Don't beat yourself up, your work here not only has expanded your knowledge when I build my greenhouse your knowledge will help me build a better greenhouse, and I imagine there are others that will share your lesson learned. So you have influenced more than you know Sir.
I knew that when leaves are composting that heat is generated. By adding grass clippings to the leaves helps speed up the process. It is a great use for that to heat a small greenhouse and I'll keep that in mind.Thanks for the info
This is really ingenious. Never knew leaves produced so much heat decomposing in the winter. Really grateful you made this video to share this experiment.
Thermal mass also helps a greenhouse to maintain heat. Basically large tubs of water. It heats up during the day, and releases heat at night, so hopefully the greenhouse never gets too cold. Always good to have multiple ways to keep it warm. Plus the tubes underground, because if they are deep enough underground, the earth deep stays at a constant 50 degrees or so.. Look up "Nebraska man grows oranges in Snow", video . Something like that. It's an older video
If that amount of heat is being generated outside the greenhouse then how much better would it be if it was INSIDE the greenhouse? Contain the heat. Put a layer of soil over it and use it as a hot bed.
This is making me wonder about building above ground leaf composting bed external to the greenhouse at about 5 to 6 foot tall and running flexible drain pipe through it as a heat exchanger. Would not doing this mean that you could get the benefit of a geothermal without the expense of digging a massive hole? I am not saying the idea is without flaws, but I really don't have the equipment to dig a massive hole. BUT-I do have the muscle and space to put up some temp fencing at 6 foot tall and then fill it will leaves with piping buried below. This really has me thinking.
Sometimes we find a pot of gold while digging in a dung pile... You my friend have found such a pot of gold! Please keep thinking outside the box and keep us in your loop!!!
After watching your video almost all the way through... I realized something... I live in the woods. Leaves are free, and abundant. I can build wire mesh enclosures all around the mobile home away from the structure a couple of feet... dump leaves into the gap... and not have to worry so much about pipes freezing underneath on sub-freezing days. Think I'll do this at least on the North, West & East sides of the house. We really only have about 4 months of cold weather here, so that's all I'll need. :) Thanks for sharing. Oh, and I am planning a greenhouse addition to the house on part of the south side. I'd considered building a rocket stove type heater but... maybe I won't have to (which is great news to me... since I have some serious health issues). Thanks again Van!
Collect urine into a bucket, or if you're a man, pee on the leaves. I guarantee the urea will heat up the leaves significantly. It will also increase the speed of breakdown to compost and provide more nitrogen to the garden.
@@-whackd yes but from experience I can promise you the leaf pile and even ground and general area will smell like urine. Even if you stop the area will still smell. I used to pee out of my shed into a leaf pile all the time until working in the shed all I smelled was urine all the time even after I stopped doing it. There are natural ways to eliminate this odor like the stuff they use in Porto potty it's basically urea eating bacteria, but it's an extra step and cost. In other words it's not the perfect solution that you make it sound like
Back in the fifties, my father who was a farmer, built cold frames to start our vegetable transplants, he filled the bottom with about 8-10” Of fresh horse manure and then put a couple inches of sand on top, then flats of seedlings were placed inside. The horse manure heated up and kept the cold frame warm. On real cold nights, below freezing it was my job to throw old carpet pieces on the cold frame sashes. We never used any auxiliary heat, just horse manure composting. We raised some beautiful transplants.
Just when I thought I've learned all the science of efficiently heating a greenhouse then this incredible concept comes along. Just as you said, you never stop learning about anything. The older I get the more I realize how much I don't know. Thank you for your contributions!
I have seen a design of a larger greenhouse. In its center is a working table. Under the table is a rectangular area defined by chicken wire for compost. The table top is removable or hinged to give access to the compost area. At the end of the year, you fill it up and have a heat source for months. It's dead center in the greenhouse. You can even have large plastic water drums on the north side for a heat sink.
Nicely done! Love it when we can openly share what we have learned so others don’t have to reinvent the wheel. So you compost, heat and give your plants a CO2 boost all in one with no CSR on footprint. Kudos.
I've done this somewhat as you have done, but my end wall has hardware cloth which is a little stronger than chicken wire, and then I coiled 25 foot of 4" black plastic drain pipe in the leaves and compost pile. Started one end at the bottom and the other end higher. As the heat is generated and transferred to the pipe coil, it starts an ever so slight flow of warmer air out and into the room. Like your video!
Thanks for the great idea, I have seen similar ideas, but it included a coil of copper in a compost pit made of bricks with leaves for carbon, and grass clippings for nitrogen and or manure added. That pile was near the greenhouse as it would generates lots of heat. The system would pump water threw the compost coil to an underground storage tank / refrigerator in the greenhouse and pumped it threw a small radiator / heat exchanger with a fan to heat the greenhouse. But the fact that your system is completely independent on electric is spectacular. Thanks for your idea and taking time to share it with the public. Rick.
I have seen 100+ videos on the subjects of compost and heating. I believe this one is the best because you show heating for a greenhouse or human house in a proof of concept. Thanks so much.
Yes, compost if mixed properly, 50% carbon items, 50% Nitrogen items, H2o and turned on a regular basis can reach extreme burn temperatures. My hottest compost pile reached over 185 degrees Fahrenheit. I placed a chuck roast in a dutch oven, wrapped the dutch oven in 4 layers of foil. Buried it in the compost pile for 12 hours. Best pot roast ever.
I ran a 4" drainpipe thew the pile with both ends ending in the green house and then attached a small solar fan to one end and it increased the heat into the green house...
I wish I could see this idea being created. Does the drain pipe have holes or is it just the air exchange passing through? *I think I just answered my own question* 😂
Yes, geothermal realities are very smart realities. The ground should be used too. Down about 3 feet in the soil is an ambient temperature of about 57 degrees Fahrenheit! Year round. Solar energy capabilities may be very limited if the EMPs that i believe are to come! Research the 1859 Solar Storm and what Hydrogen Bombs can produce. One seeing all the possibilities is the one that can only prepare MOST! ONLY!
loved the comments on burning... ive switched to shredding branches of trees instead of burning them in big bonfires and then i can use the bark as weed suppressant between my raised beds. Also looks good as well. thanks for this video and idea - a definate epiphany for me. i might do this next november on my own coldframe - wouldnt take too much of a pile for this to work well - this is much better than the crazy flower pot stoves etc on youtube, as you mentioned almost all the outputs from this are useful to the gardener! Love it. thanks
The planet needs more like you. People don't believe that compost can heat their greenhouse. I want a greenhouse on top of a long underground compost cellar. Ramp that leads down and doors on each end. Drive the tractor in one end and out the other. Fall - compost in . Spring - compost out.
Yes true, it may be $free, but there is a investment of time to gather, transport, pile and pack the leaves etc. So the question is then, was their enough heat gain and compost made to equal or excess the value of the time invested. That would depend on each person's situation. It might be free heat or not.
@@CaptainYohan I'd have to say that's well worth it I've racked leaves and brought fire wood in all my life I'm 37-38 I can't remember but racking up leaves is MUCH easier of a chore, so the question still remains is it free heat, I'd have to say, "YES".
I did this in my greenhouse, but I dug a trench down the middle and put the leaves in the ground with pallets over it to walk on. It was a great idea until the first time it rained. Apparently, my greenhouse is on a low point and my pit filled with water. Before that, it worked great.
I have seen this done with a coil of tubing to heat water Im amazed of the stuff we as a Society have forgotten and are only now relearning thank you for sharing 👍
I was suprised to see how hot the thermometer was reading inside the greenhouse... I was thinking it was due to the fermentation... and then I heard you say that leaves produce more heat through fermentation than by burning them, and that was definitely a valuable, fun, and possibly life saving fact! Totally enjoyed this video
Amanda Motroni just remember heat isn't the same as temperature. You can get more heat out over a longer period but still have a much lower temperature over the time period.
This works very well for heat production. You can put a water loop in the leaves and pump the heat to a radiator, doing so you will slow the decomposition and heat output by removing the heat. If you use dry leaves they will last, if you want to boost the heat production add green matter. I had a 10' x 10' square 6' H the temp of a water loop was 158 F, adding green cut grass and plant material boosted it to 180F, but also mulched the pile in only a few weeks. I did the same with woodchips from the tree crews next, That took a little longer to start producing heat but came up to the 150f range and held steady. Again adding green matter to the pile accelerated the decomp and the temperature. This being a continuous heat source you can use water with no need of antifreeze for protection of the system. All exterior pipes require more than adequate insulation. I ran this system to an Air exchange, with moderate satisfaction, Next ran it to an old cast iron radiator, more satisfactory. I think it would be ideal for In Slab heating. But that I did not have. The fuel is all around you. In the suburbs where I was, leaves and then the wood chips were readily available in abundance. Now in a more rural area, once settled will try it with Straw and Hay, it is cheap but have to purchase it. It is a low pressure system so plastic pipe in coils or garden hose is cheap and easy, however, at the first cleaning of mulch, more than a bit tedious to sort out and work around. I am considering using Iron pipe to make the loop, elevated on upended blocks to allow scooping mulch from underneath. adding new material to the top in a cycle as it requires.
This is actually genious! Garden hose looping inside the compost would be so inexpensive to try out. You think the water could circulate passively in a system well enpugh if the radiator is higher from ground than the loop inside the compost?
It was so refreshing to see your video and learn some things I never knew before. I am a gardener, I've had many ups and downs with gardening, and I'm always striving to learn new and better things. But your concept makes sense on a worldwide basis for trying to live in harmony with nature. We all can learn a lot from you. As you learn, please continue to post videos so we can learn with you. I find this highly interesting.
That is a great idea! I have seen a number of greenhouses that use compost to heat them. that is a fantastic method and you get leaf mold when your done!! If you add a water source you can retain more of the heat and help even out the night time temperatures.
+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable Duct work 2x2 framed out of treated lumber wrapped in chicken wire leaving the green house low going deep into the pile and returning to the green house at a higher elevation to allow convection to deliver the heat?
if you do sink it into the ground you are going to take advantage of the thermal capacity of the ground and the compost as long as there is some sort of circulation will really keep a lot of heat
In addition to the duct work, maybe run some lateral vents (corrugated PVC or drain pipe?) to the center of the pile. 90 degrees is a surprising amount of heat, i think it would draw. this got my wheels turning! great video. thanks
AND add a small DC (computer) fan to cycle the air through the pipe. I heat a 18X20X9 greenhouse with leaves and some chicken manure. When I need more heat I add wet grass/hay - but be careful because it can actually ignite - the fan moves the air and prevents that!!
Awesome video Van! This makes so much sense and anyone can do this using the leaves from their yards that they would normally rake up and bag and sit by the curb. Free heat in the winter, can’t beat that!
watch YT video of Ted Talks everything you know about composting is wrong,,, and you will see they make GREAT compost soil for any kind of growing. I allow every one to dump the leaves at my place. I compost them for heat, use some of it for next years garden and sell the leaves as compost for 75$ a cubic yard
Ray Bright , You struggle ? You are not joyful at having such abundance ? In southern California I would have to ask my neighbors if I could have their leaves. They of course all thought that I was nuts. But, you see , our soil was adobe clay . In the dry months , from Match until December, the soil was much like concrete. You could not dig up an earthworm anywhere ! Without being contained any organic matter would just blow away . Using a post hole digger , it would take me two to three days to dig just one post hole 18" deep . The secret is to fill the hole with water, allow it to soak in and then dig out an inch or two until you reached dry clay again and then refill with water. Sometimes three days to dig one post hole by hand . I would shred the leaves and grass clippings and till them into my back yard. After five years of that I finally had some decent soil in my backyard.
Hi, I would love to know what your temps in the greenhouse were during the time you were using this method. Especially at night after sun goes down. And if you are still doing this? A followup would be great. GREAT info. Thanks so much
I wonder in close proximity like that, if it would be possible to run a closed loop water radiant heat system with coiled copper in the leaves and radiators in the greenhouse.
It does! A system like that was build in the 70ties by Jean Pain in southern France. He used waste biomass such as wood chips, manure and others. He made a compost pile, heating pipes (one you can use to build underfloor heating) and he got for about 3 month free heat, plenty of warm water and ! methane gas for cooking! 4 in 1 => Compost, free heat + warm water + gas. And it is absolutely inexpensive. DIY. Please google for compost pile or compost heater.
Check out Paul Wheaton here on youtube or at permies.com as I think his group is using compost piles to generate hot water for domestic use like hot showers. seem to be an easy step to take that further to a water to air heat exchanger and fan
I think that's brilliant. Just as nature intended, or so it seems. You get the fall before the winter, it's great. As long as we never forget that we will never know everything and so keep on learning, then we will keep on learning. Thanks for sharing.
Very impressive, I like your down to “earth” attitude and point of view ( pun intended!). Thank you for the insight as I have been looking for a way to heat my greenhouse in the winter. Thank you very much!
I seen an article in an old mother earth news years ago where a guy coiled black PVC pipe and covered it with compost and it heated water. Mother nature is cool, isn't it.
I have a dream of building a giant greenhouse I can live in and grow tropical fruit trees. I'm looking into using compost as a supplementary heat source. your vid was helpful. thanks
I find that interesting and have had the same thought . I have 10 acers in ky with a 89% done strawbale house. I have the room for one that will be part in ground and part starwbale that will have limited animal access including dog doors and indoor or ingreen house enclosure caged access for other animals that wont be able to access growing area but have small fenced accessable area ingreenhouse. a wood stove and a mini frig , a good couch and a compost toilet and your in...
Van Powell nice! It's always a blessing to meet other sustainability minded folks! I live in Ontario, Canada, near Toronto. There is only one farm in Ontario that grows tropical fruit and they are Canada Banana Farms. They use big hoop houses but I haven't visited and I don't know the logistics yet. I want to buy some land and build a geodesic dome greenhouse and try to be as offgrid as possible. Ideally, I would have a few acres with a forest to chip up and use as mulch inside the greenhouse (giving off steam and heat). I am an arborist so the investment for a chipper would help me professionally as well. Keeping tropical plants warm sustainably is a huge challenge and I have considered wood chip furnaces, compost heaters, solar, geothermal, natural gas, biogas, thermal mass heaters, and of course passive solar itself. I believe a combination of a few of these methods coupled with a keen understanding of tropical horticulture would yield a successful project, a unique business venture, and a fruitful life.
hey Trevor then check out geodome greenhouses...i had same idea...would live in the northern section of the dome and upper level...grow food with fish tank in the rest...solar power for hydro pumping needs...solar heated water stored under a raise floor deck to release heat at night i live down the road from Toronto ...stratford ont...
Thanks for the measurements and proof of the great heating power of compost! I've heard you can heat a whole greenhouse with it, but your video goes beyond the speculation. Thanks much!
Hi Van, I am looking at doing similar for a Commercial setup, however the one thing I think will be important to consider when using a Compost Heap along side a greenhouse is the bugs that are attracted and which reproduce in the Compost. Our plan is to keep chickens fed off the bugs on the compost, while using the heat for the plants.
If you quit learning, you're dying...lol Words of wisdom from my dad, an old fashioned gardener. I've learned a LOT from you guys and now I've learned how to keep my plants warm for nothing. Thanks man!! Subscribing now.
@Spiritoflugh8 Not sure why it wouldn't work. I watched a video with a larger greenhouse that had a section of composting hay that kept the temps quite cozy.
thanks for pointing that out. This winter i just have empty pots and dahlia tubers piled into the green house shack. this would be a good place for a bale of water soaked straw for the winter it could heat the shack and it's ready for mulch in the stpring when it could be cleared out for spring planting opening up the space for new plant shoots. -= easier for me to use straw than gather that many leaves.
The pile needs to be big enough to produce heat. Look up “hot bed” and there are all kinds of videos on how to do this. I just made one with chicken and horse bedding and rotting straw yesterday. I put it in the greenhouse.
You just saved me a ton of work!! I had all kinds of plans for greenhouse heaters bouncing around in my head and would probably built several varieties if I hadn't just seen your video. Your idea is light years ahead of any kind of combustion system I have seen. Starting tomorrow on our, "leaf heater"!
Please take note that this setup was an experiment only and is most certainly not the most efficient or best way to apply the principle. There are many ways that this would work better and more efficient manner. This was meant to just bring awareness and attention to the possibility it was never intended to be a how-to video or to suggest this is the best way to do this.
The idea is great. The concept means that the heat must start at the bottom of the green house, but the top of the house needs to be all covered, because the internal air heat created inside of the house that will rise up. The leaves must be at the bottom of west and east sides to capture the sun light that also were decomposing.
Some ideas just make sense as solutions to real life situations, what came up for me is three perfect location for my north Wall of my greenhouse becoming my compost center during winter for free hearing. Sunlight is not needed and as you started the R factor turns lemons to lemonade. Thanks for the ideas.
Just came across your video. I'm so glad to hear this method works. My son & I had a similar idea tossed on the back burner until now. The weather here is breaking for a few days, so hope to get the process going. Thanks so much for you video!
Water thing with copper is neat idea. Have leaves lower than the radiators that way the convection/ hot water rises, cold water sinks you wouldnt need powere to circulate water.
Thank you so much! I'm in NJ and I'll set up a leaf bin next to to my greenhouse this week if I can gain a bit of heat consistently throughout the winter!! I'm excited to try!
I like your idea of a lot, I'm glad to see you showed this to someone. I used this idea when I farmed for a short time. My barn had a rock Foundation so I piled hey up around it to keep the barn warm and it worked. Until the cows decided that they could climb like goats and climbed up on the hay pile and used it for a litter box. Haha. I learned a lot from that experiment.
Try filling large pkastic bags with leaves, a quart of cheep soda and a little cow manure , Tye up end and place thru out green house. Heat will come up after 30 days and last about 60 days. You will have good compost for spring plants. The large compost pile cant be managed very well but having mulched leaves and introducing the soda and started when the heat is needed works well.
I read an old book about green houses in turn of the century N.Y. They dug a large pit in the end of giant greenhouses and filled it with horse manure, this would heat the house so much they had to vent daily to cool it down.
Thank you, Mr.Powell, for your wonderful ideas for helping to save my family money and keeping us warm in these hard economic times... thank you, and well done, sir, well done indeed. You are a real "American Super Hero" in my family's eyes in these hard financial times.
Thank you, your video has given me the answer to my question. I'm moving to a place that has trees over the greenhouse area and that makes solar out of reach, so this will work PERFECT. GREAT TIMLY VIDEO.
Man that's awesome I've been trying to find cheap ways to heat a greenhouse and I wondered about compost and was worried about the smell. I had low voltage heaters but did nothing and a ceramic 750 watt heater made it just tolerable during freeze but not enuff and killed the electric bill. My other idea was the dryer vent is close to my greenhouse project and I have a child so there are at least two loads of laundry done a day so I was gonna run a tub extension thru a port in greenhouse and recycle some of that hot hair which just would blow outside anyway
watch YT video of Ted Talks everything you know about composting is wrong,,, and you will see they make GREAT compost soil for any kind of growing. I allow every one to dump the leaves at my place. I compost them for heat, use some of it for next years garden and sell the leaves as compost for 75$ a cubic yard. It is enough heat to grow greens and herbs year round no heat. look up simple heat exchangers and go buck wild with it..LOL
meckleboy That's the spirit we reuse the dryer duct as supplemental heat in winter but add an lent trap to it or you may risk a fire we have used a 5 gal. Bucket with couple inches of water in it to take out the lent.
City people have no idea about living off the grid! They have servants from South America to build their fires at home...would not understand using a water stove at all or the great smell of a barn!
@@mike-ner6645 Actually it doesn't produce carbon monoxide. Think about a gas cooking range in millions of homes. Burning gasoline produces carbon monoxide. Burning charcoal produces carbon monoxide. Burning natural or lp gas does not.
WOW! Here outside Colorado Springs, wondering How to heat for the winter. Will be building small aquaponics system in greenhouse next spring. I was wondering how to heat it in the winter. You, Sir, have solved that dilemma for me. Thank you ever so much.
Hello Mr. Powell,thank you so much for sharing this Video.I been sharing since Long after having various ideas as far as building a green house and how to heat it without paying lots of Money,being I have low income right now.This is one of,if not the best helpful info I came across so far,again thank you and have a great day...Kenneth
Glad it gave you something to think about and I have a few ideas on how to build green houses too. some of my other videos are on such subjects check it out might find something else to consider
TrustNoOne JESUSisSATAN, moving the compost inside sacrifices limited interior space - that's what makes this video so cool: the compost is on the outside.
Hindsight is 20/20! But your afterthought has provided many of us with forethought! And as I scrolled down, many others have given insight into how to improve upon what you have done. I really just want to say Thank You. You have done us all a valuable service by sharing this!
Research Jean Pain, the french man who heated his entire house in the winter with compost piles! He also used the methane from them to run his stove and other things!
I've read about Jean Pain but I've never seen anyone successfully recreate what he claimed he could do. It's worth knowing that he had access to TONS of woodchip. I'm not sure how useful that is for everyday people. If you've seen anyone that has been successful can you link to it as I think it is a great idea if it works.
Michael Dean anyone can have access to tons of free wood chips unless they’re just super rural. There are tree trimming people all over most towns wishing they had someplace free to dump wood chips usually. Even websites where you signup to get chips dumped anytime they’re out with a load
@@Rangband1 I get a local tree surgeon to drop them with me from time to time. Jean Pain had massive, massive piles of them as far as I can tell. Anyhow, not seen it recreated effectively by anyone. The piles I've seen online are all too small and end up losing heat really quickly. Happy to be shown differently though. Have you had any success?
Michael Dean pile size definitely determines how long the heat lasts for sure. I’m working on doing a wood chip compost heated greenhouse, want to do a hot water heat setup as well but greenhouse first. Will let ya know how it goes 😁
You just helped me solve my greenhouse planning issues. Large compost pile on the north side with pipes (Jean Pain method) with an opening for co2 and an oil burner to heat water for the minus 25c temps mid winter. Almost every video I've seen uses wood chips for compost. I never thought leaves produced that much heat. And I have acres of them. Thanks
I read an article about someone having a trench built by having some bricks stacked about a foot high the length of the greenhouse. They used horse manure and raised worms in this. Covered by pallets. So,Four foot wide ruffly. This is how they warmed their greenhouse for the winter. From the posts below some thought has to go into not getting things so hot that it lights on fire. I remember picking up grass clipping in a garbage bag and it is really hot to the touch.
I remember reading about a similar technique. They would put a row or a pile of leaves/manure in the middle of greenhouses over a 100 years ago in Bulgaria to extend the growing season for tomatoes and when the decomposition was done they would spread the now new fertilizer around for the next season.I guess it would have provided co2 as well but they probably didnt know about that back then
There others doing the same thing in 4 Times the size of you green house, they are making the compost heap inside the green house with animal poop and all the green waste. This one lady has 3 walls up to hip height, so she can wheel borrow straight in. When she is done she slots her boards in and waters it down. Then places cloth over the top. Having great results with good heat for the winter. She doesn't have much smell, as the brown and green waste is well balanced. If I find her clip I'll let you know. Great stuff Van keep learning and sharing.
I like the idea of having coiled hose in the center of the pile, with both ends sitting in the greenhouse, with a solar fan on one end moving air through the hose. I wonder if you would get more heat by putting one cup of beer and one cup of ammonia mixed into the dry leaves to act as a starter for the decomposition. I also wonder if you may have better luck by keeping the leaves loosely tarped (allows oxygen to get in) to keep the heat in, and any precipitation out.
I know its an old comment.. I'd leave the tarp off so the leaves get wet and encourage decomposition which creates heat. Luckily the leaves themselves act as an insulator, and if needed more leaves can be added to the pile. But if tarping loosely the sides could be done, I would just leave the top open.
I love your statement about decomposing leaves being a long slow burn, and yielding more heat than actual burning would! This reminds me of Buckminster Fuller saying that smoke from a wood fire is sunlight unwinding from the log.
william tell I have a corner sunny spot to build green house attached to 2 sides of house on the outside tho I was thinking am. Wood stove but I like his idea, I could take the widow out n put a door to connect but then my kitchen will be cold if I shared the heat.
namie schowgurow just don't use the who window, use 1/3 OF the window . It's not like you have to have the same temperature of your house with the greenhouse.
farmers have had bales start on fire for no reason. I have seen round bales burning in a field because they where to damp when they where baled in fall, just a heads up.
Love it! I will try this combined with some heat pipes with either water or air. Stay humble and grateful for the ability to be a lifelong student - if you admit you don't know, it keeps you curious and open to all the ways you could learn what you need to.
Hi Van Powell,I wonder what the temps are in the center, measured with a compost thermometer for minimal disturbance. Still though 80+ temps, free heat, just because you piled it up against your building that's a smart move. Also if the temps fall off, add some fresh material to your pile and give it a good stir, temps will rebound. Looks like you'll have a summer redesign job on your green house. Might be tricky to pull off the same with a plastic hoop house style green house. Just have to be cautious of the plastic walls, maybe adding a couple of sheets of landscape fabric will be enough cushion. I wonder if you could draw out more heat by placing a perforated drain pipe into the center of the compost pile, just a thought. Cheers,Bill
many ways to do it bill. any simple heat exchanger set up will do it. you should look at my green house design videos too might be some useful things in there
The Victorian greenhouses in the U.K. were warmed in a similar method but using horse manure and piping. There was a lot of manure back then ! Good idea for a video. 👍 Thank you 🙏
@@michaelbonacasa4242 yes he took 2 reading 80 & 90 deg, at end where leaves are, I would assume it would be close to that all over as he mentioned the north wall was insulated... BRILLIANT idea
@@janinasimons8533 Those were the temps inside the compost; I think the original question (and what I also wondered) is what is the ambient temperature in the greenhouse (and what the temp was outside; that may have been mentioned, I don't recall). In any event, it is a really cool consideration and makes me wonder how it could be implemented practically (i.e. in a home) and in a way that wouldn't look/feel like living under a compost heap?
@@michaelbonacasa4242 TU, I thought I saw , but I guess I didnt see him put the thermostat into the compost... hope he answers the question? would be interesting. thanks for correcting me :)
@@janinasimons8533 No worries; as I mentioned, the video had me thinking how one could do this practically and attractively as a built-in composting heater and what the particulars of benefit-to-cost might be (i.e. how could I stop the heat exchange in summer but continue to compost?). Another video showed a couple coiling tubing inside a compost pile to heat water for their home, which is also clever, and could add a 2nd purpose and benefit to the solution. In another video about "rapid" composting, the videographer said they could achieve internal temps of 170-190˚F by creating the right conditions! All very interesting stuff, thanks for the great discussion :)
I love people's ingenuity, and this is great! With the things that are going on in the world at present, and especially with reports that there could be global food shortages, we need all the help we can get. Thank you for sharing this with us! Greeting from UK!
These things can catch fire ! They do produce CO2, and other gases. If you want to research this, search agricultural sources for key word "silage". Also use keyword phrase "composting manure". The tricky things to manage will moisture content, density of packing down the pile, odor, heat production, and managing particle size(chopping it up).
Duke Makedo - "They do produce CO2, and other gases. " Al Gore would not like that. OTOH I thing Van Powell's vegetables and plants would like it very much.
1 wheel drive: Yep, but recognize that if the greenhouse is nearly airtight, you can die from the gases. I am a farmer. Farmers have died in silos(composting buildings). If it were me, I wouldn't compost inside a greenhouse. Build a trench silo, and run coils of tubing thru it, if you want to gather it's heat. Be prepared for stink and seepage.
Yeah, one of the more tricky gasses that are created by decomposition of cellulose is methane, which is highly flammable. If the greenhouse is that airtight it could go boom next time there is a spark of any kind. Some type of an O2 level sensor might be a good idea
Cap the pile with wood chips and charcoal created in a wood stove through pirolisis. It will absorb outgassing including methane and odors. Whenever you notice and odor add more charcoal. This is also a great way to add biochar to your finished compost. If you properly ventilate your pile, you should have a minimum of odors. Try perforated pipe at the bottom of the composting material. I would not compost inside a greenhouse, attach a pile surrounded on three sides by straw bales. Cover with a sheet rigid foam and tarp everything. Good luck.
So true, the Methane gas produced will have you thinking twice about filling your greenhouse with this directly. Best to lay coiled pipe in the leaves like a makeshift heat exchanger and only allow fresh air into the greenhouse via the pipe. Move the leaves from the side of the greenhouse and make a sealed container or wrap the cage in a pond liner to make a composter.
Thanks for sharing! The beauty of exploration is that the best and biggest discoveries are found hiding in mistakes!! "What's not" gives "what's what" the unmistakable shininess that endlessly pulls us forward into greater and greater things! There is no right way! Or, rather, they're ALL right ways, when the "right way" is forward. We might stall, thinking we know things and making more "mistakes", but there's no going back!
Buddy of mine had a compost pile start smoking late one afternoon. He had been stoking it with kitchen scraps, fish guts and a ton of grass clippings and leaves for weeks. If he hadn't put on a lot of green stuff on top recently it probably would have continued to flames. He had to soak it down with a hose for an hour before it stopped smoking.
This has to be one of the most valuable videos I’ve seen about greenhouse heat. Thanks for sharing. Also I enjoy reading the comments. You’ve earned a subscriber!
Not bad for a country boy! Makes total sense, but since Big Utility can't meter it and charge you for it they'll probably find a way to make it illegal to do that sort of thing, just like the MF's in Florida made it illegal to capture and retain rain water because you weren't using the city utility which is now Required for you to be hooked up to city and county energy barrons,,,
Not true, conspiracy guy. Florida actually encourages rainwater collection to ease the burden on municipal systems, and many municipalities offer rebates and other incentives to offset the cost of storage tanks, pumps, filters etc. You could have googled it before posting your comment.
Awesome, thanks for the discovery! am I freezing here in my home which has 0 insulation! we raked up millions of leaves and bagged them to be picked up by the leaf men! just to think we could have insulated part of the house and been much warmer naturally! I will never forget this video! thanks!
bullshit. aerobic decomposition requires AIR. The tighter a bale is bundled, the less possible space there is for air to be. That's the purpose of baling it in the first place, to replicate the environment of the hay stack (wherein hay was stacked vertically, so the pressure on the lower portion from the weight of the hay above it, would create an anerobic environment and preserve the hay.
Great idea. Pilling leaves on north wall is also a great idea. Rocket stove is still good for backup or burning items that don’t compost well on super cold nights
The key thing you pointed out was getting heat from the decomposing leaves without adding carbon to the air which would contribute to climate change. Wonderful job!
I like the concept. QUESTIONS: It’s been 4 years since you made this video. I would like to see a video update. 1). Do you still use this method? 2). Did the pile of leaves continue to heat your greenhouse all through the winter? 3). Did you have to do anything to the pile to keep it in the active heat composting phase? 4). What zone are you in? What works in one area might not work in colder areas. I look forward to seeing either an update to this video or answers to my questions. Thank you.
Excellent questions! I wonder whether the lack of response is because he didn't read the comments or whether his idea didn't work as well in the longer term as he hoped.
I think you're great! What an idea at once so simple and powerful! Thank you for sharing this great thought and example of harnessing this readily available and plentiful heat source. Hoping to build a simple home soon, and will certainly use this great idea you've shown us. God bless you and best wishes. You have what so many lack: common sense and resourcefulness.
Thank you for the knowledge, I will use it and pass it on to my family who all have green houses. Your selflessness in sharing will help more that you know.
Don't beat yourself up, your work here not only has expanded your knowledge when I build my greenhouse your knowledge will help me build a better greenhouse, and I imagine there are others that will share your lesson learned. So you have influenced more than you know Sir.
do all the sides
@@jeweleratlarge Its a green house need light coming in
Bio mass is the principal concept behind earthships heating off grid. Got so hot it melted the place down early on. Great video thank you!
I knew that when leaves are composting that heat is generated. By adding grass clippings to the leaves helps speed up the process. It is a great use for that to heat a small greenhouse and I'll keep that in mind.Thanks for the info
Even in a depression or collapsed economy, I can always find free leaves in the fall/winter
This is really ingenious. Never knew leaves produced so much heat decomposing in the winter. Really grateful you made this video to share this experiment.
Thermal mass also helps a greenhouse to maintain heat. Basically large tubs of water. It heats up during the day, and releases heat at night, so hopefully the greenhouse never gets too cold. Always good to have multiple ways to keep it warm. Plus the tubes underground, because if they are deep enough underground, the earth deep stays at a constant 50 degrees or so.. Look up "Nebraska man grows oranges in Snow", video . Something like that. It's an older video
If that amount of heat is being generated outside the greenhouse then how much better would it be if it was INSIDE the greenhouse? Contain the heat. Put a layer of soil over it and use it as a hot bed.
I believe it uses the composting heat generated by the leaves.
@@GWAForUTBE Yes. It would.
This is making me wonder about building above ground leaf composting bed external to the greenhouse at about 5 to 6 foot tall and running flexible drain pipe through it as a heat exchanger. Would not doing this mean that you could get the benefit of a geothermal without the expense of digging a massive hole? I am not saying the idea is without flaws, but I really don't have the equipment to dig a massive hole. BUT-I do have the muscle and space to put up some temp fencing at 6 foot tall and then fill it will leaves with piping buried below. This really has me thinking.
Sometimes we find a pot of gold while digging in a dung pile... You my friend have found such a pot of gold! Please keep thinking outside the box and keep us in your loop!!!
@Richard Frazee. You are absolutely correct.
Ingenious he is. 👍🏿
Shoot man a lifetime of learning is a gift. no reason to feel a way about always learning. Thanks for teaching me something
After watching your video almost all the way through... I realized something... I live in the woods. Leaves are free, and abundant. I can build wire mesh enclosures all around the mobile home away from the structure a couple of feet... dump leaves into the gap... and not have to worry so much about pipes freezing underneath on sub-freezing days. Think I'll do this at least on the North, West & East sides of the house. We really only have about 4 months of cold weather here, so that's all I'll need. :) Thanks for sharing.
Oh, and I am planning a greenhouse addition to the house on part of the south side. I'd considered building a rocket stove type heater but... maybe I won't have to (which is great news to me... since I have some serious health issues). Thanks again Van!
Collect urine into a bucket, or if you're a man, pee on the leaves. I guarantee the urea will heat up the leaves significantly. It will also increase the speed of breakdown to compost and provide more nitrogen to the garden.
@@-whackd yes but from experience I can promise you the leaf pile and even ground and general area will smell like urine. Even if you stop the area will still smell. I used to pee out of my shed into a leaf pile all the time until working in the shed all I smelled was urine all the time even after I stopped doing it. There are natural ways to eliminate this odor like the stuff they use in Porto potty it's basically urea eating bacteria, but it's an extra step and cost. In other words it's not the perfect solution that you make it sound like
did you go through with it? how did the critter factor affect the overall benefit/loss ratio?
Back in the fifties, my father who was a farmer, built cold frames to start our vegetable transplants, he filled the bottom with about 8-10” Of fresh horse manure and then put a couple inches of sand on top, then flats of seedlings were placed inside. The horse manure heated up and kept the cold frame warm. On real cold nights, below freezing it was my job to throw old carpet pieces on the cold frame sashes. We never used any auxiliary heat, just horse manure composting. We raised some beautiful transplants.
Just when I thought I've learned all the science of efficiently heating a greenhouse then this incredible concept comes along. Just as you said, you never stop learning about anything. The older I get the more I realize how much I don't know. Thank you for your contributions!
I have seen a design of a larger greenhouse. In its center is a working table. Under the table is a rectangular area defined by chicken wire for compost. The table top is removable or hinged to give access to the compost area. At the end of the year, you fill it up and have a heat source for months. It's dead center in the greenhouse. You can even have large plastic water drums on the north side for a heat sink.
Nicely done! Love it when we can openly share what we have learned so others don’t have to reinvent the wheel. So you compost, heat and give your plants a CO2 boost all in one with no CSR on footprint. Kudos.
I've done this somewhat as you have done, but my end wall has hardware cloth which is a little stronger than chicken wire, and then I coiled 25 foot of 4" black plastic drain pipe in the leaves and compost pile. Started one end at the bottom and the other end higher. As the heat is generated and transferred to the pipe coil, it starts an ever so slight flow of warmer air out and into the room. Like your video!
Thanks for the great idea, I have seen similar ideas, but it included a coil of copper in a compost pit made of bricks with leaves for carbon, and grass clippings for nitrogen and or manure added. That pile was near the greenhouse as it would generates lots of heat. The system would pump water threw the compost coil to an underground storage tank / refrigerator in the greenhouse and pumped it threw a small radiator / heat exchanger with a fan to heat the greenhouse. But the fact that your system is completely independent on electric is spectacular. Thanks for your idea and taking time to share it with the public. Rick.
I have seen 100+ videos on the subjects of compost and heating. I believe this one is the best because you show heating for a greenhouse or human house in a proof of concept. Thanks so much.
thank you for taking the time to record and share. I just watched for the first time, in 2022, so thanks for keeping it active, too.
Yes, compost if mixed properly, 50% carbon items, 50% Nitrogen items, H2o and turned on a regular basis can reach extreme burn temperatures. My hottest compost pile reached over 185 degrees Fahrenheit. I placed a chuck roast in a dutch oven, wrapped the dutch oven in 4 layers of foil. Buried it in the compost pile for 12 hours. Best pot roast ever.
like the way your thinking... back when engines were big and ran hot we used to make barbecue on long trips!
This was one of the most innovative things I have seen in a long time! You're a genius. Thanks for the video.
I ran a 4" drainpipe thew the pile with both ends ending in the green house and then attached a small solar fan to one end and it increased the heat into the green house...
Brilliant
Reheating the already heated air!!
I was thinking that a fan would really help circulate the warm air
I wish I could see this idea being created. Does the drain pipe have holes or is it just the air exchange passing through? *I think I just answered my own question* 😂
Yes, geothermal realities are very smart realities. The ground should be used too. Down about 3 feet in the soil is an ambient temperature of about 57 degrees Fahrenheit! Year round. Solar energy capabilities may be very limited if the EMPs that i believe are to come! Research the 1859 Solar Storm and what Hydrogen Bombs can produce. One seeing all the possibilities is the one that can only prepare MOST! ONLY!
loved the comments on burning... ive switched to shredding branches of trees instead of burning them in big bonfires and then i can use the bark as weed suppressant between my raised beds. Also looks good as well. thanks for this video and idea - a definate epiphany for me. i might do this next november on my own coldframe - wouldnt take too much of a pile for this to work well - this is much better than the crazy flower pot stoves etc on youtube, as you mentioned almost all the outputs from this are useful to the gardener! Love it. thanks
The planet needs more like you. People don't believe that compost can heat their greenhouse. I want a greenhouse on top of a long underground compost cellar. Ramp that leads down and doors on each end. Drive the tractor in one end and out the other. Fall - compost in . Spring - compost out.
" I don't know how many BTU's it is. But, I know it's free"
Well said
Yes true, it may be $free, but there is a investment of time to gather, transport, pile and pack the leaves etc. So the question is then, was their enough heat gain and compost made to equal or excess the value of the time invested. That would depend on each person's situation. It might be free heat or not.
Man....
@@CaptainYohan compared to cutting and transporting firewood? the leaves are just on the ground waiting to be raked.
@@CaptainYohan I'd have to say that's well worth it I've racked leaves and brought fire wood in all my life I'm 37-38 I can't remember but racking up leaves is MUCH easier of a chore, so the question still remains is it free heat, I'd have to say, "YES".
@@CaptainYohan No gardener can ever have too much compost. It's what we're already doing. Might as well use the heat also.
"I don't know how many BTUs that is, but I know its free."
FREE T U's!
THIS is the kind of intelligence that is missing from our society for the most part these days. Keep learning, keep improving! Thanks for sharing. :-)
there is a reason it is missing.
I did this in my greenhouse, but I dug a trench down the middle and put the leaves in the ground with pallets over it to walk on. It was a great idea until the first time it rained. Apparently, my greenhouse is on a low point and my pit filled with water. Before that, it worked great.
so perhaps if the sides were covered to keep the water away... would it stay great?
I have seen this done with a coil of tubing to heat water Im amazed of the stuff we as a Society have forgotten and are only now relearning thank you for sharing 👍
I was suprised to see how hot the thermometer was reading inside the greenhouse... I was thinking it was due to the fermentation... and then I heard you say that leaves produce more heat through fermentation than by burning them, and that was definitely a valuable, fun, and possibly life saving fact! Totally enjoyed this video
Amanda Motroni just remember heat isn't the same as temperature. You can get more heat out over a longer period but still have a much lower temperature over the time period.
This works very well for heat production. You can put a water loop in the leaves and pump the heat to a radiator, doing so you will slow the decomposition and heat output by removing the heat. If you use dry leaves they will last, if you want to boost the heat production add green matter. I had a 10' x 10' square 6' H the temp of a water loop was 158 F, adding green cut grass and plant material boosted it to 180F, but also mulched the pile in only a few weeks.
I did the same with woodchips from the tree crews next, That took a little longer to start producing heat but came up to the 150f range and held steady. Again adding green matter to the pile accelerated the decomp and the temperature.
This being a continuous heat source you can use water with no need of antifreeze for protection of the system. All exterior pipes require more than adequate insulation.
I ran this system to an Air exchange, with moderate satisfaction, Next ran it to an old cast iron radiator, more satisfactory. I think it would be ideal for In Slab heating. But that I did not have.
The fuel is all around you. In the suburbs where I was, leaves and then the wood chips were readily available in abundance. Now in a more rural area, once settled will try it with Straw and Hay, it is cheap but have to purchase it.
It is a low pressure system so plastic pipe in coils or garden hose is cheap and easy, however, at the first cleaning of mulch, more than a bit tedious to sort out and work around.
I am considering using Iron pipe to make the loop, elevated on upended blocks to allow scooping mulch from underneath. adding new material to the top in a cycle as it requires.
This is actually genious! Garden hose looping inside the compost would be so inexpensive to try out. You think the water could circulate passively in a system well enpugh if the radiator is higher from ground than the loop inside the compost?
It was so refreshing to see your video and learn some things I never knew before. I am a gardener, I've had many ups and downs with gardening, and I'm always striving to learn new and better things. But your concept makes sense on a worldwide basis for trying to live in harmony with nature. We all can learn a lot from you. As you learn, please continue to post videos so we can learn with you. I find this highly interesting.
That is a great idea! I have seen a number of greenhouses that use compost to heat them. that is a fantastic method and you get leaf mold when your done!!
If you add a water source you can retain more of the heat and help even out the night time temperatures.
+Alberta Urban Garden Simple Organic and Sustainable Duct work 2x2 framed out of treated lumber wrapped in chicken wire leaving the green house low going deep into the pile and returning to the green house at a higher elevation to allow convection to deliver the heat?
if you do sink it into the ground you are going to take advantage of the thermal capacity of the ground and the compost as long as there is some sort of circulation will really keep a lot of heat
+Van Powell genius
In addition to the duct work, maybe run some lateral vents (corrugated PVC or drain pipe?) to the center of the pile. 90 degrees is a surprising amount of heat, i think it would draw. this got my wheels turning! great video. thanks
AND add a small DC (computer) fan to cycle the air through the pipe. I heat a 18X20X9 greenhouse with leaves and some chicken manure. When I need more heat I add wet grass/hay - but be careful because it can actually ignite - the fan moves the air and prevents that!!
Awesome video Van! This makes so much sense and anyone can do this using the leaves from their yards that they would normally rake up and bag and sit by the curb. Free heat in the winter, can’t beat that!
Thank you from PA, where I struggle yearly to get rid of millions of leaves.
watch YT video of Ted Talks everything you know about composting is wrong,,, and you will see they make GREAT compost soil for any kind of growing. I allow every one to dump the leaves at my place. I compost them for heat, use some of it for next years garden and sell the leaves as compost for 75$ a cubic yard
Ray Bright ,
You struggle ? You are not joyful at having such abundance ? In southern California I would have to ask my neighbors if I could have their leaves. They of course all thought that I was nuts. But, you see , our soil was adobe clay .
In the dry months , from Match until December, the soil was much like concrete. You could not dig up an earthworm anywhere ! Without being contained any organic matter would just blow away . Using a post hole digger , it would take me two to three days to dig just one post hole 18" deep . The secret is to fill the hole with water, allow it to soak in and then dig out an inch or two until you reached dry clay again and then refill with water. Sometimes three days to dig one post hole by hand . I would shred the leaves and grass clippings and till them into my back yard. After five years of that I finally had some decent soil in my backyard.
Hi, I would love to know what your temps in the greenhouse were during the time you were using this method. Especially at night after sun goes down. And if you are still doing this? A followup would be great. GREAT info. Thanks so much
I wonder in close proximity like that, if it would be possible to run a closed loop water radiant heat system with coiled copper in the leaves and radiators in the greenhouse.
+Todd Weller Yes sir it has been done successfully . search you tube for compost hot water
+Van Powell or even circulate air threw the coils to pussh heat into the green house
take heat out, slow compost
It does! A system like that was build in the 70ties by Jean Pain in southern France. He used waste biomass such as wood chips, manure and others. He made a compost pile, heating pipes (one you can use to build underfloor heating) and he got for about 3 month free heat, plenty of warm water and ! methane gas for cooking!
4 in 1 => Compost, free heat + warm water + gas. And it is absolutely inexpensive. DIY.
Please google for compost pile or compost heater.
Check out Paul Wheaton here on youtube or at permies.com as I think his group is using compost piles to generate hot water for domestic use like hot showers. seem to be an easy step to take that further to a water to air heat exchanger and fan
You explained this process better than anyone else that I have researched on UA-cam. Well done!
I think that's brilliant. Just as nature intended, or so it seems. You get the fall before the winter, it's great.
As long as we never forget that we will never know everything and so keep on learning, then we will keep on learning.
Thanks for sharing.
Very impressive, I like your down to “earth” attitude and point of view ( pun intended!). Thank you for the insight as I have been looking for a way to heat my greenhouse in the winter. Thank you very much!
I seen an article in an old mother earth news years ago where a guy coiled black PVC pipe and covered it with compost and it heated water. Mother nature is cool, isn't it.
This is the kind of guy you would want to apprentice with! Intelligent, communicative, and resourceful!! Thank you Van, Excellent work!!! :D
I have a dream of building a giant greenhouse I can live in and grow tropical fruit trees. I'm looking into using compost as a supplementary heat source. your vid was helpful. thanks
I find that interesting and have had the same thought . I have 10 acers in ky with a 89% done strawbale house. I have the room for one that will be part in ground and part starwbale that will have limited animal access including dog doors and indoor or ingreen house enclosure caged access for other animals that wont be able to access growing area but have small fenced accessable area ingreenhouse. a wood stove and a mini frig , a good couch and a compost toilet and your in...
Van Powell nice! It's always a blessing to meet other sustainability minded folks!
I live in Ontario, Canada, near Toronto.
There is only one farm in Ontario that grows tropical fruit and they are Canada Banana Farms. They use big hoop houses but I haven't visited and I don't know the logistics yet.
I want to buy some land and build a geodesic dome greenhouse and try to be as offgrid as possible.
Ideally, I would have a few acres with a forest to chip up and use as mulch inside the greenhouse (giving off steam and heat). I am an arborist so the investment for a chipper would help me professionally as well.
Keeping tropical plants warm sustainably is a huge challenge and I have considered wood chip furnaces, compost heaters, solar, geothermal, natural gas, biogas, thermal mass heaters, and of course passive solar itself.
I believe a combination of a few of these methods coupled with a keen understanding of tropical horticulture would yield a successful project, a unique business venture, and a fruitful life.
Van Powell subscribed just now so hopefully I'll get notified when that bale house is complete
hey Trevor then check out geodome greenhouses...i had same idea...would live in the northern section of the dome and upper level...grow food with fish tank in the rest...solar power for hydro pumping needs...solar heated water stored under a raise floor deck to release heat at night
i live down the road from Toronto ...stratford ont...
sounds awesome.
Thanks for the measurements and proof of the great heating power of compost! I've heard you can heat a whole greenhouse with it, but your video goes beyond the speculation. Thanks much!
Hi Van,
I am looking at doing similar for a Commercial setup, however the one thing I think will be important to consider when using a Compost Heap along side a greenhouse is the bugs that are attracted and which reproduce in the Compost. Our plan is to keep chickens fed off the bugs on the compost, while using the heat for the plants.
I'm getting chickens next spring and I was thinking the same thing.
Gardening is just a giant science experiment….that’s what makes it so fascinating.
That is some well-spoken truth!
Maybe go back and edit in the ambient temp in the greenhouse. I found my self wanting to know that. Nice vid otherwise.
Same question, 2 years later any answer ?
If you quit learning, you're dying...lol Words of wisdom from my dad, an old fashioned gardener. I've learned a LOT from you guys and now I've learned how to keep my plants warm for nothing. Thanks man!! Subscribing now.
Really like this, video. I'd move the whole pile inside under the plants in long trays let the heat rise up directly under them.
Much better using the long tray with plants an soil in it. Use the leaves as a mulch. Keeps the heat in.
@Spiritoflugh8 Not sure why it wouldn't work. I watched a video with a larger greenhouse that had a section of composting hay that kept the temps quite cozy.
thanks for pointing that out. This winter i just have empty pots and dahlia tubers piled into the green house shack. this would be a good place for a bale of water soaked straw for the winter it could heat the shack and it's ready for mulch in the stpring when it could be cleared out for spring planting opening up the space for new plant shoots. -= easier for me to use straw than gather that many leaves.
The pile needs to be big enough to produce heat. Look up “hot bed” and there are all kinds of videos on how to do this. I just made one with chicken and horse bedding and rotting straw yesterday. I put it in the greenhouse.
You just saved me a ton of work!! I had all kinds of plans for greenhouse heaters bouncing around in my head and would probably built several varieties if I hadn't just seen your video. Your idea is light years ahead of any kind of combustion system I have seen. Starting tomorrow on our, "leaf heater"!
Please take note that this setup was an experiment only and is most certainly not the most efficient or best way to apply the principle. There are many ways that this would work better and more efficient manner. This was meant to just bring awareness and attention to the possibility it was never intended to be a how-to video or to suggest this is the best way to do this.
Holy smokes, that is the great answer I have been looking for. Thank you....
The idea is great. The concept means that the heat must start at the bottom of the green house, but the top of the house needs to be all covered, because the internal air heat created inside of the house that will rise up. The leaves must be at the bottom of west and east sides to capture the sun light that also were decomposing.
Some ideas just make sense as solutions to real life situations, what came up for me is three perfect location for my north Wall of my greenhouse becoming my compost center during winter for free hearing. Sunlight is not needed and as you started the R factor turns lemons to lemonade. Thanks for the ideas.
Just came across your video. I'm so glad to hear this method works. My son & I had a similar idea tossed on the back burner until now. The weather here is breaking for a few days, so hope to get the process going. Thanks so much for you video!
Water thing with copper is neat idea. Have leaves lower than the radiators that way the convection/ hot water rises, cold water sinks you wouldnt need powere to circulate water.
Thank you so much! I'm in NJ and I'll set up a leaf bin next to to my greenhouse this week if I can gain a bit of heat consistently throughout the winter!! I'm excited to try!
I like your idea of a lot, I'm glad to see you showed this to someone. I used this idea when I farmed for a short time. My barn had a rock Foundation so I piled hey up around it to keep the barn warm and it worked. Until the cows decided that they could climb like goats and climbed up on the hay pile and used it for a litter box. Haha. I learned a lot from that experiment.
Impressive! Free heat. Cost and labor effective; reusable material and no waste. Good Deal.
I really like your stove set up.
Try filling large pkastic bags with leaves, a quart of cheep soda and a little cow manure , Tye up end and place thru out green house. Heat will come up after 30 days and last about 60 days. You will have good compost for spring plants. The large compost pile cant be managed very well but having mulched leaves and introducing the soda and started when the heat is needed works well.
Where do you get Soda? Is it Soda Ash?
@@charlesdeshler202 He's talking about pop. Coka-Cola, only the cheap stuff.
And it's easy to move into the garden when it's done! I like it!
Does it smell? Or is it a closed bag with no air. Anaerobic?
@@TheRainHarvester a few holes is ok but you want to keep the leaf matter moist.. Also lawn mower mulched leaves are much better.
Jean Pain did this many years ago. Thank you for showing people it works.
I read an old book about green houses in turn of the century N.Y. They dug a large pit in the end of giant greenhouses and filled it with horse manure, this would heat the house so much they had to vent daily to cool it down.
Do you remember the name of the book??
That is incredable! In Western NY this will work!
Thank you, Mr.Powell, for your wonderful ideas for helping to save my family money and keeping us warm in these hard economic times... thank you, and well done, sir, well done indeed. You are a real "American Super Hero" in my family's eyes in these hard financial times.
Well that helped me decide where to start my leaf compost pile. At the end of my greenhouse after I build it.
Thank you, your video has given me the answer to my question. I'm moving to a place that has trees over the greenhouse area and that makes solar out of reach, so this will work PERFECT. GREAT TIMLY VIDEO.
Man that's awesome I've been trying to find cheap ways to heat a greenhouse and I wondered about compost and was worried about the smell. I had low voltage heaters but did nothing and a ceramic 750 watt heater made it just tolerable during freeze but not enuff and killed the electric bill. My other idea was the dryer vent is close to my greenhouse project and I have a child so there are at least two loads of laundry done a day so I was gonna run a tub extension thru a port in greenhouse and recycle some of that hot hair which just would blow outside anyway
watch YT video of Ted Talks everything you know about composting is wrong,,, and you will see they make GREAT compost soil for any kind of growing. I allow every one to dump the leaves at my place. I compost them for heat, use some of it for next years garden and sell the leaves as compost for 75$ a cubic yard. It is enough heat to grow greens and herbs year round no heat. look up simple heat exchangers and go buck wild with it..LOL
meckleboy
That's the spirit we reuse the dryer duct as supplemental heat in winter but add an lent trap to it or you may risk a fire we have used a 5 gal. Bucket with couple inches of water in it to take out the lent.
City people have no idea about living off the grid! They have servants from South America to build their fires at home...would not understand using a water stove at all or the great smell of a barn!
Be careful, gas dryers produce carbon monoxide a poisonous gas. You Can use the heat off of an electric one though.
@@mike-ner6645 Actually it doesn't produce carbon monoxide. Think about a gas cooking range in millions of homes. Burning gasoline produces carbon monoxide. Burning charcoal produces carbon monoxide. Burning natural or lp gas does not.
absolutely love this idea. I have a small 10' x 10' greenhouse and an exterior heat system will make it so much better
I learnt something new today. Thank you!
WOW!
Here outside Colorado Springs, wondering
How to heat for the winter.
Will be building small aquaponics system in greenhouse next spring.
I was wondering how to heat it in the winter.
You, Sir, have solved that dilemma for me.
Thank you ever so much.
Hello Mr. Powell,thank you so much for sharing this Video.I been sharing since Long after having various ideas as far as building a green house and how to heat it without paying lots of Money,being I have low income right now.This is one of,if not the best helpful info I came across so far,again thank you and have a great day...Kenneth
Glad it gave you something to think about and I have a few ideas on how to build green houses too. some of my other videos are on such subjects check it out might find something else to consider
Great idea! I was thinking about putting a hot bed in the greenhouse but was trying to figure out a way not to compromise on space. This is fabulous!
I think this is a fantastic idea. I question though what was the inside temp of the greenhouse itself?
enough to grow greens and herbs year round with no heat
TrustNoOne JESUSisSATAN, moving the compost inside sacrifices limited interior space - that's what makes this video so cool: the compost is on the outside.
TrustNoOne JesusisSatan? BackAtYou YouisSatan.
Hindsight is 20/20! But your afterthought has provided many of us with forethought! And as I scrolled down, many others have given insight into how to improve upon what you have done. I really just want to say Thank You. You have done us all a valuable service by sharing this!
Keep pushing the envelope good job Van.
Sounds like a sensible solution and bonus is that it’s free, darned good idea.
Research Jean Pain, the french man who heated his entire house in the winter with compost piles! He also used the methane from them to run his stove and other things!
I've read about Jean Pain but I've never seen anyone successfully recreate what he claimed he could do. It's worth knowing that he had access to TONS of woodchip. I'm not sure how useful that is for everyday people. If you've seen anyone that has been successful can you link to it as I think it is a great idea if it works.
Michael Dean anyone can have access to tons of free wood chips unless they’re just super rural. There are tree trimming people all over most towns wishing they had someplace free to dump wood chips usually. Even websites where you signup to get chips dumped anytime they’re out with a load
@@Rangband1 I get a local tree surgeon to drop them with me from time to time. Jean Pain had massive, massive piles of them as far as I can tell. Anyhow, not seen it recreated effectively by anyone. The piles I've seen online are all too small and end up losing heat really quickly. Happy to be shown differently though. Have you had any success?
Michael Dean pile size definitely determines how long the heat lasts for sure. I’m working on doing a wood chip compost heated greenhouse, want to do a hot water heat setup as well but greenhouse first. Will let ya know how it goes 😁
No sparks please, don’t know the French for it
You just helped me solve my greenhouse planning issues. Large compost pile on the north side with pipes (Jean Pain method) with an opening for co2 and an oil burner to heat water for the minus 25c temps mid winter. Almost every video I've seen uses wood chips for compost. I never thought leaves produced that much heat. And I have acres of them. Thanks
Really liked this one man. Good ideas!
I read an article about someone having a trench built by having some bricks stacked about a foot high the length of the greenhouse. They used horse manure and raised worms in this. Covered by pallets. So,Four foot wide ruffly. This is how they warmed their greenhouse for the winter. From the posts below some thought has to go into not getting things so hot that it lights on fire. I remember picking up grass clipping in a garbage bag and it is really hot to the touch.
I remember reading about a similar technique. They would put a row or a pile of leaves/manure in the middle of greenhouses over a 100 years ago in Bulgaria to extend the growing season for tomatoes and when the decomposition was done they would spread the now new fertilizer around for the next season.I guess it would have provided co2 as well but they probably didnt know about that back then
There others doing the same thing in 4 Times the size of you green house, they are making the compost heap inside the green house with animal poop and all the green waste. This one lady has 3 walls up to hip height, so she can wheel borrow straight in. When she is done she slots her boards in and waters it down. Then places cloth over the top. Having great results with good heat for the winter. She doesn't have much smell, as the brown and green waste is well balanced. If I find her clip I'll let you know. Great stuff Van keep learning and sharing.
I like the idea of having coiled hose in the center of the pile, with both ends sitting in the greenhouse, with a solar fan on one end moving air through the hose. I wonder if you would get more heat by putting one cup of beer and one cup of ammonia mixed into the dry leaves to act as a starter for the decomposition. I also wonder if you may have better luck by keeping the leaves loosely tarped (allows oxygen to get in) to keep the heat in, and any precipitation out.
I know its an old comment.. I'd leave the tarp off so the leaves get wet and encourage decomposition which creates heat. Luckily the leaves themselves act as an insulator, and if needed more leaves can be added to the pile. But if tarping loosely the sides could be done, I would just leave the top open.
I love your statement about decomposing leaves being a long slow burn, and yielding more heat than actual burning would! This reminds me of Buckminster Fuller saying that smoke from a wood fire is sunlight unwinding from the log.
Just build a greenhouse up attached to your house and heat your house while growing your veggis. FULL CIRCLE
william tell I have a corner sunny spot to build green house attached to 2 sides of house on the outside tho I was thinking am. Wood stove but I like his idea, I could take the widow out n put a door to connect but then my kitchen will be cold if I shared the heat.
namie schowgurow just don't use the who window, use 1/3 OF the window . It's not like you have to have the same temperature of your house with the greenhouse.
That, good sir is freaking genius!! I've been running a compost bin for years and noticed how warm it is but this is next level stuff! Thanks!!
farmers have had bales start on fire for no reason.
I have seen round bales burning in a field because they where to damp when they where baled in fall, just a heads up.
Love it! I will try this combined with some heat pipes with either water or air.
Stay humble and grateful for the ability to be a lifelong student - if you admit you don't know, it keeps you curious and open to all the ways you could learn what you need to.
Hi Van Powell,I wonder what the temps are in the center, measured with a compost thermometer for minimal disturbance. Still though 80+ temps, free heat, just because you piled it up against your building that's a smart move. Also if the temps fall off, add some fresh material to your pile and give it a good stir, temps will rebound. Looks like you'll have a summer redesign job on your green house. Might be tricky to pull off the same with a plastic hoop house style green house. Just have to be cautious of the plastic walls, maybe adding a couple of sheets of landscape fabric will be enough cushion. I wonder if you could draw out more heat by placing a perforated drain pipe into the center of the compost pile, just a thought. Cheers,Bill
+William “Bill” Walter - Thanks for suggesting this video, I'll totally have to keep this in mind when I build my greenhouse!
many ways to do it bill. any simple heat exchanger set up will do it. you should look at my green house design videos too might be some useful things in there
The Victorian greenhouses in the U.K. were warmed in a similar method but using horse manure and piping. There was a lot of manure back then ! Good idea for a video. 👍 Thank you 🙏
So did he ever say what the inside air temp was?
No; I wondered the same thing...
@@michaelbonacasa4242 yes he took 2 reading 80 & 90 deg, at end where leaves are, I would assume it would be close to that all over as he mentioned the north wall was insulated... BRILLIANT idea
@@janinasimons8533 Those were the temps inside the compost; I think the original question (and what I also wondered) is what is the ambient temperature in the greenhouse (and what the temp was outside; that may have been mentioned, I don't recall). In any event, it is a really cool consideration and makes me wonder how it could be implemented practically (i.e. in a home) and in a way that wouldn't look/feel like living under a compost heap?
@@michaelbonacasa4242 TU, I thought I saw , but I guess I didnt see him put the thermostat into the compost... hope he answers the question? would be interesting.
thanks for correcting me :)
@@janinasimons8533 No worries; as I mentioned, the video had me thinking how one could do this practically and attractively as a built-in composting heater and what the particulars of benefit-to-cost might be (i.e. how could I stop the heat exchange in summer but continue to compost?). Another video showed a couple coiling tubing inside a compost pile to heat water for their home, which is also clever, and could add a 2nd purpose and benefit to the solution. In another video about "rapid" composting, the videographer said they could achieve internal temps of 170-190˚F by creating the right conditions! All very interesting stuff, thanks for the great discussion :)
I love people's ingenuity, and this is great! With the things that are going on in the world at present, and especially with reports that there could be global food shortages, we need all the help we can get. Thank you for sharing this with us! Greeting from UK!
These things can catch fire ! They do produce CO2, and other gases. If you want to research this, search agricultural sources for key word "silage". Also use keyword phrase "composting manure". The tricky things to manage will moisture content, density of packing down the pile, odor, heat production, and managing particle size(chopping it up).
Duke Makedo - "They do produce CO2, and other gases. "
Al Gore would not like that. OTOH I thing Van Powell's vegetables and plants would like it very much.
1 wheel drive: Yep, but recognize that if the greenhouse is nearly airtight, you can die from the gases. I am a farmer. Farmers have died in silos(composting buildings). If it were me, I wouldn't compost inside a greenhouse. Build a trench silo, and run coils of tubing thru it, if you want to gather it's heat. Be prepared for stink and seepage.
Yeah, one of the more tricky gasses that are created by decomposition of cellulose is methane, which is highly flammable. If the greenhouse is that airtight it could go boom next time there is a spark of any kind. Some type of an O2 level sensor might be a good idea
Cap the pile with wood chips and charcoal created in a wood stove through pirolisis. It will absorb outgassing including methane and odors. Whenever you notice and odor add more charcoal. This is also a great way to add biochar to your finished compost. If you properly ventilate your pile, you should have a minimum of odors. Try perforated pipe at the bottom of the composting material. I would not compost inside a greenhouse, attach a pile surrounded on three sides by straw bales. Cover with a sheet rigid foam and tarp everything. Good luck.
So true, the Methane gas produced will have you thinking twice about filling your greenhouse with this directly.
Best to lay coiled pipe in the leaves like a makeshift heat exchanger and only allow fresh air into the greenhouse via the pipe.
Move the leaves from the side of the greenhouse and make a sealed container or wrap the cage in a pond liner to make a composter.
Thanks for sharing! The beauty of exploration is that the best and biggest discoveries are found hiding in mistakes!! "What's not" gives "what's what" the unmistakable shininess that endlessly pulls us forward into greater and greater things! There is no right way! Or, rather, they're ALL right ways, when the "right way" is forward. We might stall, thinking we know things and making more "mistakes", but there's no going back!
If you use horse manure and leaves you could create a sauna. I've actually seen horse manure combust into flames through its own heat
You're not Kidding... Horse manure will heat and get HOT buddy boy !!! Be careful !
Iain O'halloran That's hot sh)t
Manure mixed with sraw and dryed is used as a handy solid fuel in many countrys.
Wait a minute ... really?
Buddy of mine had a compost pile start smoking late one afternoon. He had been stoking it with kitchen scraps, fish guts and a ton of grass clippings and leaves for weeks. If he hadn't put on a lot of green stuff on top recently it probably would have continued to flames. He had to soak it down with a hose for an hour before it stopped smoking.
Well done! Thanks to you I now know how to heat my greenhouse and clean up the neighbourhood at the same time! Thank you!
You take temperature samples of the leaf pile. But what is the temperature inside the green house?
hellesmunich
This has to be one of the most valuable videos I’ve seen about greenhouse heat. Thanks for sharing. Also I enjoy reading the comments.
You’ve earned a subscriber!
Not bad for a country boy! Makes total sense, but since Big Utility can't meter it and charge you for it they'll probably find a way to make it illegal to do that sort of thing, just like the MF's in Florida made it illegal to capture and retain rain water because you weren't using the city utility which is now Required for you to be hooked up to city and county energy barrons,,,
Not true, conspiracy guy. Florida actually encourages rainwater collection to ease the burden on municipal systems, and many municipalities offer rebates and other incentives to offset the cost of storage tanks, pumps, filters etc. You could have googled it before posting your comment.
Awesome, thanks for the discovery! am I freezing here in my home which has 0 insulation! we raked up millions of leaves and bagged them to be picked up by the leaf men! just to think we could have insulated part of the house and been much warmer naturally! I will never forget this video! thanks!
could be a fire hazard is the ambient temp increases on spring keeps up update beecarefull
German Almonacid ignition temps of wood is over 400+ °F His readings didnt get above 100°
Do not go too far, spontaneus combustion is a problem if leaves are not dry.
Barn fires typically occur when hay bales get wet, and being tightly bundled
Compost can catch fire at 175 degrees but I've found it rarely wants to get over 164 degrees.
bullshit. aerobic decomposition requires AIR. The tighter a bale is bundled, the less possible space there is for air to be. That's the purpose of baling it in the first place, to replicate the environment of the hay stack (wherein hay was stacked vertically, so the pressure on the lower portion from the weight of the hay above it, would create an anerobic environment and preserve the hay.
Great idea. Pilling leaves on north wall is also a great idea. Rocket stove is still good for backup or burning items that don’t compost well on super cold nights
We just stumbled on the truth.
Every fall, all the leaves fall and release all that CO2, global warming found! (lolololol)
Well done.
The key thing you pointed out was getting heat from the decomposing leaves without adding carbon to the air which would contribute to climate change. Wonderful job!
Also, when i build my greenhouse, this will serve as my heat and some of my soul.
I like the concept. QUESTIONS: It’s been 4 years since you made this video. I would like to see a video update.
1). Do you still use this method?
2). Did the pile of leaves continue to heat your greenhouse all through the winter?
3). Did you have to do anything to the pile to keep it in the active heat composting phase?
4). What zone are you in? What works in one area might not work in colder areas.
I look forward to seeing either an update to this video or answers to my questions. Thank you.
Excellent questions! I wonder whether the lack of response is because he didn't read the comments or whether his idea didn't work as well in the longer term as he hoped.
@@johnbowers8270 😊👍
I think you're great! What an idea at once so simple and powerful! Thank you for sharing this great thought and example of harnessing this readily available and plentiful heat source. Hoping to build a simple home soon, and will certainly use this great idea you've shown us. God bless you and best wishes. You have what so many lack: common sense and resourcefulness.
And its 24 hours. Low maintenance free and maybe even profitable. If not usable compost.
Thank you for the knowledge, I will use it and pass it on to my family who all have green houses. Your selflessness in sharing will help more that you know.