Basically, Tarkin wanted all funding for the Death Star project. The faster he can take funds away from other projects, the faster he can have his Death Star program up and running. You see his obsession to get the Death Star running all over the canon. Thrawn’s Tie Defenders, the Clone Army, and any other beneficial program he overlooked along with Palpatine because “big intimating weapon go brrrerr.” They wanted a quick and easy fix to any rebellion problem, yet contributed to it. Tie Defenders would’ve crushed all the rebellion fleet. Clone armies can be made to be completely subservient to the empire as the chips have proven so with modifications could’ve made not only completely efficient, but also lacking the free will to leave. An efficient army of clones beats the rebels always. The Empire almost reflects our society. We want quick and easy fixes for everything. But more of us need to think wholistic about our health and what’s better in the long run
This was actually much before the Death Star was being made in earnest. As I recall, Tarkin was actually opposed to the Death Star project in Disney canon until Krennic succeeded in getting the main weapon off the ground, at which point Tarkin not only switched positions on the matter but ousted Krennic and made the Death Star his pet project. The Empire didn’t want clones because the one who programs the clones has all the power. Palpatine used that to his advantage with order 66. But he doesn’t want someone to do the same with him, since who knows if the next batch of clones are programmed to turn against him.
@@daringbastian19 the Geonosians designed the main structure, but the planet destroying laser was designed by Galen Erso under duress from Krennic during the events of Rogue One. Tarkin wasn’t interested in the Death Star until the laser was added.
Well…not really. Consider this, the clones turned on the Jedi, with a simple phrase. How could such an army be trust, what if newer batches were made with the same protocol, but instead of Jedi it was empire they turned on.
nope, it's wasn't a mistake. Actually, it's a big plus. Because with Imperial propaganda, conscripting those who believe in the Empire, it would bring a huge influence. People will see their relatives, friends or anyone else go and become a soldier, which makes them trust empire more. And clones maybe were effective, but people of the galaxy hated them. They've seen them aa those who bring war after Clone War. They're symbol of Clone Wars. Palpatine did a really smart thing, along with other plenty of smart things he did.
Clones are far more expensive to train and grow than regular men and retire far earlier whilst basically being useless to the galactic economy when they do (thus increasing the cost). Not to mention devided loyalties to Kemeno, the fact it gives the cloners alot of influence and power over the empire and also makes the empire seem like a foriegn occupying power instead of a galactic goverment for all it's citizens
@Solkard probably they could reduce at 60-80% and at least fulfill the cost for a period of time of 7 years that is the time required to make an overall competent officer. By that time, its enough time to change the production from soldiers to other uses.
Yes but then the empire would be competent and a worthy opponent that would take decades of gorilla, then decades of full on war to push into an armasist. And we aren't watching legends.
Clones are way better than stormtroopers. Granted, they cost a lot to make. But come on the empire got money in the bank. Clones could take down the rebels with ease.
I'd actual disagree with the idea that the clones would deal with the rebels with ease. The rebels aren't the separatist. The separatist fought a conventional conflict against the clone army were as the rebels were a partisan force. Most of the empires military forces weren't being spent directly fighting like the republic but it was being spent occupying planets, in part due to Palpatines goal to centralise power causing a greater demand in man power. It's alot easier to occupy planets using a conscript army made up of fellow citizens than it is to do so with a foriegn army of clones. Not to mention that the clone army and it's cost wouldn't be large enough to defend the empire and fulfil all the occupation duties. This would have allowed the rebels far greater ability to recruit and mobilise forces and ment the empire would have greater issues aserting force
@@baileygregory9192 gorilla but if you remember battlefront 2 from 2005 do you know clone troopers wore Stormtroopers armour. And they did fought in that game. But I do see your point though
@andrestinoco8922 oh yeah, I definitely preferred how that game handled it. But it does make sense why the clone army eventually turned to a conscript one. Clones are just alot more expensive and only able to be cloned in a handful of facilities by kamenon specialist. Had the empire stuck with a solely clone army they wouldn't have met the increase need for man power and would have thus still lost the war.
Tarkin in this case is right. The people saying the empire should've kept the clones do not understand that the Clones were specifically made to fight the Clone Wars. They were an expensive and immediate solution designed to fight a high intensity conflict against the enemies of the republic/palpatine. They were not designed for long-term garrison duties keeping order in a vast stellar empire. Also the clones were tied to Kamino directly and it would be easy to affect the flow of troops to the empire. Where Palpatine and Tarkin made a mistake is investing countless resources into a gigantic strategic weapons platform that only a strongman dictator would think is useful because it tickles their willy and they don't know that things are far easier to blow up than keep safe. WMDs are not that hard and don't reduce the planet to space dust.
I don’t believe it would be that easy to affect the flow of clone troopers the empire had vast amounts of credits they could surely have invested heavily into a planetary defense fleet above Kamino. And could have tightened up security in Tipoca city. But besides this point recruiting soldiers was a genius idea because it gave people on distant backwater worlds the chance to have a better life and get paid more. In return the Empire could save cost and have legions of loyal troops but the clones could have done the same if not better
@@dariuswong9764 The ways the numbers of clone troops could be affected: 1. Kaminoan discontent with the Empire which living under essentially 24/7 military occupation will do that. 2. The supply chain going back to one planet that could easily be severed by fleet blockades or transport raiders. It would also make getting troops from one end of the galaxy to another harder. 3. A hostile side orbitally bombing the planet to oblivion.
This reminds me of a scene from Breaking Bad. Walter White says the German’s biggest gun in WW2, the Gustav, was a powerful weapon. All it’d take to destroy it, is a bit of thermite and the whole thing stops working/is destroyed. A glass cannon was a poor investment. Thrawn recognized this, and instead opted for many guns across the galaxy pointed at every Rebel. Palpatine, in his arrogance and hubris, disagreed.
"Your contracts were with the Republic, which no longer exists." But you would still be bound by those contracts. The Empire is the successor state to the Republic and thus under normal diplomatic circumstance, aka recognition wise, would inherit all of their agreements and contracts. So, the Empire should still be contractually bound to produce more clones. Obviously, practically it doesnt mean much since this is the Empire and they don't care but...still.
I once read a good fiction that ran the opposite idea: If the Republic no longer exists, then Kamino is ko longer bound by its contracts, and the clone army reverts to their ownership. And wouldn’t that be nice, they just proved that nifty chip works really well. Time for a little coup Aka: Kamino goes “you don’t want to pay us anymore? Fine, but our contract said to provide an army to protect the republic from all enemies. And you just said that the empire is an enemy of the republic. We will use this nice little chip and the excuse you just gave us, overthrow the empire, restore the senate, and install ourself as Chancellor. Then we will see if the newly restore republic wants to pay us.”
@@JABN97 I like the idea, but would never have worked. I don't think the Chips could be reprogramed remotely to include an order to overthrow the Empire. If they were to try to send most clones back to Kamino to recalibrate their chips, the Empire would probably notice.
@ that story worked on the assumption that they could use 1 of the existing contingency orders for this purpose. I don’t think we ever got a complete list of those
This is where we see the true cracks in Tarkin's armor. He was too proud as a leader and too ignorant as an officer to actually believe that the clones were all exceptional soldiers. He believed that any run-of-the-mill conscripted soldier could perform the job of the clones because he had never seen conscripted soldiers, but had seen clones fight. When in fact we all knew the truth that every clone trooper was basically the equivalent to a United States Marine in our world with Arc Troopers being like Army Rangers and Clone Commandos being Navy Seals.
I'd argue tarkin is right. Like why on earth would u need an entire army of elite spoilders when 80% of them will just be peace keeping and not fighting. The empire needed an army to maintain order and fight localised partisans not to fight a full scale near peer conflict. The empire needed a larger army so that it could replace planetary militatia of the republic and centralise the state. This means they need far more manpower than the republic ever did and that they need high retention among their soilders. The clones are ill suited to this as they are far more expensive, and due to their faster aging would need to be replaced alot faster (also increasing cost). Not to mention the limited amounts of facilities able to grow them making continuing the clone army logistical undeniable. Not to mention the it would also create a rival power Base in kamino that might turn against the emperor. I'd say how they handled the transition form clone to conscript army was pretty bad but the idea was good and pretty much the only way to achieve the emperors political policy
Nah Tarkin was right for multiple reasons >clones are expensive ans limited in number >clones are not citizens, they are porperty >clones showed signs of shifting loyalty, they questioned if what they did was a good thing, and rebel clones doesn't sound like a good idea. Pros of conscripts >you bring citizens into the imperial machine as well as their family, like any military. >you can have a lot, and i do mean a lot. Also stormtroopers are the ones that are like the mariens, not the clones.
Tarkin was actually mroe right than you would think. Remember one of the clones tried to punch a droid... Importantly the big battles in starwars usually are won or lost in space by the time of the empire.
If only the kaminoans are smart enough to put an override code and all of those chips they made then they could use that to seize control of the current imperial army they could use it to reinstate democracy which would get them a lot of political favor or they could just use it for an empire in their own right
This is exactly why Palpatine didn’t want to use clones anymore. They were TOO good, and with no other major power in the galaxy to oppose the Empire, the clones would have been a bigger threat to the Empire than they would have been beneficial. All it takes is one unnoticed change in the code of the clones, and they could have been used to turn on Palpatine like the Jedi.
If only the Kaminoans are smart enough what do you mean the Kaminoans literally created the entire army with a single dna how could you say enough smart the blood is smart for the own self
I seriously never understood why they didn’t just use clones as their shock troopers considering they’re well versed in exactly what the empire needed. Like scale back production, update the training and change to the commando template and you’re good.
Tarkin was right, conscripted soldiers are cheaper to produce. The issue is that the troopers in question would not have the proper training nor equipment to maintain their order, which led to the Rebellion
That was the Empires down fall. Because they believed in numbers with their big egos, but if they just made more clones and made their inhibitor chips stronger they would have probably one the war. Skills always outmatch numbers
You hit the nail on the head: they're too smart. They just spent several years trouncing all other armed forces put up against the Republic. If the control chip was ever rendered useless (clone force 99), the clone army would overrun any other force that could be deployed against them. Conscripted soldiers are cheaper, can be moulded through academy training and re-education, and most come with a natural control lever: their families.
Multiple reasons. Firstly being too expensive. After the empire formed, they were still very shaky and unstable as they still had to finish mopping up the rest of clown wars and putting down rebellions. To clone the necessary troops needed would've bankrupted the early empire. Next was to build a faithful populace to the empire. By conscripting citizens this helped build a relationship between the empire and it's citizens. It's also useful propaganda to phase out the clones since they were the main force of the Republic army, while the citizens defended the empire. Then you have the senate. The senate would be skeptical of having a basically glamorized private military only faithful to the emperor and lot to the empire as a whole. Then you have paranoia. Palplatine didn't what the kaminos did to the Jedi, do to him.
"The skill level and efficiency of our clones is far superior to that of any recruited body." This statement made by Lama Su in The Bad Batch couldn't be much further from the truth about Imperial Stormtroopers. In truth, a conscripted soldier of the newly formed Empire is no match for the superiority of a Kaminoan Clone Trooper, in terms of accuracy.
Its not just about troop quality. If the Kaminoans could make an army for the Republic/Empire, they could make an equally good if not better army for someone else. In Legends this happend. The Kaminoans started builging Anti-Imperial clone units, but in Canon, the Empire decided to nip it in the bud before the Kaminoans could even try.
in legends at least The Kaminones launched a fairly successful rebellion against the empire, stopped only by Darth Vader and his loyalist. the Kaminones were very good at keeping their secrets to death. also Clones aged too quick for garrison too.
To some extent, it does make sense. There is no longer a well organized and equipped enemy to fight, so your soldiers don’t need to be as high quality, in fact, since they’re basically just a police force, they’re presence and equipment is really the only important thing. There’s probably also a reputation of clones to consider at this point. They were a Republic army, and they are probably perceived as ‘other’ by citizens of the Empire, and perhaps the whole jedi situation could have called their loyalty into question for some. Conscripts lack that direct association with the Republic, and recruiting peacekeepers from the population probably makes it easier for them to be obeyed by the general population, whereas clones would be easier to resent and be defiant against.
Tarkin: "I think clones are not needed anymore" Kaminoans: "You do realize how much better our clones are when compared to conscripted men?" Tarkin: "Meh. I don't care about that, I care about money."
Please remember, before Disney and as shown in Andor, the Storm Troopers were actually the elite soldiers of the Empire and given better training and equipment than the standard Imperial trooper.
Maybe have the empire focus on your average run of the mill cannon fodder, and have Kamino focus on special forces only like Clone Commandos and ARC Troopers
See, the cost made sense. What didn’t make sense was immediately phasing the clones out instead of keeping them on, letting them serve until their accelerated life spans prevented this. This decision led to the Stormtrooper Corps being far less capable than it rightly should have been, especially in the early years.
Imagine if the empire didn't care about funding and instead wanted the win. You could've had billions of clones, sent a million to each planet and had total control whatsoever.
And funny enough, the Prime Minister would be proven right. One of the greatest flaws that brought down the Empire, was cutting corners for a lower cost. In the later years of the war, as we see in Rebels, some Imperials really wanted to do right by the people. Show respect and loyalty to their peers. Thrawn, shared such ideals, and would’ve been the successor the Empire needed and deserved. As he wasn’t beholden to the cultish ways of the Sith. He’d have disagreed and proved Tarkin wrong here. He truly was the Empire’s heir.
Corrupt military is easier to control with fear and bribes. Once you already have the ultimate power, making everyone else weaker benefits you greatly.
I'd rather mixture formations both Clone and Conscription soldier's and even if must needed to lower funding of Clones then by The Force so be it Imperial Droids will be mustered a full battalion ofB-1 Battle droids in the colours of the Empire to keep Law and Order at area's of high quality and Value alongside Imperial Clones. Tarkan was a fool relying of a singular super weapon you should always become prepared when some Dust Farm Boy will come along and destroy the Super weapon.
We often talk about the clones but what about the camino their entire species almost me got extinct thankfully there's some who survive around the world
I love how people are saying this was the biggest mistake the Empire made, when really it was probably the best choice they made. Yes, clone troopers were way more skilled and effective than any stormtrooper, however there was no other major power in the galaxy that could oppose the Empire, so having expensive top of the line soldiers made no sense. What the Empire lacked in skill they made up for in superior technology and raw numbers. Plus, a new order could have also been planted in the clones to make them turn on the officers or the Emperor himself, so keeping them was a great risk to Palpatine and the Empire as a whole.
Logically it makes sense cis was defeated so are the Jedi there really no legitimate enemies standing against the empire now you might have rebels and riots to fight against but those only form at the lack of military presence so have 2 recruited storm troopers are better then 1 clone plus storm troopers last twice as long plus having storm troopers means your hiring locals providing wages to the civilian population and rely on kamino alone to provide your man power limits the new empire power.
I can't say anything about the Mouse and Keyboard perspective for I am a console pleb. COD has historically had pretty strong aim assist compared to other games. So if a PC Player faces a sweaty controller player I can see the disadvantage it provides. I myself am VERY far from being called a good player, so I can safely say that withoug that Aim assist, my chances of killing a PC player go from "maybe" to "nah". But I will say, the idea of a KBM user struggling against a controller user is very cathartic to me. Because for Games with crossplay without or with a very nerfed aim assist, KBM users will always have the advantage. That's the concensus between me and my friends, including the PC friend! Without crossplay, we couldn't play, but because of crossplay we struggle a lot more! The only game my PC Friend likes on controller is "Warface" because it does 99% of the Aiming for you!
Always funny to see writers attempt to make sense of this narrative. In reality, the only reason The Empire stopped using clones is because Clones and The Clone Wars hadnt been conceived of at the time of the original trilogy. Had George Lucas known at the time of the original, Clones would have stayed the entire time. There is literally no logical argument against keeping them.
There are lots of arguments actually, the clones were vastly expensive, even throughout the war they had issues with the costs of the clones, the war spent far too many resources, the clones had the same tendencies of many Jedi, they would disregard orders in order to save others, they had a lot of individuality, something the Empire did not want with their troopers.
@@LordUzaki it's still explained that clones were in the realm of star wars via the name of the war so they were very much apart of it even at the start.
Palpatine was too sure of himself and probably did not forsee a rebellion, or at least did not for see a rebellion so near in the future and thus made the choice to cut cost on the military after a war put the Republic on the brink of bankruptcy. Palpatine may have been masterminding the clone wars but once that was over he left himself open to actual, legitimate descent and probably wasn't well suited for fighting a conflict that he wasn't secretly manipulating both sides of
I'm not sure the rebellion was as large of a problem that early on, they were pretty much on the brink of defeat until the main OT cast got involved right?
@@GreaterGrievobeast55yeah, the Rebellion took a lot of time to actually take off, they had small victories, sure, but nothing that worried the Empire until much, much later, until eventually they started gaining sympathisers, experience, courage, and even with all of that they almost lost until the destruction of the Death Star
Basically, Tarkin wanted all funding for the Death Star project. The faster he can take funds away from other projects, the faster he can have his Death Star program up and running. You see his obsession to get the Death Star running all over the canon. Thrawn’s Tie Defenders, the Clone Army, and any other beneficial program he overlooked along with Palpatine because “big intimating weapon go brrrerr.” They wanted a quick and easy fix to any rebellion problem, yet contributed to it. Tie Defenders would’ve crushed all the rebellion fleet. Clone armies can be made to be completely subservient to the empire as the chips have proven so with modifications could’ve made not only completely efficient, but also lacking the free will to leave. An efficient army of clones beats the rebels always. The Empire almost reflects our society. We want quick and easy fixes for everything. But more of us need to think wholistic about our health and what’s better in the long run
This was actually much before the Death Star was being made in earnest. As I recall, Tarkin was actually opposed to the Death Star project in Disney canon until Krennic succeeded in getting the main weapon off the ground, at which point Tarkin not only switched positions on the matter but ousted Krennic and made the Death Star his pet project. The Empire didn’t want clones because the one who programs the clones has all the power. Palpatine used that to his advantage with order 66. But he doesn’t want someone to do the same with him, since who knows if the next batch of clones are programmed to turn against him.
@@alexschorr9551Death Star plans were made in the attack of the clones
@@daringbastian19 the Geonosians designed the main structure, but the planet destroying laser was designed by Galen Erso under duress from Krennic during the events of Rogue One. Tarkin wasn’t interested in the Death Star until the laser was added.
This was one of the first mistakes of many that led the empire to ruin.
Well…not really. Consider this, the clones turned on the Jedi, with a simple phrase. How could such an army be trust, what if newer batches were made with the same protocol, but instead of Jedi it was empire they turned on.
Not really, since the clones were massively expensive.
nope, it's wasn't a mistake. Actually, it's a big plus. Because with Imperial propaganda, conscripting those who believe in the Empire, it would bring a huge influence. People will see their relatives, friends or anyone else go and become a soldier, which makes them trust empire more. And clones maybe were effective, but people of the galaxy hated them. They've seen them aa those who bring war after Clone War. They're symbol of Clone Wars. Palpatine did a really smart thing, along with other plenty of smart things he did.
With the cost of the clones and how fast they would get old, this would seem like a unecessarily expensive measure
Clones are far more expensive to train and grow than regular men and retire far earlier whilst basically being useless to the galactic economy when they do (thus increasing the cost).
Not to mention devided loyalties to Kemeno, the fact it gives the cloners alot of influence and power over the empire and also makes the empire seem like a foriegn occupying power instead of a galactic goverment for all it's citizens
They could keep production to produce elite soldiers as officers.
That way you have the better training to recluits.
Would not be cost effective for the Kaminoans to scale production down to that scale.
@Solkard probably they could reduce at 60-80% and at least fulfill the cost for a period of time of 7 years that is the time required to make an overall competent officer. By that time, its enough time to change the production from soldiers to other uses.
They kept a lot of clone vets to train newer recruits.
Yes but then the empire would be competent and a worthy opponent that would take decades of gorilla, then decades of full on war to push into an armasist. And we aren't watching legends.
They did kept some clone vets, but the problem was the clones’ loyalty and readiness to war.
They aren’t that great for brainwashing.
Clones are way better than stormtroopers. Granted, they cost a lot to make. But come on the empire got money in the bank. Clones could take down the rebels with ease.
Yeh but what if the clones are the rebels following the orders of say there creators.
I'd actual disagree with the idea that the clones would deal with the rebels with ease.
The rebels aren't the separatist. The separatist fought a conventional conflict against the clone army were as the rebels were a partisan force.
Most of the empires military forces weren't being spent directly fighting like the republic but it was being spent occupying planets, in part due to Palpatines goal to centralise power causing a greater demand in man power.
It's alot easier to occupy planets using a conscript army made up of fellow citizens than it is to do so with a foriegn army of clones.
Not to mention that the clone army and it's cost wouldn't be large enough to defend the empire and fulfil all the occupation duties. This would have allowed the rebels far greater ability to recruit and mobilise forces and ment the empire would have greater issues aserting force
@@AbyRemy FairPoint
@@baileygregory9192 gorilla but if you remember battlefront 2 from 2005 do you know clone troopers wore Stormtroopers armour. And they did fought in that game. But I do see your point though
@andrestinoco8922 oh yeah, I definitely preferred how that game handled it. But it does make sense why the clone army eventually turned to a conscript one. Clones are just alot more expensive and only able to be cloned in a handful of facilities by kamenon specialist.
Had the empire stuck with a solely clone army they wouldn't have met the increase need for man power and would have thus still lost the war.
They were building that new fancy space station. Makes sense that they were trying to cut costs.
which is call as a lifestar
@@sutansinaga2573 did the opposite of that. It was called the deathball
@@sutansinaga2573You mean deathstar which is its actual name.
@@teamofone1219no im pretty sure it was called lifeball (i hope you understand)
Tarkin in this case is right. The people saying the empire should've kept the clones do not understand that the Clones were specifically made to fight the Clone Wars. They were an expensive and immediate solution designed to fight a high intensity conflict against the enemies of the republic/palpatine. They were not designed for long-term garrison duties keeping order in a vast stellar empire. Also the clones were tied to Kamino directly and it would be easy to affect the flow of troops to the empire. Where Palpatine and Tarkin made a mistake is investing countless resources into a gigantic strategic weapons platform that only a strongman dictator would think is useful because it tickles their willy and they don't know that things are far easier to blow up than keep safe. WMDs are not that hard and don't reduce the planet to space dust.
I don’t believe it would be that easy to affect the flow of clone troopers the empire had vast amounts of credits they could surely have invested heavily into a planetary defense fleet above Kamino. And could have tightened up security in Tipoca city.
But besides this point recruiting soldiers was a genius idea because it gave people on distant backwater worlds the chance to have a better life and get paid more. In return the Empire could save cost and have legions of loyal troops but the clones could have done the same if not better
@@dariuswong9764 The ways the numbers of clone troops could be affected:
1. Kaminoan discontent with the Empire which living under essentially 24/7 military occupation will do that.
2. The supply chain going back to one planet that could easily be severed by fleet blockades or transport raiders. It would also make getting troops from one end of the galaxy to another harder.
3. A hostile side orbitally bombing the planet to oblivion.
This reminds me of a scene from Breaking Bad. Walter White says the German’s biggest gun in WW2, the Gustav, was a powerful weapon. All it’d take to destroy it, is a bit of thermite and the whole thing stops working/is destroyed. A glass cannon was a poor investment. Thrawn recognized this, and instead opted for many guns across the galaxy pointed at every Rebel. Palpatine, in his arrogance and hubris, disagreed.
uh, no
"Your contracts were with the Republic, which no longer exists." But you would still be bound by those contracts. The Empire is the successor state to the Republic and thus under normal diplomatic circumstance, aka recognition wise, would inherit all of their agreements and contracts. So, the Empire should still be contractually bound to produce more clones. Obviously, practically it doesnt mean much since this is the Empire and they don't care but...still.
Also, were the Kaminoians paid or Palpatine used this tactic as an excuse to not pay for any and all debts that the Empire inherited?
I once read a good fiction that ran the opposite idea:
If the Republic no longer exists, then Kamino is ko longer bound by its contracts, and the clone army reverts to their ownership. And wouldn’t that be nice, they just proved that nifty chip works really well.
Time for a little coup
Aka: Kamino goes “you don’t want to pay us anymore? Fine, but our contract said to provide an army to protect the republic from all enemies. And you just said that the empire is an enemy of the republic. We will use this nice little chip and the excuse you just gave us, overthrow the empire, restore the senate, and install ourself as Chancellor.
Then we will see if the newly restore republic wants to pay us.”
@@JABN97 I like the idea, but would never have worked. I don't think the Chips could be reprogramed remotely to include an order to overthrow the Empire. If they were to try to send most clones back to Kamino to recalibrate their chips, the Empire would probably notice.
@ that story worked on the assumption that they could use 1 of the existing contingency orders for this purpose. I don’t think we ever got a complete list of those
This is where we see the true cracks in Tarkin's armor. He was too proud as a leader and too ignorant as an officer to actually believe that the clones were all exceptional soldiers. He believed that any run-of-the-mill conscripted soldier could perform the job of the clones because he had never seen conscripted soldiers, but had seen clones fight. When in fact we all knew the truth that every clone trooper was basically the equivalent to a United States Marine in our world with Arc Troopers being like Army Rangers and Clone Commandos being Navy Seals.
I'd argue tarkin is right. Like why on earth would u need an entire army of elite spoilders when 80% of them will just be peace keeping and not fighting.
The empire needed an army to maintain order and fight localised partisans not to fight a full scale near peer conflict.
The empire needed a larger army so that it could replace planetary militatia of the republic and centralise the state.
This means they need far more manpower than the republic ever did and that they need high retention among their soilders.
The clones are ill suited to this as they are far more expensive, and due to their faster aging would need to be replaced alot faster (also increasing cost).
Not to mention the limited amounts of facilities able to grow them making continuing the clone army logistical undeniable. Not to mention the it would also create a rival power Base in kamino that might turn against the emperor.
I'd say how they handled the transition form clone to conscript army was pretty bad but the idea was good and pretty much the only way to achieve the emperors political policy
@@baileygregory9192 agree
Nah Tarkin was right for multiple reasons
>clones are expensive ans limited in number
>clones are not citizens, they are porperty
>clones showed signs of shifting loyalty, they questioned if what they did was a good thing, and rebel clones doesn't sound like a good idea.
Pros of conscripts
>you bring citizens into the imperial machine as well as their family, like any military.
>you can have a lot, and i do mean a lot.
Also stormtroopers are the ones that are like the mariens, not the clones.
@@baileygregory9192Yep but keeping some as officers would have been smart or specia units.
Instead they wasted money on dark trooper programs.
Tarkin was actually mroe right than you would think. Remember one of the clones tried to punch a droid...
Importantly the big battles in starwars usually are won or lost in space by the time of the empire.
If only the kaminoans are smart enough to put an override code and all of those chips they made then they could use that to seize control of the current imperial army they could use it to reinstate democracy which would get them a lot of political favor or they could just use it for an empire in their own right
This is exactly why Palpatine didn’t want to use clones anymore. They were TOO good, and with no other major power in the galaxy to oppose the Empire, the clones would have been a bigger threat to the Empire than they would have been beneficial. All it takes is one unnoticed change in the code of the clones, and they could have been used to turn on Palpatine like the Jedi.
If only the Kaminoans are smart enough what do you mean the Kaminoans literally created the entire army with a single dna how could you say enough smart the blood is smart for the own self
@@joemaranot8197 Yet they weren't smart enough to predict sidious was going to double cross them
Man, Stephen Stanton really captures the pronunciations of Peter Cushing.
I seriously never understood why they didn’t just use clones as their shock troopers considering they’re well versed in exactly what the empire needed. Like scale back production, update the training and change to the commando template and you’re good.
Tarkin was right, conscripted soldiers are cheaper to produce. The issue is that the troopers in question would not have the proper training nor equipment to maintain their order, which led to the Rebellion
That was the Empires down fall. Because they believed in numbers with their big egos, but if they just made more clones and made their inhibitor chips stronger they would have probably one the war. Skills always outmatch numbers
I genuinely don’t get why the Empire didn’t keep the clones around. They’re ten times smarter than any stormtroopers we’ve seen.
Tarkin said it already. Too expensive.
If Palpatine could create a Secret order to kill the Jedi, someone else could create a Secret order to kill him.
It boils down to palpatine being paranoid.
You hit the nail on the head: they're too smart. They just spent several years trouncing all other armed forces put up against the Republic. If the control chip was ever rendered useless (clone force 99), the clone army would overrun any other force that could be deployed against them. Conscripted soldiers are cheaper, can be moulded through academy training and re-education, and most come with a natural control lever: their families.
Multiple reasons. Firstly being too expensive. After the empire formed, they were still very shaky and unstable as they still had to finish mopping up the rest of clown wars and putting down rebellions. To clone the necessary troops needed would've bankrupted the early empire. Next was to build a faithful populace to the empire. By conscripting citizens this helped build a relationship between the empire and it's citizens. It's also useful propaganda to phase out the clones since they were the main force of the Republic army, while the citizens defended the empire. Then you have the senate. The senate would be skeptical of having a basically glamorized private military only faithful to the emperor and lot to the empire as a whole. Then you have paranoia. Palplatine didn't what the kaminos did to the Jedi, do to him.
A volunteer army is fine with proper training and equipment. But the empire didnt care about those details.
Imagine how F'ed the rebels would've been against Clones
"The skill level and efficiency of our clones is far superior to that of any recruited body."
This statement made by Lama Su in The Bad Batch couldn't be much further from the truth about Imperial Stormtroopers. In truth, a conscripted soldier of the newly formed Empire is no match for the superiority of a Kaminoan Clone Trooper, in terms of accuracy.
Even a half-trained clone would be more effective in combat than some average Joe pulled off the street.
Its not just about troop quality. If the Kaminoans could make an army for the Republic/Empire, they could make an equally good if not better army for someone else. In Legends this happend. The Kaminoans started builging Anti-Imperial clone units, but in Canon, the Empire decided to nip it in the bud before the Kaminoans could even try.
Alright fine, I'll rewatch the clone wars
Tarkan was a fool should have kept the Clones
Who's Tarkan?
in legends at least The Kaminones launched a fairly successful rebellion against the empire, stopped only by Darth Vader and his loyalist. the Kaminones were very good at keeping their secrets to death. also Clones aged too quick for garrison too.
To some extent, it does make sense. There is no longer a well organized and equipped enemy to fight, so your soldiers don’t need to be as high quality, in fact, since they’re basically just a police force, they’re presence and equipment is really the only important thing. There’s probably also a reputation of clones to consider at this point. They were a Republic army, and they are probably perceived as ‘other’ by citizens of the Empire, and perhaps the whole jedi situation could have called their loyalty into question for some. Conscripts lack that direct association with the Republic, and recruiting peacekeepers from the population probably makes it easier for them to be obeyed by the general population, whereas clones would be easier to resent and be defiant against.
Tarkin: "I think clones are not needed anymore"
Kaminoans: "You do realize how much better our clones are when compared to conscripted men?"
Tarkin: "Meh. I don't care about that, I care about money."
Please remember, before Disney and as shown in Andor, the Storm Troopers were actually the elite soldiers of the Empire and given better training and equipment than the standard Imperial trooper.
Maybe have the empire focus on your average run of the mill cannon fodder, and have Kamino focus on special forces only like Clone Commandos and ARC Troopers
If the empire stuck with the clones, the rebellion would be over much much faster
“The strength and efficiency of our clones is far superior to that of any recruited body”
Yeah no kidding
See, the cost made sense. What didn’t make sense was immediately phasing the clones out instead of keeping them on, letting them serve until their accelerated life spans prevented this. This decision led to the Stormtrooper Corps being far less capable than it rightly should have been, especially in the early years.
Imagine if the empire didn't care about funding and instead wanted the win. You could've had billions of clones, sent a million to each planet and had total control whatsoever.
And funny enough, the Prime Minister would be proven right. One of the greatest flaws that brought down the Empire, was cutting corners for a lower cost. In the later years of the war, as we see in Rebels, some Imperials really wanted to do right by the people. Show respect and loyalty to their peers. Thrawn, shared such ideals, and would’ve been the successor the Empire needed and deserved. As he wasn’t beholden to the cultish ways of the Sith. He’d have disagreed and proved Tarkin wrong here. He truly was the Empire’s heir.
Corrupt military is easier to control with fear and bribes. Once you already have the ultimate power, making everyone else weaker benefits you greatly.
Tarkin is no less than a fool
Biggest mistake of The Empire
Yall do know that the empire could of ordered the kaminoans to not charge them anything
Tarkins voice spunds like the voice that announced stuff on 4kids cartoons
Jango gets gene rotted as well so newer clones were ineffective
Yes clones would be far expensive than their newer down grounded worth would be
If the done a mix of clone troopers and Strom troopers the Empire will be far stronger in military might
I'd rather mixture formations both Clone and Conscription soldier's and even if must needed to lower funding of Clones then by The Force so be it Imperial Droids will be mustered a full battalion ofB-1 Battle droids in the colours of the Empire to keep Law and Order at area's of high quality and Value alongside Imperial Clones.
Tarkan was a fool relying of a singular super weapon you should always become prepared when some Dust Farm Boy will come along and destroy the Super weapon.
We often talk about the clones but what about the camino their entire species almost me got extinct thankfully there's some who survive around the world
I love how people are saying this was the biggest mistake the Empire made, when really it was probably the best choice they made.
Yes, clone troopers were way more skilled and effective than any stormtrooper, however there was no other major power in the galaxy that could oppose the Empire, so having expensive top of the line soldiers made no sense. What the Empire lacked in skill they made up for in superior technology and raw numbers.
Plus, a new order could have also been planted in the clones to make them turn on the officers or the Emperor himself, so keeping them was a great risk to Palpatine and the Empire as a whole.
Tarkin was dumb stormtroopers were useless.
Movie name?
The Bad Batch. It has three seasons, 47 episodes total, each episode around 20-30 minutes. The first episode, which this is from, is over an hour long
“The the words are idea every giveaway the clones”👎😔
I hate Tarkin!
Logically it makes sense cis was defeated so are the Jedi there really no legitimate enemies standing against the empire now you might have rebels and riots to fight against but those only form at the lack of military presence so have 2 recruited storm troopers are better then 1 clone plus storm troopers last twice as long plus having storm troopers means your hiring locals providing wages to the civilian population and rely on kamino alone to provide your man power limits the new empire power.
hence why canonically the storm troopers shoot like shit.
I can't say anything about the Mouse and Keyboard perspective for I am a console pleb. COD has historically had pretty strong aim assist compared to other games. So if a PC Player faces a sweaty controller player I can see the disadvantage it provides. I myself am VERY far from being called a good player, so I can safely say that withoug that Aim assist, my chances of killing a PC player go from "maybe" to "nah".
But I will say, the idea of a KBM user struggling against a controller user is very cathartic to me. Because for Games with crossplay without or with a very nerfed aim assist, KBM users will always have the advantage. That's the concensus between me and my friends, including the PC friend! Without crossplay, we couldn't play, but because of crossplay we struggle a lot more! The only game my PC Friend likes on controller is "Warface" because it does 99% of the Aiming for you!
This was a mistake by the empire one of many
How are these from 8 years ago
Always funny to see writers attempt to make sense of this narrative.
In reality, the only reason The Empire stopped using clones is because Clones and The Clone Wars hadnt been conceived of at the time of the original trilogy.
Had George Lucas known at the time of the original, Clones would have stayed the entire time. There is literally no logical argument against keeping them.
There are lots of arguments actually, the clones were vastly expensive, even throughout the war they had issues with the costs of the clones, the war spent far too many resources, the clones had the same tendencies of many Jedi, they would disregard orders in order to save others, they had a lot of individuality, something the Empire did not want with their troopers.
The clone wars is literally mentioned in the first star wars movie ever aka A New Hope
@F3AN0RXINFERN0 Its mentioned, buy the details were not worked out yet. The name was literally as far as it went.
@@LordUzaki it's still explained that clones were in the realm of star wars via the name of the war so they were very much apart of it even at the start.
Wish I had a clone boyfriend ❤❤❤
That would not last long tbf.
@user-us7el6ss2lwhat the person means is that due to the ageing inhancment the clone would not last to long
@@falconcorbin3830however long the clones have to live, that's time that will be cherished.
Palpatine was too sure of himself and probably did not forsee a rebellion, or at least did not for see a rebellion so near in the future and thus made the choice to cut cost on the military after a war put the Republic on the brink of bankruptcy. Palpatine may have been masterminding the clone wars but once that was over he left himself open to actual, legitimate descent and probably wasn't well suited for fighting a conflict that he wasn't secretly manipulating both sides of
I'm not sure the rebellion was as large of a problem that early on, they were pretty much on the brink of defeat until the main OT cast got involved right?
@@GreaterGrievobeast55yeah, the Rebellion took a lot of time to actually take off, they had small victories, sure, but nothing that worried the Empire until much, much later, until eventually they started gaining sympathisers, experience, courage, and even with all of that they almost lost until the destruction of the Death Star
69th comment.
Right. Good for you.