The 331s which I sometimes use on the Manchester to Blackpool line operate in 3x2 formation. This of course results in 6 coaches , quite well suited to a busy service. One advantage of these trains which you don't mention here is their impressive acceleration. This has made quite a difference to punctuality on a route which is challenging with congestion in central Manchester and stations which are relatively frequent on stopping services. The ride is certainly firm ( similar to my Spanish built car!) but all things considered a massive upgrade compared with pre electrification days.
I’m a huge fan of the class 195/331 very comfortable and enjoyable especially when zooming along the Calder Valley line on the Limited Stop Leeds - Manchester runs.
Shhhh 🤫, don't tell anyone but the Bradford FS to Skipton trains are an absolute dream, so quiet and empty to travel on. Proby due to the fact not many people want to go to Bradford!!! (even though I actually really like it and much better than Leeds for me)
Personally I quite like the 195s and 331s. Nice atmosphere and decent facilities. A huge step up from a pacer or a 150. My only real complaint is that the 195s really should have been four carriages to begin with as well as 2/3 carriages just isn't enough and that they need a load more of these to get rid of the horrid 150s. I've tried all the CAF trains in the UK and the 195s, 196s and 331s mostly seem well suited to the journeys they are on. The 197s though look nice but are completely unsuitable for the services they operate. Very busy and often overcrowded 2/3 car trains being replaced with more 2/3 car trains but ones that have less seats because of the 1/3 and 2/3 doors. The seats on them are off the same variety as the 800s too but feel much harder and more stiff somehow.
I'm in the unfortunate few who can't take your seat reviews seriously seeing as you like the class 800 seats (litterally the definition of sore back/backside)
tbh I don’t have a problem with the ride quality of the 331’s or 195’s. Yesterday I travelled from Southport to York with Northern. The 195’s from Manchester to York were quiet and comfortable (including climate control). The worst offender was the 150 from Southport to Manchester; noisy, limited seat space and draughty! On the 331’s and 195’s they seem to have got the auto announcements under control, at the start it was excessive and loud - so there’s one improvement!
Northern operates services that calls at all stations between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester stations, while TPE and TfW services are the "fast" ones.
We have these and 158s on services through Barnsley - I actually prefer the 158s, very comfortable, quiet and smooth. The newish CAF trains feel like being on a bus.
The Class 331s come in two varients. The Class 331/0 are the 3 car sets that are found in the North West (being based at Allerton TMD), and the Class 331/1s which is the one you are on are the 4 car sets that are found in Yorkshire (being based at Neville Hill). I do in fact live in Skipton (Hurray, my local station and local line!) and have ridden on the 331s quite a bit going to Leeds and Bradford.
Would love to see you one day get off at Keighley and ride the KWVR. If you really want to torture yourself they even have their own Pacer in an old school MetroTrain livery running up and down it on occasion these days 😂😂. I'm a little bit biased being a local but Oakworth has to be one of the prettiest small stations in the entire country.
I have travelled on them between Manchester and Preston, the ride is jiggly but acceleration is impressive. The bays of 4 around a decent table are also nice.
CAF and hard seats seems to be a common theme. The CAF Urbos 3 tram seats are as hard as granite! Not fun on a journey between Birmingham Edgbaston Village and West Bromwich Central.
I do like the Class 195 DMU and Class 331 EMU Civity trains that CAF have built for Northern. And they quite nice trains that CAF have manufactured. And with Northern wanting to have more new trains to replace the ageing trains that are over 30 years old.
Sit in the centre of the cars away from the bogies and the ride isn't too bad. But what is all the rattling from the bogies, surely someone should be looking at how to stop it?
I had a direct comparison of a 195 and a 158. Having travelled on a 158 from the east Midlands to Sheffield, there is a fair bit of track from dore and Totley, which I then retraced on a 195 towards Manchester. The difference in ride quality was stark. That said the rather busy 195 was still good for a local train.
4:00 well, in Italy the Alstom Coradia Meridian trains (known as Minuetto and Jazz) also feature an accessible toilet as the only toilet in the train. This can become a not so pleasant situation, since some services do longer journeys, and some trains are six carriages long (even though the Coradia Meridian carriages are shorter than the average stand alone carriages)
195s and 331s provide the bulk of the services at my local station, so I use them quite often. When they were first introduced, I thought the ride quality on both was appallingly clunky, but now that they're properly bedded-in, ride seems to be much improved. I like the interiors though, and the seats are fine, even if travelling a long distance. You're correct in saying that there should be more than one toilet though; it's not uncommon for the single toilet to be out-of-use.
Nice new modern interiors on these trains. CAF bogies must be made to perform on European standard lines, here in the UK they are bloody awful. Jiggling and fidgety bouncing ride. Not good for a new train.
Not a great lover of any of the CAF DMUs, simple change of seating would solve a lot of the problems, also the 2 car sets in use on the Nottingham-Leeds service are well short on capacity.
Many thanks. Did Northern test a Civity train or get a prototype before committing taxpayer’s to a less than perfect train? Or did it just look good on paper?
I recently rode a 331 from Crewe to Piccadilly. It was pretty good in my opinion. The seats were comfortable enough, not plush or well padded but decent enough for the ride. A lot of comments mentioned the suspension. I didn’t notice have an issue with it but I can definitely stand a few bumps instead of the underfloor vibrations when riding diesels.
Interesting to read the positive comments. While the acceleration of the 331 is very impressive, I can't stand them or the 195s. I'm not nostalgic for older trains, but I find these poor. I found the seats very uncomfortable for even a short journey and the ride was rough (I gather that seems to be a common CAF problem). The railway has got to do a lot better, but with the DfT calling the shots, I can't see it happening any time soon, sadly.
Definitely related; both are built by CAF with Siemens traction. The HX was class 332, though, and all were scrapped in 2021 and replaced with the less comfortable and more generic 387s, making it even worse value. Even more reason to take the much nicer Elizabeth Line
i really like the 331s - nice interior, the ironing board seats are comfortable enough for up to an hour and a half or so (which is about as far as you will ride on them), the ride quality isnt great but i dont find it uncomfortable so havent minded it
At first I was disappointed that Hadfield/Glossop did not receive these new trains but having used them the 323’s are in certain respects a better quality ride, certainly smoother.
Rather hit and miss overall. The hard seats could be tolerated on a relatively short journey like this, but a rattle and bump filled ride is a much bigger problem as it affects everything the entire time. It seems like at this late a date they would have managed to fix this.
Like John, I'm a regular commuter on the Blackpool-Manchester route and greatly appreciate how these units have improved that service. (Can still be sardine-like when they turn up as a short formation during the rush hour.)
I dislike the 195/331s Definitely fast trains especially the acceleration on the 331s. Ride quality is poor. The inability to walkthrough joined up sets. Most the 4 car 331s are in Yorkshire compared to more 3 car we see in north west. 319s are better than 331s 158 better than 195. Interesting CAF MK5s for TPE are being withdrawn as there falling apart so TPE short form chaos will grow. Dread to think if the 195s have to last as long as the 142s.
Those trains actually seem quite nippy, certainly more acceleration than the 333s (at least from what I saw), meaning they'd also have more acceleration than any diesel variant. For those that cannot drive, I wouldn't say the service offered is that bad, although if you do have a car then it may be worth considering driving, as for such a short distance, the non-railcard walk up fare seems expensive.
I actually quite like the 331s. They go like stink when they want to which is worth being rattled around a bit as it only adds to the sense of speed. The seats are hard but there seems to have been a new law passed that states all new train seats in the country should be designed to give the passenger a sore arse after half an hour of sitting on them. At least on the 331/195 there’s a good chance you won’t be sat on one for longer than that. I guess, however, after years of Sprinter and Pacer operations any new train would feel good. They are more aesthetically pleasing too with nice wide cabs untroubled by gangways.
They are alright and so far only found in the southern part of Northerns area and i have never seen them in the north east.I suppose that they might get up in the north west,the 195's, maybe to Carlisle via the coast but as i rarely go there I don't know.
I found the other day that the infamous ironing board seats seem to have migrated to the refurbished Cl 158s - talk about progress backwards! The 158s used to be fairly comfortable, but I was getting a numb behind after only 15 mins. Oddly the refurbished Cl 156s seem to have escaped this horror so far.
The best thing about the 331's in my opinion is the acceleration. Quicker than the 333's, and far quicker than the 32x's that Northern used to have on the Triangle and Leeds to Doncaster routes. The good thing over the 195's is the fact they have enough carriages. 2 car 195's just shouldn't have ever been a thing.
Apart from the Caledonian Sleeper and class 196 I have travelled on every single type of CAF train and it baffles me as to why the ride quality is so bad (apart from the class 333s). The 331s in Yorkshire are adequate for the amount of time you would normally spend on one,but the diesel class 195s which also operate near me are a train which are operating on routes which they are just not suited to.
I may be wrong, but I believe CAF used wheelsets from Siemens on the 333s… which might explain why they’re the only ones that don’t feel like they’re going to rattle you to death 😆
The 331s which I sometimes use on the Manchester to Blackpool line operate in 3x2 formation. This of course results in 6 coaches , quite well suited to a busy service. One advantage of these trains which you don't mention here is their impressive acceleration. This has made quite a difference to punctuality on a route which is challenging with congestion in central Manchester and stations which are relatively frequent on stopping services. The ride is certainly firm ( similar to my Spanish built car!) but all things considered a massive upgrade compared with pre electrification days.
I’m a huge fan of the class 195/331 very comfortable and enjoyable especially when zooming along the Calder Valley line on the Limited Stop Leeds - Manchester runs.
Shhhh 🤫, don't tell anyone but the Bradford FS to Skipton trains are an absolute dream, so quiet and empty to travel on. Proby due to the fact not many people want to go to Bradford!!! (even though I actually really like it and much better than Leeds for me)
As a local to the Airedale line, the Bradford branch is dead and the Leeds branch is mainly packed.
Personally I quite like the 195s and 331s. Nice atmosphere and decent facilities. A huge step up from a pacer or a 150.
My only real complaint is that the 195s really should have been four carriages to begin with as well as 2/3 carriages just isn't enough and that they need a load more of these to get rid of the horrid 150s.
I've tried all the CAF trains in the UK and the 195s, 196s and 331s mostly seem well suited to the journeys they are on. The 197s though look nice but are completely unsuitable for the services they operate. Very busy and often overcrowded 2/3 car trains being replaced with more 2/3 car trains but ones that have less seats because of the 1/3 and 2/3 doors. The seats on them are off the same variety as the 800s too but feel much harder and more stiff somehow.
I'm in the unfortunate few who can't take your seat reviews seriously seeing as you like the class 800 seats (litterally the definition of sore back/backside)
Just a small correction, the locks that you showed coming out of Bingley were the 3 rise locks. 5 rise is the next set of locks further up the canal
tbh I don’t have a problem with the ride quality of the 331’s or 195’s. Yesterday I travelled from Southport to York with Northern. The 195’s from Manchester to York were quiet and comfortable (including climate control). The worst offender was the 150 from Southport to Manchester; noisy, limited seat space and draughty! On the 331’s and 195’s they seem to have got the auto announcements under control, at the start it was excessive and loud - so there’s one improvement!
Interestingly, Northern also operates the regional services between Manchester and Liverpool.
Crazy to think 3 operators cover that route and it’s still packed whenever I travel 😂
Northern operates services that calls at all stations between Liverpool Lime Street and Manchester stations, while TPE and TfW services are the "fast" ones.
We have these and 158s on services through Barnsley - I actually prefer the 158s, very comfortable, quiet and smooth. The newish CAF trains feel like being on a bus.
I recently got on a class 331 and I thought there are great trains, but around Greater Manchester.
The Class 331s come in two varients. The Class 331/0 are the 3 car sets that are found in the North West (being based at Allerton TMD), and the Class 331/1s which is the one you are on are the 4 car sets that are found in Yorkshire (being based at Neville Hill). I do in fact live in Skipton (Hurray, my local station and local line!) and have ridden on the 331s quite a bit going to Leeds and Bradford.
Would love to see you one day get off at Keighley and ride the KWVR. If you really want to torture yourself they even have their own Pacer in an old school MetroTrain livery running up and down it on occasion these days 😂😂. I'm a little bit biased being a local but Oakworth has to be one of the prettiest small stations in the entire country.
I have travelled on them between Manchester and Preston, the ride is jiggly but acceleration is impressive. The bays of 4 around a decent table are also nice.
CAF and hard seats seems to be a common theme. The CAF Urbos 3 tram seats are as hard as granite! Not fun on a journey between Birmingham Edgbaston Village and West Bromwich Central.
I do like the Class 195 DMU and Class 331 EMU Civity trains that CAF have built for Northern. And they quite nice trains that CAF have manufactured. And with Northern wanting to have more new trains to replace the ageing trains that are over 30 years old.
Sit in the centre of the cars away from the bogies and the ride isn't too bad. But what is all the rattling from the bogies, surely someone should be looking at how to stop it?
I had a direct comparison of a 195 and a 158. Having travelled on a 158 from the east Midlands to Sheffield, there is a fair bit of track from dore and Totley, which I then retraced on a 195 towards Manchester. The difference in ride quality was stark. That said the rather busy 195 was still good for a local train.
Omg I literally saw you 😂😂😂
4:00 well, in Italy the Alstom Coradia Meridian trains (known as Minuetto and Jazz) also feature an accessible toilet as the only toilet in the train. This can become a not so pleasant situation, since some services do longer journeys, and some trains are six carriages long (even though the Coradia Meridian carriages are shorter than the average stand alone carriages)
195s and 331s provide the bulk of the services at my local station, so I use them quite often. When they were first introduced, I thought the ride quality on both was appallingly clunky, but now that they're properly bedded-in, ride seems to be much improved. I like the interiors though, and the seats are fine, even if travelling a long distance. You're correct in saying that there should be more than one toilet though; it's not uncommon for the single toilet to be out-of-use.
Nice new modern interiors on these trains. CAF bogies must be made to perform on European standard lines, here in the UK they are bloody awful. Jiggling and fidgety bouncing ride. Not good for a new train.
In The Netherlands the SNG trsins from NS aren't comfortable due to the bit hard seats
Not a great lover of any of the CAF DMUs, simple change of seating would solve a lot of the problems, also the 2 car sets in use on the Nottingham-Leeds service are well short on capacity.
The 331s are a bit like sports cars - fast as hell but with suspension and seats as firm as a brick haha
Tbf, that sums them up perfectly 😂
Many thanks. Did Northern test a Civity train or get a prototype before committing taxpayer’s to a less than perfect train? Or did it just look good on paper?
Are the two varieties able to be driven together, diesel and electric?
No problems with the seats, ride nor fare on this route. Takes all sorts, I guess :-D
I recently rode a 331 from Crewe to Piccadilly. It was pretty good in my opinion. The seats were comfortable enough, not plush or well padded but decent enough for the ride. A lot of comments mentioned the suspension. I didn’t notice have an issue with it but I can definitely stand a few bumps instead of the underfloor vibrations when riding diesels.
Interesting to read the positive comments. While the acceleration of the 331 is very impressive, I can't stand them or the 195s. I'm not nostalgic for older trains, but I find these poor. I found the seats very uncomfortable for even a short journey and the ride was rough (I gather that seems to be a common CAF problem). The railway has got to do a lot better, but with the DfT calling the shots, I can't see it happening any time soon, sadly.
The missus looked rather demure in the video! Weren't these the old Heathrow express trains or am I imagining things?
Definitely related; both are built by CAF with Siemens traction. The HX was class 332, though, and all were scrapped in 2021 and replaced with the less comfortable and more generic 387s, making it even worse value. Even more reason to take the much nicer Elizabeth Line
i really like the 331s - nice interior, the ironing board seats are comfortable enough for up to an hour and a half or so (which is about as far as you will ride on them), the ride quality isnt great but i dont find it uncomfortable so havent minded it
At first I was disappointed that Hadfield/Glossop did not receive these new trains but having used them the 323’s are in certain respects a better quality ride, certainly smoother.
Dylan I’ve Class 331 trains on the Airedale and Wharfedale Lines.
Rather hit and miss overall. The hard seats could be tolerated on a relatively short journey like this, but a rattle and bump filled ride is a much bigger problem as it affects everything the entire time. It seems like at this late a date they would have managed to fix this.
Compared to the pacers we had before these things feel like something from the future.
I use these between doncaster and leeds and they look cool but the seats remind me of the thameslink class 700s seats
Like John, I'm a regular commuter on the Blackpool-Manchester route and greatly appreciate how these units have improved that service. (Can still be sardine-like when they turn up as a short formation during the rush hour.)
I dislike the 195/331s
Definitely fast trains especially the acceleration on the 331s.
Ride quality is poor. The inability to walkthrough joined up sets. Most the 4 car 331s are in Yorkshire compared to more 3 car we see in north west.
319s are better than 331s
158 better than 195.
Interesting CAF MK5s for TPE are being withdrawn as there falling apart so TPE short form chaos will grow.
Dread to think if the 195s have to last as long as the 142s.
Great trip. Can't wait for well known Green Coach travel. Again, classic CAF problem.
Those trains actually seem quite nippy, certainly more acceleration than the 333s (at least from what I saw), meaning they'd also have more acceleration than any diesel variant. For those that cannot drive, I wouldn't say the service offered is that bad, although if you do have a car then it may be worth considering driving, as for such a short distance, the non-railcard walk up fare seems expensive.
Sometimes I just watch the vids to see his gorgeous other half
Never been on them
Civities
All Leeds MOT
I actually quite like the 331s. They go like stink when they want to which is worth being rattled around a bit as it only adds to the sense of speed. The seats are hard but there seems to have been a new law passed that states all new train seats in the country should be designed to give the passenger a sore arse after half an hour of sitting on them. At least on the 331/195 there’s a good chance you won’t be sat on one for longer than that. I guess, however, after years of Sprinter and Pacer operations any new train would feel good. They are more aesthetically pleasing too with nice wide cabs untroubled by gangways.
The profile of the seats is wrong. The cushion should slope backwards at 10 degrees.
WiFi and a vending machine and it would be a super service. Thanks for the ride. 🇺🇾
Boa tarde Dylans lindo trem gostei
They are alright and so far only found in the southern part of Northerns area and i have never seen them in the north east.I suppose that they might get up in the north west,the 195's, maybe to Carlisle via the coast but as i rarely go there I don't know.
So muck better than here in Arkansas U.S.A,. For a short distance I could maybe tolerate the seats.
Could the ride quality be a consequence of track maintenance?
Can be, UK railways are by far one of the most ratchet infrastructures I've seen, only second to my home country's in Venezuela lol
@@WildWildWeasel You haven’t seen US railroads.
@@davidlazarus67 that one is third too, especially the level crossinhs
I assume the ride quality is still better than the Pacers 😅
I'm rather large and those seats look like some form of instrument of torture.
The 331s which operate in and around Greater Manchester are 3 car units
I found the other day that the infamous ironing board seats seem to have migrated to the refurbished Cl 158s - talk about progress backwards! The 158s used to be fairly comfortable, but I was getting a numb behind after only 15 mins. Oddly the refurbished Cl 156s seem to have escaped this horror so far.
The seats are fine
Can you do the Doncaster to Leeds Northern Metro service
Are they carpeted or laminated flooring throughout? And are the seats more or less comfortable then the LNER Azuma standard class seats?
Carpeted
Initially I wondered what a Citivy was.
The best thing about the 331's in my opinion is the acceleration. Quicker than the 333's, and far quicker than the 32x's that Northern used to have on the Triangle and Leeds to Doncaster routes. The good thing over the 195's is the fact they have enough carriages. 2 car 195's just shouldn't have ever been a thing.
Train from Bradford Forster square to Bradford interchange ?
There’s no direct connection between the two. You’d have to go via, and change at, Leeds.
@@srfurley there is if you know the underground tracks
That's Nick Badley territory, haha.
Oooh, please do a heritage line again, please!
Apart from the Caledonian Sleeper and class 196 I have travelled on every single type of CAF train and it baffles me as to why the ride quality is so bad (apart from the class 333s).
The 331s in Yorkshire are adequate for the amount of time you would normally spend on one,but the diesel class 195s which also operate near me are a train which are operating on routes which they are just not suited to.
@stepheng7586 you could if you travel to The Netherlands travel in a CAF Civity SNG Sprinter
I may be wrong, but I believe CAF used wheelsets from Siemens on the 333s… which might explain why they’re the only ones that don’t feel like they’re going to rattle you to death 😆
Great video Dylan....
I think they are really good
My home turf😂
Hi young man hope you are well
GREAT VIDEO
I remember when the Class 308s worked this line!
I remember when steam worked the line son
@@s125ish Bit before my time
Hi Joe, could you review ScotRail 334, ScotRail 380, scotrail 318, scotrail 320, Glasgow commuter bus, tpe 397 nova, awc voyagers, tfw 197, tfw 230, thanks
Dylan*
J o e
He has already looked at TransPennine's 397 and Avanti's 221
Ok@@JackJackProductionsShorts
Northern Class 331
Bro, it is so obvious you are both unemployed and just a comment spammer
@@JackJackProductionsShortsHarry Elliott needs to be blocked
I do love the scenic views from Skipton Station. Great video, thanks Dylan.