Is Jimmy Page a Sloppy Guitarist?
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- Опубліковано 4 бер 2022
- Hello,
Welcome to first-time visitors! I am Carl Baldassarre, a composer, musicologist, and guitarist! If you already know me, welcome back!! I'm excited to share with you another video!
In this episode, I address the long-standing question, "Is Jimmy Page Sloppy?"
There are several layers to this question and the answer requires some nuance. In a nutshell, the answer is both Yes and, definitely, No. The answer depends on the difference between actual sloppiness and artistic expression perceived as sloppiness. Moreover, when there are moments of sloppiness, there are usually three categories:
1) being truly sloppy (due to bad nights or bad habits)
2) taking risks to push artistic boundaries and creativity
3) critics misinterpreting emotion and expression as sloppiness
To further my evaluation, I look into the following aspects and questions:
1) Quotes from Jimmy Page on his "technique".
2) Withering quotes from "art" critics
3) Recognition that sloppiness (however so defined) ONLY occurred during live performances and, furthermore, almost entirely during guitar solos!
4) Sloppiness in live performances was absolutely not pervasive. In fact, it almost NEVER occurred during the song, riffs, or rhythm parts.
5) Recognizing that Jimmy Page's studio performances were actually breathtaking displays of emotion and original technique on the whole. The only exception being a handful of exceedingly profound emotional moments which were left in the final mixes at the expense of the pursuit perfection. Thank goodness!
6) There is an uncanny analogy between Jimmy Page as a guitarist and the Impressionist painters of the 1880's.
7) Impressionism vs. Jimmy Pageism: Both were expressing emotion. Both broke from conventional figuration toward the abstraction. Both used techniques which were considered "ugly" (brush strokes & picking). Both were met with harsh criticism about being "sloppy". Both require the audience to perceive the whole of the art from a distance, whilst revealing true passion upon close inspection.
8) Illustrating Page's "impressionistic" solo picking technique on Heartbreaker which is the source of misunderstood labeling of sloppiness.
9) The real question should be "is emotion sloppy?"
10) We can debate the question of sloppiness, but there is certainly no debate on whether Jimmy Page is...an original! "The definition of originality is when a work of art is identifiable with its creator." (Carl Baldassarre)
You can find out more about me here:
carlbaldassarremusic.com/
And if you are interested here is a link to my Led Zeppelin Reveal Project:
ledzeppelinbybaldassarre.com/
#JimmyPage #CarlBaldassarre #LedZeppelin
I don't care about show off virtuoso playing, I care about the joy of music. Jimmy Page conjures so much music and melody from his playing, and I suspect that was his focus.
The folks who say he’s sloppy haven’t enjoyed the success he has. He knows every tuning there is . It’s insane the amount of musical knowledge he has.
@guy man men Just like everyone else in the 70s, whats the point- It has nothing to do with his playing!
Young girls and heroin were a focus too
@guy man men jimmy page is no different to anyone else at the time conjuring underage girls 😂
@guy man men You're really a simpleton.
Jimmy Page is one of the greatest composers of melodic and unforgettable guitar solos and riffs. Millions of people can remember his solos note for note.
UNDENIABLE TRUTH
Not to mention his acoustic playing. One of the greats.
The only thing Page composed is Hot Dog. For the rest, all he played were covers.
Millions of people remember his solo's. Only one doesn't: Jimmy himself
@@rejdrouin that's bullshit
His acoustic playing is a testament to his precision, but live they were a jam band, always reinventing and reimagining songs and Jimmy was improvising, letting the music flow through him.... it wasn't about being well rehearsed and perfect, it was about living in the moment. Even in the studio he often winged it on takes and was able to listen to them and keep ones that fit the song even if they had imperfections, being a perfectionist can hold a person back from reaching for the sky sometimes.
okay: that sounds fair enough...i'll allow it... haha~
[precision? isn't there a bass-for-that?]
cream jammmed and was never sloppy
zeppelin is good when they where in studio
Page laid down some simple, yet memorable riffs, played on some classic songs with a stellar band, but was an absolutely unabashed plagiarist, marring his legacy.
There were dozens of nontechnical (and many more technical-approach players) guitarists, even from his era, who may not have read music, but more skilled (hybrid picked, finger-picked, played slide) and infused passion and fire into their music, with much broader repertoires. It’s a long list.
Like Hendrix (who’s revered with so much hyperbole, repetitious “he’s the greatest that ever was, and will be”) Led Zepplin and Jimmy Page as well, simply don’t measure up to the legend status that their fans create.
His acoustic work on "I'm gonna leave you" was anything but precise. I'm stunned he left so many dead notes on the final cut. Really unprofessional.
I remember when the band Kiss were looking for replacements for Ace Frehley and Gene Simmons said they were seeing all these incredible fast & technical players who were amazing but had zero soul. Sometimes the magic happens when there are imperfections. Jimmy Page had that magic ability when playing live to go on adventures when playing. Maybe some see it as sloppy because your not hearing what was produced in studio. I love the live Page playing, it's always a wild ride that's also incredibly enjoyable. I've said before Pages playing was like trips into the musical wilderness of a song. If it's sloppy playing I say we need lots more sloppy players these days.
Amen
I already knew about this but one time I saw a video of a kid asking Robben Ford what was the craziest band that you've ever played with and he said he played on the Creatures Of The Night Kiss Record but never got any credit for it and was way more soulful than any of the Kiss members and blew them out of the water. Now he plays with soul and feeling.
He was sloppy in recordings. This man is a liar. I counted 7 mistakes in a single solo in a studio recording. Probably one of the worst solos i have ever heard on the radio. It was pathetic. "I deal in emotions" is a cheap ass cop out. Page was overrated.
It was definitely sloppy. Plenty of guitar players that can improvise and still sound like they're competent.
I agree his talent is endless but he is a bit sloppy to me. Sorry. I hear mistakes on LZ I but the entire band not just Page
It's kind of like asking if Vincent van Gogh was sloppy. Of course, and so was Jimi Hendrix. All iconic artists. Let's just say it didn't hurt them much.
It probably had a lot to do with drinking too much.
Pollock would have been a better analogy, but great point.
van Gogh is sloppy? Did you stick forks into your eyes? Jimi Hendrix was sloppy? "All iconic artists" are sloppy? Your thinking is sloppy.
@@vilyanaria9230 "Sloppy" is not a word that is any way accurate to describe Impressionist painting. Modernism didn't upset the academic establishment because it was "sloppy." And please point me to a piece of music where Jimi Hendrix plays wrong notes. Orchestral musicians can indeed be sloppy, especially when they're performing the work of a composer that they do not respect, e.g., John Cage. Cage has spoken about that. As for Jimmy Page, he himself has said that he allowed sloppy playing with obvious mistakes to be left on recordings. One must remember that Jimmy Page was on heroin for over 25 years. If you look at footage of Page playing at the 1983 Arms Benefit concert, he's completely stoned out of his brain, which very much accounts for his "loose, sloppy style." Robert Fripp, for example, can play very precisely and rigorously,, and he is also capable of wild, loose and free extemporizing when the music calls for it.
Just admit Jimmy was "pickin' his feet in Poughkeepsie" for 5 yrs....doing junk
The modern day guitar wizards (technicians) bore me to tears. Yes, they can rip across the fretboard at hyperspeed and play all the scales and modes without mistakes, but it all leaves me cold. It's like listening to a fantastic typist. Jimmy Page penned so many incredible songs AND produced the recordings. In his live solos, he had the guts to just go for it. He was playing spontaneously as opposed to the current ilk who play lines they've practiced a thousand times.
Alan Holdsworth and Frank Zappa.
I have to disagree. I was never impressed with Page. They wrote some good songs, but there is a reason this question is being asked, and it is because Page was a sloppy guitar player.
Agree. How many Allman Bros, Lynryd Skynyrd, ZZ Top, Creedence songs can you hum all day long? How many Steve Vai, Satriani, etc?
@@Rich-kp1eu I have to disagree with you, do play guitar? Jimmy page is great guitar player
@@nickefgen9219 I have played guitar for more than 40 years. Page may have had some good ideas, but he never bothered to put in the work to make it sound really good.
It was as if he listened to all of the B.S. people said about him, so effort was not needed.
Led Zeppelin wrote some good songs, but mainly Page was a mediocre guitar player.
Led Zeppelin is one of those bands that sounded good in the studio, but sucked live. Name a song where Page has the virtuosity you all keep saying he has
My band mates and I referred to Page as the King of Slop. Yes, when playing live, he could be sloppy as hell but when he slips into playing the intro to Since I've Been Loving You at The Garden in ´73, and he plays that entire song absolutely flawlessly, that is proof positive that Page was the best on Earth when he decided to be.
At that time all players in the rock scene were like that. Distortion wasn't in a place where it could mask picking. There was always a little hack in everyones playing.
that's why recording studios were invented: because so-called-live music sucks~ haha~
but seriously: isn't it remarkable, how much trash can be talk'd, that's all's that's possible and it means... well, whatever-you-say-it means, right? haha~
@@DMDvideo10 frack-all-that: y'can't beat the guitah gods: of course tony iommi puts those snobs-to-shame, so t'speak, haha....right up thru 1980 at least~
@@tinfoilhatter For me Iommi was the first heavy metal guitarist... The best guitarist from the seventys was EVH... Hands down...
@@DMDvideo10 well he's great, yeah, but in terms of songs, riffs, the art, man, eddie's great but luckily it's not a competition, because there's always someone better depending on how you listen... and where , no matter when... eddie was great but he really didn't have all that many songs or 'tricks' , anyway, most people are two-dimensional and clueless anyway so who cares what-we-all-say, haha
I saw Led Zeppelin in Baton Rouge, La back in 1977. Page definitely fumble fingered a hand full of notes. The average drunk and stoned fan back then would never notice it. I saw him again in 1986 with The Firm. His playing was absolute perfection.
People that give him crap about sloppiness dont understand the blues. He may have hit a rough patch with the heroin and alcohol but he got back on track with the Firm and when he played with the Black Crowes. Then when Page and Plant toured. He redeemed himself
I find that his sloppiness occurs when he’s playing simple pentatonic passages, but his technique is perfect on intricate acoustic passages. You never hear any mistakes on acoustic numbers, studio or live. When playing solos live, he’s stretching the limits of the pentatonic scales and his imagination. Sometimes his technique just can’t catch up, but he creates excitement. He orchestrates your emotions.
Well said !
Yes
Agree
He is INCREDIBLE acoustic player and this is I feel truly underrated. As far as his electric playing is concerned, are we talking sober or high Page? Definitely he struggled at times when under the influence (heroin, alcohol, or both). And he was definitely “experimental” live, especially during the days of arrogance and self-indulgence that was Led Zeppelin. Plant specifically asked him not to deviate from the studio solo for Stairway when they did it at the 02. I think also his tendency towards a “fat guitar” tone especially for live performance can be misunderstood as “sloppy” on solos.
@Brent An all acoustic album would be a perfect project for him at this stage…
I just assumed it was his style…I never thought of his playing as sloppy. His solo on “Since I’ve Been Loving You” is brilliant.
I studied classical guitar from age 9 until 16 and from then on dumped it for the energy and excitement of rock and roll. If you want precision - look at classical - if you want a reason to lose your shit and drown in excitement, then Mr Page and many others from his generation will be happy to provide. Sloppy? Pah... the electric guitarists around in the last few decades that are considered virtuosos bore the living daylights out of me. I'll take the sloppiness of rock and roll forever :)
Listen to the heartbreaker solo. There is no way around the obvious sloppiness but it is great and I wouldn’t change a single note.
The man is a national treasure. The tone, the riffs, the songs and the entire Led Zep package still blows my mind. Even the so called inaccurate solos had a vibe about it because he is a natural and meant to be who he is.
it's called ruckin'-row-for-a-reason, jeeves: because he does-it-with-ease~
I saw Zeppelin in ‘73, ‘75, ‘77……no one ever thought all of these concerts would be preserved on the internet to be studied to the depth they were. They just weren’t constructed to be fine works of art that the albums were. Just listened to Physical Graffiti again, what a treasure.
Wow you are so lucky… I would give anything to have seen them in their prime
Ten years gone off that album is the best song I’ve ever heard by them
Great analysis! And I'd much rather have Jimmy Page's "sloppy" style than be one of those technical wizards whose music you'd have to pay me to listen to.
Right. In the end, who sells more records, Steve Vai or Led Zeppelin?
exactly.....:-)
It’s not who sells more records . Garth Brooks sold more records than anyone for a while does that make him more talented or musically relevant ? Now Garth was a popular country artist but Jimmy Page Zeppelin? That’s like True Grit beating midnight cowboy for best picture of 1969 popular doesn’t equate to merit . Peace to all
I completely agree with you,
true
Impressionism is a musical movement as well, yet nobody would call Ravel or Satie “sloppy” because they’re deliberate about their art. They’re not just blasting the pentatonic scale off beat and off key as fast as they can.
Ritchie Blackmore talked about the perfection of Joe Satriani, which he admired but wasn't a big fan of, had similar slant on things, though slightly a different perspective. He said if you never play bad notes, never make mistakes, you are not reaching for the emotional highs that make music interesting. It's why he loved and was inspired by Hendrix and others that were always "searching" , "reaching" for something emotionally unique. I agree with this...it's why I don't mind hitting bad notes and not studying music that much 🤣 and yeah, occasional sloppiness.
Fun fact: you just described yngwie malmsteen
Yes and I think Blackmore was the best of this generation of guitarists
@@Soldano999 Hardly, he was polished and boring as fuck.
@@Soldano999 what? you just distinguished yourself as someone who needs to listen or read-it-again, jeeves
oops: there's no 'bad' notes, but only to 'hit' or rather 'play' appropriate notes/chords/passages/bits, and with no more, nor less force than necessary, is a matter of great deliberation and discipline that the pages, malmsteens, and the satrianis exemplify rather peerlessly and fearlessly, but seldom very carelessly, and occasionally vicariously _perhaps_ ...
I would describe his style as "choppy" rather than sloppy. There are so many guitarists who are very legato in their solos but page was more staccato and it always felt like he was playing on the edge. But unlike a choppy amateur, Page played so far in the pocket that it sounded huge. A very unique combination.
I only interjection is heartbreaker
He played like a train just barely riding the tracks about to derail at any moment and that is his appeal.
He just held it together playing at the edge of his limits while displaying an
Imagination with no barriers.
Vladimir Horowitz, a classical pianist, is my favorite musician of all time and LZ is my favorite band. You made me aware of some similarities between Page and Horowitz in their approach to their instruments. Horowitz said that the music was behind the notes, and his critics often accredited his success to his on-stage histrionics (going rapidly from from triple pianissimo to triple forte), which is funny because he was a stoic performer with terrible stage freight; the emotions were conveyed through his fingertips. Check out his recording of Liszt’s Hungarian Rhapsody No. 15, Rakoczi March. He pushes the piano to its sonic limits. Great stuff Carl! Your videos are the most articulate explanations of Zeppelin and Page’s style
His performance in Moscow is 1 of the all time greatest.
I've always associated Jimmy's playing with raw emotion, the guy is simply one of, or simply... the best at it.
Gilmour is another emotional player, but with him you would be hard pressed to find any sloppiness in his work, that is for sure. He is like a brain surgeon.
Yes I agree .. if Gilmore played the solo different there would be a riot.. most fans know every note in his solo.. & he gave them what they wanted. Jimmy was not that type of player & if you went to their concerts expecting a studio version, you would be disappointed.. so he’s more of an artist on stage & technician in the studio.
i would respectfully call gilmour less of a technician, and more of a, uh, specialist i guess: specialisin' in the easiest-of-techniques, but excellin' in these
Gilmour & page have totally different styles .. i find gilmour to be a much slower player
And I totally agree with that. It's sort of like the difference between Neil Peart and John Bonham or even or even Keith Moon. Neil was super precise and never seemed to hit a wrong drum. But Keith Moon especially was a wild man and wasn't too worried about precision ;-)
@@phpmaven Ah man… Peart to me.. may have been the best that ever was. RIP Neil.
Thanks for hitting the nail on the head with this video! You are not alone in this perspective. ❤👍🏻
It’s the sloppiness and wildness that makes him great. You have to ask yourself, how many memorable solos did great technicians like Satriani or Vai have? 🤷♂️
The other thing with Jimmy was that he didn’t hide behind a ton of gain in his signal. He mainly relied on volume and naturally overdrive. Consequently we can hear clearly every time his fingers aren’t perfectly in the fret or maybe his right and left hand are a nano second off from each other. Many of the shredder type players smooth those things out with a ton of gain and compression. With Jimmy you can hear all the mechanics of his playing like his pick clicking against the strings or his fingers sliding. For instance on the studio Since I’ve Been Loving You, you can almost hear the sound of his Volume knob being turned as he starts to really dig in on that intro part.
They hide behind Distortion. Gain is more towards feedback. Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp. It's not meant to distort mistakes. He didn't rely on any natural overdrive. I agree with the rest of your comment. He does make it raw and crisp because he mostly played out of the front pickup(treble). That was his style. The way he mixed fast and slow picking and the crisp clean sound made it very alluring to listen to. A high clean sound. He also used stereo effect but the signals were minimal much of the time
@@joefox9765 Yeah I didn’t want to get too technical. Almost every Distortion pedal or Lead channel on an amp has a knob called Gain. That’s the sound I’m referring to. That super fuzzed out distortion and if you have a Compressor pedal and you crank that Sustain knob it makes it gets even smoother.
@@djfrank68 👍
The only thing I can think you are saying there is a big difference at blurring a mistake live verse in the studio. Many live recordings have been edited. Your statement didn't make much sense. If they are sloppy players or beginners then yeah use a bunch of distortion and delay and gain and whatever else 🤪
I honestly think Hendricks was doing this while playing live early on. Experimented with all kinds of things The Star-Spangled Banner was just amazing. What creativity and Mastery of it all. He is not the only one of course. His style was just unique
@@djfrank68 I'll tell you something about effects. Like the rest of us, Eric Johnson said he was getting lost and experimenting with so many tones and effects that he lost his original tone that made him. So he went back to his roots. The very beginning of his original tone that put him over the top and he hasn't deviated sense. This was a span of 35 years. Something to think about
@@joefox9765 "Compression is a sound effect like taking analog and making it sound like the line is going out of a tube amp". Huh? what the hell are you on about there? You have no idea what you are talking about when it comes to audio compression...
Please don't talk out your ass if you are going to call other people wrong.
Great analysis of Pages 'sloppiness'. It's interesting you mentioned Heartbreaker. To me, that 'sloppy' playing was masterful and added wonderful texture to the solo. There are many well trained technicians, but sometimes the purity and cleanliness just don't cut it. It's too nice and too clean.
they might also say the same thing of robin trower, provin' again, that they know-not of what-they-speak, man
That heartbreaker solo is cringe
I am no guitarist and not able to understand how difficult Page's guitar technique, but I could feel the emotion from his guitar even when I was just a kid listening to Since I've Been Loving You (recording version) or No Quarter Live in MSG 1973. Thanks for the video.
His No Quarter solo in TSRTS is one of all time favorites
Even on Jimmy's worst night he could burn any guitar player alive. He is so far ahead of any guitar player on the planet that it is just ridiculous. 🙋
In Toronto they use to play the Song Remain The Same Movie every Saturday , you had a few tokes watch it on a massive screen they even had large speakers in the theater so it made you feel that you were at the show, watching Jimmy the passion sweat he was on a different planet, Ritchie Blackmore made a comment about Hendrix always searching for notes, with your video I get it , the imperfection is actually the real art, its from the soul, you have players that are perfect but it's the players that were imperfect and beautiful are the most influential musicians in music, so just play the damn guitar who knows where it will lead you, be creative and just be yourself,
Yup. Used to go. They Also played Hendrix film and Floyd’s Live at Pompeii
@@edpas007 I think it was called Danforth Music Hall seen also AC/DC Let their be Rock, great times great days,hey
@@canadianintheukbrian hi, the Danforth was live music , if my memory serves correct. The films were shown at the Roxy theatre, which also was on Danforth Avenue. 😊. Great times
@@edpas007 bit before me in the 70's Rocky Horror Picture show, use to see people dress up , Toronto was great back then, great memories hey
I saw some impressionist paintings years ago and going from 5 feet and stepping back to 15 feet it made the canvas create depth and emotion... live it was incredible, I was transported and transfixed it was just beautiful. I think your analogy is spot on! Thank you for another great video
Hi Carl - very lucid! That Heartbreaker solo still gets me, as it did when it was first released. You could also say that Jimmy is an Expressionist too, in the sense that he's pulling out stuff from deep inside and sending it out to the world.
Carl, this is an excellent dose of perspective & it really hits home. Thank you.
A journalist once asked Herbie Hancock if he felt he was at the peak of his technique, & he said
"I don't have time to practice my technique. Sure, I could be a better technical player, but I spend all my time at the keyboard learning & composing music."
Love your content and perspective, Carl. You’re a helluva musician. And I think you’re spot on with this comparison. Masterful video! Thank you.
Such an interesting video. Content and delivery is fantastic. I think this one would make Jimmy smile!
Led Zeppelin remains my all time favorite band since discovering music around 1970 (age11). After over-indulging in Zep for most of my life, I had to give them a rest for the last 15 years. Watching your videos has me revisiting all their albums once again (as are my neighbors!).
As a life long Led Zep fan I believe Jimmy Page’s prime was from 69-75. After that time frame his addictions really started to affect his performances. His style of play was his own because he was self taught and with his work in sessions and having to adapt to different genres of music it made him become the player we have come to know. IMO in his prime he was the best in the world because his raw emotion, feel and improvisation was second to none. He was a writer, arranger, producer, performer, and pioneer into using different forms of music and melding them into new things we hadn’t heard before. To me he is a musical genius and when you have someone who has that in them they can at times spiral out of control and become self destructive as he did. After the 75 tour he did have flashes of brilliance with Zep but his addictions really started to show, he looked emaciated and unkept at times. After Zep he was in the Firm which let’s be honest was ok and had its moments but again his addictions were really bad during this period. His solo stuff was ok nothing to really brag about and the Page/ Plant stuff was more a nostalgia tour then anything and his tone and play were ok. If you really want to understand or hear someone teetering on the edge of there talents you’d have to listen to the live stuff from 69-75 and hear the progression of a player and a band forming into a juggernaut. The improvisation in the band during those years were incredible and you will never hear one song played the same way ever again after it was played on a particular night.
Tom, I too am a huge fan of Jimmy Page and Led Zeppelin, and I think your comment is absolutely spot-on. And while the music Jimmy created is incredible, I often wonder what wondrous work he might have produced later in life had he avoided drug addiction.
Very astute comment.
your right there had he been like plant and jones he could have carried on into is early 70s doing great things but the drugs and bozze have done him in as a creative artist true is best years were from 66 to 1975 when he was truely focused
@@roywatson8133 And yet, Presence from 76 had brilliant guitar work. Just amazing.
yes but the album was recorded in late 1975 @@dimitrisparaschakis3280
he is not sloppy, technical guitarists create an illusion that guitar must be play like them. Ears can hear the difference emotion between technique. Emotions always win. That's how music works.
Jimmy is all about the emotion.
It can be sloppy and emotional and brilliant all at the same time. That’s Jimmy
If Jimmy Page is sloppy, then I enjoy the sloppiness. I love when the notes bleed together. It’s grinding and brutal. I love it. It’s like the difference between someone cutting sheets of metal cleanly and the sound of metal being torn apart in an accident. The sound of the accident, when the metal starts making a high pitched scream. And it’s very satisfying.
We must also remember that Page had his guitar slung as low as any guitar player ever has had their guitar in that position. Access for both his left and right hand were insane. I believe from 73 to 77 he had it super low. Excellent and spot on commentary on this subject of Page. Your understanding of Page’s guitar playing is insightful. Thanks Carl
You’re exactly right. It was slung so low in from 73 until 77. Especially 1977! He was almost tripping over it lol . ✌️
This. right. here.
Really thought this was the exact point we reached decades ago. His session work/studio portfolio was always top notch professional. It's significance was known then as much as it is now.
Live, he gave himself space to express, and did he ever, wearing that LP like the most badass gunslinger.
Man, guitar players are such a bunch of overcritical egomaniacs. I hate them.
@@outonthetiles and god damn did he look cool doing it.
No kidding, man strap your guitar on the way Page played, add you favorite chemical enhancement, then play something, and tape it for later.
To quote Zappa’s commentary: wheedly-wheeeee…. wheedly-wheeeeee…. sorry, but what really sets the performers apart is those who crush it live. Page rarely did so after about 1971. He was too much bout the low-slung LesPaul, which IMO looked silly, and prancing around with Plant when he should have been playing the damn guitar. I’ll take Jeff Beck or Ritchie Blackmore over Page any day when it comes to live performances from that era
I've often heard the moniker ''tight but loose'' applied to his style of playing and I feel that it fits perfectly.
And to you Carl, sir, you did a great job explaining on how the way Jimmy Page played may it be sloppy or not. I hope you make a video on how David Crosby plays his guitar the way does with all those different tunings. At least sort of tribute video in his memory. Thank you.
Hi Carl, another great video! So glad you tackled this subject; often Jimmy's critics will use the word sloppy when describing his live playing. They expect a clean rehearsed "just like it sounds on the album" concert, like Rush live. But Led Zeppelin live is where the magic occurs, all the great risk taking and improvisation, like you said taking chances, stretching the song to new heights. Listen to Stairway to Heaven live or No Quarter live, my 2 favorite versions live are in one concert from 1975, Seattle, March 21st. Great examples of what you are saying. Did you get my prior links ok to this concert? I hope you enjoy it, happy listening!
For me his "sloppy" solos in "Since I've Been Loving You", "D'Yer Mak'er", "Tangerine" let alone "The Song Remains The Same" easily worth ALL of the technically perfect , but mindless and soulless metal solos put together. And i've always regarded LZ impressionism.
Yeah. SINCE I'VE BEEN LOVING YOU at the Madison Square Garden, that solo...OH my God...That "sloppines" no one ever will play nearly as good as that !!!
That performance of Since I've Been Loving You is an absolute ride. You feel spent by the last note. I think that's where the camera pans to a single girl in the crowd and she's like "wowwwwwww". She sums it up exactly.
Meh alot of slop n repetition...
@@chickentwisties2298 wash your ears
@@zelejazz Do not feed the trolls mate. I love Jimmy Page's "sloppiness" as well - it makes the music a lot rawer and more expressive.
Well put. Thank you for this.
I always thought that the timing issues of live performances was linked to stage moniters, or lack thereof, as it relates to the sound delay caused by pedal or other effects that weren't in sync with those moniters. I experienced this issue playing large venues where it becomes difficult to know if you're hearing what the audiance hears or the instruments & timing on the stage. ie. It's very easy to fall out of time when hearing too much delayed after-effect sound. Cheers!
I love the fact that Page and Zeppelin were big fans of improvising and trying to keep things fresh instead of stale. Did it always work? No, but when it did it was absolute magic. The Song Remains the Same dvd in MSG is absolutely electric and Page is completely on fire during. If you want note for note perfection, you can listen to their records. Improvising and changing things up live adds so much to the excitement and live experience. I’ve seen bands live that play their music 100% note for note which is nice and they’re talented for doing so, but the concerts were kind of boring. I was just like I’ve heard all of this before 100’s of times on the record. Nothing is different.
Led Zep was reportedly one of the most bootlegged recording acts ever. Their risk-taking improvisational high wire act was probably a big contributing factor.
Exactly my thoughts. Also, Page (and all of Zep) was a phenomenal live performer.
I've always considered Led Zep to be a phenomenal band live and studio but Plant's recollection of the band being "The Band of Nods" in regards to their improve live performances make me laugh so much
Great stuff and couldn’t agree more. It’s why I never argued Jimmy is the best, but rather my favorite guitarist because his playing hits me in way no other has ever done in my 50+ years on earth.
It's that great riff and songwriting, baby. Most of the "best" technical players just don't have it!
@@bassman5123 100% agree. Most of the “best” players overplay and/or just don’t write interesting stuff. I believe every note Jimmy plays because it’s coming from such an emotional place. Even when he did miss notes, it didn’t matter because I could hear what he intended to play. Much like when you can read a misspelled word.
I like this comment , by far my favourite
spot on description and explanation. well done. led zep are two different bands - recorded multitrack - brilliant and timeless; en vivo - they had to fill in the missing pieces - and the theatre of it was incongruent with precision instrument performance.
Back in the day when I listened to the live version of stairway to heaven at the msg I thought what's wrong with jimmi ? Why is he playing the solo like he was and not like the studio version which sounded like a 10/10 for me . But as I listened to it again amd again I realised how the slight sloppiness added more beauty to the whole composition in a way that was unmatched by the studio version . I still listen to the studio recoding sometimes but more often than not I go for the live version just because it has more character .
He wasn’t always sloppy, but I’ve seen him live when he was all smacked out, and “sloppy” is being kind..
Knebworth for the most part was a train wreck for him..hard to watch.
@@anz2441 fr but kashmir and achilles last stand were diamonds in the rough
@@tkn2597 Absolutely...love them both. Stairway is their opus. Idc what guitarist are better than page, he is magic, and that song and solo are the best these ears have heard.
Absolutely Outstanding Video!!! I’ll take Jimmy’s So Called Slop over Technically Perfect EVERY DAY of the week… I will say OTHAFA Live at MSG was kinda rough, at least to my ears. Your Channel is about to blow up, Carl… Keep The Vids Rolling…
Perfectly well explains Sir !!!❤❤❤
His work on Coverdale-Page gave me a new found , and a whole nother level of respect and admiration . His voicing of chords and phrasing as well as composition really moved me , to almost have a better understanding and appreciation of his earlier years.
I loved that album actually!!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic
I love his work with Paul Rogers and The Firm.
There was some great pieces in that incarnation! I loved Closer!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic
You made me revisit Closer.... Thanks. Very uncharacteristically, Jimmy didn't drown the bass in Closer.
For me Jimmy Page is like Jimi Hendrix, both introduced new angles to music, both creative and both influential to other guitarists and musicians. They actually did things which woke people up, which made the listeners say 'could play that part again...'. Whether they were technically brilliant would not make any difference to their particular novelty they introduced into music which created their popularity.
Hendrix was much better technically than Page.
@@Rich-kp1eu but as creative inventors they were on the same scale
@@luznis139 I can't agree with that. Hendrix was a musical genius, I would not put Page in that category.
@@Rich-kp1eu Ah, I don't know about that. They're just so different that it' too hard to compare their technical skills. Hendrix is probably the most overrated guitar player in history! But of course, that's not his fault. It's just that the masses (bandwagoners) whom no nothing about playing guitar think that because they've been told that over the years (I also think it has something to do with him being black). Zakk Wylde may have described it best when he dubbed it the "Babe Ruth syndrome" after Rolling Stone put Jimi at number 1 on their All Time Best Guitarist list (which technically speaking, is absolutely ridiculous!) I mean, influence wise, it may be true, but reality wise, it's far from it. And like Page, Hendrix played pretty sloppy sometimes and also like Page, drugs probably played a big part in that. Plus, he depended a lot more on effects than did Page and often just made strange noises with them that didn't require much (if any) guitar playing skills but still highly impressed the non-musician masses. However, they're both great riff and songwriters despite their technical shortcomings. So they have much more in common that just their first names and the fact that they both became famous for playing the guitar. Don't get me wrong, I love Hendrix, but for his songwriting and singing abilities. In fact, I find him to be a much better singer than guitarist. And that's ironic, because Hendrix purportedly hated his own singing.
@@bassman5123 I only have on comment on this: All of the other guys you mentioned, Hendrix did it before they did. Hendrix is not overrated because he changed everything. He did things no one else ever did. The other guys were influenced by Hendrix, not the other way around. Page is just some guy, who wasn't very good technically.
I've always said there are many guitarists that are "better" than Page. But he is my favorite. All the magic comes from how he makes me feel, as if I know exactly how he feels at that very moment. It just gets to me like no other. And those freestyle solo rants are the stuff of legends.
I've seen The Song Remains The Same at midnight shows in theaters countless times. There is moment during a solo that captures Bonham and Jones glancing at each other as if to say "where the hell is he going now?" I could have imagined it, I was usually in an altered state of awareness.
Nope. You’re spot on. I too watched it countless times at midnight showings in the 80s. I know the precise moment you speak of.
I could never understand the arguments with who is the best or my favorite is better then yours. Who cares, are we children fighting in a sandbox? Lol we have our favorite and be happy. If you don’t like a certain guitarist that’s fine also, just don’t bash someone’s favorite, it doesn’t make it right. I’m a Page guy and that’s why I picked up the guitar and I’m sure I’m not alone on that lol. I also love other greats as well. It is all in the music and what we enjoy.
Exactly! Jimmy P is my favorite all-around guitarist! He may not have been the, “best” in a particular aspect of playing, but he had such a broad pallet of sounds and textures including slide, acoustic work, different tunings, etc. He created art out of sound.
You guys are talking about that wonderful part during 'Dazed and Confused'.
That part right there is when the song, and the guitar, was about to take us all for a sweet wild ride.
God I love that movie! Best song ever, even 50 years later 🔥👍🔥
@@MJEvermore853 Are you going to San Francisco. Jimmy was playing, JPJ and Bonham was like what’s he doing? Lol then Plant came in with the San Francisco song.
Beautifully contextualized - thank you for putting this out there.
I just discovered your channel and I love the content. I think the best way of describing Page was "out of control" (something coined by another UA-camr). And the big difference between today's music and the music back then was far more innovative. You are completely correct in calling it fearless because they weren't afraid to take risks or chances. It is like the feeling would get when sprinting top speed to the edge of a cliff and stopping just before you fell off, the rush of a full stop just before disaster.
100% agree
A guitarist to whom I lent a Zeppelin live video commented Page made a lot of mistakes but it was only when reaching for the impossible . My colleague came away mightly impressed for all the reasons Carl discusses here.
I think that's what makes a great band, the risk, the dare, the improv. You never quite know what you're going to get. It keeps me excited and wanting to go back. How many times would you go and see a band play the same songs with the same rehearsed solos? Me, I want to be there when they risk all and nail it!
This sloppy thing runs a bit thin. I feel It's the imperfections that make music real, organic and breathe, creates power, feeling and emotion.
Keep up the great work.
I can't imagine going to a bar, listening to the band and saying "That guy is really sloppy, but it is probably because he is taking chances and pushing the envelope." It would be more like "This guy sucks."
@@Rich-kp1eu...you didn't listen to a word that orien said at all. Perhaps it's a little too technical for you to grasp.
A very good explanation of my favorite guitarist and his awesome style . Not to mention some art history! Bravo Sir !
How serendipitous this video came in my suggestions, as I literally was discussing this very topic a mere few hours ago with a HUGE Page/Zap fan.
Great analysis, Carl.
As an artist and musician, I find your analogy perfect for the topic.
Thanks. I thought that insight was a gift from the muse! I’m glad you see both sides of it and how perfect the analogy is!
@@CarlBaldassarreMusic I'm a clasically-trained painter/sculptor in the style of the Old Masters through Impressionism (though I find the American Impressionists utilized diffused color without sacrificing form, as in some Boston School painters.)
I'm an aspiring musician, as well.
I was impressed with your understanding of fine art and your correlation to make your musical analogy.
I hope we can connect one day soon.
Thanks for your inspiration, Carl.🙏
Carl, another great video. The fact that everyone wants to sound like Jimmy and play his music says it all. No, he’s not the most technical, but we like songs because of the way they make us feel. Jimmy knew that.
This "sloppy" playing is one of the very reasons it's so hard to emulate his style perfectly. And I think the "dirt" is what's makes the music great. Because the early 70s was hairy and dirty, it was loose and cool, and I think Jimmy's playing perfectly portraits that.
This is silly, he was a sloppy player, to say he was doing it for effect and it's hard to emulate is rubbish, listen to any kid trying to shred beyond his ability and it's no different. Besides it's well known Jimmy had a heroin addiction and his sloppy playing became a lot worse during the late 70s. He was so bad he could barely record the necessary guitar on In through the out door. Not saying he wasn't a great guitar player but it was more in his creative ability rather then his great playing although his playing was good in his formative years
Bad performance is not a question of 'style'
@@litgamer6205 I wasn't saying his technical skills were above and beyond, but he could have chosen the "safe" route and played something he fully mastered, anyone could sit down and make solos for all songs on Zeppelin II, but for the time (1969) they were pretty hot and intricate in the way he would phrase and articulate his licks. Ofc Hendrix and The Who, or even Deep Purple for that matter had the same idea at that time... Maybe that's why Townshend, Blackmore, Page and Hendrix are all considered among the greatest of all time, even though people like Guthrie Gowan or John Petrucci could by their flawless technique make any one of them their bitches in just one lick... But again, if guitar solos were buildings we would all honour the architect rather than the construction workers, meaning the value of creativity conquers the appreciation of the labour of the construction. But I think we're roughly on the same page (pun intended). Lmk if you're not, so I can go on an extended tantrum rant about how you're wrong, your music taste sucks, I'm superior, and maybe throw in something naughty about your mother that's not related to the subject.... Jk, have a nice day!
@@junacebedo888 your mom is a bad performance.
@@raven_of_zoso455 What's your view on Eddie Van Halen, overrated??
I was classically trained, and it drives me nuts when people say he was “sloppy,” he was being creative with his rhythm, and it’s intentional.
Thanks for this great discussion of Jimmy Page's priorities as a musician, and for bringing in the example of impressionist painting to illuminate your argument. I think all of us musicians would do well to explore other arts - painting, film, literature - for inspiration. It can lead to places we might not have discovered otherwise.
He could be sloppy at times. I thought it was mostly limited to times when he was soloing and trying to play a little faster than he probably should have been. The solo in "Heartbreaker" comes to mind. Most of his solos were excellent. His rhythm work and acoustic playing was always spotless, in my opinion. Excellent songwriter and producer. Overall outstanding guitarist.
That's really the only Zep song that he's not perfect. But the decision to use that solo most likely was because it had fire and emotion. It never made me wince to hear it. Just the opposite, it sounded like Page was caught up in the moment and let his emotions go.
@@scifiwriter98 * *David Treciak,* * C'mon brother. I love Led Zep but Imma-gonna-slappa-you-with-the-wet-spaghetti for saying that.
- His "Moby Dick" on, The Song remains the Same album is *AWFUL.* Sure, it's not a solo but his fills are cringe.- Compared to the original studio recording? Yes, *AWFUL.*
@Jammin Clemmons I was going to mention that much of his live playing is sloppy, but I figured it was obvious and everyone was just using studio songs for examples.
He was a big stealer too,they said
@@bambusidu All guitar players are. I try to steal a new piece every time I watch someone else play.
"Of any guitarist, Jimmy Page was my biggest influence. I wanted to look, think and play like him. Zeppelin had a heavy influence on Rush during our early days. Page's loose style of playing showed an immense confidence, and there are no rules to his playing." -- Alex Lifeson
Alex does not strap his guitar low like Page does on stage
Alex is one of best live performers I've seen. Neil and Geddy as well.
@@junacebedo888 What does that have to do with anything?
@@da324 Position of your instrument is very important. Too high is bad. Also too low is not good
@@junacebedo888 subjective...it's what feels comfortable. And Jimmy was a big influence on Alex....sooooooo!
Great analysis. I never thought of it that way.
I love that his playing is full of surprises.
His acoustic guitar playing always blows me away.
Especially the Rain Song.
Yes his solos were sloppy, but his riffs were fantastic.
Agreed, same with Pete Townshend.
His rhythm and finger stuff is always super tight
I agree.
You guys just don't get it. Passion and energy. If you were there live, you wouldn't think he was sloppy.
But if you did...you're missing the point.
@@stratolestele7611...they act like every solo he played was crap. The stupidity is astounding.
I've got every show that was ever recorded....sloppy solos were few and far between. They became more prevalent when he was on heroin, but only because he was high as hell and almost completely out of it some of the time.
They are judging his playing while he was up there on stage with an overwhelming heroin /cocaine/Jack Daniels cocktail running through his veins.
And speaking of Clapton, he was an awful junkie as well..... he couldn't even stand up to play at his own shows!
At least Jimmy could still jam a bit and didn't need a broomstick to prop himself up.
In the sixties and seventies, you were expected to improvise your solos and do something different each time. The vibe for guitarist and I think for musicians was much more of a jamming mindset. Jimi Hendrix is a great example of what it was like back then.
That was great timing, Carl. Today, there was a discussion on the "Willard at 96 Rock" (defunct station in Atlanta), Facebook page about the best guitarists in each category, and some chap offered that page was a "sloppy live" So I offered this link for re-education purposes. Loved the references to the impressionists.
"Have you ever heard about the great Rembrandt?
Have you heard about how he could paint?
And he didn't have enough money for his brushes,
And they thought, it was rather quaint." - Van Morrison
That’s so great. Glad to be of public service!!
Well Done! One of the BEST Jimmy/Zep vids on technique, I've seen in a while. Only wished you played a little more cause I love the tone out of your LP!
Wow, thanks!
The fact is that so many Zep tunes have so many layers of guitars that playing live he would have to choose which line to play or how to hybrid which parts of the harmony were most important to cover live. For instance, TSRTS, live? I mean how many guitar tracks were in the actual studio recording?
I’d like to think that he’s one of the best guitar players ever. What makes him special is his confidence, swagger, and humility as both a person and a player. He’s got a signature sound that comes from his heart and fingers. I’ve sought after his tone for decades and sometimes hear it in other places. Listen to Chuck Berry on Johnny B Goode. Listen to the very last chord stabs at the formatta and you’re going to hear what Jimmy Page sought after.
Perfection is boring. That’s why Creation is imperfect. It’s got variety and originality. It’s magical. Jimmy knew that mistakes led to moments of chaos that would result in beautiful creative moments. His other hobby was studying this science of chaos.
Everyone is open to their own opinion and that’s beautiful because they will always have a chance to change. So maybe he is sloppy. It’s only a state of mind that’s holding ya back from being brave! Go for it like Little Jim, and create some magic!
I'd also say he stands out for the way he orchestrated different guitars and tones in a song. Mixing electric with acoustic, like Buffalo Springfield did on their best songs, is something I really miss from that era.
@@scifiwriter98 love that band!
It's like when you hear Jimmy Page in the guitar solos of the 77' tour thanks to soundboards and audience recordings. The theremin section and the harmonizer effect is amazing.
I think those are the details that critics forget.
In the video of Seattle 07 17 1977 you can see that game between the guitar and the theremin... greetings Carl from Chile.
Carl, a song I wish you would review is Zep's "Rock and Roll". The sound of the guitar on it seem maybe overly compressed on record, but there are elements of it that are fascinating, particularly that string bending riff he arrives at as the solo reaches its peak.
Yep. It’s tricky.
"How the west was won" proves that he was not sloppy at all. I believe in many cases he was just taking the piss and there is also a lot humor involved and pranks. Concepts long forgotten in this "really serious" age we're living. Also, after 73 -74 I think he did not care very much for the guitar as he did until then.
Well, it's not that he didn't care, it's that he got hooked on pain meds which led into heroin.
Being stoned out of your wits has a poor effect on one's guitar playing.
The Page critics can't seem to wrap their little heads around that problem. Most of them can't even read properly.
When he wasnt on the hard stuff, he was always great.
@@MJEvermore853 Agreed, but what I really meant was that he focused more on composing and creating timeless and original music than strictly on being precise and technically proficient as he had done until then. After all this is a rat race no one wins and he must have felt that. He had nothing more to prove anyway. As far as the drugs, he didn't seem to slow down creatively at all
@@masterbluesrockguitar4966...very true...I just meant that his stage performance when downhill after the heroin began.
But you're right, his creativity didn't slow down
How dare anyone ask such a question of Jimmy Page?!
It's called playing with "emotion ", losing yourself in the moment.
Let's bask in Father Pages brilliance!
Sorry to burst your bubble but Page himself said he was sloppy but that it was part of his style.
@@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020 it's tongue in cheek.
Even so, if I could play anywhere near Pages "sloppy " , I'd be a happy man.
@@tonymcnamara9368 lol true.
@@tonymcnamara9368 I can play most of his music, I didn't write it though.
Page is only human. He has two arms, ten fingers, and his brain.
If he can do it, you can do it.
Try to play better than Page.
I'm really enjoying your insights to Page. As a guitarist I've been enamored by his absolutely brilliant concepts and raw emotion. I record my own riffs and parts of songs I write and always try to impart some "Paginess" lol
Your spot on. I always thought the same but could never put it to words that make as much sense as what you just said. I saw that in Page right away, Bonzo is a different story for me it took a long time to see his genius and same with Jones. The sum was definitely greater then the individuals it the case of Led Zeplin. I also thought that aside from solo's their music was incredibly simple done extremely well. I used to listen for hours. Thanks for letting me share.
When Jimmy Page preformed The song remains the same/The rain song with Led Zeppelin in 1973, that was a good example of the fact he wasn't sloppy due to a lack of skill. Those two songs were played clean and with passion, I've never seen someone shred on a 12 string guitar like he did.
Yes he had his moments of "sloppines" OCCASIONALLY on some live recordings. I've always attributed it to him trying too hard to fill out the sound of a 3 piece band with no second guitar, to get it to sound fuller like what is on the records. Your explanation here is very valid I think. I never gave a second thought to it, and apparently neither did millions of fans around the world that packed their shows in the 1970s!
You need to watch Live Aid, the ARMS shows, etc,. He can hardly play at all compared to the other guitarists, no he's been sloppy for years, the only reason it matters is Page is consistently ranked higher than guys who would simply blow him off the stage, and Page is always blaming faulty monitors or not rehearsing enough for his sloppiness when he's just not that good a soloist I've been listening for 40 years and he is at times dreadful when he takes a solo, but he has made that his style and it works for him
@@scottblanton5220 The Live Aid performance is pretty widely considered to be one of the worst performances of his career, hardly a fair example.
@@blib3786 try the Atantic show from 88, all the ARMS shows, etc. I'm not trying to trash him, I'm just saying he's overrated.
@@scottblanton5220 Well I tend to agree that he's overrated as a live player/soloist, but as a songwriter and studio player he's practically unrivaled.
@@blib3786 he can be solid in the studio, but it's live performing that really defines a player, can you imagine Eric Clapton not performing live only being a studio guitarist? Page was fortunate enough to be surrounded by a lot of talant and he stole alot also, never giving those he stole from much or any credit, I mean Dazed and Confused is by a guy named Jake Holmes. Black Mountain Side is pretty much stolen from Bert Jansch, etc, it goes on and on
I saw the movie the Song Remains the Same in the 70's and I guess I was about 14 years old. I remember how excited we were as we lined up outside the Roxy theater in Toronto to see it because me and my pals all loved Zeppelin. About 3/4 of the way thru the movie it suddenly hit me 'is he still going?' 'how much music does this man have inside him?'. Every solo, every song was a different musical journey and I was completely swept up in it. I love Jimmy Page!
This considerations are flawless. Everything you say is true and your metaphors about impressionism is deadly accurate.
Jimmy Page and John McLaughlin my two favorites, very different.
Jimmy is a consistent Note Bender on the guitar ,it gives it a bigger sound when he does that . Many songs you can hear it in a subtle way or a larger way like Out on The Tiles and Nobody's Fault
Perfect analogy to impressionism!
Excellent analysis and explanation, from one who has studied Jimmy Page for many years. Thank you, Carl.
I've heard other artists play their solos note for note just as recorded. Don Felder on Hotel California comes to mind. Never heard Page doing that live while playing Stairway to Heaven.
That's weird cause in the most viewed live version of Hotel California, it seems Felder doesn't play it note for note, maybe you've seen a different version to me though
To be fair, I don't think Page ever wanted to play their solos note for note
A great comparison, and I've long thought that people calling Jimmy sloppy were looking at his work at little too closely instead of standing back and taking it all in. Or maybe they were just jealous they could never attain that level of ZEN. Breathing in and out, moving across the stage as his fingers danced across the fretboard for half an hour at a time. Without seeming to give it a thought. That is a sublime Genius.
Great video, pure music culture explained in a very clear and complete way.
Thanks so much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great video! But I feel as though you've glossed over something integral for this argument and really, vital for any and all art - intention. Could these impressionist artist paint technically better than the 'ugly' art that they made? Or were those broad paint strokes the best they could do? Could Jimmy Paige play the Heartbreaker solo perfectly, or was the sloppiness the extent of his technical skill? Regardless of the answer, if the final product was the intention of the artist, rather than a by-product of some physical limitation (skill) then that is the mark of mastery.
Brilliant!
He also wrote hell of a lot of great songs, and other guitar critics would’ve loved to of written two or three of them. That’s why I love to watch him live more than any other
no he didnt! they copied or "covered" a lot of old blues tunes there's nothing more disturbing than to hear from some clown who has never heard of Willy Dixon?
@@johnpike5836 you are showing ignorance
@@richieg8432 I got something else to show u...zip
@@johnpike5836 what are your qualifications to critique someone like jimmy page ? zip
@@richieg8432 2 ears 2 eyes and that's probably all a member of the watch and listening audience requires. what's your secret? I'm thinking you'd like to have him Decorate your tonsils...
The amount of raw power generated by Pagey (sloppy or not) cannot be denied. I love his playing. Pagey, EVH, and Blackmore are my penultimate players.
Page was a genius. I learned guitar by listening to every album of LZ. Brilliant and emotional song writing. His years of session playing gave him the ability to stretch across boundless territory. If you want technical guitar playing, listen to the millions of you tube videos where clones play the same song over and over again, taken from a computerized loop or tab.
This is a good comment in my opinion. Who cares?This whole thing is subjective anyway. To be a session musician, (at least in London in the 60's), you had to turn up, play the chart you were given, and get it spot on. Your next session depended on it. No 'sloppiness' allowed. I feel he's made a choice and you all seem to know what that is. There is no point to music if it has no emotional quality. Great vocalists of the past are having their songs pitch corrected and auto-tuned now. What is happening with the singers parallels this discussion about a guitar player and music in general.
Music is performed by flawed human beings, not robots, yet! We're moving towards a robotic and souless future, music included. The last sentence of Davids comment sums up the current situation well. To play all technical and flash at the expense of emotion is a waste of everyone's time. I think there is an element of jumping on a bandwagon on few music related things. Something his heard by someone, who the idea hadn't occurred too, and then they go around spouting off as though it were their idea! It's like a snowball rolling downhill, getting larger and larger. A lot of this stuff comes from those that weren't there at the beginning. So it fails to take into account the vibes that were culturally and socially prevalent at that time. Again, who cares if JP plays a certain way. What does it change?
Congrats for tackling this sensitive topic, I enjoyed your observations. Blackmore is another guitarist who took chances during his solos but was tight tight tight when riffing. Subbed ✨
Thank you!!!
Everything that needs to be said about Jimmy Page, all in under 10 minutes. Excellent commentary, no fluff and to the point.
Life is sloppy. Jimmy was perfectly imperfect! Give me Jimmy, Jimi and Neil every day of the week over any clean virtuoso.
right. Mozart just doesn't compare to these 3.
There’s no need to downplay technical virtuosos out there, they’re just as good as Page or Hendrix.
@@itslikethesamebutdifferent8020 they are patently superior players. they simply may not have the musicality and creativity of Jimi and Jimmy when it comes to writing hits or great compositions.
@@RobertMJohnson - everyone has their own style thru which to project their musical ideas. I do agree that Page wrote riffs like no one else and his ability to create music using alternate tunings is second to none. Hendrix was from another planet entirely which is why Clapton, Beck, Page and every other guitar player at that time were so awestruck at his unique style which in turn influenced them and everybody else. Virtuosos May not write hits like them but they are technically better musicians and that is a bigger yardstick thru which to measure music, not writing hits.
@@RobertMJohnson You don't get my point. Sloppy Mozart would still be incredible. It's not the way it's played, it's what's being played.👍
Hi Carl, I very much identify with your comments on Jimmy's playing. "Originality exists when a work of art is identifiable with its creator" is a brilliant statement, thanks for sharing it!
Thanks for noticing that summation. I put in tremendous thought rendering that definition.
The "sloppiness live" argument quickly falls apart when listening to the 10min Stairway to heaven solo of 1973. If that does convince people, i don't know what to say!
PS: beautiful video Sir!
Thank you so much for making this video. I’ve always been upset by the fact that Van Halen, whom I love, was disappointed in Jimmy’s “Sloppiness“. Doesn’t mean he didn’t love Jimmy page but he thought this is not what he wanted to emulate. But for me Jimmy page was a huge huge influence on the way I play, in the way I want to play. If I could just find a band that we would be willing to stretch out in the same way. But this is so well said in your video. Jimmy was, how do you put it into words how he was, his playing was in once in a lifetime it will never, ever happen again like it did in Led Zeppelin, for our generation. It was truly the music of our lives! Thank you and thanks to Jimmy and Robert and John Paul and John.
Hey Carl! Page has only been described as "sloppy" since the mid-80s or so with the explosion of rock sub-genres (death metal, grindcore...), and the rage among guitarists became sheer technique. But it's not MUSIC if all you are playing an exotic scale over a weird set of chord changes at 160 BPM and 125 dB and there is no song/composition.
I've recently been learning Since I've Been Loving You and really listening to it closely and I love this song, but there are some sloppy moments and the timing is often off, but I think that one is more of an expressive device
JP my fav. guitarist artist, seen him 1988 in Detroit. Pissarro my fav impressionist. good post, thank you.