I'm expecting a lot of backlash for this video, but please keep the comment section respectful. I'd also love to hear the perspective of other women. Here are some additional points I'd like to make: . Clive taking Garuda's essence from Benedikta was clearly a triggering and traumatizing experience for her... Being stripped of your power, having your agency taken away and all without your consent... It all mirrors her past SA. So I think her despair and consequent rage feels realistic. It's raw and disturbing, yes, but well written on that regard. . Which brings me to point 2, why write this in and potentially trigger some of your audience if you, as the developers, are going to continue to objectify the character? Garuda, the Eikon of Wind, being bent over, on her knees during an entire battle sequence after almost being assaulted by thieves... Is inexcusable. . That tainted my perception and makes me think they just used the SA scene as a cheap shot to justify Benedikta going on a rampage and try to make you feel bad for her dying. I cannot reiterate enough how much I love Final Fantasy, it holds such a special place in my heart... but this has truly disappointed me. And I think it's important to remain critical and respectfully bring some things to light. Much love and stay safe.
I do empathize with your feelings as personal experiences shape how we respond to how traumatic events are depicted in media. As a military veteran I have completely lost interest in playing my once beloved war games as I am put off by the unneccesary violence. However, I do believe that storytellers should have the freedom to explore various traumas and portray their characters in whichever way they deem is best for their story. FF16 is not a happy world, and it's not afraid to explore the many ways that people are exploited due to their backgrounds, social class, gender etc. I would have to disagree that using SA as a motivation for a character to lose control as cheap as that kind of trauma is rarely explored in RPG stories. Meanwhile, Clives motivation for losing control (losing a loved one) has been played to death. At the very least a trigger warning like the one you posted should be available to players so they understand what they will be confonted with if they choose to continue. Hope you dont quit as its a great story!
@@sirbear9396 First and foremost, thank you for your service. And thank you for such an eloquent and respectful point of view, I really appreciate it. I agree that a that a trigger warning from the game would have been thoughtful. And I'm very sorry to hear that you can longer play certain games. Maybe I haven't been able to express myself clearly, since English isn't my first language. I do think that trauma has a place in the media and can play a very important role in raising awareness. Moon Knight has done an excellent job at portraying trauma, for example. And like I mentioned in my previous comment, I commend the writers for for how well they wrote Benedikta's fallout after having her powers taken away. That followed up by an attempted SA by the thieves, while showcasing her past trauma and Cid helping her... That was raw, visceral, but well written in my opinion. I was disturbed, yes, but I didn't have any critiques up to that point. My issue rose the moment we fought Garuda after she decided to go on a rampage given everything that had just happened to her. I felt bad for all the players who are possibly triggered by this scene and then immediately having to fight her while Garuda is bent over, on her knees. I think that's disrespectful to the players who unfortunately were triggered by this. That is my critique. She is the Eikon of Wind, they could have played that battle many other ways. If they were insistent on having her fight Clive on the ground, they could have done it like XV Titan vs Noctis. If they wanted a badass, femme fatale, sexy battle then I stand by the fact that they should have scrapped her SA backstory out of respect for any victims who may be playing this game. I've seen SA portrayed in a couple of games, but they were purposeful and didn't objectify the characters. It can be done successfully... I think that's why I was so disappointed that Final Fantasy, a franchise I hold so dear to my heart, couldn't do that.
@@DudettePlayz First of all, I'm sure you're quite busy so thank you for taking the time give such an articulate response. Hopefully people take a moment to read and digest it before jumping to any rash conclsuions. After some reflection I can see how her pose during the Eikon fight seems a bit out of touch. It's interesting as its not something that stood out to me personally my first time around. I think this is a great example as to why its important to seek council from people with diverse experiences and backgrounds when developing a story that tackles so many raw issues. Personally, I find it such a missed opportunity that we didn't have a kick ass fight that included us fighting Gardua via an airship or something similar. I know as FF fans we expect only the best from the stories told through the mainline series. It's certainly disheartening when you see something you really love miss the mark. As a final note your English is increadible, I dont think anyone should have issues understanding you. Looking forward to your future content.
@@sirbear9396 Thank you, this means a lot! All I wanted from the beginning was to have a healthy and a constructive dialogue about this. You've set the bar high, so once again thank you.
what is the point of a story without conflict if nothing triggers or make you feel or learn anything what is the point? it would be a bland monotone piece of politically correct fluff . if you have ever watched game of thrones that is where i would set your expectations at that level.
Yoshi P and his team love symbolism. To those thar aren't used to FF14, they may have flew over a lot of FF fans out there with this game. The nudity is used to depict the fragility and feeling of exposed to the characters. This will be used frequently throughout the game. And the position of Garuda during fight was showing her being desperate. She's on her knees trying to get rid of all that is not fair to her. Sometimes flailing around. It was never meant to be sexual.
I completely agree. Since you mentioned XIV, I feel like her reaction to Garuda kind of reminds me of some of the XIV community's reaction to that one "swap" section in Garlemald. There were a surprising amount of people who failed to see what the purpose of that section was from a narrative standpoint. I don't know. The team for XVI was very, VERY clear before release that this was going to be a mature game with mature themes, and I find it insulting to the creators to claim that they were in the moral wrong for making certain decisions. I'm glad to see that there are other men in the comments talking about how they didn't see the Garuda fight in a sexual way, cause I never saw it that way either. Sure, there are going to be Internet-addled idiots who will sexualize that portion of the game. But those people already do that, and for anything and everything (see: Twitch streamers who see anything remotely sexual and absolutely must make a joke about it). I wouldn't use that as evidence to say that this section of the game was done in poor taste. Legitimately, nothing at all in the game felt "fanservice-y" to me. Everything, even the SA and the other things that you mentioned, felt like they had narrative or character-building purposes. I feel bad that she took this portion of the game negatively, and I respect her for being honest about her distaste for something. However, claiming that this or that was the *wrong* decision and scrutinizing the developers for it is very disingenuous and frankly rude.
I think you're just overthinking things regarding Garuda being bent over. If you were the developer, how will you have Clive and Garuda fight? Also, Garuda is currently playing with Clive at that stage, like a cat who plays with its food.
There are many tragic characters, especially among the ones that were good people all along. I will care about those first before I care about Benedikta. She was a villain and was shown doing cruel things without remorse. She had her choices, and she chose to follow the king rather than Cid.
Yeah you'll probably notice the thing with Eikons that hints whether or not their Dominants are in control: Their eye color. Blue implies they are can control their destructive power just fine. Yellow means they've gone bananas crazy with the reckless use of their strength and powers that are akins to nukes...such as Ifrit in crazy mode going 2 for 2 on bird type Eikons. It's not directly stated but it's those visuals throughout the game such as this whole section you played through. Yeah the positioning of Garuda on her knees was awkward looking back on it and with how mobile she already it, the wild Eikon playing around with her prey like they before going in for the kill could've been handled different. Implications of SA...yeah I'm not sure if Square realized how their actions in those sensitive spots could've been determined and hopefully they learn their lesson in their next time (I mean I know this is rated M but still...). Benedikta herself was definitely a victim of how rough these nations wars get when she was serving Walooed: Leading a special unit, rejecting Cid's ideas of a better world and being devoted to Barnabas to avoid harsh living situations of Bearers, coming across Clive and his reliable Torgal, losing a portion of her powers that would've kept her from slavery status of sorts (you'll learn about how harsh that side is soon in the game), and being in her lowest point that ultimately doomed her (If it was full primed Ramuh vs Garuda, there's a chance he could've just knocked her out, and not overcook her like a wild Ifrit). I wouldn't call her a derogatory term (Clive's mom more than fits that bill) as she's in an interesting gray area of an unforgiving fantasy realm like Valisthea that's abundant of tragic characters....and this is still in the first act of the narrative with more story along the way. As for why Clive was naked...well with him figuring it out (thank god they didn't drag out that plot point and revealed it to him a couple of hours in), Cid must've figured he was have suicidal tendencies and find a nearby sharp object...and Clive wouldn't be a first FF central character with those types of thoughts. There is also ATL (active time lore) to help keep track of who's who and learn about who Odin's Dominant is since you actually saw him with Benedikta in one of the very few nude scenes in this game (Tomes in the Hideaway has those type of lore details). As far as accessibility options go, you have plenty of options to tweak around with and plus a virtual combat simulator in the Hideaway. I've seen people use the ring of timely dodging in their let's plays to make it more streamlined (practice makes perfect as Garuda, pre-Ifrit, was my first death of the game). This is one of my favorites FF's in the series but it takes practice with the combat to get the hang of it (though being backed against a wall just sucks with the camera, think of it like a secret boss fight: that darn wall...).
1. I can see your point of view and I think you are entitled to your opinion regardless of whether I agree or not, let alone in this case when your opinion is completely understandable regardless of gender. I don’t know what you mean by backlash but if it is harassment or language abuse, I think sensible people can all agree it should be condemned or at least ignored, I sincerely hope you not to be bothered by it. 2. A major point to your pinned comment’s first section where you praised the authenticity of Benedikta’s feeling is the reason why I think in creative arts discussions and depictions on sensitive topics should be tolerated as much as possible but on a case by case basis. The reason here is twofold, first a macro problem associated to one of the fundamental human rights -- The Artistic Freedom. I don't want to get too involved in this topic as it is not what I want to focus on, but I think we can agree that if such depictions are restricted by law, it would be a disaster to both discussions like this and creative arts in general. Being a member in the film industry who also grew up in Hong Kong, I'm also aware the opposite side of this spectrum where film abuses such freedom in light of financial and popularity gain such as the Category III films in HK, that is why I think case by case is essential. I’m establishing the premise of my opinion because I personally think that the creative team behind FFXVI belongs to neither of the extremes, I genuinely believe that they are not actively abusing their creative freedom, their execution may leave much to be desired or comes off as out of touch depending on different standards, at least they are not inherently malicious. I hope we can agree on this. What I want to focus is, the necessity and causality between traumatic depiction and an impactful story, and the authentic emotions such depiction produces. In this case, fear, desperation, despair, and anger. My opinion aligns with your first point, it is exactly because it is a traumatic experience often exposed and discussed in real world that makes it easier for everybody to relate to, and thus easier for it to lasts an impression and creates genuine emotions. In my opinion, the more relatable, the deeper the impression, the more authentic the emotions feel, they are causally connected. Additionally, people have to be familiarized with the emotions first to be able to reciprocate them later, if they are not familiar with such emotions, it would be hard for them to reproduce such emotions and reciprocate. That’s why gender is such a big topic, I have come to the conclusion that men and women cannot fully understand each other simply because some of the emotions felt by one party cannot be felt by the other because they cannot familiarize themselves with such emotions. I as a male can never truly understand the fear of a female walking alone in the street at night. I understand what fear is, but the intensity and nuance are hard for me to reproduce. Therefore, in creative arts, to reach the goal where both (or multiple) parties can reproduce the same genuine emotions requires a scenario that is well understood and well discussed, such as SA. It is necessary for a triggering scenario to appear to reach a common level of sympathy and reciprocation. In short, it is meticulously designed to trigger you so that you can reciprocate the character, it’s emotional manipulation and it is very, very common in visual-oriented media such as film and video game. This is essentially my explanation to your confusion “why would they arrange such traumatic scenario if they knew it will trigger people”, it is because they want the traumatic experience to cause you to generate certain emotions, it is manipulation and it is very common, to the point I don’t think it is necessary to associate it with objectification. The absence of such scenario will result in the opposite direction, no intended emotions generated, and therefore, is hard to leave a lasting impression. To achieve both “trigger-free” and “impactful story” simultaneously in my opinion is most of the time wishful thinking, it’s not impossible but it requires significant effort. In fact, if we look back at FF history, FF6 dealt with suicide, FF7 dealt with massacre and FF12 touched upon ethnic cleansing. These are all major trigger warnings, I am curious as to why you felt particularly triggered by this scenario in FF16, perhaps I am wrong, you were also triggered by those, or perhaps you are more familiar with the emotions associated within this specific scenario that you are able to reproduce and reciprocate more successfully. Either way, this does not devalue your feelings and opinions, and I feel genuinely sorry for you. But letting a personal circumstance into the judgment of an industry common practice to me seems a bit pointless and unfair. You might ask why they have to chose SA specifically and associate that with sex symbol/femme fatale objectification, a simple analogy would answer your question: The common “flag” for a character (mostly male character) death is to make them purpose before crucial battle. “When I come back, I will marry you”, but most of the time they never do. Nowadays this is deemed as cliché but when this skit first came out it is a very effective manipulation. It is also objectifying the soldier as a death symbol, and the real life implication of them never coming back, I’d argue is more severe than that of SA. The manipulation tactics update with relevancy and reality, if it’s post-war, the death flag is the trigger, if it’s peaceful time, SA is the trigger. Do we complain about SA but not death flag in peaceful time? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical and double standard? But then if we complain every single manipulation tactic our hands will never leave the keyboard. My understanding is that communication is built upon the risk of offending others and being offended, or in other words, triggering others and being triggered. As long as we are communicating, we pose this threat and risk, however, it is also because we are constantly vulnerable that we are able to reach an agreement. The difference of a game trying to communicate with you is that instead of the usual bilateral gateway, it is now unilateral, game is the output, you are the input. Perhaps is this inability to communicate back, to further consult the intention behind this scene that is causing you to feel frustrated. I genuinely think FFXVI is a very good game so I sincerely hope the rest of the game does not disappoint you anymore, so that you can enjoy the same excitement I’ve enjoyed playing this game. (1/2)
3. Now I’d like to discuss point 2 and point 3 in your pinned comment from a scenario writer’s perspective. I’m genuinely grateful if you have reached this far. It feels like to me your complaints can be summarized in two points, 1. The SA scene being introduced as a “cheap” getaway for the audience to sympathize her thus in the process objectifying her as a sex symbol. And 2. The bent-over position comes out as blatant inappropriate objectification. I can understand both to the extend of my gender’s limitation. But to be completely honest, before encountering your video, I have never thought of both scenarios in the light of what you are criticizing them to be even once. I will proceed to explain point 2 first, because it is the more straightforward one. 3.1 I don’t think it is fair to attribute this pose by Garuda to be a blatant objectification when her movement is in sync and consistent to her character role and her character integrity. Because to me, instead of Gruda bending over on her knees and pointing her ass to the camera occasionally, it feels more like she’s playing with Clive in a cat and mouse game where Clive is the mouse and she’s just messing with him, not taking him seriously. Remember that when she first appears and confronts Clive, she literally is toying with him, not to mention immediately after this sequence where Clive droves his sword into her left eye thinking he killed her, she appears once again in a playful manner grabbing Clive and showcasing her potent regenerating ability. It is only when Clive becomes Ifrit, we see Gruda’s attitude shifts, from playful gradually to despair. In short, Garuda’s characterization is consistent from the moment she appears to the moment Clive embodies Ifrit, and after that, her characterization goes through a convincing change of attitude as the eikon battle progresses. So while I can understand the pose may come off for some people as a bit weird and sexualized, it is really hard for me to think that the developers did this sequence with the original intention to sexualize Garuda. If it is really a blatant unapologetic sexualization and objectification, I don’t think it would be necessary for them to take the extra mile and actually cover her character consistency. I also don’t agree with the idea that the characterization of Garuda is in itself sexualized already. We’ve known that Garuda is aggressive, cruel, and playful from previous titles, but ignoring that we can still understand why Garuda’s characterization is like this if we associate her with Benedikta’s psychological contexts, Benedikta was stripped of her power, the thing she deems as her “everything”, without consent, and is under the assumption that she’s never going to be able to summon it again. What will be the first thing that comes to mind when she suddenly regains this power, I’d argue it is similar to every individual out there that accidentally win the lottery for the first time - retaliatory behaviour (purchase) - if not more, since she was spoiled by the glory of her power already - retaliatory power abuse. That’s why Garuda’s characterization comes off as extremely aggressive, playful, indifferent, and narcissistic. Therefore, although on retrospection I can understand why that particular position is inappropriate to some, I disagree that the developers should be held responsible for it as they have created a coherent character that is not based on sexualization and objectification but only the supposed and intended characterization and integrity. So to say it is “inexcusable” in my opinion is a bit to the extreme. 3.2 I cannot see the SA scene as objectification, I can understand the correlation, I can understand the trigger warning, and it certainly could be interpreted that way. But for me, I cannot associate Benedikta as a simple sex symbol, at least not in this way. She is a sex symbol in correlation with the other supporting casts such as Kupka don’t get me wrong, but the sophistication and motivation her character has being depicting suggest that she is a much more capable individual albeit at the time powerless and broken, her character depiction thus far made me hard to believe that she’d actually succumb to such fate. My initial reaction (before the Cid juxtaposition) is that she’d either fight back or die trying. I’d even argue if she actually succumbs to such fate, it’d be a blatant femme fatale type objectification, and is nothing less than her character assassination. However, it is after reading your perspective that made me realize that the perception of a character and her at-the-moment vulnerability are treated as separate thing in the eyes of a female player. Again, I cannot possibly imagine and fully reciprocate the fear of a girl alone in the forest surrounded by men. The way I see it is that the sequence is a symbolism of her powerlessness, and a way for her to contemplate her previous choices to set up for a redemption arc. I never did associate this scene with a gender specific circumstance, which in retrospect I think I have unconsciously ignored the significance of exposed in such danger and its subsequent consequences on the basis that I am a male. In this light, I have truly become sexist for a moment. And I am grateful that you have made me realize such problem. I do not know how to fix it, but I am glad I at least realize that here locates a problem. 4. If you have reached here, I sincerely thank you for your patience. I studied film and gender back in university so your perspective intrigues me quite a lot. I know such long draft posted on UA-cam pretty much never gets reciprocated but nevertheless I decided to make the attempt to communicate. I’d love to hear what you think of my opinion but most importantly I sincerely hope the rest of the game will serve you well. This game is genuinely incredible in my opinion, I wish the better half of the game can wash away the unpleasantness you have experienced. (2/2)
@@DanielFanzwicky Thank you for sharing your opinion and taking the time to write such a well articulated response. I assure you that I have read it all and I hope you can forgive the fact that my response won't reference every point you've made. You have made some valid points and I've definitely learned from your comment. I'm also glad that it sounds like my perspective gave you something new to think about. Ultimately, we'll leave this discussion with a diffference of opinion and that's okay. The beautiful thing about a healthy conversation is that two people can disagree and still learn from one another. And I believe we have achieved that! And yes, we can definitely agree that Square Enix didn't objectify Benedikta/Garuda out of maliciousness or even intentiontally. I think the gaming industry is incredibly desensitized to hypersexualized characters and as a result things like this may happen due to a lack of awareness. Which is why, as a concept artist and as a woman, I make sure to be vocal about it when I see something that could be problematic. In your comment, you mentioned that you personally will never be able to know what it's like for a woman to walk alone at night and the fear associated with that. I commend you for admiting to that! But I'd like to clarify one thing for posterity: SA is not a gendered criminal offense. Unfortunately, there are many male victims and I think it's important to also note that, although not as common, there are also women perpetrators. This is especially true in CSA and I thought I should bring that to light. These statistics may, of course, differ from culture to culture... but from my experience having lived in both Europe and the US, this seems to be true. I have many, many people in my life who have unfortunately gone through some sort of sexual trauma. So, yes, I am very passionate about advocating for this subject matter. Another point I'd like to talk about is when you compared the use of SA in the media to the trope of the soldier leaving his loved one and him essentially become a death symbol. I understand your logic for bringing up that point and I can certainly understand how that trope could be triggering or disrespectful for a war veteran. That being said, I don't think we should compare traumas and their associated tropes. Two people can go through the exact same traumatic event, say a natural disaster or a robbery, and have completly two different outcomes. One may be emotionally distressed for a few months and then be able to return to their day-to-day life with no issue, while the the other may develop PTSD and have an impaired routine for the rest of their life. Trauma is such a complex beast and it's on an individual basis. That is why we should all remain compassionate and remember that just because something isn't hurtful to us, doesn't mean it isn't hurtful to someone else. That's a responsibility that us, as storytellers, should take seriously. I've mentioned this in another comment, but I don't think the attempted SA scene with Benedikta and the thieves was objectifying her. It was disturbing, yes, but I thought everything was well written up to that point. My only critique lays with the portrayl of Garuda during that battle sequence... having her in that position undermined the previous SA backstory. You also talked about Garuda's design and you said the following: "If it is really a blatant unapologetic sexualization and objectification, I don’t think it would be necessary for them to take the extra mile and actually cover her character consistency." I could be misinterpreting what you're trying to say, so forgive me if am! Again, as a concept artist, I think Garuda's design is super badass, they managed to design this cool beak mask thing on her forehead and they made it seem organic, it was so cool. It also gave her a spectacular profile! However, if you look at some of the battle shots where you can see her buttocks, you will notice that the hard-shelled armor she is wearing is essentially a thong. It's actually a little similar to Fran's armor design in FF XII. And for the record, I think Fran and Balthier are two of the most attractive characters in all of Final Fantasy. Yes, Fran's armor is totally ridiculous and hypersexualized but I always loved it and thought she looked so badass!! So, once again, had they not given Benedikta a SA narrative I'd have taken no issue with her design or that battle. I felt bad for all the players who were possibly triggered by that scene and then immediately had to fight her while Garuda is bent over, on her knees. I think that's disrespectful to the players who unfortunately were triggered by this. That is my critique and I stand by that. If you read all of this, I thank you greatly. I'm honestly ready to move on from the discussion in this video. Remember: embrace your dreams and, whatever happens, protect your honor!
@@DudettePlayz Thank you for responding! I completely agree with the sentiment that we can always agree to disagree but the importance of a respectful and productive conversation is to learn from each other. I’ll toast to that idea all day everyday, and I definitely learned a lot from this conversation. And yes I could’t agree more that the industry is insensitive to the point of indifference to this sort of problems, and I respect you for speaking out and stand by your belief. It seems like you are ready to move on from this discussion so I won’t take anymore of your time, enjoy the rest of the game!
Well, I certainly hope you don't get a lot of backlash! I've not seen any yet and I would like to think people will stay respectful! Given you want the perspective of other women, I'll just discuss the other topics in your video. The combat! I did not get to grips with the combat, I kept switching between using the rings, going back to no rings, going back to rings again. It just didn't gel with me, that said! I definitely want to give it another shot. I too though, was baffled when people were saying "oh, combat is too easy, easiest FF" .. like what? Maybe those are more action focused folk. But that said, we have both played Elden Ring, so we can't be that bad at action games .. right? :-D >.< Anyway, I do hope you do get to enjoy this game despite the sour taste it has left in this moment, as I personally really enjoyed the story overall. But if you don't, that's okay of course, you don't owe anybody anything!
Thank you, your comment was a breath of fresh air and I needed that! I am very happy too see everyone is keeping the comment section respectful, which I really appreciate. That being said I can confirm, that in the two years I've been doing UA-cam, this video has gotten me a record number of dislikes and unsubscribes... And the video has only been live for 12 hours lol. It's honestly okay, like I said: I expected it. It's a good thing too because not everyone is going to be my target audience and that's okay, I'd rather stay true to myself and build a community with like-minded people. That is not to say that I want people to always agree with me, but I do want a safe space that invites open dialogue and constructive criticism. And yes, what is up with the combat?! I was so confident after beating Elden Ring and FF XVI just came and shattered my ego 😂 Have you also not played Devil May Cry, is this why we suck? Apparently the secret to success is constant combos, which I found harder to do when Clive only had Phoenix because of the cool down times of abilities. I've also equipped the ring of timely focus and that has helped. Anyways, thanks again for such a considerate message!
this reminds me of the Joel situation with TLOU 2, and people getting angry over a character dying in an M rated game, or angry over having lesbians existing in the game, seeing those things as something triggering and that SHOULD NOT 😡 happen in a videogame, rape exists, tragic people exist, bad people with a terrible past exist, people that use their sexuality exist, they should not hide away from that. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I. The way you talk about the developers and writers, and about your audience not understanding though, implying they are dumb, and only your viewpoint is valid, doesn't sit right with me personally.
Seems like to me you are jumping into a lot of wild conclusions. How you are comparing my reaction and criticism to the portrayal of a SA character to the LGBTQ+ representation in a game is absolutely beyond me. Clearly my channel is not a good fit for you and that's completely okay.
@@DudettePlayz Your response is basically "you clearly don't understand, only I understand, GO AWAY then". Why even respond at that point. "Clearly the game is not a good fit for you and that's completely okay"
I've watched a lot of streamers play this section and half of them were female. Several of them visibly showed sympathy during the scene with the slavers. However, I only saw them show excitement during the fight. I don't say this to diminish how you felt. It made you feel how it made you feel and that's that. There is also a little more context to what was happening in that fight that hasn't been revealed yet. It may change your perspective a little or it may not. I can't speak for the battle designer but I can't imagine they meant for that fight to be sexual. Especially given additional context that is yet to come. If the developer was like me they would probably be pretty embarrassed to learn that someone took it that way. Who knows though. I hope this experience hasn't soured the game for you. Please continue your journey as this game is amazing. It's my second favorite FF story behind FF7.
I appreciate your comment, thanks for your perpective! I will remain hopeful for the remaining of FF XVI, but I wouldn't have been true to myself if I didn't air my concerns. I also must admit, as someone who worked for a variety of animation studios and has many friends working in the gaming industry, I think you are being naive. Every little detail in production is critiqued and scrutinized by artists, their leads and the director. That is not to say that the combat designer and everyone involved went out of their way to make Garuda's battle "sexual", but it is objectifying her in a way you wouldn't see it done to Ramuh or Titan. And, unfortunately, the social norm is to accept these hypersexualized characters in videogames - especially in jrpgs. We're desensitized to it, including the developers. Now I don't personally mind a sexy character like Scarlet from FF VII, for example. It's fine, it's eye candy and it fits her personality... I get it. I'd be fine if that was the case for Benedikta as well... but then you throw in a SA narrative into the mix and it becomes problematic. I apologize if I am up in arms about this, my rant is not directed at you. But I do think that as a female artist with a platform it is my responsibilty to shed some light about these issues. Especialy because it takes 0.5 sec to find comments on Reddit like these: "(...) 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘺 𝘧𝘢𝘷𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘎𝘢𝘳𝘶𝘥𝘢 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘴 (𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘸𝘢𝘴.. 𝘺𝘢 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸.. 𝘎𝘢𝘳𝘶𝘥𝘢 𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘢𝘪𝘳, 𝘭𝘮𝘢𝘰)" "𝘋𝘶𝘥𝘦 𝘴𝘩𝘦’𝘴 𝘧*𝘤𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘩𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘵, 𝘐 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘨𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘣𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘦" "𝘐 𝘩𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘣𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘣*𝘵𝘤𝘩, 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘦𝘥" "𝘚𝘵𝘰𝘮𝘱 𝘰𝘯 𝘮𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘪𝘧𝘶" You can maybe see why I am so fired up about this. I'd also reccomend checking some FF XVI threads on r/GirlGamers - you'll quickly learn that I am not the only one feeling this way. If you read all of this, thank you... I appreciate you and your support.
@@DudettePlayzI don't necessarily agree with 100% of what you're saying but I can empathize with your perspective. Continue the story for a bit more context! I do think the developer was aiming for some degree of pity and sympathy and yes, something that some people can unfortunately relate to. I think its actually good to see such a dark touchy subject being part of a game storyline but sure, they could've done a few things differently in any case. Those Reddit comments are super cringe, I'd be embarrassed if such words came from my mouth or fingertips.
My personal opinion is don't play it if your easily triggered or offended. At the end of the day its just a video game nothing going on in thr video is real so just enjoy it for the art it is and not for what happened to a character. Because regardless of gender these things happen to everyone at some point and yes alot of people wil have mental breaks
I'm sorry, but that's a terrible take. Final Fantasy doesn't have a history of dealing with triggering materials (I wouldn't know about XIV, I don't play MMO's), so even if I or any other player were easily triggered, how are we to know going into this game? Sure the game is rated M, but I assumed that meant cussing, violence and nudity. It's not like I'm playing Life is Strange or TLOU, where I'm going in prepared to be faced with heavy themes. Not to mention, none of my complaints have to do with the story or the characters themselves. Like you said, that's not real... They are not the ones to be held accountable. This is about me being disappointed at a studio I love who decided to use a triggering material alongside a heavily objectified character. If you want an eye candy Garuda... Fine! I want sexy characters too. Just scratch the SA story... They are good writers, surely they can come up with a different backstory that would justify her going on a rampage and get her some sympathy before her death. This is the last I'll speak on the matter, I think I've made my point across multiple times now.
That's disheartening to hear, I really wanted to see this game through to the end... Even if in my own private time. Are there more implications of SA in the game?
@@DudettePlayz I know you're asking the author of the comment, and I apologize if I come off as nosy. However, no, there are no more implications of SA in the game, or at least in the main story cutscenes. I Sped through most side quest scenes, but none seemed to imply any form of SA after Bebedikta's story. There are a few more scenes of characters fully naked later on, but nothing that implies SA. Hope this was helpful and you keep enjoying the story this game has to tell.
@@victormiguelnoriega5318 They are fully naked but nothing is shown. No worse than a PG-13 movie. The darkest parts are yet to come however with how the branded are treated. The game has dark undertones.
@@victormiguelnoriega5318 thank you, I really appreciate you letting me know! It's always helpful to know ahead of time of any potential triggers. Somebody else here in the comments spoiled by saying Jill is SA by multiple men? Is that true and if so is it something that maybe Jill tells Clive in confidence or is it something that we actually see in the game or is it heavily implied in a scene like Benedikta's? Thanks in advance!
@@DudettePlayz No, it's not true. Perhaps they misunderstood a piece of dialogue between Jill and Clive later on when they discuss her captivity under the Iron bloods. I understand how it could be misinterpreted that way, but it rather refers to using Jill as a weapon. The dialogue in English may confuse you, but I played it in Spanish and it's much clearer then, that it doesn't refer to SA but rather weaponizing her. I know it sounds vague, but I don't want to include spoilers of the dialogue for anyone.
That's great to hear, like I said I want to enjoy this game! Sadly given the reception of this video, I'm much more inclined to finish this game on my own.
To be honest, as male, while i was fighting Garuda for the first time, i didn’t notice « her position » during the fight, as i mainly fight her « in front of her ». I was more impressed by the scale of the fight, but as a spectator, and seeing your reaction, yeah it’s kind of weird decision. I think they could handle that better. I can fully understand why you were disturbed by this situation, and this is your right to express it. I have saw some players that were also disappointing about Benedikta treatment. I have enjoyed the game, and if they are going to make DLC, i would like to see more of her during her time with Cid before they part ways, just to have the chance to see more of her « happy » if i can say ?
Thank you for your honest and nuanced opinion, I really appreciate it! Garuda's problematic fight could have so easily been solved... Just replicate the Titan fight from FF XV. He was also an enormous boss fighting Noctis on the ground and his battle was epic!
@@DudettePlayz No problem ! We all have different opinions based on our experiences and sensibility, so if you were disturbed by one scene, combat or whatever, it’s completely normal to express it. Yeah, they could do this, you’re right. I’m gonna be honest, i prefered Garuda over Titan in XV because he was too big and i had some issues with camera, but yeah, it was a solution they could easily do. Another solution was to go directly with Ifrit against Garuda aswell
I also didn't consider that it was sexual. I saw it in the way that Geruda was toying with Clive and using him as a plaything(non-sexual), in the context of earlier before for the fight where she is toying with him. Kinda like the way cats play with their pray, if it makes sense. But now that it's mentioned I can see how it can be interpreted that way. So I understand Dudette's reaction to it.
@@Akiramaster Thank you, I appreciate you understanding! I've mentioned it in another comment, but a quick look through Benedikta threads on Reddit will show you that many people are objectifying her in general as well as in that battle. It's a shame... but I expect it.
@@DudettePlayz to be fair everyone objectifies everything now days and there are people who complain about it but, It's majority of the fans that actually objectifying any character for that matter. So yes you have your right to be upset alittle bit but it's just a make believe character at the end of the day and fan service is going to always be apart of gaming no matter what it is. So look at it this way if it's not real or you for that matter then why worry? It's all fantasy and not real people at the end of the day. People like what they enjoy can't really fault them for that me I enjoyed every moment of the fight and didn't pay no attention to how she was fighting because I was too focused on surviving lol. It is a M rated title after all so things like that should be expecting. At least it's not like the GOW 1-3 games with females with their bare chests being flashed. And to be honest Square handled the nudity really well in this game just be thankful Garuda wasn't nude during the fight then I can see the issue there. But wait till PC gets this game mods will probably change that as well. But her character was a bitch as in very mean and evil towards anyone and slept around with like 3 guys was it? Yeah so she is like your average game of thrones I'ma bounce around on different men type of gal and honestly that's just how it is in these themed type games or movies.
It not with-out consent tho Clive do not knows he slote her power Plus Benedikta was a mindcontrol and kill sooooo many people without a single tear , and kill for minor reason too She can be hurt but she can hurt Soooo many more! Bad guy and hero can get bad situation all the same , And that scene do not show anyone lay a finger on her Nor point to sexual situation That scene point to capture her and do not do anything to her Becuase she is important*with stats and power *even she has less power now but no one knows that at that point Not only that it make soooooo much more sense if they try to captuer her becuase she not normal girl in this stroy *and writer point to that way too But flashback memory scene make more dramatic in benedikta eye But fair point , you have right to feels
creativity need the freedom to explore all things even the unpleasant, if you feel something they did it right, i think you are reading into it way too much as a man i never sexualized her in that fight , i just did the fight . i think Benadicta was well done a bit of a bad ass honestly. i can see from some of the replies your written that you are set in your opinion. maybe this ones not for you.
I was disappointed because I don't feel like those kinds of issues belong in video games. I play games to get away from the harsh realities of life. But that's just me.......😔
Exactly, thank you... so much for Final "Fantasy" right? Again, I know this is rated M, so it's on me for assuming it would just involve cussing, violence and nudity... but I didn't antecipate triggering subjects. Whereas if I am playing games like Life is Strange or the TLOU, I pretty much go in prepared for a darker theme.
harsh realities ,video games are literally harsh realities pick a game any game without harsh reality or conflict games have no point. if anything there is less harsh realities in the real world which is good cause i dont have any 1-ups. the issues she is stating is in the eye of the beholder.
I haven't empathized with a female character this much in an ff title. I remember hoping she would switch sides and become friendly in my playthrough. She used her sexuality to gain favor. I'd say it's consistent with her characters story.
I know sexual assault sooo gross 🤢 , poor Benedikta 😢but she sooo angry and hate 🙀🙀🙀 Boss fight Ifrit vs Garuda sooo brutal 🙀💥 oh my god 🤯🤯 my mind it's crazy 😮😮🎉🎉
I think people use SA in their stories far too liberally. I think its a highly sensitive subject that shouldn't be used carelessly. I'm sorry this soured your experience in the game. its a shame they didn't treat the women in game a bit more respectfully
I'm expecting a lot of backlash for this video, but please keep the comment section respectful. I'd also love to hear the perspective of other women.
Here are some additional points I'd like to make:
. Clive taking Garuda's essence from Benedikta was clearly a triggering and traumatizing experience for her... Being stripped of your power, having your agency taken away and all without your consent... It all mirrors her past SA. So I think her despair and consequent rage feels realistic. It's raw and disturbing, yes, but well written on that regard.
. Which brings me to point 2, why write this in and potentially trigger some of your audience if you, as the developers, are going to continue to objectify the character? Garuda, the Eikon of Wind, being bent over, on her knees during an entire battle sequence after almost being assaulted by thieves... Is inexcusable.
. That tainted my perception and makes me think they just used the SA scene as a cheap shot to justify Benedikta going on a rampage and try to make you feel bad for her dying.
I cannot reiterate enough how much I love Final Fantasy, it holds such a special place in my heart... but this has truly disappointed me. And I think it's important to remain critical and respectfully bring some things to light.
Much love and stay safe.
I do empathize with your feelings as personal experiences shape how we respond to how traumatic events are depicted in media. As a military veteran I have completely lost interest in playing my once beloved war games as I am put off by the unneccesary violence.
However, I do believe that storytellers should have the freedom to explore various traumas and portray their characters in whichever way they deem is best for their story. FF16 is not a happy world, and it's not afraid to explore the many ways that people are exploited due to their backgrounds, social class, gender etc. I would have to disagree that using SA as a motivation for a character to lose control as cheap as that kind of trauma is rarely explored in RPG stories. Meanwhile, Clives motivation for losing control (losing a loved one) has been played to death. At the very least a trigger warning like the one you posted should be available to players so they understand what they will be confonted with if they choose to continue. Hope you dont quit as its a great story!
@@sirbear9396 First and foremost, thank you for your service. And thank you for such an eloquent and respectful point of view, I really appreciate it.
I agree that a that a trigger warning from the game would have been thoughtful. And I'm very sorry to hear that you can longer play certain games.
Maybe I haven't been able to express myself clearly, since English isn't my first language. I do think that trauma has a place in the media and can play a very important role in raising awareness. Moon Knight has done an excellent job at portraying trauma, for example. And like I mentioned in my previous comment, I commend the writers for for how well they wrote Benedikta's fallout after having her powers taken away. That followed up by an attempted SA by the thieves, while showcasing her past trauma and Cid helping her... That was raw, visceral, but well written in my opinion. I was disturbed, yes, but I didn't have any critiques up to that point.
My issue rose the moment we fought Garuda after she decided to go on a rampage given everything that had just happened to her. I felt bad for all the players who are possibly triggered by this scene and then immediately having to fight her while Garuda is bent over, on her knees. I think that's disrespectful to the players who unfortunately were triggered by this. That is my critique.
She is the Eikon of Wind, they could have played that battle many other ways. If they were insistent on having her fight Clive on the ground, they could have done it like XV Titan vs Noctis. If they wanted a badass, femme fatale, sexy battle then I stand by the fact that they should have scrapped her SA backstory out of respect for any victims who may be playing this game.
I've seen SA portrayed in a couple of games, but they were purposeful and didn't objectify the characters. It can be done successfully... I think that's why I was so disappointed that Final Fantasy, a franchise I hold so dear to my heart, couldn't do that.
@@DudettePlayz First of all, I'm sure you're quite busy so thank you for taking the time give such an articulate response. Hopefully people take a moment to read and digest it before jumping to any rash conclsuions.
After some reflection I can see how her pose during the Eikon fight seems a bit out of touch. It's interesting as its not something that stood out to me personally my first time around. I think this is a great example as to why its important to seek council from people with diverse experiences and backgrounds when developing a story that tackles so many raw issues.
Personally, I find it such a missed opportunity that we didn't have a kick ass fight that included us fighting Gardua via an airship or something similar. I know as FF fans we expect only the best from the stories told through the mainline series. It's certainly disheartening when you see something you really love miss the mark.
As a final note your English is increadible, I dont think anyone should have issues understanding you. Looking forward to your future content.
@@sirbear9396 Thank you, this means a lot! All I wanted from the beginning was to have a healthy and a constructive dialogue about this. You've set the bar high, so once again thank you.
what is the point of a story without conflict if nothing triggers or make you feel or learn anything what is the point? it would be a bland monotone piece of politically correct fluff . if you have ever watched game of thrones that is where i would set your expectations at that level.
Yoshi P and his team love symbolism. To those thar aren't used to FF14, they may have flew over a lot of FF fans out there with this game. The nudity is used to depict the fragility and feeling of exposed to the characters. This will be used frequently throughout the game. And the position of Garuda during fight was showing her being desperate. She's on her knees trying to get rid of all that is not fair to her. Sometimes flailing around. It was never meant to be sexual.
I completely agree. Since you mentioned XIV, I feel like her reaction to Garuda kind of reminds me of some of the XIV community's reaction to that one "swap" section in Garlemald. There were a surprising amount of people who failed to see what the purpose of that section was from a narrative standpoint.
I don't know. The team for XVI was very, VERY clear before release that this was going to be a mature game with mature themes, and I find it insulting to the creators to claim that they were in the moral wrong for making certain decisions. I'm glad to see that there are other men in the comments talking about how they didn't see the Garuda fight in a sexual way, cause I never saw it that way either. Sure, there are going to be Internet-addled idiots who will sexualize that portion of the game. But those people already do that, and for anything and everything (see: Twitch streamers who see anything remotely sexual and absolutely must make a joke about it). I wouldn't use that as evidence to say that this section of the game was done in poor taste.
Legitimately, nothing at all in the game felt "fanservice-y" to me. Everything, even the SA and the other things that you mentioned, felt like they had narrative or character-building purposes. I feel bad that she took this portion of the game negatively, and I respect her for being honest about her distaste for something. However, claiming that this or that was the *wrong* decision and scrutinizing the developers for it is very disingenuous and frankly rude.
I think you're just overthinking things regarding Garuda being bent over. If you were the developer, how will you have Clive and Garuda fight? Also, Garuda is currently playing with Clive at that stage, like a cat who plays with its food.
There are many tragic characters, especially among the ones that were good people all along. I will care about those first before I care about Benedikta. She was a villain and was shown doing cruel things without remorse. She had her choices, and she chose to follow the king rather than Cid.
Yeah you'll probably notice the thing with Eikons that hints whether or not their Dominants are in control: Their eye color. Blue implies they are can control their destructive power just fine. Yellow means they've gone bananas crazy with the reckless use of their strength and powers that are akins to nukes...such as Ifrit in crazy mode going 2 for 2 on bird type Eikons. It's not directly stated but it's those visuals throughout the game such as this whole section you played through.
Yeah the positioning of Garuda on her knees was awkward looking back on it and with how mobile she already it, the wild Eikon playing around with her prey like they before going in for the kill could've been handled different. Implications of SA...yeah I'm not sure if Square realized how their actions in those sensitive spots could've been determined and hopefully they learn their lesson in their next time (I mean I know this is rated M but still...). Benedikta herself was definitely a victim of how rough these nations wars get when she was serving Walooed: Leading a special unit, rejecting Cid's ideas of a better world and being devoted to Barnabas to avoid harsh living situations of Bearers, coming across Clive and his reliable Torgal, losing a portion of her powers that would've kept her from slavery status of sorts (you'll learn about how harsh that side is soon in the game), and being in her lowest point that ultimately doomed her (If it was full primed Ramuh vs Garuda, there's a chance he could've just knocked her out, and not overcook her like a wild Ifrit). I wouldn't call her a derogatory term (Clive's mom more than fits that bill) as she's in an interesting gray area of an unforgiving fantasy realm like Valisthea that's abundant of tragic characters....and this is still in the first act of the narrative with more story along the way.
As for why Clive was naked...well with him figuring it out (thank god they didn't drag out that plot point and revealed it to him a couple of hours in), Cid must've figured he was have suicidal tendencies and find a nearby sharp object...and Clive wouldn't be a first FF central character with those types of thoughts. There is also ATL (active time lore) to help keep track of who's who and learn about who Odin's Dominant is since you actually saw him with Benedikta in one of the very few nude scenes in this game (Tomes in the Hideaway has those type of lore details).
As far as accessibility options go, you have plenty of options to tweak around with and plus a virtual combat simulator in the Hideaway. I've seen people use the ring of timely dodging in their let's plays to make it more streamlined (practice makes perfect as Garuda, pre-Ifrit, was my first death of the game). This is one of my favorites FF's in the series but it takes practice with the combat to get the hang of it (though being backed against a wall just sucks with the camera, think of it like a secret boss fight: that darn wall...).
Hello, thanks for your video and thoughts about ff16.
1. I can see your point of view and I think you are entitled to your opinion regardless of whether I agree or not, let alone in this case when your opinion is completely understandable regardless of gender. I don’t know what you mean by backlash but if it is harassment or language abuse, I think sensible people can all agree it should be condemned or at least ignored, I sincerely hope you not to be bothered by it.
2. A major point to your pinned comment’s first section where you praised the authenticity of Benedikta’s feeling is the reason why I think in creative arts discussions and depictions on sensitive topics should be tolerated as much as possible but on a case by case basis.
The reason here is twofold, first a macro problem associated to one of the fundamental human rights -- The Artistic Freedom. I don't want to get too involved in this topic as it is not what I want to focus on, but I think we can agree that if such depictions are restricted by law, it would be a disaster to both discussions like this and creative arts in general. Being a member in the film industry who also grew up in Hong Kong, I'm also aware the opposite side of this spectrum where film abuses such freedom in light of financial and popularity gain such as the Category III films in HK, that is why I think case by case is essential.
I’m establishing the premise of my opinion because I personally think that the creative team behind FFXVI belongs to neither of the extremes, I genuinely believe that they are not actively abusing their creative freedom, their execution may leave much to be desired or comes off as out of touch depending on different standards, at least they are not inherently malicious. I hope we can agree on this.
What I want to focus is, the necessity and causality between traumatic depiction and an impactful story, and the authentic emotions such depiction produces. In this case, fear, desperation, despair, and anger. My opinion aligns with your first point, it is exactly because it is a traumatic experience often exposed and discussed in real world that makes it easier for everybody to relate to, and thus easier for it to lasts an impression and creates genuine emotions. In my opinion, the more relatable, the deeper the impression, the more authentic the emotions feel, they are causally connected. Additionally, people have to be familiarized with the emotions first to be able to reciprocate them later, if they are not familiar with such emotions, it would be hard for them to reproduce such emotions and reciprocate. That’s why gender is such a big topic, I have come to the conclusion that men and women cannot fully understand each other simply because some of the emotions felt by one party cannot be felt by the other because they cannot familiarize themselves with such emotions. I as a male can never truly understand the fear of a female walking alone in the street at night. I understand what fear is, but the intensity and nuance are hard for me to reproduce. Therefore, in creative arts, to reach the goal where both (or multiple) parties can reproduce the same genuine emotions requires a scenario that is well understood and well discussed, such as SA. It is necessary for a triggering scenario to appear to reach a common level of sympathy and reciprocation. In short, it is meticulously designed to trigger you so that you can reciprocate the character, it’s emotional manipulation and it is very, very common in visual-oriented media such as film and video game.
This is essentially my explanation to your confusion “why would they arrange such traumatic scenario if they knew it will trigger people”, it is because they want the traumatic experience to cause you to generate certain emotions, it is manipulation and it is very common, to the point I don’t think it is necessary to associate it with objectification. The absence of such scenario will result in the opposite direction, no intended emotions generated, and therefore, is hard to leave a lasting impression. To achieve both “trigger-free” and “impactful story” simultaneously in my opinion is most of the time wishful thinking, it’s not impossible but it requires significant effort. In fact, if we look back at FF history, FF6 dealt with suicide, FF7 dealt with massacre and FF12 touched upon ethnic cleansing. These are all major trigger warnings, I am curious as to why you felt particularly triggered by this scenario in FF16, perhaps I am wrong, you were also triggered by those, or perhaps you are more familiar with the emotions associated within this specific scenario that you are able to reproduce and reciprocate more successfully.
Either way, this does not devalue your feelings and opinions, and I feel genuinely sorry for you. But letting a personal circumstance into the judgment of an industry common practice to me seems a bit pointless and unfair. You might ask why they have to chose SA specifically and associate that with sex symbol/femme fatale objectification, a simple analogy would answer your question: The common “flag” for a character (mostly male character) death is to make them purpose before crucial battle. “When I come back, I will marry you”, but most of the time they never do. Nowadays this is deemed as cliché but when this skit first came out it is a very effective manipulation. It is also objectifying the soldier as a death symbol, and the real life implication of them never coming back, I’d argue is more severe than that of SA. The manipulation tactics update with relevancy and reality, if it’s post-war, the death flag is the trigger, if it’s peaceful time, SA is the trigger. Do we complain about SA but not death flag in peaceful time? Isn’t that a bit hypocritical and double standard? But then if we complain every single manipulation tactic our hands will never leave the keyboard.
My understanding is that communication is built upon the risk of offending others and being offended, or in other words, triggering others and being triggered. As long as we are communicating, we pose this threat and risk, however, it is also because we are constantly vulnerable that we are able to reach an agreement. The difference of a game trying to communicate with you is that instead of the usual bilateral gateway, it is now unilateral, game is the output, you are the input. Perhaps is this inability to communicate back, to further consult the intention behind this scene that is causing you to feel frustrated. I genuinely think FFXVI is a very good game so I sincerely hope the rest of the game does not disappoint you anymore, so that you can enjoy the same excitement I’ve enjoyed playing this game.
(1/2)
3. Now I’d like to discuss point 2 and point 3 in your pinned comment from a scenario writer’s perspective. I’m genuinely grateful if you have reached this far. It feels like to me your complaints can be summarized in two points, 1. The SA scene being introduced as a “cheap” getaway for the audience to sympathize her thus in the process objectifying her as a sex symbol. And 2. The bent-over position comes out as blatant inappropriate objectification. I can understand both to the extend of my gender’s limitation. But to be completely honest, before encountering your video, I have never thought of both scenarios in the light of what you are criticizing them to be even once. I will proceed to explain point 2 first, because it is the more straightforward one.
3.1 I don’t think it is fair to attribute this pose by Garuda to be a blatant objectification when her movement is in sync and consistent to her character role and her character integrity. Because to me, instead of Gruda bending over on her knees and pointing her ass to the camera occasionally, it feels more like she’s playing with Clive in a cat and mouse game where Clive is the mouse and she’s just messing with him, not taking him seriously. Remember that when she first appears and confronts Clive, she literally is toying with him, not to mention immediately after this sequence where Clive droves his sword into her left eye thinking he killed her, she appears once again in a playful manner grabbing Clive and showcasing her potent regenerating ability. It is only when Clive becomes Ifrit, we see Gruda’s attitude shifts, from playful gradually to despair. In short, Garuda’s characterization is consistent from the moment she appears to the moment Clive embodies Ifrit, and after that, her characterization goes through a convincing change of attitude as the eikon battle progresses. So while I can understand the pose may come off for some people as a bit weird and sexualized, it is really hard for me to think that the developers did this sequence with the original intention to sexualize Garuda. If it is really a blatant unapologetic sexualization and objectification, I don’t think it would be necessary for them to take the extra mile and actually cover her character consistency. I also don’t agree with the idea that the characterization of Garuda is in itself sexualized already. We’ve known that Garuda is aggressive, cruel, and playful from previous titles, but ignoring that we can still understand why Garuda’s characterization is like this if we associate her with Benedikta’s psychological contexts, Benedikta was stripped of her power, the thing she deems as her “everything”, without consent, and is under the assumption that she’s never going to be able to summon it again. What will be the first thing that comes to mind when she suddenly regains this power, I’d argue it is similar to every individual out there that accidentally win the lottery for the first time - retaliatory behaviour (purchase) - if not more, since she was spoiled by the glory of her power already - retaliatory power abuse. That’s why Garuda’s characterization comes off as extremely aggressive, playful, indifferent, and narcissistic.
Therefore, although on retrospection I can understand why that particular position is inappropriate to some, I disagree that the developers should be held responsible for it as they have created a coherent character that is not based on sexualization and objectification but only the supposed and intended characterization and integrity. So to say it is “inexcusable” in my opinion is a bit to the extreme.
3.2 I cannot see the SA scene as objectification, I can understand the correlation, I can understand the trigger warning, and it certainly could be interpreted that way. But for me, I cannot associate Benedikta as a simple sex symbol, at least not in this way. She is a sex symbol in correlation with the other supporting casts such as Kupka don’t get me wrong, but the sophistication and motivation her character has being depicting suggest that she is a much more capable individual albeit at the time powerless and broken, her character depiction thus far made me hard to believe that she’d actually succumb to such fate. My initial reaction (before the Cid juxtaposition) is that she’d either fight back or die trying. I’d even argue if she actually succumbs to such fate, it’d be a blatant femme fatale type objectification, and is nothing less than her character assassination.
However, it is after reading your perspective that made me realize that the perception of a character and her at-the-moment vulnerability are treated as separate thing in the eyes of a female player. Again, I cannot possibly imagine and fully reciprocate the fear of a girl alone in the forest surrounded by men. The way I see it is that the sequence is a symbolism of her powerlessness, and a way for her to contemplate her previous choices to set up for a redemption arc. I never did associate this scene with a gender specific circumstance, which in retrospect I think I have unconsciously ignored the significance of exposed in such danger and its subsequent consequences on the basis that I am a male. In this light, I have truly become sexist for a moment. And I am grateful that you have made me realize such problem. I do not know how to fix it, but I am glad I at least realize that here locates a problem.
4. If you have reached here, I sincerely thank you for your patience. I studied film and gender back in university so your perspective intrigues me quite a lot. I know such long draft posted on UA-cam pretty much never gets reciprocated but nevertheless I decided to make the attempt to communicate. I’d love to hear what you think of my opinion but most importantly I sincerely hope the rest of the game will serve you well. This game is genuinely incredible in my opinion, I wish the better half of the game can wash away the unpleasantness you have experienced.
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@@DanielFanzwicky Thank you for sharing your opinion and taking the time to write such a well articulated response. I assure you that I have read it all and I hope you can forgive the fact that my response won't reference every point you've made.
You have made some valid points and I've definitely learned from your comment. I'm also glad that it sounds like my perspective gave you something new to think about. Ultimately, we'll leave this discussion with a diffference of opinion and that's okay. The beautiful thing about a healthy conversation is that two people can disagree and still learn from one another. And I believe we have achieved that!
And yes, we can definitely agree that Square Enix didn't objectify Benedikta/Garuda out of maliciousness or even intentiontally. I think the gaming industry is incredibly desensitized to hypersexualized characters and as a result things like this may happen due to a lack of awareness. Which is why, as a concept artist and as a woman, I make sure to be vocal about it when I see something that could be problematic.
In your comment, you mentioned that you personally will never be able to know what it's like for a woman to walk alone at night and the fear associated with that. I commend you for admiting to that! But I'd like to clarify one thing for posterity:
SA is not a gendered criminal offense. Unfortunately, there are many male victims and I think it's important to also note that, although not as common, there are also women perpetrators. This is especially true in CSA and I thought I should bring that to light. These statistics may, of course, differ from culture to culture... but from my experience having lived in both Europe and the US, this seems to be true. I have many, many people in my life who have unfortunately gone through some sort of sexual trauma. So, yes, I am very passionate about advocating for this subject matter.
Another point I'd like to talk about is when you compared the use of SA in the media to the trope of the soldier leaving his loved one and him essentially become a death symbol. I understand your logic for bringing up that point and I can certainly understand how that trope could be triggering or disrespectful for a war veteran.
That being said, I don't think we should compare traumas and their associated tropes. Two people can go through the exact same traumatic event, say a natural disaster or a robbery, and have completly two different outcomes. One may be emotionally distressed for a few months and then be able to return to their day-to-day life with no issue, while the the other may develop PTSD and have an impaired routine for the rest of their life.
Trauma is such a complex beast and it's on an individual basis. That is why we should all remain compassionate and remember that just because something isn't hurtful to us, doesn't mean it isn't hurtful to someone else. That's a responsibility that us, as storytellers, should take seriously.
I've mentioned this in another comment, but I don't think the attempted SA scene with Benedikta and the thieves was objectifying her. It was disturbing, yes, but I thought everything was well written up to that point. My only critique lays with the portrayl of Garuda during that battle sequence... having her in that position undermined the previous SA backstory.
You also talked about Garuda's design and you said the following: "If it is really a blatant unapologetic sexualization and objectification, I don’t think it would be necessary for them to take the extra mile and actually cover her character consistency." I could be misinterpreting what you're trying to say, so forgive me if am! Again, as a concept artist, I think Garuda's design is super badass, they managed to design this cool beak mask thing on her forehead and they made it seem organic, it was so cool. It also gave her a spectacular profile! However, if you look at some of the battle shots where you can see her buttocks, you will notice that the hard-shelled armor she is wearing is essentially a thong.
It's actually a little similar to Fran's armor design in FF XII. And for the record, I think Fran and Balthier are two of the most attractive characters in all of Final Fantasy. Yes, Fran's armor is totally ridiculous and hypersexualized but I always loved it and thought she looked so badass!!
So, once again, had they not given Benedikta a SA narrative I'd have taken no issue with her design or that battle. I felt bad for all the players who were possibly triggered by that scene and then immediately had to fight her while Garuda is bent over, on her knees. I think that's disrespectful to the players who unfortunately were triggered by this. That is my critique and I stand by that.
If you read all of this, I thank you greatly. I'm honestly ready to move on from the discussion in this video.
Remember: embrace your dreams and, whatever happens, protect your honor!
@@DudettePlayz Thank you for responding!
I completely agree with the sentiment that we can always agree to disagree but the importance of a respectful and productive conversation is to learn from each other. I’ll toast to that idea all day everyday, and I definitely learned a lot from this conversation.
And yes I could’t agree more that the industry is insensitive to the point of indifference to this sort of problems, and I respect you for speaking out and stand by your belief.
It seems like you are ready to move on from this discussion so I won’t take anymore of your time, enjoy the rest of the game!
Well, I certainly hope you don't get a lot of backlash! I've not seen any yet and I would like to think people will stay respectful!
Given you want the perspective of other women, I'll just discuss the other topics in your video.
The combat! I did not get to grips with the combat, I kept switching between using the rings, going back to no rings, going back to rings again. It just didn't gel with me, that said! I definitely want to give it another shot.
I too though, was baffled when people were saying "oh, combat is too easy, easiest FF" .. like what?
Maybe those are more action focused folk. But that said, we have both played Elden Ring, so we can't be that bad at action games .. right? :-D >.<
Anyway, I do hope you do get to enjoy this game despite the sour taste it has left in this moment, as I personally really enjoyed the story overall. But if you don't, that's okay of course, you don't owe anybody anything!
Thank you, your comment was a breath of fresh air and I needed that!
I am very happy too see everyone is keeping the comment section respectful, which I really appreciate. That being said I can confirm, that in the two years I've been doing UA-cam, this video has gotten me a record number of dislikes and unsubscribes... And the video has only been live for 12 hours lol. It's honestly okay, like I said: I expected it. It's a good thing too because not everyone is going to be my target audience and that's okay, I'd rather stay true to myself and build a community with like-minded people. That is not to say that I want people to always agree with me, but I do want a safe space that invites open dialogue and constructive criticism.
And yes, what is up with the combat?! I was so confident after beating Elden Ring and FF XVI just came and shattered my ego 😂 Have you also not played Devil May Cry, is this why we suck? Apparently the secret to success is constant combos, which I found harder to do when Clive only had Phoenix because of the cool down times of abilities. I've also equipped the ring of timely focus and that has helped.
Anyways, thanks again for such a considerate message!
this reminds me of the Joel situation with TLOU 2, and people getting angry over a character dying in an M rated game, or angry over having lesbians existing in the game, seeing those things as something triggering and that SHOULD NOT 😡 happen in a videogame, rape exists, tragic people exist, bad people with a terrible past exist, people that use their sexuality exist, they should not hide away from that. Of course you are entitled to your own opinion, as am I. The way you talk about the developers and writers, and about your audience not understanding though, implying they are dumb, and only your viewpoint is valid, doesn't sit right with me personally.
Seems like to me you are jumping into a lot of wild conclusions. How you are comparing my reaction and criticism to the portrayal of a SA character to the LGBTQ+ representation in a game is absolutely beyond me.
Clearly my channel is not a good fit for you and that's completely okay.
@@DudettePlayz Your response is basically "you clearly don't understand, only I understand, GO AWAY then". Why even respond at that point.
"Clearly the game is not a good fit for you and that's completely okay"
I've watched a lot of streamers play this section and half of them were female. Several of them visibly showed sympathy during the scene with the slavers. However, I only saw them show excitement during the fight. I don't say this to diminish how you felt. It made you feel how it made you feel and that's that.
There is also a little more context to what was happening in that fight that hasn't been revealed yet. It may change your perspective a little or it may not.
I can't speak for the battle designer but I can't imagine they meant for that fight to be sexual. Especially given additional context that is yet to come. If the developer was like me they would probably be pretty embarrassed to learn that someone took it that way. Who knows though.
I hope this experience hasn't soured the game for you. Please continue your journey as this game is amazing. It's my second favorite FF story behind FF7.
I appreciate your comment, thanks for your perpective! I will remain hopeful for the remaining of FF XVI, but I wouldn't have been true to myself if I didn't air my concerns.
I also must admit, as someone who worked for a variety of animation studios and has many friends working in the gaming industry, I think you are being naive. Every little detail in production is critiqued and scrutinized by artists, their leads and the director. That is not to say that the combat designer and everyone involved went out of their way to make Garuda's battle "sexual", but it is objectifying her in a way you wouldn't see it done to Ramuh or Titan.
And, unfortunately, the social norm is to accept these hypersexualized characters in videogames - especially in jrpgs. We're desensitized to it, including the developers. Now I don't personally mind a sexy character like Scarlet from FF VII, for example. It's fine, it's eye candy and it fits her personality... I get it. I'd be fine if that was the case for Benedikta as well... but then you throw in a SA narrative into the mix and it becomes problematic.
I apologize if I am up in arms about this, my rant is not directed at you. But I do think that as a female artist with a platform it is my responsibilty to shed some light about these issues. Especialy because it takes 0.5 sec to find comments on Reddit like these:
"(...) 𝘰𝘯𝘦 𝘰𝘧 𝘮𝘺 𝘧𝘢𝘷𝘰𝘳𝘪𝘵𝘦 𝘎𝘢𝘳𝘶𝘥𝘢 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘪𝘨𝘯𝘴 (𝘦𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘨𝘩 𝘱𝘢𝘳𝘵 𝘰𝘧 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘧𝘪𝘨𝘩𝘵 𝘸𝘢𝘴.. 𝘺𝘢 𝘬𝘯𝘰𝘸.. 𝘎𝘢𝘳𝘶𝘥𝘢 𝘰𝘯 𝘢𝘭𝘭 𝘧𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴 𝘸𝘪𝘵𝘩 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘴𝘴 𝘪𝘯 𝘵𝘩𝘦 𝘢𝘪𝘳, 𝘭𝘮𝘢𝘰)"
"𝘋𝘶𝘥𝘦 𝘴𝘩𝘦’𝘴 𝘧*𝘤𝘬𝘪𝘯𝘨 𝘩𝘰𝘵 𝘢𝘯𝘥 𝘐 𝘤𝘢𝘯’𝘵 𝘨𝘦𝘵 𝘰𝘷𝘦𝘳 𝘪𝘵, 𝘐 𝘸𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘨𝘪𝘢𝘯𝘵 𝘣𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘵𝘪𝘵𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘦 𝘮𝘦 𝘭𝘪𝘧𝘦"
"𝘐 𝘩𝘢𝘵𝘦𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘣𝘪𝘳𝘥 𝘣*𝘵𝘤𝘩, 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘨𝘰𝘵 𝘸𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘴𝘩𝘦 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘦𝘳𝘷𝘦𝘥"
"𝘚𝘵𝘰𝘮𝘱 𝘰𝘯 𝘮𝘦 𝘸𝘢𝘪𝘧𝘶"
You can maybe see why I am so fired up about this. I'd also reccomend checking some FF XVI threads on r/GirlGamers - you'll quickly learn that I am not the only one feeling this way.
If you read all of this, thank you... I appreciate you and your support.
@@DudettePlayzI don't necessarily agree with 100% of what you're saying but I can empathize with your perspective. Continue the story for a bit more context! I do think the developer was aiming for some degree of pity and sympathy and yes, something that some people can unfortunately relate to. I think its actually good to see such a dark touchy subject being part of a game storyline but sure, they could've done a few things differently in any case. Those Reddit comments are super cringe, I'd be embarrassed if such words came from my mouth or fingertips.
My personal opinion is don't play it if your easily triggered or offended. At the end of the day its just a video game nothing going on in thr video is real so just enjoy it for the art it is and not for what happened to a character. Because regardless of gender these things happen to everyone at some point and yes alot of people wil have mental breaks
I'm sorry, but that's a terrible take. Final Fantasy doesn't have a history of dealing with triggering materials (I wouldn't know about XIV, I don't play MMO's), so even if I or any other player were easily triggered, how are we to know going into this game?
Sure the game is rated M, but I assumed that meant cussing, violence and nudity. It's not like I'm playing Life is Strange or TLOU, where I'm going in prepared to be faced with heavy themes.
Not to mention, none of my complaints have to do with the story or the characters themselves. Like you said, that's not real... They are not the ones to be held accountable. This is about me being disappointed at a studio I love who decided to use a triggering material alongside a heavily objectified character.
If you want an eye candy Garuda... Fine! I want sexy characters too. Just scratch the SA story... They are good writers, surely they can come up with a different backstory that would justify her going on a rampage and get her some sympathy before her death.
This is the last I'll speak on the matter, I think I've made my point across multiple times now.
I think you should stop playing if you feel disappointed with this battle because it's gonna get worse for you!
That's disheartening to hear, I really wanted to see this game through to the end... Even if in my own private time. Are there more implications of SA in the game?
@@DudettePlayz I know you're asking the author of the comment, and I apologize if I come off as nosy. However, no, there are no more implications of SA in the game, or at least in the main story cutscenes. I Sped through most side quest scenes, but none seemed to imply any form of SA after Bebedikta's story. There are a few more scenes of characters fully naked later on, but nothing that implies SA. Hope this was helpful and you keep enjoying the story this game has to tell.
@@victormiguelnoriega5318 They are fully naked but nothing is shown. No worse than a PG-13 movie. The darkest parts are yet to come however with how the branded are treated. The game has dark undertones.
@@victormiguelnoriega5318 thank you, I really appreciate you letting me know! It's always helpful to know ahead of time of any potential triggers.
Somebody else here in the comments spoiled by saying Jill is SA by multiple men? Is that true and if so is it something that maybe Jill tells Clive in confidence or is it something that we actually see in the game or is it heavily implied in a scene like Benedikta's?
Thanks in advance!
@@DudettePlayz No, it's not true. Perhaps they misunderstood a piece of dialogue between Jill and Clive later on when they discuss her captivity under the Iron bloods. I understand how it could be misinterpreted that way, but it rather refers to using Jill as a weapon. The dialogue in English may confuse you, but I played it in Spanish and it's much clearer then, that it doesn't refer to SA but rather weaponizing her. I know it sounds vague, but I don't want to include spoilers of the dialogue for anyone.
It wouldn't be a good game if it didn't have low points along with the high ones
i think garuda's story was the most badly written part of the game, but after this part, i think its superb overall
That's great to hear, like I said I want to enjoy this game!
Sadly given the reception of this video, I'm much more inclined to finish this game on my own.
To be honest, as male, while i was fighting Garuda for the first time, i didn’t notice « her position » during the fight, as i mainly fight her « in front of her ». I was more impressed by the scale of the fight, but as a spectator, and seeing your reaction, yeah it’s kind of weird decision. I think they could handle that better.
I can fully understand why you were disturbed by this situation, and this is your right to express it. I have saw some players that were also disappointing about Benedikta treatment. I have enjoyed the game, and if they are going to make DLC, i would like to see more of her during her time with Cid before they part ways, just to have the chance to see more of her « happy » if i can say ?
Thank you for your honest and nuanced opinion, I really appreciate it!
Garuda's problematic fight could have so easily been solved... Just replicate the Titan fight from FF XV. He was also an enormous boss fighting Noctis on the ground and his battle was epic!
@@DudettePlayz No problem ! We all have different opinions based on our experiences and sensibility, so if you were disturbed by one scene, combat or whatever, it’s completely normal to express it.
Yeah, they could do this, you’re right. I’m gonna be honest, i prefered Garuda over Titan in XV because he was too big and i had some issues with camera, but yeah, it was a solution they could easily do. Another solution was to go directly with Ifrit against Garuda aswell
I also didn't consider that it was sexual. I saw it in the way that Geruda was toying with Clive and using him as a plaything(non-sexual), in the context of earlier before for the fight where she is toying with him. Kinda like the way cats play with their pray, if it makes sense.
But now that it's mentioned I can see how it can be interpreted that way. So I understand Dudette's reaction to it.
@@Akiramaster Thank you, I appreciate you understanding! I've mentioned it in another comment, but a quick look through Benedikta threads on Reddit will show you that many people are objectifying her in general as well as in that battle. It's a shame... but I expect it.
@@DudettePlayz to be fair everyone objectifies everything now days and there are people who complain about it but, It's majority of the fans that actually objectifying any character for that matter. So yes you have your right to be upset alittle bit but it's just a make believe character at the end of the day and fan service is going to always be apart of gaming no matter what it is. So look at it this way if it's not real or you for that matter then why worry? It's all fantasy and not real people at the end of the day. People like what they enjoy can't really fault them for that me I enjoyed every moment of the fight and didn't pay no attention to how she was fighting because I was too focused on surviving lol. It is a M rated title after all so things like that should be expecting. At least it's not like the GOW 1-3 games with females with their bare chests being flashed. And to be honest Square handled the nudity really well in this game just be thankful Garuda wasn't nude during the fight then I can see the issue there. But wait till PC gets this game mods will probably change that as well. But her character was a bitch as in very mean and evil towards anyone and slept around with like 3 guys was it? Yeah so she is like your average game of thrones I'ma bounce around on different men type of gal and honestly that's just how it is in these themed type games or movies.
It not with-out consent tho
Clive do not knows he slote her power
Plus Benedikta was a mindcontrol and kill sooooo many people without a single tear , and kill for minor reason too
She can be hurt but she can hurt Soooo many more!
Bad guy and hero can get bad situation all the same ,
And that scene do not show anyone lay a finger on her
Nor point to sexual situation
That scene point to capture her and do not do anything to her
Becuase she is important*with stats and power *even she has less power now but no one knows that at that point
Not only that it make soooooo much more sense if they try to captuer her becuase she not normal girl in this stroy *and writer point to that way too But flashback memory scene make more dramatic in benedikta eye
But fair point , you have right to feels
creativity need the freedom to explore all things even the unpleasant, if you feel something they did it right, i think you are reading into it way too much as a man i never sexualized her in that fight , i just did the fight . i think Benadicta was well done a bit of a bad ass honestly. i can see from some of the replies your written that you are set in your opinion. maybe this ones not for you.
I was disappointed because I don't feel like those kinds of issues belong in video games. I play games to get away from the harsh realities of life. But that's just me.......😔
Exactly, thank you... so much for Final "Fantasy" right?
Again, I know this is rated M, so it's on me for assuming it would just involve cussing, violence and nudity... but I didn't antecipate triggering subjects. Whereas if I am playing games like Life is Strange or the TLOU, I pretty much go in prepared for a darker theme.
harsh realities ,video games are literally harsh realities pick a game any game without harsh reality or conflict games have no point. if anything there is less harsh realities in the real world which is good cause i dont have any 1-ups. the issues she is stating is in the eye of the beholder.
bruh she hurt torgal, screw benedikta
Sure, but screw her with consent 🤷♀️
To be fair the Garuda "poses" were in very poor taste and plainly ridiculous. It wasn't the epic battle I expected
I haven't empathized with a female character this much in an ff title. I remember hoping she would switch sides and become friendly in my playthrough.
She used her sexuality to gain favor. I'd say it's consistent with her characters story.
I know sexual assault sooo gross 🤢 , poor Benedikta 😢but she sooo angry and hate 🙀🙀🙀
Boss fight Ifrit vs Garuda sooo brutal 🙀💥 oh my god 🤯🤯 my mind it's crazy 😮😮🎉🎉
I think people use SA in their stories far too liberally. I think its a highly sensitive subject that shouldn't be used carelessly. I'm sorry this soured your experience in the game. its a shame they didn't treat the women in game a bit more respectfully