0:25 paint scheme wouldn't be legal if it was a normal airliner because: 19:30 airliners need to have a thick line around the doors due to safety. STOP WITH THE SHITTY CLICKBAITS
Boeing employee here. I had the opportunity to work on the four C-32 (757) aircraft after they rolled out of the factory. It was exciting to see them up close and while I can't speak about many details, I can say that they're very impressive inside. They have a dedicated stateroom for the primary passenger, a conference room, an area of first class seating, and much more well appointed galleys than you ever see in conventional airliners. I also had the opportunity to work with one of the 747s now being converted as a new Air Force One. Painted in all white it was used as a giant outdoor projection screen for a series of high tech videos celebrating the Boeing Company's 100th Anniversary celebration back in 2016. That experience was great fun and a highlight of my career.
As an engineer, it's really hard to convince non-engineers to look past the sunk cost fallacy and accept it'll actually be more expensive to retrofit an existing unit than it would be to just start from scratch.
I learned that from This Old House, Its great people preserve these homes but if you are going to buy a house from 1895 in New England one better be aware that when you open those walls there will be surprises from 100+ years of retrofits, often not by people really trained to do them. And watching that show as a kid with my dad, those surprises were always expensive surprises.
As a software developer, I agree with you. When management says: Can you do those changes (to the existing software), one thinks: Scrap the old software and re-write a clean-sheat design from scratch, as this will be easier.
The biggest problem is that it is soo difficult to calculate. Yes, it is possible that scrapping something and starting over will eventually be cheaper, but there's no guarantee. As with any big and unique project, getting a good prediction on the actual cost is near impossible.
My brother has worked at Boeing for almost 40 years and the very first plane he worked on was the 1990 Air Force One. If you go to the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle they have the 707 version on display and you can walk through it. It's astonishingly tiny compared to the 747 version.
I will allow it, but just barely. The Concorde did have an ugly wannabe look-a-like, the Tu-44, which of course was very seldom seen and rare. There aren't many jetliners that look like a 747 though.
The AN225 was more distinctive, but wasn't an airliner. The SR71 is more distinctive, but it's not an airliner. The Electric Lightning is more distinctive, but it's not an airliner. When it comes to airliners, the two that most people can recognize easily are the Concorde and the 747, but there are non-airliners that are even more iconic.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 one is pointy and the other has a hump. The fact that it they can be described so shortly and most people know which planes are meant says a lot
Considering how much engineering, wiring, computers, math, and the total number of different people working on these aircraft, it's simply mind blowing that thousands of these flights take off every day without incident.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24not even close lol. But I will say it's surprising considering the average intelligence of ppl working to build these planes. I work with quite a few idiots
@@bodybong I was in aerospace industry in design office. Pay is terrible across the industry for pretty much all roles and companies. Can earn more delivering pizza and it's easier and no responsibility for screw ups LOLZ 🤣🤣🤣
@@bodybong Perhaps I move to America and come work for Gulfstream. In my country most engineers/designers earn less than non skilled labourers for some reason.
So, in the opening of the video where you see three men next to the plane, the guy taking the wheel chocks to Air Force One, is me. Naval Air Station North Island in Coronado CA. A day I will never forget. It was an honor to do this.
@andidevlin3361 I was? I had no idea. I think it was because I was nervous. It is Air Force One after all. Who wouldn't be? All of America is watching you.
I participated in the flight test program for the VC25A. Most of the problems mentioned on this video mirror what happened back then. It doesn’t make any sense for Boeing to build specific airplanes for this. Both VC25As were pulled from the production line and flown “green” to Wichita for rework. Wiring was the major show-stopper for the program back then, causing long delays and cost overruns. We also had to involve the FAA as we had to obtain a supplementary type certificate for the CF6-80 engines. The requirement for FAA certification for this airplane is a monumental mistake on the part of the Air Force. What were they thinking? Involving the FAA is a big PITA and completely unnecessary. Seems like history repeats itself. Both times Boeing signed a contract that they knew they were not able to honor. In the end the VC25A was a big loss for for Boeing, as the -B will be. I now fly 787s for a living. It is a truly fantastic airplane, so I’m not a Boeing hater. Makes me sad but, not surprised, to see how bad things continue to be at Boeing. They need a complete overhaul of their upper management beginning with the board of directors.
I agree. Boeing made a huge mistake in signing a fixed contract not knowing the certifications and ultimate rework on the green -8 aircraft. So much equipment to add to make it serviceable and something as simple as the paint work. It all adds up to huge costs that Boeing management failed to see. Worked at Andrews, so understand the processes for these very modified aircraft.
The US Air Force certification process is so onerous that no one wants to go that route, and it would not be a safer airplane either. Wright Patterson doesn't have the knowledge to define certification requirements for passenger aircraft and it doesn't have the expertise to provide regulatory oversight of certification documents. The US Air Force would simply defer to FAA certification requirements anyway because that is the minimum acceptable standard for safety.
@@jeffberner8206 The 747-8 is already certified by the FAA and all that work gets credit for Air Force “certification” purposes. That is wat we did on the A model except for the STC of the engines. Having to re-certify it by the FAA as a new type, as was implied on the video, would be very problematic and time consuming.
@@peteorengo5888 Wait a moment. It does not have a certificate at the moment, will it need an EICAS type system under the new FAA rules? Or did they get a waiver with the 737s?
Thank you, Petter! I was really surprised and delighted when I heard your voice greet us on our flight back home yesterday evening! Fantastic flight and smooth landing (whether by you or your F.O.). It was an honor to be your passenger! Enjoy your content immensely! Keep up the good work!
Love that you snuck in a shot of the E4B. Those aircraft were the bane of my existence when I was in the military. They would show up unannounced and required the support of the entire base.
@@Jehty_ Probably just because they got insane levels of requirements and features heaved upon them. Also quite old, that makes maintenance worse. Lots of old parts, and especially for the EMP-safety they might have more analogue parts.
The bane of our existence is true. I hated when the E4B would show up at Pease AFB when I was stationed there. Air Force One was a close second. And it happened a lot. The 88 election just finished, and it didn't matter who had won. Dukakis or Bush. Boston was just to the south of us. Kennebunkport was just to the north. It seemed like every other week, one was there. Pease was an SAC base. It was much easier to make secure. And yes, the entire base was utilized to support them.
Two other major considerations with wiring spacing. thermal loading and cross talk. if you make a wire bundle too thick, you can overheat the center of the bundle and cause premature failure. Tightly bundled wires can also cause errant voltages and noise on adjoining wires. This makes diagnostics and repair an absolute nightmare as imagine having a problem where the engine three RPM would climb uncommanded during flight, but only if the stabalizer, flaps, and secondary radio antenna are all in operation at the same time. that's the kind of crazy wiring gremlin that can occur if you just slap your bundles together however it's convenient. Also, I think one of the reasons that particular platform was selected was because it can takeoff and land at shorter than normal runways for aircraft in that class, allowing the President to visit more rural airports than he could in something like a 777
Switching to fiber optic instead of wire would solve heat and crosstalk, but considering how conservative aviation and AF1 are with new tech I doubt they would pick it up
Tis is an outstanding episode. As a civilian, you really did your homework and presented all of the details about this highly specialized military airframe, especially concerning the lineage of the fleet with proper nomenclature!
@@deathwishdrang1780 S'not like a European pilot can go up to USAF and request fresh footage of the VC-25, though. Stock footage is basically all anybody can get unless they clear LOTS of paperwork hurdles.
Fun fact, anyone who has assisted AF-1 on its travels can request a commemorative coin from the crew. Its not expensive and none too fancy a coin, but a friend of mine now has three of them from each time it has visited the airport that he works at.
@@gursisingh1940 It could mean anything, such as being the aircrafts ground handler, someone who helped with the baggage or the fuel or even someone who emptied the toilets on AF1 on a long multi-day tour by the President. Not just anyone can support AF-1 when its on the ground. Those that do have to be security vetted to a higher standard than for normal airport work, so the coin is just available as a 'thank-you'.
I've been an aircraft mechanic and pilot for 40 years and truthfully it's frightening some of the things I've seen! Then you complicate it like this project and your doomed to fail from the bottom up!
Your videos are the absolute BEST aviation-related content on UA-cam Petter....you are brilliant! and I'm sure make a huge positive impact...Thank you!
When Offutt Air base experience extensive flood damage a few years back, the doomsday 747's were moved to Lincoln, NE airport and stored there until Offutt was repaired and upgraded. During that time, I drove a delivery route each week in Lincoln and had stops both at the airport and adjacent to the airport. Each week I enjoyed looking at these amazing and strange aircraft along with other smaller support craft. Sometimes, I got to see them in flight or doing practice take offs and landings. I would enjoy a dedicated video on these aircraft, even with limited information available. Love your videos.
I went to offutt in the 70s with a group of helicopters when the runway was under repair. While in left seat as a crew chief ,I was almost killed by a pilot who was having a very bad day.while taking off in an extreme nose down ,the aircraft “slipped “.that’s when I screamed like a little girl.luckily nobody else heard me. I guess now days in the military screening like a little girl would be quite normal.
This is a great series! I liked it so much that I bought a Mentour Pilot coffee mug. However, the mug had a misprint. (They printed both graphics on top of each other and it looks terrible...) I've been going back and forth with Spring via email trying to get a replacement, and they're extremely difficult considering we're talking about a mug that costs less than $20. So, please keep up the great work on the series - but maybe seek out a new company to make the merchandise...
Good for you to leave a comment about it. Especially when he advertises his merch. under the video. It's inconsiderate to have to jump through hoops over it. Good luck.🍀✈
This was really interesting! I never thought of the wiring separation being a factor in the cost but I have learned something new. Thanks for sharing this.
Excellent video. I have watched most of your videos. I loved this one because of the brief history you added. Being a Railway Professional, I know very little of how the Air Transportation industry works. However, thanks to your very informative videos, the detail in which has expanded my knowledge. Are you a trainer in the Airline industry? If not you should be as you have a very natural instinct in how to make a subject matter very interesting and captivating. Keep up the excellent videos, many thanks. Ray.
Enjoyed the video! Thank you. Comment: @ 15:57, the section highlighted is about bend radius, not separation although it's likely that the bend radius requirement would affect routing.
As always, a well thought out, detailed and narrated story. And very interesting as well! I always learn something new watching your videos. Thanks again!
We have a retired Air Force One here at our local base (not used as a base anymore except for the runway/tower)along with many other retired military planes. Very cool to be able to see all of these amazing planes up close.
@@alanm2842 There is a Jetstar (the first business jet) in presidential colors at the LBJ ranch, however Johnson only used that particular one while he was vice-president. He used several other Jetstars while he was president, but those are at other museums including one at the USAF museum in Dayton. Also at Dayton are the Roosevelt, Truman and Eisenhower prop planes, along with the 707 that President Kennedy used on his fateful trip to Dallas. An earlier 707 that was used as Air Force One by Eisenhower and Kennedy is at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. Another early presidential 707 is at the Pima Air Museum in Tucson. A later 707 used by Nixon, Ford and Reagan is at the Reagan Library in California.
They have several of the old ones at the US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. I *really* hope one of the VC-25As makes it there after the VC-25Bs enter service, though I'm not sure where they'll have space to put it. It's pretty cool to walk through the old Air Force One aircraft, though, obviously, none of the retired ones are anywhere near the scale of the VC-25s. Being able to walk through those would be awesome. Needless to say, I'll be planning another trip to Dayton if/when they get one of those open to the public. - haha
@@E_Legal_Alien That could be it, although it would be at the Pima Air Museum which is located adjacent to the base. They actually have a couple of planes there that were used as Air Force One, although neither was ever the primary Air Force One. There is one of the three early 707's that was purchased in 1959 for VIP use. SAM 970 was the primary 707 used by Eisenhower and Kennedy until the newer intercontinental 707 arrived in 1962. SAM 970 is now at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. The one at Pima is SAM 971 which mostly carried other VIP's, but it was also sometimes used as a backup Air Force One when SAM 970 was not available. There is also a VC-118 at Pima which is a military version of the DC-6. It's not the one that was used by Truman as his primary Air Force One, that one is at the USAF museum in Dayton. However the VC-118A at Pima was set aside for presidential use by both Kennedy and Johnson and was used when they flew into smaller airports that wouldn't accommodate the 707, like when Kennedy flew to Hyannis Port. It's historic also because it was the last propeller driven airplane used as Air Force One.
Folks, this incredible best in class channel has about 220k subscribers…it should be double that in my opinion. This host and his research/delivery is best in class.,.and appeals to both the enthusiast as well the lay person…as well as kids who are interested in the aviation subject…it is educational and inspirational
I was flying out of Andrews AFB in Maryland in T-39s (Sabreliners) in the mid-seventies when the first VC-25A appeared on base. It looked absolutely HUGE, especially when compared to the little 12,500-pound jet I was flying. We were all quite impressed, then, and frankly I think the 74 and its cousin the VC-25A are still the most impressive aircraft around. The 73 is impressive, too, as it takes up where the DC-3 left off (or actually is still leaving off) in longevity and utility.
I have never laughed during one of your very informative videos. Your dry and ironic approach to explaining Boeing’s dilemma for this Air Force 747s was just very funny. Well done!
I did a review of the previous program when it was behind schedule. One of the contributors was the air stairs and doors being required to be on the port side of the aircraft. Boeing wanted to put them on the opposite side as there would be much less disruption of lines and wiring but it was insisted that they had to be on the port side so that the "United States of America" would read from nose to tail and not the other way around for that iconic image.
A well-researched and well-produced video! There are a few additional items that need to be considered. These aircraft will also need to conform to Military certification standards which includes Mil-Spec wiring. Commercial-certificated wiring will not suffice. The VC-25B's will also feature updated military systems which requires additional wiring and environmental cooling. Consider this: ECS ducting is much less flexible than wire bundles and needs to be fitted in places with little space and no prior mounting provisions.
I am a retired reliability engineer out of the oil industry. So many of the major projects that I reviewed, seemed to have been dreamed up, agreed to and signed on the golf course. All of the projects had major flaws that were very easy to spot once reviewed. One plant would have blown up and destroyed everything that would have been surrounding. A rail project (I know not oil, but I was assigned to it) I calculated would cost $11 bn instead of the budgeted $3 bn, and it did. From my perspective none of the issues in this vlog over the plane here are a surprise, more likely totally to be expected. Doing the reviews is really easy, but almost no board want them done before the contract, they think they can get around any challenges - back on the golf course.
Rail project that costs billions more than initially "figured?" Sounds like California's "Train To Nowhere." Voters passed a measure which would fund half the then-projected cost. So it was half-baked from the very start.
I was fortunate to become friends with a WWII pilot named Joe Varisco through a good friend and corporate pilot around 1990. Joe flew his little AA-1 Grumman American plane out of KDXR the same time I was working on my Private pilot flight training. He had retired years earlier from an airline career flying the Lockheed Constellation. I think he might have flow the Grumman F6F Hellcat during the war. He was such a nice man with a great sense of humor that unfortunately passed not too many years after I left the New York area. He spoke about the lovely sound the engines made, and how amazingly responsive and fun to fly the aircraft was.
Have you thought of a series where sports teams have flown, close shaves or disasters? The thing is that an aircraft has a random collection of passengers while a team flight has a closely knit group of passengers. Love the channel!
I think since one accident where a whole team flew together, most major sports teams elect to fly on separate planes to ensure that one accident won’t take all of them out.
The door should be a contrasting colour or outlined to be identifiable easily, I'm thinking is what is 'wrong' for that colour scheme to be used commercially.
@@MentourNow Stood out like dog's b**ls - and good point you made at the end - if the cert process is so strict about wiring etc, how about getting the doors up to FAA cert standard?
Funny. I stopped the video and had a chat with my hubby about the question. (he's an airplane nut & retired AF) I guessed that it was the doors and said "For a commercial airliner the doors need to be obvious for safety reasons. However, for Air Force One the doors need to be concealed also for safety reasons." I was right! lol 😁
Your videos are highly informative and well produced. Information by the bucket load. Great work. I have been lucky enough to see the E4B in person once. Scary because of what it is used for should it be needed, but awesome to see fly at our local airport.
@@MentourNow Spealkimg of the us airforce i tracked 1 of their C-17 Globemasters at Dublin Airport and as it was taking off i went outside into the back garden and sure enough i saw it...i live VERY close to Dublin Airport
Great review. I spent 20 years in production and 20 years in maintenance and mods and the ‘minor’ issues always bite you in the butt. Wasn’t on this program but worked on other conversions and will say there was a lot of conversation wondering why they were converting these, we figured someone with more knowledge made the decision, apparently not.
Thanks Mentour for your unique insight as a pilot! I've always wanted to be a pilot, but for reasons outside of my control I can't, so I really enjoy your content! 😄
husband speaking age 80, our son is an Boeing Engr. at the Fabrication Plant in Portland, Ore. He is a lead Engr. and his group were working on one part of the new AIR FORCE ONE, which part he wouldn't say and if there is a problem, he didn't do it. We are pretty proud of him and the work he is doing for Boeing.
Another truly amazing video Petter. So insightful and entertaining. You must have an incredible research team to delve so deep into this very specific topic but I am sure you also do much of the work yourself. You are the best, have a wonderful day.
The VC-54C used by President Roosevelt during WWII is nicknamed "Sacred Cow" and is on display at the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio. You can walk through the cabin and see all the mods they made for VIP use, as well as all the 1940s avionics and communications suite the USAAF installed. Also, because FDR was wheelchair-bound, there is a wheelchair lift installed in the aft fuselage used by the president to get on and off the aircraft. The museum also has the Constellation and one of the VC-137 (707) birds that came to be known as Air Force One.
Slight correction here. Eisenhower had three Constellation aircraft. Columbine I, a standard Constellation, was put in service in 1952, but was deemed inadequate. Columbine II, a 'Super Connie', was converted and put into service in 1952. It was replaced by Columbine III in 1954, which is on display at Wright Patterson, along with Harry Truman's aircraft. Columbine II was used as a VIP aircraft by the Air Force until it was taken out of service in the late 1960's and stored at Davis Monthan . It was sold as a surplus aircraft, and ended up at Marana, Arizona in 2003, where it was 'in storage'. It was partially restored to flying condition during the 2010's. In 2016, it was flown to Bridgewater Virginia, where its restoration is continuing.
Current Boeing employee here. Current Air Force One is actually able to withstand a massive EMP attack. I can't discuss details but the plane essentially shuts down all power, reroutes energy and resources to continue all system parameters as if nothing happened. This plane's top speed would blow anyone pilot's mind... I can only say imagine having a muscle car like a Nissan GTR. It's already impressive but lift the hood and you soon realize someone added a lot of go fast parts to make it well over 2000 horsepower. This is what happened with current Air Force One
Knew it would be the door contrast, trains in Britain have a similar requirement. Although it's with the entire door rather than just the outline, since the concern is more with partly sighted passengers.
The regulations around colour schemes are quite interesting for UK trains running on network rail track. All must have bright yellow fronts for visibility to track workers, and there's also an orange "cant line" which indicates work above that height on the carriage must not be carried out when the overhead line (if present) is energised.
@@FurryMLG Nah, if someone shot that nazi in 70s, world would be vastly better place today. Him and his UK female knockoff are responsible for 90% of current economic and political problems, who knew arming religious terrorists and promoting all far right extremists would backfire...
Hi, 64 years old, retired job shopper here. I was a contractor doing tech pubs, and I have experience in M109A7s, MRAPs, UH-60s, and early on at IBM federal systems division working on the BQQ5 sonar system as an EM designer. The thing we fight against all the time in tech 0:03 pubs and engineering in general is the concept of mission creep. LOCK IN THE DESIGN or it’ll never get out of the door!!! I swear to God when somebody comes at me with an engineering change and says oh, just fix it in the pubs. I remind them that I’ve got a deadline too!!! great, now I gotta settle down… pissed me off man :)
I think the budget agreement for the VC-25B's was in part done as Boeing feared losing military side contracts that are their real profit area. Besides, they can make money on the maintenance contracts, parts on the new VC-25B, they also got rid of 2 aircraft that likely would have to be parted our or scrapped.
Percentage wise BDS has always been "higher" than BCA and sometimes BGS, but actual profit comes straight from the commercial side and now BGS is really thriving, mainly just from the freighter conversions. You are right though, past 20 or 30 years Boeing has been losing alot of the military contracts, but that's mainly because the company is being ran into the ground and our engineers are leaving because everyone is "replaceable." If you take the VC and starliner out of the equation BDS is still going good, just losing the helicopter contract and now ending the F18 in a few years BDS will be in the shitter if they don't pick up another contract.
I remember the then-president making a big deal about how we were "paying too much" for the new AF1 planes and how he went and shook Boeing down for an "amazing deal". I wonder if they were threatened with losing other contracts.
Once, while getting a tour of AF2, the VC-32A, I asked the captain about aerial refueling on the VC-25 and he informed me that the system has actually been long since deactivated. As you stated, the system just wasn't ever really used, and to keep flight crews current in air refueling just wasn't practical. In addition, the A/R receptacle being directly above the president's state room would allow the quite unacceptable risk of a fuel leak on the president's head.
Hi Mentour great video! Just a small correction. The first jet powered aircraft to enter service as Air Force One was a VC-137A known as SAM 970 from its tail number of 86970. It was later updated to VC-137B when its engines were replaced by Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3 engines. SAM 970 entered service in 1959 when Eisenhower was President and served until 1962 as Air Force One until replaced by VC-137C. It then went on to serve as then Vice President Johnson's aircraft later to be used as a delegate's aircraft transporting people like Henry Kissinger and Vice Presidents until its retirement in June of 1996.
EXACTLY! I was the crew chief on 58-6970 when it served as Air Force 2 for VP George HW Bush. I was going to point out the mistake but you did it so no need. Thanks for setting the record straight!
@@KayJay85 One interesting fact.. the front part of the fuselage was polished so much the metal had gotten so thin that when we would taxi it it would "Oil Can" as the metal flexed back and forth when the nose gear went over the tar strips between the concrete pads.
When I went to get my welding cert at the local community college, a classmate worked at Sikorsky in Stratford Ct. While I was chatting with him, he mentioned he worked on the presidential class assembly line, but he was bored and wanted welding certs to move departments. What always stuck with me was I my first question was "I thought those were pretty bespoke aircraft, how many are they making to keep a whole line in production?" to which I got the answer I should have expected which was just "yeah, that's something we don't talk about outside work"
Feels like working back in an automotive garage where you look at a part that needs replacing and think to yourself. It was all well and good for the engineers to install that there during assemble but how the chuff am I meant to get my hand+wrench in there after the fact.
Actually, the first 707 based Air Force One is not the VC-137C, instead, it was the VC-137A Stratoliner, informally known as "Queenie". The VC-137A was a 707-123 airframes with Pratt & Whitney JT3C turbojet engines. She was later refitted with TF33s, and redesignated as the VC-137B. The second 707 based Air Force One, was the 707-320B series airframe with JT3D/TF33-PW-100 turbofans, and those two aircraft had a very long career, and used by 8 different Presidents, before their retirement.
The best AF1 story is when Nixon was en route to California post-resignation . The SECOND Ford completed the oath of office ATC called AF1 and said “standby for a change in callsign”, as it was no longer Air Force One.
That may have been the case but technically Nixon was already a former president even before he left the White House. So he didn't actually fly on Army One to Andrews (an Army pilot flew the helicopter that day), or Air Force One, even though they may have still used those call signs with Nixon aboard. The previous night Nixon had announced to the nation that he would resign "effective at noon tomorrow". However regardless of what Nixon said in his speech, his presidency technically ended when a resignation letter with Nixon's signature on it was delivered to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger at 11:35 am, thirty minutes prior to Ford's swearing in. Nixon had signed the letter earlier that morning and handed it to his Chief of Staff Alexander Haig. This was prior to his farewell speech to his staff in the East Room at around 9:00 am, after which he boarded the presidential helicopter around 10:00 am. Notably the "football" with the nuclear codes remained at the White House when Nixon left. The signed letter that he left behind said nothing about noon, it simply stated, "I hereby resign the Office of President of the United States." The letter was delivered to Kissinger at 11:35 am, Kissinger wrote that time on the letter and then initialed it. That is considered the moment when Gerald Ford became president. Ford's swearing in ceremony took place at 12:05 pm. In his biography the Air Force One pilot said that he made the call informing of the call sign change at 12:03 pm (Eastern time) while the plane with Nixon onboard was in the air over Missouri. That was probably fitting as this was the ceremonial and public moment when Ford became president.
Thank you, Capt. Petter Hörnfeldt. You are always interesting, well prepared and engaging in your productions. As a USA taxpayer, I cringe everytime I think of how our "military industrial complex" (former President Dwight D. Eisenhower's term) tells us how much money they are "saving" US taxpayers. Thank you for diving into this unfortunate debacle.
It always amazes me how much americans are prepared to pay for anything other than the citizenry. I can understand using a private aircraft to get the president around from a convenience standpoint, but the entire motorcade is utterly ridiculous, especially someone carrying nuclear codes and the ambulance. Notwithstanding the fact that they're basically announcing the route, which is a rookie mistake when conducting special escorts. It's even more strange that you pay for that entire circus to be shipped overseas, including the military cars and ambulance. When exactly is a 'counter-assault' brigade going to be needed in the UK and what would happen if they did shoot someone? The worst thing that could happen is getting egged.
Seems as the typical problem between sales and engineering... 1) Sales makes random promises and pull an arbitrary deadline out of their behind, to please the customer... 2) Engineering says it's impossible to reach set objectives within set deadline... 3) Management ans sales persuade engineering to at least try, as canceling on this customer would be bad advertisement... 4) Project is delayed from the start! The engineers are stressed, work unpaid overtime, make mistakes, and are then blamed for their amateurism. 5) Project is delivered with massive delays, sales gets their promotion and/or bonuses, engineering is not invited or have left for another workplace. 6) Repeat from step 1...
In one company I worked for a long time ago (not aerospace), we went through all of this, with our sales department's special fun feature of not actually telling engineering what they had promised the customer until _after_ the promised delivery date!
@@alexandermonro6768 It's everywhere the same issue... I also work as parttime freelancer after office hours. One of my clients is nagging my head of, because we didn't meet their arbitrary deadline, which was set in January. They did change half the projects requirements in February, so not sure how I could've ever delivered on time in January...
@@timmy7201 Well, if you _had_ delivered in January, you wouldn't have to worry about the February changes! :) Except, of course they would blame you anyway... :(
Yes. In the past companies like Boeing and McDonnel Douglas had CEO's and other upper management that were former engineers or at least pilots that could keep leashes on the sales staff because of their knowledge. This is not longer even close to true.
@@alexandermonro6768 I did deliver the end of January. They changed their mind afterwards. Benefit of working freelance, is that you get paid twice this way...
This is the first time in my youtube era I write someone a comment- I didn’t even know how to it😂 You are my Inspiration and your Spirit is very important for humanity - Please keep shining your genius mind that does what he loves - SENSE’23
Any politics aside, I am *so* glad that these new Air Force Ones will ultimately stick to pretty much the same classic livery. I really was not a fan of ditching one of the most iconic aircraft liveries in the world, a design that nearly every human on Earth immediately associates with the U.S. President, for something that looked like a generic British Airways livery.
Ha, Boeing lost the KC-46 contract. They chose a rebadged Northrop-Grumman variant of the A330MRTT. Boeing protested and "won" the dispute. The problem is that the U.S. needs Boeing as much as Boeing needs US taxpayer support, so they will continue to get contracts and business will go on as usual. Meanwhile, we as a country are looking like idiots compared to our friendly rivals in Europe.
Should note that they have expressed interest in the commercial Boom Overture supersonic passenger aircraft, this could be a future contender as it has 4 engines
You mentioned the lack of weight due to flying a fraction of the passengers, but my immediate thought was "what about all the walls and furniture installed?" Any idea what the difference in weight might be between a fully loaded passenger plane versus AF1 with many walls built and furniture installed?
If you go to Boeing, Defense, Air Force One it has the specs for a normal 747-200 and the Air Force One. Air Force one has a Long-range mission takeoff gross weight of 833,000 pounds (377,842 kg) the same as the 747-200, normal 747-8 max take off of 987,000 pounds.
I live in Cincinnati and all but one of the presidential aircraft (the one at the Reagan library) are at the Air Force Museum about 40 minutes from my house. The one that carried Kennedys body is at the museum.
oh man, mid-air refueling was one of the things that made AF1 so cool. I'm amazed they got rid of it - they could stay in the air until they ran out of food or water.
Also, I thought the point of the jets being able to refuel in the air was in the event of an emergency where there was noplace deemed safe for the President to land, so he would have to stay in the air for an extended time. It doesn't seem wise to get rid of that feature just because it hasn't been used. Lots of emergency systems haven't been used, I'm sure, but they didn't leave them out!
I was in DC on 9/11 and I remember seeing one of the E4-B Doomsday planes flying low and slow over DC. I've seen one more recently. The Air Force often has an E4-B stationed at Wright Patterson AFB and I drive by there frequently.
One thing you didn't mention is the amount of electrical power required for AF1. I'm not sure a twin would be able to provide enough electrical power for all the comm gear on board.
If I was a future US President - i wouldn’t be keen to fly in this new Air Force One!! A. For all the reasons mentioned - the likelihood of multiple ‘human error’ - manufacturing defects - is way higher on a One-Off re-build like this; & B. the dangers of cutting corners (not unknown to airline manufacturers) due to cost pressures is massively magnified with this ‘fixed price’ deal where Boeing is already $1bill over budget!!! C. The parts and logistic support issues are still there!!!!! Imagine trying to get spare parts 10-15-20 years from now - essentially for a One-off build plane with quirky wiring etc etc!!!! No - I wouldn’t even want to have to pilot the plane!!!!!!!! Anyway - thanks for the update on this. Always love your you-tubes!
2:54 I once flew on an Air France 747-300. I think that might be the rarest plane I've ever been on, although I have been on an A340-600 which could be rarer.
My heart goes out to Boeing for losing over $1 billion on AF1 project… NOT. Company gets billions in contracts from defense department, so im sure they will be fine.
Boeing seems to have lost its edge as it has lately suffered a string of failures including the 737 Max debacle, the 777 design problems, the very very late moon rocket, and now this.
Part of the Max issue was keeping compatibility with something initially designed in the 60s. The engine intakes have gotten a hell of a lot bigger and therefor repositioned on the wing, but if they changed any flight characteristics of the plane, all the pilots type certified with existing 737s would have to be recertified. Its the sort of time and $ expense that would maybe push some airliners to instead opt for a Airbus model or for some in China using one made by a domestic Chinese manufacturer.
The new wiring requirements probably came from the lessons of the crash of TWA-800 in 1996. That plane had wiring that was inferior and too close to the central fuel tank. An internal fuel-slosh baffle in the main tank was ejected sideways from the plane, severing the plane in two. The AC systems under the central fuel tanks had caused a significant rise in both fuel temperature and in-tank oxygen, to affect an explosion. Those were among other NEW requirements.
The mid-air refueling is actually for 'doomsday" scenarios where the president and military staff may have to stay in the air for as long as possible-for example in a nuclear war. Obviously an enemy would try to target any base or facility where the President and Command Staff could issue orders and command forces. [if there was anything left, that is].
Yeah, I'm not super excited that they got rid of that. Was that part of the "amazing deal" Trump bragged he got on the planes? It seems to me that you don't get rid of an emergency system just because you've never had to use it.
@@laras678 The way I look at it is if there are no ground facilities available for AF1 to land at and be serviced within the US, then there is no longer a United States of America. So, I don't really see the practical need for an in-flight refueling system on the plane since that's the only scenario that would necessarily call for in-flight refueling of AF1. If the situation gets so bad that AF1 cannot possibly land and refuel at an Air Force Base or airport within the US or another part of the world, then the country has obviously been lost and the need to protect the president beyond the need to protect anyone else is no longer a mission requirement. Also, the refueling tankers have to be able to takeoff and land from the bases in the areas where AF1 is operating in order to fulfill the in-flight refueling mission. If they can do that, then AF1 can also just land there and be conventionally refueled on the ground at the same bases the tankers are going to be operating in and out of. So, please explain why in-flight refueling is necessary or practical as a requirement for the new AF1. I can come up with dozens of scenarios where the president could be airborne at the time of an unprecedented disaster (like a full nuclear exchange) and yet none of them would necessitate the use of in-flight refueling.
Go to brilliant.org/MentourNOW/ to get a 30-day free trial + the first 200 people will get 20% off their annual subscription.
0:25 paint scheme wouldn't be legal if it was a normal airliner because: 19:30 airliners need to have a thick line around the doors due to safety.
STOP WITH THE SHITTY CLICKBAITS
@@riskinhos
That glow?
Are you the YT Police? You sound like one, a nobody.
Did you hear about airbus doesn't want to pay much money to the victims of Ethiopia, because "they didn't suffer"? Disgusting 😢
Wow...Trump vs Boeing...he negociated having the american people in sight...
Stupid commercial!!!
Boeing employee here. I had the opportunity to work on the four C-32 (757) aircraft after they rolled out of the factory. It was exciting to see them up close and while I can't speak about many details, I can say that they're very impressive inside. They have a dedicated stateroom for the primary passenger, a conference room, an area of first class seating, and much more well appointed galleys than you ever see in conventional airliners.
I also had the opportunity to work with one of the 747s now being converted as a new Air Force One. Painted in all white it was used as a giant outdoor projection screen for a series of high tech videos celebrating the Boeing Company's 100th Anniversary celebration back in 2016. That experience was great fun and a highlight of my career.
Sounds gay.
Great plane for government child molesters
Me too
The last 2 2:00 747-8 were supposed to go to Russian airline transaero before they went belly up. These are the ones being converted to the new VC-25B
Well they’re a pain now lol
As an engineer, it's really hard to convince non-engineers to look past the sunk cost fallacy and accept it'll actually be more expensive to retrofit an existing unit than it would be to just start from scratch.
I learned that from This Old House, Its great people preserve these homes but if you are going to buy a house from 1895 in New England one better be aware that when you open those walls there will be surprises from 100+ years of retrofits, often not by people really trained to do them. And watching that show as a kid with my dad, those surprises were always expensive surprises.
@@filanfyretracker
Now, multiply the number of fiascos by 1,000 and multiply each one by $100,000 and one or two days of work.
yeah the best engineers in the world have never messed up estimates so i believe you................ 😅
As a software developer, I agree with you. When management says: Can you do those changes (to the existing software), one thinks: Scrap the old software and re-write a clean-sheat design from scratch, as this will be easier.
The biggest problem is that it is soo difficult to calculate. Yes, it is possible that scrapping something and starting over will eventually be cheaper, but there's no guarantee. As with any big and unique project, getting a good prediction on the actual cost is near impossible.
My brother has worked at Boeing for almost 40 years and the very first plane he worked on was the 1990 Air Force One. If you go to the Museum of Flight at Boeing Field in Seattle they have the 707 version on display and you can walk through it. It's astonishingly tiny compared to the 747 version.
"The second most distinctive aircraft in the world"
Me: "WHAT THE HELL?!"
Mentour:"Second only to the Concorde"
Me: "I will allow it"
Airliner, not aircraft, otherwise it would be further down the list 😂
Currently still flying...
I will allow it, but just barely. The Concorde did have an ugly wannabe look-a-like, the Tu-44, which of course was very seldom seen and rare. There aren't many jetliners that look like a 747 though.
The AN225 was more distinctive, but wasn't an airliner. The SR71 is more distinctive, but it's not an airliner. The Electric Lightning is more distinctive, but it's not an airliner. When it comes to airliners, the two that most people can recognize easily are the Concorde and the 747, but there are non-airliners that are even more iconic.
@@hauntedshadowslegacy2826 one is pointy and the other has a hump.
The fact that it they can be described so shortly and most people know which planes are meant says a lot
Considering how much engineering, wiring, computers, math, and the total number of different people working on these aircraft, it's simply mind blowing that thousands of these flights take off every day without incident.
Even more impressive considering the people who design and build these planes often earn less than your typical fast food burger flipper.
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24not even close lol. But I will say it's surprising considering the average intelligence of ppl working to build these planes. I work with quite a few idiots
@@bodybong I was in aerospace industry in design office. Pay is terrible across the industry for pretty much all roles and companies. Can earn more delivering pizza and it's easier and no responsibility for screw ups LOLZ 🤣🤣🤣
@@bobbyrayofthefamilysmith24 I am in the aerospace industry. Gulfstream. They pay us very well, but I also touch the plane
@@bodybong Perhaps I move to America and come work for Gulfstream. In my country most engineers/designers earn less than non skilled labourers for some reason.
So, in the opening of the video where you see three men next to the plane, the guy taking the wheel chocks to Air Force One, is me. Naval Air Station North Island in Coronado CA. A day I will never forget. It was an honor to do this.
why you walking like John Wayne?
🤣🤣🤣
@andidevlin3361 I was? I had no idea. I think it was because I was nervous. It is Air Force One after all. Who wouldn't be? All of America is watching you.
Calling you on your BS
I participated in the flight test program for the VC25A. Most of the problems mentioned on this video mirror what happened back then. It doesn’t make any sense for Boeing to build specific airplanes for this. Both VC25As were pulled from the production line and flown “green” to Wichita for rework. Wiring was the major show-stopper for the program back then, causing long delays and cost overruns. We also had to involve the FAA as we had to obtain a supplementary type certificate for the CF6-80 engines. The requirement for FAA certification for this airplane is a monumental mistake on the part of the Air Force. What were they thinking? Involving the FAA is a big PITA and completely unnecessary.
Seems like history repeats itself. Both times Boeing signed a contract that they knew they were not able to honor. In the end the VC25A was a big loss for for Boeing, as the -B will be.
I now fly 787s for a living. It is a truly fantastic airplane, so I’m not a Boeing hater. Makes me sad but, not surprised, to see how bad things continue to be at Boeing. They need a complete overhaul of their upper management beginning with the board of directors.
I agree. Boeing made a huge mistake in signing a fixed contract not knowing the certifications and ultimate rework on the green -8 aircraft. So much equipment to add to make it serviceable and something as simple as the paint work. It all adds up to huge costs that Boeing management failed to see. Worked at Andrews, so understand the processes for these very modified aircraft.
The US Air Force certification process is so onerous that no one wants to go that route, and it would not be a safer airplane either. Wright Patterson doesn't have the knowledge to define certification requirements for passenger aircraft and it doesn't have the expertise to provide regulatory oversight of certification documents. The US Air Force would simply defer to FAA certification requirements anyway because that is the minimum acceptable standard for safety.
@@jeffberner8206
The 747-8 is already certified by the FAA and all that work gets credit for Air Force “certification” purposes. That is wat we did on the A model except for the STC of the engines. Having to re-certify it by the FAA as a new type, as was implied on the video, would be very problematic and time consuming.
@@peteorengo5888 Wait a moment. It does not have a certificate at the moment, will it need an EICAS type system under the new FAA rules? Or did they get a waiver with the 737s?
@@csgergo80
I believe the 747-8 already has EICAS.
This was way more interesting than I expected it to be. You and your team do a great job explaining to non aviation industry folks
I have been wondering what was doing on with these planes. Thanks so much for the very thorough and detailed explanation and update! Nicely done!
Thank you, Petter!
I was really surprised and delighted when I heard your voice greet us on our flight back home yesterday evening! Fantastic flight and smooth landing (whether by you or your F.O.). It was an honor to be your passenger!
Enjoy your content immensely!
Keep up the good work!
Oh, that must have been cool! And a flight where you knew you'd be in excellent hands :)
@@laras678 Definitely!
Terrific ! 👍✈️
Love that you snuck in a shot of the E4B. Those aircraft were the bane of my existence when I was in the military. They would show up unannounced and required the support of the entire base.
Saw one recently, they're beautiful.
Would you mind going a bit more into detail?
Why exactly did they need so much support?
@@Jehty_ Probably just because they got insane levels of requirements and features heaved upon them.
Also quite old, that makes maintenance worse. Lots of old parts, and especially for the EMP-safety they might have more analogue parts.
The bane of our existence is true. I hated when the E4B would show up at Pease AFB when I was stationed there. Air Force One was a close second. And it happened a lot. The 88 election just finished, and it didn't matter who had won. Dukakis or Bush. Boston was just to the south of us. Kennebunkport was just to the north. It seemed like every other week, one was there. Pease was an SAC base. It was much easier to make secure. And yes, the entire base was utilized to support them.
didnt realize our military was so lazy. explains why so many accidents happen. this is what happens when you recruit guys outta hs.
Two other major considerations with wiring spacing. thermal loading and cross talk. if you make a wire bundle too thick, you can overheat the center of the bundle and cause premature failure. Tightly bundled wires can also cause errant voltages and noise on adjoining wires. This makes diagnostics and repair an absolute nightmare as imagine having a problem where the engine three RPM would climb uncommanded during flight, but only if the stabalizer, flaps, and secondary radio antenna are all in operation at the same time. that's the kind of crazy wiring gremlin that can occur if you just slap your bundles together however it's convenient.
Also, I think one of the reasons that particular platform was selected was because it can takeoff and land at shorter than normal runways for aircraft in that class, allowing the President to visit more rural airports than he could in something like a 777
Switching to fiber optic instead of wire would solve heat and crosstalk, but considering how conservative aviation and AF1 are with new tech I doubt they would pick it up
Tis is an outstanding episode. As a civilian, you really did your homework and presented all of the details about this highly specialized military airframe, especially concerning the lineage of the fleet with proper nomenclature!
Pretty heavy on the stock footage which is sad, though the commentary is somewhat entertaining, I agree with you
@@deathwishdrang1780 S'not like a European pilot can go up to USAF and request fresh footage of the VC-25, though. Stock footage is basically all anybody can get unless they clear LOTS of paperwork hurdles.
Fun fact, anyone who has assisted AF-1 on its travels can request a commemorative coin from the crew. Its not expensive and none too fancy a coin, but a friend of mine now has three of them from each time it has visited the airport that he works at.
What does "anyone who hae assisted af-1 on its travels" mean?
@@gursisingh1940 Airport personnel bro…
@@gursisingh1940 It could mean anything, such as being the aircrafts ground handler, someone who helped with the baggage or the fuel or even someone who emptied the toilets on AF1 on a long multi-day tour by the President. Not just anyone can support AF-1 when its on the ground. Those that do have to be security vetted to a higher standard than for normal airport work, so the coin is just available as a 'thank-you'.
@@Pesmog Boeing has been shit last few years
I have one!
I've been an aircraft mechanic and pilot for 40 years and truthfully it's frightening some of the things I've seen! Then you complicate it like this project and your doomed to fail from the bottom up!
Your videos are the absolute BEST aviation-related content on UA-cam Petter....you are brilliant! and I'm sure make a huge positive impact...Thank you!
When Offutt Air base experience extensive flood damage a few years back, the doomsday 747's were moved to Lincoln, NE airport and stored there until Offutt was repaired and upgraded. During that time, I drove a delivery route each week in Lincoln and had stops both at the airport and adjacent to the airport. Each week I enjoyed looking at these amazing and strange aircraft along with other smaller support craft. Sometimes, I got to see them in flight or doing practice take offs and landings. I would enjoy a dedicated video on these aircraft, even with limited information available. Love your videos.
@notfiveo Petter is from Sweden. He lives in Barcelona because of his job.
Kinda funny that the new air force 1 was originally intended for Russia
@@John-86< I don’t think the current president is an American or at least is for America.
I went to offutt in the 70s with a group of helicopters when the runway was under repair. While in left seat as a crew chief ,I was almost killed by a pilot who was having a very bad day.while taking off in an extreme nose down ,the aircraft “slipped “.that’s when I screamed like a little girl.luckily nobody else heard me. I guess now days in the military screening like a little girl would be quite normal.
@@CapaNoisyCapa and probably the weather.
This is a great series! I liked it so much that I bought a Mentour Pilot coffee mug. However, the mug had a misprint. (They printed both graphics on top of each other and it looks terrible...) I've been going back and forth with Spring via email trying to get a replacement, and they're extremely difficult considering we're talking about a mug that costs less than $20. So, please keep up the great work on the series - but maybe seek out a new company to make the merchandise...
Good for you to leave a comment about it. Especially when he advertises his merch. under the video. It's inconsiderate to have to jump through hoops over it. Good luck.🍀✈
Did you get the issue resolved?
Always knew this grifter was a crook. If u can't make right on a mug after coming to your attention then u can't be trusted with bigger issues
Petter, always enjoy your thorough coverage of aviation. This video is no exception. Thank you for making this Saturday morning better. 👍
Awesome! Great to have you here.
Always fantastic.
At the same time, thank you for making this Saturday noon better here in France. 👍
This was really interesting! I never thought of the wiring separation being a factor in the cost but I have learned something new. Thanks for sharing this.
Excellent video. I have watched most of your videos. I loved this one because of the brief history you added. Being a Railway Professional, I know very little of how the Air Transportation industry works. However, thanks to your very informative videos, the detail in which has expanded my knowledge. Are you a trainer in the Airline industry? If not you should be as you have a very natural instinct in how to make a subject matter very interesting and captivating. Keep up the excellent videos, many thanks. Ray.
Enjoyed the video! Thank you. Comment: @ 15:57, the section highlighted is about bend radius, not separation although it's likely that the bend radius requirement would affect routing.
As always, a well thought out, detailed and narrated story. And very interesting as well! I always learn something new watching your videos. Thanks again!
We have a retired Air Force One here at our local base (not used as a base anymore except for the runway/tower)along with many other retired military planes. Very cool to be able to see all of these amazing planes up close.
Which one and where?
@@alanm2842 There is a Jetstar (the first business jet) in presidential colors at the LBJ ranch, however Johnson only used that particular one while he was vice-president. He used several other Jetstars while he was president, but those are at other museums including one at the USAF museum in Dayton. Also at Dayton are the Roosevelt, Truman and Eisenhower prop planes, along with the 707 that President Kennedy used on his fateful trip to Dallas.
An earlier 707 that was used as Air Force One by Eisenhower and Kennedy is at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. Another early presidential 707 is at the Pima Air Museum in Tucson. A later 707 used by Nixon, Ford and Reagan is at the Reagan Library in California.
They have several of the old ones at the US Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. I *really* hope one of the VC-25As makes it there after the VC-25Bs enter service, though I'm not sure where they'll have space to put it. It's pretty cool to walk through the old Air Force One aircraft, though, obviously, none of the retired ones are anywhere near the scale of the VC-25s. Being able to walk through those would be awesome. Needless to say, I'll be planning another trip to Dayton if/when they get one of those open to the public. - haha
Monthan Davis?
@@E_Legal_Alien That could be it, although it would be at the Pima Air Museum which is located adjacent to the base. They actually have a couple of planes there that were used as Air Force One, although neither was ever the primary Air Force One. There is one of the three early 707's that was purchased in 1959 for VIP use. SAM 970 was the primary 707 used by Eisenhower and Kennedy until the newer intercontinental 707 arrived in 1962. SAM 970 is now at the Museum of Flight in Seattle. The one at Pima is SAM 971 which mostly carried other VIP's, but it was also sometimes used as a backup Air Force One when SAM 970 was not available.
There is also a VC-118 at Pima which is a military version of the DC-6. It's not the one that was used by Truman as his primary Air Force One, that one is at the USAF museum in Dayton. However the VC-118A at Pima was set aside for presidential use by both Kennedy and Johnson and was used when they flew into smaller airports that wouldn't accommodate the 707, like when Kennedy flew to Hyannis Port. It's historic also because it was the last propeller driven airplane used as Air Force One.
Folks, this incredible best in class channel has about 220k subscribers…it should be double that in my opinion. This host and his research/delivery is best in class.,.and appeals to both the enthusiast as well the lay person…as well as kids who are interested in the aviation subject…it is educational and inspirational
I was flying out of Andrews AFB in Maryland in T-39s (Sabreliners) in the mid-seventies when the first VC-25A appeared on base. It looked absolutely HUGE, especially when compared to the little 12,500-pound jet I was flying. We were all quite impressed, then, and frankly I think the 74 and its cousin the VC-25A are still the most impressive aircraft around.
The 73 is impressive, too, as it takes up where the DC-3 left off (or actually is still leaving off) in longevity and utility.
Thanks Mentour for your unique insight as a pilot and making this Saturday morning better.
I have never laughed during one of your very informative videos. Your dry and ironic approach to explaining Boeing’s dilemma for this Air Force 747s was just very funny. Well done!
I did a review of the previous program when it was behind schedule. One of the contributors was the air stairs and doors being required to be on the port side of the aircraft. Boeing wanted to put them on the opposite side as there would be much less disruption of lines and wiring but it was insisted that they had to be on the port side so that the "United States of America" would read from nose to tail and not the other way around for that iconic image.
Ridiculous. Just like our government
That's what happens when uneducated opinionated politicians make decisions, and not seasoned engineers.
Yes .... ridiculous. But, they are spending other peoples money, so, I guess that makes it right😢.
@@jasonstarr7335 the blame for fancy air force ones falls on jackie kennedy (a democrat🦆...)
A color change is fancy? you must be easily impressed and what does a political party have to do with anything? @@jgunther3398
Excellent video! It was also very informative and you dug up details about the troubled VC-25B program that aren't commonly known.
A well-researched and well-produced video! There are a few additional items that need to be considered. These aircraft will also need to conform to Military certification standards which includes Mil-Spec wiring. Commercial-certificated wiring will not suffice. The VC-25B's will also feature updated military systems which requires additional wiring and environmental cooling. Consider this: ECS ducting is much less flexible than wire bundles and needs to be fitted in places with little space and no prior mounting provisions.
Excellent video. I don't know why you're not appearing in my feed. I miss you!
I am a retired reliability engineer out of the oil industry. So many of the major projects that I reviewed, seemed to have been dreamed up, agreed to and signed on the golf course. All of the projects had major flaws that were very easy to spot once reviewed. One plant would have blown up and destroyed everything that would have been surrounding. A rail project (I know not oil, but I was assigned to it) I calculated would cost $11 bn instead of the budgeted $3 bn, and it did. From my perspective none of the issues in this vlog over the plane here are a surprise, more likely totally to be expected. Doing the reviews is really easy, but almost no board want them done before the contract, they think they can get around any challenges - back on the golf course.
Rail project that costs billions more than initially "figured?" Sounds like California's "Train To Nowhere." Voters passed a measure which would fund half the then-projected cost. So it was half-baked from the very start.
I was fortunate to become friends with a WWII pilot named Joe Varisco through a good friend and corporate pilot around 1990. Joe flew his little AA-1 Grumman American plane out of KDXR the same time I was working on my Private pilot flight training. He had retired years earlier from an airline career flying the Lockheed Constellation. I think he might have flow the Grumman F6F Hellcat during the war. He was such a nice man with a great sense of humor that unfortunately passed not too many years after I left the New York area. He spoke about the lovely sound the engines made, and how amazingly responsive and fun to fly the aircraft was.
Have you thought of a series where sports teams have flown, close shaves or disasters? The thing is that an aircraft has a random collection of passengers while a team flight has a closely knit group of passengers. Love the channel!
I think since one accident where a whole team flew together, most major sports teams elect to fly on separate planes to ensure that one accident won’t take all of them out.
The door should be a contrasting colour or outlined to be identifiable easily, I'm thinking is what is 'wrong' for that colour scheme to be used commercially.
Congrats!!! 🎊🎉 well done
@@MentourNow Stood out like dog's b**ls - and good point you made at the end - if the cert process is so strict about wiring etc, how about getting the doors up to FAA cert standard?
Color*
Funny. I stopped the video and had a chat with my hubby about the question. (he's an airplane nut & retired AF) I guessed that it was the doors and said "For a commercial airliner the doors need to be obvious for safety reasons. However, for Air Force One the doors need to be concealed also for safety reasons." I was right! lol 😁
I was thinking that official markings like the presidential seal would be illegal for an airliner, but I guess that was too obvious 😅
Such brilliant and information rich narration! I am hooked.
Your videos are highly informative and well produced. Information by the bucket load. Great work.
I have been lucky enough to see the E4B in person once. Scary because of what it is used for should it be needed, but awesome to see fly at our local airport.
The Lockheed Constallation was a beautiful looking aircraft!
It really was! 💕✈️
@@MentourNow Spealkimg of the us airforce i tracked 1 of their C-17 Globemasters at Dublin Airport and as it was taking off i went outside into the back garden and sure enough i saw it...i live VERY close to Dublin Airport
Classic designs like the Connie and B747 never look dated.
I'd so love to fly in one! You're right--such a beautiful and memorable design!
The de Havilland Comet is another of these planes. Despite it's flaws and age it still looks like an incredibly modern design.
This man’s aviation knowledge is some next level. Bravo Petter 🎉 Really enjoy your high quality videos with unique insights
Great review. I spent 20 years in production and 20 years in maintenance and mods and the ‘minor’ issues always bite you in the butt.
Wasn’t on this program but worked on other conversions and will say there was a lot of conversation wondering why they were converting these, we figured someone with more knowledge made the decision, apparently not.
Thanks Mentour for your unique insight as a pilot!
I've always wanted to be a pilot, but for reasons outside of my control I can't, so I really enjoy your content! 😄
This is a GREAT video - answers all the questions I had
JR
Awesome! Glad to hear that
You never fail to cover interesting topics, best channel on yt
A 747 with airstairs just looks cool, and always will!
They need a stair lift in case Biden gets reelected
@@johnarnell4241 for Biden...anything the man needs. He earned it. 😂 hell, FDR was in a wheelchair.
@@johnarnell4241
And a forklift in case Trump is reelected.
husband speaking age 80, our son is an Boeing Engr. at the Fabrication Plant in Portland, Ore. He is a lead Engr. and his group
were working on one part of the new AIR FORCE ONE, which part he wouldn't say and if there is a problem, he didn't do it. We are
pretty proud of him and the work he is doing for Boeing.
Another truly amazing video Petter. So insightful and entertaining. You must have an incredible research team to delve so deep into this very specific topic but I am sure you also do much of the work yourself.
You are the best, have a wonderful day.
The VC-54C used by President Roosevelt during WWII is nicknamed "Sacred Cow" and is on display at the USAF Museum in Dayton, Ohio. You can walk through the cabin and see all the mods they made for VIP use, as well as all the 1940s avionics and communications suite the USAAF installed. Also, because FDR was wheelchair-bound, there is a wheelchair lift installed in the aft fuselage used by the president to get on and off the aircraft. The museum also has the Constellation and one of the VC-137 (707) birds that came to be known as Air Force One.
Slight correction here. Eisenhower had three Constellation aircraft. Columbine I, a standard Constellation, was put in service in 1952, but was deemed inadequate. Columbine II, a 'Super Connie', was converted and put into service in 1952. It was replaced by Columbine III in 1954, which is on display at Wright Patterson, along with Harry Truman's aircraft. Columbine II was used as a VIP aircraft by the Air Force until it was taken out of service in the late 1960's and stored at Davis Monthan . It was sold as a surplus aircraft, and ended up at Marana, Arizona in 2003, where it was 'in storage'. It was partially restored to flying condition during the 2010's. In 2016, it was flown to Bridgewater Virginia, where its restoration is continuing.
Current Boeing employee here. Current Air Force One is actually able to withstand a massive EMP attack. I can't discuss details but the plane essentially shuts down all power, reroutes energy and resources to continue all system parameters as if nothing happened. This plane's top speed would blow anyone pilot's mind... I can only say imagine having a muscle car like a Nissan GTR. It's already impressive but lift the hood and you soon realize someone added a lot of go fast parts to make it well over 2000 horsepower. This is what happened with current Air Force One
Knew it would be the door contrast, trains in Britain have a similar requirement. Although it's with the entire door rather than just the outline, since the concern is more with partly sighted passengers.
It was ALSO the CHROME FINISH!
The regulations around colour schemes are quite interesting for UK trains running on network rail track. All must have bright yellow fronts for visibility to track workers, and there's also an orange "cant line" which indicates work above that height on the carriage must not be carried out when the overhead line (if present) is energised.
I appreciate the shot of Reagan reading "Air Force One is Haunted" while on a plane 😂😂
Yeah. Reagan's based like that.
@@FurryMLG Nah, if someone shot that nazi in 70s, world would be vastly better place today. Him and his UK female knockoff are responsible for 90% of current economic and political problems, who knew arming religious terrorists and promoting all far right extremists would backfire...
President Reagan understood the value of a good meme before memes were a thing. 😉
Reagan was a great President.
@@melrose9252 ok chad
Hi, 64 years old, retired job shopper here. I was a contractor doing tech pubs, and I have experience in M109A7s, MRAPs, UH-60s, and early on at IBM federal systems division working on the BQQ5 sonar system as an EM designer. The thing we fight against all the time in tech 0:03 pubs and engineering in general is the concept of mission creep. LOCK IN THE DESIGN or it’ll never get out of the door!!!
I swear to God when somebody comes at me with an engineering change and says oh, just fix it in the pubs. I remind them that I’ve got a deadline too!!!
great, now I gotta settle down… pissed me off man :)
I think the budget agreement for the VC-25B's was in part done as Boeing feared losing military side contracts that are their real profit area. Besides, they can make money on the maintenance contracts, parts on the new VC-25B, they also got rid of 2 aircraft that likely would have to be parted our or scrapped.
Percentage wise BDS has always been "higher" than BCA and sometimes BGS, but actual profit comes straight from the commercial side and now BGS is really thriving, mainly just from the freighter conversions. You are right though, past 20 or 30 years Boeing has been losing alot of the military contracts, but that's mainly because the company is being ran into the ground and our engineers are leaving because everyone is "replaceable." If you take the VC and starliner out of the equation BDS is still going good, just losing the helicopter contract and now ending the F18 in a few years BDS will be in the shitter if they don't pick up another contract.
I remember the then-president making a big deal about how we were "paying too much" for the new AF1 planes and how he went and shook Boeing down for an "amazing deal". I wonder if they were threatened with losing other contracts.
Once, while getting a tour of AF2, the VC-32A, I asked the captain about aerial refueling on the VC-25 and he informed me that the system has actually been long since deactivated. As you stated, the system just wasn't ever really used, and to keep flight crews current in air refueling just wasn't practical. In addition, the A/R receptacle being directly above the president's state room would allow the quite unacceptable risk of a fuel leak on the president's head.
Hi Mentour great video! Just a small correction. The first jet powered aircraft to enter service as Air Force One was a VC-137A known as SAM 970 from its tail number of 86970. It was later updated to VC-137B when its engines were replaced by Pratt & Whitney JT3D-3 engines.
SAM 970 entered service in 1959 when Eisenhower was President and served until 1962 as Air Force One until replaced by VC-137C. It then went on to serve as then Vice President Johnson's aircraft later to be used as a delegate's aircraft transporting people like Henry Kissinger and Vice Presidents until its retirement in June of 1996.
EXACTLY! I was the crew chief on 58-6970 when it served as Air Force 2 for VP George HW Bush. I was going to point out the mistake but you did it so no need. Thanks for setting the record straight!
@@mpcazNo problem and thanks for your hard work! We're doing our best up in Seattle to keep her in one piece.
@@KayJay85 One interesting fact.. the front part of the fuselage was polished so much the metal had gotten so thin that when we would taxi it it would "Oil Can" as the metal flexed back and forth when the nose gear went over the tar strips between the concrete pads.
@@mpcaz Wow! Thanks for that info! I'll see about working it into my narrative about the aircraft at the museum!
When I went to get my welding cert at the local community college, a classmate worked at Sikorsky in Stratford Ct. While I was chatting with him, he mentioned he worked on the presidential class assembly line, but he was bored and wanted welding certs to move departments. What always stuck with me was I my first question was "I thought those were pretty bespoke aircraft, how many are they making to keep a whole line in production?" to which I got the answer I should have expected which was just "yeah, that's something we don't talk about outside work"
Feels like working back in an automotive garage where you look at a part that needs replacing and think to yourself. It was all well and good for the engineers to install that there during assemble but how the chuff am I meant to get my hand+wrench in there after the fact.
Actually, the first 707 based Air Force One is not the VC-137C, instead, it was the VC-137A Stratoliner, informally known as "Queenie". The VC-137A was a 707-123 airframes with Pratt & Whitney JT3C turbojet engines. She was later refitted with TF33s, and redesignated as the VC-137B. The second 707 based Air Force One, was the 707-320B series airframe with JT3D/TF33-PW-100 turbofans, and those two aircraft had a very long career, and used by 8 different Presidents, before their retirement.
Actually, it was 7 Presidents Reagan made a return journey so counts as two presidents one each way.
Any idea which one is now on display at the Reagan Library?
@@mroberts7117 SAM 27000.
These guys airplane
@@johnosbourn4312 Is 26000 at the Boeing Museum in Seattle?
I helped building AF1 interior 7 days a week 12 hour days for 2 1/2 years. Awesome plane
The best AF1 story is when Nixon was en route to California post-resignation . The SECOND Ford completed the oath of office ATC called AF1 and said “standby for a change in callsign”, as it was no longer Air Force One.
That may have been the case but technically Nixon was already a former president even before he left the White House. So he didn't actually fly on Army One to Andrews (an Army pilot flew the helicopter that day), or Air Force One, even though they may have still used those call signs with Nixon aboard.
The previous night Nixon had announced to the nation that he would resign "effective at noon tomorrow". However regardless of what Nixon said in his speech, his presidency technically ended when a resignation letter with Nixon's signature on it was delivered to Secretary of State Henry Kissinger at 11:35 am, thirty minutes prior to Ford's swearing in. Nixon had signed the letter earlier that morning and handed it to his Chief of Staff Alexander Haig. This was prior to his farewell speech to his staff in the East Room at around 9:00 am, after which he boarded the presidential helicopter around 10:00 am. Notably the "football" with the nuclear codes remained at the White House when Nixon left.
The signed letter that he left behind said nothing about noon, it simply stated, "I hereby resign the Office of President of the United States." The letter was delivered to Kissinger at 11:35 am, Kissinger wrote that time on the letter and then initialed it. That is considered the moment when Gerald Ford became president. Ford's swearing in ceremony took place at 12:05 pm.
In his biography the Air Force One pilot said that he made the call informing of the call sign change at 12:03 pm (Eastern time) while the plane with Nixon onboard was in the air over Missouri. That was probably fitting as this was the ceremonial and public moment when Ford became president.
SNAFU and FUBAR are some obvious acronyms to describe the state of Boeing these days. They really need a total reboot.
You know what's slower than Boeing? Your merch store order fulfillment during the holidays.
Thank you, Capt. Petter Hörnfeldt. You are always interesting, well prepared and engaging in your productions. As a USA taxpayer, I cringe everytime I think of how our "military industrial complex" (former President Dwight D. Eisenhower's term) tells us how much money they are "saving" US taxpayers. Thank you for diving into this unfortunate debacle.
It always amazes me how much americans are prepared to pay for anything other than the citizenry.
I can understand using a private aircraft to get the president around from a convenience standpoint, but the entire motorcade is utterly ridiculous, especially someone carrying nuclear codes and the ambulance. Notwithstanding the fact that they're basically announcing the route, which is a rookie mistake when conducting special escorts.
It's even more strange that you pay for that entire circus to be shipped overseas, including the military cars and ambulance. When exactly is a 'counter-assault' brigade going to be needed in the UK and what would happen if they did shoot someone? The worst thing that could happen is getting egged.
I saved 1 Trillion Dollars by not buying Microsoft.
Thank you so much for your support!
Seems as the typical problem between sales and engineering...
1) Sales makes random promises and pull an arbitrary deadline out of their behind, to please the customer...
2) Engineering says it's impossible to reach set objectives within set deadline...
3) Management ans sales persuade engineering to at least try, as canceling on this customer would be bad advertisement...
4) Project is delayed from the start! The engineers are stressed, work unpaid overtime, make mistakes, and are then blamed for their amateurism.
5) Project is delivered with massive delays, sales gets their promotion and/or bonuses, engineering is not invited or have left for another workplace.
6) Repeat from step 1...
In one company I worked for a long time ago (not aerospace), we went through all of this, with our sales department's special fun feature of not actually telling engineering what they had promised the customer until _after_ the promised delivery date!
@@alexandermonro6768 It's everywhere the same issue...
I also work as parttime freelancer after office hours.
One of my clients is nagging my head of, because we didn't meet their arbitrary deadline, which was set in January.
They did change half the projects requirements in February, so not sure how I could've ever delivered on time in January...
@@timmy7201 Well, if you _had_ delivered in January, you wouldn't have to worry about the February changes! :)
Except, of course they would blame you anyway... :(
Yes. In the past companies like Boeing and McDonnel Douglas had CEO's and other upper management that were former engineers or at least pilots that could keep leashes on the sales staff because of their knowledge. This is not longer even close to true.
@@alexandermonro6768 I did deliver the end of January. They changed their mind afterwards.
Benefit of working freelance, is that you get paid twice this way...
This is the first time in my youtube era I write someone a comment- I didn’t even know how to it😂 You are my Inspiration and your Spirit is very important for humanity - Please keep shining your genius mind that does what he loves - SENSE’23
Any politics aside, I am *so* glad that these new Air Force Ones will ultimately stick to pretty much the same classic livery. I really was not a fan of ditching one of the most iconic aircraft liveries in the world, a design that nearly every human on Earth immediately associates with the U.S. President, for something that looked like a generic British Airways livery.
The baby blue is ugly and really doesn't show strength
The E-4B replacement RFP kicked off in 2021. Be interesting to see who responds and if Boeing would go the same route.
Wonder if Airbus would offer something.
@@Hans-gb4mv Even if they did crasheing would screech till the contract was cancelled and given to them instead. See that air tanker bid Airbus won...
Ha, Boeing lost the KC-46 contract. They chose a rebadged Northrop-Grumman variant of the A330MRTT. Boeing protested and "won" the dispute. The problem is that the U.S. needs Boeing as much as Boeing needs US taxpayer support, so they will continue to get contracts and business will go on as usual. Meanwhile, we as a country are looking like idiots compared to our friendly rivals in Europe.
@@VisibilityFoggy< Don’t kid yourself, there is nothing friendly about the European Rivals.
Another excellent presentation! Thank you.
Should note that they have expressed interest in the commercial Boom Overture supersonic passenger aircraft, this could be a future contender as it has 4 engines
Way too small.
Hope you will discuss the latest Max issue.
I’ll see what I can do
You mentioned the lack of weight due to flying a fraction of the passengers, but my immediate thought was "what about all the walls and furniture installed?" Any idea what the difference in weight might be between a fully loaded passenger plane versus AF1 with many walls built and furniture installed?
If you go to Boeing, Defense, Air Force One it has the specs for a normal 747-200 and the Air Force One. Air Force one has a Long-range mission takeoff gross weight of 833,000 pounds (377,842 kg) the same as the 747-200, normal 747-8 max take off of 987,000 pounds.
I live in Cincinnati and all but one of the presidential aircraft (the one at the Reagan library) are at the Air Force Museum about 40 minutes from my house. The one that carried Kennedys body is at the museum.
Dayton? That's like a hub of military aviation. The Wright brothers liked it too.
@@joesterling4299 AFMC, AFLCMC, and AFRL headquarters.
oh man, mid-air refueling was one of the things that made AF1 so cool. I'm amazed they got rid of it - they could stay in the air until they ran out of food or water.
As long as the tanker fleet can still operate, that is. So if shit really hits the fan, it might not matter that this capability theoretically exists.
@@farminglol Don't forget that the Air Force has over 600 tankers.
Funny Fact, the engine oil getting bad is the actual limit for the endurance but theoretically even with that it can be in the air for 2-3 days
@@stevewhite3424 Oh I'm not worried about the amount of tankers. But if it's safe for tankers to land repeatedly, then so can Air Force One.
I’m surprised by this too. I’d have thought that would be a hard requirement.
Also, I thought the point of the jets being able to refuel in the air was in the event of an emergency where there was noplace deemed safe for the President to land, so he would have to stay in the air for an extended time. It doesn't seem wise to get rid of that feature just because it hasn't been used. Lots of emergency systems haven't been used, I'm sure, but they didn't leave them out!
That wouldn’t happen. Think from Diagonal Garcia to the Philippines to Australia.
If that happens in reality, there's no point in being up there anyway.
What was once run by engineers is now run by accountants. No wonder Boing keeps stepping on itself
I was in DC on 9/11 and I remember seeing one of the E4-B Doomsday planes flying low and slow over DC. I've seen one more recently. The Air Force often has an E4-B stationed at Wright Patterson AFB and I drive by there frequently.
Right, I know the pilot who was in the E-4B at WPAFB on 9/11.
With the quality of Presidential candidates in recent times maybe solo flights on miniature Hindenburg replicas should be considered.
Yeah, Biden & Harris are the lowest of the low.
Well done. Great informative fun!
One thing you didn't mention is the amount of electrical power required for AF1. I'm not sure a twin would be able to provide enough electrical power for all the comm gear on board.
Just install larger electrical generators? I read 787 runs 4 electrical generators totaling 1000kVA of power already.
I guarantee there was a huge group of engineers saying this contract would run over and Boeing leadership signed anyways.
Terrific video. Incredibly informative.
What a surprise that Boeing managements disconnected with engineers
LOL. everything is a light bulb or sticky note to them. they don't want to understand complicated things.
Cost overruns and delays with Boeing??? I can't believe it!!🤣🤣👍👍
Boeing is now a Detroit in world aircraft industry. Had it.
If I was a future US President - i wouldn’t be keen to fly in this new Air Force One!! A. For all the reasons mentioned - the likelihood of multiple ‘human error’ - manufacturing defects - is way higher on a One-Off re-build like this; & B. the dangers of cutting corners (not unknown to airline manufacturers) due to cost pressures is massively magnified with this ‘fixed price’ deal where Boeing is already $1bill over budget!!! C. The parts and logistic support issues are still there!!!!! Imagine trying to get spare parts 10-15-20 years from now - essentially for a One-off build plane with quirky wiring etc etc!!!! No - I wouldn’t even want to have to pilot the plane!!!!!!!! Anyway - thanks for the update on this. Always love your you-tubes!
An over budget, and delayed government/Boeing project!? No way! 😅😅
Not enough Johns on it.
2:54 I once flew on an Air France 747-300. I think that might be the rarest plane I've ever been on, although I have been on an A340-600 which could be rarer.
Not many 747-3s were made - the big demand models after the initial 747-1s were the 747-2s and 747-4s
Plenty of A340-600 still flying today.
The largest manufacturing building in the world: Everett Washington... just down the road from me. 😊❤
Ten bucks says a Boeing engineer brought up the wiring issue early and a manager shot them down.
Then the engineer was fired and the manager promoted for saving $ on "unnecessary" wiring😲
My heart goes out to Boeing for losing over $1 billion on AF1 project… NOT. Company gets billions in contracts from defense department, so im sure they will be fine.
I enjoy your commentaries.
L-1011 was better than the DC-10
Boeing seems to have lost its edge as it has lately suffered a string of failures including the 737 Max debacle, the 777 design problems, the very very late moon rocket, and now this.
Part of the Max issue was keeping compatibility with something initially designed in the 60s. The engine intakes have gotten a hell of a lot bigger and therefor repositioned on the wing, but if they changed any flight characteristics of the plane, all the pilots type certified with existing 737s would have to be recertified. Its the sort of time and $ expense that would maybe push some airliners to instead opt for a Airbus model or for some in China using one made by a domestic Chinese manufacturer.
No way in hell will I ever be a passenger in an airliner built in China. @@smalltime0
This is an amazing video. SiR love your channel
The new wiring requirements probably came from the lessons of the crash of TWA-800 in 1996. That plane had wiring that was inferior and too close to the central fuel tank. An internal fuel-slosh baffle in the main tank was ejected sideways from the plane, severing the plane in two. The AC systems under the central fuel tanks had caused a significant rise in both fuel temperature and in-tank oxygen, to affect an explosion. Those were among other NEW requirements.
Imagine they buy A380 out of nowhere...
this guy and JB are my go too guys for all things aviation
An added delay has been the extra wiring and equipment required for the new stair lift 😉
The mid-air refueling is actually for 'doomsday" scenarios where the president and military staff may have to stay in the air for as long as possible-for example in a nuclear war. Obviously an enemy would try to target any base or facility where the President and Command Staff could issue orders and command forces. [if there was anything left, that is].
Yeah, I'm not super excited that they got rid of that. Was that part of the "amazing deal" Trump bragged he got on the planes? It seems to me that you don't get rid of an emergency system just because you've never had to use it.
Yep. And it's not so easy to just put a 747 down in a field somewhere...
@@laras678 The way I look at it is if there are no ground facilities available for AF1 to land at and be serviced within the US, then there is no longer a United States of America. So, I don't really see the practical need for an in-flight refueling system on the plane since that's the only scenario that would necessarily call for in-flight refueling of AF1. If the situation gets so bad that AF1 cannot possibly land and refuel at an Air Force Base or airport within the US or another part of the world, then the country has obviously been lost and the need to protect the president beyond the need to protect anyone else is no longer a mission requirement. Also, the refueling tankers have to be able to takeoff and land from the bases in the areas where AF1 is operating in order to fulfill the in-flight refueling mission. If they can do that, then AF1 can also just land there and be conventionally refueled on the ground at the same bases the tankers are going to be operating in and out of. So, please explain why in-flight refueling is necessary or practical as a requirement for the new AF1. I can come up with dozens of scenarios where the president could be airborne at the time of an unprecedented disaster (like a full nuclear exchange) and yet none of them would necessitate the use of in-flight refueling.
@@laras678 everything that clown says it's a bullshit
had absolutely no idea on the door thing. Makes total sense!