 with 3 strikeouts.
Moreno was the #1 prospect in all baseball last year, and has lived up to that promise.
There’s no way to sugarcoat it, Atkins got fleeced, it was an awful trade
@@brianpashka9152 yeah but it’s not like Varsho stinks he needs to adapt to Toronto it’s always like this in sports when a guy goes to a new team he doesn’t do good in the first year. At the time Moreno was just a contact hitter and still pretty much is he’s just having a hot playoffs and Gurriel was terrible defensively we got Varsho mainly for his defence. At the time Kirk and Jansen came off really strong seasons I’m sure it was a difficult decision for him
everyone needs to calm down, this was a good trade at the time. if kirk and varsho hit as we expected them to hit, we aren't complaining at all. the whole jays team took a step back offensively this year except for Bo.
Burner phone of one Ross Atkins heard from again.
i to was devastated immediately. i knew it was a mistake, it was a shitty Xmas present,and and everyone i knew thought the same. then theirs the hitting staff i wanted fired last may aint helping anybody.
I immediately hated this trade but was willing to give Varsho the benefit of the doubt. He woefully underperformed for me. It was painful to watch him at the plate. Let's hope he can improve the hitting in 2024. Still Atkins lost this trade like he loses most. A terrible GM who should have been let go.
Been sayin' this for months. Let's face it: the Blew Jays biggest weakness is timely hitting and scoring runs. Lourdes Gurriel Jr. has a lifetime batting average with the sacks full, that is other-worldly. So what does Ross Atkinss do? He gives him away along with our catcher for the future to land yet another weak-hitting outfielder. And let's not forget Atkins didn't even throw his hat in the ring to possibly secure the services of generational talent, Trea Turner, when it became clear he'd be parting ways with the Dodgers. Look at what Turner's doing now with Philly. Fire Ross Atkins and do it now. And if Shapiro won't do it, FIRE HIS ASS TOO.
Dalton Varscho is not bad and Lourdes was not dogwood last year.
Same with Varsho he hasn't been in the AL either before this season
the real problem with Toronto teams is they aren't owned by one owner who wants to win its company owned and only thing that matters is money not winning but money
Its like fans forget moreno wasnt going to play for the jays either way .. they have two high level catchers already ..
Atkins please put your burner phone away, calling Kirk a high level catcher gives you away.
Big loss for Toronto. The Jays lost two very good bats, and adequate defensive players for a good glove and mediocre bat.
To quote Cher… “if I could turn back time”
if the other bats that were supposed to be doing the heavy lifting did it, no one would be talking about this. I say this as a huge Gabby stan. I knew his worth. But Arizona would never have taken Kirk. Varsho is a gold glove defender who takes amazing routes to the ball and was batting well going into the Minnesota games. I'm sorry but the Frank Francisco for Mike Napoli trade was SOOOOOOOOO much worse. So was Yan Gomes for fucking Esmil Rogers.
People need to calm down. Varsho even had 20 HR. Like he provided the value. Gurriel Jr was never going to re sign and chances are hes not on Arizona next year. Moreno is a stud. I know. But Varsho is great, has team control til 27? There's logic as to why it was done.
We can argue all day that they traded the wrong catcher, etc. But again, if the bats did their job, this wouldnt even be talked about. Chapman, Vladdy, hell Springer. Like they all had off years. None worse than Chapman. Guy is a power bat. He sure never seemed to be this yr.
And Jansen and Bo were the ones that had to carry the load with KK and Belt sometimes contributing. And the Davis Schneider run. Either way RISP was awful, thats not on Varsho.
I gotta believe Varsho will be better next season plus love the D
Remember. The Toronto Blue Jays are not meant for the fans. They are merely a division of Rogers Communications. Shapiro and Atkins are good corporate figures who turn a tidy short term profit each year for the benefit of Rogers shareholders. That is what counts now. The shareholders, who own stock in the corporation. If you are a fan of World Series contenders, Toronto is not your town. Be happy that they can back their way into the first round of playoffs under cost controls. Yuck!!!
Honestly we are fucked back catching wise imo. Kirk can’t play every day if Jansen is hurt which is every season.
seems the best move at this point is to send Ross Atkins packing. Don't let him touch anything else. I'm inclined to believe Shapiro should join him. Worst thing the Jays did was let Alex Anthopolous walk. The Jays need to grow up. Appears they were more worried about and involved in making sickeningly happy time commercials than developing the talent. It had to be disruptive to the team as a whole. Vladdy's perceived stardom put his head in the clouds. He needed to focus on baseball, base-running, keeping his mind in the game. The homerun trots around the bases with the childish gestures are worn. He should be embarrassed now, enough. Run the bases with a fist pump, a cheer and clap of hands to the bench ok but the stops and stutter steps and finger to the mouth as a hush to the crowd are ridiculously self-indulgent and embarrassingly worn out. The inability of the Jays to hit with RISP was extremely annoying considering the alleged talent on the team. Did mgmnt over-evaluate the talent? Was the talent mis-managed? Whatever, changes are needed. You can't put sour milk back in the fridge thinking it will be better tomorrow.
comical that the Moreno/Varsho trade is still be justified in a positive light.
Is there a fan base and media core so receptive and accepting of repeated failure and disappointment as exists in Toronto?
Blue Jays, 8 years of failure, shapiro still in charge, and bringing all his yes men back.
Varsho I like a lot but he is an offensive liability which I could take if it was just Gurriel for Varsho but the fact it was the top catching prospect in BASEBALL at the time you gave up aswell to get him to over correct for a mid outfield defense wasn’t worth it. It wasn’t the outfield that blew the wild card game against Seattle. I get analytics are apart of the game but you need to get on base and drive runs home for the analytics to be worth it, Blue Jays have been an anti clutch team for a while now and just because you hired a hitting coach who is friends with Miggy, doesn’t make him Miggy. And I do like Kirk, he’s a short king but the big thing is he doesn’t run, doesn’t hustle to the plate and hasn’t gotten that under control. And between him and Vladdy he has grounded into too many double plays that his one year of offensive production looks like a complete fluke. It is on the coaches to get them into better habits but it’s also on the players to find the game that works for them. Management has been such an issue and again, Shapiro and Atkins are bad for baseball haven’t won anything and just walked dick first into a an organization that will pay them more and has a bigger payroll than Cleveland. Toronto’s owner have money and they are wasting it by having those two clowns run the show.
Could be worse. At least they haven’t hired Gabe Kapler or Kim Ng.
the offense is god awful and it starts with their approach at the plate. sometimes theyre committing to the whole hit for contact bit, but then i will watch the next 6 batters in a row all trying to hit a ball out of the park. varsho is just one of several hitters in this lineup that underperformed. that underperformance is why we are even bringing up the move that got rid of moreno and gurriel. this team cannot enter next year without addressing the offense. you just cannot bank on guys to bounceback or play out of their minds. make moves, make signings, whatever needs to be done so we dont feel sorry as hell for every pitcher that has a great game with no run support.
Make no mistake, this is the worst trade ever by the Blue Jays, ever! I call it "The Trade of Infamy". Any other place it would have cost the GM's job. Atkins worst GM ever, he's duked by every GM he does deals with 😡🤬
Hated the trade from the very beginning
Again Ross Atkins was bewitched by the Stat Gods. Both Varsho and Keirmier were big time victims of "The Shift" which was eliminated for the 2023 season. Theoretically both should have seen their BA's improve by 20 or 30 points over 2022. Didn't happen, in fact Varsho declined BIG TIME. My big question at the time was why the F#CK wasn't it Kirk instead of Gabby M? Still an overpayment even if Varsho hit like he did in 2022. Dumb move Ross!
Atkins better have security around him because people are gonna wanna go after him for the stupid trade. In other words. He should probably leave town like seriously
Remember when Tony Bass apologized like a puscy. Blue Gays remember.
What if they would have won?Toronto,just shut up for more than 5 minutes.Nothing is ever good enough
for you .''Take off EH''.
I'm fine with the trade. Varsho had 27 HR 70+ RBI. You don't know what a prospect will do, most don't pan out
Hitting coach ????
I don't know why people are continuing to rehash this over and over and over. Hindsight is 20/20. At the time, fans were screaming for a left-handed bat and better defence. The Jays made a trade for someone who seemed to check both boxes. Gurriel was the obvious choice to trade given he was in his last season before free agency, but the D-Backs weren't open to a straight one-for-one trade. Jays had an extra catcher. They weren't going to trade Jansen and Kirk was just off an All Star season so they weren't going to trade him. Moreno was a great prospect with limited MLB experience. He was the obvious choice. It hurt to let him go but prospects are jusst that ... prospects. Front office didn't have a crystal ball telling them what a success Moreno would definitely be. Looking at it now, yeah, it would be nice if we hadn't lt him go, but at the time, it was a decent looking trade. Sure it's disappointing, given the poor performance of Kirk this year vs the great season Moreno is having, but fans need to get over it. To quote Rafiki, "It doesn't matter. It's in the past." Fans need to move on. Who knows. Varsho may come back next year and have an amazing season, both offensively and defensively. I'm happy for Moreno, because if we'd kept him, he probably wouldn't have had the chance to play the way he has in Arizona.
You sir, are a casual fan. Moreno wasn't 'just a prospect' - he was as much a blue chipper as Vlad and Bo, at a premium position, and was MLB ready. You think a team can succeed by addressing an area of need each offseason by trading their Vlad or Bo? Maybe we could have called up Baltimore at the time and offered them Guriel for Gunner Henderson who was, you know, 'just a prospect'.
First of all, I'm not a "sir" and I'm not a casual fan. I've been a fan of this team for at least 40 years! Moreno was a prospect. He wasn't on the team roster. Was he a "blue chipper"? Yes, he was a very good prospect, but a prospect nonetheless, as were Bo and Vladdy when they were still in AAA. At the time of the trade, we had 2 catchers already. There was no room for Moreno on the team. Do I wish we'd kept him? Hell yeah. I wish we'd kept Lourdes too since he is my favourite player (note my profile pic). But the trade was done and it's time to move on.
Moreno was the primary target in the trade. Lourdes was only added in order to outbid the Yankees.
@@kflowersmith Moreno was signed as an infielder, and had been used in the outfield and infield at the MLB level. The team could've still got him into the lineup, due to his versatility. Kirk or Jansen were bound to get injured at some point during the season.
@@kflowersmith I apologize for assuming gender. I stand by the rest.
hum why did the dbacks want monero instead of kirk ????????????????????????????????
Good idea to keep Kirk over Merano awesome this team is a bottom feeder and will be for a long long time it will look good on them Vlad your house has major leaks
Terrible trade.
It was a bad trade when it happened how move a catch with a Canon arm great defense...... stupid
Let's have this conversation in 2 yrs when talking about that deal . Your embarassing yourselves by acting like that. Wait..be patient...
Varsho and Kirk have to go…
Why is Varsho not in the minors?
😬
I like Varsho but but we gave up too much to get him. Gurriel jr for Varsho would've been a better swap. I don't understand why Atkins hasn't been fired by Shapiro. IMO, they both need to go.
Moreno was the primary target in the trade. Lourdes was only added in order to outbid the Yankees.
The Lourdes contract was worth considerably less than the Varsho contract, and is about to become completely worthless.
F***ing stupid trade not varsho fault Roger's has billions needs to fix immediately
I know you gotta make content but I think our community should tone it down. Toronto sports is always reactionary.
It’s still too soon to write off Varsho. He’s not the one to blame and neither is the trade. Look to our “stars” first
Blew Jays are playing the fans just like the Maple Losers. Keep the team free of winners, push merch and jam the seat prices.
I'm not supporting BJ's until 2025, if they start winning. If not, 2026.
It's Moreno's first season he could flope like Vladdy did, who knows. Jays fans just need to move on and get over it. The stats the two put up this year were not guaranteed if they stayed with the Jays.
Wrong he spent more than 50% of last year (2022) with the Jay's. They liked him last year so much that they carried 3 catchers for big parts of last season.
And I hate 2 for 1 trades , Gurriel was enough for Varsho.
@@nancymilawski1048 The Lourdes contract was worth considerably less than the Varsho contract, and is about to become completely worthless. He was only added to the trade in order to outbid the Yankees.
Who spent more than 50% of 2022 with the Blue Jays? I know you're not talking about Moreno there, since he was only with them for 25 games. He didn't even get the 130 at-bats in 2022 required to lose rookie status, so he's eligible for Rookie of the Year votes in 2023.
Varsho provided the defense they expected, the pitchers would not have had sub 4 ERA, sorry Lourdes was a handicap in the field.