Just a comment, mayonnaise is technically an oil in water emulsion with substantially more oil than water. It is the relative paucity of the continuous phase that makes the emulsion thick.
As always, awesome video Darcy ! Quick question, will you ever make a video on cocktail foamers using polysorbate 80? It’s a surfactant so I figured it could be used to make cocktail foamers diy.
Thanks, yes it is one of the ways they can add flavours to powders. They often also just use partially water soluble flavour compounds (e.g. orange aldehydes, etc.) that dissolve in water at low levels, but still at a level that is intense enough to taste. This is often why certain flavours don't necessarily taste natural, but close enough.
Great video, and I'm glad to have signed up for your Patreon. Since you mention Buchner funnels: I purchased the vacuum filtration kit from hBARSCI for doing this kind of filtering, and their kit works very poorly. The pump works well, but almost all of the vacuum pressure is lost within the flask-funnel setup. I can generate 60 psi by plugging the pump outlet and pumping once, but I can't generate more that 5 psi attached to the flask. The process is only slightly faster than coffee filters and gravity. Can you suggest a Buchner setup that actually works?
I've been wondering why magnesium carbonate is the preferred salt for these processes. Is there any reason why calcium carbonate would not work just as well?
I've thought about that as well and I don't have an answer, but it could be that calcium carbonate acts differently in water. Climbers chalk is almost exclusively magnesium carbonate probably for the same reasons pharmacists use it for emulsification. Pharmacists also used finely ground pumice stone to emulsify as well, it has the benefit of not reacting with acids like the carbonated do.
Yes, emulsification helps improve flavour/aroma but also keeps things stable (the oil doesn't separate out). And yes, you can use essential oils, extracts or other flavour compounds with this technique.
Hey all I have the syrup for my drink perfected . Do I still need to go thru the commercial formulation? That is expensive and as a start up I want to avoid unnecessary costs. Can I skip the commercial formulation and go directly to co packer?
Does Magnesium Carbonate affect the flavor of the concentrate or the final product? Wouldn't a person who has good taste buds taste the chalkiness? Does any of the polysorbates give a soapy taste? I've tasted some yogurt that has a soapy taste, maybe they used some kind of soapy emulsifier.
The magnesium carbonated is filtered out, so doesn't appear in the final product. It is also insoluble in water so it doesn't affect the final drink. And some emulsifiers taste soapy, but Polysorbate 60 and 80 have mild flavours, and when used at appropriate levels you can't really taste them. Though some people can be sensitive to certain taste, most people won't notice.
So what is the difference in end results from emulsification with something like polysorbates versus making an essense with alcohol? The chemist in me is screaming that the terpenes you seperated from the water alcohol layer in the essence video have to now be a different flavor profile as a result of the seperation than using this method which encompasses all the terpenes. So I guess my question is if I make an orange oil essence with alcohol, water and glycerin and then make an emulsion with orange oil like this video, how will the ending flavors differ? Is one method going to be more desireable than the other?
Terpenes add some aroma, though not as much as the oxygenate compounds extracted with alcohol. And the insolubility and density of terpenes is more annoying problem where as removing them makes a more stable, uniform product with a decent flavour.
@@Artofdrink I appreciate the help! I'm actually formulating for legal cannabis drinks and the polysorbate usage is really interesting bc I'm essentially doing the same thing with the cannabinoids in it to solubilize those, but they take a bit more energy and usually multiple emulsifiers (ultrasonic homogenization). I'm going to experiment with actually just adding oils directly into the cannabinoid emulsion instead as it's stable long term
@@Artofdrink is there a way to do both? can emulsifiers also be used with an alcohol solution? when I use alcohol/glycerine/warm water technique with orange oil and then blend with chalk, almost half the original oil separates out. Can I add some sucrose esters or something during the blending process to get more of the oil to stay in solution? For reference, the essence I am referencing is: 25 ml sweet orange oil, 35 ml grapefruit oil, 1 ml citral, 18 ml glycerine, 280 ml ethanol, stir, add 120 ml warm water, stir, blend with chalk, filter, put in separating funnel...
If I understand the point here, you have just made an essence using water, emulsified essential oils using the technique demoed, and depending on the essence you just made, you would now be adding that to a simple syrup for example to flavor a soda--all without the use of alcohol which was the goal. Do I have that right?
Just a comment, mayonnaise is technically an oil in water emulsion with substantially more oil than water. It is the relative paucity of the continuous phase that makes the emulsion thick.
Been waiting so long for this one. Amazing content!
le plaisir et les notes que je prends, I mean this is gold, thank you so much for these awwwwesome videos!!!
Wonderful stuff, as always!
Amazing video! :) Thanks for everything you do.
Great video thank you. I would love to combine these ideas with the energy drink video! :)
Great work as always!
As always, awesome video Darcy !
Quick question, will you ever make a video on cocktail foamers using polysorbate 80? It’s a surfactant so I figured it could be used to make cocktail foamers diy.
I've added it to my list. Not sure when I'll get to it, but hopefully soon.
Great as always, thanks!
Glad you enjoyed it!
thanks
Awesome! Is this how they add flavors to electrolyte powders?
Thanks, yes it is one of the ways they can add flavours to powders. They often also just use partially water soluble flavour compounds (e.g. orange aldehydes, etc.) that dissolve in water at low levels, but still at a level that is intense enough to taste. This is often why certain flavours don't necessarily taste natural, but close enough.
@@Artofdrink cool, are you planning on making an electrolyte powder/drink mix video? Or are there any books/videos you recommend on the subject?
With what do you bring up to volume?? Distilled water?? 🫡💯thank you so much for the time and energy and knowledge you spread ✌️😎
Yes, water. And thanks.
Great video, and I'm glad to have signed up for your Patreon. Since you mention Buchner funnels: I purchased the vacuum filtration kit from hBARSCI for doing this kind of filtering, and their kit works very poorly. The pump works well, but almost all of the vacuum pressure is lost within the flask-funnel setup. I can generate 60 psi by plugging the pump outlet and pumping once, but I can't generate more that 5 psi attached to the flask. The process is only slightly faster than coffee filters and gravity. Can you suggest a Buchner setup that actually works?
Curious to see it after filtering
It looks like skimmed milk, but has a really good aroma.
the mention about how the patreon donors impact the content was nice :)
I've been wondering why magnesium carbonate is the preferred salt for these processes. Is there any reason why calcium carbonate would not work just as well?
I've thought about that as well and I don't have an answer, but it could be that calcium carbonate acts differently in water. Climbers chalk is almost exclusively magnesium carbonate probably for the same reasons pharmacists use it for emulsification. Pharmacists also used finely ground pumice stone to emulsify as well, it has the benefit of not reacting with acids like the carbonated do.
So in all, emulsification is important because it makes the drink more palatable? Also, can you emulsify essential oil, water and extracts as well?
Yes, emulsification helps improve flavour/aroma but also keeps things stable (the oil doesn't separate out). And yes, you can use essential oils, extracts or other flavour compounds with this technique.
Hey all I have the syrup for my drink perfected . Do I still need to go thru the commercial formulation? That is expensive and as a start up I want to avoid unnecessary costs. Can I skip the commercial formulation and go directly to co packer?
No you do not need to use a commercial formulator. Contact a copacker and they should be able to help you commercialize your syrup.
@@Artofdrink thank you friend
Hello again Darcy, Shall we add sodium benzoate to the emulsion for shelf life? Have you tried citric acid or sodium benzoate before?
Regards
Potassium sorbate would work and for sodium benzoate you would have to adjust the pH below 4 and you can use citric acid to do that.
Does Magnesium Carbonate affect the flavor of the concentrate or the final product? Wouldn't a person who has good taste buds taste the chalkiness?
Does any of the polysorbates give a soapy taste? I've tasted some yogurt that has a soapy taste, maybe they used some kind of soapy emulsifier.
The magnesium carbonated is filtered out, so doesn't appear in the final product. It is also insoluble in water so it doesn't affect the final drink. And some emulsifiers taste soapy, but Polysorbate 60 and 80 have mild flavours, and when used at appropriate levels you can't really taste them. Though some people can be sensitive to certain taste, most people won't notice.
So what is the difference in end results from emulsification with something like polysorbates versus making an essense with alcohol?
The chemist in me is screaming that the terpenes you seperated from the water alcohol layer in the essence video have to now be a different flavor profile as a result of the seperation than using this method which encompasses all the terpenes.
So I guess my question is if I make an orange oil essence with alcohol, water and glycerin and then make an emulsion with orange oil like this video, how will the ending flavors differ? Is one method going to be more desireable than the other?
Terpenes add some aroma, though not as much as the oxygenate compounds extracted with alcohol. And the insolubility and density of terpenes is more annoying problem where as removing them makes a more stable, uniform product with a decent flavour.
@@Artofdrink I appreciate the help!
I'm actually formulating for legal cannabis drinks and the polysorbate usage is really interesting bc I'm essentially doing the same thing with the cannabinoids in it to solubilize those, but they take a bit more energy and usually multiple emulsifiers (ultrasonic homogenization). I'm going to experiment with actually just adding oils directly into the cannabinoid emulsion instead as it's stable long term
@@Artofdrink is there a way to do both? can emulsifiers also be used with an alcohol solution?
when I use alcohol/glycerine/warm water technique with orange oil and then blend with chalk, almost half the original oil separates out. Can I add some sucrose esters or something during the blending process to get more of the oil to stay in solution?
For reference, the essence I am referencing is: 25 ml sweet orange oil, 35 ml grapefruit oil, 1 ml citral, 18 ml glycerine, 280 ml ethanol, stir, add 120 ml warm water, stir, blend with chalk, filter, put in separating funnel...
If I understand the point here, you have just made an essence using water, emulsified essential oils using the technique demoed, and depending on the essence you just made, you would now be adding that to a simple syrup for example to flavor a soda--all without the use of alcohol which was the goal. Do I have that right?
You have interpreted everything perfectly! That is precisely what this video was about.
@@Artofdrink but what is the quantity of this mixture that goes into simple syrup ?
Mango,flavour
It hurts me to know that drink just got tossed instead of fixed....
Sacrifices needed to be made!