I think it's also been confirmed that there will be in the future a living legend status format where only living legends are legal to play so the heroes aren't going to be banned or go away, they're just moving format.
I personally like the LL system, I do wonder how it will be affected as more and more events are scheduled each year. If it can stay properly balanced and we eventually get a Living Legend format then I think it will be a great way to rotate the format.
Great video. With content creation being put first wifey and I aren’t getting to play as much as we’d like and learn the game. The only thing I’m bummed about is not getting a chance to play certain characters before the are rotated out. For instance Viserai is a character I fell in love with because of his art. But I still haven’t had a chance to build decks for him and won’t ever be able to legally play him in blitz now.
Personally I’m more excited by new characters rather than printing new versions of old heroes. I believe James has already said the original 8 heroes will all get a version with a talent, and I hope that’s it tbh. However they do it, though, I’m excited to see whatever new heroes we get!
I am glad they are finally at a point to let the LL system do its thing. It's an exciting way to naturally shake up the meta that inherently players decide. Also, I am more excited for the LL format!
It's a great system, and LSS will pull the needed levers over time to make sure it works. I hope they do something further to celebrate and enshrine the living legends, like a roll call of honor on the hero page for everyone who contributed to a hero reaching Living Legend. Or better yet, when a hero reaches living legend, issue a Living Legend card to them (a hero card that just says Living Legend instead of the hero ability text, similar to but without taking away from the Pro Tour champ card).
I think the real question is how long should we expect a hero to be legal. I think living legend is great but 1 year of legality or less seems short tbh. I would like to see most heroes last 1.5 to 2 years at least almost like a standard card would last in other games.
I honestly assumed the same and I wonder if it's just the accelerated aspects of stores reopening and running a bunch of events post-COVID. If not then I bet they tweak the numbers again to avoid the fast in-and-out of a hero.
Yup, two plus years, hopefully more like 3+ for heroes unless they're busted powerful with oh say 5 card pools (please LLS, never allow this again, and give pure, untalented heroes room to still exist)
I agree, I believe it’s most evident with Bravo Star - it’s away before unlimited (which for many is the only EVR they can ever get). That simply sounds a bit off.
It's awesome... Maybe some people get to not see a certain hero they dislike and others have to run a new one. And there will be a LL format for the big dawgs.
I think that during the Q&A at the pro tour James White said not to expect talent/class combinations to be filled quickly after a hero reaches living legend. I expect it to be a year or two (or more) after Chain hits LL before we get a new Shadow Runeblade.
My local Chane players are sad, but I am glad to see new opportunities to happen for Heroes that haven’t been able to compete. That said it would be nice to see people diversify their hero picks more instead of flocking to 2-3 heroes. But it’s hard to innovate, and I am a bit afraid people will just play the new heroes and get them LL’ed before other heroes get support to meet them.
I have started with FaB two months ago and for me personally the living legend system looks cool but it seems too fast at the moment. When I started there were no living legends and 1st places were at half of points needed. I barely found out how Viserai and Starvo work and they are gone despite they were not present in the table (or were somewhere at the bottom). With so many points from events I think we could see 4-5 new living legends by the end of a year and one of them could easilly be one of the new Uprising heroes. I would maybe prefer to see more targeted card bans that solve meta issues rather that losing whole set of cards. With less points from events there could be also more time for the players to organically find new ways how to deal with meta heroes. The positive thing is that it seems that LSS is already monitoring the situation and they are not afraid to do some changes.
Not a fan of targeted banned cards. Too many games have that problem and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of players that bought into the product. We should just let the game do it’s thing and acquire more LL heroes. Hopefully they start the LL format after the 4th hero hits LL. Predicting all this will happen at the same time as PvE. 2023 is starting to look very promising.
I’m certainly looking forward to the new meta! Starvo has just been awful for the game, so I’m glad to see the back of him. I’ve never been a fan of playing Chane, but he has made for some very interesting game play & deck design. I think once Starvo goes, Prism will be a lot slower getting points as the aggro decks come back out in force. I think decks like her are really useful in the game. Can you imagine if Oldhim started to dominate?? Every game would be sooooooooo long!
I think a Roaster of 16-20 heroes in CC is a good amount, to be diverse enough and isn‘t to much for players to prepare against each hero. So if we see ~6 new heroes each year, I‘m fine with LL the same count every year. BTW: I could imagine in the future to reactivate LL heroes for a season to spice up the meta if needed.
I’m fine with LL rotation it’s a good idea. What’s important is learning how they reintroduce similar heroes. I’m a chane main, I’ve only been playing since jan, and now I can’t play my only deck.
Rotation is always a little sad, but it’s always more exciting to me. Change in competitive card games is fun. In my case for these heroes, it’s only a happy thing. I’m excited to not have to deal with Chane and Starvo anymore
I am excited for the rotation, I am a big Katsu player so Starvo and Chane kicking the bucket as very bad matchups is great. I am slightly concerned however about the speed at which heros are going to leave the format compared to the speed new heros are being introduced. At current pace LL does outstrip current printing of heroes. My hope is that we see a future suplemental set with 4-8 new adult heroes that can use the older cards and mechanics in different ways rather than what we have seen so far with heroes basically being built of stuff from the set they were in and not much else.
I remember when living legend was just a section of the website. Now it's gaining hype with another hero working his way to LL. Everyone start maining Azalea. Let's get her to LL
As far as the system itself, the system is fantastic at self policing those heroes that are too strong. Granted the point level may need increasing in the future to keep heroes from LL'ing too fast. While I love the discussion overall, I don't think that they have the timeframe to print new heroes to replace ones that hit Living Legend between now and the supplemental set. As someone who has worked in game design/development, sets are finished at least 6-9 months in advance of the release date. Don't think they would have enough time to create, properly test, and add a hero to the supplemental set in time for a fall release.
So I've seen talk of a Living Legend format for heroes who have achieved Living Legend. My question is will there be a 2nd tier of living legend, meaning will someone be able to rotate out of the Living Legend into something, say Heroic Hall of Fame.
I really like the LL system; however I am disappointed that they are rotating the weapons as well. As a Dori player I was hoping that a successor would be printed who could use Dawnblade in a new way.
I have a few issues with the LL system. First, as the game grows, it will be important to adjust the number of points that certain events give. If they don’t adjust their numbers, multiple heroes could rotate out very quickly. Second, there is an argument to be made that you shouldn’t necessarily ban a thing that is not broken. There will always be a best thing and banning the best hero will just promote another hero at the top. I don’t know if this is a viable system for a game. First off, it forces the game company to constantly produce new heroes. This could create power creeping problems. It’s also not ideal for an entire portion of the player base. A new player will probably want to play a good hero. However, this hero can’t be too good, because it will rotate out of the format and then the player will have to change decks completely and this comes with a monetary cost that not everyone can absorb.
I guess that it’s also unfortunate to have to give up on a hero that you really like mechanically or just look wise. I hope that they also keep releasing heroes that are pretty simple mechanically (complicated mechanics aren’t attractive for everybody)
I like the idea of LL but i do think heroes are rotating too fast. Bravo was 3 months and now Chain was only 1 year. Magic standard is 2 years before a set rotates out. I know its just the hero but the deck with it is no longer playable for the most part. You can switch to briar or viserai sure but they play way differently to chain so you might be forced into a deck you dont like to keep using your cards. I get their planning on making a LL format but who knows how long thatll be, plus the game is still growing, alot of places can barely get CC going. Its a cool idea but the game is so new ive got to now explain to a casual player that their chain deck is no longer legal and theyve got to switch off it now.
The system always felt weird to me, especially in a game where there is a lot more to get attached to than most games. Like, losing a character is rough, and it doesn't appear that a replacement will be rushed out JUST to have a replacement. It's a lot more impactful, especially to the players who want to focus on a singular class or even character. That said, it DOES force diversity, no deck can be dominant forever and you don't NEED to ban things. And while balance wasn't the main reason for it, it does add some variety to a game that so far doesn't rotate any other way. Will be curious when and how long we have cards stranded and if "replacing" them might mean that we either leave some character specializations on the shelf, or if we lock a certain talent/class combination to one character forever. IE, will Chane be the only Shadow Runeblade or will they let Chane go away at some point for another character, forever "banning" their specialization cards? I am SUPER curious to see how it plays out. But it's ok, I am safe, I chose Ranger as a primary class. lol
I'm all for the LL system...Chane taking over a year to get LL is a good amount of time. Starvo going LL in a matter of months is too fast, but we kinda know what happened with his power level.
LL is great and is working to get rid of decks that are format oppressive or poorly designed. The runeblades are consistently undercosted and strong. Starvo was a mistake definitely, if LSS knew he was busted without the busted briar deck in rotation it should never have been printed.
If you can mobilize the players on a global level to main one Hero you can literally kick every Hero out into Legends in a short period of time.You don´t even need a good Deckbuild to do that.
The only thing I really dislike about this system, is that it completely renders a specific deck or talent useless, like if you want to play a Shadow Runeblade and Chane is LL, you can't play Shadow Runeblade. It's healthy for the format when broken or powerful heroes rotate out, but it just feels bad when a full deck is invalidated, it wouldn't be so bad if they dropped lower power heroes in the same talent or something.
I literally started playing 2 weeks ago and no one told me about living legend. What 2 decks did I buy cards for? Chane and Prism. Now my cards are gonna be unplayable and I spent a bunch of money. I'm done with this game
Biggest fail of LSS is to create a hero which is already LL after 4 month after his release... Another sign that LSS doesn't do enough play testing since ToA. Hopefully they did better with Uprising, because nobody wants another hero which is immediately S+ tier after his release............
I like the idea of living legend but it feels like its moving way too fast for some heros that haven't been around that long. Especially with how new the game is, I could see the potential speed of rotation being a turn off for a lot of potential new players.
Exactly. Me and 3 friends started playing 2 weeks ago and two of us chose heroes that are now living legend. We spent a bunch of money on cards and now they will be unplayable. Definitely bad for new players
i Dislike this system with all my soul! Living legend is the worst system for us as players! i forces us to buy more cards! it might make our legendaries worthless and the more play ers that join this game the quicker heroes will go!
🤌
😂
I love your name lol
@@GTheepicguy thank you 🙏🏻
I think it's also been confirmed that there will be in the future a living legend status format where only living legends are legal to play so the heroes aren't going to be banned or go away, they're just moving format.
Bingo, and I can't wait for that to be a thing at tournaments!
I personally like the LL system, I do wonder how it will be affected as more and more events are scheduled each year. If it can stay properly balanced and we eventually get a Living Legend format then I think it will be a great way to rotate the format.
Great video. With content creation being put first wifey and I aren’t getting to play as much as we’d like and learn the game. The only thing I’m bummed about is not getting a chance to play certain characters before the are rotated out. For instance Viserai is a character I fell in love with because of his art. But I still haven’t had a chance to build decks for him and won’t ever be able to legally play him in blitz now.
Personally I’m more excited by new characters rather than printing new versions of old heroes. I believe James has already said the original 8 heroes will all get a version with a talent, and I hope that’s it tbh. However they do it, though, I’m excited to see whatever new heroes we get!
I'm super hype to see how this plays out. I've only recently started playing the game but I feel like I've jumped in at the perfect time :)
Welcome!
I am glad they are finally at a point to let the LL system do its thing. It's an exciting way to naturally shake up the meta that inherently players decide. Also, I am more excited for the LL format!
It's a great system, and LSS will pull the needed levers over time to make sure it works. I hope they do something further to celebrate and enshrine the living legends, like a roll call of honor on the hero page for everyone who contributed to a hero reaching Living Legend. Or better yet, when a hero reaches living legend, issue a Living Legend card to them (a hero card that just says Living Legend instead of the hero ability text, similar to but without taking away from the Pro Tour champ card).
That's a fantastic idea.
I think the real question is how long should we expect a hero to be legal. I think living legend is great but 1 year of legality or less seems short tbh. I would like to see most heroes last 1.5 to 2 years at least almost like a standard card would last in other games.
I honestly assumed the same and I wonder if it's just the accelerated aspects of stores reopening and running a bunch of events post-COVID. If not then I bet they tweak the numbers again to avoid the fast in-and-out of a hero.
Yup, two plus years, hopefully more like 3+ for heroes unless they're busted powerful with oh say 5 card pools (please LLS, never allow this again, and give pure, untalented heroes room to still exist)
I agree, I believe it’s most evident with Bravo Star - it’s away before unlimited (which for many is the only EVR they can ever get). That simply sounds a bit off.
It's awesome... Maybe some people get to not see a certain hero they dislike and others have to run a new one. And there will be a LL format for the big dawgs.
I think that during the Q&A at the pro tour James White said not to expect talent/class combinations to be filled quickly after a hero reaches living legend. I expect it to be a year or two (or more) after Chain hits LL before we get a new Shadow Runeblade.
I missed the Q&A, so I hadn't heard that before! Thanks for the heads up!
My local Chane players are sad, but I am glad to see new opportunities to happen for Heroes that haven’t been able to compete.
That said it would be nice to see people diversify their hero picks more instead of flocking to 2-3 heroes.
But it’s hard to innovate, and I am a bit afraid people will just play the new heroes and get them LL’ed before other heroes get support to meet them.
I have started with FaB two months ago and for me personally the living legend system looks cool but it seems too fast at the moment. When I started there were no living legends and 1st places were at half of points needed. I barely found out how Viserai and Starvo work and they are gone despite they were not present in the table (or were somewhere at the bottom). With so many points from events I think we could see 4-5 new living legends by the end of a year and one of them could easilly be one of the new Uprising heroes. I would maybe prefer to see more targeted card bans that solve meta issues rather that losing whole set of cards. With less points from events there could be also more time for the players to organically find new ways how to deal with meta heroes. The positive thing is that it seems that LSS is already monitoring the situation and they are not afraid to do some changes.
The faster heroes become Living Legend, the sooner we'll see the living legend play format.
Not a fan of targeted banned cards. Too many games have that problem and it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of players that bought into the product. We should just let the game do it’s thing and acquire more LL heroes. Hopefully they start the LL format after the 4th hero hits LL. Predicting all this will happen at the same time as PvE. 2023 is starting to look very promising.
Just looking forward to play a hall of fame eternal format with no bans and only brokeness...
Duskblade and seeds of agony - bring it on LSS.
I’m certainly looking forward to the new meta!
Starvo has just been awful for the game, so I’m glad to see the back of him. I’ve never been a fan of playing Chane, but he has made for some very interesting game play & deck design.
I think once Starvo goes, Prism will be a lot slower getting points as the aggro decks come back out in force.
I think decks like her are really useful in the game. Can you imagine if Oldhim started to dominate?? Every game would be sooooooooo long!
I think a Roaster of 16-20 heroes in CC is a good amount, to be diverse enough and isn‘t to much for players to prepare against each hero. So if we see ~6 new heroes each year, I‘m fine with LL the same count every year.
BTW: I could imagine in the future to reactivate LL heroes for a season to spice up the meta if needed.
I’m fine with LL rotation it’s a good idea. What’s important is learning how they reintroduce similar heroes. I’m a chane main, I’ve only been playing since jan, and now I can’t play my only deck.
Rotation is always a little sad, but it’s always more exciting to me. Change in competitive card games is fun. In my case for these heroes, it’s only a happy thing. I’m excited to not have to deal with Chane and Starvo anymore
I am excited for the rotation, I am a big Katsu player so Starvo and Chane kicking the bucket as very bad matchups is great. I am slightly concerned however about the speed at which heros are going to leave the format compared to the speed new heros are being introduced. At current pace LL does outstrip current printing of heroes. My hope is that we see a future suplemental set with 4-8 new adult heroes that can use the older cards and mechanics in different ways rather than what we have seen so far with heroes basically being built of stuff from the set they were in and not much else.
Interesting video, hyped for spoiler season
Starvo: Get over here Chane! I need someone to play with in LL!
I remember when living legend was just a section of the website. Now it's gaining hype with another hero working his way to LL.
Everyone start maining Azalea. Let's get her to LL
As far as the system itself, the system is fantastic at self policing those heroes that are too strong. Granted the point level may need increasing in the future to keep heroes from LL'ing too fast.
While I love the discussion overall, I don't think that they have the timeframe to print new heroes to replace ones that hit Living Legend between now and the supplemental set. As someone who has worked in game design/development, sets are finished at least 6-9 months in advance of the release date. Don't think they would have enough time to create, properly test, and add a hero to the supplemental set in time for a fall release.
June 24 is getting closer....waiting to buy 4 cases...
Maybe they should make token heroes. Ones without an ability but that allow people to still use the class cards if they really want.
So I've seen talk of a Living Legend format for heroes who have achieved Living Legend. My question is will there be a 2nd tier of living legend, meaning will someone be able to rotate out of the Living Legend into something, say Heroic Hall of Fame.
I doubt it, but never say never 🤷♂️
Trust i will be on this channel when you reveale that spoiler😊👏😜
I really like the LL system; however I am disappointed that they are rotating the weapons as well. As a Dori player I was hoping that a successor would be printed who could use Dawnblade in a new way.
I have a few issues with the LL system.
First, as the game grows, it will be important to adjust the number of points that certain events give. If they don’t adjust their numbers, multiple heroes could rotate out very quickly.
Second, there is an argument to be made that you shouldn’t necessarily ban a thing that is not broken. There will always be a best thing and banning the best hero will just promote another hero at the top. I don’t know if this is a viable system for a game. First off, it forces the game company to constantly produce new heroes. This could create power creeping problems. It’s also not ideal for an entire portion of the player base. A new player will probably want to play a good hero. However, this hero can’t be too good, because it will rotate out of the format and then the player will have to change decks completely and this comes with a monetary cost that not everyone can absorb.
I guess that it’s also unfortunate to have to give up on a hero that you really like mechanically or just look wise. I hope that they also keep releasing heroes that are pretty simple mechanically (complicated mechanics aren’t attractive for everybody)
I like the idea of LL but i do think heroes are rotating too fast. Bravo was 3 months and now Chain was only 1 year. Magic standard is 2 years before a set rotates out. I know its just the hero but the deck with it is no longer playable for the most part. You can switch to briar or viserai sure but they play way differently to chain so you might be forced into a deck you dont like to keep using your cards. I get their planning on making a LL format but who knows how long thatll be, plus the game is still growing, alot of places can barely get CC going. Its a cool idea but the game is so new ive got to now explain to a casual player that their chain deck is no longer legal and theyve got to switch off it now.
Ayy Armada spoilers on my birthday
As long as they release the same hero in the same class with a different skill i'am 100% fine with living legend.
The system always felt weird to me, especially in a game where there is a lot more to get attached to than most games. Like, losing a character is rough, and it doesn't appear that a replacement will be rushed out JUST to have a replacement. It's a lot more impactful, especially to the players who want to focus on a singular class or even character.
That said, it DOES force diversity, no deck can be dominant forever and you don't NEED to ban things. And while balance wasn't the main reason for it, it does add some variety to a game that so far doesn't rotate any other way. Will be curious when and how long we have cards stranded and if "replacing" them might mean that we either leave some character specializations on the shelf, or if we lock a certain talent/class combination to one character forever. IE, will Chane be the only Shadow Runeblade or will they let Chane go away at some point for another character, forever "banning" their specialization cards? I am SUPER curious to see how it plays out.
But it's ok, I am safe, I chose Ranger as a primary class. lol
There will be a LL format so it’s not like these heroes are unplayable in everything but UPF.
I'm all for the LL system...Chane taking over a year to get LL is a good amount of time. Starvo going LL in a matter of months is too fast, but we kinda know what happened with his power level.
LL is great and is working to get rid of decks that are format oppressive or poorly designed. The runeblades are consistently undercosted and strong. Starvo was a mistake definitely, if LSS knew he was busted without the busted briar deck in rotation it should never have been printed.
If you can mobilize the players on a global level to main one Hero you can literally kick every Hero out into Legends in a short period of time.You don´t even need a good Deckbuild to do that.
The only thing I really dislike about this system, is that it completely renders a specific deck or talent useless, like if you want to play a Shadow Runeblade and Chane is LL, you can't play Shadow Runeblade. It's healthy for the format when broken or powerful heroes rotate out, but it just feels bad when a full deck is invalidated, it wouldn't be so bad if they dropped lower power heroes in the same talent or something.
I literally started playing 2 weeks ago and no one told me about living legend. What 2 decks did I buy cards for? Chane and Prism. Now my cards are gonna be unplayable and I spent a bunch of money. I'm done with this game
Play blitz and play the future living legend format!
Biggest fail of LSS is to create a hero which is already LL after 4 month after his release... Another sign that LSS doesn't do enough play testing since ToA. Hopefully they did better with Uprising, because nobody wants another hero which is immediately S+ tier after his release............
I like the idea of living legend but it feels like its moving way too fast for some heros that haven't been around that long. Especially with how new the game is, I could see the potential speed of rotation being a turn off for a lot of potential new players.
Exactly. Me and 3 friends started playing 2 weeks ago and two of us chose heroes that are now living legend. We spent a bunch of money on cards and now they will be unplayable. Definitely bad for new players
First
I really don’t like the living legend idea.
i Dislike this system with all my soul! Living legend is the worst system for us as players! i forces us to buy more cards! it might make our legendaries worthless and the more play ers that join this game the quicker heroes will go!