The Char B1 Ter could probably have gone on the list, given that, while certainly real, and pre-production models were completed(modified from B1 hulls), the actual production model, which had a fair few differences from the pre-production model, never saw total completion, only partial.
To clarify about the Ho-Ri, the mess came out of a miscommunication between Gaijin and their Japanese researchers with Mai being one in particular. The specifications for the Ho-Ri were initially 75 mm on the front in total which is where they got the numbers for the Ho-Ri Prototype. That is the one directly based off of the mockup with the only difference being the driver's hatch that Gaijin added onto it. The Ho-Ri Production mixed up a engine proposal, the specifications of the Ho-Ri II, and the planned performance of the gun in what you can truly call a fake tank. The 1,100 hp engine was proposed and drafted but never completed or actually considered to be put into it, the Ho-Ri II specifications is where the 125 mm UFP come from, and the gun uses the planned performance of the experimental 10 cm tank gun (long) which was to penetrate 200 mm at 1,000 m/s. In reality, it only reached a velocity of 900 m/s in firing tests. The only part I don't get where they got the information from is the thickness of the casemates. In the case of both the Ho-Ri I and II, the casemates would've just been 75 mm thick so the Prototype's being 120 - 150 mm and the Production's being 200 - 225 mm is weird. Gaijin was told that information and by the time their researchers corrected them, it seems like the modeling had already been completed and with few Japanese tanks in that BR (on introduction) they just added it anyway. Iirc this also predated the statement they made about not adding in any more mockup or planned vehicles, which is how the J6K1 got pass because it was added just before that. Now the Ho-Ri Prototype does have some model differences, but it matches everything that was planned for it. The Ho-Ri Production is just a outright fake and the only reason it hasn't been removed is because Gaijin hasn't found anything that could replace it yet. The only possible candidates atm is the 105 mm GSR (TD based off of the B78 IFV) if more information is found on the gun or the Type 99 HSP. Edit: Also since this is commonly brought up; before anyone gets confused, the Ho-Ri I and the slanted mockup aren't the same. The Ho-Ri I refers specifically to the flat-front design with the fighting compartment in the rear. While the Ho-Ri mockup does situate the fighting compartment in the rear, that isn't the distinction that makes the I the I. It's the combination of both, and the Ho-Ri mockup, from what researchers can tell, predated the I and II designs, as it was just a demonstration of what the tank destroyer could look like before they became more realistic (Japan couldn't produce the large slanted UFP) with the Ho-Ri I design and then made a full blueprint for the Ho-Ri II design which is most likely the one that was being produced by the end of the war.
In the future I wouldn't mind you covering the M4-85 as seen in World of Tanks. It's implemented with a T-34 mod 1942 turret with the addition of a T-34-85 cupola... which actually makes the turret a mod 1943 but they call it the mod 1942 ingame... Now the M4-85 was an actually proposed design from the same guy who proposed the dual-gunned IS-2, but the proposal was to use the T34-85's turret on the 75mm Shermans they had. Soon after he had this idea though, the Russian began to recieve 76mm Shermans and the idea was dropped. www.reddit.com/r/CursedTanks/comments/ruo21p/m4_3485/ I ripped the models of the M4A2 and T-34-85 from WoT and mated the Sherman body and T-34-85 turret in blender to see what it would look like. I double checked the turret ring diameters and the -85's turret had a smaller ring then the Sherman so I image some form of modification could make the two mate. Note: the M4A2 Sherman I ripped incidentally had torsion bar suspension... so the model I made is erred in that regard. I wasn't paying attention and wound up using the cancelled M4A2E4 hull instead of a production models.
Well for one you have proofs that it never completed, for other you have paper that says it was completed, but without photo) Who knows, maybe they remove ostwind 2 in future too)
There is literally a tank in WoT made from the proposal from a Russian soldier, called the LTP; Light Tank Proposal. The soldier didn't give it a name. But despite it being drawn up from a common soldier, the drawings and design of the tank was quite good.
Panther2 had initially turret like Panther 1 with 75mmL70 gun. Panther 1F and later1 G got Schmalturm 1, 75mm L70 again. Also Schmalturm 2 for 88mmL71 created by Daimler Benz for PantherF. It in theory wasn't impossible to mounted on Panther2 chassis. Panther2 can found production factory, just one instead of Jagdtiger H, because roadwheels and suspension were at the same . Panther2 was 18 tons lighter and clearly more reliable than Jagdtiger H. E100 was redesigned for only 128mmL55 gun. Not 150mmL37. Maus planned with tube 150mm , and Tiger-Maus. Tiger-Maus cancelled and E100 approved with low priority , and 128mmL55 main weapon + 75mmL24 seccond weapon( or 75mmL3 Maus1 seccond weapon ). Tiger2 105mmL68 was usually replaced by E75 105mmL68( 105mmL52 ) but E75 wasn't completed before war ended. In theory bigger tank than King Tiger, E75 Tiger3 can hold turret with 105mm guns L52 and L68.
war thunder stopped caring about being historically accurate years ago. it happened when the tiger IIs started being forced to fight ATGM missiles and heat FS and cold war shit etc etc
It's also worth to mentioned about Shimakaze too tho. Yes, the ship is not fake and very real but what I'm talking about is when she was first announced with 2nd turret replacing with 25mm guns. Although she was fixed after people complain, I still confused how gaijin messed that up.
It's funny you mention this and how everyone lost the plot due to it in game having the aft superfiring turret missing. Yet there are many vessels that are a hodgepodge of refits & or are missing armaments or are completely fake vessels ntm never finished too, One example is the Ocean Defence Ship Shounan which is missing a cannon on the aft turret yet crickets... But that's how it's where everyone only goes loony when it's something more known an not obscure. There are several lists of hodgepodge vessels or are missing weapons or fakes iirc an there's a Cruiser & a Destroyer that were never finished only being 40-60% built.
T95/T28 situation is easy. They need different designation in tree and technical malfunctions was never modelled in wt. Imagine kv2 that cannot shoot on slopes
The T95 and T28 were the same tank, it just went through different name changes and it did function.. But it was never "made" to run with the outer two treads off that was just for transport on trains since it was so wide. It just never made it out of testing since the war ended and we didn't need it for assaulting heavily fortified positions (It was never intended for use against tanks)
war thunder isn't the only game with the "fake" panther II though world of tanks does have a more realistic version, the regular panther can be mounted with the schmalturm turret there also exists a premium tank labelled "Panther 8.8", which is essentially war thunder's panther II
I'm more forgiving of WoT having the fake or """"""experimental""""" vehicles, since they're much less realistic and arcade-y. Whereas WT tries to treat themselves as much more serious and historical. Heck for *years* they made fun of the ahistoric tanks in WoT
The E100 I think was War Thunder having to compromise by using a turret that actually existed to finish a historical tank that was unfinished. If anything the E100 in both games has a fair degree of historical accuracy its just that they differ in how their historical accuracy is represented.
The weight of the Maus turret would have made it unusable for the E-100 so it's not historical at all to use it. They should have given it the more accurate turret instead since the addition to the game is already fantasy.
@@ConeOfArc Or would it. Was the original E-100 turret lighter, even with its 150mm gun? I am not that sure. The only way to make it lighter is less armor, and smaller, which would mean smaller guns. So, in my opinion, even if gaijin were to add its original turret... It would not make much of a difference. I would even rather have the kitbashed E-100 we have ingame, at least made with existing components.
@@swisstraeng the E-100 compared to the maus had reduced armor thickness on all sides of the hull, presumably this would also mean armor would be reduced on the turret.
@@swisstraeng the original turret was too heavy when the E-100 (Tiger-Maus at the time) was being proposed. The design was changed significantly from a more Maus-like vehicle to what we know today and with it the turret needed a redesign. Like I say in the video no turret was ever selected in the end and the hull was designed separately as with most tank projects
And now the Coelian is meta for 6.3 Squadron Battles. Find me another 6.3 or lower AA that is effective and closed top to survive strafing from planes. There's none.
What bugged me most of how the Ostwind II was depicted in the game was the way the second 37mm gun was plopped next to the other. The 37mm Flak43 gun was fitted to a large bearing into the mount, do that the loading trays were being fed through the bearing. Gaijin just plopped the second gun on the far side of the first, basically doubling the load on the bearing in a asymetrical way. I can't imagine that would hold for long. Also, with the feeding of the second gun being mirrored, there is no space for the empty clips to go, and I highly suspect the empty casings would get jammed between the guns, causing malfunctions, aswell.
I want them to add some of the on paper only/wooden model us tanks M22 with a roof mounted .50 T25 with stabilizer ( because one version did have it and they shouldn't have removed it) And some flamethrowers could be fun like the zippo. They could be used to remove bushes from an area, burn through tanks extinguishers, instakill open tops and trucks. They could even add a burning effect to buildings so you can set a city on fire and fill the skies with smoke making it harder for cas and snipers to do anything.
As if. America never gets to have anything halfway useful. All of our tanks that aren't completely outmatched are either moved up in br until they are useless or are given such a high repair cost or in the case of the super Pershing both. Oh and be moved down a tier because America can't have a useful grinding tank like the m24 because fuck us right.
The armor was planned but never fitted if I remember right. So although that tank is semi fake ingame it's not far from the original plan for the vehicle
I’m sure someone already mentioned it but the M6A2E1 when it was added it had a large UFP added which brought the frontal armor to 200mm. Although this plate existed on a plan it was for an old modification of the M6 with the 76mm essentially mixing two different projects together. Gaijin stated it was to make the vehicle like as if it had entered service. In my opinion it was to make the vehicle less likely to be useless in many people’s eyes. Since it still leaves two 100mm weakspots on either side I don’t tend to fight with the hull facing forward since the M6A2 has the blessed full reverse speed and a massive engine and bouncy engine deck. I’d prefer it if the plate was gone myself cause then it might afford a lower br
The gun is what puts it that br. And the turret is almost impenetrable from the front. Hulled down M6A2E1 is op even for its current BR. You can't put a cannon that powerful any lower.
@@smolwavingsnail9028 I mean other than HE it’s got almost the same pen as the ASU-85. OP is seriously stretching it. Underplayed is more accurate. A of tanks can actually easily pen the turret if they just aimed for the big flat bit above the mantlet. And yeah the way to get hull down anywhere is just reverse the hull and face the engine deck at them. It’ll absorb almost every shell due to basically 250mm of engine. Only APDS & Soviet 122mm can pen through. Also gives 100% protection against 155mm HE shots to everything except top of turret shots
@@legozeke246 an ASU 85 is a TD that can be penned by most rank 2 vehicles. you wanna talk about stretches that comparison takes the cake. the M6A2E1 can sit behind a rock with it's cannon that one shots practically every time it pens with nothing but it's it's extremely strong and trolly turret sticking out. that small flat area you mentioned is extremely hard to hit and because of volumetric bounces most of the time. good positioning negates the front plate anyway. this vehicle would be monstrously over powered at any lower off a br even without the front plate and implying otherwise when you go on to say how driving it backwards make you practically invulnerable is dumb. you literally just proved my point. removing the front plat doesn't make it any less of a power house to anyone that knows how to play it. so yes it is overpowered and yes it would most certainly be at a lower br. next time you try prove someone wrong it might help if you don't inadvertently prove them right in the process
@@smolwavingsnail9028 well it’s good but it also comes into what you qualify as OP. It’s gun does fulfill two three I believe needed for a perfect gun. Pen, Post-Pen and reload. Reload being the item lacking. And yes the turret can be bouncy but that’s not in un heard of for that BR. You consider the vehicle vastly OP for 6.7. I think it’s good to great for 6.7 but not OP or requiring of a higher br. When you get down to it you essentially have T29 with a worse turret, worse reload, no side armor, a frontal plate that will only stop idiots with over tiered guns who don’t know where to aim and requires either playing hull down to take full advantage or playing in reverse which is considered unorthodox. Am I saying all this to say the M6A2 is bad or that I dislike it? No not all. I’m saying if the vehicle was any higher in it would get outclassed by it’s 7.0 counterparts. In my opinion it’s 6.7s are equal to it The T26E1-1 gives you a better top speed reload, side armor and similar gun The T26E5 is gives you a great reload and amazing armor (mostly) The M26E1 is a very quick M26 with a fantastic reload to pen ratio almost on par with the Pak43 Then there’s the T30, T34 and T29. All of which I’d say are better vehicles. I’m careful to not call vehicles OP when in fact a lot of vehicles are good and can be great when used to their advantages. If Gaijin regarded every vehicle as being “OP” when played to their advantage then we’d get a situation with T32s only 2-3 brs up and the one thing the vehicle does best is highly inconsistent and not worth bringing over more consistent vehicles of the same BR
@@legozeke246 you proved that it would be op if it was moved down. I agree it's ok where it is atm. Even though before my account got locked i did think it was fairly over powered. And im not even the greatest player. And yeh the reload was a bit horrendous. And the T26E5 is basically to a tiger 2 what a jumbo is to to a tiger one. the super pershing sucks imo and is over tiered now especially comapred to the T26E5 the extra plates do nothing because it's still not modelled correctly, gaijin doesn't understand how much velocity a shell loses when it hits something. So a tiger 2 can still pen it through both armour plates and the upper glacis which is total bullshit.
Ho229 too, actually.. not entirely fake, but combination of several prototypes J6K is also borderline fake as it was just a mockup irl, with entirely fake armament setup.
@@RFi731 Actually the Horton 229 V3 has one built example which currently resides in the Smithsonian. If it were finished, it would have had even more features not shown in game.
Good of you to make this video. I am old enough to remember when WoT put a historical mode in the game and weirdly, not enough people wanted to play it. Make of that what you will.
because the historical mode was unbalanced, that's why nobody wanted to play it. Plus, only a small selection of tanks and maps made this game mode quite boring quite quickly.
I'm very surprised hearing some people both mind fake tanks in games and that people have the audacity to get angry when you call their favorite game innacurate. I've always considered games like WT and WoT as games first, so I've always thought there was innacurate stuff added to streamline gameplay and progression.
One of the interesting things on WOTs side of fiction is the the E-75 was supposed to use the 10,5 cm I believe in lieu of the Tiger II and trying to mount a 10,5 cm on it. However the E-75 allows for the mounting of the 12,8 cm which is incorrect in the context of making the E-75 real or at the very least realistic to some degree
The E-50 and E-75 never got past the hull designs with no turrets being designed or selected. The ones you see on models or ingame are usually based on the theoretical turret drawings made by historians.
I believe the E-75's turret in WoT is actually just the larger turret that was proposed for the Tiger II to fit the 105mm. The E-50's is a fake modified Schmalturm.
@@ConeOfArc yeah I’m saying along the lines of proposed ideas because the E series was also meant to improve upon the previous tanks (of course) as well as be cost effective but of course making a cost effective and better vehicle when you’re at the end of a war and losing isn’t gunna work all that well
Built a 1:35 scale plastic model of the E-50 & E-75 by Trumpeter. They look neat and all, especially with the longer 88mm & 105mm guns but really cannot imagine these vehicles in actual combat.
Early WT player and german main (panthers have my heart). Germany before the cold War tanks didn't have much past 6.7 and not a lot of juicy options for premium tanks. SLA, panther 2, and Tiger 2 105, flakpanzer 341, all made up for this gap between them, America, and Russsia. While I like the realistic take on WT. It's a game. I'm fine with bending realism for balancing (especially on a game as grindy). They already do it so adding paper tanks I'm not against. Heck we got things from the 60s fighting tiger 2s.
@@TheTankCrew the germans have a lot of overpowered vehicles, that are low in BR because they're driven by german mains with a collective IQ of 38. Half of you are brazilian wehraboos who still dont know where to shoot the jumbo after playing the tiger I for 200 games.
@@SteveIsHavingMC not really trying to be one of those guys but being uptiered and being dead weight isn't much fun. The long 88 is mediocre before being uptiered and the 105 isn't much better. Rather not spend 15 minutes trying to avoid being seen to fish for 1-3 sideshots in a heavy tank that has slow acceleration and mobility. It's not the worst till you play long range maps uptiered. You can't even run before someone gets their free SL.
The biggest problem with fake/experimental/prototype vehicles in War Thunder is that they often have some kind of ability that only worked on paper. Like a supercharged engine BUT it would always catch on fire during testing. Like a giant gun BUT it was too big for the turret to operate. Like an fast autoloader BUT in reality it would break down after cycling just a few rounds. When these vehicles are put in game they totally fuck up the flow and logic.
While its nice to have a reminder that WT isnt a simulator we have to consider that a lot of these legacy vehicles are gaijin trying to fill out the then top tier of 6.7 line ups for germany and as such they were scrounging around a fair bit. Still coellian back in tech tree when
Contrary to popular belief the Ostwind did exist and was produced in large numbers. However it was kept on the alien motherships that were working with the Nazis to bring about the second Thanksgiving. Credit - History Channel.
Some years ago, the war thunder twitter said that the ingame panther 2 was not a paper tank because all of its components had been made. Yeah, they went that far to NOT admit that they had fake tanks in game
To be honest I like those fake tank that have been taken away from the tech tree just because it's fake doesn't mean other players shouldn't be able to see them or use them the game is already highly unrealistic so with certain shooting mechanics and other things
I'm on your side here. I quite enjoy the more crazy prototypical AFV stuff and find it annoying when Gaijin picks and chooses rather than keep all guesstimate tanks. I especially found it humorous when, maybe due to the language barrier, they added the South African 'Concept 3' to the game with that name, a clear placeholder for something never built.
As a Japanese main, honestly I feel like the Ho-Ri Production should be replaced while the prototype can stay as a premium. The JSDF already have a successor to the prior vehicle being the Type 75 SPH that could replace the Ho-Ri, the Type 99 SPH. Plus it’s weird that a random Imperial era vehicle comes in the middle of the base tech tree in a tier with only other JSDF vehicles. Just feels like a bit of a clash of time periods.
man, its so hard to dream of Gaijin going to the path of "we are now allowing paper tanks to be in game" because we all know they'll just break the game more
@@AlanLin1995I mean, he said it would break the game "more", which implies the game is already broken to some degree. "He's illiterate" "He'll adapt" "He'll adapt to reading?" lmao
Wargaming: Cuz I can make gods kill themselves! It is a game after all 😎 Gaijin (Daebom): WARGAMING-CHAN!!! >///< Gaijin became a human form snail girl. Thats how fallen Gaijin really went lol
@@person0-016 that game is known for breaking gaming PCs just randomly happened to few people and happened to me For me I was just playing and then my computer crashed I tried to turn it back on and nothing would happen Next day it turned on but my graphics card is broken and the computer is super slow This was not even a bad pc my pc ran battlefield 5 on high at 240fps and it ran total tank simulator perfectly as well before the crash When I looked back at the game I found a steam guide where people were saying exactly the same thing that happens with my pc where it just crashed and broke the next day
I hate the fact that most of the "fake," vehicles go to the larger trees/sections of trees, whereas it'd be much more sensible to allow paper designs that aren't ridiculous for the small trees. The P43 for Italy that has slightly improved armor and can mount the 75/34, 105/25, or likely the 75/46 guns. Some people want to feel elitist about it over WoT (which is ironic, considering this video) but it would certainly help WT Nations that have large empty spots in their tree or large amounts of lend-lease materiel.
for the e1OO, the reason its so commonly known for a maus turret is because thats what they used to test it, they made a maus turret to see if the e1OO could hold it, and thats what the soviets found
Not sure where you heard that but that is not true. The Soviets found a Maus turret on a blown up Maus hull and put it onto a complete hull which only had a simulated turret weight
I mean, I think that as long as they label not perfectly accurate tanks as "what if tanks" it wouldn't be bad, I think that they internally don't mind doing that but they fear that if they come up clean by saying "we made this tank based on experimental trials and how they would have been deployed if they fixed the prototypes issues" would make them seem less "realistic" PR-wise
@@ceoofdazn7615 hello, imma yell at you for a valid reason. Okay. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT WHERE I CAN PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE FOR STEALING MY KILL. Thank you that’s the only valid reason I have of yelling at you
I always hated that they removed those vehicles. It never made sense to me. Especially when there are other fictional vehicles still available and one of the replacements being even more fictional. They should have left them, alone for the reason that they add more usefull/playable/enjoyable content to the game.
The SIDAM mistral isn't exactly ''fake''. The thing you see in the photo is a real picture, and yes although its only seen with one, that doesn't mean it couldn't mount 2 or that it never did mount 2. Many sources state it could mount 2 so its not exactly on the same level of other vehicles on the list. As far as im aware and from the research i did myself, it only mounted 1 to save time as this vehicle likely had a rushed development cycle. According to an OTO Melara employee i had spoken to it was mainly created to upgrade the ones in service at the time, and also participated in some sort of SPAA competition in the USA. But TLDR is this : real vehicle, could mount 2 mistral launchers therefore its fine by Gaijin and Warthunder standards.
I was mainly pointing out that the real thing was never built outside of mockup ones and that the photos we do have show it lacking the second launcher.
can you make a video about the fake tas tank variants? it is interesting to see that a random hungarian tank that never was completed has like 4 fake variants, one turreted and three tank destroyers. this all is thanks to one guy called pál korbuly. these are the fake hungarians: 1. tas tank with a large angular turret and maybe an 88mm gun. i believe it is referred to as 44m tas (k) or just tas with korbuly turret 2. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate and a jagdpanther-like cut out area where the gun sits. this one has a horisontally placed cylindrical gun mantlet. this gun mantlet probably could have allowed the gun to move side-to-side, but it definetely could allow some gun depression 3. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate with a sphere-like gun cover which didnt allow the gun to move side-to-side or to depress. this one is most likely a misinterpretation of the side profile of the tas tank destroyer korbuly originally made up 4. tas tank destroyer with a larger casemate and a spherical gun mantlet that is somewhere between the one the semovente 105 and the su-122-54 had i hope these fakes will eventually get into one of the fake tank friday episodes
Tiger II isn't an upgrade, thats the top upgrade. The E-Series is what makes you believe Germany would've have parts shared with many classes of armored weapons. E75 would've made that 10.5cm real
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the Panther II is most likely Gaijin's attempt to create an E-50 with "built" components mashed together, as back when it was added Germany lacked high tier tanks. It doesn't explain everything, but the E-50 if it were a completed design would help explain why it has an upgraded engine and would be a more reasonable explanation for why it has an 88mm Schmalturm. We might never know what the E-50 would've been like if it were finished and produced, but I think it is reasonable to say it most likely would've received the 88mm Schmalturm if that were completed and most of the other upgrades the Panther II has in game. The Panther II as it's represented in War Thunder is still a fake tank, but it helps to think of it more like a "finished" E-50 in disguise.
As a Japan main and someone who has spaded the Ho-Ri Production, the Ho-ri does fill in a hole in the tree, and while I think it might be fine if it was removed, it would make Japan’s already small lineups get smaller. If they ever do remove the Ho-Ri’s, I just hope something is put in its place as to compensate for it.
The Japanese got a replacement for the Type 75 SPH, which is the tank destroyer researched above the Ho-Ri. The Type 99. That could be a good replacement.
I think the Ostwind 2 turret being different from the one that’s described is solely for game balance. If it had a much larger gap like the documents say, then the turret crew would easily be machine-gunned to death from the front, which is already simple to do if you aim carefully. Open-tops already have it hard with artillery, aircraft, and being machine-gunned through turret gaps.
I mean, back in the day warthunder was praised for only having real, working, enlisted as being used at least one in a battle vehicles in comparison to world of tanks and its blueprint roaster.
Hey cone I actually read a book in Sierra Vista AZ that talked in depth about the development and proposed deployment of the SLA.16 diesel engine. It was put into a tiger hull (can't say exactly which model) however it suffered issues of overheating and the project ended up having to be abandoned
It wasent a problem with overheating it was a problem that the king tigers needed to be modded to accept the SLA.16 Diesel Engine it was Air cooled not water cooled as well as a modular engine able to bring heavy vehicles like the jagdtiger and Kingtiger up to better speeds
The E100 point doesn’t feel totally fair. If all they have for info is the mock-up drawings and those have a Maus style turret as a placeholder because they never picked a turret for it then surely that’s as valid as the WoT turret because there’s no way to truly tell what they would’ve done with the project had it been pursued further.
I will never accept the demand for "documentation" on later war German tanks, the whole country was bombed and *paper* likes to burn. It's pure madness to demand 8K full HD 20 000 page documentation of the track links.
I'm a model builder, not a gamer. So maybe I can provide a slightly different perspective, here . . . . These proposed / hypothetical designs are popular among Armor Modelers; especially the German "Paper Panzers." This trend began around the early 1990's with 1/35th scale kits of the E-100 and Maus tanks being issued. These were quickly followed-up by other proposed designs, such as the Flakpanzer V Coelian and Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz. I think these tanks became popular because they were 'different,' and modelers were looking for a 'break' from yet another Panzer IV or Stug III project. But until fairly recently, most model kit manufacturers would have preferred to have 10% of the Panzer IV market than 100% of the Maus market. This changed when it became apparent that kits of these "Paper Panzers" or "one-off" field modifications would sell, and we've seen a fantastic array of such kits at local hobby shops over the past two decades. (There is even a kit available of a proposed Soviet ball-shaped "Sharotank" available!) But we modelers only have to build and display our kits. Moreover, we're quick to point out that these are models of tanks that were NOT actually used in wartime, and in contests, they're judged on workmanship; not whether or not they were 'real.' More to the point, we model builders don't have to determine how they could be used in a game.' Now if only a kit manufacturer would come out with a 1/35th (or even 1/72nd) scale kit of the infamous KV-VI Behemoth . . . .
Gaijin knew entirely that the panther 2 and tiger 2 105 were fake when they put them on the game, they created their own version of those tanks to give germany an equal tank to face latest urss tanks on that time 2015-2016
The E-100 Was a super heavy tank project like the Maus, we can't say it's fake BECAUSE NO TURRET WAS EVER DESIGNED FOR THE E-100. Just like the Ratte, they are all portraits of what the people think it was like.
@@Kalashnikov413 Still, no turret was ever designed, and the Chasis are very similar to the Maus, because the papers we're eathier burnt in 1945 By the hig Nazi command, or conficated by the Soviets.
i dont think the t28 suspension would really care tbh its the fact its ground pressure is so terrible that if parked even on hard soil it would sink within hours and if it was remotely soft ground it would sink down to the hull in no time and literally dig itself down if it tried to turn at all the suspension itself was robust enough to carry the tank easily its the ground beneath it that you got to worry about even destroying asphalt if you turn
Hans: "Why are we making all these weird tank prototypes instead of building more StuGs?" Franz: "So that our great-grandchildren will have something to spend their money on Hans, you Dummkopf!"
E100 in potato game originally use mouse turret as well. That was change in few weeks before release of tree. It was few videos and trailer featuring that variant.
There are two "real" possibilities of Ostwind II: 1)either it was made with existing vertical arrangement Flak 43 gun as they needed to finish prototype for report, but no mention of side arrangement being produced and delivered specifically for this vehicle exists; 2)or they've used naval M42/44 mounts and had to enlarge opening as you mention. Why does Gaijin do it differently? Effectiveness against ground vehicles! The BR of SPAAG in this game relies heavily on how "universal" it is. That's why Otomagic is king and why near useless against planes due to lack of modification and VT fuzes ZSU-57-2 has high BR. Option №1 gives gun vertical spread and exposes loader to MG fire due to height, option №2 leaves it with exposed to MGs front, but allows it to put two shells side by side. The iteration ingame relies solely on need to be effective against ground vehicles.
So Gaijin would replace a fake tank with a tank of which only one was produced, but would not add a Hungarian tank tree (like the South African), a nation which was the 3rd largest tank producer Axis power in Europe in WW2.
I used to play World of Tanks so long ago, that there really weren't any fake tanks in the game. There were definitely a few prototype tanks that actually were produced... but not the absolute ridiculous, 100% fantasy nonsense that sin WOT now. This was a long, long time ago though. 9+ years.
I think a cool fake tank you could take a look at would be the Chimeria tank destroyer in Wargame, a Canadian TD that seems to be based of the idea of the "Jagdchieftan" or the Chieftan Casemate Test Rig (CTR)
I believe there is nothing wrong with "Fake" Tanks as long as they make some sort of sense and could in theory work for the time period they are designed for.
You can certainly forgive WoT for being more liberal with the amount of fakes/paper tanks. The game is effectively now an Alt-History game, with the amount of interconnected lore from the special game modes, the different holiday events, snippets from some of the vanity items and battle pass.
The Panther had some very worthwhile editions coming to it before the was ended, gun stabilization and a auto loader coming to mind. Neither have been put on WOTs Panthers.
Source for the Auto-loading Panther? IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. Would like to see the FV 4202 with the Auto-loading 183mm lol, but auto panther would be fun.
Dude, the Russians have loads of large caliber autoloaders ! Lol😆 Where did you get that idea from?😛 My source? You don't realize how rude this question is and that I had to dig this source up do you because you don't feel like doing some research on your own on things like this obviously. Panther Variants 1942/1945 Hillary Doyle/Tom Jentz/Mike Badrocke Page 10 A Mehrladeeinrichtung (automatic loader)7.5cm KW.K 42/2(L70) to be completed in April 1945 Stabilized Gunsights April 1945 I guess WOTs never told you this..😁
@@brealistic3542 Dude no need to be so rude. The Russians did have large calibre autoloaders but they were on cold war tanks like the T-62 and T-72. For world war 2 it was a nightmare to get 3" to 5" autoloaders working on ships never mind tanks. Also the earliest reference for a Mehrladeeinchtung equipped tank is the Spc 1 and Ru 251 prototypes from the 60s. Secondly your source says nothing about the panthers gun at all. Panther Variants 1942-45 page 10 is about Panther Aust F and the design conception of the Schmalturm turret in late 1944. There is no reference in this book about a autoloading 7.5cm gun for the Panther bro
@@dessertfoxo4096 You're changing the goal posts now and also projecting. What you said is patently false since on page 10 very specifically they cite both projects for the Panther being a priority and under development with a date that shows they were about to be finished. "IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. " Your words.. Not specific to ww2 whatsoever and wrong since the panther was about to have one as a top priority and a stabilized rangefinder! The person who obviously is the rude one is YOU and also HAS NOT READ THIS BOOK! I gave you the exact source and page and you deny it all. Saying it is I that haven't read this book. I OWN IT ! You obviously don't or can't read... When someone says.."give me the source" or "Source please?" it is invariably a person who knows little to nothing on the subject and is suffering a massive dose of the Dunning/Krugger effect. They expect you do not have a source to give them on hand. Well, I do. No matter what evidence you give them they will deny it and excuse YOU of not reading the material. I don't know why I even bothered because you're obviously a Butthurt child that refuses to be corrected. Buddy, I have a BA in History with a very high grade in MA material in it also. I know Wence I am talking about here. You obviously do not. If you can show me material that contradicts the info I just gave you then do it. Not just your personal conjectures that mean nothing as you have been doing all along. Now go back to getting your info from WOTs because it's so accurate. :)
The ostwind two will always piss me off. Love how they got rid of the cowellian which had a complete wooden model made and plans for the real one because it “never existed” then they had this piece of crap and it literally never existed. Also idk why they removed “paper” tanks anyway. I feel like if there was comprehensive and plans,and or a mock up built or should be able to be added. Now obv I don’t want to see total fake tanks like wot does but I feel like the panther 2 and cowellian could be added back at least
Still rather playing prototypes from wot with some interesting things than 7 versions of the sherman that differ by 2mm of the tracks width and different radio...
The Pz.Sfl.Ic ( wiki.warthunder.com/Pz.Sfl.Ic ) as featured in the game is also a fake design (and German). While the hull of the Luchs definitely existed, the 5cm Pak38 turret was never produced.
On the Tank Encyclopedia article, there are few photos that shown the actual test vehicle actually built. You might wanted to use the ''non-existent rotating turret'' since it never received rotating turret
The Ho-Ri was significantly more inaccurate than you mentioned. It was never built, as the person in charge of the data notoriously mistranslated the "documents" to deceive Gaijin and the players. The person claimed that a few tanks were produced but the data she provided was from a list of steel plates ordered. She also claimed the tank was tested in 1944 - but the document cited actually said the gun itself was tested, not the completed vehicle. The Ho-Ri portrayed ingame also had a surprising amount of armor between compartments for anti-spalling often found in modern tanks, added purely to buff the vehicle in game. It employs a 1,000-1,500hp powerplant made from two marine engines found on torpedo boats, which is completely BS as there's no way in hell such powerplant can be crammed into a tank destroyer. I hope you can do more digging into the fake Ho-Ri of War Thunder because instead of basing off wehraboo misconceptions, this one is a brand new, from-the-ground-up fake made up by a single person circa. 2017.
one of the things to consider about Gaijins inaccuracies is: Did gaijin compromise on historical accuracy for the sake of gameplay and development? redesigning a turret just for one prototype tank nobody actually knows anything definitive about while incredibly nerd-pleasing is also a pain in the ass, they have to redesign the turret add in its armor stats and then make sure this entirely new vehicle and its armor will actually fit within its proposed BR and not entirely fuck over every nation who doesnt have an equally whacky prototype tank. looking at it like that, the extra missile launcher or the maus turret on an E100 makes a lot of sense & is even forgivable.
fake or not I absolutely loveeee the tiger 105 and the panther II regardless of being an actuall tank or not. They both play very well at 6.7 IMO. The tiger 105 has a worse reload speed but a lil bit more penning round. Just play slowly with it and it rewards you with the most satisfying kills ever. The panther II is a faster more nimble panther version with decent armor. Its amazing as a flanking tank given its speed.
@@LordOfChaos.x No no no dont mix it up. The community was pissed that they removed them while shit like this happens and complained about gaijins hypocricy(dunno if its written like that).
@@LordOfChaos.x I dont think gaijin should remove any tanks at all regardless of being realistic or not...They should just ask the comunity on where to put certain tanks so they can be balanced i.e the Maus
Hi, regarding the tiger 2 sla engine, I searched a lot about it because I put it on my thesis back in the days and yeah information are low and in the end it was like "yeah bigger engine, x layout of cylinders, slightly less HP but diesel goes brrrt" (it was quite unique because most or even all German vehicles use gasoline instead) and the actual test reported that 5 tiger 2s were equipped with that engine and the results were OK. End of the story.
I play Forgotten Hope Secret Weapons , we also play with prototype's from WW2. For example we also have Panther Ausf. G GT 101, a Panther with Gasturbine Engine. From FHSW wiki : Flakpanzer V "Coelian" Mounting twin 3.7cm flak guns in an enclosed turret, the Fl of the Flakpanzer V "Coelian" was a variant of the Panther tank and was designed to deal with the increasing danger to German forces from ever-dominant Allied airpower. The design didn’t reach production as the Panther hull was too valuable as a main battle tank. With Allied airpower all but supreme in the later years of the war, German requirements for better equipped anti-aircraft vehicles became ever more urgent. Rheinmetall-Borsig designed the Coelian - marrying a Panther ausf G hull with a fully enclosed turret mounting twin 3.7mm flak cannons. This would give the crews a larger degree of protection when taking on strafing fighters or marauding bombers. The Coelian would also be able to fire at ground targets. Three other Flakpanzer V designs were designed. One of them was a version with four 20mm MG 151/20 guns, but it kept having to conform to revised designs based on changing government requirements (such as demands for more modern guns with longer barrels). A second one was the version with two 8.8 cm Flak 41 guns. The Last one is the "Super Coelian". Mostly the same Coelian design, but with a bigger closed turret and two more powerfull 5.5 cm Flakzwilling Gerät 58, a twin version from the 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 . Please do not make a mistake with the Flakpanzer Panther Flakzwilling mit 5.5 cm Gerät 58 which was also a Panther design with the same guns, but a turret with open roof. However, the design didn’t leave the drawing board due to the need to utilize all Panther hulls in their normal role - as arguably the best tank of the war. Ingame we have the Flakpanzer V "Super Coelian", but have the name tag as the Coelian. This is a mistake by the FHSW Dev team. It is a powerful gun wich can fire 5 rounds in 2 seconds (150 rpm) per gun! It can easy destroy light and medium tanks. The hull of the vehicle is from the Panther D. Greetings !
What's your opinion on this topic? Did I miss any tanks you might consider fake or fantastical?
This comment is edited because I was wrong, if you wanna kno then ask GetDunced
The Char B1 Ter could probably have gone on the list, given that, while certainly real, and pre-production models were completed(modified from B1 hulls), the actual production model, which had a fair few differences from the pre-production model, never saw total completion, only partial.
Can you do brawl (from transformers) next?
To clarify about the Ho-Ri, the mess came out of a miscommunication between Gaijin and their Japanese researchers with Mai being one in particular. The specifications for the Ho-Ri were initially 75 mm on the front in total which is where they got the numbers for the Ho-Ri Prototype. That is the one directly based off of the mockup with the only difference being the driver's hatch that Gaijin added onto it. The Ho-Ri Production mixed up a engine proposal, the specifications of the Ho-Ri II, and the planned performance of the gun in what you can truly call a fake tank. The 1,100 hp engine was proposed and drafted but never completed or actually considered to be put into it, the Ho-Ri II specifications is where the 125 mm UFP come from, and the gun uses the planned performance of the experimental 10 cm tank gun (long) which was to penetrate 200 mm at 1,000 m/s. In reality, it only reached a velocity of 900 m/s in firing tests. The only part I don't get where they got the information from is the thickness of the casemates. In the case of both the Ho-Ri I and II, the casemates would've just been 75 mm thick so the Prototype's being 120 - 150 mm and the Production's being 200 - 225 mm is weird.
Gaijin was told that information and by the time their researchers corrected them, it seems like the modeling had already been completed and with few Japanese tanks in that BR (on introduction) they just added it anyway. Iirc this also predated the statement they made about not adding in any more mockup or planned vehicles, which is how the J6K1 got pass because it was added just before that.
Now the Ho-Ri Prototype does have some model differences, but it matches everything that was planned for it. The Ho-Ri Production is just a outright fake and the only reason it hasn't been removed is because Gaijin hasn't found anything that could replace it yet. The only possible candidates atm is the 105 mm GSR (TD based off of the B78 IFV) if more information is found on the gun or the Type 99 HSP.
Edit: Also since this is commonly brought up; before anyone gets confused, the Ho-Ri I and the slanted mockup aren't the same. The Ho-Ri I refers specifically to the flat-front design with the fighting compartment in the rear. While the Ho-Ri mockup does situate the fighting compartment in the rear, that isn't the distinction that makes the I the I. It's the combination of both, and the Ho-Ri mockup, from what researchers can tell, predated the I and II designs, as it was just a demonstration of what the tank destroyer could look like before they became more realistic (Japan couldn't produce the large slanted UFP) with the Ho-Ri I design and then made a full blueprint for the Ho-Ri II design which is most likely the one that was being produced by the end of the war.
In the future I wouldn't mind you covering the M4-85 as seen in World of Tanks. It's implemented with a T-34 mod 1942 turret with the addition of a T-34-85 cupola... which actually makes the turret a mod 1943 but they call it the mod 1942 ingame...
Now the M4-85 was an actually proposed design from the same guy who proposed the dual-gunned IS-2, but the proposal was to use the T34-85's turret on the 75mm Shermans they had. Soon after he had this idea though, the Russian began to recieve 76mm Shermans and the idea was dropped.
www.reddit.com/r/CursedTanks/comments/ruo21p/m4_3485/
I ripped the models of the M4A2 and T-34-85 from WoT and mated the Sherman body and T-34-85 turret in blender to see what it would look like. I double checked the turret ring diameters and the -85's turret had a smaller ring then the Sherman so I image some form of modification could make the two mate. Note: the M4A2 Sherman I ripped incidentally had torsion bar suspension... so the model I made is erred in that regard. I wasn't paying attention and wound up using the cancelled M4A2E4 hull instead of a production models.
tfw you remove a tank for being "fake" and add another "fake" tank into the game to replace it.
Well for one you have proofs that it never completed, for other you have paper that says it was completed, but without photo) Who knows, maybe they remove ostwind 2 in future too)
Except as a premium.
A tank thats even more fake
@@alexanderpopov473 nope
The removed was a mockup
The added
Never got that far
Gaijn: That original porblem was solved no?
*some kid in 1943 drawing a picture of a tank with crayons*
*WT and WoT 70 years later* :
This new vehicle is based on historical documentation.
There is literally a tank in WoT made from the proposal from a Russian soldier, called the LTP; Light Tank Proposal. The soldier didn't give it a name. But despite it being drawn up from a common soldier, the drawings and design of the tank was quite good.
@@Thestuffnope they do label it as a proposal without prototypes, so at least its better than some of their... "real" tanks
😂😂
@@jonathangreenlees4772 sekrit dokuments
@@Thestuffnope In Soviet Russia you don’t give soldier tank, soldier give you a tank
Timestamps:
0:57 - Panther II
2:07 - Tiger II (105)
3:50 - Ostwind II
5:16 - E-100
6:16 - Tiger II (Sla.16)
7:19 - Ho-Ri
8:00 - Sidam 25 Mistral
8:30 - Doom Turtle
Hope this helps
@ConeOfArc pin this
Doing God's work homie
Panther2 had initially turret like Panther 1 with 75mmL70 gun. Panther 1F and later1 G got Schmalturm 1, 75mm L70 again. Also Schmalturm 2 for 88mmL71 created by Daimler Benz for PantherF. It in theory wasn't impossible to mounted on Panther2 chassis. Panther2 can found production factory, just one instead of Jagdtiger H, because roadwheels and suspension were at the same . Panther2 was 18 tons lighter and clearly more reliable than Jagdtiger H.
E100 was redesigned for only 128mmL55 gun. Not 150mmL37. Maus planned with tube 150mm , and Tiger-Maus. Tiger-Maus cancelled and E100 approved with low priority , and 128mmL55 main weapon + 75mmL24 seccond weapon( or 75mmL3 Maus1 seccond weapon ).
Tiger2 105mmL68 was usually replaced by E75 105mmL68( 105mmL52 ) but E75 wasn't completed before war ended. In theory bigger tank than King Tiger, E75 Tiger3 can hold turret with 105mm guns L52 and L68.
@jeff pentagon yeah but watching the video would explain why it's there mate
tutel
WT and woT need to label things as "production, prototype, paper, or theoretical" based on how historical they are.
@jeff pentagon that'll be the hybrid section I presume...
WoT kinda does that already with the vehicle's description. Warships as well.
No they don't need to do anything. people need to stop pretending to be experts on things they are not.
why? its not a tank simulator, its just a arcade game
war thunder stopped caring about being historically accurate years ago. it happened when the tiger IIs started being forced to fight ATGM missiles and heat FS and cold war shit etc etc
It's also worth to mentioned about Shimakaze too tho. Yes, the ship is not fake and very real but what I'm talking about is when she was first announced with 2nd turret replacing with 25mm guns. Although she was fixed after people complain, I still confused how gaijin messed that up.
It's funny you mention this and how everyone lost the plot due to it in game having the aft superfiring turret missing. Yet there are many vessels that are a hodgepodge of refits & or are missing armaments or are completely fake vessels ntm never finished too, One example is the Ocean Defence Ship Shounan which is missing a cannon on the aft turret yet crickets...
But that's how it's where everyone only goes loony when it's something more known an not obscure.
There are several lists of hodgepodge vessels or are missing weapons or fakes iirc an there's a Cruiser & a Destroyer that were never finished only being 40-60% built.
Because it never exist
well it is called “fake tank friday” so i don’t think he’ll talk about ships and planes.
money
The only fake Shimakaze i know is the cross dress trap Shimakaze
KT 105mm uses special German alien technology to allow gun breech to noclip thru rangefinder))))
sv_cheats 1
noclip ON
))))))))
Profit.
@@RusskiBlusski Player disconnected
Ban reason: Cheating
@@bomboclatlawg The true reason the KT 10.5cm was hidden.
A proper 105 mm breach wouldn't even fit in a King tiger turret
The history channel has a special on the aliens that granted them such boons
T95/T28 situation is easy. They need different designation in tree and technical malfunctions was never modelled in wt. Imagine kv2 that cannot shoot on slopes
Bold of you to assume any tank can climb a slope in this game.
@@copter2000 The hellcat can, its top speed was 55 mph
@@MrGamer-rs4ov or allows it to have special modifications for our tanks to add diversity or that be too hard for them
@@copter2000 some japnese mbt the hellcat and us wheelie tank
The T95 and T28 were the same tank, it just went through different name changes and it did function.. But it was never "made" to run with the outer two treads off that was just for transport on trains since it was so wide.
It just never made it out of testing since the war ended and we didn't need it for assaulting heavily fortified positions (It was never intended for use against tanks)
war thunder isn't the only game with the "fake" panther II
though world of tanks does have a more realistic version, the regular panther can be mounted with the schmalturm turret
there also exists a premium tank labelled "Panther 8.8", which is essentially war thunder's panther II
World of tanks carp game
@@damienamory5857 they have fish yes
@@damienamory5857 im more of a trout gamer myself
I'm more forgiving of WoT having the fake or """"""experimental""""" vehicles, since they're much less realistic and arcade-y. Whereas WT tries to treat themselves as much more serious and historical.
Heck for *years* they made fun of the ahistoric tanks in WoT
@@damienamory5857
Virgin World of Tanks carp game
Vs
Chad Yes, WoT is also a WW2 game but i prefer to play WT without disrespecting WoT
The E100 I think was War Thunder having to compromise by using a turret that actually existed to finish a historical tank that was unfinished.
If anything the E100 in both games has a fair degree of historical accuracy its just that they differ in how their historical accuracy is represented.
The weight of the Maus turret would have made it unusable for the E-100 so it's not historical at all to use it. They should have given it the more accurate turret instead since the addition to the game is already fantasy.
Plus having the E-100 with the more accurate turret would make it less of a maus clone that it is in game
@@ConeOfArc Or would it.
Was the original E-100 turret lighter, even with its 150mm gun? I am not that sure.
The only way to make it lighter is less armor, and smaller, which would mean smaller guns.
So, in my opinion, even if gaijin were to add its original turret... It would not make much of a difference.
I would even rather have the kitbashed E-100 we have ingame, at least made with existing components.
@@swisstraeng the E-100 compared to the maus had reduced armor thickness on all sides of the hull, presumably this would also mean armor would be reduced on the turret.
@@swisstraeng the original turret was too heavy when the E-100 (Tiger-Maus at the time) was being proposed. The design was changed significantly from a more Maus-like vehicle to what we know today and with it the turret needed a redesign. Like I say in the video no turret was ever selected in the end and the hull was designed separately as with most tank projects
funniest thing of the Ostwind 2 being fake is that they replaced the Coellian with it cuz the Coellian "wasn't real enough" like fucking bruh
Balance )))
I wish I had the coelian😭😭😭
And the worst part is that they will give Germany this completely fictional tank but still haven't given America the skink
U know no one can be greater than ussr
And now the Coelian is meta for 6.3 Squadron Battles.
Find me another 6.3 or lower AA that is effective and closed top to survive strafing from planes. There's none.
What bugged me most of how the Ostwind II was depicted in the game was the way the second 37mm gun was plopped next to the other. The 37mm Flak43 gun was fitted to a large bearing into the mount, do that the loading trays were being fed through the bearing. Gaijin just plopped the second gun on the far side of the first, basically doubling the load on the bearing in a asymetrical way. I can't imagine that would hold for long. Also, with the feeding of the second gun being mirrored, there is no space for the empty clips to go, and I highly suspect the empty casings would get jammed between the guns, causing malfunctions, aswell.
Honorable mention: The pz4 add on armor puts the track "armor" over the optics on the turret so in reality the gunner wouldn't be able to see anything
I want them to add some of the on paper only/wooden model us tanks
M22 with a roof mounted .50
T25 with stabilizer ( because one version did have it and they shouldn't have removed it)
And some flamethrowers could be fun like the zippo. They could be used to remove bushes from an area, burn through tanks extinguishers, instakill open tops and trucks. They could even add a burning effect to buildings so you can set a city on fire and fill the skies with smoke making it harder for cas and snipers to do anything.
As if. America never gets to have anything halfway useful. All of our tanks that aren't completely outmatched are either moved up in br until they are useless or are given such a high repair cost or in the case of the super Pershing both. Oh and be moved down a tier because America can't have a useful grinding tank like the m24 because fuck us right.
People would nonstop complain about getting shot in the flamethrower tank and immediately exploding.
Rip fps on city maps
@@SueDoeNimh In a wirbelwind you blow up instantly if you get shot in the ammo, so that's not a problem.
@@Zorro9129 the problem is that the Wirbelwind was more useful than flame tanks
You forget about M6A2E1
Even Gaijin stated they made up add on armor from the concept drawing to buff it.
The armor was planned but never fitted if I remember right. So although that tank is semi fake ingame it's not far from the original plan for the vehicle
@@ConeOfArc isnt it the same case as Tiger 105? Altough Tiger 105 is more possible since the M6A2E1 doesnt tell the add on armor beside concept art?
@@rifqifm6434 no, the Tiger 105 was never even considered past the proposal which itself wasn't actually requested.
Took it straight from Wargaming, Gaijin saw WoT and decided War Thunder a YEAR later
I’m sure someone already mentioned it but the M6A2E1 when it was added it had a large UFP added which brought the frontal armor to 200mm. Although this plate existed on a plan it was for an old modification of the M6 with the 76mm essentially mixing two different projects together. Gaijin stated it was to make the vehicle like as if it had entered service. In my opinion it was to make the vehicle less likely to be useless in many people’s eyes. Since it still leaves two 100mm weakspots on either side I don’t tend to fight with the hull facing forward since the M6A2 has the blessed full reverse speed and a massive engine and bouncy engine deck.
I’d prefer it if the plate was gone myself cause then it might afford a lower br
The gun is what puts it that br. And the turret is almost impenetrable from the front. Hulled down M6A2E1 is op even for its current BR. You can't put a cannon that powerful any lower.
@@smolwavingsnail9028 I mean other than HE it’s got almost the same pen as the ASU-85. OP is seriously stretching it. Underplayed is more accurate. A of tanks can actually easily pen the turret if they just aimed for the big flat bit above the mantlet. And yeah the way to get hull down anywhere is just reverse the hull and face the engine deck at them. It’ll absorb almost every shell due to basically 250mm of engine. Only APDS & Soviet 122mm can pen through. Also gives 100% protection against 155mm HE shots to everything except top of turret shots
@@legozeke246 an ASU 85 is a TD that can be penned by most rank 2 vehicles. you wanna talk about stretches that comparison takes the cake. the M6A2E1 can sit behind a rock with it's cannon that one shots practically every time it pens with nothing but it's it's extremely strong and trolly turret sticking out. that small flat area you mentioned is extremely hard to hit and because of volumetric bounces most of the time. good positioning negates the front plate anyway. this vehicle would be monstrously over powered at any lower off a br even without the front plate and implying otherwise when you go on to say how driving it backwards make you practically invulnerable is dumb. you literally just proved my point. removing the front plat doesn't make it any less of a power house to anyone that knows how to play it. so yes it is overpowered and yes it would most certainly be at a lower br. next time you try prove someone wrong it might help if you don't inadvertently prove them right in the process
@@smolwavingsnail9028 well it’s good but it also comes into what you qualify as OP. It’s gun does fulfill two three I believe needed for a perfect gun. Pen, Post-Pen and reload. Reload being the item lacking. And yes the turret can be bouncy but that’s not in un heard of for that BR. You consider the vehicle vastly OP for 6.7. I think it’s good to great for 6.7 but not OP or requiring of a higher br. When you get down to it you essentially have T29 with a worse turret, worse reload, no side armor, a frontal plate that will only stop idiots with over tiered guns who don’t know where to aim and requires either playing hull down to take full advantage or playing in reverse which is considered unorthodox.
Am I saying all this to say the M6A2 is bad or that I dislike it? No not all. I’m saying if the vehicle was any higher in it would get outclassed by it’s 7.0 counterparts.
In my opinion it’s 6.7s are equal to it
The T26E1-1 gives you a better top speed reload, side armor and similar gun
The T26E5 is gives you a great reload and amazing armor (mostly)
The M26E1 is a very quick M26 with a fantastic reload to pen ratio almost on par with the Pak43
Then there’s the T30, T34 and T29. All of which I’d say are better vehicles.
I’m careful to not call vehicles OP when in fact a lot of vehicles are good and can be great when used to their advantages. If Gaijin regarded every vehicle as being “OP” when played to their advantage then we’d get a situation with T32s only 2-3 brs up and the one thing the vehicle does best is highly inconsistent and not worth bringing over more consistent vehicles of the same BR
@@legozeke246 you proved that it would be op if it was moved down. I agree it's ok where it is atm. Even though before my account got locked i did think it was fairly over powered. And im not even the greatest player. And yeh the reload was a bit horrendous. And the T26E5 is basically to a tiger 2 what a jumbo is to to a tiger one. the super pershing sucks imo and is over tiered now especially comapred to the T26E5 the extra plates do nothing because it's still not modelled correctly, gaijin doesn't understand how much velocity a shell loses when it hits something. So a tiger 2 can still pen it through both armour plates and the upper glacis which is total bullshit.
I love this series!
Where is the commander?
@@warspite7452 prolly fuckin other ships
Boat gang boat gang
@@inanisfrfr6 shiet
@@ijnhieibb5140 don't mind the fact my profile pic is warriors of chaos and not warspite
In planes i can only remember r2y2's as fakes
Ho229 too, actually.. not entirely fake, but combination of several prototypes
J6K is also borderline fake as it was just a mockup irl, with entirely fake armament setup.
@@RFi731 if you have the horten than the bv-238 is a similar situation since it had no guns fitted IRL
At least the Horton actually flew unlike the none existent r2y2
@@RFi731 Actually the Horton 229 V3 has one built example which currently resides in the Smithsonian. If it were finished, it would have had even more features not shown in game.
I dont mind fake tanks being pointed out, i also like fake capabilities of overhyped tanks being pointed out
Good of you to make this video. I am old enough to remember when WoT put a historical mode in the game and weirdly, not enough people wanted to play it. Make of that what you will.
because the historical mode was unbalanced, that's why nobody wanted to play it. Plus, only a small selection of tanks and maps made this game mode quite boring quite quickly.
@@robinkhn2547 yes, I think you're right there... the real world and gaming are two separate things nowadays!
I'm very surprised hearing some people both mind fake tanks in games and that people have the audacity to get angry when you call their favorite game innacurate. I've always considered games like WT and WoT as games first, so I've always thought there was innacurate stuff added to streamline gameplay and progression.
One of the interesting things on WOTs side of fiction is the the E-75 was supposed to use the 10,5 cm I believe in lieu of the Tiger II and trying to mount a 10,5 cm on it. However the E-75 allows for the mounting of the 12,8 cm which is incorrect in the context of making the E-75 real or at the very least realistic to some degree
The E-50 and E-75 never got past the hull designs with no turrets being designed or selected. The ones you see on models or ingame are usually based on the theoretical turret drawings made by historians.
I believe the E-75's turret in WoT is actually just the larger turret that was proposed for the Tiger II to fit the 105mm. The E-50's is a fake modified Schmalturm.
@@ConeOfArc yeah I’m saying along the lines of proposed ideas because the E series was also meant to improve upon the previous tanks (of course) as well as be cost effective but of course making a cost effective and better vehicle when you’re at the end of a war and losing isn’t gunna work all that well
@@KermitTheGamer21 yes I know of the E-50 turret being fake not bad for being fake tho
Built a 1:35 scale plastic model of the E-50 & E-75 by Trumpeter. They look neat and all, especially with the longer 88mm & 105mm guns but really cannot imagine these vehicles in actual combat.
Great video Cone! Going above and beyond back into WT just to give us a great video. Braver than I am, just thinking about that game makes me upset.
Early WT player and german main (panthers have my heart).
Germany before the cold War tanks didn't have much past 6.7 and not a lot of juicy options for premium tanks. SLA, panther 2, and Tiger 2 105, flakpanzer 341, all made up for this gap between them, America, and Russsia.
While I like the realistic take on WT. It's a game. I'm fine with bending realism for balancing (especially on a game as grindy). They already do it so adding paper tanks I'm not against. Heck we got things from the 60s fighting tiger 2s.
We got things fromt the seventies fighting tiger Is. I recently found out the concept 3 was introduced in 1976 or so
AMX-30 1972 comes to mind....
why am i not surprised that the german main is complaining about "muh ww2 tanks fighting cold war tanks"
@@TheTankCrew the germans have a lot of overpowered vehicles, that are low in BR because they're driven by german mains with a collective IQ of 38. Half of you are brazilian wehraboos who still dont know where to shoot the jumbo after playing the tiger I for 200 games.
@@SteveIsHavingMC not really trying to be one of those guys but being uptiered and being dead weight isn't much fun. The long 88 is mediocre before being uptiered and the 105 isn't much better.
Rather not spend 15 minutes trying to avoid being seen to fish for 1-3 sideshots in a heavy tank that has slow acceleration and mobility.
It's not the worst till you play long range maps uptiered. You can't even run before someone gets their free SL.
The biggest problem with fake/experimental/prototype vehicles in War Thunder is that they often have some kind of ability that only worked on paper. Like a supercharged engine BUT it would always catch on fire during testing. Like a giant gun BUT it was too big for the turret to operate. Like an fast autoloader BUT in reality it would break down after cycling just a few rounds. When these vehicles are put in game they totally fuck up the flow and logic.
It's a video game
@@Americanbadashh Yeah I know and a lot of them don't fit the VIDEO GAME BALANCING.
While its nice to have a reminder that WT isnt a simulator we have to consider that a lot of these legacy vehicles are gaijin trying to fill out the then top tier of 6.7 line ups for germany and as such they were scrounging around a fair bit.
Still coellian back in tech tree when
Contrary to popular belief the Ostwind did exist and was produced in large numbers. However it was kept on the alien motherships that were working with the Nazis to bring about the second Thanksgiving.
Credit - History Channel.
Some years ago, the war thunder twitter said that the ingame panther 2 was not a paper tank because all of its components had been made. Yeah, they went that far to NOT admit that they had fake tanks in game
for the E-100: the maus-turm is 55 tons on its own
To be honest I like those fake tank that have been taken away from the tech tree just because it's fake doesn't mean other players shouldn't be able to see them or use them the game is already highly unrealistic so with certain shooting mechanics and other things
I'm on your side here. I quite enjoy the more crazy prototypical AFV stuff and find it annoying when Gaijin picks and chooses rather than keep all guesstimate tanks. I especially found it humorous when, maybe due to the language barrier, they added the South African 'Concept 3' to the game with that name, a clear placeholder for something never built.
. . . . . . .
Take them, you need some
,,,,,,,,
You might need some of these to so here you go.
I typed it quick don't try to give me a grammar lesson
You understand exactly what I'm saying
As a Japanese main, honestly I feel like the Ho-Ri Production should be replaced while the prototype can stay as a premium. The JSDF already have a successor to the prior vehicle being the Type 75 SPH that could replace the Ho-Ri, the Type 99 SPH. Plus it’s weird that a random Imperial era vehicle comes in the middle of the base tech tree in a tier with only other JSDF vehicles. Just feels like a bit of a clash of time periods.
You missed the unrealistic Challenger 2. I have classified documents to prove that it's all... wait, what was that sound?
_"SAS OPEN UP!"_
wt community be like:
I found this video fairly entertaining, but let's be honest. We play Warthunder because it's a badass game not for historical accuracy.
I love how all three R2Y2 jets in the Japanese tree are just some Gaijin dev’s weaboo fan fiction
man, its so hard to dream of Gaijin going to the path of "we are now allowing paper tanks to be in game" because we all know they'll just break the game more
I mean, some nations do need paper stuff like italy and japan
Said like this game is not broken
I wish they had like events just 1 time every year like the maus event so that players can get the tiger 105, panther 2, and flak panther
@@AlanLin1995I mean, he said it would break the game "more", which implies the game is already broken to some degree.
"He's illiterate"
"He'll adapt"
"He'll adapt to reading?"
lmao
cone of arc: The world of tanks turret is more accurate
wt players: impossible
oh how the turntables
Wargaming: Cuz I can make gods kill themselves! It is a game after all 😎
Gaijin (Daebom): WARGAMING-CHAN!!! >///<
Gaijin became a human form snail girl. Thats how fallen Gaijin really went lol
This is funny ya know? Panther II was 50% fake. The E-100 is also half fake and yet... It's still in the game... U know why? MONEYYYYYYY
NEED TO LEAK MORE CLASSIFIED DOCUMENTS
-Every war thunder player
Imagine Wargaming make more Historical Accurate E-100 than Gaijin E-100
Perhaps there could be an episode on fake tanks from total tank simulator? Not exactly a realistic game, but could be interesting.
the lego like game? Why...?
@@panzerlite8108 why not
What the game that breaks peoples computers
When they fix that I might go back
@@humanhuman5024 wut?
@@person0-016 that game is known for breaking gaming PCs just randomly happened to few people and happened to me
For me I was just playing and then my computer crashed I tried to turn it back on and nothing would happen
Next day it turned on but my graphics card is broken and the computer is super slow
This was not even a bad pc my pc ran battlefield 5 on high at 240fps and it ran total tank simulator perfectly as well before the crash
When I looked back at the game I found a steam guide where people were saying exactly the same thing that happens with my pc where it just crashed and broke the next day
I hate the fact that most of the "fake," vehicles go to the larger trees/sections of trees, whereas it'd be much more sensible to allow paper designs that aren't ridiculous for the small trees. The P43 for Italy that has slightly improved armor and can mount the 75/34, 105/25, or likely the 75/46 guns.
Some people want to feel elitist about it over WoT (which is ironic, considering this video) but it would certainly help WT Nations that have large empty spots in their tree or large amounts of lend-lease materiel.
for the e1OO, the reason its so commonly known for a maus turret is because thats what they used to test it, they made a maus turret to see if the e1OO could hold it, and thats what the soviets found
Not sure where you heard that but that is not true. The Soviets found a Maus turret on a blown up Maus hull and put it onto a complete hull which only had a simulated turret weight
I mean, I think that as long as they label not perfectly accurate tanks as "what if tanks" it wouldn't be bad, I think that they internally don't mind doing that but they fear that if they come up clean by saying "we made this tank based on experimental trials and how they would have been deployed if they fixed the prototypes issues" would make them seem less "realistic" PR-wise
I love how you point out the inaccuracies in WT it makes it where I can yell at gaijin for valid reasons
i mean, he no longer "works" for Gaijin so he can now say whatever he wants to without getting called out by the company
🤨
@@ceoofdazn7615 hello, imma yell at you for a valid reason. Okay. PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD MAKE IT WHERE I CAN PUNCH SOMEONE IN THE FACE FOR STEALING MY KILL. Thank you that’s the only valid reason I have of yelling at you
And yet, they still won't give up the Bob Semple.
12.0
German mains:
*Cracks fingers*
*Places fingers on keyboard*
"RRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE"
i imagine it more like "SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE" and then probably "its your local sherrif, were just here to make sure youre ok"
I'm not gonna lie... i would like they to add more "paper tanks" just because it's more fun, more content and more stuff to do. :D
Basically half the WW2 german tech tree.
I always hated that they removed those vehicles. It never made sense to me. Especially when there are other fictional vehicles still available and one of the replacements being even more fictional. They should have left them, alone for the reason that they add more usefull/playable/enjoyable content to the game.
The SIDAM mistral isn't exactly ''fake''.
The thing you see in the photo is a real picture, and yes although its only seen with one, that doesn't mean it couldn't mount 2 or that it never did mount 2. Many sources state it could mount 2 so its not exactly on the same level of other vehicles on the list. As far as im aware and from the research i did myself, it only mounted 1 to save time as this vehicle likely had a rushed development cycle. According to an OTO Melara employee i had spoken to it was mainly created to upgrade the ones in service at the time, and also participated in some sort of SPAA competition in the USA. But TLDR is this : real vehicle, could mount 2 mistral launchers therefore its fine by Gaijin and Warthunder standards.
nicho immideatly jumping in when someone mentions italy, i see?
keep up the good suggestions my guy :)
@@jackdiedtoday_ Thanks man haha!
Gotta keep people informed ;)
I was mainly pointing out that the real thing was never built outside of mockup ones and that the photos we do have show it lacking the second launcher.
@@ConeOfArc As far as im aware there aren't any mock-ups, but yeah fair enough. Also Cone hmu if you wanna make a video on an Italian vehicle. :D
can you make a video about the fake tas tank variants? it is interesting to see that a random hungarian tank that never was completed has like 4 fake variants, one turreted and three tank destroyers. this all is thanks to one guy called pál korbuly. these are the fake hungarians:
1. tas tank with a large angular turret and maybe an 88mm gun. i believe it is referred to as 44m tas (k) or just tas with korbuly turret
2. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate and a jagdpanther-like cut out area where the gun sits. this one has a horisontally placed cylindrical gun mantlet. this gun mantlet probably could have allowed the gun to move side-to-side, but it definetely could allow some gun depression
3. tas tank destroyer with a flat casemate with a sphere-like gun cover which didnt allow the gun to move side-to-side or to depress. this one is most likely a misinterpretation of the side profile of the tas tank destroyer korbuly originally made up
4. tas tank destroyer with a larger casemate and a spherical gun mantlet that is somewhere between the one the semovente 105 and the su-122-54 had
i hope these fakes will eventually get into one of the fake tank friday episodes
Tiger II isn't an upgrade, thats the top upgrade.
The E-Series is what makes you believe Germany would've have parts shared with many classes of armored weapons. E75 would've made that 10.5cm real
War thunder: we wanna be historically accurate so we are gonna give America just a handful of spaa for ww2 brs.
Also gaijin: KUGELBLITZ GO BRR
I feel like it's worth mentioning that the Panther II is most likely Gaijin's attempt to create an E-50 with "built" components mashed together, as back when it was added Germany lacked high tier tanks. It doesn't explain everything, but the E-50 if it were a completed design would help explain why it has an upgraded engine and would be a more reasonable explanation for why it has an 88mm Schmalturm. We might never know what the E-50 would've been like if it were finished and produced, but I think it is reasonable to say it most likely would've received the 88mm Schmalturm if that were completed and most of the other upgrades the Panther II has in game. The Panther II as it's represented in War Thunder is still a fake tank, but it helps to think of it more like a "finished" E-50 in disguise.
Chad wot player: of course the tank is fake, nice gun tho
Virgin wt player: wym my pzkpfwgndmrkd 8765 is fake???
Imagine using hit points completely dependent on RNGesus
As a Japan main and someone who has spaded the Ho-Ri Production, the Ho-ri does fill in a hole in the tree, and while I think it might be fine if it was removed, it would make Japan’s already small lineups get smaller. If they ever do remove the Ho-Ri’s, I just hope something is put in its place as to compensate for it.
The Japanese got a replacement for the Type 75 SPH, which is the tank destroyer researched above the Ho-Ri. The Type 99. That could be a good replacement.
Wait a second…
Ostwind ll: Crap… Hans he found out, send help!
*Owns an Ostwind ll in War Thunder*
War Thunder logic:
Maus and Panther 2 was prototypes, we remove it
Adding Ostwind 2 which never even went to production.
I think the Ostwind 2 turret being different from the one that’s described is solely for game balance. If it had a much larger gap like the documents say, then the turret crew would easily be machine-gunned to death from the front, which is already simple to do if you aim carefully. Open-tops already have it hard with artillery, aircraft, and being machine-gunned through turret gaps.
I mean, back in the day warthunder was praised for only having real, working, enlisted as being used at least one in a battle vehicles in comparison to world of tanks and its blueprint roaster.
you could talk about the SK105 Super Kürassier (Prototyp) that would be nice :)
Could u check the accuracy of the spähanzer ru251. It should be a german light tank
It does exist
@@chost-059 I always thought it was a paper tank that wasn't built
It exists. Theres an entire wikipedia article with its data.
@@awacsrazgriz967 aight.
Hey cone I actually read a book in Sierra Vista AZ that talked in depth about the development and proposed deployment of the SLA.16 diesel engine. It was put into a tiger hull (can't say exactly which model) however it suffered issues of overheating and the project ended up having to be abandoned
It wasent a problem with overheating it was a problem that the king tigers needed to be modded to accept the SLA.16 Diesel Engine it was Air cooled not water cooled as well as a modular engine able to bring heavy vehicles like the jagdtiger and Kingtiger up to better speeds
For the Ostwind II, I would see it as gaijin’s fairly reasonable interpretation of a slightly more refined production variant.
The E100 point doesn’t feel totally fair. If all they have for info is the mock-up drawings and those have a Maus style turret as a placeholder because they never picked a turret for it then surely that’s as valid as the WoT turret because there’s no way to truly tell what they would’ve done with the project had it been pursued further.
I will never accept the demand for "documentation" on later war German tanks, the whole country was bombed and *paper* likes to burn. It's pure madness to demand 8K full HD 20 000 page documentation of the track links.
The American ADATS built on the Bradley had a single prototype before being cancelled.
I'm a model builder, not a gamer. So maybe I can provide a slightly different perspective, here . . . .
These proposed / hypothetical designs are popular among Armor Modelers; especially the German "Paper Panzers." This trend began around the early 1990's with 1/35th scale kits of the E-100 and Maus tanks being issued. These were quickly followed-up by other proposed designs, such as the Flakpanzer V Coelian and Flakpanzer IV Kugelblitz.
I think these tanks became popular because they were 'different,' and modelers were looking for a 'break' from yet another Panzer IV or Stug III project. But until fairly recently, most model kit manufacturers would have preferred to have 10% of the Panzer IV market than 100% of the Maus market. This changed when it became apparent that kits of these "Paper Panzers" or "one-off" field modifications would sell, and we've seen a fantastic array of such kits at local hobby shops over the past two decades. (There is even a kit available of a proposed Soviet ball-shaped "Sharotank" available!)
But we modelers only have to build and display our kits. Moreover, we're quick to point out that these are models of tanks that were NOT actually used in wartime, and in contests, they're judged on workmanship; not whether or not they were 'real.' More to the point, we model builders don't have to determine how they could be used in a game.'
Now if only a kit manufacturer would come out with a 1/35th (or even 1/72nd) scale kit of the infamous KV-VI Behemoth . . . .
Gaijin knew entirely that the panther 2 and tiger 2 105 were fake when they put them on the game, they created their own version of those tanks to give germany an equal tank to face latest urss tanks on that time 2015-2016
The E-100 Was a super heavy tank project like the Maus, we can't say it's fake BECAUSE NO TURRET WAS EVER DESIGNED FOR THE E-100. Just like the Ratte, they are all portraits of what the people think it was like.
the design of the War Thunder's E-100 resembled the ''Tiger-Maus'' designed, which is of course (despite similar) are not exactly the same
@@Kalashnikov413 Still, no turret was ever designed, and the Chasis are very similar to the Maus, because the papers we're eathier burnt in 1945 By the hig Nazi command, or conficated by the Soviets.
i dont think the t28 suspension would really care tbh its the fact its ground pressure is so terrible that if parked even on hard soil it would sink within hours and if it was remotely soft ground it would sink down to the hull in no time and literally dig itself down if it tried to turn at all the suspension itself was robust enough to carry the tank easily its the ground beneath it that you got to worry about even destroying asphalt if you turn
01:17 "Where fantasy and fun come to life".
I have absolutely no issue with fairly realistic interpretations of projects or prototypes in a production form being in the game
Hans: "Why are we making all these weird tank prototypes instead of building more StuGs?"
Franz: "So that our great-grandchildren will have something to spend their money on Hans, you Dummkopf!"
E100 in potato game originally use mouse turret as well. That was change in few weeks before release of tree. It was few videos and trailer featuring that variant.
that maus misspelling hurts me on a personal level
I want the Zerstörer 45 flakpanzer for the german tech tree...
There are two "real" possibilities of Ostwind II:
1)either it was made with existing vertical arrangement Flak 43 gun as they needed to finish prototype for report, but no mention of side arrangement being produced and delivered specifically for this vehicle exists;
2)or they've used naval M42/44 mounts and had to enlarge opening as you mention.
Why does Gaijin do it differently? Effectiveness against ground vehicles! The BR of SPAAG in this game relies heavily on how "universal" it is. That's why Otomagic is king and why near useless against planes due to lack of modification and VT fuzes ZSU-57-2 has high BR.
Option №1 gives gun vertical spread and exposes loader to MG fire due to height, option №2 leaves it with exposed to MGs front, but allows it to put two shells side by side. The iteration ingame relies solely on need to be effective against ground vehicles.
Is it really that hard to create a wwii game without lying?
So Gaijin would replace a fake tank with a tank of which only one was produced, but would not add a Hungarian tank tree (like the South African), a nation which was the 3rd largest tank producer Axis power in Europe in WW2.
I used to play World of Tanks so long ago, that there really weren't any fake tanks in the game. There were definitely a few prototype tanks that actually were produced... but not the absolute ridiculous, 100% fantasy nonsense that sin WOT now.
This was a long, long time ago though. 9+ years.
Yes, i can vouch for that. But you can't really deny it. They are an arcade based game after all
When a wot panther 2 is more realistic you know you did bad
I think a cool fake tank you could take a look at would be the Chimeria tank destroyer in Wargame, a Canadian TD that seems to be based of the idea of the "Jagdchieftan" or the Chieftan Casemate Test Rig (CTR)
I believe there is nothing wrong with "Fake" Tanks as long as they make some sort of sense and could in theory work for the time period they are designed for.
You can certainly forgive WoT for being more liberal with the amount of fakes/paper tanks. The game is effectively now an Alt-History game, with the amount of interconnected lore from the special game modes, the different holiday events, snippets from some of the vanity items and battle pass.
The Panther had some very worthwhile editions coming to it before the was ended, gun stabilization and a auto loader coming to mind. Neither have been put on WOTs Panthers.
Source for the Auto-loading Panther? IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. Would like to see the FV 4202 with the Auto-loading 183mm lol, but auto panther would be fun.
Dude, the Russians have loads of large caliber autoloaders ! Lol😆
Where did you get that idea from?😛
My source? You don't realize how rude this question is and that I had to dig this source up do you because you don't feel like doing some research on your own on things like this obviously.
Panther Variants 1942/1945
Hillary Doyle/Tom Jentz/Mike Badrocke
Page 10
A Mehrladeeinrichtung (automatic loader)7.5cm KW.K 42/2(L70) to be completed in April 1945
Stabilized Gunsights April 1945
I guess WOTs never told you this..😁
@@brealistic3542 Dude no need to be so rude. The Russians did have large calibre autoloaders but they were on cold war tanks like the T-62 and T-72. For world war 2 it was a nightmare to get 3" to 5" autoloaders working on ships never mind tanks.
Also the earliest reference for a Mehrladeeinchtung equipped tank is the Spc 1 and Ru 251 prototypes from the 60s.
Secondly your source says nothing about the panthers gun at all. Panther Variants 1942-45 page 10 is about Panther Aust F and the design conception of the Schmalturm turret in late 1944. There is no reference in this book about a autoloading 7.5cm gun for the Panther bro
@@dessertfoxo4096 You're changing the goal posts now and also projecting. What you said is patently false since on page 10 very specifically they cite both projects for the Panther being a priority and under development with a date that shows they were about to be finished.
"IRL Auto loaders for anything larger then a 50mm are nightmares. " Your words.. Not specific to ww2 whatsoever and wrong since the panther was about to have one as a top priority and a stabilized rangefinder!
The person who obviously is the rude one is YOU and also HAS NOT READ THIS BOOK!
I gave you the exact source and page and you deny it all. Saying it is I that haven't read this book.
I OWN IT !
You obviously don't or can't read...
When someone says.."give me the source" or "Source please?" it is invariably a person who knows little to nothing on the subject and is suffering a massive dose of the Dunning/Krugger effect. They expect you do not have a source to give them on hand.
Well, I do.
No matter what evidence you give them they will deny it and excuse YOU of not reading the material.
I don't know why I even bothered because you're obviously a Butthurt child that refuses to be corrected.
Buddy, I have a BA in History with a very high grade in MA material in it also.
I know Wence I am talking about here.
You obviously do not.
If you can show me material that contradicts the info I just gave you then do it.
Not just your personal conjectures that mean nothing as you have been doing all along.
Now go back to getting your info from WOTs because it's so accurate. :)
@@brealistic3542 Yeah, no it doesnt, Do your self a Favor and READ THE FUCKING BOOK
The ostwind two will always piss me off. Love how they got rid of the cowellian which had a complete wooden model made and plans for the real one because it “never existed” then they had this piece of crap and it literally never existed. Also idk why they removed “paper” tanks anyway. I feel like if there was comprehensive and plans,and or a mock up built or should be able to be added. Now obv I don’t want to see total fake tanks like wot does but I feel like the panther 2 and cowellian could be added back at least
I am the tank expert, so i can say that this guy is telling the truth. He deserves more Subscibers than most of the idiots on UA-cam.
It would be cool to add our own fictional tanks, then again it'll be problems with overpowered tanks.
The panther 2 slaps, I have an entire WT account dedicated to it
Still rather playing prototypes from wot with some interesting things than 7 versions of the sherman that differ by 2mm of the tracks width and different radio...
The Pz.Sfl.Ic ( wiki.warthunder.com/Pz.Sfl.Ic ) as featured in the game is also a fake design (and German). While the hull of the Luchs definitely existed, the 5cm Pak38 turret was never produced.
On the Tank Encyclopedia article, there are few photos that shown the actual test vehicle actually built. You might wanted to use the ''non-existent rotating turret'' since it never received rotating turret
The Ho-Ri was significantly more inaccurate than you mentioned. It was never built, as the person in charge of the data notoriously mistranslated the "documents" to deceive Gaijin and the players. The person claimed that a few tanks were produced but the data she provided was from a list of steel plates ordered. She also claimed the tank was tested in 1944 - but the document cited actually said the gun itself was tested, not the completed vehicle. The Ho-Ri portrayed ingame also had a surprising amount of armor between compartments for anti-spalling often found in modern tanks, added purely to buff the vehicle in game. It employs a 1,000-1,500hp powerplant made from two marine engines found on torpedo boats, which is completely BS as there's no way in hell such powerplant can be crammed into a tank destroyer. I hope you can do more digging into the fake Ho-Ri of War Thunder because instead of basing off wehraboo misconceptions, this one is a brand new, from-the-ground-up fake made up by a single person circa. 2017.
Raised Bussians is an incredible name
To my untrained eye, the Ostvin II looks more like a Panzer IV Wirbelwind that had two of the four AA guns removed.
one of the things to consider about Gaijins inaccuracies is: Did gaijin compromise on historical accuracy for the sake of gameplay and development? redesigning a turret just for one prototype tank nobody actually knows anything definitive about while incredibly nerd-pleasing is also a pain in the ass, they have to redesign the turret add in its armor stats and then make sure this entirely new vehicle and its armor will actually fit within its proposed BR and not entirely fuck over every nation who doesnt have an equally whacky prototype tank.
looking at it like that, the extra missile launcher or the maus turret on an E100 makes a lot of sense & is even forgivable.
fake or not I absolutely loveeee the tiger 105 and the panther II regardless of being an actuall tank or not. They both play very well at 6.7 IMO. The tiger 105 has a worse reload speed but a lil bit more penning round. Just play slowly with it and it rewards you with the most satisfying kills ever. The panther II is a faster more nimble panther version with decent armor. Its amazing as a flanking tank given its speed.
I dont understand why people complained that much
U are playing a damm game where ww2 tanks meet cold war tanks
Which is not realistic
KT105 is pretty much an american heavy in german lineup
@@LordOfChaos.x No no no dont mix it up. The community was pissed that they removed them while shit like this happens and complained about gaijins hypocricy(dunno if its written like that).
@@awacsrazgriz967 Gaijin removed them because some nerds complained that they were non historical accurate
I remember when it happened
@@LordOfChaos.x I dont think gaijin should remove any tanks at all regardless of being realistic or not...They should just ask the comunity on where to put certain tanks so they can be balanced i.e the Maus
It's funny how world of tanks does a better job of implementing prototype and paper vehicles compared to war thunder.
Hi, regarding the tiger 2 sla engine, I searched a lot about it because I put it on my thesis back in the days and yeah information are low and in the end it was like "yeah bigger engine, x layout of cylinders, slightly less HP but diesel goes brrrt" (it was quite unique because most or even all German vehicles use gasoline instead) and the actual test reported that 5 tiger 2s were equipped with that engine and the results were OK. End of the story.
Would you happen to have the source material you used for that? I haven't seen any mention of it being put into any Tiger IIs outside the Jagtiger.
I play Forgotten Hope Secret Weapons , we also play with prototype's from WW2.
For example we also have Panther Ausf. G GT 101, a Panther with Gasturbine Engine.
From FHSW wiki :
Flakpanzer V "Coelian"
Mounting twin 3.7cm flak guns in an enclosed turret, the Fl of the Flakpanzer V "Coelian" was a variant of the Panther tank and was designed to deal with the increasing danger to German forces from ever-dominant Allied airpower. The design didn’t reach production as the Panther hull was too valuable as a main battle tank.
With Allied airpower all but supreme in the later years of the war, German requirements for better equipped anti-aircraft vehicles became ever more urgent. Rheinmetall-Borsig designed the Coelian - marrying a Panther ausf G hull with a fully enclosed turret mounting twin 3.7mm flak cannons. This would give the crews a larger degree of protection when taking on strafing fighters or marauding bombers. The Coelian would also be able to fire at ground targets.
Three other Flakpanzer V designs were designed. One of them was a version with four 20mm MG 151/20 guns, but it kept having to conform to revised designs based on changing government requirements (such as demands for more modern guns with longer barrels).
A second one was the version with two 8.8 cm Flak 41 guns.
The Last one is the "Super Coelian". Mostly the same Coelian design, but with a bigger closed turret and two more powerfull 5.5 cm Flakzwilling Gerät 58, a twin version from the 5.5 cm/77 (2.17") Gerät 58 . Please do not make a mistake with the Flakpanzer Panther Flakzwilling mit 5.5 cm Gerät 58 which was also a Panther design with the same guns, but a turret with open roof.
However, the design didn’t leave the drawing board due to the need to utilize all Panther hulls in their normal role - as arguably the best tank of the war.
Ingame we have the Flakpanzer V "Super Coelian", but have the name tag as the Coelian. This is a mistake by the FHSW Dev team. It is a powerful gun wich can fire 5 rounds in 2 seconds (150 rpm) per gun! It can easy destroy light and medium tanks. The hull of the vehicle is from the Panther D.
Greetings !
You are correct on what you have said in the video but these are reasons they have removed these tanks.