The opening shot of ST09 just sold me on the style and look of the Kelvin universe. Starting super close up on the hull of the USS Kelvin, slowly zooming out as the ship flies by, hearing the beeping noises on top of that. It was Trek as we hadn't seen since The Motion Picture, finally looking gloriously cinematic again.
One of the best things about the Kelvin timeline movies is the score. Michael Giacchino did a really, really good job with creating music that is specific to that trilogy. Not the best of the best of music in sci fi, but still quite great.
Honestly, that score and in particular “Enterprising Young Men” is something I can RAVE about for ages. It’s fantastic and I have no idea how Giacchino did such an amazing job.
I live on the outskirts of São Paulo, Brazil, and I remember seeing three kids on the street practicing the Vulcan nerve pinch. This was just after Into the Darkness was released. Of course, I don't have how to be certain of that, but I believe that the Kelvin timeline movies brought Star Trek to the lives of that kids and this is so awesome. I know a lot of people don't appreciate theses movies but I love how a new audience discovered Star Trek with them.
I have a friend who, like me, is a die hard fan of star trek. He hates the Kelvin timeline... I keep telling him that the ways in which we view film has changed, and that a new generation needs Star Trek, and that this is a great way to bring them into the fold.... OG TOS fans tended to be divisive about TNG btw... things change... not for better or worse, always... but things change... I'm glad star trek is back!
I saw all 3 of them in theaters, in full uniform. Prior to that the last Trek film I'd seen in theaters was First Contact for my 10th birthday. It reinvigorated my love for Trek, so much so that prior to Beyond coming out(around 2015) I started a 50 year marathon to watch all of Trek that had came out up to that point. By September 8th of 2016, I was on Beyond(3rd time). Hell I even don't hate the 360 game released in between 09 and Into Darkness (despite being stuck in Gorn Engineering). I also love that without the KT films, no new Trek shows would be in production as 1, Kurtzman started by writing 09 with Bob Orcci. And 2(more importantly) It wouldn't have produced the groundswell to convince CBS to greenlight 6 SHOWS IN 4 YEARS
The survival jackets from Beyond are awesome. LMK if you ever find one :). Great video. I think it would be pretty cool to see 24th/25th century Kelvin timeline, actually having the budget to make some amazing looking future tech. Also, Yorktown was incredible.
The greatest thing about the Kelvin films is that it made get back into the Star Trek. Seeing Star Trek 09 made everything fresh and exciting to me, it made me want to find the TOS and TNG episodes I'd seen on repeat when I was a kid. In turn that led me to DS9 and the rest of the franchise.
I definitely agree on all the points made in the video (especially that on Into Darkness) and these are things I also love about these films, and for me personally what I love about the Kelvin Timeline overall is how it got people who had never seen Star Trek into the franchise and created a new generation of fans, and getting people who would had never given the older shows or films a chance to now check them out because of the Kelvin films, as well as revitalise Star Trek in the main publics eye, without these films Star Trek could possibly have been forgotten, but is now going stronger than ever.
I'm not a huge fan of these films, I can enjoy 1 & 3, though not at the same level as the original films. I think creating the Kelvin timeline was the best way to handle this, they just dropped the execution of it here and there. That said, I'd like to see it continue and would certainly give a 4th movie a chance.
You cant say any of TNG movies are better than the Kelvin movies with the exception of First Contact. TOS movies were great though, JJ saved Trek though
@@whitleybayman123 Nope, you are correct there, the last two TNG were pretty bad, with Generations having more of a 2 part episode feel than a major film. As I said, I don't mind 1&3 of the Kelvin films, they had some weak points, but are decent, but I can't stand #2. I should point out when I said "original" I was talking TOS cast.
Fuck the Kelvin timeline. Seriously, it has just shit on the lore and destroyed the established Star Trek universe, just to cash in on TOS nostalgia. While I can put my disgust aside for the most part and enjoy them as movies, I loathe what they have done. What was wrong with continuing the story from DS9 and Voyager - pushing into the Delta quadrant or finding another wormhole to another quadrant? The "infinite scope" of story telling could have been had without shitting on everything that came before.
@@alaricgoldkuhl155 Destruction of Romulus aside (hate the idea, and fallout from it), creating the Kelvin universe was the best way to not ruin the lore set up by the Prime timeline, one reason a lot of folks took issue with Discovery, it's better suited for the Kelvin universe. As to continuing DS9 or Voyager ideas, I think those would be better suited for TV vs film, hell I'd even argue that TNG should never have made the jump, 1 good film, 1 mediocre film, and 2 awful ones.
@@darthphayde508 Yeah, I've a massive problem with Discovery too. Able to put my misgivings aside and enjoy it mostly, but everything I loved about Trek is in the toilet now. Had a problem with the time paradox crap in Enterprise as well. Redeemed in season 4 (best Trek season EVER imo before cancellation). Such a massive universe with huge scope for new story telling. Why they gotta shit on previous Trek to do it is a mystery.
I think Nicholas Meyer said it best. (From an interview he did with the official Star Trek site) "I know what II (Wrath of Khan) is about. II is about friendship, old age and death. I know what IV (The Voyage Home) is about. It’s about extinction. It’s about taking care, ecologically, of the only home that we have. I understand what VI (The Undiscovered Country) is about. It’s about the collapse of the Soviet Union, and it’s about change and fear of change and “Have we reached the end of history?".... I don't know what the ideas are in the new Star Trek movies. I understand that they’re rebooting them, but that’s a mechanical chore, that’s a technical chore. I don't understand what they’re about."
09 is about the inevitability of tragedy and how one reacts to it. Into Darkness is about maturity and taking responsibility for one’s own actions. Beyond is about losing one’s way and rediscovering purpose. Can Nicholas Meyer not interpret something he didn’t write because I see the idea in all six films mentioned here and I worked on none of them. A very childish statement on his part.
I'm with you. I found the Kelvin timeline fascinating and I loved all the movies. For each one, I bought a ticket to an arclight theater on a Sunday morning, first showing, and watched the movie by myself virtually. I'm looking forward to the next one although as you said, bitter sweet. We've lost a crewmen.
While Into Darkness is massive mess, the Kelvin Timeline is really fun and I wish we got more movies after Beyond. Seeing a direct crossover between the Kelvin and Prime timelines done so well in Discovery Season 3 really has me hopeful we'll get some more content.
Are we not at the point where less movement and Dutch angles would be refreshing? I don't think Abrams did anything very new with his cinematography. I would have appreciated if he'd homaged original trek with some restrained camera movement as they did with Rogue One.
I don't get the praise for the directing of these movies. At best, they're somewhat interesting, but at worse they're an unwatchable mess and the funky camera angles make the action difficult to follow.
@The Pink Tiara Dutch angles should only be used in very specific ways, not just to convey excitement. Also, "Dutch" angles are named after the Germans. "Dutch" is an American bastardization of Deutch.
To be fair, most all of the ST movies have had lens flare, it’s just that they only showed up when they should due to it being shot in anamorphic. I always thought they were really cool and cinematic, but the new stuff uses them way too much.
@@Xondar11223344 Which is kinda the point. To me, the "new" Trek movies are a major exercise in bamboozling the audience with a wild paced action saturation bombardment and spectacle, so that it cant think for a second about what is actually happening (and how it doesnt make much sense). Yeah, i like the visual style of the ship and bridge - that "apple-"clean look (i have actually dreamt of such a ST-bridge, before ST09 came out) - but that´s about it. Destroying vulcan was utter sacrilege to me. Sure, it´s entertaining, that action-barrage, i mean, but it´s not "Trek" to me. More like "Fast and the Furious", or whatever it´s called.
I came to this video ready for a fight! And... I come away mostly agreeing! The visual styles, the adventurous cinematography, the blend of established styles with some new spin, was fun! There are some choices (and some outright mistakes) that were made in the direction and writing that still kind of make me groan, but... it's still fun to rewatch these stories now and then.
I feel like the Kelvin movies suffer - somewhat unsurprisingly - from the same problems that plague Discovery. Pretty much everybody does a great job except the writing team. The Movies like the show look great and are for the most part well directed. Though I’d argue that Justin Lins vision is way ahead of Abrams’ kinda soulless action beats. Costumes, Production, Design, Casting and most of the performances are great. But the bottleneck is always the writing. The Kelvin Movies are three pretty boilerplate revenge stories with barely developed villains. Blowing up two planets in the first movie seemed to be just there for shock value and universe building is pretty much absent (aside from the Team, that does the production design) Though I do agree with you, that I’d love to see more of this version of the Trek Universe. I wouldn’t have thought so after the first two but Beyond showed, how well all of the parts work, if you put a director with some actual creativity at the helm and have a writing team that knows, how to write characters and dialogue. The story was kinda weak but way better than the first two and I believe the studio wouldn’t have lay them get away with anything too crazy.
I’m the only hardcore trekkie on the planet that strongly prefers Into Darkness to the other two. Every time I’m on the internet and I see people talking about that movie I feel like an absolute crazy person
Into Darkness is a guilty pleasure for me. What I do love about the films is the sound effects, there are some absolutely incredible ship sounds. What we could have done without was JJ's nostalgia frenzy.
I liked ID, but i think it suffered from a confused direction. As the guy says, they did all this stuff to create a believable alternative universe trek but then decided to shoehorn in fan service for no reason. Bit like the last Star Wars. Those directors were upset by the hate directed at TLJ from a minority of incel morons that couldn't handle a woman kicking arse and so went back to safety with fan service
I know i'm a minority here, but i love into darkness. The "messines" of the movie helps sell the confusionof the chrakters, how they are wy in over their heads. And the Whrath of khan reversal at the end is nit just a rehash, but a crushal charakter moment for spock, in my opinion. Overall, the kelvin timeline is, in my opinion, a really well done tribute to the original star trek, with the charakters bein gon point. It also is, again, in my opinion, what discovery should have been like.
I feel i need to add something: i know that srd draws heavily from these movies, but i mean i terms of the feeling. U never liked micheal as a charakter, she was basically the whole of the federation as a person, a bit too perfect, and then having her as what amounts to the main focus and lense we see the world and the ev3nts through, never really clicked with me. Granted, 2009 focuses more on follows kirk the spock, but over the whole of the movies, we always had more than one main viewpoint. I think this is something std is lacking.
You've definitely stated points here that I hadn't noticed. And I agree with you on the civilian clothing and field uniforms from Beyond. I liked Enterprise's uniforms because they were more like something astronauts would wear today with pockets and zippers. The civilian clothing and field uniforms in Beyond have the same atheistic. You can have all the fancy tunics and "self-sealing" clothing in a science fiction future you want, but a zipper will work as well in the twenty-third century as it works today. That aside, I agree with the scope and scale of the cinematic shots. While I do find the lenses flares a bit much, the rest of the sweeping visuals are stunning.
The plan was to have Spock kiss Uhura, Shatner kicked up a stink saying he was the star and so he got the scene instead. When I saw Spock kiss her in the Kelvin timeline it felt like justice had been done at last as Leonard Nimoy is the true star of Star Trek he was there from the beginning. Only one other person other than Leonard Nimoy has stared in StarTrek for as long and that was Majel Barrett. Yes before anyone points out the only reason they wanted Spock to kiss Uhura was that they thought it would be less controversial as he was an alien. The only reason Shatner kissed her wasn't to make a point about him not caring about kissing a black woman it was because he couldn't stand someone else getting the scene. Out of all the cast Shatner has had more bad blood between the cast than all the rest combined.
I remember being in the theater in 2009 and having geek anxiety about the timeline then the line "screw the timeline" from Kirk (?). I laughed so hard and did as suggested and just enjoyed what was before me. Thanks so much as I, too, enjoyed the fresh take and surprises. That moment when they did NOT save Vulcan and its drama within me: "they can't do that. they did that. but they can't! they did". I was a kid again! without expectations. It was wonderful. DISCO did some notable things like when they seeded that moon with spores and all this machinery probes launched to sporaform the moon; I think that scene brought home the sheer power of a starship like nothing previously. It wasn't just one magical genesis bomb, it was a fleet of probes the whole crew must have been working to put together. Somehow disbelief suspended and just a big woooowwww, amazzzzing. As good as when they killed off Yar in TNG (personally I was hoping Riker would get it next, that hope kept me going for the rest of the series, though I know others had their money on Wesley tragically dismembered). Either way it was still a break from the accepted 'rules' that no bridge officer dies and that made it cool.
Have to admit kelvin universe really did grow on me, although i am still a bit iffy about the Ent design, i do love the other fed ships. I do really wish we had more aliens we actually knew on the crews though. Where are all the Andorians and Tellerites, this production would have been a perfect opportunity to get more of them on screen in fed uniforms.
Just recently rewatched the Kelvin Timeline. Star Trek Beyond is pretty great, but I feel like it carries the baggage of the two extremely inferior previous movies and probably would have been even better if it was just not connected to them in a direct way.
It suffers from the previous films in that the emotional scene of the ships destruction is undercut by us having seen it all mut destroyed once already.
@@DrewLSsix I agree completely, yet another reason Beyond should have just not been connected to the previous movies. I ironically felt more seeing the Franklin take off into space because it's connected to the Scott Bakula Star Trek.
Dafuq even is the Kelvin timeline? The new shit where Vulcan was deleted, after which I was like "Nah, you know what, if you shit THAT hard on the material, I'm NOT gonna give you more money"?
@@dukkibhoy1990 Fair point. I'm all for a new approach. But just deleting an entire race, **especially** in such a gimmicky, plot-hole-y way, *that's* what made me instantly lose all respect for the writers/producers....
@@dukkibhoy1990 it's a problem when the "Fresh Take" is anything but. Abrams had a golden opportunity to do something different, yet all he did was tred old ground, even trying to emulate "The Wrath of Khan", which is a foolhardy endeavor for any director to begin with, especially with a director who likes his mystery boxes but has zero idea how to resolve them, as anyone who watched "Alias", "Lost" and "Rise of Skywalker" can attest. All projects with so much potential, yet wasted opportunities. Excellent cast, dialogue and a magnificent score. Shame about the plot.
What ever they do with the future movies. I really hope they keep each movie mostly self contained. I really enjoy the fact tha I can pick any of the Kelvin time movies with out needing to see the other movies to get an enjoyable movie. Like you need to do with the Marvel movies.
My biggest gripe with the Kelvin movies is they spend too much time throwing action at you. I want my Trek to 'breath'. I want more interesting plots that explore the characters and give them time to grow. I also want to explore the ships and worlds a bit more. I love looking at stuff and not having it blasted at me for only a few seconds before I have time to absorb the scenes. Shaky cam is also much overdone and gives me a headache. Nice slow pans and well setup static scenes > fast cuts and fast pans would go a long way towards keeping you grounded and keeping your attention. Not everything has to be constantly moving. Sometimes it's just too much and overloads my brain! Especially at 24 fps :P
All of your points are valid, but I don't think any of those things are the biggest problem, but they all contribute to the overall issue that causes these films to vary in quality. The biggest problem is JJ's "mystery boxes". It's a catch-all idea that is supposed to seem clever but comes off as a childish attempt at explaining things that don't need to be explained. "THE MYSTERY BOX OF WHY MCCOY AND EVERYONE ELSE CALLS HIM BONES IS FINALLY SOLVED!" is just one example of how modern Hollywood wants to hit us with these pointless "mysteries" that are just gimmicks. Why is Scotty sorta fat in later films? OMG find out in THIS MOVIE! What's Uhura's first name?? OMG find out in THIS MOVIE! Everything is treated as this huge mystery we HAVE to solve. Just let the audience fill in the gaps, guys. STOP treating Star Trek like we gotta push everybody into position by-force just so we don't freak out that the crew of the Enterprise isn't exactly like it was before, in previous movies. 99 percent of the problems in these films is trying to shoehorn people into place where the audience THINKS they are in the larger pop culture view of Star Trek. Kirk is a womanizer. Bones is grumpy. Scotty is obsessed with food. Uhura is sexy. Spock is a moody sex symbol. Nuclear WESSELS. JUST STOP. It's not a "mystery box", its a general misconception, or it's a stereotype, or its just simply something we do NOT care about enough to need a scene explaining it. Just tell a good story. Then we'll forgive you if you know very little about what actually makes these characters tick, instead of what you THINK the stereotypical view of these characters have become over the decades.
The kelvin time line was a very good idea, wipe the slate clean and take the characters in different directions. The Uhura and spock relationship stared out interesting then ended up as ed and Kelly from the orville trope in star trek into the darkness, Good review
The Kelvin timeline is fresh and exciting and what the brand needed, - that is until they destroyed the Enterprise. In spite of what the actors and the studio think, the Enterprise is the star, not the actors. I must have a bit of Scott in my blood because after seeing the trailer of the ship being torn up I refused to see "Beyond" until I could rent it. So for the most part, I really enjoyed the Kelvin timeline movies and would like to see more Kelvin movies made, just don't destroy the damn ship and don't let Rian Johnson near them.
"destroyed the Enterprise" almost became a requisite for every Star Trek movie even before the Kelvin timeline. It became so "meh, I wonder how they are going fail so bad they have to destroy the Enterprise again".
...On Engineering and the ship design, You could pick fault, but it does amuse how utterly incongruous the inside of the Enterprise is. You are watching thinking 'how does that all fit inside the Enterprise?' It's is good to see the more Industrial side of it, but it's bloody massive LMAO
I love them, I even love into darkness. I like that the look has evolved, it does feel more practical and less like a dentist's office. And the ships are awesome tbh. And they are just exiting! I like that they feel alive and like people actually exist!
Here’s mine. 1. Great vfx and camera work. 2. Great cast. 3. I like the villains(yes Kahn is shoehorn, but heck he’s awesome). 4. They are fun to watch. 5. They got me into Trek. 6. I can see a possible TNG version of the Kelvin Timeline. Now it doesn’t mean it will be good. But I like to see alternative versions of characters such as Picard, River, Data, Worf, etc. As much as I have problems with Kelvin films, it got me into the Trek and if it wasn’t for them. I will just view Trek as a forgotten joke of a franchise when I’m introduced to something like Mass Effect. So whatever happens I like to see more in that universe.
My one problem with the Kelvin Timeline movies is something that is in the first movie alot, and in the second even more, but is hardly in the third movie. There are moments in Star Trek '09 and Into Darkness where it feels like Kurtzman and Orci read the Star Trek Encyclopedia, found a bunch of really cool things to turn into references and then put them into the movies. Without understanding what made those things so great in the first place. When it came to lines spoken by McCoy and Scotty, both Karl Urban and Simon Pegg understood what those lines meant even if Kurtzman and Orci didn't when they wrote them. Kurtzman has had time to learn more about Star Trek since he's the guy in charge of the entire franchise now. At the time though it felt forced to have as many references to past Star Trek in the movies as there were coming from writers who didn't know Star Trek at the time.
Professor Farnsworth: Good Lord! That's over 5000 atmospheres of pressure! Fry: How many atmospheres can the ship withstand? Professor Farnsworth: Well, it was built for space travel, so anywhere between zero and one.
To my mind most of the things you describe as the good parts of the Kelvin timeline can be boiled down to (1) spending more money and (2) hiring a real director. I'm not a fan of JJ Abrams at all, but he definitely has a distinctive visual style and his movies look like moves (and not tv shows). And that's good for Star Trek. As far as the potential to do crazy stories, I'm just not convinced. Years ago Marvel created the Ultimate Marvel Universe, which was intended to reboot the Marvel Universe so as to not be constrained by so many years of continuity.. And yeah sure you could do anything in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, but the best comics weren't the ones that did anything, they were the ones that did what the original comic was known for just streamlined and with a clearer vision, e.g., Ultimate Spider Man. Some of the worse choices were comics that went so far afield such that the comic didn't read like it was about the original characters, e.g., Ultimate Avengers. Messing with the status quo is good, but a movie starring Kirk, Spock, and McCoy still has to feel like a Kirk, Spock, McCoy movie, and I think the best way to do that is probably to remix, remaster, and streamline classic stories for TOS or the movies.
These are actually the movies that got me into Star Trek in the first place. I saw Star Trek (2009) and found Spock's character really compelling, so I went looking for more about him and the story and well... here I am now watching this video and Star Trek is a very important part of my life. There are definitely things I don't like about these movies, and I found Beyond to be really disappointing in particular, but they will always have a special place in my heart as the stories that brought Star Trek to me.
Something also worth mentioning is when the ships move it feels like there is some real weight to them. Often in CG when things move they feel weightless, where as these really do feel like massive ships moving through space.
One big disappointment with Beyond is the total lack of explanation. Into Darkness happened because Vuclan was blown up so they found Kahn early. What happened to completely change the future in that case. Small I know but it bugged me
What would they have to explain? It was just a mission, the Enterprise was sent on. I believe it’s set some 10 or so years after the Kelvin Event, so the timelines are so different by then, that there should be barely any things that parallel Events from the canon universe, TOS is set in 🤷🏻♂️
The Kelvin timeline went from being the next new Hollywood blockbuster franchise to a trivia question overnight, I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a documentary about the rise and fall of the kelvin timeline.
I can't stand it when people complain that the Kelvin timeline "erased" the original universe. That's a serious complaint people STILL make, and it's just objectively wrong, it's literally established very clearly that Kelvin doesn't erase previous movies/shows. Some people are so hellbent of hating something that they'll literally selectively ignore things to self-validate their toxic fandom gatekeeping.
JJ.Abrams 2009 Star Trek was amazing, it was one of three reboots in quick succession that were all fantastic (Batman Begins and Casino Royale being the other two ) Star Trek looked amazing, had tons of energy, was exciting and perfectly cast, Giacchino did a brilliant score and the visual effects were mind blowing, I still watch it at least once a year and love every funny line, every heartfelt moment and every heroic deed. For me, it is one of the best movies of the last 20 years, and I will be very pleased if a 4th movie with this cast gets made.
After all this time, my brain goes into Meltdown whenever I see engineering sets for the Kelvin universe. They seem too open and hard to seal if there is a hull breach. Engineering is just so vulnerable.
I feel like the enterprise is generally too large, it feels more cold and less intimate. The bright lights, white walls, and lens flares don’t help much either. It doesn’t look like a place people are living together for years. That said, the planets look absolutely fantastic in their massive scale. I think the movie improved the things that needed to feel bigger but unnecessarily biggened the things that were better smaller
2:10 ah the famous Budweiser beer factory where they filmed the engineering scenes lol . Forget dilithium, the Enterprise is driven by liquor. Scotti would be proud!
While not agreeing with you on the Klingons, which I consider to be a Gentlemans Disagreement, I on the the whole concur with you on the rest of the Kelvinverse. My own headcanon on George Kirk, is that he was the First Officer on the USS Kelvin even in the Primeverse . I do think that Into Darkness is a rather interesting mixture of Space Seed and the Wrath of Khan . I hope that they do not kill of Chekhov, because I think that he should not be defined by neither Walter Koenig or the other now deceased actor whose name I forgot, but one that can take the best sides of both, and get the character going . Yes in Helsingland, on Kirk going up against the Borg !
Kirk: "I don't believe in no win situations." Spock: "Ok, I want you to convince RJC viewers that the Kelvin timeline isn't a dumpster fire." Kirk: ". . . . . . . . . . I quit."
I remember me and my friends and family talking in the car after seeing Star Trek 2009 in the cinema about how darned refreshing the movie was. Especially after Trek had gotten a bit stale with Nemesis, Voyager and Enterprise. “But”, I said: “as great as that was, I hope the next one has a bit more substance.” Unfortunately, Into Darkness got lost into carbon copying what came before, but in a dumb ‘this makes no sense for the characters’ kind of way. However, Beyond was a nice return to the core themes of Star Trek, even if the film as a whole felt a bit undercooked (I still like Beyond a lot). I too am curious where the Kelvin timeline will go next. It still has a lot of untapped potential.
I always loved the overall aesthetic of the Kelvin timeline. My ideal Star Trek would be some sort of merging of the visual and audio aspects of the Kelvin movies mixed with the writing and lore of the TNG era.
The Kelvin crew were perfectly cast but that's the only clear positive with no um's and ah's I can give those movies. Not that I hate them, but I just never liked the alternate timeline excuse. That said I would have loved it, seeming as they wanted to break everything, for them to have really broke things and then in say the 3rd movie, it flashed forward to PIcards era, and it was revealed all of time had been screwed up, and perhaps the only thing left of the Federation was an echo of Voyager, which still existed because of it's temporal shielding or something like that, and upon arriving home, later than they did, they were faced with going back in time to find Kirk and undo the damaged Nero had done. Paramount could have had it huge mindless action films followed by a big crossover film that also shut up fan boys by putting everything back in it's place. And then the cast could have wraped up with a Prime time line movie that was deliberately retro.
I want to see strange new worlds pay homage to the visual style of the original series without being beholden to their technical and budgetary limitations. Think how modern games like Shovel Knight homage 8bit aesthetics while actually doing more than a NES ever could. I can imagine way less cameras and camera movement, but with conscious effort made to fill the static frames with things that are interesting & valuable to see. I can imagine a sequence on the bridge where every bridge officer has very detailed blocking, where the set design is able to effectively communicate the purpose of every action they're taking on their console. In such a scene you could watch focusing on any given one of them and see a cohesive narrative play out, but have to rewind and rewatch focusing on a different character to fully appreciate each of these narratives. You'd be taking the money you save on a simple camera setup and reinvesting it into creating a more stage play like experience, which I think is very appropriate as an homage to the original series.
The biggest missed opportunity was not having Kirk and Spock get together! JJ had the perfect chance and it would’ve fulfilled a ship that existed since Trek’s beginning!
Mickey was an idiot in the begining with 9. But he came into his own by the end of 10s run. He manned up and him and Martha were fighting aliens on Earth.
The 2009 star trek movie was the only movie i had on my computer for a long time. I watched it a lot which got me into star trek were i eventualy realised DS9 is my favorite ( Ds9 came out 3 months before i was born so i never really got into star trek before all this.
The only thing I really like about the Kelvin Timeline is the warp effect. It makes sense that a starship would seem to gather itself for a few seconds, then the nacelles would flare and the ship would simply lunge forward faster than the eye could register, leaving behind a trail of exotic particles. And that 'thump' sound as it happened feels not like a sonic boom, but a cosmic boom.
I have to say, I absolutely love Zachary Quinto as a younger Spock, Leonard Nimoy is a legend and portrayed the character perfectly but I do really enjoy Zachary’s take on the character as it’s not too derivative of Nimoy’s portrayal while still obviously taking elements from that.
The Elephant in the room which you didn't look at is how they are going to write out Chekov and are they just going to recast him. Anton Yelchin is a hard act to follow. I enjoyed his role as Kyle Reese in Terminator Salvation.
Wow! I agree completely with pretty much all the things you said here. I actually really enjoyed these movies. As far as style goes, one thing I really like was the way warp speed looks. Just awesome.
I LOVE the design of the Kelvin Enterprise. It looks big and beefy and strong while still being super sleek. it radiates "power" more than any other enterprise.
I don't know why people hate the Kelvin Enterprise but for me it's the Enterprise that I've grown up with, It's the first Enterprise I saw on Screen and it Just look cool for me.
The very first images ever presented in any Star Trek property are a series of high-speed fly-by shots of the Enterprise, followed by a sweeping, moving shot that zooms toward the ship and tracks through the ceiling of the bridge and onto the faces of Captain Pike and his crew. The only reason they didn't use more dynamic camera work in earlier Trek is because they were constrained by money and the physics of camera technology and set design in a low-budget TV series format. It's not because they didn't want to.
Totally agree with how the warp core looks in this version, clearly inspired by the LHC and various real life tolamack fusion reactors. Having the ships assembled on the earth still looks a bit silly though.
I would be very interested in a next generation film in the kelvin timeline. Is starfleet as peaceful and exploration focused without a strong vulcan presence. Imagine Q with a bigger budget. But I would like to see a klingon focused TOS film first
Finally some praise for these movies! I have a million little fan-gripes about them but ultimately I think they’re a huge positive. As a Star Trek fan born in the early 2000s, it’s always been hard getting my friends into a franchise that started half a century ago. This movie made a huge difference, and is probably at least partially responsible for new Star Trek being made and it’s popularity on streaming services. I never understood why people were mad that things were different than in the main timeline. Better to deal with a few choices I don’t like then just watch the same shit over again. Star Trek fans can be a little too strict in terms of changing lore and tradition in my opinion. Just let people do what makes the best story, that’s what made it good in the first place. These movies could have done what ds9 did with the mirror universe (explore the ramifications of various choices to the universe) or what Doctor Who did with its 2005 revival (take all the parts old fans love and combine them with modern ideas and themes to refresh it and draw in young viewers). It’s a shame we won’t be seeing any more of it, I’d much rather have this than the new-new-Star Wars trilogy they’re undoubtedly planning
The Kelvin timeline is a Star Wars action movie with a Star Trek skin. All JJ knows how to do is steal elements already used and redress them. Using Khan again was a huge mistake. I remember Karl Urban joking about Gary Mitchall before Into Darkbess came out and that would have made more sense. Instead of rewriting Wrath of Khan when Kirk had no personal connection to this Khan. Kirk was only vengeful because he killed Pike.
Actually, that's a brilliant idea. Kirk vs. the Borg is always something that has done the rounds among Trek circles, but the Kelvin Timeline is a fantastic place to do it.
It’s a matter of personal taste, but I have to disagree with the point you made about direction in Trek 09 being superior to that of the previous three decades. While it cannot be argued that it has a more dynamic style and experiments far more with different angles and movements, this same presentation contradicts your next point that you like to ‘see the money spent on screen’ - as this same style introduces handheld shaky cam and abundant lens flares that literally obscure most of the frame (and JJ Abrahams himself eventually admitted there were too many in Trek ‘09). It’s not a problem which is limited to Trek ‘09 either - many other films have since used a similar approach, but the frenetic style also gets in the way of appreciating subtle or emotional moments. The same style also impairs the ability of composers to include longer and gentler themes. I couldn’t imagine Jerry Goldsmith’s ‘friendship’ theme from First Contact working as well in one of the later films, for example. For my taste, although the more traditional style might seem a bit stately in some situations, it also has an element of grandness and scale that is sometimes lost with more modern films. It’s also easier to track what’s happening on screen, it would be easier on those more susceptible to motion sickness, and enables opportunities to observe small details on repeat that may be missed on first viewing. Let me as the viewer have some agency in where I direct my attention, particularly when time, expertise and money has been lavished on sets and performances that are otherwise lost by mediocre direction that assumes I have no attention span at all.
@@RowanJColeman That’s fair, I may have been projecting a little there. It just feels like this style is becoming increasingly popular with modern films and I personally prefer the traditional approach a bit more - just personal taste. Thanks for the video, and looking forward to the next Retrospective!
To me the outstanding feature of the Kelvin timeline is the cast. We will never see as good a representation of the TOS crew as these people and it is a shame that it looks like we will not be seeing them together again. Oh, and Into Darkness is one of the best ST movies ever made - there, I said it! They made some really stupid mistakes, yes (interstellar beaming and overcoming death. yada, yada, yada), but overall it was entertaining and it had heart. It also had a great character arc for Kirk going from reckless and over-confident to realising he is out of his depth and being willing to die to save his ship and crew. By the end of the movie you could believe he was actually ready for a five year mission, whereas previously it was hard to believe he was even a Captain.
I loved the idea that 09, love it or hate it, created a "tabula rasa". I hated that that they immediately went backwards and tried to remake TWOK. If I were a money grubbing exec, I'd have remade Space Seed, which would have set a TWOK remake years later. Still, as an old school fan, I loved the Kelvin timeline. I had issues with it, but really enjoyed it. The reality is, there is a whole generation that loves this era. I look forward to the time when another reboot comes along, and another generation freaks out at the new new Star Trek. (Provided I live long enough to see it!)
I love the Kelvin timeline and all new stuff, TNG fans hate everything and are the most vocal haters of anything new. Im a Trek fan not just a TNG fan and anything like TNG fan. JJ saved Trek as TNG cast could not carry a movie franchsie and TNG was only good for the last 2 seasons, and it was good then. Enterprise also killed it on screen. Sorry TNG fans, stick to your DVDs as you pretty much wont own the Blu Rays as they are too new for you. Great vid
Some very fine points! I can't say that I love these films, but I certainly do enjoy them even for all their flaws. The one thing that did really bug me a lot, though, was not so much the relationship between Spock and Uhura...no, I can get behind that. No, what bothered me so much was, in the scene that introduces this....how Uhura /uses/ that relationship to FORCE a reassignment in the middle of a crisis deployment...and Spock LET HER DO THIS! THAT was the part that really soured me on the Kelvin Uhura and Spock. Absolute bang-up job from both actors, don't get me wrong, and I really, really like Quinto's Spock. But that scene really undercut a lot of respect that I should have had for these characters that needed (unnecessarily, I feel) to be rebuilt. Well, that and handing an ungodly massive promotion and assignment to a man who was, a few days prior, a cadet on the verge of expulsion from the academy. :) All that said, though, I still like these films a lot for what they tried to bring to the table - albeit unsuccessfully at times - and watch ST09 and STB numerous times. ^_^
My Favourite thing about the Kelvin Timeline? It introduced me to the awesomeness that is Karl Urban.
The opening shot of ST09 just sold me on the style and look of the Kelvin universe. Starting super close up on the hull of the USS Kelvin, slowly zooming out as the ship flies by, hearing the beeping noises on top of that. It was Trek as we hadn't seen since The Motion Picture, finally looking gloriously cinematic again.
One of the best things about the Kelvin timeline movies is the score. Michael Giacchino did a really, really good job with creating music that is specific to that trilogy. Not the best of the best of music in sci fi, but still quite great.
Honestly, that score and in particular “Enterprising Young Men” is something I can RAVE about for ages. It’s fantastic and I have no idea how Giacchino did such an amazing job.
The theme is so good. It gets stuck in my head.
Yeah it's incredible score...was only pontificating on that the other day!
And then he reused it for Dr. Strange.
Hot take the kelvin has a better motif than the motion picture
I live on the outskirts of São Paulo, Brazil, and I remember seeing three kids on the street practicing the Vulcan nerve pinch. This was just after Into the Darkness was released. Of course, I don't have how to be certain of that, but I believe that the Kelvin timeline movies brought Star Trek to the lives of that kids and this is so awesome. I know a lot of people don't appreciate theses movies but I love how a new audience discovered Star Trek with them.
I have a friend who, like me, is a die hard fan of star trek. He hates the Kelvin timeline... I keep telling him that the ways in which we view film has changed, and that a new generation needs Star Trek, and that this is a great way to bring them into the fold....
OG TOS fans tended to be divisive about TNG btw... things change... not for better or worse, always... but things change...
I'm glad star trek is back!
my favorite thing is still Karl Urban as Bones
I saw all 3 of them in theaters, in full uniform. Prior to that the last Trek film I'd seen in theaters was First Contact for my 10th birthday. It reinvigorated my love for Trek, so much so that prior to Beyond coming out(around 2015) I started a 50 year marathon to watch all of Trek that had came out up to that point. By September 8th of 2016, I was on Beyond(3rd time). Hell I even don't hate the 360 game released in between 09 and Into Darkness (despite being stuck in Gorn Engineering). I also love that without the KT films, no new Trek shows would be in production as 1, Kurtzman started by writing 09 with Bob Orcci. And 2(more importantly) It wouldn't have produced the groundswell to convince CBS to greenlight 6 SHOWS IN 4 YEARS
The survival jackets from Beyond are awesome. LMK if you ever find one :). Great video. I think it would be pretty cool to see 24th/25th century Kelvin timeline, actually having the budget to make some amazing looking future tech. Also, Yorktown was incredible.
The greatest thing about the Kelvin films is that it made get back into the Star Trek. Seeing Star Trek 09 made everything fresh and exciting to me, it made me want to find the TOS and TNG episodes I'd seen on repeat when I was a kid. In turn that led me to DS9 and the rest of the franchise.
The best part of the Kelvin timeline is that it failed.
The warp engine in into darkness was a experimental fusion reactor, an actual one from a lab, which they used as set
Well, that´s better than the brewery from 2009.
@@Nodux359 yes, centre de Pompidou style tubes and everything. Kind of looked ridiculous.
I definitely agree on all the points made in the video (especially that on Into Darkness) and these are things I also love about these films, and for me personally what I love about the Kelvin Timeline overall is how it got people who had never seen Star Trek into the franchise and created a new generation of fans, and getting people who would had never given the older shows or films a chance to now check them out because of the Kelvin films, as well as revitalise Star Trek in the main publics eye, without these films Star Trek could possibly have been forgotten, but is now going stronger than ever.
I'm not a huge fan of these films, I can enjoy 1 & 3, though not at the same level as the original films. I think creating the Kelvin timeline was the best way to handle this, they just dropped the execution of it here and there. That said, I'd like to see it continue and would certainly give a 4th movie a chance.
You cant say any of TNG movies are better than the Kelvin movies with the exception of First Contact. TOS movies were great though, JJ saved Trek though
@@whitleybayman123 Nope, you are correct there, the last two TNG were pretty bad, with Generations having more of a 2 part episode feel than a major film. As I said, I don't mind 1&3 of the Kelvin films, they had some weak points, but are decent, but I can't stand #2. I should point out when I said "original" I was talking TOS cast.
Fuck the Kelvin timeline. Seriously, it has just shit on the lore and destroyed the established Star Trek universe, just to cash in on TOS nostalgia. While I can put my disgust aside for the most part and enjoy them as movies, I loathe what they have done. What was wrong with continuing the story from DS9 and Voyager - pushing into the Delta quadrant or finding another wormhole to another quadrant? The "infinite scope" of story telling could have been had without shitting on everything that came before.
@@alaricgoldkuhl155 Destruction of Romulus aside (hate the idea, and fallout from it), creating the Kelvin universe was the best way to not ruin the lore set up by the Prime timeline, one reason a lot of folks took issue with Discovery, it's better suited for the Kelvin universe. As to continuing DS9 or Voyager ideas, I think those would be better suited for TV vs film, hell I'd even argue that TNG should never have made the jump, 1 good film, 1 mediocre film, and 2 awful ones.
@@darthphayde508 Yeah, I've a massive problem with Discovery too. Able to put my misgivings aside and enjoy it mostly, but everything I loved about Trek is in the toilet now. Had a problem with the time paradox crap in Enterprise as well. Redeemed in season 4 (best Trek season EVER imo before cancellation).
Such a massive universe with huge scope for new story telling. Why they gotta shit on previous Trek to do it is a mystery.
The sheer concept is great
An alternate timeline running in parallel to the OG timeline without erasing it
That’s great
My favourite thing is the music and the cast, the cast and their portrayal of the characters is great imo
I think Nicholas Meyer said it best. (From an interview he did with the official Star Trek site)
"I know what II (Wrath of Khan) is about. II is about friendship, old age and death.
I know what IV (The Voyage Home) is about. It’s about extinction. It’s about taking care, ecologically, of the only home that we have.
I understand what VI (The Undiscovered Country) is about. It’s about the collapse of the Soviet Union, and it’s about change and fear of change and “Have we reached the end of history?"....
I don't know what the ideas are in the new Star Trek movies. I understand that they’re rebooting them, but that’s a mechanical chore, that’s a technical chore. I don't understand what they’re about."
09 is about the inevitability of tragedy and how one reacts to it.
Into Darkness is about maturity and taking responsibility for one’s own actions.
Beyond is about losing one’s way and rediscovering purpose.
Can Nicholas Meyer not interpret something he didn’t write because I see the idea in all six films mentioned here and I worked on none of them. A very childish statement on his part.
I'm with you. I found the Kelvin timeline fascinating and I loved all the movies. For each one, I bought a ticket to an arclight theater on a Sunday morning, first showing, and watched the movie by myself virtually. I'm looking forward to the next one although as you said, bitter sweet. We've lost a crewmen.
While Into Darkness is massive mess, the Kelvin Timeline is really fun and I wish we got more movies after Beyond. Seeing a direct crossover between the Kelvin and Prime timelines done so well in Discovery Season 3 really has me hopeful we'll get some more content.
No, just no. No bad robot, please.
@@volodymyrbilyk555 okay
@@volodymyrbilyk555 but what if yes?
Yes please🤗🖖
STD? No more STD please.
Are we not at the point where less movement and Dutch angles would be refreshing? I don't think Abrams did anything very new with his cinematography. I would have appreciated if he'd homaged original trek with some restrained camera movement as they did with Rogue One.
I don't get the praise for the directing of these movies. At best, they're somewhat interesting, but at worse they're an unwatchable mess and the funky camera angles make the action difficult to follow.
I am also fed up with lens flare, to me JJ is a tad overrated and his bad robot company is ruining franchises, I wish he will go away.
@The Pink Tiara Dutch angles should only be used in very specific ways, not just to convey excitement.
Also, "Dutch" angles are named after the Germans. "Dutch" is an American bastardization of Deutch.
To be fair, most all of the ST movies have had lens flare, it’s just that they only showed up when they should due to it being shot in anamorphic. I always thought they were really cool and cinematic, but the new stuff uses them way too much.
@@Xondar11223344 Which is kinda the point. To me, the "new" Trek movies are a major exercise in bamboozling the audience with a wild paced action saturation bombardment and spectacle, so that it cant think for a second about what is actually happening (and how it doesnt make much sense). Yeah, i like the visual style of the ship and bridge - that "apple-"clean look (i have actually dreamt of such a ST-bridge, before ST09 came out) - but that´s about it. Destroying vulcan was utter sacrilege to me.
Sure, it´s entertaining, that action-barrage, i mean, but it´s not "Trek" to me. More like "Fast and the Furious", or whatever it´s called.
I came to this video ready for a fight! And... I come away mostly agreeing! The visual styles, the adventurous cinematography, the blend of established styles with some new spin, was fun! There are some choices (and some outright mistakes) that were made in the direction and writing that still kind of make me groan, but... it's still fun to rewatch these stories now and then.
The online game Star Trek Fleet Command is kinda set in the Kelvin Timeline.
I feel like the Kelvin movies suffer - somewhat unsurprisingly - from the same problems that plague Discovery. Pretty much everybody does a great job except the writing team.
The Movies like the show look great and are for the most part well directed. Though I’d argue that Justin Lins vision is way ahead of Abrams’ kinda soulless action beats. Costumes, Production, Design, Casting and most of the performances are great. But the bottleneck is always the writing.
The Kelvin Movies are three pretty boilerplate revenge stories with barely developed villains. Blowing up two planets in the first movie seemed to be just there for shock value and universe building is pretty much absent (aside from the Team, that does the production design)
Though I do agree with you, that I’d love to see more of this version of the Trek Universe. I wouldn’t have thought so after the first two but Beyond showed, how well all of the parts work, if you put a director with some actual creativity at the helm and have a writing team that knows, how to write characters and dialogue. The story was kinda weak but way better than the first two and I believe the studio wouldn’t have lay them get away with anything too crazy.
I’m the only hardcore trekkie on the planet that strongly prefers Into Darkness to the other two. Every time I’m on the internet and I see people talking about that movie I feel like an absolute crazy person
Nah, your just an individual. There's a lot of movies I love that people just don't get.
I like all of them
I really liked Into Darkness but Beyond is the better film. Sorry 😅
Into Darkness is a guilty pleasure for me.
What I do love about the films is the sound effects, there are some absolutely incredible ship sounds.
What we could have done without was JJ's nostalgia frenzy.
I liked ID, but i think it suffered from a confused direction. As the guy says, they did all this stuff to create a believable alternative universe trek but then decided to shoehorn in fan service for no reason. Bit like the last Star Wars. Those directors were upset by the hate directed at TLJ from a minority of incel morons that couldn't handle a woman kicking arse and so went back to safety with fan service
I know i'm a minority here, but i love into darkness. The "messines" of the movie helps sell the confusionof the chrakters, how they are wy in over their heads. And the Whrath of khan reversal at the end is nit just a rehash, but a crushal charakter moment for spock, in my opinion.
Overall, the kelvin timeline is, in my opinion, a really well done tribute to the original star trek, with the charakters bein gon point. It also is, again, in my opinion, what discovery should have been like.
I feel i need to add something: i know that srd draws heavily from these movies, but i mean i terms of the feeling. U never liked micheal as a charakter, she was basically the whole of the federation as a person, a bit too perfect, and then having her as what amounts to the main focus and lense we see the world and the ev3nts through, never really clicked with me. Granted, 2009 focuses more on follows kirk the spock, but over the whole of the movies, we always had more than one main viewpoint. I think this is something std is lacking.
You've definitely stated points here that I hadn't noticed. And I agree with you on the civilian clothing and field uniforms from Beyond. I liked Enterprise's uniforms because they were more like something astronauts would wear today with pockets and zippers. The civilian clothing and field uniforms in Beyond have the same atheistic. You can have all the fancy tunics and "self-sealing" clothing in a science fiction future you want, but a zipper will work as well in the twenty-third century as it works today. That aside, I agree with the scope and scale of the cinematic shots. While I do find the lenses flares a bit much, the rest of the sweeping visuals are stunning.
The plan was to have Spock kiss Uhura, Shatner kicked up a stink saying he was the star and so he got the scene instead.
When I saw Spock kiss her in the Kelvin timeline it felt like justice had been done at last as Leonard Nimoy is the true star of Star Trek he was there from the beginning.
Only one other person other than Leonard Nimoy has stared in StarTrek for as long and that was Majel Barrett.
Yes before anyone points out the only reason they wanted Spock to kiss Uhura was that they thought it would be less controversial as he was an alien.
The only reason Shatner kissed her wasn't to make a point about him not caring about kissing a black woman it was because he couldn't stand someone else getting the scene.
Out of all the cast Shatner has had more bad blood between the cast than all the rest combined.
I remember being in the theater in 2009 and having geek anxiety about the timeline then the line "screw the timeline" from Kirk (?). I laughed so hard and did as suggested and just enjoyed what was before me. Thanks so much as I, too, enjoyed the fresh take and surprises. That moment when they did NOT save Vulcan and its drama within me: "they can't do that. they did that. but they can't! they did". I was a kid again! without expectations. It was wonderful.
DISCO did some notable things like when they seeded that moon with spores and all this machinery probes launched to sporaform the moon; I think that scene brought home the sheer power of a starship like nothing previously. It wasn't just one magical genesis bomb, it was a fleet of probes the whole crew must have been working to put together. Somehow disbelief suspended and just a big woooowwww, amazzzzing. As good as when they killed off Yar in TNG (personally I was hoping Riker would get it next, that hope kept me going for the rest of the series, though I know others had their money on Wesley tragically dismembered). Either way it was still a break from the accepted 'rules' that no bridge officer dies and that made it cool.
Have to admit kelvin universe really did grow on me, although i am still a bit iffy about the Ent design, i do love the other fed ships. I do really wish we had more aliens we actually knew on the crews though. Where are all the Andorians and Tellerites, this production would have been a perfect opportunity to get more of them on screen in fed uniforms.
I agree I was very disappointed that the andorians weren’t featured
Just recently rewatched the Kelvin Timeline. Star Trek Beyond is pretty great, but I feel like it carries the baggage of the two extremely inferior previous movies and probably would have been even better if it was just not connected to them in a direct way.
It suffers from the previous films in that the emotional scene of the ships destruction is undercut by us having seen it all mut destroyed once already.
@@DrewLSsix I agree completely, yet another reason Beyond should have just not been connected to the previous movies. I ironically felt more seeing the Franklin take off into space because it's connected to the Scott Bakula Star Trek.
Dafuq even is the Kelvin timeline?
The new shit where Vulcan was deleted, after which I was like "Nah, you know what, if you shit THAT hard on the material, I'm NOT gonna give you more money"?
Why does it have to stick to the material why cant we see a fresh take on the universe seeing what others would do with it?
@@dukkibhoy1990
Fair point.
I'm all for a new approach.
But just deleting an entire race, **especially** in such a gimmicky, plot-hole-y way, *that's* what made me instantly lose all respect for the writers/producers....
@@dukkibhoy1990 it's a problem when the "Fresh Take" is anything but.
Abrams had a golden opportunity to do something different, yet all he did was tred old ground, even trying to emulate "The Wrath of Khan", which is a foolhardy endeavor for any director to begin with, especially with a director who likes his mystery boxes but has zero idea how to resolve them, as anyone who watched "Alias", "Lost" and "Rise of Skywalker" can attest. All projects with so much potential, yet wasted opportunities.
Excellent cast, dialogue and a magnificent score. Shame about the plot.
What ever they do with the future movies. I really hope they keep each movie mostly self contained. I really enjoy the fact tha I can pick any of the Kelvin time movies with out needing to see the other movies to get an enjoyable movie. Like you need to do with the Marvel movies.
My biggest gripe with the Kelvin movies is they spend too much time throwing action at you. I want my Trek to 'breath'. I want more interesting plots that explore the characters and give them time to grow. I also want to explore the ships and worlds a bit more. I love looking at stuff and not having it blasted at me for only a few seconds before I have time to absorb the scenes. Shaky cam is also much overdone and gives me a headache. Nice slow pans and well setup static scenes > fast cuts and fast pans would go a long way towards keeping you grounded and keeping your attention. Not everything has to be constantly moving. Sometimes it's just too much and overloads my brain! Especially at 24 fps :P
All of your points are valid, but I don't think any of those things are the biggest problem, but they all contribute to the overall issue that causes these films to vary in quality.
The biggest problem is JJ's "mystery boxes". It's a catch-all idea that is supposed to seem clever but comes off as a childish attempt at explaining things that don't need to be explained. "THE MYSTERY BOX OF WHY MCCOY AND EVERYONE ELSE CALLS HIM BONES IS FINALLY SOLVED!" is just one example of how modern Hollywood wants to hit us with these pointless "mysteries" that are just gimmicks. Why is Scotty sorta fat in later films? OMG find out in THIS MOVIE! What's Uhura's first name?? OMG find out in THIS MOVIE!
Everything is treated as this huge mystery we HAVE to solve. Just let the audience fill in the gaps, guys. STOP treating Star Trek like we gotta push everybody into position by-force just so we don't freak out that the crew of the Enterprise isn't exactly like it was before, in previous movies.
99 percent of the problems in these films is trying to shoehorn people into place where the audience THINKS they are in the larger pop culture view of Star Trek.
Kirk is a womanizer. Bones is grumpy. Scotty is obsessed with food. Uhura is sexy. Spock is a moody sex symbol.
Nuclear WESSELS.
JUST STOP. It's not a "mystery box", its a general misconception, or it's a stereotype, or its just simply something we do NOT care about enough to need a scene explaining it.
Just tell a good story. Then we'll forgive you if you know very little about what actually makes these characters tick, instead of what you THINK the stereotypical view of these characters have become over the decades.
The kelvin time line was a very good idea, wipe the slate clean and take the characters in different directions. The Uhura and spock relationship stared out interesting then ended up as ed and Kelly from the orville trope in star trek into the darkness, Good review
Love your positivity, man!
Rowan: ”I like this timeline, it's exciting!”
The Kelvin timeline is fresh and exciting and what the brand needed, - that is until they destroyed the Enterprise. In spite of what the actors and the studio think, the Enterprise is the star, not the actors. I must have a bit of Scott in my blood because after seeing the trailer of the ship being torn up I refused to see "Beyond" until I could rent it. So for the most part, I really enjoyed the Kelvin timeline movies and would like to see more Kelvin movies made, just don't destroy the damn ship and don't let Rian Johnson near them.
"destroyed the Enterprise" almost became a requisite for every Star Trek movie even before the Kelvin timeline. It became so "meh, I wonder how they are going fail so bad they have to destroy the Enterprise again".
...On Engineering and the ship design, You could pick fault, but it does amuse how utterly incongruous the inside of the Enterprise is. You are watching thinking 'how does that all fit inside the Enterprise?' It's is good to see the more Industrial side of it, but it's bloody massive LMAO
Nice to have a positive review of the Kelvin timeline! Although I really enjoyed Into Darkness... 🖖
I really like your assessment. I’ve learned so much new details thanks to your video!
I love them, I even love into darkness. I like that the look has evolved, it does feel more practical and less like a dentist's office. And the ships are awesome tbh. And they are just exiting! I like that they feel alive and like people actually exist!
Here’s mine.
1. Great vfx and camera work.
2. Great cast.
3. I like the villains(yes Kahn is shoehorn, but heck he’s awesome).
4. They are fun to watch.
5. They got me into Trek.
6. I can see a possible TNG version of the Kelvin Timeline. Now it doesn’t mean it will be good. But I like to see alternative versions of characters such as Picard, River, Data, Worf, etc.
As much as I have problems with Kelvin films, it got me into the Trek and if it wasn’t for them. I will just view Trek as a
forgotten joke of a franchise when I’m introduced to something like Mass Effect. So whatever happens I like to see more in that universe.
My one problem with the Kelvin Timeline movies is something that is in the first movie alot, and in the second even more, but is hardly in the third movie. There are moments in Star Trek '09 and Into Darkness where it feels like Kurtzman and Orci read the Star Trek Encyclopedia, found a bunch of really cool things to turn into references and then put them into the movies. Without understanding what made those things so great in the first place. When it came to lines spoken by McCoy and Scotty, both Karl Urban and Simon Pegg understood what those lines meant even if Kurtzman and Orci didn't when they wrote them. Kurtzman has had time to learn more about Star Trek since he's the guy in charge of the entire franchise now. At the time though it felt forced to have as many references to past Star Trek in the movies as there were coming from writers who didn't know Star Trek at the time.
I love the Kelvin timeline. It's been the best of the new stuff that's come out.
Into Darkness not only shat the bed. It shat the bed harder than Amber Heard.
Everything about kevlin is awesome. My favorite thing is how much it upsets the fans of crappy trek
edgelord
Ah the Kelvin Timeline. AKA, the Lens Flare timeline.
Great video. I love seeing positive things expressed about the "Kelvin" movies.
I love the kelvin timeline soo good 😎😎
The only thing I hated about Into Darkness was the Enterprise being underwater in the beginning that still bothers me
Professor Farnsworth: Good Lord! That's over 5000 atmospheres of pressure!
Fry: How many atmospheres can the ship withstand?
Professor Farnsworth: Well, it was built for space travel, so anywhere between zero and one.
It's okay, they redirected the shields and boosted the ship's integrity field to compensate for the pressure. Or something... 👍
...why exactly? You think it would take in water or something?
@@RabbitShirak Because the sea has incredibly huge amounts of pressure and spaceships are designed for a place that has absolutely no pressure.
To my mind most of the things you describe as the good parts of the Kelvin timeline can be boiled down to (1) spending more money and (2) hiring a real director. I'm not a fan of JJ Abrams at all, but he definitely has a distinctive visual style and his movies look like moves (and not tv shows). And that's good for Star Trek.
As far as the potential to do crazy stories, I'm just not convinced. Years ago Marvel created the Ultimate Marvel Universe, which was intended to reboot the Marvel Universe so as to not be constrained by so many years of continuity.. And yeah sure you could do anything in the Ultimate Marvel Universe, but the best comics weren't the ones that did anything, they were the ones that did what the original comic was known for just streamlined and with a clearer vision, e.g., Ultimate Spider Man. Some of the worse choices were comics that went so far afield such that the comic didn't read like it was about the original characters, e.g., Ultimate Avengers.
Messing with the status quo is good, but a movie starring Kirk, Spock, and McCoy still has to feel like a Kirk, Spock, McCoy movie, and I think the best way to do that is probably to remix, remaster, and streamline classic stories for TOS or the movies.
the greatest thing is the music
These are actually the movies that got me into Star Trek in the first place. I saw Star Trek (2009) and found Spock's character really compelling, so I went looking for more about him and the story and well... here I am now watching this video and Star Trek is a very important part of my life. There are definitely things I don't like about these movies, and I found Beyond to be really disappointing in particular, but they will always have a special place in my heart as the stories that brought Star Trek to me.
I love the Kelvin timeline! Please make more videos regarding Kelvin timeline.
Something also worth mentioning is when the ships move it feels like there is some real weight to them. Often in CG when things move they feel weightless, where as these really do feel like massive ships moving through space.
One big disappointment with Beyond is the total lack of explanation. Into Darkness happened because Vuclan was blown up so they found Kahn early. What happened to completely change the future in that case. Small I know but it bugged me
A lot has to do with the writers for Beyond, removing Darkness from the canon.
No cure-all blood, no teleporting across the Quadrant, etcetera.
@@hansakkerman2611 still doesn't explain how The Enterprise was destroyed in this timeline but not the OG timeline
@@kevinedie4119 supposedly, the studio rejected Simon Pegg's first draft as "too Star Trek-y"
What would they have to explain? It was just a mission, the Enterprise was sent on. I believe it’s set some 10 or so years after the Kelvin Event, so the timelines are so different by then, that there should be barely any things that parallel Events from the canon universe, TOS is set in 🤷🏻♂️
Can’t believe in 2 weeks Star Trek will be turning 55 years old!?!?!?
you do make interesting points
The Kelvin timeline went from being the next new Hollywood blockbuster franchise to a trivia question overnight, I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a documentary about the rise and fall of the kelvin timeline.
We’re glad this is not the same universe.
i want the tarantino one next
You had to read a comic to see Kelvin Kirk meet Q.
I can't stand it when people complain that the Kelvin timeline "erased" the original universe. That's a serious complaint people STILL make, and it's just objectively wrong, it's literally established very clearly that Kelvin doesn't erase previous movies/shows. Some people are so hellbent of hating something that they'll literally selectively ignore things to self-validate their toxic fandom gatekeeping.
Wonderful video. I concur with pretty much everything you said.
0:01 - okay, i'm skeptical, keep talking
Well, I wasn't convinced, you?
JJ.Abrams 2009 Star Trek was amazing, it was one of three reboots in quick succession that were all fantastic (Batman Begins and Casino Royale being the other two )
Star Trek looked amazing, had tons of energy, was exciting and perfectly cast, Giacchino did a brilliant score and the visual effects were mind blowing, I still watch it at least once a year and love every funny line, every heartfelt moment and every heroic deed. For me, it is one of the best movies of the last 20 years, and I will be very pleased if a 4th movie with this cast gets made.
After all this time, my brain goes into Meltdown whenever I see engineering sets for the Kelvin universe. They seem too open and hard to seal if there is a hull breach. Engineering is just so vulnerable.
I feel like the enterprise is generally too large, it feels more cold and less intimate. The bright lights, white walls, and lens flares don’t help much either. It doesn’t look like a place people are living together for years. That said, the planets look absolutely fantastic in their massive scale. I think the movie improved the things that needed to feel bigger but unnecessarily biggened the things that were better smaller
2:10 ah the famous Budweiser beer factory where they filmed the engineering scenes lol . Forget dilithium, the Enterprise is driven by liquor. Scotti would be proud!
While not agreeing with you on
the Klingons, which I consider to
be a Gentlemans Disagreement, I
on the the whole concur with you
on the rest of the Kelvinverse. My
own headcanon on George Kirk, is
that he was the First Officer on the
USS Kelvin even in the Primeverse .
I do think that Into Darkness is a rather
interesting mixture of Space Seed and
the Wrath of Khan .
I hope that they do not kill of Chekhov,
because I think that he should not be defined by neither
Walter Koenig or the other now deceased actor
whose name I forgot, but one that can take the
best sides of both, and get the character going .
Yes in Helsingland, on Kirk going up against the Borg !
Also the casting and energy level are top notch.
Pretty good summary and mirrors how I feel about the Kelvin timeline. I would also add the music is great too.
Kirk: "I don't believe in no win situations."
Spock: "Ok, I want you to convince RJC viewers that the Kelvin timeline isn't a dumpster fire."
Kirk: ". . . . . . . . . . I quit."
I remember me and my friends and family talking in the car after seeing Star Trek 2009 in the cinema about how darned refreshing the movie was. Especially after Trek had gotten a bit stale with Nemesis, Voyager and Enterprise. “But”, I said: “as great as that was, I hope the next one has a bit more substance.”
Unfortunately, Into Darkness got lost into carbon copying what came before, but in a dumb ‘this makes no sense for the characters’ kind of way. However, Beyond was a nice return to the core themes of Star Trek, even if the film as a whole felt a bit undercooked (I still like Beyond a lot).
I too am curious where the Kelvin timeline will go next. It still has a lot of untapped potential.
I always loved the overall aesthetic of the Kelvin timeline. My ideal Star Trek would be some sort of merging of the visual and audio aspects of the Kelvin movies mixed with the writing and lore of the TNG era.
I will always fight for Kelvin timeline superiority just for the fact that they have seatbelts. Prime timeline could never.
If the two enterprises ever fought, the original series crew would be slowly taken out via repeated head injury. Now there’s a movie I’d see
Right?!
The Kelvin crew were perfectly cast but that's the only clear positive with no um's and ah's I can give those movies. Not that I hate them, but I just never liked the alternate timeline excuse. That said I would have loved it, seeming as they wanted to break everything, for them to have really broke things and then in say the 3rd movie, it flashed forward to PIcards era, and it was revealed all of time had been screwed up, and perhaps the only thing left of the Federation was an echo of Voyager, which still existed because of it's temporal shielding or something like that, and upon arriving home, later than they did, they were faced with going back in time to find Kirk and undo the damaged Nero had done. Paramount could have had it huge mindless action films followed by a big crossover film that also shut up fan boys by putting everything back in it's place. And then the cast could have wraped up with a Prime time line movie that was deliberately retro.
I want to see strange new worlds pay homage to the visual style of the original series without being beholden to their technical and budgetary limitations. Think how modern games like Shovel Knight homage 8bit aesthetics while actually doing more than a NES ever could.
I can imagine way less cameras and camera movement, but with conscious effort made to fill the static frames with things that are interesting & valuable to see. I can imagine a sequence on the bridge where every bridge officer has very detailed blocking, where the set design is able to effectively communicate the purpose of every action they're taking on their console. In such a scene you could watch focusing on any given one of them and see a cohesive narrative play out, but have to rewind and rewatch focusing on a different character to fully appreciate each of these narratives. You'd be taking the money you save on a simple camera setup and reinvesting it into creating a more stage play like experience, which I think is very appropriate as an homage to the original series.
It's nice that the Prime Timeline is aware of the Kelvin timeline at least in 31st Century Starfleet.
The biggest missed opportunity was not having Kirk and Spock get together! JJ had the perfect chance and it would’ve fulfilled a ship that existed since Trek’s beginning!
1. That Micky guy from doctor who dies in less than 1 minute
10/10
Mickey was an idiot in the begining with 9. But he came into his own by the end of 10s run. He manned up and him and Martha were fighting aliens on Earth.
@@SchardtCinematic … yeah, but I believe the actor is cancelled so we’re not really allowed to like his work anymore 😁
@@p5ych0p4th I still like his work. Just like Gina Corano's work in the Mandolorian.
@@SchardtCinematic I believe, she’s uncancelled. So that’s good 😁
The 2009 star trek movie was the only movie i had on my computer for a long time. I watched it a lot which got me into star trek were i eventualy realised DS9 is my favorite ( Ds9 came out 3 months before i was born so i never really got into star trek before all this.
The only thing I really like about the Kelvin Timeline is the warp effect. It makes sense that a starship would seem to gather itself for a few seconds, then the nacelles would flare and the ship would simply lunge forward faster than the eye could register, leaving behind a trail of exotic particles. And that 'thump' sound as it happened feels not like a sonic boom, but a cosmic boom.
I have to say, I absolutely love Zachary Quinto as a younger Spock, Leonard Nimoy is a legend and portrayed the character perfectly but I do really enjoy Zachary’s take on the character as it’s not too derivative of Nimoy’s portrayal while still obviously taking elements from that.
The Elephant in the room which you didn't look at is how they are going to write out Chekov and are they just going to recast him. Anton Yelchin is a hard act to follow. I enjoyed his role as Kyle Reese in Terminator Salvation.
Wow! I agree completely with pretty much all the things you said here. I actually really enjoyed these movies. As far as style goes, one thing I really like was the way warp speed looks. Just awesome.
I LOVE the design of the Kelvin Enterprise. It looks big and beefy and strong while still being super sleek. it radiates "power" more than any other enterprise.
I don't know why people hate the Kelvin Enterprise but for me it's the Enterprise that I've grown up with, It's the first Enterprise I saw on Screen and it Just look cool for me.
The very first images ever presented in any Star Trek property are a series of high-speed fly-by shots of the Enterprise, followed by a sweeping, moving shot that zooms toward the ship and tracks through the ceiling of the bridge and onto the faces of Captain Pike and his crew. The only reason they didn't use more dynamic camera work in earlier Trek is because they were constrained by money and the physics of camera technology and set design in a low-budget TV series format. It's not because they didn't want to.
“The best thing about alternative timelines is we can milk our franchise forever” said every paramount and cbs executive!
Totally agree with how the warp core looks in this version, clearly inspired by the LHC and various real life tolamack fusion reactors. Having the ships assembled on the earth still looks a bit silly though.
I would be very interested in a next generation film in the kelvin timeline. Is starfleet as peaceful and exploration focused without a strong vulcan presence. Imagine Q with a bigger budget. But I would like to see a klingon focused TOS film first
Finally some praise for these movies! I have a million little fan-gripes about them but ultimately I think they’re a huge positive. As a Star Trek fan born in the early 2000s, it’s always been hard getting my friends into a franchise that started half a century ago. This movie made a huge difference, and is probably at least partially responsible for new Star Trek being made and it’s popularity on streaming services. I never understood why people were mad that things were different than in the main timeline. Better to deal with a few choices I don’t like then just watch the same shit over again. Star Trek fans can be a little too strict in terms of changing lore and tradition in my opinion. Just let people do what makes the best story, that’s what made it good in the first place. These movies could have done what ds9 did with the mirror universe (explore the ramifications of various choices to the universe) or what Doctor Who did with its 2005 revival (take all the parts old fans love and combine them with modern ideas and themes to refresh it and draw in young viewers). It’s a shame we won’t be seeing any more of it, I’d much rather have this than the new-new-Star Wars trilogy they’re undoubtedly planning
The Kelvin timeline is a Star Wars action movie with a Star Trek skin. All JJ knows how to do is steal elements already used and redress them. Using Khan again
was a huge mistake. I remember Karl Urban joking about Gary Mitchall before Into Darkbess came out and that would have made more sense. Instead of rewriting Wrath of Khan when Kirk had no personal connection to this Khan. Kirk was only vengeful because he killed Pike.
Actually, that's a brilliant idea. Kirk vs. the Borg is always something that has done the rounds among Trek circles, but the Kelvin Timeline is a fantastic place to do it.
It’s a matter of personal taste, but I have to disagree with the point you made about direction in Trek 09 being superior to that of the previous three decades. While it cannot be argued that it has a more dynamic style and experiments far more with different angles and movements, this same presentation contradicts your next point that you like to ‘see the money spent on screen’ - as this same style introduces handheld shaky cam and abundant lens flares that literally obscure most of the frame (and JJ Abrahams himself eventually admitted there were too many in Trek ‘09).
It’s not a problem which is limited to Trek ‘09 either - many other films have since used a similar approach, but the frenetic style also gets in the way of appreciating subtle or emotional moments. The same style also impairs the ability of composers to include longer and gentler themes. I couldn’t imagine Jerry Goldsmith’s ‘friendship’ theme from First Contact working as well in one of the later films, for example.
For my taste, although the more traditional style might seem a bit stately in some situations, it also has an element of grandness and scale that is sometimes lost with more modern films. It’s also easier to track what’s happening on screen, it would be easier on those more susceptible to motion sickness, and enables opportunities to observe small details on repeat that may be missed on first viewing. Let me as the viewer have some agency in where I direct my attention, particularly when time, expertise and money has been lavished on sets and performances that are otherwise lost by mediocre direction that assumes I have no attention span at all.
I didn't say the direction was superior, just a refreshing change of pace.
@@RowanJColeman That’s fair, I may have been projecting a little there. It just feels like this style is becoming increasingly popular with modern films and I personally prefer the traditional approach a bit more - just personal taste.
Thanks for the video, and looking forward to the next Retrospective!
@@HarkovsFolly I also prefer the traditional style. I like to see what I'm actually seeing, on the screen.
To me the outstanding feature of the Kelvin timeline is the cast. We will never see as good a representation of the TOS crew as these people and it is a shame that it looks like we will not be seeing them together again.
Oh, and Into Darkness is one of the best ST movies ever made - there, I said it! They made some really stupid mistakes, yes (interstellar beaming and overcoming death. yada, yada, yada), but overall it was entertaining and it had heart. It also had a great character arc for Kirk going from reckless and over-confident to realising he is out of his depth and being willing to die to save his ship and crew. By the end of the movie you could believe he was actually ready for a five year mission, whereas previously it was hard to believe he was even a Captain.
I loved the idea that 09, love it or hate it, created a "tabula rasa". I hated that that they immediately went backwards and tried to remake TWOK. If I were a money grubbing exec, I'd have remade Space Seed, which would have set a TWOK remake years later.
Still, as an old school fan, I loved the Kelvin timeline. I had issues with it, but really enjoyed it.
The reality is, there is a whole generation that loves this era. I look forward to the time when another reboot comes along, and another generation freaks out at the new new Star Trek. (Provided I live long enough to see it!)
I love the Kelvin timeline and all new stuff, TNG fans hate everything and are the most vocal haters of anything new. Im a Trek fan not just a TNG fan and anything like TNG fan. JJ saved Trek as TNG cast could not carry a movie franchsie and TNG was only good for the last 2 seasons, and it was good then. Enterprise also killed it on screen. Sorry TNG fans, stick to your DVDs as you pretty much wont own the Blu Rays as they are too new for you. Great vid
I liked that I could go to the movies with my none tekkie friends, without having them leave in boredom.
Kelvin 1 was pretty good, 3 I couldn’t finish despite multiple tries. Basically makes rewatching TNG, DS9, etc really good.
Some very fine points! I can't say that I love these films, but I certainly do enjoy them even for all their flaws. The one thing that did really bug me a lot, though, was not so much the relationship between Spock and Uhura...no, I can get behind that. No, what bothered me so much was, in the scene that introduces this....how Uhura /uses/ that relationship to FORCE a reassignment in the middle of a crisis deployment...and Spock LET HER DO THIS! THAT was the part that really soured me on the Kelvin Uhura and Spock. Absolute bang-up job from both actors, don't get me wrong, and I really, really like Quinto's Spock. But that scene really undercut a lot of respect that I should have had for these characters that needed (unnecessarily, I feel) to be rebuilt. Well, that and handing an ungodly massive promotion and assignment to a man who was, a few days prior, a cadet on the verge of expulsion from the academy. :)
All that said, though, I still like these films a lot for what they tried to bring to the table - albeit unsuccessfully at times - and watch ST09 and STB numerous times. ^_^
Kelvin timeline is Logan's Run in space. You don't see any old people apart from stunt casting.