These are my new boots! Your review is very accurate, I’ve only skied on them for a few hours, but already they are favourite boots ever. The foot hold is superb, I’ve a footbed which reduces the volume a bit and the boa system really works to wrap the whole foot. One day all boots will be made this way 10/10!
This winter teried to fight my foot out the boot I went from Tecnica Mach 1 ( amazing ski boot ) to Salomon alpha 120, what a confy change!Totally agree with you. This winter I realized and gave away a little of precision boot fit in order to gain that extra 10% confort that also protect my muscles in general.
Great review guys. Anyone with ski boot foot issues will most likely try out the BOA system at some point. I agree with you Bob. I'll give up a small amount of performance for comfort any day of the week.
I was on a Flyfishing trip in 2018 when my wading boots decided to deconstruct. The local shop had brand options, but all in BOA. I have a few pair now with different sole options and would not go back to previous lacing options. It’ll be interesting to see how BOA meets the demands placed on a ski boot, as soon as Tecnica offers a Mach 1 in BOA, I’ll find out!
I was hesitant with BOA fishing boots too. That's all I wear now. The cables can break but are also easy to repair IMO. I'm definitely excited to see this tech in ski boots.
Thanks a lot for the review! I had the chance to test vor 7 days the fischer Boa 130 MV. It was comfy and the performance is quite similar to my head raptor, which I used the last years. The Boa allows me to enter and exit easier. The twisting of the boa in the morning taks more time, than a good setting ob buckels an the skiboot. I fit them one in autom, and it fits for me the rest of the saison. I had the chance to talk to K2, they use a different setting of the lower shell, which should close the boot even better. So I hope to thest it early next saison. Thanks and regards from Switerland.
Super helpful review! Thanks for identifying the connection points for the cable and how it relates to a more cylindrical compression around the foot. I’m a Salomon S/Pro user now at 100 and hope to see a BOA option in the 100 or 110 in the future!
Great review, so interesting to hear this kind of analysis from an actual bootfitter. Would love to hear what you think of those fischers and if the BOA can go on a more high performance, low volume type boot, maybe even a racing boot.
We're not a Fischer boot vendor at the moment, so it's a bit more difficult to get our hands on them and give them a proper run-through. While I do think there's a high-performance application on the horizon here, I don't really see it getting to the upper levels of the race world. This technology seems more in line with the recreational side of the sport rather than the competitive realm. I could imagine a boot tech using like a 10mm allen key to tighten a racer's boot before their run, but I'd be surprised if this exact dial system will make it to those levels.
Great review. Very informative. Explained the technology very well combined with the practical aspects of using the boot. Appreciate the warning of high instep might make it tougher to get into the boot.
Amazing video, thank you! I had the same question you answered about accommodating a wider fit. I fit well into the HV S/Pro 120, and since the last is just 1mm different, I will assume the Boa can be widened.
Loving the new boa. I would never buckle my lower buckles because it would push down on my arch and cause a good bit of pain. The boa snugs things up nicely without the downward pain. I hope they continue to improve on this, and make it more accessible to lower budget boots!
I have a high instep and struggle to get into normal boots so I feel that the fact they are harder to get into will be a deal breaker for me. This could be easily be solved by simply looping the top few BOA cable loops under open locators. Some people would just leave the cable inside the locators but it would make them easier to get into to and out of.
It's a minor inconvenience, but it is different. I don't think there will be too many skiers that actually struggle to get them on, but I do like your thought process! I think we'll see a lot of tweaks and changes to the system over the coming years, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of them.
There is so much slack in the cable that there is no chance that the boa system will make it any harder at all for anyone to get into or out of than if it had buckles. The cable is like 2 feet long, seriously. The shell will still be what makes the boot hard to get in/out of. The cable is not the limiter.
Salomon s pro alpha expert 130 el! Another mouthful. You guys had it in the background and that's my front runner. I tried it on with Devin and it fit really well out of the box. I got pretty excited thinking you were going to compare even though there are quite a few differences. Hope to see it soon. What else should I be putting on my feet in that low volume 97-98, mid-ish instep, 130 flex, 27.5? What you guys provide is phenomenal. Pray for snow after that warm up we just got!
You've probably heard of the Lange Shadow, I'd check that out in the 130LV for sure. There's more instep room in this boot than the RS 130, not sure if you've had that on, but Shadow is a slightly friendlier high performance fit than the RS or the Nordica Promachine.
Yes it's on the top of the list for boot reviews for sure, and as a new model from a company like Lange, it is certainly more interesting than a closure system like BOA. I skied in them about 5 days last year and really thought they performed great. The fit was different than expected, with a roomier shell and a softer liner than I thought there'd be. Due to this, skiers may have to adjust either the sizing or volume, or explore an aftermarket liner. Out of the box, these boots are VERY comfortable, and as a former boot fitter, that can be considered cause for concern.
Do you notice any difference with the instep height? I hope this system solves my instep problems. It would be great to have a medium volume boot that I can ski all day. Thanks for making these videos.
It's not different than the buckle version of this boot, which I've also had instep success in. I think these MV boots with BOA are going to make a lot of skiers with instep issues quite happy.
I want more instep height too! I have not been able to find a boot suitable for my high instep despite visiting several renowned boot fitters in Australia. All my fitted boots have been very painful. The BOA apparently makes them harder to get into and out of with a high instep plus if you watch the video they appear to crank down on the instep unfortunately.
I have a super high arch. So much so that my atomic hawx ultra 130 liners cracked on my last two pairs. I thought these boots were the easiest boots to put on and take off as well as the most comfortable boot I’ve ever worn. I’ve yet to ski them but they will be my next boot.
Love the in-depth review. I have a difficult foot. Wide foot, with high instep and short toes. Boots have always been a struggle to have a comfortable high performance boot. Sounds like this might be a good solution.
This one checks a lot of those boxes. Your foot sounds like my foot! Like I said in the video, in my advancing age, I'm personally more interested in comfort and longevity rather than flat-out performance. This boot fits my needs quite well.
I meant to get a pair of Zip Fit this winter but that plan never materialized. I'd be surprised if the BOA tech, in this current state, makes it to the top levels of competition. I could see a more burly/total cable closure system in race boots, but I'd imagine it'll take more than a twist dial to get it where the racers want. I picture a coach/tech cranking down a cable before a race run with a thick allen wrench or something like that.
Size 11 shoe. I measure about a 27 on the Brannock, so am comfortable in both 26.5 and 27.5 depending on volume. I need bigger shoes to handle forefoot width and instep height.
@SkiEssentials Time for new boots, considering salomon, but then found out they are a 12 deg forward lean!! Why so upright? How can anyone ski in a 12deg boot? Am i missing something? Love to hear from people that like salomon.
I was just looking through Nordica's 2025 boot catalog and they're all 13 degree lean. This isn't a huge difference from the 12 that you're seeing. A rear spoiler and a slight heel lift will get you a bit more forward if you wish.
@@SkiEssentials thanks, i was just reading that diff brands measure the angle differently as well, haha, sounds like comparing flex. How do you feel in the Salomon boots compared to others? Do they feel more upright?
Great review. I seem to be a combination of both your feet. Size 24.5 so boot choice is limited in a stronger flex and developed a lump on the Navicular of my left foot which hurts all the time with any pressure due to the buckle, which of course aggravates the lump even with custom foot beds. So I am one of those people that frees the buckle in the ski lift. I am in the market for a new boot and have been looking at boots with buckles that pull the foot back into the heel ie more like a touring boot. After this review I may wait to see what choice the next season brings. Thanks
Good luck! Have you tried a cabrio boot like the Dalbello Krypton? The mid-buckle on those does a nice job of cinching the heel back in the pocket at an angle--maybe something to try on?
These boots or the Hawx Prime 120 S BOA GW? Currently the exact same price. And do you recommend heat molding or just letting break in naturally? Thanks
The new K2 Mindbender 130 BOA is a 97 mm last boot and is pretty LV. It does have a walk mode and tech fittings, so it's more of a 50/50 touring boot, but still is a stiff flex and narrow fit.
Bob, you say you are between sizes 26.5 and 27.5, but can you tell your measured foot length? I am also kind of between sizes 28.5 and 29.5 (293mm and 298mm length feet when flat), and like you, I would gladly sacrifice a bit of performance for more comfort. By shellfitting a couple boots it seems I should be able to make 28.5 work for a performance fit, but my wide forefoot and flat feet have always given me difficulties getting a good fit. I do have a custom insole with a higher arch at least. Especially for a boot that has a walk mechanism, I definitely don't want a too short boot where my toes bang against the end while touring. I have to try and figure things out myself, since there aren't any good bootfitters within 300 miles of where I live. If I need to get the shell punched to get it to fit, that is possible, but expert help for finding a good boot model is not available here. The local guy just said "Pick any model and I will punch it to make it work", which isn't confidence inspiring for me. My previous boot purchase also went completely wrong, when I got a 28.5 Fischer Ranger 120 that was supposed to fit ANY feet with the Vacuum molding, but despite Vacuum molding them multiple times, I still got terrible cramps around the outer edges of my forefeet and numb feet to the point where they were unusable. This was 10 years ago, though... Since then I gave up with getting a good fitting boot until recently. I've still been skiing in my old way too big park boot... No good boot fitters is also one reason why I'm looking forward to trying on a BOA boot. But I am a little concerned how the BOA handles my wide forefoot, but more normal size instep height.
Yeah that's a tough one. I'll do my best to make a recommendation, but as you well know, the best way is to put them on your feet. There's also a reason why the Vacuum system no longer exists. I measure about 265mm so my "correct" shell size is a 26.5, but I've just come to realize that I don't want to deal with it. Even as a former boot fitter, I'm living against the words I always used to spout about how it's easier to make a boot bigger than it is smaller. This is not entirely true. There's plenty of shims, pads, and wedges that can be installed to take up room and increase both comfort and performance. Is it going to be as good as a close to the shell fit? No, but these things are rarely black and white and there are a lot of factors that compose the balance of performance and comfort. The fact that you measure a 295ish and "would gladly sacrifice a bit of performance for more comfort" indicates that a 29.5 would likely be a better choice. I have a wider forefoot and a higher arch so I am somewhat forced into a bigger shell size to accommodate. There is nothing wrong with this. The S/Pro 120, K2 Recon 120 MV, and even the new Lange Shadow 120 MV all have enough room to fit a wider forefoot while keeping the rest of the foot fully enveloped. Boa makes it a bit easier to fine-tune the fit, but all of these boots are also available in buckle format so Boa is still an option rather than a standard feature. I hope that somewhat helps. I also know that it can be extremely frustrating. I've settled into a good groove with my boots as my feet have always had issues in the past, not because I was in the wrong size boot, but more because my feet are just more sensitive than others. Also, as an online retailer, we see many, many boot returns so it's not unheard of to try on before you ski. Bob/SE
@@SkiEssentials Thanks for the very thorough answer, Bob! Sounds like 29.5 could be the way to go for me. Will have to get my foot in different models somehow to find the best model for me. I won't give up anymore on finding well fitting boots. I love skiing too much to waste good skiing days, months and even whole seasons because of bad boots. You guys are the best! -Mikael
I know Bob knows 1000 times more things than I do about boots but I can’t convince myself to size up. My foot measures 25.7 cm and will always get a 25.5. It’s never length that gets in my way its width and height. A 26.5 leaves almost a half an inch of space in front and I just can’t do it. They ARE more comfortable though!! When they finally made 100mm wide boots it was a godsend. I have a high instep though and I just tend to leave the buckles pretty loose. I’m going to switch to BOA this season and see how it goes.
What boot would you recommend for very athletic Senior Intermediate skier in Big Sky Mt who has narrow flat feet, but wide ankle bones? Prefer lighter weight boots.
I'd start with the mid-volume 100 mm forefoot last boots and see how they feel. Each company makes a competing boot that should be tried on, especially if you're unsure of fit or what to get.
They're very similar. The performance is right at the same time, while the fit is slightly different in that the Salomon is slightly more snug in the heel pocket.
While we will do a Shadow overview later this summer, we won't be able to do a full on-snow test until next season. I skied it about 5 days this year and found it to be a very interesting change. The power band of the boot starts a lot higher/earlier in the turn, and lasts longer throughout. It's easier to get more leverage over the edges of the skis due to that lower pivot point.
I have Salomon's S pro 130 Alpha boot which ive used this season, and I really can't see why I would move to a boot with the BOA system. I know i am the odd one out but i am really not convinced this will hold my foot in so well. This 'general' tightening thing cant press on one area more than another. please prove me wrong. Until I see racers with these ...
It's a smoother closure system that will work well for a lot of skiers. Will it work for all skiers? Absolutely not--just like how certain skis don't work well for all skiers. Race boots are different animals altogether--they're barely even ski boots, rather specific tools for a focused job. I'd imagine, though, if you put a high-end racer on a BOA boot, they'd make it look pretty darn good.
I use medium wide (102mm) boots right now. Do you think the S/Pro Supra would be a good fit out of the box? Or do you think they will be a bit narrow for me?
Really tough to tell in an online format. Trying them on under the supervised eye of a professional bootfitter is the best way to proper fit. If that's not possible, rest assured that these boots can be stretched at a shop and are easy to customize by said professional.
I use a 17-degree forward lean in my masters/club 130 boot. Can I get that forward lean into the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA? I am aware that the Atomic BOA DOES offer the 17-degree lean option. I have a high instep so have to wear a 27.5 in my race boot but was able to step down to the 26.5 in my Nordica HF which is a nice comfy boot when not trying to race. Just looking for modern tech that can give me some decent performance for a mid-20's HDCP racer.
You would have to adjust from the inside as the Salomon does not have the same lean mechanism as the Atomic. Heel lifts and spoilers can definitely change your stance.
The Alpha with BOA could feasibly happen--I think they're waiting to see how the mainstream boots do with the system before moving into higher and lower end products.
You don't cover this in the review, but (for me) the whole boot is rubbished by the tongue on the liner. It is truly terrible. Best described as a piece of cheap foam attached to some white ice-cream box plastic. Not like any tongue I have seen before. I actually wondered if I had some sort of display model that's not supposed to be used, it's that bad. Maybe its because the tongue is moveable that it was made like this. I've not worn other Salomons, so I don't know if this flimsy tongue design is normal for them, but it doesn't work with the Boa. For me, any forward pressure pinches at the bend of my ankle. This pinch is just where the Boa system wraps the top of the shell more than a buckle would do, but the tongue offers no protection or padding from this increased wrap. As a comparison, I took the liner from a Nordica Speedmachine and put it in the S/Pro. That combo felt truly fantastic, and if it wasn't for the cost of buying new liners for a £500 boot, that's what I would have chosen. I really liked the Boa foot hold, but ended up with the Speedmachines because of that flimsy tongue. Obvs, this is just my experience, but if you try these boots, pay attention to how that tongue feels at the front of the ankle where the boa tightens.
I'm currently skiing with Lange 130. However my troubles start in the parking lot. It is literally a struggle to get these boots on and off in the cold. I assume this is due to the stiffness of the boot. Would this system be any easier to get in and out of? I'm considering the Nordica hf110. But didn't want to drop below 120. What are your recommendations?
I do not think the BOA versions of boots are easier to get into or out of. The cable does not allow the lower shell to completely detach like it does with buckles. It's mostly there, but not all the way. They do make this awesome S/Pro 120 in a non-BOA version as well, so if you're interested in this specific boot, it does come with buckles, and yes, that boot will be easier to get into and out of versus the Lange.
I have a low instep and have always skied Low Volume models in 25.5 I have skied the the K2 BOA and it definitely did not tighten down enough. I am currently skiing Nordica Pro Machine 120. Got about 120 days and it’s starting to feel like I have to tighten down more on the 2 bottom buckles than I normally like to. What is your take on this model for low volume low instep?
I don't think it's great for low insteps. If everything else fits right, though, you can always play around with shims to take up some volume. If you are in a Pro Machine and find it to be generous, then I'd imagine you'll have a similar experience on this Salomon.
That's kind of me, but with less narrow ankles. I'd say it's good for that type of foot for sure, as long as it's sized properly. You may need to put some fit aids in the ankle region for good measure.
I have a very low instep (flat feet) Is BOA an advantage? My foot has a pretty straight shape when I stand on it. (Duck foot shape) I'm an average width across the forefoot (100mm last) But I often have pain in many boots because the boot hits where my arch is supposed to be.
I think there's more of an advantage for higher-instep skiers. My fear with flat footed individuals is that the BOA will not tighten quite enough. I'd imagine this has been an issue with buckle boots as well, as it is for a lot of skiers, so it's not like BOA closure will be a disadvantage. Hopefully your boots are sized properly and that you have a custom foot bed in there, as those two things are more important than any closure system.
The lack of cuff adjustment for regular S/pro is pretty lame. Obviously heat molding can be done, but it’s another step, without adjustability or to revert. Also, BOA has always made sense in terms of a better more spread out/consistent stress pattern.
The Salomon's with the Custom Shell have been this way with the cuff alignment for a while. It certainly adds an extra step, and one that can't really be done without totally heating the shell, and there's considerable room for error in this process.
I think that's a fair assumption, but I'd also say that skiers shouldn't heat mold the whole shell unless it's totally necessary. If you can get away with spot stretches for specific areas, I'd do that first.
@@SkiEssentialsthanks for the reply! Will definitely bring it to the boot fitter, but it seems like he does exactly that (heat mold the whole shell) and with some modification to the liner and added fwd lean, the boots are perfect; which is why I’m debating to stick to HV or switch to boa boots.
There’s a reason the 1st thing every racer does at the end of the race is open their boots! They can’t be tolerated for more than 1 min 30, in other words useless for non-racers /all day skiing.
When you remove a rivet Does it affect the forward flex or the lateral stiffness more? I was considering removing a rivet from my technica130 To soften up the Forward flex a bit. I was told that the t drive really is for lateral stiffness. This true?
Kind of. The T-Drive is incorporated into the shell/cuff interface, so as long as they're "connected" it shouldn't affect lateral. Even by having the boot buckled, you're engaging that interface, if that makes sense. Removing rivets affects the forward flex more.
I cannot understand the astonishment of you ski equipment reviewers regarding the adoption of a BOA lacing system - have you had your heads in the sand for the last decade - cycling shoes have been using this "superior" system for years and I have been using it since its inception The high degree of adjustment is just perfect for any sport that needs such a degree of adjustment Wake up and smell the roses!!!
Depends on ankle flexibility. For me, with stiffer ankles, I can't quite get the front of the boot to open as wide as my 4-buckle boots. We're all different!
Is this the right boot to adapt to 97-98 mmlast skiers? I understand this is 100mm last and heat moldeable, also the BOA should does a even distribution...but how the 100 last can be modified when is the blue print of the boot sole ?....... I'm very tempted to give them a shot but.....we ONLY know the boot when we r skiing ( too late already! ) Great video guys!
The theory with the BOA, and forgive if this sounds repetitive, is that the shell is brought IN when tightening as opposed to DOWN when buckling. This allows the manufacturer to claim, rightly so I believe, that the last does tighten up when the BOA is tightened. But it does start at 100, and those with narrow feet might want to think twice before jumping into an MV boot.
Thanks to replyed but absolutely right! This is not the ski boot for narrow feet skier! I just got a pair and after cranking that Boa all the way to the max and with my insoles in place....it feels that still too much room for my feet to move, as I said the 100mm last ( the foot print of the boot it want change ) I'm Returning these bbots. I have to say that I really like the BOA system, it really distributed the tension equally. Bob is right on point. Thanks!@@SkiEssentials
Do you mean "feels" as in you've skied it and you don't like it, or "feels" as in you don't like the look of it but haven't skied in it yet? I can totally understand the trepidation!
@SkiEssentials Second part. Haven't skied in. But not sure if I will come around to spend money for boots with dial. I understand lot of people will like it.
Seems like a marketing exercise, otherwise why would the boot manufacturers pay BOA to use their name, when all it is is a ratchet mechanism & a cable.
I think they prefer the term "colab" these days. I'd also guess that BOA is good at manufacturing this system, so they can sell more to boot shops if repairs are needed. Maybe BOA's patent is running out soon and these boot manufacturers are already working on closure systems of their own?
Another skiing innovation brought to you by the snowboard industry lol. That’s probably why the purists react so violently. Lighten up ski bros we’re all just sliding down a hill having fun.
For some reason, a lot of skiers are taking the BOA thing very personally. It works great. I don't see an issue here (other than the constant stream of negative reactions).
@@SkiEssentials I suspect it’s because it’s another snowboard thing. So far shaped skis (that was a big one) rocker camber and now BOA? It’s more than they can handle. 😂
Its just marketing bs for the bubba crowd. I mean, a new look in the lift line, but its a perfect contraption for a good breakdown. When the boa goes, so does your boot and your skiing.
I hear what you're saying for sure, but I also have a few thoughts: It's nice to try new things! What if everyone ends up loving it and it works great for a ton of skiers? Pretty much all of these boots that are getting BOA, at least for this year, also have a buckle counterpart so it is an option, rather than a standard, as much as it may seem the companies are shoving it in our faces. As far as durability, as a former boot shop employee, I fixed a lot of buckles, so those break too.
@@SkiEssentials I would be the first to green light the boa; if I were part of the design/marketing group; since its about sales. Salomon has always been first class in boot innovation and spectacular designs, I ski in a salomon from 1992, and it has boa on the inside; now, boa on the outside. I just see it as a nice marketing feature; and you need this style of change inorder to sell boots. Its reinventing the wheel; and adds to the breakable parts, so it adds nothing but complexity. But, people will love it, so to each his own.
@@teddyzamba1396 I rode my boa last season, 115 days of piste and offpiste hard skiing, not a single problem, plus boa has lifetime warranty, if it breaks, they fix it. Worked in a skishop at that time, A LOT of buckles had to be fixed during the season, you may be right but my experience is totally different. PS, there is acually less movable parts in the boa system compared to regular buckles.
I still don't get it why at $800 pair of ski boots they keep the power starp with velcro? Just .......doesn't work! Nothing more precise that power strap with a buckle!!!!!!!
Precision-wise you are correct, and the 130 version of this boot does have the higher-end buckle strap. That said, I prefer the ease of use of the old-school velcro, especially taking boots off with cold hands.
These are my new boots! Your review is very accurate, I’ve only skied on them for a few hours, but already they are favourite boots ever. The foot hold is superb, I’ve a footbed which reduces the volume a bit and the boa system really works to wrap the whole foot. One day all boots will be made this way 10/10!
Glad you like them!
The BOA system is seemingly literally mimicking a fracture cast with a dial. It’s pretty cool
More like sutures than a cast…
Can't wait for you guys to test the Fischer BOA with the Zipfit liner. I'm very interested in that boot.
We hope to get our hands (feet) on that boot as well!
This winter teried to fight my foot out the boot I went from Tecnica Mach 1 ( amazing ski boot ) to Salomon alpha 120, what a confy change!Totally agree with you. This winter I realized and gave away a little of precision boot fit in order to gain that extra 10% confort that also protect my muscles in general.
Great to hear!
You guys are thebest reviewers on the internet. So much useful info!!
Thanks for watching!
Great review guys. Anyone with ski boot foot issues will most likely try out the BOA system at some point. I agree with you Bob. I'll give up a small amount of performance for comfort any day of the week.
Thank you guys again for the best ski equipment reviews out there. I'll try these this winter since I have the HV problem that Bob mentioned
HV is not a problem! It is how we are made.
I was on a Flyfishing trip in 2018 when my wading boots decided to deconstruct. The local shop had brand options, but all in BOA. I have a few pair now with different sole options and would not go back to previous lacing options. It’ll be interesting to see how BOA meets the demands placed on a ski boot, as soon as Tecnica offers a Mach 1 in BOA, I’ll find out!
I was hesitant with BOA fishing boots too. That's all I wear now. The cables can break but are also easy to repair IMO. I'm definitely excited to see this tech in ski boots.
I did not know that tech existed in the fishing world--fascinating! Makes sense as you're looking to get a pretty precise fit, I'd imagine.
Thanks a lot for the review! I had the chance to test vor 7 days the fischer Boa 130 MV. It was comfy and the performance is quite similar to my head raptor, which I used the last years. The Boa allows me to enter and exit easier. The twisting of the boa in the morning taks more time, than a good setting ob buckels an the skiboot. I fit them one in autom, and it fits for me the rest of the saison. I had the chance to talk to K2, they use a different setting of the lower shell, which should close the boot even better. So I hope to thest it early next saison. Thanks and regards from Switerland.
Super helpful review! Thanks for identifying the connection points for the cable and how it relates to a more cylindrical compression around the foot. I’m a Salomon S/Pro user now at 100 and hope to see a BOA option in the 100 or 110 in the future!
Even in the 120, there's a dial in the back you can turn to lower the flex, probably equal to the 110's.
Great review, so interesting to hear this kind of analysis from an actual bootfitter. Would love to hear what you think of those fischers and if the BOA can go on a more high performance, low volume type boot, maybe even a racing boot.
We're not a Fischer boot vendor at the moment, so it's a bit more difficult to get our hands on them and give them a proper run-through. While I do think there's a high-performance application on the horizon here, I don't really see it getting to the upper levels of the race world. This technology seems more in line with the recreational side of the sport rather than the competitive realm. I could imagine a boot tech using like a 10mm allen key to tighten a racer's boot before their run, but I'd be surprised if this exact dial system will make it to those levels.
I got this boot as a newer skier but it’s really what works for my foot and body the best. I almost no heel lift and the boot moves with my leg.
Great review. Very informative. Explained the technology very well combined with the practical aspects of using the boot. Appreciate the warning of high instep might make it tougher to get into the boot.
Thanks for watching!
Amazing video, thank you! I had the same question you answered about accommodating a wider fit. I fit well into the HV S/Pro 120, and since the last is just 1mm different, I will assume the Boa can be widened.
The shells are moldable, both in their entirety and by specific spot. I think you'll have success in the Boa MV fit.
Cheers fellaz 👍🏻
Is the progressive mode more like a 110 flex boot?
I suppose. These are not exact sciences so that's a difficult number to commit to.
Loving the new boa. I would never buckle my lower buckles because it would push down on my arch and cause a good bit of pain. The boa snugs things up nicely without the downward pain. I hope they continue to improve on this, and make it more accessible to lower budget boots!
I believe that's the direction that Boa is going. I like it too!
I have a high instep and struggle to get into normal boots so I feel that the fact they are harder to get into will be a deal breaker for me. This could be easily be solved by simply looping the top few BOA cable loops under open locators. Some people would just leave the cable inside the locators but it would make them easier to get into to and out of.
It's a minor inconvenience, but it is different. I don't think there will be too many skiers that actually struggle to get them on, but I do like your thought process! I think we'll see a lot of tweaks and changes to the system over the coming years, and I wouldn't be surprised if that's one of them.
There is so much slack in the cable that there is no chance that the boa system will make it any harder at all for anyone to get into or out of than if it had buckles. The cable is like 2 feet long, seriously. The shell will still be what makes the boot hard to get in/out of. The cable is not the limiter.
Salomon s pro alpha expert 130 el! Another mouthful. You guys had it in the background and that's my front runner. I tried it on with Devin and it fit really well out of the box. I got pretty excited thinking you were going to compare even though there are quite a few differences. Hope to see it soon. What else should I be putting on my feet in that low volume 97-98, mid-ish instep, 130 flex, 27.5? What you guys provide is phenomenal. Pray for snow after that warm up we just got!
You've probably heard of the Lange Shadow, I'd check that out in the 130LV for sure. There's more instep room in this boot than the RS 130, not sure if you've had that on, but Shadow is a slightly friendlier high performance fit than the RS or the Nordica Promachine.
Incredible review
Will you guys be reviewing the Lange Shadow series boots at some point? I think that text is more exciting than the BOA stuff
Yes it's on the top of the list for boot reviews for sure, and as a new model from a company like Lange, it is certainly more interesting than a closure system like BOA. I skied in them about 5 days last year and really thought they performed great. The fit was different than expected, with a roomier shell and a softer liner than I thought there'd be. Due to this, skiers may have to adjust either the sizing or volume, or explore an aftermarket liner. Out of the box, these boots are VERY comfortable, and as a former boot fitter, that can be considered cause for concern.
Do you notice any difference with the instep height? I hope this system solves my instep problems. It would be great to have a medium volume boot that I can ski all day. Thanks for making these videos.
It's not different than the buckle version of this boot, which I've also had instep success in. I think these MV boots with BOA are going to make a lot of skiers with instep issues quite happy.
I want more instep height too! I have not been able to find a boot suitable for my high instep despite visiting several renowned boot fitters in Australia. All my fitted boots have been very painful. The BOA apparently makes them harder to get into and out of with a high instep plus if you watch the video they appear to crank down on the instep unfortunately.
I have a super high arch. So much so that my atomic hawx ultra 130 liners cracked on my last two pairs. I thought these boots were the easiest boots to put on and take off as well as the most comfortable boot I’ve ever worn. I’ve yet to ski them but they will be my next boot.
Awesome! Love a good boot success story!
Love the in-depth review. I have a difficult foot. Wide foot, with high instep and short toes. Boots have always been a struggle to have a comfortable high performance boot. Sounds like this might be a good solution.
This one checks a lot of those boxes. Your foot sounds like my foot! Like I said in the video, in my advancing age, I'm personally more interested in comfort and longevity rather than flat-out performance. This boot fits my needs quite well.
mat you may be like me with a high instep then this will make them harder to get into and out of sadly.
Do you guys use zip fit liners? Think you can do a “World Cup” entry in to a Boa boot?
I meant to get a pair of Zip Fit this winter but that plan never materialized. I'd be surprised if the BOA tech, in this current state, makes it to the top levels of competition. I could see a more burly/total cable closure system in race boots, but I'd imagine it'll take more than a twist dial to get it where the racers want. I picture a coach/tech cranking down a cable before a race run with a thick allen wrench or something like that.
Hey Bob, you mentioned you wear a 26.5 or 27.5 ski boot. What is your regular shoe size range?
These days I am wearing an 11 street shoe but that's kind of a comfort fit.
Lov the review. But can a size 11 foot actually get in 26.5 boot? How'd you do that? I'm a 9.5 and use a 26.5.
Size 11 shoe. I measure about a 27 on the Brannock, so am comfortable in both 26.5 and 27.5 depending on volume. I need bigger shoes to handle forefoot width and instep height.
@SkiEssentials Time for new boots, considering salomon, but then found out they are a 12 deg forward lean!! Why so upright? How can anyone ski in a 12deg boot? Am i missing something? Love to hear from people that like salomon.
I was just looking through Nordica's 2025 boot catalog and they're all 13 degree lean. This isn't a huge difference from the 12 that you're seeing. A rear spoiler and a slight heel lift will get you a bit more forward if you wish.
@@SkiEssentials thanks, i was just reading that diff brands measure the angle differently as well, haha, sounds like comparing flex. How do you feel in the Salomon boots compared to others? Do they feel more upright?
Great review. I seem to be a combination of both your feet. Size 24.5 so boot choice is limited in a stronger flex and developed a lump on the Navicular of my left foot which hurts all the time with any pressure due to the buckle, which of course aggravates the lump even with custom foot beds. So I am one of those people that frees the buckle in the ski lift. I am in the market for a new boot and have been looking at boots with buckles that pull the foot back into the heel ie more like a touring boot. After this review I may wait to see what choice the next season brings. Thanks
Good luck! Have you tried a cabrio boot like the Dalbello Krypton? The mid-buckle on those does a nice job of cinching the heel back in the pocket at an angle--maybe something to try on?
These boots or the Hawx Prime 120 S BOA GW? Currently the exact same price. And do you recommend heat molding or just letting break in naturally? Thanks
Are any of the BOA boots designed for a low volume foot?
The new K2 Mindbender 130 BOA is a 97 mm last boot and is pretty LV. It does have a walk mode and tech fittings, so it's more of a 50/50 touring boot, but still is a stiff flex and narrow fit.
Bob, you say you are between sizes 26.5 and 27.5, but can you tell your measured foot length?
I am also kind of between sizes 28.5 and 29.5 (293mm and 298mm length feet when flat), and like you, I would gladly sacrifice a bit of performance for more comfort.
By shellfitting a couple boots it seems I should be able to make 28.5 work for a performance fit, but my wide forefoot and flat feet have always given me difficulties getting a good fit. I do have a custom insole with a higher arch at least.
Especially for a boot that has a walk mechanism, I definitely don't want a too short boot where my toes bang against the end while touring.
I have to try and figure things out myself, since there aren't any good bootfitters within 300 miles of where I live.
If I need to get the shell punched to get it to fit, that is possible, but expert help for finding a good boot model is not available here. The local guy just said "Pick any model and I will punch it to make it work", which isn't confidence inspiring for me.
My previous boot purchase also went completely wrong, when I got a 28.5 Fischer Ranger 120 that was supposed to fit ANY feet with the Vacuum molding, but despite Vacuum molding them multiple times, I still got terrible cramps around the outer edges of my forefeet and numb feet to the point where they were unusable. This was 10 years ago, though... Since then I gave up with getting a good fitting boot until recently. I've still been skiing in my old way too big park boot...
No good boot fitters is also one reason why I'm looking forward to trying on a BOA boot.
But I am a little concerned how the BOA handles my wide forefoot, but more normal size instep height.
Yeah that's a tough one. I'll do my best to make a recommendation, but as you well know, the best way is to put them on your feet. There's also a reason why the Vacuum system no longer exists. I measure about 265mm so my "correct" shell size is a 26.5, but I've just come to realize that I don't want to deal with it. Even as a former boot fitter, I'm living against the words I always used to spout about how it's easier to make a boot bigger than it is smaller. This is not entirely true. There's plenty of shims, pads, and wedges that can be installed to take up room and increase both comfort and performance. Is it going to be as good as a close to the shell fit? No, but these things are rarely black and white and there are a lot of factors that compose the balance of performance and comfort. The fact that you measure a 295ish and "would gladly sacrifice a bit of performance for more comfort" indicates that a 29.5 would likely be a better choice. I have a wider forefoot and a higher arch so I am somewhat forced into a bigger shell size to accommodate. There is nothing wrong with this. The S/Pro 120, K2 Recon 120 MV, and even the new Lange Shadow 120 MV all have enough room to fit a wider forefoot while keeping the rest of the foot fully enveloped. Boa makes it a bit easier to fine-tune the fit, but all of these boots are also available in buckle format so Boa is still an option rather than a standard feature.
I hope that somewhat helps. I also know that it can be extremely frustrating. I've settled into a good groove with my boots as my feet have always had issues in the past, not because I was in the wrong size boot, but more because my feet are just more sensitive than others. Also, as an online retailer, we see many, many boot returns so it's not unheard of to try on before you ski.
Bob/SE
@@SkiEssentials Thanks for the very thorough answer, Bob!
Sounds like 29.5 could be the way to go for me. Will have to get my foot in different models somehow to find the best model for me.
I won't give up anymore on finding well fitting boots. I love skiing too much to waste good skiing days, months and even whole seasons because of bad boots.
You guys are the best!
-Mikael
Flat feet and a high arch footbed doesn't make sense. That guarantees aching feet.
I know Bob knows 1000 times more things than I do about boots but I can’t convince myself to size up. My foot measures 25.7 cm and will always get a 25.5. It’s never length that gets in my way its width and height. A 26.5 leaves almost a half an inch of space in front and I just can’t do it. They ARE more comfortable though!! When they finally made 100mm wide boots it was a godsend. I have a high instep though and I just tend to leave the buckles pretty loose. I’m going to switch to BOA this season and see how it goes.
The Power Spine function reduces the flex like a traditional flex adjuster?
Correct! Likely a 10% reduction in rear stiffness when turned.
What boot would you recommend for very athletic Senior Intermediate skier in Big Sky Mt who has narrow flat feet, but wide ankle bones? Prefer lighter weight boots.
I'd start with the mid-volume 100 mm forefoot last boots and see how they feel. Each company makes a competing boot that should be tried on, especially if you're unsure of fit or what to get.
How does the Supra compare to the Atomic Hawx Boa?
They're very similar. The performance is right at the same time, while the fit is slightly different in that the Salomon is slightly more snug in the heel pocket.
it's a consumer experience that's it...... and is so aesthetics.... will see
Just out of curiosity. Bob, what size do you run in the blue low volume Alphas on the table?
Those are 26.5's and I can't really ski them very comfortably.
Amazing review. Guys pleaser review K2 ("ex full tilt) boots
ua-cam.com/video/6C0ZJztVUOU/v-deo.html
When will these be available in 25.5?
We normally see our 2024 product come in through the summer. I'd expect late august for the bulk of the boots.
When will you cover the Lange Shadow?
While we will do a Shadow overview later this summer, we won't be able to do a full on-snow test until next season. I skied it about 5 days this year and found it to be a very interesting change. The power band of the boot starts a lot higher/earlier in the turn, and lasts longer throughout. It's easier to get more leverage over the edges of the skis due to that lower pivot point.
How it compares to the tecnica mach 1 120 ?
The Tecnica feels a bit stiffer and slightly more responsive, but the Salomon is smoother and easier to ski. My foot fits better in the Salomon.
I have Salomon's S pro 130 Alpha boot which ive used this season, and I really can't see why I would move to a boot with the BOA system. I know i am the odd one out but i am really not convinced this will hold my foot in so well. This 'general' tightening thing cant press on one area more than another. please prove me wrong. Until I see racers with these ...
It's a smoother closure system that will work well for a lot of skiers. Will it work for all skiers? Absolutely not--just like how certain skis don't work well for all skiers. Race boots are different animals altogether--they're barely even ski boots, rather specific tools for a focused job. I'd imagine, though, if you put a high-end racer on a BOA boot, they'd make it look pretty darn good.
I use medium wide (102mm) boots right now. Do you think the S/Pro Supra would be a good fit out of the box? Or do you think they will be a bit narrow for me?
Really tough to tell in an online format. Trying them on under the supervised eye of a professional bootfitter is the best way to proper fit. If that's not possible, rest assured that these boots can be stretched at a shop and are easy to customize by said professional.
I use a 17-degree forward lean in my masters/club 130 boot. Can I get that forward lean into the Salomon S/Pro Supra BOA? I am aware that the Atomic BOA DOES offer the 17-degree lean option. I have a high instep so have to wear a 27.5 in my race boot but was able to step down to the 26.5 in my Nordica HF which is a nice comfy boot when not trying to race. Just looking for modern tech that can give me some decent performance for a mid-20's HDCP racer.
You would have to adjust from the inside as the Salomon does not have the same lean mechanism as the Atomic. Heel lifts and spoilers can definitely change your stance.
I hope Salomon makes the same boots but LV! The MV is too wide to 97-98 mm last skiers foot!
The Alpha with BOA could feasibly happen--I think they're waiting to see how the mainstream boots do with the system before moving into higher and lower end products.
What is Bob's foot width?
I have some sizeable bunions on the big toe sides, so pretty wide at the widest part.
You don't cover this in the review, but (for me) the whole boot is rubbished by the tongue on the liner. It is truly terrible. Best described as a piece of cheap foam attached to some white ice-cream box plastic. Not like any tongue I have seen before. I actually wondered if I had some sort of display model that's not supposed to be used, it's that bad. Maybe its because the tongue is moveable that it was made like this. I've not worn other Salomons, so I don't know if this flimsy tongue design is normal for them, but it doesn't work with the Boa.
For me, any forward pressure pinches at the bend of my ankle. This pinch is just where the Boa system wraps the top of the shell more than a buckle would do, but the tongue offers no protection or padding from this increased wrap.
As a comparison, I took the liner from a Nordica Speedmachine and put it in the S/Pro. That combo felt truly fantastic, and if it wasn't for the cost of buying new liners for a £500 boot, that's what I would have chosen. I really liked the Boa foot hold, but ended up with the Speedmachines because of that flimsy tongue.
Obvs, this is just my experience, but if you try these boots, pay attention to how that tongue feels at the front of the ankle where the boa tightens.
I'm currently skiing with Lange 130. However my troubles start in the parking lot. It is literally a struggle to get these boots on and off in the cold. I assume this is due to the stiffness of the boot.
Would this system be any easier to get in and out of? I'm considering the Nordica hf110. But didn't want to drop below 120. What are your recommendations?
I do not think the BOA versions of boots are easier to get into or out of. The cable does not allow the lower shell to completely detach like it does with buckles. It's mostly there, but not all the way. They do make this awesome S/Pro 120 in a non-BOA version as well, so if you're interested in this specific boot, it does come with buckles, and yes, that boot will be easier to get into and out of versus the Lange.
@@SkiEssentialsHey thanks for your answer. It will certainly narrow my search for a new ski boot.
I have a low instep and have always skied Low Volume models in 25.5 I have skied the the K2 BOA and it definitely did not tighten down enough. I am currently skiing Nordica Pro Machine 120. Got about 120 days and it’s starting to feel like I have to tighten down more on the 2 bottom buckles than I normally like to. What is your take on this model for low volume low instep?
I don't think it's great for low insteps. If everything else fits right, though, you can always play around with shims to take up some volume. If you are in a Pro Machine and find it to be generous, then I'd imagine you'll have a similar experience on this Salomon.
I thought they were pretty heavy
Would this boot work for trouble feet narrow ankles very high arches and hammer toes
That's kind of me, but with less narrow ankles. I'd say it's good for that type of foot for sure, as long as it's sized properly. You may need to put some fit aids in the ankle region for good measure.
I have a very low instep (flat feet) Is BOA an advantage? My foot has a pretty straight shape when I stand on it. (Duck foot shape) I'm an average width across the forefoot (100mm last) But I often have pain in many boots because the boot hits where my arch is supposed to be.
I think there's more of an advantage for higher-instep skiers. My fear with flat footed individuals is that the BOA will not tighten quite enough. I'd imagine this has been an issue with buckle boots as well, as it is for a lot of skiers, so it's not like BOA closure will be a disadvantage. Hopefully your boots are sized properly and that you have a custom foot bed in there, as those two things are more important than any closure system.
The lack of cuff adjustment for regular S/pro is pretty lame. Obviously heat molding can be done, but it’s another step, without adjustability or to revert.
Also, BOA has always made sense in terms of a better more spread out/consistent stress pattern.
The Salomon's with the Custom Shell have been this way with the cuff alignment for a while. It certainly adds an extra step, and one that can't really be done without totally heating the shell, and there's considerable room for error in this process.
If I'm currently in a s/pro 120 hv, would heat molding the shell for the BOA version make it fit almost the same as the HV version?
I think that's a fair assumption, but I'd also say that skiers shouldn't heat mold the whole shell unless it's totally necessary. If you can get away with spot stretches for specific areas, I'd do that first.
@@SkiEssentialsthanks for the reply! Will definitely bring it to the boot fitter, but it seems like he does exactly that (heat mold the whole shell) and with some modification to the liner and added fwd lean, the boots are perfect; which is why I’m debating to stick to HV or switch to boa boots.
Would love to see some content about the new dalbello cabrio boots and maybe the quantum
We'll be able to give an overview video on those boots in the fall, but won't be able to due an on-snow review until next winter most likely.
I will buy BOA boots the very moment I see Odermatt winning in one of them. 😂
There’s a reason the 1st thing every racer does at the end of the race is open their boots! They can’t be tolerated for more than 1 min 30, in other words useless for non-racers /all day skiing.
When you remove a rivet Does it affect the forward flex or the lateral stiffness more?
I was considering removing a rivet from my technica130 To soften up the Forward flex a bit. I was told that the t drive really is for lateral stiffness. This true?
Kind of. The T-Drive is incorporated into the shell/cuff interface, so as long as they're "connected" it shouldn't affect lateral. Even by having the boot buckled, you're engaging that interface, if that makes sense. Removing rivets affects the forward flex more.
Buckles are a thing of the past!! BOA is amazing !! Throwing my buckle boots away 😂😂 no one’s buying buckle boots anymore
I cannot understand the astonishment of you ski equipment reviewers regarding the adoption of a BOA lacing system - have you had your heads in the sand for the last decade - cycling shoes have been using this "superior" system for years and I have been using it since its inception
The high degree of adjustment is just perfect for any sport that needs such a degree of adjustment
Wake up and smell the roses!!!
They are actually easier to slip into! They are designed that way, you missed this feature. You said they were harder to put on wrong !!!
Depends on ankle flexibility. For me, with stiffer ankles, I can't quite get the front of the boot to open as wide as my 4-buckle boots. We're all different!
Is this the right boot to adapt to 97-98 mmlast skiers? I understand this is 100mm last and heat moldeable, also the BOA should does a even distribution...but how the 100 last can be modified when is the blue print of the boot sole ?....... I'm very tempted to give them a shot but.....we ONLY know the boot when we r skiing ( too late already! ) Great video guys!
The theory with the BOA, and forgive if this sounds repetitive, is that the shell is brought IN when tightening as opposed to DOWN when buckling. This allows the manufacturer to claim, rightly so I believe, that the last does tighten up when the BOA is tightened. But it does start at 100, and those with narrow feet might want to think twice before jumping into an MV boot.
Thanks to replyed but absolutely right! This is not the ski boot for narrow feet skier! I just got a pair and after cranking that Boa all the way to the max and with my insoles in place....it feels that still too much room for my feet to move, as I said the 100mm last ( the foot print of the boot it want change ) I'm Returning these bbots. I have to say that I really like the BOA system, it really distributed the tension equally. Bob is right on point. Thanks!@@SkiEssentials
It just feels wrong to have that dial on the boots.
Do you mean "feels" as in you've skied it and you don't like it, or "feels" as in you don't like the look of it but haven't skied in it yet? I can totally understand the trepidation!
@SkiEssentials Second part. Haven't skied in. But not sure if I will come around to spend money for boots with dial. I understand lot of people will like it.
Seems like a marketing exercise, otherwise why would the boot manufacturers pay BOA to use their name, when all it is is a ratchet mechanism & a cable.
I think they prefer the term "colab" these days. I'd also guess that BOA is good at manufacturing this system, so they can sell more to boot shops if repairs are needed. Maybe BOA's patent is running out soon and these boot manufacturers are already working on closure systems of their own?
Totally disagree with a 110 flex boot being a noodle for someone Jeff's size.
I hear you based on size alone, but there are more factors involved here, specifically, Jeff's insane amount of dorsiflexion in his ankles.
Is that a Supra?!
I literally had to look that up on Knowyourmeme.com. Hilarious.
Another skiing innovation brought to you by the snowboard industry lol. That’s probably why the purists react so violently. Lighten up ski bros we’re all just sliding down a hill having fun.
For some reason, a lot of skiers are taking the BOA thing very personally. It works great. I don't see an issue here (other than the constant stream of negative reactions).
@@SkiEssentials I suspect it’s because it’s another snowboard thing. So far shaped skis (that was a big one) rocker camber and now BOA? It’s more than they can handle. 😂
@@SkiEssentials not sure where BOA started but it’s been available on snowboard boots for quite a while.
More than six minutes before saying anything about the boots… C’mon guys !!! :-(
Just trying to warm up the crowd! Suggestion noted.
Its just marketing bs for the bubba crowd. I mean, a new look in the lift line, but its a perfect contraption for a good breakdown. When the boa goes, so does your boot and your skiing.
I hear what you're saying for sure, but I also have a few thoughts: It's nice to try new things! What if everyone ends up loving it and it works great for a ton of skiers? Pretty much all of these boots that are getting BOA, at least for this year, also have a buckle counterpart so it is an option, rather than a standard, as much as it may seem the companies are shoving it in our faces. As far as durability, as a former boot shop employee, I fixed a lot of buckles, so those break too.
@@SkiEssentials I would be the first to green light the boa; if I were part of the design/marketing group; since its about sales. Salomon has always been first class in boot innovation and spectacular designs, I ski in a salomon from 1992, and it has boa on the inside; now, boa on the outside. I just see it as a nice marketing feature; and you need this style of change inorder to sell boots. Its reinventing the wheel; and adds to the breakable parts, so it adds nothing but complexity. But, people will love it, so to each his own.
@@teddyzamba1396 I rode my boa last season, 115 days of piste and offpiste hard skiing, not a single problem, plus boa has lifetime warranty, if it breaks, they fix it. Worked in a skishop at that time, A LOT of buckles had to be fixed during the season, you may be right but my experience is totally different. PS, there is acually less movable parts in the boa system compared to regular buckles.
I still don't get it why at $800 pair of ski boots they keep the power starp with velcro? Just .......doesn't work! Nothing more precise that power strap with a buckle!!!!!!!
Precision-wise you are correct, and the 130 version of this boot does have the higher-end buckle strap. That said, I prefer the ease of use of the old-school velcro, especially taking boots off with cold hands.
hmmm. bob and I have the same boot size
That's the nice thing about being pretty average in boot size--you get access to a lot of the samples!