The Ronan Point Tower Disaster 1968 | Plainly Difficult Documentary
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
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On the 16th May 1968 a small Gas explosion caused Ronan Point Apartment Block to Collapse....
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CHAPTERS:
00:00 Intro
01:01 Background
03:41 Ronan Point
09:37 The Disaster
11:40 The Cause
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The graphic "birth" of Newham was rather creepy 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Read this as it happened. Yuck
I read this before seeing it... now I know
It made my day !
I saw it and came looking for this comment 😭
@@TheSoonToBePurgedJackMeHoff55 right after seeing it I paused the video to come here !
John, As someone who works in construction, I thought I’d let you know a bit more detail. There’s about 1,500 LPS buildings still in use in the UK. 3-12 PSI is an insanely low psi to cause a collapse. Minimum you’d have 30PSI in a car tyre. But this “explosion” was no where near that pressure. When the more detailed analysis was done on the building, it was found that the wall panels was not in contact with the floor slabs creating a perfect void for fire to spread as well as all the weight of the building above being on the pins, rather than spread evenly over the wall panel.
And for the record, the company I work for will never do any work on LPS buildings, as we recognise that they all need to be flattened.
Just incase anyone is wondering, 3psi may not seem like a lot, but multiply it by the surface area of the wall inside and you get 10000~ lbs of total force pushing on that wall. Obligatory, im not in construction, just an engineering student
Do you retire soon?
@@danielclarke7975 I'm not sure how to calculate this because maths and physics isn't my strong suit, but why would you use the entire surface area of the wall?
@@contra1124 Because pressure is expressed by the force that it exerts on all of the walls of the containing vessel. In this example, that force is 3 lbs per square inch (psi) exerted on every wall in the room (the containing vessel) as well as the floor, ceiling and absolutely everything within it, by the expanded gas/air mixture when it combusts. At the point of combustion, the air in the room will heat up rapidly, causing it to expand and with nowhere to go, create the pressure in the room. When the wall ruptures, the pressure is quickly released to an area of low pressure (now, the outside of the building) and the direction and pressure of the released gases are the cause of the lady being thrown across the room. All of this happens in a few milliseconds, so you can see how such devastation can be caused by just a few pounds of pressure.
@@danielclarke7975 The total force doesn't say much by itself, it is how the force is distributed among the joints what really matters. For example, one could divide the force by the wall perimeter (where it is attached to the rest of the construction) to estimate the force per unit of the length.
Very interesting, as a 7 year old kid I watched the block being built from another tower block ( Pattison point, Fife Rd) about a mile away. Whilst having my breakfast every morning I could see the worker climbing to the top of the crane used to lift the sections. The block went up so quickly you could see 2 or 3 levels appear overnight. I can now see why. I also remember the day it collapsed, I thought it was thunder and lighting, I was still in bed so I just pulled the blanket over my head..... just a child hood memory.
It’s a good thing you didn’t have to see that…
Kudos to Webb for insisting on a forensic disassembly of Ronan Point. The situation was much worse than anyone could have anticipated at the time.
Generally, buildings are constructed with a safety factor of 10. The engineers and architects calculate the largest loads they expect the building to have to withstand. Then design it so it can withstand 10x that load. So there's considerable margin for error for things like shoddy construction. Unfortunately, I think this large safety margin actually contributes to shoddy construction, as the builders know they can get away with cutting lots of corners.
@@solandri69
No, it's a generation thing. Boomers used to live in a time where huge amounts of civil servants just sat around for 35 years doing the same (the tiniest towns employed their own architects, who then had nothing to do most of the time). So builders' architects and civil servant architects got to know eachother way too well.
It resulted in rampant nepotism and really shoddy records and standards because 'trust me bro! have any of my buildings ever collapsed in the 20 years we've been doing this together?'
I've had parts of buildings demolished for lesser infractions than replacing concrete with newspapers. Such things come in only two categories "official" and "GTFO do it again"
@@nvelsen1975 “boomers”,what’s wrong with using a phrase that intelligent people use like “older generation”,you’ve just shown what a bigoted w@nker you are,probably jealous of the success and wealth of the boomer generation who have everything you want and more
Just happy it all came down smoothly and didn't collapse while they slowly tore it apart.
@@solandri69 That's too bad. You just can't trust your fellow man. I'd a been skeptical of the engineers let alone the construction workers putting rubbish where concrete was supposed to be.
I got scared at the mention of "no need for skilled labor" what can possibly go wrong...
I can understand the need for it at the time, at least. It’s one thing to not use skilled labor due to costs, but in this case, there was a severe shortage of skilled labor, so there weren’t exactly other options on that front.
That said, there should have been _somebody_ on-site during construction just to make sure that everyone followed the instructions properly. Replacing in-situ concrete with newspaper…
Especially combined with the potential cost savings!
Even trained builders are often nothing more than overpaid peasants. I'm a draftsman and have seen them do the most stupid things. The idea of getting unskilled people who would probably struggle with a child's jigsaw puzzle to piece together a 22 storey tower is thinking that only a council could come up with.
@@Wooargh
That’s why we have supervisors.
Technically not an issue, as long as the work is thoroughly inspected at each stage
You raised an excellent point about Ronan Point Tower likely not being able to withstand the 1987 Great Storm (I've see a documentary or two on that one): the building would've failed catastrophically during the peak of the storm and led to a disastrous loss of life. Good thing indeed that it was demolished when it was or Ronan Point would probably now be remembered as the key event of the '87 storm.
thank you!
Dont mention the year to any other Gen Z.
And from a post 2000 person, I think I can understand how powerful the '87 Great Storm would be against this, if a small stove explosion destroyed an entire section.
The building was restored to original condition after the 1968 collapse, rebuilt (the panels still being in production). The block, along with the 8 other identical to it, withstood the 1987 storm perfectly fine. Ronan Point was demolished in 1988, and the other 8, followed suit in 1990-1991. This demolition had more of a political dimension than it had a structural one, though the bad image associated with the collapse, was the reason why Ronan Point was demolished first.
@@reinatakagawa I read that Ronan point was demolished in 1986.
@@reinatakagawa It was demolished in 1986 about one year before the 1987 storm.
I wonder how many people Sam Webb saved - Not just in this tower block by making sure it was evacuated, but by the knock-on effects of them finding the shoddy work done on this one.
the years of wallpaper trends is probably holding them together!
He went above and beyond, and did his job properly. Everyone should work like that, and we wouldn't have half the disasters!
My grandmother lived in a block of flats almost identical to Ronan Point, in Birmingham, from the 1960s until she died in 1991. The flats were only demolished after the milennium. After Ronan Point collapsed, the block of flats my grandmother lived in was checked and supposedly was fine (although the gas supply was supposed to be removed). It wasn't fine, and the gas supply was never removed - gas cookers were still standard in everyone's kitchens. I remember the block rocking scarily in high winds, and once Birmingham City Council finally decided to demolish the building they found many of the same issues in situ that Ronan Point had suffered with, especially floors not being bonded sufficiently to walls. How the flats lasted as long as they did was some sort of miracle.
Watching this while sitting on the 9th floor inside one of the tower blocks built in mid 60's. Hello new phobia.
Sorry
Tower blocks are built in different ways. Not all are large panel construction as Ronan Point was.
A phobia of your own home. I wonder what you'd call that? 🤔
7 months later. Are you still OK? I'm guessing and hoping yes. People die tripping off kerbs every day, no point worrying. Isn't life funny?
@@Buster_Piles Still alive.
15:10 you can see the blackened scorch marks on the outside of Ronan point in the pic.
In 1984 after the vacating and rehousing of residents they used the empty building to perform a test on how fire affected such structures, they found that fire spread and started engulfing the place so fast and severely that they cancelled the experiment as there was a high risk of the heat and fire severely weakening it and possibly falling and damaging neighbouring properties
I’m a carpenter who works on remodels of wood construction residential homes in the US, particularly in a location where regulatory inspection is either nonexistent or poor at best. It is *shocking*, the things I’ve seen done in something as simple as a wooden house. I am not one to scare easily, yet I have found myself in the bowels of homes that genuinely frighten me because I can’t understand how the home hadn’t collapsed yet.
Of course it becomes my job to fix the problem, which I do. But it should be said, too often structures are under-built. Personally, I think overbuilding should be standard practice, but alas, economics demands the cheapest turd that can be polished enough to peddle to some sucker.
"Economics demands the cheapest turd that can be polished enough to peddle to some sucker."
Thank you for phrasings that so perfectly! An apt description for many things here, unfortunately.
Building in redundant safety features to compensate for another failing however if corners have been cut on most of the features this does not work.
Well versed.
Well, thanks for sharing. I’ll look forward to hearing about all these houses collapsing on Fox News. I won’t hold my breath though.
This is what happens when legal bribery of politicians is allowed
Packing critical load-barring joints with rubbish isn't just "unskilled", it's straight up stupid. Regardless of what the fools they hired to do the work did, someone onsite during the construction had to inspect and write off on their work.
Yeah. It's like some hired contractors went into an elementary school and asked the kids how to fix the problem and the teacher wasn't allowed to have any say😂. So dumb. Happy that few people died as a result of such awful thought. And may those who died rest in peace. Man.. how stupid could they be...
@@mom23js It's more like a teacher passed kids who gave crayon doodles for exam answers. Foremen and others had to inspect and sign off on this work knowing no concrete was being used.
Any builder doing shit like this should be charged with first degree murder.
@@Adamant_Consternation First degree murder has fairly strict definitions. Legally, it's at worse manslaughter. Someone should have been charged though, as there definitely should have been people overseeing the work who would have been legally responsible for approving it. If there somehow wasn't proper oversight, then that comes down on those who were legally responsible for approving unsupervised construction. Stuff like that gets swept under the rug far too easily, far too often.
There was probably a thin coating of concrete over the rubbish, so it looked alright from the outside.
Still, have you seen footage of some new Chinese high-rises? Those things are crumbling as the first residents move in. Thousands of people have started refusing to pay mortgages, as their housing is worthless (or nonexistent, that's another issue).
I was scared of heights before I subscribed to your channel. Now I'm at new levels of terror
Rising the stakes
Now you know WHY. ;)
I lived for 36 years in a tower block in Bristol and I was unhappy the entire time I was in there - and so was my wife. Ours was by no means the worst of the blocks but I was glad to move out. We were only on the 12th floor but it rocked so muck that the water in my fish tank rocked when even slight winds were blowing. There were cracks everywhere and I was waiting for it to collapse at any time. We had a drug dealer living opposite us and she threatened me with a firearm because I had complained about her stereo being played loudly at 4 o'clock in the morning. Eventually after twice being raided by the police and the firearms being taken away - on both occasions - she was evicted. I feel sorry for anyone forced to live in a high rise block. It is a punishment.
Half of your problem was the nature of the people living there - not the fact that it was high rise or built poorly.
@@alanpatterson2384 so, then the other half was the stuff he describes?
Why even speak?
@@alanpatterson2384 too many people living too closely together is an inherent problem of high-rise blocks
@@alanpatterson2384 The majority of the problem in public housing is the animals that are allowed to make the lives of decent people a living hell.
wow this is really cool you have personal experience with this story
Don't forget, the concrete was made with sand dredged from the sea and supplied by the Hoveringham corporation; sea sand is full of salt, which corrodes the iron re-bars used in reinforced concrete; result, collapse inevitable!
It has been found that rebars in general weeken structures rather than increase their strength.
@@lucyterrier7905 where did you find this information?
@@user-wv9uj5wp2u It's not info, it's fantasy.
@@michaeldowson6988 hahah I might have already known the answer, many people on here speak utter tripe.
Reminds me of the High-rise of Pécs ("Magasház"), a 25 floor building in Hungary that was completed in 1976 but had to be evacuated in 1989. Steel rods under tension gave the building its stability, but the material used to fill the gaps corroded these rods over time due to a construction error. Various plans were made to fix and repurpose it, but none of these came to fruition. The building was left unoccupied for 27 years, it was finally demolished in 2016, there's a timelapse of the process on UA-cam called "Ghost house of Pécs".
Isn't it Pécs having the oldest university in Europe?
Along with splendid wine and gorgeous women 🤗
The description of how the community areas of new highrise complexes fostered crime brought up memories of A CLOCKWORK ORANGE and the rundown Brutalist council flats where the families of Alex and his droogs lived.
Very true!
The thing is, they were hardly run-down. In fact they were practically brand new at the time it was filmed. It's just hard to conceive that what we now recognize as such a bleak and depressing environment was actually by design.
Thamesmead, a great idea on Paper but sadly money problems meant the Transport Links that were planned got kicked into the long grass and are still not there despite the recent extension of the Railways to Barking Riverside.
Meanwhile, I was busy thinking of the "Come to Daddy" music video.
Newman, Jane Jacobs and other conservative thinkers (along with their British outgrowths like Alice Coleman, the Prince Charleses and Scrotuns dreaming of a pastiche traditionalism) are responsible for the delusional ideas like "defensible space" and other concepts to try to explain the deterioriation; but their ideas are just as foolish as those post-war reformers who, though they had good intentions unlike the latter followers, fancied that a rebuilding of the built environment would itself, automatically, improve the lives of the populace at large. The panel-built tower blocks sold to private developers in Preston when the council decided to privatise them, became fashionable "luxury apartments"--the social situation is not a product of the building themselves in their abstract, but of the greater societal contexts around them, and the lives of the residents and forces to which they are subjected. A common story in Britain, repeated across the country, was a brief flourishing when they were new, for the first few years, up to a decade or more depending, until the marginalisation of the residents, their growing disarray, poverty, unemployment and drug-use, causing the buildings to cater to increasingly residualised populations with an ever declining attention to maintenance, fuelling a social fear, resentment and medial hostility, leading up to their maligned demolitions.
I like the quote in the newspaper article: "Blaming Le Corbusier for Ronan Point would be like blaming Mozart for Muzak".
Accurate.
I currently live in a flat that has the legacy of Ronan Point, in that although originally fitted for for gas, it has now been disconnected and the pipes capped off. I understand that an inspection carried out in another borough on a similar block found similar faults. So the story goes, the Borough engineer took some worthies who control the purse strings up to an upper storey where residents had complained of tremors and swaying in high winds. He pulled away a skirting panel, and invited the worthies to put there hands into the void revealed and tell him what they could feel.
'Nothing' they all replied. 'What's the problem?'
'Well' says the Borough engineer 'That void should be backfilled with concrete to stop the wall and floor coming apart...'
The borough engineer followed behind them as they all swiftly made for the lift. The next day, urgent re-housing of the residents and demolition was approved.
I’m surprised that more high rise structures have not failed. With all the shady practices that are involved in construction it really is amazing these structures still stand.
I actually like high-rise apartments and wish I'd had more opportunities to live in one funny enough.
That so few of them fail is why overall critics of modernity tend to latch onto and focus on the few that have. What’s usually left out of the picture is the fact that buildings tend to fail owing to rampant cost-cutting both in construction and maintenance, and not to any particular style or height. Look to the recent high-rise collapse in the USA in Florida, and it turns out it was built cheaply and quickly to capitalize on a deregulated building environment during a 1980s bubble in the housing market-“Throw it up and grab the money, quick, while no one cares how we build it, yet we can still sell it for sky-high prices!”-and then the management company tasked with keeping the sucker standing _knew_ of the structural problems, but kept putting off repairs so it could pocket more money and its CEO could buy more Italian loafers, jet-skis, and sparkly watches. 🎵 _It’s the economic system that’s at fault, whether people want to hear the tune or not!_ 🎶 😗
when they near 100 years they will
@@danopticon How old are you actually? What's the issue with an entire economic system just because greed and corruption is found in some cases?
Are entire US buildings and housing crumbling?
Did you travel or even live in the gorgeous Communist left over countries?
Try that and be back..
Not only that. From this video I understand there were other towers that looked exactly like Ronan Point. Were they inspected more thoroughly?
Despite the horrifing tragedies that have taken place in history and explained through this channel. Your excellent videos delight me at every opportunity during my day to day work week. Please keep up the good work!
Thank you!
Reminds me a bit of what happened to a "panelák" in Bratislava at Hostinského estate. Built in 1963, it also suffered a gas explosion. It literally threw out the side panel of the kitchen while on the other side one panel blew into the elevator shaft. The building had 12 floors (including ground floor) and was quickly repaired. Since the explosion, the affected elevator was running faster than the other one, as it was more modern. But it was more often broken and not operating as well. I lived in the house for 15 years. I knew about the incident, but considered the house to be safe. The house still stands and is is use.
Now that's quality when you get a straight-through a hole and the house still stands, and people still complain about those "commie blocks". They may not be the straightest, but they'll stand longer than many of the modern houses
I was born in Czechoslovakia and I live in Czechia. There are probably several milion people living in paneláks across our two countries. Those buildings are usually ugly as sin even with later colourful insulation and paint but it's hard to argue their space and cost efficiency.
1977 an earthquake hit bulgaria. a 18-story block or panelak cracked external panel on 3 floor level. they replaced the panel. still standing.
I have not heard of any Eastern plate buildings collapsing. They seem to take a lot of effort to tear down too. I guess we just had a better method?
@@constancestrawn1303 It was probably a good quality control of the panels before they were sent to the building site. My mother worked on QC in a factory that built panels like these. If you did not check things properly you risked being fired without much fuss. Sometimes whole lots were rejected for being just a couple of millimeters over/under the required thresholds. It is essential that these panels fit together perfectly.
A few years ago a gas explosion took out three panels and a support beam from the ground floor of one of these blocks. The block had six floors and was deemed unsafe for repairs. A demolition team installed explosives on the ground floor and pushed the button. What happened? The ground floor was pulverized and the building came down about 1.5 meters. The upper walls did not even crack. In the end they had to take it apart panel by panel since the quantity of explosives needed was far larger than what they could use inside a city.
They were designed to be as simple to construct as possible, yet workers still managed to completely fail at their jobs. Quite impressive really.
Fun fact - I grew up in a high rise building literally down the road from the site of Ronan Point, so this disaster has always not been far from my mind.
Another fun fact, her stove actually survived the explosion and she took it with her to her next house.
The stove's owner survived?!
@@appleandaria6947 Yep! The explosion blew her across the room and away from the collapsing wall.
so the woman and the stove both survived but the concrete slabs to hold up the building didnt, says alot about how badly they were built.
Damn, that stove was more durable than the building.
The Honda Point disaster might be something you would be interested in making a video on; distrust of new technology and a natural disaster nearly sank a whole squadron of Us Navy destroyers.
nearly? what a shame... 🙄
Awesome thanks for the suggestion!
When Japan sank a bunch of destroyers from 6000 miles away
@@SudrianTales I mean, the American navigation equipment was incorrect as a result of the great Kanto earthquake in Japan.
Drachinifel has a good video on this. Not sure if it's up John's alley, as it's less disaster and more incompetence.
One thing I remember hearing about this incident is that as the design of the tower block was from Scandinavia it was *never* *ever* meant to have mains gas. So either all electric or with a centralised heating plant.
Similar sad excuses for buildings have begun to be demolished in Denmark in the last 10 years, otherwise they will collapse on their own.
The problem is that loosing one or more walls in an an room should not take down the room above. Gas explosions makes just this more likely.
Using enough force and you will collapse it as in 9/11 but small explosions should just blow out walls.
Not completly true, construction type Larsen-Nielsen was taking into account gas. Almost "paneláks" in Prague built using Larsen-Nielsen design have gas, including all version starting from 4 floors up to 12 floors.
@@magnemoe1 Unfortunately, in this type of preconstructed housing, the joints between the individual panels are the weakest part. So there's much less capacity to transfer load from one wall panel to horizontally adjacent wall panels. Most of the load transfer is to panels underneath (i.e. gravity). And if one wall panel is blown out, instead of the above wall panel transferring its load to the wall panels beside it (which still have panels underneath them), the panel just collapse down into the space with the missing panel. Causing a cascade failure of all panels above the one that originally failed.
And for things like gas explosions you actually want to design parts of the wall to fail more easily, not build them stronger. The predesignated failure spot produces a vent for the pressure to escape before it can build up enough to blow out the rest of the panel. This is commonly done for aircraft. In 2009 there was a depressurization accident aboard Southwest Airlines 2294. But rather than ripping the plane apart, all that happened was a small panel designed to be much weaker than the rest of the plane's skin blew out to release the pressurized air. This panel was designed with additional reinforcement around it, so the loss of the panel would not compromise the aircraft's overall structure. And aside from the oxygen masks being deployed and there being a hole in the ceiling, the plane landed normally.
@@magnemoe1
That's why the later late 1960's and 1970's flat designs have a wooden-asbestos paneling in the front and back, and always at least one wall of the kitchen. If there's a gas explosion, those panels get blown off well before the concrete framing does.
Well, in theory anyway. With the sloppy way the boomers built things there've been plenty of examples of such places collapsing anyway because of shoddy concrete work.
Damned fine video. As a forensic architect, these building failure videos are fascinating with the mistakes on mistakes that cause tragedies. Keep up the good work!
I look forward to all of your videos, especially the ones on disasters. I love how you present them in a way that is factual and to the point without too much fluff or filler. I'd MUCH rather watch your videos on these topics than something on conventional TV where they take an hour to try and show half as much information as you do in 10-15 minutes!
This is why I am a patreon. You said it better than I could have!
"Patron"
You make a good point there. Most disaster tv docus consist of repeating every part after an ad break.
John, that graphic of the birth stopped my lunch and cup of tea... thankfully your videos keep me hooked and I was able to finish my food!
Glad to hear it!
@@PlainlyDifficult I can imagine you giggling at everyones reactions that point in the video 😆
Hmm... considering most humans arrive into the world like this... I saw no problem. Though Id like to know how and why she was pregnant with an entire town.
I grew up in an extended tower block, more of a wall of houses than a spire. The building had 14 floors above ground level, I grew up on the 12th. I'm very glad the building I lived in was built properly. Even that high up, there was little swaying due to the way the building was set up to be edge-on into the statistically dominant wind direction during storms.
swaying is actually a good thing, if it’s too rigid it’ll collapse
@@JohnDoe-yq9ml Not always but yeah in some, others are crappy 4--10 story buildings that were made in the same style as the London apartments and rented out for cheap in some areas. Depends on the area.
@@JohnDoe-yq9ml whats up with the racism here dude
@@seraphemcamille I don't think that not swaying would be a reason for a structural failure - more about the strength of materials, how they elongate under stress and how much they do so, and none of the common materials used to build high-rises are really stiff enough to handle the loads they encounter without deflection.
Just like as shown in this video a lot of movement can be traced back to where and how components are joined together, this is true for anything in nature or man made and here in this video the way the walls and floors are joined together: well one might guess that replacing concrete and steel with wadded up newspaper was probably a bad decision!
Some buildings have super sophisticated anti sway mechanisms often located on the top floors but my hazy memory is trying to tell me there are other approaches. It is neat stuff to learn about and see.
@@genjitsu7448 I do think you may be wrong. Not swaying at all needs enormous forces, whereas some swaying does not. Look at a washing line and think about the force needed to get it perfectly straight … and stay straight even when you hang a wet bedsheet in the middle.
My Dad could never understand why you had buildings 150 / 200 years old, standing solid and strong, ready for another 150/200 years, but our generation couldn't build anything that'd stay up for more than 20 years.
bless him but your dad was an idealist. it frustrates me too that we're willing to tolerate it & the justifications the ruling class vomit out. they've always seen our lives as cheap. sadly, we now appear to agree.
❤️🩹 ✊
I'm not disrespecting him. I am the same. I just see why and that's not any comfort.
✌️
@@john-ic5pz True, after WW2, we had thousands of people who'd had their homes destroyed and needed housing. I hate tower blocks, but if we've got to have them there's no reason why they can't be built properly.
the tower block collapse that always sticks out in my mind was one I read about in this book about how people lived in the fifties and sixties featuring interviews from people who were all ages during those decades, it was a fascinating read and I'm most annoyed at my state library for presumably removing it from circulation. it was about how in a storm one side of a tower block collapsed, and the interview was with a woman who - funnily enough - had only moved in the day prior with her husband because they'd been married that day. I don't remember much else about it but it really does stick out to me from that book almost a decade on
Those Victorian terraces were just as good as producing criminals as the tower block.
I guess the alleys and backyard access were similar to the lifts, stairwells and covered walkways for people getting upto no good
@@purplepixie274 I can imagine!
I didn't know a skyscraper could collapse so easily. You must be an expert to build such colossal structures.
Florida? Two years, ago!
Look up Chinese tower block collapses. They collapse all the time due to shit commie construction and corruption. And they flat out fall over or collapse into themselves. This Ronan point collapse was, thankfully, only partial.
You must be an expert for them to not come down !
@@arnaudt3935 and an even greater expert to have three fall down the exact same way within their very own footprint too. the very same day. 😏
I can kind of understand how it fell down, but the 150mm of sway in the wind scares the crap out of me!
Great research, John--thank you! I first learned about Ronan Point from a documentary I saw on TV over two decades ago (Why Buildings Collapse, which aired on Channel 4 in the UK and under the title Collapse on the Discovery Channel in the USA). I subsequently bought the companion book to that documentary (Collapse: When Buildings Fall Down, by Phillip Wearne). I remember a quote from Chapter 7 of that book: _"Infinitely better workmanship has gone into the dismantling of Ronan Point than in erecting it,"_ said Fred Jones, who was the chair of Newham's Housing Committee in 1986, when the deconstruction of that tower finally began.
These blocks are good for 3 things: they're a good size, they have built in storage, many come with balconies.
The bad is everything else. The blocks are freezing cold and full of damp and black mould. Due to the era in which they were built they are also full of asbestos. The electric heating is expensive and inefficient with leaky doors, windows and extractor fans. The local councils have not kept up with maintenance or upgrades so the blocks are in a right state with collapsing masonry, regular repair issues. Plus, it only takes one or two bad neighbours to completely destroy the community and give the block a bad reputation.
Source: I'm a Scottish council tenant living in one of these monstrosities.
EDIT: There are currently over 24,000 people/families waiting on social housing in Edinburgh alone. It's a complete sh*tshow.
Yeah but if we built any houses, there would be.... * boomers shivering* ....change, of any kind. Can't have anything change now can we? That's something for those silly young people who know nothing because they're less than 55 years old.
@@nvelsen1975 *57. The youngest boomers are 57, going on 58
I came from a high rise block, the red road flats in Glasgow. Was born in them in 2005. Though I don’t remember them. (We were moved to a new house by the council as they were getting demolished) apparently before we moved it wasn’t all too bad because most people had moved it by then anyway, so people do play a factor. But when they were first built in the late 60s, they were apparently great for many. A massive underground bingo hall was built that could hold 1000 people was built just for the red road residents. And shops as well. But apparently by the 80s they were not properly looked after and left to rot. Drugs and violence took over. Which even involved one of the blocks being set ablaze, which my mother watched from the balcony of her block when she was 10. Unfortunately many tower blocks were not properly managed and left this way. Many tower blocks are now torn down in Glasgow. As our city used them the most. But the ones that remain have been refurbed, updated and looked after. And seem to be working out. To me, this shows tower blocks had the potential to work, but a lot of the time councils do not want to look after them. I’ve always wondered what life was like in the tower blocks I came from. My mother constantly praises them and wishes she could live there again. The red road flats even have a song, a movie and novel made after them. Truly wish I had memories of them. I’m very sorry to hear you have to live in such unhappy conditions. Here in Glasgow, its the same. So many people are waiting on a council house it’s honestly ridiculous.
@@adamd6648
A lot of old people especially women have a more positive impression because they were part of the last batch of society that these sorts of blocks were built around, in the archaic ideas about society the architects had.
The large common spaces were meant for housewives who, banned or discouraged from work, would hang out there and socialise like was common in say the 1920's. So it gave them a large social network and the galleries were safer and more cozy than 19th century houses where you'd hang out in alleys instead.
Such a house that I used to own had a 2nd front door only so housewives could take the laundry out and hang it on the communal gallery.
These days everybody hangs it indoors because you go to work and can't get it back in if it rains, or use dryers.
At their time of construction it was already a house built today, for the society of the past, let alone these days....
Another excellent documentary. Ronan Point is a building failure that is not widely known outside of Britian, and is one that caught my interest many years ago. At one point, I watched a feature about the disaster that, in addition to discussing the construction shortcuts taken, noted how the design of the Nielsen Large Panel System likely didn't consider the effects that even a moderate gas explosion would have on the structure, because at the time gas heat and appliances weren't used in Danish buildings.
Concrete looks ok in dryer continental climates but soon becomes damp and moldy in the humid climate of Britain
One thing that I've learned from Plainly_D's videos; If you survive the morning, you'll survive the day
Unbelievable, I was born in 1968, and was active in construction from 2005 on. I saw a lot, but I’m happy I gave all of my clients a safe home.
Absolute Kudos to John of plainly difficult. He does an absolutely detailed analytical search of what were the causes of the issues he covers. In this case, think of all the details drawings and information he passes along about the type of construction, when it was used and how frequently it was employed. He has an absolutely incredible mind and digs into the details of any matter that he covers. It just flows over you as he goes a long, you don't really realize just how much research he did and the graphics and photographs he adds to his presentation. Please give me a thumbs up if you agree with me that John does an absolutely fantastic job with these videos. Perhaps he'll read it and appreciate the fact that his fans are very appreciative of the effort he puts in these videos.
PEACE
My semi detached was built for my Nan in 1947 for..... £2,000 ! It is solid. If you want to put a screw up, you'll need a very strong hammer drill with a 20 stone bloke leaning on it. The walls have blunted masonry drills before
Solid for nan
My semi is the same age, ex-council, and I have the same issue. Nary a level shelf in sight, and don't talk to me about curtain poles!
The only walls not made apparently of solid granite are those made of clay pots which are even less possible to get a secure fixing into.
£2000 was pricy back then.
@@vicstick75 I know the feeling ! 🤣🤣
@@Jonathan_Doe_ It was. It took years but it's all paid for
LMAO @3:40 for the unnecessarily crude graphics!!!! haha I LOVE IT
Thank you!
I lived in the sister block Gannon Point from 1971-1985, all the flats on the visible long side were 3 x 1 bedroom flats. On the opposite long side of the building were 2 x 2 bedroom flats. The lounge which had a window on the same side and was the very corner. On the grey short side there is a square window and that was a bedroom and you can see 6 bedrooms actually failed, the wiredest thing is the kitchen on the 19th floor flat is completely intact, it’s located behind the balcony like it was in all the flats and none of the deciding walls between the kitchens and lounges collapsed either. You make the point that Ronan Point was taken down in 1986 but was the first to be taken down and only one taken down for a number of years, however the other 9 blocks were also taken down and not demolished. A few families were still living in the other blocks in 1986. They stood derelict for a long tie and all weren’t finally taken down until 1990-91 long after the great storm so they did survive. Would Ronan have survived who knows, all I can say is the same faults discovered in Ronan were also present in the other blocks even the ones built after Ronan Point blew up and they survived so it might have, from experience trust me I probably wouldn’t like to have been in the during the storm, they did sway to the point of nausea!
Monty Python's "Architect Sketch" was broadcast in 1970. I imagine which ever Pythons who wrote that skit must have had this incident in mind.
New Regulation: If the woman lighting the stove survives the explosion, the building should survive the explosion.
There's no way in hell anyone would make me live in such a tower block, just too many of them known to be shoddily built, poorly maintained, and as Grenfell highlighted, were utterly dangerous in the event of fire (especially with the cladding they'd used), though one "positive" from this I guess, they put an outright ban on taking in and using any gas appliances in tower blocks, whether natural or LPG, just in case of another "Ronan Point incident", because the councils knew damned well they were (and still are) all susceptible to collapsing...
Back when it was built it was likely an improvement over most alternatives
Greenfield was dangerous because of the cladding. it would’ve been an unremarkable fire without it.
Unfortunately, for a lot of us- ie the poorest- are forced to live in these blocks. They are not great and Grenfell put everyone on edge, even for those of us who have no cladding on the building.
@@superj8502 very much debatable, in terms of newly created"social" housing you're likely correct, but had retrofitting been more in vogue it's arguable the previous, much higher, standards of quality would result in the overall quality being far greater.
You only need to look at the increasing decline in building standards for new builds to look at just how BD things have gotten. The idea being that they will just demolish and build a new structure, usually in less than the average lifespan of a person these days. It's certainly not a horrible means of repeated rinsing of contracts and fundings from local authorities.
If I recall correctly, the pinnacle of late Gothic Architecture was around 4 - 6 stories in height capacity. First, it's important because at the time our own lifting methods were out-performed by the architects in design, since trying to reach that height (by any tech' available) dramatically increased accidents and fatalities in construction. Second, it would be the advent of nearly modern engineering science before a truly significant new height was even physically possible.
That means that even today, ANY tower over 10 stories (30-ish m) really is a Modern Marvel of Engineering. Follows through logically, that even the SLIGHTEST deviations in construction (methods, materials, or quality/tolerances) absolutely must be checked AND PASSED by a qualified Engineer or returned to "as planned" state before it's safe to use.
When governments or councils or corporations follow greed or cheap-out, there are corners cut, and you NEVER WIN ARGUMENTS WITH ENGINEERS... You might get by VERY temporarily, but that short term smirk WILL get wiped out in a much larger "human cost" when you inevitably LOSE. ;o)
I witnessed this, I was an apprentice boiler maker working for a company called Clyde Wharf Ltd. attatched to Tate & Lyle. We heard the boom and looked up and watched the collapse. A few bargehands wanted to go over to the site, but our foreman stopped them saying it might be dangerous leave it to the fire bridgade.
Your channel is fantastic!
Despite loving the English culture and having studied it at university, I am always learning new things thanks to you!
Oh, and your videos are nicely done, gotta love your faceless characters saying "Balls!" after having dropped a nuclear warhead 😁
Now I see what inspired the Monty Python Architect's Sketch and the Great (Something) who's buildings stayed up only if you believe in them.
El Mystico? Puts up buildings by hypnosis? That was my thought.
There seems to be a new shortage of skilled labor; combined with increasingly disconnected management, this may lead to a whole new era of things that fall down for reasons that are glaringly obvious in hindsight.
My 92 year old Mother likes your presentations . She is a Frank Lloyd Wright fan , except for Falling Water, which is falling in the water except for rescue steel beams . More Imperial Hotel and Johnson and Johnson building . I want Robbie house in Chicago in my dreams .
UK's recent history isn't taught over here in the states so I hadn't heard of this before. Finally, that Monty Python episode where the mason and the abattoir designer compete to design a budget flat makes more sense.
Not specifically relevant, but if anyone is interested, the tower blocks shown at 2:06 are in Seaton, Aberdeen, UK, built in the 50's & 60's (I believe) and are all still standing, although major repairs were done around 2000-2010 on most of them.
The ones at 2:53 are also Aberdeen (Mounthooly junction) - possibly one of the locations where 'Tetris' was filmed, certainly of that area and type.
Always looking forward for a PD video
As a Civil Engineer, this excellent. You do great summaries
So basically, architect Sam Webb is a national hero for his work to uncover the issues, no doubt saving many lives.
According to google, he died in 2022 but I'm glad to see he got an MBE in 2021 for Services to Architecture. That's an MBE I can definitely approve of!👍
Housing a problem in 1948, and still a problem in 2022. Aren't politicians brilliant.
Enough of that.
Love your content it is always a good watch and informative. Thankyou.
If I remember correctly the episode of Endeavour covering this it was material failure, salt contaminated sand in the concrete mix weakening the rebar and concrete
I remember staying in a hotel at Myrtle Beach, SC that was built in a similar way. Very old, 6 stories, I was on the 5th. Basically a house of cards made from concrete slabs. From the outside you could see everywhere the concrete met at right angles, it was horribly cracked and broken out, and they had some lame pieces of metal bolted on to reinforce it. I noticed this while the weather was nice.
A hurricane came in that night. I could feel the whole building move every time the wind blew. Something was off in the elevator shaft, the car shook, and made horrible squealing sounds. It clearly was never inspected like they are supposed to. $26/night...worth it? You decide!
The whole thing was a strange operation, it looked like they were just running it into the ground until they couldn't use it anymore. It was so old they still used physical brass keys in 2018!
Had a pretty sweet view though...
Why should brass key's be an issue? Still happily used all over Europe while it is good and reliable quality.
@@OmmerSyssel Any hotel worth staying in has had plastic key card access for the last 20+ years. The only places you find physical keys are some ratty old deathtrap that hasn't been updated for many decades.
@@OmmerSyssel Um, no. I haven't stayed in a hotel with a brass key since the 90s.
I was a plumbing and heating engineer, started work in the early 60s, fitted many gas water heaters, they had union nuts on the gas and water supplies, they were brass, quite heavy gauge, when the new multi point gas water heaters came along in the seventies on fitting them I had a lot of union nuts on the gas supply fail through faulty machining and being of a light gauge type of alloy
That Sam Webb fella sure saved a lot of lives. What a legend.
Nothing I love more at 6am than a PD upload!
With them coffee and the sunrise..
11pm Saturday here in Queensland, Australia.....still perfect timing lol
Westcoast gangster 209! Lol
It's the breakfast of champions 💪🏻
@@VincentNajger1
It always is. Cheers!! 🥂
I love how nonchalant at-home gas explosions are referred to. I'd rather just not have methane flowing through pipes in my wall thank you.
Hey John,
Hope you recovered from the plague!
Almost began worrying about you.
Nice to hear your voice and see your documentation again!
I watched the Grenfell fire video just before this one. I remember watching it on the news at the time. I missed Ronan point, but I was just a kid then, and wasn't as interested in such things back then, unless it happened closer to home. I do remember watching one of the manned space flights when I was even younger. Don't remember if it was one of the moon landings though. We were visiting one of my aunts, and several of us kids were on the living room floor watching in black & white. I've always been somewhat of a history buff. What amazes me is that I myself have lived through a number of historic events. Several wars, the space race, plane hijackings, assassinations, famous speeches, the fall of the wall and the end of the Soviet Union, and many tech advances. The fall of the wall has a personal meaning for me, as I still have relatives in Poland. The tech advances also affect me as I make use of some of them.
Thanks for your posts! They are very interesting!
the first ever PD video i watched was about the aberfan disaster and since then ive come back every week solid content and always something to learn keep it up PD
I was 7yrs old. We got out of assembly in primary school. I was standing by my desk about to sit down and burst into tears. Crying about the black mountain killing the children. I was unconsolable. Teacher got me out 9f class. Next door neighbors husband called home to wife to tell her what had happened. Radio. She went next door to my mother. Headmaster called my mother, come and get her! She's having a meltdown. She gathered my baby brother, pram and up to school with her. Headmaster said might as well get your other two so you don't gave to come back
later. So the 5 of us get home. Still can't stop crying. Everyone sober as a judge walking home. We had just got our first tv. She turns it on hoping for kids program to distract me bbc? Nothing but the disaster on both channels. See? Says I. Told you! Fitful sleep but sent back to school to 'get on with it'. Still get fierce upset to this day. Bawling watching it here in 2022. Living in California now. Can't explain it. No relation to anyone involved. But we had visited Wales several times for holidays before it happened and after. Lovely place.
It’s impressive Webb was able to accomplish all of that. I suppose having good reason to believe hundreds if not thousands of lives are at risk is a strong motivation to keep working
very sad for disaster :(
Plainly Difficult is, by a long way, my favourite channel in this genre, keep up the great work John 👍 thank you
I especially enjoy the story's about radiological events
Just wanted to let you know how much I enjoy your channel. I appreciate the work and detail you put into each vid.
3:44 wow i was NOT expecting that edit
This reminds me of Clockwork Orange.
It was inspired by brutalist architecture
@@PlainlyDifficultI have read somewhere that "A Clockwork Orange" was filmed in Aylesbury.
I love the fact that a large number of complex interlocking components are considered "low skill" here. I mean, what could possibly go wrong if any of those are just a bit misaligned? Although, honestly, I can see a lot of problems with un-reinforced concrete slabs being used everywhere. That's just asking for problems with things like load shear or other forms of load-bearing faults over time. And I'm not even an architect or structural engineer!
IKEA mentality
Also, in 1995 there was a highly publicised gas explosion in one of the apartment blocks in Gdańsk, northern Poland; a disgruntled locator sabotaged the gas main to destroy his flat so he could claim the insurance, but the resulting blast pushed the walls of the ground level outwards, causing the rest of the building to come crashing down (akin to how World Trade Center fell in 2001), crushing the first and second floor, killing 22 people.
However, the designer felt that such a high building (11 floors, ground floor included) should have some extra reinforcements to protect it from winds (Gdańsk is a coastal city after all, and storms are not uncommon) and other acts of nature, and thus the lower half of the building was strengthened with extra reinforced concrete layers (this was known as "Solution MBY-110Z"). When the gas exploded, the upper levels remained relatively intact, allowing people from the upper floors to evacuate; nevertheless, because the building was now dangerously unstable, it was demolished by military engineers after it was determined that no one alive could be found.
If you search "1995 Gdansk gas explosion" on UA-cam, you should be able to find a couple of videos from the demolition.
Ale co trzeba też zauważyć: konstrukcja bloku w Gdańsku (o tyle co znalazłem na szybko i co pamiętam) to nie była typowa "wielka płyta", a takie budynki, właśnie przez zastosowane wzmocnienia w postaci wieńców, jest trwalsza. W tamtym czasie stawiano dużo budynków które nie były wielką płytą, o czym dziś już nie pamiętamy. Bloki z płyt takie jak Ronan Point czy zniszczone na łódzkiej Retkinii w 1982-83 bloki budowane Systemem Szczecińskim zazwyczaj składają się właśnie "jak domek z kart". Chociaż warto też podkreślić, że konstruktorzy Systemu Szczecińskiego również zastosowali "namiastkę" wieńca, ponieważ wszystkie płyty w górnej części mają dodatkowe wzmocnienia.
Stuffed with newspapers…..you have got to be kidding me (*headdesk*)
Sadly true!
it seems everytime i hear about a building in England it's always something negative like the Grenfell Tower fire or Walkie Talkie. Is there any chance you could cover the Walkie Talkie? I know it hasnt caused a diaster but it's so insane.
Is the walkie talkie the one that burns everything in it's path because of the sun's rays?
@@jenniferk9242 yep melts cars parked where it focuses the sun's rays thanks to its concave architecture and reflective window coatings
Yes we had a habit of poor building, particularly from the 60s and 1970s. Tbh lots of new buildings are of poor quality even today. Quess it always comes down to cost.
has somebody tried to use that heat to replace russian gas for this Winter or is that too soon? 😏
Thanks for the suggestion!
Sam Webb was one of my tutors when I was studying architecture in the 80s. I used to have a small piece of Ronan Point that I won in an auction at the School of Architecture but no idea where it is now!!
Its funny when you've watched so many Plainly Difficult videos that you can see the exact point of failure in the structure during the exposition.
Also, the reveal at 10:00 blew me away!
Amazing that the forensic demolition went forward. Crumbling the evidence seems much more the modern style.
The company that made the Grenfell cladding had a mysterious fire 2 weeks after the disaster, destroying all their records. I hope there is a copy somewhere, but I doubt it. Or there might be another mysterious fire.
Love these videos! Also, they come out at the perfect time for me!!
Thank you!
I enjoyed this little documentary. Not simply for the education but the production choices. No overwhelming music or sound effects during the video proper. I like that choice. I felt like I was attending a proper lecture, not watching something for entertainment.
This was Great and very well done! Happened on here by mistake but liked. Subbed. Very organized. Great background. Thank you!
This subject was part of the curriculum when I trained to be a corgie registered gas engineer.
Thanks John,
I should have said well done, really well presented documentary, you are probably far too young to remember their was a documentary about the construction on BBC, if the old gray cells remember correctly, they found enough news print to fill several skips, really it was a wonder it stood at all after the explosion.
While your on the subject of Newham can you do one about the massive Disaster that is commonly known as Newham council.........................
Another great video. I've been watching your back catalogue with interest. I love the format of your videos: get to the point, highlight the major failings and pay respect to those who raised concerns or lost lives with no waffle.
im so proud of how much (well deserved!) attention your channel has gotten! 😌😌😌
It’s worrying that Taylor Woodrow, now Taylor Wimpey, are still building a large amount of houses in Britain
In Littleport in Cambridgeshire a load of houses were left unfinished for years, the timber frames for the roofs were just left exposed to the elements. Then suddenly they got tarted up and people moved in. Wonder how they fared in the big storms lately?
it depends also with wich material
Great video, but it left me with a question -- what if anything was ever done to prevent progressive collapse of the other building built to the same design by the same company?
Not a great deal sadly
@@PlainlyDifficult So what happened to the other building? Was it also evacuated and demolished?
Very good question. Over two decades ago, I saw a documentary on building collapses, and one of those featured was Ronan Point. According to that documentary, walls and floors in housing built using large panel systems were bolted together to account for the chance of future gas explosions, but that was about it. I imagine the other building would have received such a repair. It probably didn't solve the problem that still existed but almost no one knew about: the poorly-constructed joints.
We actually see this damage in 68,as wife from Canning Town,this collapse was from a gas explosion in a upper floor,the 3 blocks identical built had electric only after this terrible tragedy,about 1975 we lived in the same block next to Roman point,called Abraham’s point,which had steel bolts and nuts attached through the walls,with heavy double glazing and storage heaters we was on 14 floor,it was warm and cosy,But couldn’t wait to get away from tower blocks to be honest.didn’t like heights either.
I’m from Australia and this was one of the worst trends we copied from the British. For some reason despite having lots of land and a tiny population commission flats were built. It’s terrifying because the flats they built look identical to this one.
Sounding good man. Getting some Beneath a Steel Sky vibes from your descriptions of these late 60s tower blocks.
And what a shame that since then public building of social housing has ground to a halt … slowly, the decades have ground on and nobody wants to confront this strategic national issue. There’s no civilised wealthy society that can call itself that that can’t house its citizens in decently priced good quality houses. Which is why we’ve got properties averagely priced at getting on for *half a million* pounds in large swathes of SE England. It’s a disgrace.
I love some aspects of brutalism in architecture but god damn I hate those old tower buildings... And as stated on video, most of them where build between 60-80 by people that didnt care about any common sense or regulations, just make it quick cheap and cover any evidences of messing in concrete.
Very interesting as always , a retired friend of mine was on one the engineers to looked into the failure of the threaded nut on the gas joint that caused the gas leak
What a great video, and what a great personality you seem to have! I like the music too! This is the first time I have been to your channel and had to subscribe! Love to all!
These apartment buildings always remind me of where the parents of Alex lived in A Clockwork Orange. I don't think that was lost on Stanley Kubrick. Very brutalist. Very Soviet. And our elevated train path here in Honolulu is built from concrete cast pieces. It hasn't opened yet, and cracks are already being found.
That was filmed in Thamesmead, one of the especially bad government run housing projects
Who decided Honolulu needed a Monorail???
@@guardrailbiter
Anyone with more than two brain cells to rub together who thus realises you can't do it all by car?
@@nvelsen1975 Honolulu is not very big.
Monorail! monorail! monorail! ☺️
So did they go back and inspect the other high rises to ensure that they were structurally sound?
I believe some have been checked
@@PlainlyDifficult Most system built blocks in Greater London were checked and either strengthened, or had the gas supply removed. Some were missed and this came to light in a further round of inspections after Grenfell: The Ledbury Estate in Southwark and the Aintree Estate in Fulham were both found to be unsound. Both of these are Larsen-Nielsen.. From casual observation, the majority of surviving blocks are not LPS, but in situ concrete frames with either precast cladding, or brick infill.
The visual humour in this episode was absolutely hilarious!
Mate, great video. Really well researched. Keep up the great work 😊👍
Precast concrete panel buildings are strong when done right, cause precast panels can be casted in perfect conditions unlike normal on site cast where quality can change due to multiple factors.
Considering the housing crisis we're facing today, I think we need to look into bringing these back, but with smaller flats, modern design and materials, and as huge as we can possibly build them.
(Also each should have their own internal fire extinguishing system and some form of guards or policing.)
Re-migration to where no artificial heat is needed would solve Britains housing problems overnight.
@@erik_dk842 Yeah kick the English, Welsh, Irish and Scots out back to where they come from. Because everyone on these Islands are immigrants. Just some have been here longer than others.
I thought more about "vertical villages", 21 floors, with 10 "houses", and a shop at the bottom. Only the staircase would be shared, "garden gates" with locks would isolate the whole front veranda, with a more private balcony at the rear.
I say, as I live in a wood framed 1LDK in Japan. Brits would probably be running to the ECHR if they were even shown a place this small.
I thought more about "vertical villages", 21 floors, with 10 "houses", and a shop at the bottom. Only the staircase would be shared, "garden gates" with locks would isolate the whole front veranda, with a more private balcony at the rear.
I say, as I live in a wood framed 1LDK in Japan. Brits would probably be running to the ECHR if they were even shown a place this small.
@@worldcomicsreview354 Each flat would be like its own super safe prison? Better to deport the predators who don't have British great grandparents
Nice, detailed, & well researched video. Thank you.😊
There is a more general critical view of the British use of large panel systems in the 1960s in other Great British Housing Disaster”, an early Adam Curtis documentary from 1984.
At its very end, the documentary even mentions cladding and one official highlights the risk of fire as one reason to be very wary of various cladding systems, 33 years before the Grenfell Tower disaster.