What a year to exploit great ski conditions for the powder hounds, yes Jared? The only point I wish to add to your excellent video is that I believe wide skis are not necessarily the only solution to deep powder. It's all about the surface area of a ski for flotation and that can also come in the form of a long ski to give the same square inches of a surface platform, and practically speaking, there is a potential to extend the length, more and more still. A ski can be longer than it can be wider, regarding its extreme limits. 12 foot long 'long board' ski racers in my 'neck of the woods' will confirm that, and the capable skier can tele-turn them as well. Cheers Jared
Hey Barry! You're absolutely right about a really long and skinnier ski providing a similar surface area in which to remain on top. The famous Snowshoe Thompson, after all, ran some 25 footers when he was delivering mail across the Sierra back in the 1800s :) I had considered mentioning the long, skinny ski option but I just wasn't even sure that people were still using skis that long. The trend across the board (for track and backcountry use) seems to be going for a shorter ski to make it more manageable. But, you're right in that there are most likely still a lot of longer skinny skis out there in circulation and still being used by many. Alas, I can't always think of everything to put in these videos - haha :) And I was hoping to produce so many other videos this season, but it's been the non-stop storm cycle for months, so I just decided to go with it :) Last winter would've been ideal for me to make more videos about skiing in icy conditions (which I actually assumed I'd be making this year), but I'll have to wait until spring for that or for a completely different winter. Now we're in 38-42 degree temps with sleet and rain since last Friday, so we'll see what the snowpack looks like after this storm blows out. At this point, though, everything is saturated and heavy and sloppy. At least the snowbanks around my house are starting to compress a little ;) As always, thanks so much for tuning in and your contributions to the conversations! I love it :)
Longer skis are an absolute liability in denser terrain. At 6'2" in height, I sized my first pair of BC skis like my standard classic ones at 205cm. It's absolutely arduous picking your way through trees with long planks. I've since picked up a pair of 195s and the 10cms less makes a big difference. Having the ideal fit to not over compress the camber isn't as critical for BC skis because you're likely not skiing in a groomed track. I would therefore err on the shorter side, especially if you're taller like myself
@marccharbonneau8511 I agree that a longer ski is definitely a challenge in thick forest and when lots of other natural debris is around. I definitely opt for a shorter ski when given the option. I like the idea, though, that there is the option for a longer skinnier ski when the conditions are appropriate (i.e. wide open fields or undulating low angle open hills). All that said, I'm a lot shorter than you so even a long ski for me will still be a short one for you 😁 Thanks for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation 🤗
Thanks for the reality check of skiing in 3' of untracked snow. Haven't tried it yet, but if I had, I would've thought I was doing something wrong. Your demo of the speed and energy needed is something I've never seen demo'd on YT.
Yep, a whole other experience compared to groomed terrain or even hard-packed snow in the backcountry. I absolutely love it, especially when the trees are flocked with snow. I definitely dial back my mileage when out in deep stuff, though :) Thanks for tuning in, and for the nice feedback! I appreciate it. And I hope we all get enough snow so that we can experience something similar :)
Thank you! As I was doing that, I was actually giving consideration to just making an entire loop around the forest and taking laps on it :) But then I remembered I was capturing footage for the video and had to keep at it - haha!
Great information. Tbh, we only get that kind of snow maybe a couple times of year here, but I really love to ski in those conditions. It can be a lot of work on 100-80-90’s that I have. I really might as well be snowshoeing at that point. It’s all good.
Haha, yeah I'm sure a lot of places don't deal with that deep of snow. But it seems like it's all I've had this winter here in Tahoe. And since that's been the case, I figured I may as well make something related to it because I haven't been able to make many of the other ones that I had originally planned to create (before the non-stop storm cycles took over). It sounds like you have some great skis for deep snow, though! Anyway, thanks so much for watching, and the nice feedback! I appreciate it :)
Hey Jared, happy belated birthday. I see you’re having to do a lot of “stepping” becuase the deeper snow. I recall you saying the vid the snow here was 3’ deep and you had your wider skis. Where I live we rarely get more than 12” in a single storm, and by the time the next storm comes most of that inital snow is gone or packed down. Would you advise looking into wider skis? I currently use Saloman 60 Outback, and there was only one time I’ve had issues with them sinking deep into the snow (it was while crossing a snwdrift. Thanks for all your videos and advice!!!
Hey Andrew! Thanks for the birthday wishes :) Yeah, all last winter was one major snowstorm after another that yielded 1+ feet every time. So, I was doing a lot of what amounted to walking around. At least until I found some steeper hills where I could do some fun downhilling. I think if the skis you already own seem to do the job of keeping you afloat, I probably wouldn't race out to buy a new set of wider skis. That isn't to say that you couldn't find uses for them, particularly in deeper snow when you get the occasional major snowstorm. But, again, if what you have works I'd probably stick with it. All of that said, having a wide set of skis in not-so-deep snow can be fun and really keep you on top of the snow no matter what. But that becomes a slippery slope (pun intended!) when you start to buy multiple pairs of skis. One day you may just find yourself with a dozen sets (like me - ha!), all very specific to one condition or depth of snow. And then you have to store them and maintain them and, essentially, not use them that often because you can only run one set of skis at a time ;) Anyway, I'd probably just stick with what's already working for you. Thanks so much for watching and commenting. And I really appreciate the other support, too :)
Jared, thanks for the video and all the good tips and advice. I'm in my second season of teaching myself to do this "backcountry" style nordic skiing up here in the Mt. Hood, Oregon area. The snow is always deep and I go away from the crowds to make my own tracks. I am using the Fischer 98 Bound skis now with this Alpina Alaska boots. I feel like a wider ski would make travel more efficiently in these deep powder conditions. Any thoughts on the Rossignol XP 120 BC ski? The Xplore bidning/boot system? For those types of conditions. I do some downhills/uphills but stay away from any terrain that could be avalanche territory. I'm just about getting out into nature and exploring it with my dog. Any advice on gear selection, much appreciated.
Thank you for watching, and the kind words :) Those Rossignol XC 120 look pretty beefy! I'm sure they'd handle most deep snow scenarios. I use the S-Bound 112mm in deeper snow, and they mostly work. But when it's over a couple of feet of fresh snow, they still sink a lot. I actually own a pair of Fischer S-Bound 98mm, as well, but when it's deep snow I just grab the 112mm. The 120mm should give you more float, though. Fischer actually used to make some S-Bound 125mm, but I believe they no longer do. I kind of wish they still did because they would be even better in deep stuff. As far as the Xplore bindings and boots go, I just don't have any experience with them. Look for Tom M's UA-cam channel as he's done various reviews on the system. I just don't want to invest in another binding system, so I've been sticking with a basic 3-pin binding or the NNN BC bindings. I'm fine with either of those, and finding all the boots to accommodate them is easier (and less expensive!). That said, I definitely would not go with an NNN BC binding on those 120s. I think it would just be too small for the ski. So, 3-pin or Xplore would be more appropriate. Hopefully that helps. Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification on what I've said here. Again, thanks so much for tuning in and for the question. I appreciate it!
I've found that fish scales don't well in fresh snow, at least not in dry colorado fresh snow. I've tried rubbing blue kick wax in front and behind fish scales. Sometimes almost the entire length of the ski. It does reduce glide, but much better than putting on skins in hilly terrain.
Hey Justin, Thanks so much for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation! That's interesting, though, about not having much success with scale-patterned bases in fresh snow. I have experienced, to one degree or another, shearing on occasion if I'm trying to walk straight up a hill of fresh snow (which then causes me to slide backwards). But then when I change the angle of my skis in a herringbone, for example, I don't have too much problem other than the work it takes to deal with the deeper snow. Yeah, mostly I just change my physical approach if I find that I'm not getting much grip at a certain angle in fresh, deeper snow. I like your idea of adding the grip wax to the mix. I think that's a great use of it in those conditions. You could even apply it to the scale pattern to give some extra grip. Again, thanks for watching and for the feedback. I appreciate it :)
My boots need to be replaced after a good number of years. I have the wider backwoods skis and I believe that the binding and boots are NNN BC (wider bar and grooves). Where do I go to get a new pair boots? Everyone seems to sell the NNN or narower boots. Googling is absolutely no help. Is there a brand or style or company that would be able to recommend me a boot that fits my skis? :-(
Hey Helene, Thanks for tuning in and reaching out! As far as NNN BC boots go, Fischer, Rossignol, and Alpina make a bunch of different versions. And those are top tier xc ski manufacturers, so they have great quality boots. You can find them at retailers/online at REI (www.rei.com/search?q=nnn+bc+boots ) and Backcountry.com (www.backcountry.com/search?s=u&q=nnn+bc+boots ). If you have any local shops, go with them, but maybe you don't if you're having trouble finding options. So maybe just try one of the aforementioned online options (REI or Backcountry.com). I have a handful of different Fischer brand NNN BC boots and I've been really happy with them. Anyway, I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any difficulties trying to narrow down your search. And let me know what you end up buying!
@@JaredManninen Thank you! I am not close to retailers and googling what i need has not been helpful. Some of the main shops are swamped right now and don't answer phones or emails. I don't want to get something that won't fit and I'll have to send it back. I'll try your searches!
@@helenemousseau7498 You're welcome! I've found that a lot of physical stores, regardless of genre, tend to not be great at answering their phones too. It's definitely frustrating. And I agree that buying footwear, specifically, online can be challenging. I've had to ship the occasional shoe/boot back when doing so. At least that's an option, though :)
There’s a plethora of solid information packed in here. I love Autumn but am so jonesing for some snow! My dog is a complete idiot in the snow. We both love it! Although, my widest skis are 100’s, there are just so few days that require 120’s in Wyoming. I think I would opt for a three pin over a NNN BC binding with a 112-125mm ski.
Thanks so much for the feedback, John! Glad you found my info about xc skiing in deep snow relevant/helpful :) I think there are a lot of places in snow country that don't necessarily need xc skis wider than 100mm. And even when there is a dump of multiple feet of powder, a lot of times that snow will consolidate within a few days. Well, at least enough that 100s or narrower would be good enough. That said, last winter (2022-23) in Tahoe was just non-stop deep stuff! I probably could've run a set of backcountry xc skis that were 120+ without thinking twice. haha! But that's definitely not the norm. I'm looking forward to the temperatures dropping and the snow flying as well. But I still have a small laundry list of winterization projects that I need to complete before that happens. So, I'm hoping I have at least a few more weeks of autumn! haha :) Thanks again for tuning in, and for the kind words.
Totally true! However, if you're buying skis for your weight, often you're stuck with the specific length for your weight. And mostly the backcountry xc skis are limited in lengths (generally in the range of 165-195cm). You could buy longer for your weight, but it's always a questionable practice because of the camber issue (i.e. not heavy enough to compress it for grip). Anyway, I probably should've mentioned ski length as a topic of discussion, so thanks for bringing it up :)
What a year to exploit great ski conditions for the powder hounds, yes Jared? The only point I wish to add to your excellent video is that I believe wide skis are not necessarily the only solution to deep powder. It's all about the surface area of a ski for flotation and that can also come in the form of a long ski to give the same square inches of a surface platform, and practically speaking, there is a potential to extend the length, more and more still. A ski can be longer than it can be wider, regarding its extreme limits. 12 foot long 'long board' ski racers in my 'neck of the woods' will confirm that, and the capable skier can tele-turn them as well.
Cheers Jared
Hey Barry!
You're absolutely right about a really long and skinnier ski providing a similar surface area in which to remain on top. The famous Snowshoe Thompson, after all, ran some 25 footers when he was delivering mail across the Sierra back in the 1800s :)
I had considered mentioning the long, skinny ski option but I just wasn't even sure that people were still using skis that long. The trend across the board (for track and backcountry use) seems to be going for a shorter ski to make it more manageable. But, you're right in that there are most likely still a lot of longer skinny skis out there in circulation and still being used by many. Alas, I can't always think of everything to put in these videos - haha :)
And I was hoping to produce so many other videos this season, but it's been the non-stop storm cycle for months, so I just decided to go with it :) Last winter would've been ideal for me to make more videos about skiing in icy conditions (which I actually assumed I'd be making this year), but I'll have to wait until spring for that or for a completely different winter.
Now we're in 38-42 degree temps with sleet and rain since last Friday, so we'll see what the snowpack looks like after this storm blows out. At this point, though, everything is saturated and heavy and sloppy. At least the snowbanks around my house are starting to compress a little ;)
As always, thanks so much for tuning in and your contributions to the conversations! I love it :)
Longer skis are an absolute liability in denser terrain. At 6'2" in height, I sized my first pair of BC skis like my standard classic ones at 205cm. It's absolutely arduous picking your way through trees with long planks. I've since picked up a pair of 195s and the 10cms less makes a big difference. Having the ideal fit to not over compress the camber isn't as critical for BC skis because you're likely not skiing in a groomed track. I would therefore err on the shorter side, especially if you're taller like myself
@marccharbonneau8511 I agree that a longer ski is definitely a challenge in thick forest and when lots of other natural debris is around. I definitely opt for a shorter ski when given the option. I like the idea, though, that there is the option for a longer skinnier ski when the conditions are appropriate (i.e. wide open fields or undulating low angle open hills). All that said, I'm a lot shorter than you so even a long ski for me will still be a short one for you 😁 Thanks for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation 🤗
Thanks for the reality check of skiing in 3' of untracked snow. Haven't tried it yet, but if I had, I would've thought I was doing something wrong. Your demo of the speed and energy needed is something I've never seen demo'd on YT.
Yep, a whole other experience compared to groomed terrain or even hard-packed snow in the backcountry. I absolutely love it, especially when the trees are flocked with snow. I definitely dial back my mileage when out in deep stuff, though :)
Thanks for tuning in, and for the nice feedback! I appreciate it. And I hope we all get enough snow so that we can experience something similar :)
Great video, thanks 👍
Thank you very much! I appreciate it 🤗
Love those tracks you laid down there 🙂
Thank you! As I was doing that, I was actually giving consideration to just making an entire loop around the forest and taking laps on it :) But then I remembered I was capturing footage for the video and had to keep at it - haha!
Great information. Tbh, we only get that kind of snow maybe a couple times of year here, but I really love to ski in those conditions. It can be a lot of work on 100-80-90’s that I have. I really might as well be snowshoeing at that point. It’s all good.
Haha, yeah I'm sure a lot of places don't deal with that deep of snow. But it seems like it's all I've had this winter here in Tahoe. And since that's been the case, I figured I may as well make something related to it because I haven't been able to make many of the other ones that I had originally planned to create (before the non-stop storm cycles took over).
It sounds like you have some great skis for deep snow, though! Anyway, thanks so much for watching, and the nice feedback! I appreciate it :)
Hey Jared, happy belated birthday. I see you’re having to do a lot of “stepping” becuase the deeper snow. I recall you saying the vid the snow here was 3’ deep and you had your wider skis. Where I live we rarely get more than 12” in a single storm, and by the time the next storm comes most of that inital snow is gone or packed down. Would you advise looking into wider skis? I currently use Saloman 60 Outback, and there was only one time I’ve had issues with them sinking deep into the snow (it was while crossing a snwdrift. Thanks for all your videos and advice!!!
Hey Andrew!
Thanks for the birthday wishes :)
Yeah, all last winter was one major snowstorm after another that yielded 1+ feet every time. So, I was doing a lot of what amounted to walking around. At least until I found some steeper hills where I could do some fun downhilling.
I think if the skis you already own seem to do the job of keeping you afloat, I probably wouldn't race out to buy a new set of wider skis. That isn't to say that you couldn't find uses for them, particularly in deeper snow when you get the occasional major snowstorm. But, again, if what you have works I'd probably stick with it.
All of that said, having a wide set of skis in not-so-deep snow can be fun and really keep you on top of the snow no matter what. But that becomes a slippery slope (pun intended!) when you start to buy multiple pairs of skis. One day you may just find yourself with a dozen sets (like me - ha!), all very specific to one condition or depth of snow. And then you have to store them and maintain them and, essentially, not use them that often because you can only run one set of skis at a time ;)
Anyway, I'd probably just stick with what's already working for you.
Thanks so much for watching and commenting. And I really appreciate the other support, too :)
Jared, thanks for the video and all the good tips and advice. I'm in my second season of teaching myself to do this "backcountry" style nordic skiing up here in the Mt. Hood, Oregon area. The snow is always deep and I go away from the crowds to make my own tracks. I am using the Fischer 98 Bound skis now with this Alpina Alaska boots. I feel like a wider ski would make travel more efficiently in these deep powder conditions. Any thoughts on the Rossignol XP 120 BC ski? The Xplore bidning/boot system? For those types of conditions. I do some downhills/uphills but stay away from any terrain that could be avalanche territory. I'm just about getting out into nature and exploring it with my dog. Any advice on gear selection, much appreciated.
Thank you for watching, and the kind words :)
Those Rossignol XC 120 look pretty beefy! I'm sure they'd handle most deep snow scenarios. I use the S-Bound 112mm in deeper snow, and they mostly work. But when it's over a couple of feet of fresh snow, they still sink a lot. I actually own a pair of Fischer S-Bound 98mm, as well, but when it's deep snow I just grab the 112mm. The 120mm should give you more float, though. Fischer actually used to make some S-Bound 125mm, but I believe they no longer do. I kind of wish they still did because they would be even better in deep stuff.
As far as the Xplore bindings and boots go, I just don't have any experience with them. Look for Tom M's UA-cam channel as he's done various reviews on the system. I just don't want to invest in another binding system, so I've been sticking with a basic 3-pin binding or the NNN BC bindings. I'm fine with either of those, and finding all the boots to accommodate them is easier (and less expensive!). That said, I definitely would not go with an NNN BC binding on those 120s. I think it would just be too small for the ski. So, 3-pin or Xplore would be more appropriate.
Hopefully that helps. Let me know if you have other questions or want additional clarification on what I've said here.
Again, thanks so much for tuning in and for the question. I appreciate it!
I've found that fish scales don't well in fresh snow, at least not in dry colorado fresh snow. I've tried rubbing blue kick wax in front and behind fish scales. Sometimes almost the entire length of the ski. It does reduce glide, but much better than putting on skins in hilly terrain.
Hey Justin,
Thanks so much for tuning in, and for contributing to the conversation!
That's interesting, though, about not having much success with scale-patterned bases in fresh snow. I have experienced, to one degree or another, shearing on occasion if I'm trying to walk straight up a hill of fresh snow (which then causes me to slide backwards). But then when I change the angle of my skis in a herringbone, for example, I don't have too much problem other than the work it takes to deal with the deeper snow. Yeah, mostly I just change my physical approach if I find that I'm not getting much grip at a certain angle in fresh, deeper snow.
I like your idea of adding the grip wax to the mix. I think that's a great use of it in those conditions. You could even apply it to the scale pattern to give some extra grip.
Again, thanks for watching and for the feedback. I appreciate it :)
My boots need to be replaced after a good number of years. I have the wider backwoods skis and I believe that the binding and boots are NNN BC (wider bar and grooves). Where do I go to get a new pair boots? Everyone seems to sell the NNN or narower boots. Googling is absolutely no help. Is there a brand or style or company that would be able to recommend me a boot that fits my skis? :-(
Hey Helene,
Thanks for tuning in and reaching out!
As far as NNN BC boots go, Fischer, Rossignol, and Alpina make a bunch of different versions. And those are top tier xc ski manufacturers, so they have great quality boots. You can find them at retailers/online at REI (www.rei.com/search?q=nnn+bc+boots ) and Backcountry.com (www.backcountry.com/search?s=u&q=nnn+bc+boots ). If you have any local shops, go with them, but maybe you don't if you're having trouble finding options. So maybe just try one of the aforementioned online options (REI or Backcountry.com).
I have a handful of different Fischer brand NNN BC boots and I've been really happy with them.
Anyway, I hope that helps. Let me know if you have any difficulties trying to narrow down your search. And let me know what you end up buying!
@@JaredManninen Thank you! I am not close to retailers and googling what i need has not been helpful. Some of the main shops are swamped right now and don't answer phones or emails. I don't want to get something that won't fit and I'll have to send it back. I'll try your searches!
@@JaredManninen I was able to get a pair on REI. They will be in before Christmas too. THANK YOU!
@@helenemousseau7498 You're welcome! I've found that a lot of physical stores, regardless of genre, tend to not be great at answering their phones too. It's definitely frustrating. And I agree that buying footwear, specifically, online can be challenging. I've had to ship the occasional shoe/boot back when doing so. At least that's an option, though :)
@@helenemousseau7498 That's fantastic! I hope they're comfortable and that you can get lots of miles out of them :)
There’s a plethora of solid information packed in here. I love Autumn but am so jonesing for some snow! My dog is a complete idiot in the snow. We both love it! Although, my widest skis are 100’s, there are just so few days that require 120’s in Wyoming. I think I would opt for a three pin over a NNN BC binding with a 112-125mm ski.
Thanks so much for the feedback, John! Glad you found my info about xc skiing in deep snow relevant/helpful :)
I think there are a lot of places in snow country that don't necessarily need xc skis wider than 100mm. And even when there is a dump of multiple feet of powder, a lot of times that snow will consolidate within a few days. Well, at least enough that 100s or narrower would be good enough. That said, last winter (2022-23) in Tahoe was just non-stop deep stuff! I probably could've run a set of backcountry xc skis that were 120+ without thinking twice. haha! But that's definitely not the norm.
I'm looking forward to the temperatures dropping and the snow flying as well. But I still have a small laundry list of winterization projects that I need to complete before that happens. So, I'm hoping I have at least a few more weeks of autumn! haha :)
Thanks again for tuning in, and for the kind words.
ski length is also important for deep snow
Totally true! However, if you're buying skis for your weight, often you're stuck with the specific length for your weight. And mostly the backcountry xc skis are limited in lengths (generally in the range of 165-195cm). You could buy longer for your weight, but it's always a questionable practice because of the camber issue (i.e. not heavy enough to compress it for grip). Anyway, I probably should've mentioned ski length as a topic of discussion, so thanks for bringing it up :)