Jordan Peterson’s Opinion On The Incel Movement
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- Опубліковано 27 вер 2024
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Chris and Jordan Peterson discuss the origins of the incel movement. What are the origins of the incel movement? Why is pick up artistry to blame for the origins of the movement?
#jordanpeterson #incel #psychology
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What about the femcels
JP(father of a single mom): 'Get back to the longhouse fella and clean your room' . The reason PUAs get jaded is not how different they need to act. The reason they get jaded is when you have a deep understanding of base hindbrain female nature, the fantasy of sugar & spice and everything nice is replaced with it's just your turn with a clockwork hypergamous being that will feel less for you the more she thinks you feel for her.
L?
If I try, I can look better and make more money, but it still wont be enough for women. If I hit on women, I have 80% chance of being rejected, with 20% chance of being publicly shamed as a creep. This system is corrupt and unusable. Its like knowing there's a mafia running a lottery and trying to play it. Eventually you'll lose your kneecaps. So why play? Instead, I want to do Chinese style laying down and parasitize the system. At least then Im not being abused and saying "if only I would work harder". That's domestic victim mentality.
Incels are a myth, change my mind.
There is no incel "movement." The word "movement" implies that there is a unified set of ideas and a leadership structure. There's not.
U cant inform ppl who insist that the current narrative is correct. That is until the majority allows them to belive otherwise.
@Embassy_of_Jupiterso apparently data and logic are stupid now, huh 🤔
Yes, phenomenon is the right word. Perhaps also ideology, though the ideological aspect of inceldom is very vague.
@@nenirouvelliv
Yes, I like "phenomenon" for including the people who are not connected to others and picking up some ideas around it. A more narrow term is "subculture" for those who share certain ideas and values online. The same is the case for MGTOW (spare me the MSTOW nonsense as response).
I think your describing ANTIFA!
Calling incels a movement is like saying the homeless are a movement
It is an online movement.
Great point... both Definitely symptoms of a failed system
@@xGSxAmAZynProblem is the failed system is the female biological system, that's the underlying issue. Jordan has ran up against this problem before in lecture and speeches, about females predisposition for favoring dark triad characteristics, though he doesn't address and expound upon it, probably for fear of backlash at the inevitable conclusions it will draw.
One of which was the same reason he got shit for a interview where he indirectly suggest *enforced monogamy.*
The fact that happened means society knows what the problem is *AND* knows the solutions, but are too afraid to do it.
*Red Pill* won't be denied💊
@wtfdtreats
Incels are a result of an operating female biological system.
You men always tell women to choose better....then you complain when they do.
Is this the same as the "feminist" movement? Asking for friends
"The Incel Movement" How can something be a movement when its INvoluntary?!
Haha well said!
Bowel Movement is involuntary
I believe the hypothesis is that it isn't involuntary through and through, and the parts that aren't, make it a movement
@@mattzx003 You consciously have the ability to change how quickly food goes through your digestive tract? Ok,....
@@Nickelodeon81
I don't think you know what a bowel movement is. google it. everyone has control over this, otherwise we would all be sh*tting all over the floor every day. inability to control bowel movements is called "bowel incontinence" and it's a condition that only old people and s*d*mites get.
Wtf is the "incel movement", these words have no meaning anymore
The incel movement is the gender version of "the nuclear weapons in Iraq"
involuntary celibate, (adj:) 1. not getting any, (noun:) 2. loser 3. basement dweller
@@craigwillms614. WoW player
And treating "pickup artistry" like it's a thing is to buy into incel fantasy.
I agree because we're going to start living in a future where both men and women don't even want to date or at least try it out or mating so to speak such a terminology will be like saying otaku where it's going to be normalized anyway. I'm going Define an interesting if women ended up popularizing the term and making it their own whereas what's going to happen to the lost lonely men who simply got that terminology that was originally for them snatched away by the women are we going to be called Lost Boys from now on
Incel is not a movement, its a vile accusation. No one asks to be lonely.
Brother, stop feeling bad for yourself, take a shower, shave, put on so,e nice clothes, some good smelling lotion and/or a sprits of some semi expensive cologne and go test the waters. Go to the bar, by a woman a drink. Go outside and talk to a woman you find attractive. It ain't that hard
@@PaladinThizzBecause something is easy for you doesn’t mean everyone can do it. I’ve been able to dunk since I was 14 but I wouldn’t pretend that everyone can dunk or that the 5’4 dude just needs to work out and he’ll be able to dunk
@@alexal8088But the short guy can still go out, join a basketball club at the local community center, play, and have a good time. These guys decide that they can’t be in the NBA so they hate everyone who plays basketball. That’s the problem.
@@benu_bird Understand that the short guy can become point guard at best. He won't be the center. He won't make any dunks and without making a dunk there will be no offspring. You whole idea of hate is based on things you have been fed by the msm. The majority of men in the west can be considered inkies, by now. And most of them do not hate all other players. They hate the game itself. How many do you personally know who hate everybody?
@@alexal8088they CAN do it. They choose not to. Thats on them nobody feels bad.
It's ironic that mainstream media slandered Jordan Peterson as "King of the incels" when he routinely tells men that if women don't find them attractive - it's not the women's fault - but men's fault, and it's each man's responsibility to fix it.
Jordan Peterson is a pseudo intellectual. Remember when he was shaming people for not taking the so called "COVID-19" vaccine?
The thing is he’s right to a certain extent but he’s also very wrong. In some instances women are just being too picky and superficial or in other cases a sub 5 male who has bad genetics can’t really do anything to attract women regardless of how hard he may work to improve himself.
That just shows how little they know about him
@@z-rex6068nah he just need to stack some fucking paper
So this is why we get 1 video per month :D
how is it a movement when it is involuntary ???
It's like a bowel movement
loool@@Tom-vq2hw
Most people who are involuntarily celibate don't identify with the incel community
I don't think they're saying the movement is men choosing to be involuntarily celibate.
If a man really want to get a girlfriend, he will.
Its a matter of being lazy and afraid. Both are fixable
Amazing how few people understand what “involuntary” means.
What I don’t understand is why is it so hard to believe that some of us men are not desirable for a romantic relationship.
Like regardless of me being desirable or not….I live my life, take care a my chores, and for no reason in particular I just haven’t managed to find a woman…
I’d wager more people probably die alone than not…it doesn’t really bother me
But I’d guess it bothers them 😂❤
Attraction makes everything you do romantic. If you are unattractive, then your advances will be percieved as cringy...
because some people out here fear accountability, and it disturbs their grandiose sense of self. They feel like they ought to be served. Having to change anything would mean they'd have to do something that doesn't serve them directly and making guys less desperate also means less money
No one ever said it was hard to believe.
@@msnewsenior ha! Fair enough. No one said that word for word, as far as I'm aware.
But I'm pretty sure it's what many people meant.
I WISH, anyone would address the fact that men have been expected to "Put on this show" while women sit there and judge them, and that the Quality of women no longer meets the effort that men have to put in. I just got out of a 10 year relationship, I can say my entire life, I have not met a woman who is really worth it.
"Who can find a virtuous woman? for her price is far above rubies." Proverbs 31:10
In other words, this is not a new problem.
And I'm personally not attracted to that kind of relationship. It puts women in charge and gives them the power to choose and make demands. This is bad for society as we now know, but also not attractive for everyone.
(I'm a guy, ignore the avatar)
pump and dump bro
Try shopping in other countries . I did and no regrets. Satisfied with my marriage so far 😊
I’m a woman and yes I judge. You all judge. We are humans. And if I’m in a relationship I expect to be held accountable for my bs. Its the same with men. We all have similar issues. It’s the lack of character you complain about, not women. Do you know what to look for?
I was an Incel. Thanks to Jordan Peterson now i am an Electronics Engineer by day & Muay Thai Fighter by night.
Still am an Incel😂. No luck with women😢
What woman do you like
Yeah but you sound like a cool dude, so its their loss.
Go your own way king...dont need no women
@@peterberg3446 it's like sayin "dodged a bullet" when you can't get the girl
Get a passport.
I'm going to guess that its men's fault.
@@dreamingmusic3299wait a minute why can't I find the other settings?
Atleast blaming ourselves can help in self improvement. I would rather be blamed and forced to self introspect (regardless of the merit of the blame) than to remain in bliss like women.
@@kshitijshekhar1144unfortunately, I agree. we should be grateful for the gift we were given even if that gift isn’t appreciated by the world
@@kshitijshekhar1144 yes 🙌….except when it’s NOT my fu**ing fault 😂😂😂
what I find funny is that people who assume it's only ever men's fault that it also supposes women aren't sentient and capable of making decisions. Like an input/output system you can get the output you want if you know how the input is processed internally. It's also paradoxical that women's choices must be deemed undisputable as if it was theirs but it's also 100% the guy who must assume complete responsibility for her decision.
A lot of people have huge physical disadvantages and that's just a tough thing. A more universal problem is that general social commons have heavily eroded and it's just harder to meet other people.
Why are we stigmatizing theses men to this extent?
Because some of them drive vans through groups of innocent women. Just a guess, but I think it's bad for PR.
@@JenniferJohnson-ub3gt Like... 0.000001% of them. Yeah very productive use of time and effort. Not.
There is no movement. It's just men realizing the game is too rigged against them and stopped playing the game. Now their priority is themselves, not women. Go free, young men.
Yes, and it's not "incel", because that term implies "involuntary". If one CHOOSES to stop playing their games, it's entirely voluntary.
You confuse incel with mgtow
@@drewschumann1 Nice try. NO
You're describing something entirely different.
Incle literally means INVOLUNTARY celebate
@@vladimirputin4157 There is no incel movement. That's the point. There could be some incels but there is no movement.
Biggest problem I have with the incel debate is how there is never any middle ground when people talk about them. Take me for example:
I think it is a mans responsibility to improve himself if he struggles with women. He is never entitled to get sex from a woman. But...do I think women are privileged when it comes to getting sex? Yes, I think they are. Am I an incel? You can judge.
I find it interesting how there are so many videos of the late incel Elliot Rodger. Part of the reason for that I think is because he is so easy to categorize. He was man who was completely out of touch with reality. A man like that is a gold mine for people who are hellbent on categorizing incels.
@@cobrakaiisback4709 I disagree with an 8 having an easier time than a 6. Women aren't as physically attracted as men are. A 6 can have more success than a 8
Yes it is female priviledge to be asked out and payed for on a date..
@@indicphilosopher8772 Given that sex is one of our primal needs, I would call it a privilege.
Why do you call that a privilege?
@@tangbein Sex isn't a need you won't die if you don't have sex, if that were true there would have never been eunuchs.
I've seen men survive everything: tragedy, illness, war, death.
Yet, the only thing I've seen that can completely destroy a man is a bad relationship.
@@kc6810 I'm gonna go ahead and call you a liar, because living alone is one, if not the most important factor in longevity/survival.
@@kc6810such BS lol.
@@adriadelafuente3648 women wouldnt live alone, most of them have friends, but if you look violence on women comes from partners
@@gaia7240 She used the word dying here.
There is a gap between dying and being hit. And no, hypothetical behavior is not an argument, not when the DV rate for lesbians is higher than straight couples.
@@adriadelafuente3648 I don't understand what you think it's hypothetical
This is something I've been talking about for a while amongst the ASD community. Pick-up artist had some seeds of very very useful and needed therapy with top quality motivation for young ASD males, (which can be very difficult to sufficiently motivate) but it wasn't designed for long term personal mental health. Personally I dipped my toes into it with a cautious eye over a decade ago and it did me the world of good and has allowed me to build the life I have with the people I hold close. But it's also got a lot of darker aspects and there are a load of lessons that can be learned the wrong way. Hopefully this will help a little in the discourse around teaching applied psychology for young men and especially those on the spectrum.
The pick-up artist community has been overtaken by frauds, grifters, and sex "addicts"*.
Sharing these ideas can be done for free. Having some training and coaching for people would also be fine, but the rules of marketing and attention brings all the focus to the most outlandish actors which might also be willing to spend the most on advertising.
It's important to have a meta structure above all these parts of the manosphere which guides men to use the right tool for the job, dependent on who they are and at which stage in life they are and which goals they have.
* I don't like calling things an addiction which don't cause physical pain or strong withdrawal symptoms when stopping.
Well said.
Pick up artists have terrible advice and most of them get outed as fraudsters anyway
What's ASD?
These conversations about incels always focus on what men should do to “improve”, when the truth is, many women today are just too damn picky and they’d rather stay single than to “settle” for anything less than their dream guy.
Are women too picky?
You want women to settle? Them when things don't work out you tell them they should have chosen better.
You tell women to choose better...then complain about it when they do.
Just excuse to give up and them blame others for ur failures..
This wouldn't even solve the problem completely, since there's not only the Blackpill in regards to looks, demographics shows that some men won't have a chance.
I got to have standards, just imagine if I was to settle for someone like yourself...
@@evalangley3985 Sticks and stones young lady, lol..
Reminds me of Uncle Peregrine’s line in Evelyn Waugh’s “Sword of Honour” trilogy.
“One only has to look at the ghastly fellows who are a success with women to know there can’t be much point to it”.
Based.
The point is you're getting laid and not complaining on the internet about how you ain't getting laid. Most incels are just too afraid to talk to women. They talk to one or 2 women a year and then give up. Increase the numbers you talk to and you'll increase your odds. And learn how to build up sexual attraction without seeming creepy or desperate.
@@PaladinThizzhow do you build sexual attraction?
@@christodotl it's different with every woman. But I found humor, good conversation (basically letting her talk and then responding based on what she says, andbeing confident helps. Also looking good (nice fashion sense), having good hygeine and being confident helps. I usually would just test the waters and ask for a kiss and most times it would escalate from there. After that you've got a nice sexual relationship. If she turns you down just move on. Know your worth. Sometimes I'd get it on the first date. Sometimes I'd wait a bit. Even when I saw obvious signs she was ready to go all the way. It's actually easy to get a woman in bed, it's hard to keep her at your side. Building sexual attraction isn't actually that difficult, building and maintaining romance is. If you're just looking to get laid it's mainly a numbers game. Even for attractive men you will not get every woman. But if you are not afraid of rejection and are comfortable with yourself and confident enough you can get laid pretty often. But getting laid only satisfies for a small amount of time. Eventually you'll want something deeper (no pun intended) and that's where the challenge actually begins.
Ah yes, that highly organised and disruptive ‘incel movement’ 😂 Jesus Christ
"Incels, take me to your leader!"
@@randomnobodovsky3692 he ded.
Jordan criticizing Tate when JBP raised a daughter who for fell for Tates schtick... Fiction couldn't write the irony any better
She didn't fall for him? She used him for clout ?
@@catcat9582 😂 people believe as they NEED to believe. I'm sure her and Tate just played cards😂
@@ariesostia126 he's not attractive even if he didn't have his beliefs tho... he objectively is not a Chad
@@catcat9582 ok so looks and beliefs aside
1. Rich
2. Famous . Most women are done right here with those two
3. Pre-selected (AKA got other women)
4. Ripped. Your right. not Chad in face, but body is in shape.
And that's about all it takes.
@@ariesostia126 ew
The root of it is not bad behavior from men. It's bad behavior from both men and women, driven by technology.
Thats exactly what I was thinking.
Would love to see the 'Crappy Childhood Fairy' on your podcast. She talks about C-PTSD and has helped make sense of why I self isolate, would be interesting to watch a conversation between the two of you
What really makes PUAs and other men jaded is seeing all the women who are married and in relationships that are willing to cheat.
ordan so is condescendingly judgemental -- as he pontificates on how all of us can be perfect , if only .... yawwn. typical product of elitist school...
It's the only thing that works. The only date I ever arranged was the first woman I used the pua tricks on. Was so disgusted a girl who spent endless amounts of time claiming to want a nice guy and the first asshole who was mean to her got a date in minutes. Being the nice, considerate, diligent, honest, or gentlemanly gets you a seat under the collective toilet of society. A society that tells you that you need to be that guy. It became obvious the winning move was not to play. I can't imagine a relationship having any benefit outside children.
@@timothydoyle9635 That's why throughout human history women didn't have rights. The modern experiment of giving women rights is a disaster.
Women will cheat on a whim if the Lure is high enough and the Distance from her long term partner is large enough she wont get caught. Never let your woman travel to another country alone.
@@timothydoyle9635there really isn't any benefit at all. I think that's the catch 22 of all of it. Including our biology.we see the evidence, we watch with our own eyes, experiences. But it's that hope, thst drive that keeps us going, and there's nothing wrong with that, I think our problem is, doing what we want. Be a good man, not a nice man, there's no virtue and respect in nice, because nice is default to keep a society from going anarchy, it's the social order. Everyone can be nice, learn to integrate the shadow as he has said. I think that's our biggest problem as men, is not thinking about us, and our wants more.
What's the alternative? Marrying a woman who also went through half the town and now (above the age of 30) pretends to be a saint while keeping the same inflated ego (thinking she deserves the best while I should handle her at her worst) feminists have nowadays? And then inevitably get divorced once:
1. you get tired of being considered nothing more than a plowhorse in a unit (your family) which should have your back
2. she files for divorce because she's gonna be alright anyway thanks to the state benefits and the legal system
marriage has been completely ruined for several generations of men, and the men are just now waking up to this fact en masse.
You must think all unmarried self-sufficient women over 30 are hores.
That's MGTOW.
The question is why YOU couldn't be part of that half-town that went through the woman?
@@krisrap3828cos im ugly.
"Incel"? Nice overused and meaningless buzzword.
I know a hús how calling shaolin monks incels 😂😂😂
like misogynist or oppression
The problem I have with asking 50 people out, or even three is... That just makes them all seem like they are replaceable, and you are acting on progressively less substantial foundation. Which likely would mean a lower probability for a successful relationship.
But also, If the women knew you asked someone else out. Would they feel special?
I can't agree more about the exposure therapy, I don't think we face our fears enough these days. To overcome our flaws or restraints. Instead, we coddle and shield. "Oh I don't like strangers talking to me, it's creepy" They are human beings. Talk to the homeless man on the train. It might not be a great conversation, but it's better than treating him like a lepper. or the obesity sensitivity, where for a time even doctors were getting sued over diagnosing someone as overweight (Early to mid 2000's). 6:27
...Also if you go to a mall and ask 50 women out, someone's going to complain to security and likely get you thrown out and/or arrested, and/or on the news.
They are replaceable. So are you. Realize that. Stop idolizing them. They're people just like you.
If they know you asked another woman out that makes them want you more, because you seem like you have options. Women do not want a man no other woman wants. They're not special. They're the same as you or I. And I guarantee you they will not treat you the same. Once you break that habit of chasing after some girl who is keeping you as her backup plan, you will start to see success. I refuse to be am option. Your own mindset keeps you celibate
Ain't it interesting that Chris is an "expert/authority" on manosphere topics but never talks to any of the content creators from the space.....
He gets mad if called "Chad williamson" thanks to stardusk lmao
@@Albus_Rex - Stardusk is the best.
He is not an expert in anything dude.
Jordan Peterson describes psychopaths as "emotionally stable." I would have to disagree and say that they are actually "emotionally dead."
@@mekareactsandreviews3026 1:52
They've emotionally flat, which presents as stable if you don't know better. I'm not a psychopath but I come across as incredibly even tempered, many people have told me so, to which I laugh and say if only you could see inside my head.
@@jonrazo7912i have found my people lmao
sounds like the average modern woman.
I missed the point. I clicked this video solely for the title. But only the first 2 minutes are talking about the topic.
Chris: Incel movement
Peterson: Incel movement -> psychopaths -> Tate -> his interviews -> something -> something...
Also element which sounds delicious
Also, Peterson it totally into the idea that women are good at picking the right guy and the guy is not good enough if they don't pick him. Then he criticizes learning to manipulate them.
Something that gets left out here is that bars are where bad women go to get picked up by bad men, and that good men should not get suckered in to the PUA scam, because that's all it is.
It's very hard to find good women. Everyone has their baggage. It's all about experiences.
Guys are jaded with pua because they've realized it doesn't work if you lack looks or status/money. This is what predates blackpill philosophy. And it's not a movement ffs. How can chris and jordan be so clueless
Jordan is a boomer and Chris never had those problems
Nobody with high LMS could understand
@@ralfrudiger7276Similar to how boomers talk about "just buy a house, because back in my day you could work at a gas station and have a family, house and white picket fence."
Yeah well it's not your day buddy, y'all released the females now we have to deal with this bullshit 💊
@@dreamingmusic3299 if it were so effective then it wouldnt be dead. Pretty much no one is doing cold approaches in the mall etc. Also, just imagine a short unattractive dude trying to fake confidence and do "negging" or other crap. How effective could that be?
@@dreamingmusic3299 just an observation that their presence diminished a lot. Same goes for clubbing and other social activities. Just by virtue of this, pua is not really tenable anymore. It's all about online game(and LMS) now
Not everything is a "movement" but a collective reality.
Not just blowing smoke with that one.
I just don't get it? Where is the big problem with being an "incel"? If you leave them alone and you don't constantly hit on them, they would just get on with their lifes.
But I know, being single and a man is more a less a crime nowadays. Either you are a predator or you are a sick creep, who can't get any girls. Whilst a woman living with her cats? Hey, she is having a blast!
To my understanding the term "incel" implies a certain amount of mysogyny and general resentment. By which I mean the label, not the people who technically qualify. This might be one of those cases where the public discusses a thing that doesn't really exist. Like, most dudes who opt out of dating would probably not call themselves "incels", because aligning themselves with such a group has nothing to with their thought process in the matter.
@@Volkbrecht ok. Let’s say I’m NOT smoking crack every week. Is there a word for people like me?
Ok ok, now imagine, I’m NOT having sex every week….now suddenly there’s a word for people like me? 😂 just for not doing something?
Yea, yall can blow me ❤
@@Volkbrecht Well, if you opt out of dating there is much more mysogyny and general resentment involved. Because there is a reason, why they stopped dating. And I know a lot of them. And it is not because they want to be closer to god. Speaking for myself, I opted out of dating a long time ago and even rejected a lot of woman, because I did not want sex or a relationship or else. Even in my teenage years, I rejected woman, although I "as one of my female friends said "could have any girl I want to". And whe I dated or had sex, they have always been older then me, because I could not stand the things, girls in my age had to say. My only relationsship I had, was with a woman, that was 20 years older than me. Oh boy, you can't imagine how much hate I got especially from young women. Some men found it ridicilous (mostly those with a wife and children), but all the others were ok with it and some said I hit the jackpot. Since my girlfriend couldn't even go to the grocery store, where often enough not some "normal guy" hit on her, because "hey, dating is most normal thing, and every occasion and every place is now free to get dates" I really don't get, where the problem with incels is. When I was younger, I also knew an actress and model and she had the fucking same problem: Nearly no occasion, where not some random dude (who even always was about ten grades under her league) hit on her. And these men would be considered normal. So explain to me: Where is the problem with incels?
No problem.
It is used as an insult although in the word is the part "involuntarily" so those don't want to be alone yet they are (could be many reasons).
Rather than laugh about them or insult them, they should be viewed as some sort of victims. Society should lift them up and msybe help them imo.
Being incel isn't the crime. Hitting on women who don't t know you then raging out when it doesn't work is. Wait that's not really a crime either it's just assy and gross.
Incel is just someone who is not chosen and ignored by women. If society isnt happy with how pickup and red pill has evolved then dont its not our fault. Women are the ones who dictate what men learn and do.
😂tf
Jordan is thinking about the individual rather than addressing that it's now 50% of men. Where is the meaning in life is there is no chance of having a family?
A woman should have children with one man. There is about 1 woman per man in this case. Conservative values will make close to 100% of men to have children.
The question i asked myself, is really worth to have a family those days? Raise kids to turn gay, addicted or feminist? Tough times, the natural instinct is to have a family, but the headaches doesn't seems to be worthy.
They keep pretending that it's a minority, because most of men are incels in denial.
Having a family isn't the only way to have a meaningful life. Your life has whatever meaning you decide to give it and that's enough
@@cezao93people don't turn gay, they are born gay and being gay or feminist isn't an issue
Most men in relationships today would be in cells after woman cheated on them. Most people have no idea how rough it is out there on online dating for men and how easy it is for women.
People know but they just dont care. They either aware aware of the truth and dont care because they aren't affected by it directly. Or they are oblivious to it due to ignorance and living in their own bubbles and being brain washed. Or they know and dont say anything because they know it is futile becuase society by and large doesn't care and will lie about you, and defame your character and message if you do try to speak the truth, so why bother.
Go outside
@@racheltarentino3314 no I'd rather not this time of year it's quite cold. Although I'm outside the rest of the year always doing kayaking, going to the beach, amusement park, going through the woods, four-wheeling, going to all the playgrounds, as well as work.
@@racheltarentino3314 I'd be more apt to tell you to go outside as women have no hobbies on average They say ridiculous things like watching my TV shows that are smut or reading smut books. I think my dear it is you that statistically needs to go outside and touch some grass. But you oh my God they have like bugs outside
Andrew Tate lives rent free in this guys skull.
He barely talks about him 😅😂...Others ask him about Tate..
@@mekareactsandreviews3026 No one asked him about Tate here but he went out of his way to bring him up. Peterson is 100% jaded that his daughter went to visit him in Romania and that Tate captured a large portion of what he considers his audience
PSA: Incel, definition
Incel (involuntary celebate) is a gender neutral term. Coined by an incel woman(!). The largest group of Incels are handicapped and/or disfigured people, followed by people with non-hetero-normal sexual orientation, then followed by heterosexual men, the vast overwhelming majority of which aren't misogynists but timid, shy, intimidated by women and/or the mating game and - often as a result - depressed.
To emphasize: Noisemakers on the internet aren't representative of Incels, despite what the misinformed public or some dimwitts on reddit think about the term.
Please stop perpetuating this ill-informed misrepresentation of Incels at large.
Thank you.
Society understands very little about incels
"Society" cares more about women, but the wave of older femcels is swelling. Then they will complain about men not taking care of them and how we should feel lonely or how we are not men if we don't.
Do the math, Tinder came out 2012. The women which were around 18 back then are now around 30. This is the time when they realize that they might have wanted children at some point in their life and also not be single when old. And other people realize the demographic impact... REEEEEEE
We completely understand - men unwilling to put in the self development that it takes to become desirable to women. because they think they’re entitled to sex and shouldn’t have to do anything to earn it.
... and, as is the norm (when it comes to men), society *cares* even less.
Most of Society understands very little about anything truly. The more one wakes up and becomes genuinely informed and develops their own critical thinking skills and starts to see the world for what it truly is after swallowing the red pill and not just what they were programmed or indoctrinated into thinking the world is by others. They realize everything is a lie and smoke and mirrors and society is extremely lost, ignorant, opinionated, dumbed down, and brain washed about nearly everything.
You're right.@@drewmantia
Chris, I've listened to JP for a long time. But he's developed the unseemly talent of interrupting. Even if you're right interrupting is rude, it wears people down and they will eventually flee. The patience you showed him was extraordinary and Impressive. Appreciate it and I appreciate your work.
he's sucked for a couple years now, especially whenever he cries about online anonymity
Lol
nah@@trel9388
He has always interrupted a lot, it’s very frustrating and rude. I could barely get through his ‘interview’ with Matt Rife as it was just 70% him babbling and not prioritising his guest.
@@trel9388 sounds like a take I'm not inclined to believe.
They keep missing the point. It is jading to REALIZE that women LIKE that PUA BS drama. It is jading to REALIZE that women LIKE Andrew Tate. This speaks very poorly to women's taste and discernment... and thus to women's LTR value.
Yeah, being highly attractive to women almost requires low character. They're not remotely worth sacrificing yourself
This is what i was thinking.
Let me guess: he will blame it on male competency and not taking responsibility. Not women being super choosy and only wanting chad. I’m in good shape, probably stronger than 98% my age, a top 10% income earner for my age in a f500 working on a second stem degree…. Doesn’t matter. Women want guys with an attractive face
I'm from South Africa. Are you willing to immigrate?
The irony is they will call him "the incel king" even though he says the most opposite "incel" take so i don't know why he won't at least admit women play some part in this and that the world is becoming way more superficial due to the internet
If it's short term they'll pay more attention to appearance. If it's long-term they'll pay more attention to your competence. And your experience doesn't speak for everyone else. Maybe you just need a new hunting ground, Kraven.
You have to be a lot of things, in shape and wealthy is helpful but you have to know how to navigate the chaotic mind of women and be competent with it. Plus there's a tone about this rant that makes me think you've just discovered the red pill. It's ok, you'll accept the way it is and it'll pass.
maybe it's your personality.
What is really strange in general from a male perspective, is that social, media, dating apps, etc., instead of bringing the genders more together than ever, it resulted in men having very few, to no options at all, I think it got even worse tham ever before.
all the advantages are on womens side, more than ever, but its now so exaggerated that men cannot even remotely compare the life and options, and advantages of their looks match.
As much as I love both these guys, they completely missed the mark on Tate. The reason he is popular is because he actually is winning in the meta, being rich and having had many women. We moved from a place where being above average attractive got you female attention to a “winner takes all” situation, where you’re competing against the highest status guy she ever slept with.
Just tate?
I think assuming many more men and women operate within that framework than actually do. The majority of men and women I’ve spoken to in real life and seen online are not overly concerned with that whole Tate idea of attractiveness. What you’re describing is not the ‘meta’ for most people
i am married 28yrs and am an incel. She made me that way.
At this point, it's your fault for not cheating. If you've tried everything you can to change this without it, and she refuses to budge, you should've cheated. Got no one to blame but yourself at that point.
“Incel” itself is an insult. It’s not a movement, it’s barely a group. It’s becoming a vague, meaningless label like “virgin,” “loser” or lately “nazi.”
Why the fuck is everyone so fixated on whether it qualifies as a movement or not?
I know a lot of women and I have NEVER heard one say they consider Tate "attractive". Quite the opposite in fact.
Are you single? Would you prefer not to be?
Cool, welcome to the movement.
It's not a movement. That word doesn't help men to move forward in the dating market.
Tate is more in sync with reality than JBP.
(And I have no ambition to be like Andrew or anything of that sort.)
Tate smashed Peterson's daughter.
That's what I'm saying. Jordan Peterson will break down in tears about how so many people are struggling especially men. I think that's legit. When it comes down to tates followers struggling, all of a suddenly their basement dwelling losers. Why doesn't he care about them? because the common denominator is Tate.
He's mad that his wisdom couldn't prevent the female nature, that he claims Tate is wrong about. 😂
Tldr; Peterson just hates tate😂
You where there recording it?
Back to basics. A woman used to be earned and extremely valued
They also used to have value.
Jordan never answered the incel question. He just likes hearing himself talk.
What incel question?
JP is looking so tired and older here. It has been a tough few years for him. He seems like he’s fading. But his tie is spritely.
True
I used to like Jordan Peterson, but he became to arrogant to follow. Too self absorbed of his own opinions and reflexions. Behind his speech there is this "I'm the prophet of the lost young men... I am the truth!"... Yeah right...
It’s age of narcissism. Warped self image with High expectations leads to massive failure and cope. Not everyone deserves everything. Be appreciative of what you have.
There is valuable information in the PUA community. The extremes are unappealing.
But the *results* matter, and one is getting results and the other *isn't*
Small flaw: The term itself includes "Involuntary". You understand that?
Now you add the word Movement.
Involuntary agents cannot be part of a movement.
Start over.
The dudes who self identify as 'incel' don't exist in any meaningful numbers.
You both are intentionally framing this in a very disingenuous way.
The only way to suggest there's a 'movement' would be to use it unilaterally across many subgroups; as if the vague derogatory function of the word has intellectual merit.
How can having a discussion about people who don't see themselves as the subject in question be anything more than propaganda?
>The dudes who self identify as 'incel' don't exist in any meaningful numbers.
maybe they don't call themselves "incels", but there is a rapidly growing mass of lonely, frustrated, and angry men that don't have any connection to women, despite wanting it.
they also ignore the fact that women find 90% of men unattractive online at least.... I mean is that mens fault? is it heck... does not stop JP though throwing HIS customer base under the bus whilst making money from them
Yeah well , your daughter has been with Tate looking at castles.
In his Bugatti.
Hmmm
Well that’s the proof no matter of parents, kids will do what they want.
I’m a parent and that’s hard to say.
I think a serious point is missing. I've never had a problem dating woman. I read a book about pickup artists and found it interesting and incorporated some of their techniques to help with approaching women in a more light hearted and fun way. The problem I came up against, wasn't me being a narcissist, but being disillusioned by how utterly vapid and fake women are. It actually became too easy to pick up women. I've since lost much respect for women due to this.
Never look at how the sausages are made :)
Maybe women who respond to those techniques are the vapid ones?
Of course the Chad goes on about how easy it is. You don't have severe disabilities like some of us
In the gaming world, "Incel" is what replaced the terms "Geek" and "Nerd" as the default derogatory term.
That's because geeks and nerds are cool, now. So you have to find a new term to stigmatize them.
Hence, Incel.
Geeks and nerds grow up to become incels... That's how it works...
Or entrepreneurs@@WealthEngineering
Women can sing-handedly solve much of this cultural problem by prioritizing building families at a younger age instead of spending their reproductive years chasing a career.
You're right, but what do you think the odds are of that happening?
IMO, the 1950s are never coming back.
@tacituskilgore8747 I think a cultural shift is in the works as we speak, but it won't look like the 1950s. Women simply need to flip the script reverse the order of things they pursue e.g. family and then career. There are many more advantages to this and it still provides freedom for everyone to pursue their interests while contributing to stable birth rates and family structure.
As the father of a 10 year old girl, I would strongly disagree. If she chooses to have a family at a young age because it makes her happy, I would fully support that. However, if that's not what she wants, I don't give a flying f about society, she needs to do what makes her happy and would have my full support either way.
@@LordRykard9376 How sad, that men needed to wait till so much damage is done to understand it. And even now it's just empty promises. "Just make your career later" ...long time men have misused their power and would find excuses not to allow women to work. No wonder women don't believe in empty promises anymore.
Women are progressive and that is not going to happen now.Women are waiting later in life to marry,if they do.
Great podcast and phenomenal guest. Thank you for having this conversation. I needed a positive starting point and your podcast is helping. Then you
@@dreamingmusic3299Tf are you talking about? Have you even watched the video?
Inceldom started to become more observable with the internet, but I would say it started in the 60s/70s with the permissive society and the lax attitude toward sexuality. They are bitter because they have been effectively told that for them to be full citizens of society they have to be sexually successful and are able to get into relationships. That's what happens when promiscuity in general becomes a virtue instead of a chaotic mess.
Jordan is misunderstanding some things here. Most of those people are not "undesirable".
They are very successful when they go to traditional countries.
Like who 😂😂 getting women in traditional countries requires more charm and more game than America because you’re competing against real men and the women are more conservative
@@cvrki7excuse me ur subscribed to soscast. He explains it
@@cvrki7 As a European I have to say that's absolutely true. If you're a whimp in Western Europe, don't even bother going to Eastern Europe, they will rip you a new one if you are not manly enough. Women there don't tolerate bullshit and neither do the men.
Not necessarily, a man with his methods of income sorted, the intention to build a family has real chances to get a wife in many places
@@cvrki7 No, not really. Women in traditional countries don't have inflated standards. So, an average guy can normally get an average woman.
The main issue with the west is that women have unrealists expectations. Average women want only the best of men, so they end up alone, since best men are rare and don't want to marry easily.
Nah I have to say Jordan and Chris are both completely off their rocker on this one. PUAs aren't losers, nor are they psychos. There is nothing wrong in going to tell a beautiful girl that you like her, and there is no excuse for inventing reasons not to do so.
*A Person, especially a Man shouldn't be judged or put down if he decides to open himself up to others, making himself vulnerable.*
*Its admirable if someone says something like ''I want love and intimacy but I feel as if I cannot achieve this in this society and their standards''*
*and talking to each other.*
*But its another thing if you start generalizing women, hating them without differenciating and even reject other people with the same problems*
*just because they are women. It plays into the whole politicized modern day gender war and is absolutely counterproductive to achieve what they*
*actually want in live.*
*Women dislike it just as much if they get generalized as men do and the frustration is understandable but we should rather blame political agendas, the constant presence of social media which allows everyone to get their opinion out there no matter the emotional state or the fact that these kind of people often get viewed as a representation for a whole Gender.*
_Not a single person that is lonely at the moment should be called ''Incel'' or ''Femcel'' and deserves a fitting shoe to form a pair_
_Because a TRUE incel or Femcel, who's actually Misoginistic or Misandric are not a representation for these kind of people_
Something missing from this video clip is their definition of an incel. For me to formulate an informed decision, I need a specific definition of an incel. And no, not YOUR definition, I need THEIR definition. I can tell you that when I was young, I was socially awkward. I didn't have a girlfriend in high school, nor many friends to speak of. I could have become bitter from it, but I didn't. In fact I ended up getting married. However that was back in the late '70s / early '80s. There was no internet for me to commiserate with others and influence my thinking. It's one thing to analyze "incels" and talk about how bad they are. It's a whole different discussion to understand how this all came about. Our society as a whole is a LOT different now, and not in a good way. I've seen plenty of videos of the perverse dating atmosphere nowadays. It's not good. And divorce laws are still stuck in the '60s & '70s. They have not kept up AT ALL. Then throw in academia and our society's notion that men are oppressors, especially white men. There's "toxic masculinity" and the "Me Too" movement. In the meantime, women on Only Fans are celebrated. Guys who are accused of sexual misconduct in college are automatically guilty with no due process. Women can do it all and don't need a man. Traditional blue collar manufacturing jobs have pretty much disappeared. Right now there's a lack of wholesome role models for young men. All this stuff has a cumulative negative effect. Being a senior white male, I feel there's a target on my back. I'm literally at the bottom of the barrel right now. Glad I don't care. One thing's for sure, I'm glad I'm not a young adult amidst all this. These "incels" didn't just pop up. I think that society created them. Just like a good cop or a good politician can be corrupted by "the system", so can young men be corrupted by "the system". And right now "the system" sucks.
Vol-cel here. A happy man 😅
miking incels for money and viewers is the job of all these podcasts especially one who feature jp
Incel is not a movement. It is a description of certain circumstances.
As for guys getting more mad after trying to do the PUA thing.....That is a result of failure, especially if you have been conned into thinking you are not going to succeed. If they do manage to get laid using those tactics, they are not going to suddenly become remorseful and feel bad about who they have become.
We all know if it was women who were this disproportionately effected by loneliness due to unrealistic and hypocritical standards set by men the narrative would be very different
@@MyriamRichardsdotter Nobody silences women in the western world, it's practically considered a crime to even disagree with one these days. However, soon that might not be the case if islam continues to spread throughout the west. Which makes it kind of ironic that it's predominantly women who want to accept more 'refugees' and have open borders.
And i can guarantee it's not on the same level, an average woman has a far greater chance of finding a partner than the average man, they can increase those chances even further with the use of cosmetics (not even surgery)
Very interesting and satisfying commentary. Superb video.
As someone who was an incel and overcame, I think a big issue is the assumption of attraction and finding love.
Our society/culture assumes A-priori that the standard norm is having relationships and dating. The standard is set at being found attractive by the opposite sex (it's the assumed default).
Maybe that was true at some point in history (HIGHLY doubt it but it's possible) but it's certainly not true now.
And for the people failing to meet this standard it can be uncomfortable at best and absolutely depressing at worse to miss the mark. Men think they're at a deficit, they think they're doing something wrong... when in actuality this is the true standard/default. Loneliness with no romantic partners is the baseline. Men want an explanation or reason for why they themselves are unattractive, but the question is backwards. You really should be asking what makes any man attractive because our starting point as a gender is being undesired.
Why is it important to correct our fundamental assumption?
Because when we do that we realize that men shouldn't be held at "fault" for being unattractive. They're not doing anything wrong per say, they're simply at the natural starting point (women are inherently sexually desired. Men are not. Therefore it's not YOUR fault you're not sexually desirable. It's simply the nature of the game you find yourself playing).
Improvement is possible with effort and you can get to companionship(s), of course, but to torture yourself or feel guilty/lesser than for the lack thereof is simply proof of misunderstanding. You're not in the hole or in a basement or in debt, you're not doing anything wrong or making mistakes... you're just at the norm. And once you let go of the baggage and negativity that comes with being at a perceived deficit, you'll find it much MUCH easier to move forward. To evolve, learn, and grow.
I don't think for a second it's helpful for a man to think he's somehow personally to blame for being sexually undesirable. I agree with Jordan Peterson on a lot of things but this ain't one of them lol. Men have the agency to improve their lot and pursue better outcomes, of course, but they should get their fundamental assumption right before embarking on that journey.
You can make things better, but it's 100% not your fault that you found yourself in a hard game where rejection for men is the norm and acceptance is the exception NOT the rule.
You have it backwards. Attraction wasn't much of problem as long as the provider/caregiver distinction between men an women was in place. People had to settle for what they could get because otherwise life became mostly unmanageable. These days it's different. Men and women can exist apart from each other, so romantic/sexual attraction is the only thing drawing them together initially. These forces just don't make for stable relationships. For that, couples have to install their own kind of necessity, something they want to stay together for.
@@Volkbrecht explain how exactly do I have it backwards? Would love to know. Because to say that is to say that men are at totally at fault for women finding them unattractive (that's the inverse of my assumption).
Fyi your comment doesn't attack or debunk my argument. In fact, it makes a completely separate point about cultural/economic shifts and relationship dynamics (and one that I don't disagree with for the record lol). Genuinely trying to understand your approach here.
@@austinjrb well said, and its true jordan is a bit out of touch but he's also 61 years old and has a family, things were very different when he was in the dating market, there is definitely a level of disconnect in some of the things he says
While it is true that women start out with a base line of being attractive, that base line can be actively and collectively ruined. And it has, though the divorce rate, MeToo, hook up culture and the like. Once men begin to see women as "weird, unattractive drama" they won't WANT to become attractive to them.
@@fnordiumendures138 I think you're right and this is already happening to a degree. What incentive do incels have to change?
Some people would say "well obviously they get to have a woman and be in a relationship" but it's not exactly obvious to me that this is an improvement 😭🤣 anyone whose been in a relationship or dealt with women knows what I'm talking about (some more and others less).
Speaking personally, even as a muscular dancer who speaks well and has charisma... I don't chase or pursue women like I expected myself to once I got to this level. It's hardly worth the time, energy, and STRESS just for... what? And I knew I was sold a bill of goods, lied to, when I heard a top tier male dating coach complaining about women/dating. This guy is VERY well known online and reputable, he's definitely got game, yet behind closed doors he voices the same frustrations in his life of dating that regular men do.
That one was an eye-opener to say the least lol.
Focus on establishing your livelihood and developing life skills, rather than winning the affection of a woman, that a wrong priority.
Ok.
You 'fake a persona'? These idiots don't get it. If you're choosing to put on a persona, then THAT IS YOU. Obviously. Feigned confidence? That's an oxymoron.
so just because i don´t get no matches on online dating apps, and cold approach doesn´t work for me, i am an incel ?
it is also your fault do not forget that part... JP says there is nothing wrong with women but plenty wrong with men... lol
So he's calling all incels psychopaths... I'm not surprised, struggling men are the easiest group to shit on for virtue points.
Isn’t that the American way: fake it till you make it?
This is describing my path through my 20s pretty well. Do badly with women, find pickup, do better with women, become jaded and genuinely misogynistic.
Thankfully I pulled out of that nose dive, as it so happens, with the help of Jordan Peterson. This was around the time he started blowing up because of the trans bill in Canada.
I'm not fixed. I'm a continuous work in progress. But I am much better than I was when I first heard Jordan speak. I think his ideas are the antidote a lot of us need.
Pickup made me see women as little will-less machines where inputting the right series of actions made them pliable. It was an awful mindset. There are useful skills I learned from the practice, but it took me a long time to fully see women as people again.
Thought I was misogynistic for a while but realized its just general misanthropy. Did oddly decent with women despite not being that attractive though. Being "mean" seems to scratch an itch with a not insignificant number of them.
I assume you have a girlfriend now ?
I'd recommend Julianhimself, his channel is unlike any self improvement u will see
Sherlock Holmes and Moriarty is the example that comes to mind about "your enemy is your harshest critic..." (That or Batman and the Joker).
If we can call men Incels, can we call Chelsea Handler an Old Maid?
hag
why someone living in a basement is a looser? that is a phrase that only narcissists who think they are above others think.. I "triumph" and you don't, therefore, you are a looser.
There is not an incel movement. Its just a symptom of societal collapse.
Gawd bless Murica
Being an incel is not a movement - it's a condition or state of being - temporary or permanent (depending on the reasons). There are many reasons for this - some are self-inflicted (bad hygenie, obesity, personality issues, etc), poor timing/choices, bad luck with genetics/health, and/or misaligned standards (on both sides). There have always been a small number of these people and likely will be - what's more interesting to me are the red pill/MGTOW folks. In the past, wars were fought so some guy could have access to the woman he wanted, but today we have folks just walking away. So interesting.
I will say that for men that make enough money to buy a passport and plane ticket - there are other options. If that is you, you aren't an incel, you just are playing in the wrong field.
Think about the phrasing here. The incel movement. The *involuntarily celibate* movement. There are not movements for things that are involuntary.
It’s funny my wife assures me that her lady friends young and old do not find Andrew Tate to be remotely attractive- in fact he is revolting on so many levels. This is why they say he likes much younger literally girls - naivety and impressed by his cars etc.
talk is cheap when they will likely never be within 50 miles of the guy.
women routinely rag on "assholes" that they then return to sleeping with again and again and again
pfft, women love men like him, but they also believe the MSM says, your wife included
All women's exes are always assholes according to them
There cannot be an incel movement. Incel is by definition not organised.
Why can’t y’all live your lives without revolving it around us women? Genuine question…
Exactly. There are so many incels in the comments inveighing against women and it’s honestly pathetic.
lol everything you use like the phone you have to make this comment was made by a man
and now that you guys have what you need you dont need us anymore
well guys who aint your type lol
anyways yes a lot of us are mad bc we struggle and it aint our fault
we either need money or something to keep yall around and many of us are just waking up to the fact that we'll never be any girls type
@@MikeJensen-w2v So if you all can’t be with a women or have offspring then what’s the next plan? If people don’t want to be with you, then there’s only two options left, which is to find another purpose or don’t.
@@IClockedTfOuttaYou927 Why do you care?
@@nocturnaljoe9543because we don’t want to deal with hateful men who might murder us.
Would we accept people calling hungry and starving people "hungries"? Would we accept them being shamed for not being able to meet a basic human need? And would we accept them being dehumanized based on their failure to meet that need? Would we let those people explain it away by saying "It's just a term that means you don't have access to food, it's not a slur". I don't think we would and I think we would consider it hateful
Interestingly, Chris is Amog-ing incels. Denouncing the low status people so harshly is likely an attempt to distance oneself and thus, seem above it. It’s a kind of virtue signaling. His to lack of charity toward this group tips his hand. Same with JP.
Yeah, this is one of the few areas Jordan continually disappoints, for me. I'd *really* like to see him actually fucking sit down with Tate (or Rollo or RSD or one of the other big Red Pill guys or groups) and *actually* talk with them to see what they're about and what they're teaching. Perhaps even - God forbid - *improve* what they're teaching without it losing its essence and effectiveness.
@@ilovejettrooper5922 he is beyond ignorant when it comes to dating, JP is your typical academic, totally obsessed with written theory and thinks it is factual. He has no facts on his side regarding dating and relationships in the modern era.. even his daughter used a guy for his benefits then discarded him as soon as was not needed. I wish he would shut up about this, you cannot listen to a guy that has not even dated, chased one woman around for years who then settled with him and he fortunately has not been through divorce.
Why is this such a big deal. There is so much thing to do in life then to be wasting your time worrying about why you're not getting girls. Leave that to date. You be your own company. Solitude is much more precious and valuable than people think.
not everyone can handle that though
solitary confinement is torture and thats what being alone is like when youre poor and have nothing to do
INCELS have always existed. But the fact that now they are more anxious than ever, is a sign that society's values have gone haywire. We are taught to value those things about ourselves, that have very little value and do not represent who you are (but who others are).
Jordan sure gets mad about tate and incel culture.
...almost as if his daughter got-with one, and had a baby by the latter (do the homework)
Nah I'd prefer if you just said it, as you are the one making the claim. Who are you talking about?
So, "Trial by fire", "Sink or swim", and What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger". Got it!
Weak men look at success and become embittered. Strong men look at success and become inspired. If someone tells you you're a loser, think really hard on why they said that.
I fought like hell for years. Years of suffering and failure and I never gave up. It took along time and countless times failing but I always got back up until one day I made it in life. Compared to the life I had before which was hell.
No one is a loser unless he is a drug addict or something. Money doesn't always mean you are smart or capable. Most of the time money are a matter of chance and opportunity. Not everyone can be rich, it is impossible. It amazes me that people can't understand this simple fact. Being average working Joe doesn't mean you are a loser. Only psychopaths would call an average man a loser.
His initial point about learning the script and finding it to be effective, etc. - is there any evidence that all that 2000s PUA stuff was effective, though? Other than dudes lying on the internet about how effective it was for them, I mean? I always assumed it was snake oil