Not that the whole concert was 'horrible', but I do remember a wonderful story by Sir Thomas Beecham. He was conducting a Beethoven's Lenora 3. They decided to put the trumpet player offstage for that moment when he plays alone that lovely horn signal/military call near the end, to gain I suppose greater haunting depth. They played the overture, got to that point, and nothing. No trumpet-call. They went on and finished. At intermission, Beecham and others sought out the player. He was red-faced and angry. They asked, "Why did you not play?". He answered; "I wasn't allowed to play!!!". "What?". Apparently, as he was about to play and moved into position, a couple of stagehands (clueless and disinterested in the music no doubt) grabbed him and said: "Here now, you can't' play that in here, there's a concert going on!", and hustled him away from the wings!
The same story is told about the San Francisco Symphony under Alfred Hertz. It was an outdoor parks concert and the trumpeter was stopped by a cop. "You can't play that here! There's a concert going on!"
1985, Barbican Hall in London. Sir Charles Groves is conducting Beethoven's "The Ninth" to commemorate his 70th birthday. The bass soloist is Donald McIntyre. The third movement has just ended and Groves conducts the opening eight bars of the finale. At the pause, McIntyre stands up and sings, "O Freu---" then stops, suddenly realizing that it's the cello and bass sections' turn, and he isn't supposed to come in for several more minutes. I was trying hard to suppress my laughter, and my date, who wasn't too familiar with the piece then, couldn't figure out whether I was choking on something or what. A few people around us also didn't understand what was up with me. The performance continued and ended splendidly, and during bows, Groves gave McIntyre a sympathetic pat on the back.
As a trumpeter, I had heard about that Mahler 5. We all know it can happen to us. My teacher said “If you are going to play the trumpet you have accept that every mistake you make will be heard for 7 blocks. if you can’t, play a string instrument.’”… good advice…That same trumpeter, by the way, played on the Mahler 5 recordings of Karajan, Haitink and Abbado. He is a legend. He played over 50 live 5ths and played in the orchestra for 30+ years. Great career, but still… that concert…
Konradin Groth (that trumpeter) already subbed in the Berlin Philharmonic last year of highschool, and then frequently during his studies at UdK - even as solo for his teacher Fritz Wesenigk. Rumor has it, when Wesenigk finally retired, Groth was eliminated in 3 auditions in the first round behind a curtain (nerves), finally got the position nevertheless when allowed to skip the first round. Went to many concerts over the next almost 20 years and there was never a hint of nerves - really an amazing player.
Groth was a wonderful player, but he wasn’t the trumpeter in question. Groth never played Mahler 5, rather his co-principal, Martin Kretzer, always played the 5th, in all concerts and recordings, until the Rattle era. They traded Mahler symphonies: Groth always played first trumpet on the 2nd, the Posthorn solo in the 3rd, the 4th, 6th and 8th. Kretzer played 1, 5, 7 and 9. It was a unique arrangement.
@@JackBurttrumpetstuff Could they have traded position for this concert? Martin Kretzer, also an amazing player, never showed nerves either in all the Concerts I attended I did not attend the concert at Carnegie Hall in 1993 (even if I lived in CT at that time), but remember distinctly that this concert was metioned in an article (Tagesspiegel?) upon his transfer to the teaching position at UdK - I am really sorry if my memory is faulty and I attributed this concert to the wrong player!
@@nikolausspoerel3835 it’s possible, but I don’t know for certain. I interviewed Kretzer in 2018, and we talked about how they parceled out the different Mahler symphonies. He said he always played the 5th. KG did have nerve/chop issues late in his career, and retired fairly early. Kretzer still plays sometimes in the section, even after his retirement. It was my understanding that is was MK in Carnegie, and that it was a traumatic moment, but that he recovered. I’ve met them both, and obviously, it wasn’t something I asked either musician…. Too much respect. We trumpeter have to live with that responsibility/fear of ruining a concert…. As my teacher said to a colleague who commented on the missed note that a student played in a recital: “Did you count the right notes, too?”
Here's one that did turn out to be a 'horrible' concert, but for somewhat tragic reasons. Back in 1986, a friend of mine was house manager for Orchestra Hall, Detroit, Michigan, USA. As such, his duties were varied, with the many concerts that passed through at that time between the Detroit Symphony schedule. I was lucky to occasionally get a ticket through him when he had some unused house seats. One of these was for Andres Segovia, playing a lovely sounding program. I was most excited to see him play his own transcription of a Haydn symphony! I had not really thought about it, but when he appeared onstage, he had the gait and demeanor of a terribly old man; then my next seatmate told me he was 93!!! Somehow, he got through the first half. But anyone, even short of an expert of the guitar, knew it was pretty poor playing, and a bit out of tune (tho' some quiet pieces were fine and affecting, given the situation). He began the Haydn in the 2nd half. It was rather painful to hear; he just wasn't up to it. Then, I think in the third movement Menuet, he stopped, looked out at us in the audience, and roughly spoke about how sorry he was that he was not playing or feeling well, and he would not continue with the piece. He said he hoped the next time he returned, he would be better, and thanked us for coming, promising to be back! He then finished with a couple of quiet and not demanding pieces. My friend, one of whose varied duties included picking him up from, and taking him back to the airport, said he was never so glad when he dropped him off to leave; he said he really thought, so frail he was, that he might die while he was with him! And, in fact, a few months later, he did. So it was a 'horrible' concert but, of course, also very sad. A great performing artist, who just went on too long...
I may have run this by you before, be that as it may, i have to respond. I was about 16 years old and i and two like minded friends attended at concert by the Concertebau Orchestra of Amsterdam with Antal Dorati. We were very aware and of this great orchestra and cinductor and were very excites. The concert was held in the Sacramento Memorial Auditorium which is a very large old venue. We sat about 20 rows from the stage. There was one BIG problem. Accept for us 3, there were only about 10 people in attendance. TEN! We were shocked! Harry Newstone of our local orchestra came on stage and said sonething and then Dorati appeared. It was a huge orchestra. And to our amazement, they performed the whole concert. At the end of each work stood on our wioden chairs and aplauded like seals. There were two women a few rows ahead of us and they got up on their chairs too. I just vaguely remember a small group way up to n the upper balcony. At the end of Beethoven's 5th, we aplaudedas hard as we could. But my hands were really hurting. Peiple in this region are very nolstalgic about this hall. NOT i !!!
Long ago the BSO were playing a piece by Berio. My only recollection of that concert was that about 10 rows back, in the center, a chair and table with electronic equipment had been set up and a guy was fiddling with knobs in the equipment that emitted various noises which pretty much ruined whatever musical sounds were being produced on the stage. At length my friend sitting next to me said, in a moderately loud voice, "Kill the Sound Man!" I don't know if this was heard by the guy at the controls, but we found out later that it was Luciano Berio, himself!
Somewhere in the mid 1980s, as a student in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, I attended a concert given by the Frankfurt Opera and Museum Orchestra (the official title of the opera house band), conducted by Michael Gielen. I remember sitting through the world premiere of a ghastly work called "Zweite Sinfonie" by a composer whose last name must I have irretrievably deleted from memory, yet whose first name I do recall: Friedrich. During the performance, members of the audience began to leave the hall, whereas (I think I don't exaggerate) the same flight instincts were harbored among some of the valiantly struggling musicians on the stage. After the ordeal was over, Gielen called the composer onto the stage, and brought him back three more times in a gesture of defiance, only to be greeted by increased volumes of utter displeasure from those who had committed themselves to stick it out and voice their anger at being fleeced of their money by such superb awfulness. There was other music on the program, of which I only remember Tchaikovsky's Capiccio Italien, Op. 45. Go figure. Do not ask how I got back to my dorm, but back to my room and into my bed I did. To this day I thank the Gods of Sleep, which helped me out of misery swiftly and soundly...
A live concert that I know you would have loved. I attended a Pittsburgh Symphony concert, conducted by William Steinberg. It was a concert performance of "Die Fledermaus" by Johann Strauss II. But, in the scene where they go to an entertainment, Steinberg inserted, as the entertainment, the closing scene of "Der Rosenkavalier" by the other Strauss. It was pure magic, and showed what innovative programming Steinberg could do. But, in keeping with your theme. Lorin Maazel and the Pittsburgh Symphony doing the last three Mozart Symphonies. He conducted them like they were Mahler and the timing was a good 6-10 minutes longer than each should have been. They were painful to sit through.
About 15 years ago, I heard Gergiev conduct the Philadelphia Orchestra - the programming was not unlike the Haitink and Rattle performances you mentioned: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun, La Mer, and Schubert's "Great" Symphony. Well, I'm glad I had bought the cheap-o student tickets, because it certainly was not great, and he turned Debussy into "La Merde". The balance was atrocious, Gergiev was an ungraceful and sweaty mess all the way through, his conducting erratic, and the performance constantly interrupted by his sharp nose breaths (although now podium presence is the least of his problems). It was the first time I walked out of a concert thinking "Well, that sucked", and the first time I knew that even a world-class orchestra can give a lousy performance. I sure had fun telling my friends about it, though!
Your horror-story about this Gergiev concert, calls to mind one of my favourite Klemperer-anecdotes. The sardonic maestro had been to a concert, were George Szell conducted La Mer in a performance, that obviously wasn't to the older conductors liking. When Klemp was asked by someone, what he thought of the performance, he dryly stated: "Es war nicht La Mer, es war Szell am Zee" ("It was not La Meer, It was Szell at Sea" - a double pun on Szell having been somewhat at a loss in the piece and the similarity of his name to the Austrian town, Zell am See, i.e. (S)Zell at the lake!). 😁
There have been plenty of concerts conducted by Gergiev in which you get the impression he barely knows the piece at all, plus too little rehearsal time- which is why he has his head buried in the score.
My one real "bad concert" experience was a piano concerto performance. A few days before the concerts (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) the planned pianist became seriously ill and so we had a late change in the concerto and the pianist. I was there for the Friday performance. In each movement there were times when it was clear that he was lost and making it up as best he could; last movement was the worst. So we sat there and I had the sense that most people in the audience were really pulling for him to just somehow hold it together and gut thru it. He did and got enough tepid light applause for him to take one bow and hurry off the stage. During the performance it felt like my skin was being scratched all over. The looks between the conductor and the concertmaster during the whole thing were so funny to watch; pained and wide eyed but grimly determined to professionally carry on and make the best of it.
Friend told me about a concert he played in Mexico of M5. Trumpeter tries to start, nothing comes out. Tries again and only a squeak. Finally he turns to the 2nd trumpeter for help, who then plays it flawlessly.
During that concert the 1st trumpet froze. At the conductor's 3rd atempt to start the Sy a section trumpet took it upon himself to nail it. After the concert he was fired.
Story goes that at a Traviata at La Scala, the soprano dying of consumption so was obese that the tiny little tenor was struggling to help her upstage to a sofa. Poor guy's huffing and puffing; then a voice rings out from the gallery: "Do it in two trips"!
The most nervewrecking concert experience I've ever had, was during a Schubert recital with Andras Schiff here in Copenhagen. Albeit being only at the end of August, a nasty, infectious cold plagued the city - and in the audience, were way too many people who ought to have stayed home in bed. In the middle of a slow movement, the coughing became too much for mr. Schiff. He abruptly stopped playing and with a very pained expression addressed the audience: " Why this noise? It's such beautifull music....and it's not even the flu season yet! Please, be quiet!". The last 30 minutes of the concert I didn't enjoy at all, as I was just a bunndle of nerves, especially after an elderly lady on the balcony, 5 min after we had been admonished, coughed up her lungs, or so it sounded. The maestro didn't show for the final applause, untill he after 5 minutes - or what seemed like an eternity appeared on stage and curtly acknowledged the applause. A friend of mine, who is a music journalist, afterwards told me, that Schiff at a very prominent event found that the audience was making way too much noise during his performance. He stopped in the middle of a piece, slammed the piano lid shut, told the audience, that their behaviour was an insult to the composers, marched off stage and didn't show himself again at all! In the future, I think, I for the benefit of my mental health will enjoy the prowess of mr. Schiff on cd, rather than expose myself to the 'unique, live experience'!
Wow! I really think that's obnoxious. If you come to play, you play. It's an insult to all of the good people who were NOT coughing. By all means, make your point, ask for quiet, then shut up and give 'em what they came for.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree! I was at an Alfred Brendel recital, and after some coughing and creaking of chairs, he stopped playing, and said, "If I can hear you, everybody can. Please stay quiet". Justified. And, he did finish! One of the 'best' unprofessional reactions to that coughing/spluttering issue comes from the theater world. The great early 20th century actor John Barrymore (who admittedly was often, shall we say, a bit tipsy even in his best days), got so enraged with the noise one performance, he entered a later scene with a whole big fish in his hands! He advanced to the edge of the stage, threw the fish in the direction of where he though the worst offenders were, and shouted: "Alright now, chew on that you cats!".
Schiff did much the same thing during a recital at the Usher Hall during the Edinburgh Festival about twenty years ago. About ten minutes into I don't remember what piece, he closed the lid of the piano, stood up and addressed the audience: "If you want to cough, then cough!" and strode off the stage. I did what I was told and coughed a few times. After about five minutes he returned and the recital continued.
@@yodydee Well, it's a difficult call sometimes. Most symphony concerts are in the fall and winter, when colds and illness are most prevalent. And, if you have ever tried purposely trying to suppress a cough or sneeze, you know it is not only difficult, but often induces worse coughing! I always had VocalZones with me (heavy Licorice lollies), but sometimes a flask of Brandy was more effective...
@@bloodgrss When I was at school, we visited London, and I went for Handel's Messiah at the Royal Festival Hall. In the programme it said, that they had measured the noise of a cough in the Hall, and it equaled a horn making an entry either mezzoforte or forte. If the cougher put a handkerchief in front of the mouth, the strength of the noise would, on the other hand, only be equivalent to said instrument playing pianissimo. Quite a difference! If this hanky-trick doesn't suffice, there is only one adequate answer to the probleme: you ought rather to have stayed at home, possibly in bed, and with a nice hot drink. And if Messiah was called for, then only in your cd-tray!
Many years ago, when the world was young and the woolly mammoths grazed along Huntington Avenue in Boston, the Cleveland Symphony under the baton of George Szell came to town. The first piece was a Rossini overture, la gazza ladra. Rossini is spare and open, with no place to hide. And so one of the first violins forgot to take a repeat and sashayed on for a measure.. Szell's hands continued on course, but his face and attention were riveted on the offender until, or so it seemed to us in the balcony, the intermission.
David Robertson conducting Beethoven’s 9th @ St. Louis. It seemed like no one involved knew what they were doing. It became more interesting to see what they would misjudge next. My own longest concert was a community orchestra playing Mendelssohn’s “Reformation.” In some ways, I’m still stuck at that concert.
For one of our high school band concerts, our conductor, Joe Celli, a well-known figure in avant garde circles, programmed John Cage's "Radio Music," which was "played" on four radios with two performers each, one on the tuning knob, one on the volume knob. I think I was on third tuner. Well, inside our auditorium, we couldn't get any AM radio stations, and could only produce static. I don't think any of the the moms, dads, grandparents, et al. in the audience were converted. I also heard of the opening concert of a local summer fest with modernist leanings which they opened with Ligeti's "Poème symphonique" for 100 metronomes. The "music" was supposed to be the effect of the individual metronomes winding down at different rates over, normally, eight or nine minutes. Well, the damned things kept going for upwards of three quarters of an hour before the presenters stepped in and put an end to it. There was practically an audience insurrection.
That's a funny story about performing Radio Music where there was no reception--in any sense of the word! I fondly remember hearing the Ligeti in San Francisco in the 70s, and it was wonderful. Of course, that relies on the imperfect technology of the old Seth Thomas-type metronomes. Please don't tell me they used electric-powered ones!
A friend of mine played trombone in a local orchestra. We went to a performance of the Mozart Requiem, which started out in total chaos. It seemed as if the conductor and the orchestra were completely out of sync with each other. Afterward, my friend, who was thoroughly disgusted by the performance, told me what happened. During rehearsals, the conductor was beating in two. At the performance, he beat in four, without telling the orchestra he was changing his beat. My friend left the orchestra shortly after that.
When Vladimir Horowitz was touring in the spring of 1983, my pianist friends were telling me about his alarming number of dropped notes, memory lapses and incoherent instances. This partly was due to the anti-depressant medication he had been taking. Still, I waited on line with hundreds of other folks for the Metropolitan Opera box office to open, and I bought my ticket for his May 15th 1983 recital. I can't say I wasn't warned. The physical and musical deterioration in his playing shocked me, and I remember that I even cried during intermission.Of course Horowitz pulled it together by 1985 and went on to his triumphant return to Moscow and his beautiful final recordings. But the May 15th 1983 concert is available for all to hear, and it ain't pretty!
I heard him in '83 too, at Ambassador Auditorium in Pasadena Ca. It was sad and disappointing to hear all the flubs, (Carnaval and Op.101, Chopin, etc.) from one of the greatest pianists of all time whose thrilling command of the instrument had been the ne plus ultra for a good part of the last century. Just seven years previously, he played Liszt's Valse Oubliee No.1 and Au Bord d'un Source in the same place, and the audience let out a collective pleasured sigh - the playing was so free, perfectly paced and executed, with a hammerless, disembodied poetry in exquisite pianissimo shades. Would have made anyone else sound like a clunky rube.
When visiting Berlin, I was super excited to go to a Berlin Philharmonic concert, where they happened to also play Mahler 5, under Dudamel. I don't often get an opportunity to listen to a world-class orchestra, and I thought hearing Mahler live would be an amazing experience. I wouldn't say it was as much of a disaster as yours was, but it was not played particularly well, and I would also describe it as a "snooze-fest". I think it must be difficult to perform Mahler live, because I haven't yet heard a good performance of his symphonies in person.
Thanks, Dave, for sharing! I've always wondered whether a live performance affects a reviewer's thoughts of a recording by the same performer, and vice versa. By right, these should be mutually exclusive, but the ears and mind can be influenced by past experience. I remembered thinking a live performance to be poor but the recording turned out to be quite good (the wonders of editing!). More puzzling it is when a live performance thought to be terrific becomes less interesting when heard on disc. The mind boggles.
No doubt about it, we listen to live performances differently than we do recordings. More than once I've heard a live concert and liked it, then listened to a radio broadcast of the same concert so as to relive it and not enjoyed the recording.
One cringe-worthy concert - Teodor Currentzis with Seattle Symphony. The opening was Polovtsian Dances which was sped through ala crystal meth and probably finished in under 8 minutes. Next came Khachaturian Violin Concerto at a similar rush and completely unbalanced in favor of the orchestra who pummeled over the soloist (who was the soon to depart concertmaster of SSO). The discomfort of the soloist was so noticeable it was stunning - I still cringe he basically humiliated her as she was quite capable and talented (yes the concerto is too overly orchestrated but a seasoned interpreter knows how to soften the balances where needed). The second half was a terrifying Shostakovich 5, perhaps not in the way one would hope. A concert of complete overkill. I can certainly understand from that one performance how Maestro Currentzis has earned his current reputation.
I wouldn't call this horrible, but I was at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's first performance ever of Stravinsky's King of the Stars. I was studying with the long-time tubist of the orchestra, Arnold Jacobs, and was attending as many of the concerts as I could. HUGE orchestra and full chorus. And the piece was over in five minutes. I don't remember what the rest of the concert was (although I'm sure it was great). I was underwhelmed by the Stravinsky. I asked Mr. Jacobs about it at our next lesson. He told me (in his distinctive bass voice) "When you're playing something by such a well-known composer that's not been done much before, it usually turns out to be a turkey!" We both had a good laugh.
I was at Karajan's next to last concert in the US with the Vienna Phil at Carnegie. Seeing two members of the VPO basically carry him from the wings to the podium was both moving and somewhat grotesque. I had no idea he was that incapacitated. For me, it over shadowed the concert in my mind forever. That night he was conducting Vienna bon-bons. The next night I understand he did a transcendent Bruckner 8. Wish I had been able to go to that one!
I too attended a concert where the performance of the featured work was marred by a botched trumpet solo. About 5 years ago our local orchestra performed the Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition as the second half of the concert, and as the solo trumpet began to play the opening Promenade he flubbed a few notes. Incredibly it only got worse ; he blew the entire promenade, and nothing could salvage it. The conductor was visibly irritated (I could see him from the side). It was a huge relief when the full orchestra entered, but the damage was done. I'm a trumpeter, and I felt really sorry for this guy. The main body of the work was competently performed, nothing special, but after the end and during the applause, the conductor asked for solo bows from all of the orchestra soloists except the errant trumpet player. Two concerts later his name was no longer on the orchestra roster.
Saw Michael tilson Thomas twice in Philadelphia: Beethoven 3 and Tchaikovsky 6. The Beethoven was so bland and littered with mistakes, he cued in the winds at the wrong time in the third movement - just doinky stuff. The Tchaikovsky was demented; he focused on the most unimportant bits and it just sat there all dumpy-like. I heard through the grapevine that he spent the majority of his rehearsals talking or reminiscing about Leonard Bernstein. I noticed they haven’t invited him back
A year or so ago I was playing in one of the first concerts that got put on after the pandemic regulations were relaxed here in England. The second half of the programne was Saint-Saëns Organ Symphony. We got through the first part without any problems, and then the ‘scherzo’ section leading up to the BIG chord from the organ that opens the final section: total silence! There was a pause for a few seconds before the conductor tried to get things started again - still silence! The conductor turned to the audience and apologised, upon which some wag in the audience piped up, saying “Try turning it off and turning it back on again”! The organist shouted back “I’ve tried that!”. It was decided to call for the church organist to try to fix it, and while we waited, the leader gave us a performance (unaccompanied and from memory) of the Méditation from Massenet’s Thaïs, to huge applause. After which, I’m pleased to say, we were able to complete the symphony!
I attended some CSO concerts with Solti that I thought were awful. The solti sound gave me migraines, but the rest of the crowd didnt agree or didnt notice.
I attended Van Cliburn's concert at the Hollywood Bowl during his comeback tour in the early 90s. That was the night he was supposed to play both the Tchaikovsky 1 and Rachmaninov 3, which as a kid at the time was so exciting. I guess we all should've known beforehand how ambitious/impossible this was to begin with. He struggled through the Tchaikovsky, then there was a lengthy intermission before someone finally came out and said that Cliburn wasn't feeling well. He ultimately scratched the Rach 3 and instead played 3 short encores before calling it a night. An absolute bust.
Now about a year ago. The Doelen (Rotterdam, The Netherlands). Rachmaninov pianoconcerto no. 2 and Tschaikovsky symphony no. 4. I can't remember what orchestra, conductor or soloist. I just rember the coughing of a woman in front of my wife and I. All through Rachmaninov 2!!! It was terrible, terrible, terrible! She didn't leave the hall until the break. Of course I should have been understanding but I couldn't. Rachmaninov pianoconcerto no. 2 is my favorite (though I do like 4 also). The first concert I visited back in the nineties was with axactly these works so it should have been a trip down memory lane. I sure shall remember it!
I remember a Petrouchka from my college orchestra where the guy playing the cornet solo completely lost his lip, so all you heard was the snare drum. Finally at the end he squeaked out a single final G. So sad for him. Then the Met Orchestra at Carnegie under Levine doing the Symphony of Psalms. Apparently the 4th trumpet was stuck in traffic, so Levine just paced around the stage for 15 minutes waiting for him to show up. I innocently leaned over to the person in front of me who had a score, and asked, "Couldn't they do it with just three trumpets?" (Of course they could.) His outrage at the thought was to die for. But the ultimate horror was at Carnegie in 2000, Carlo Bergonzi at 75 doing a concert performance of Otello under Eve Queler. Lots of famous people from the opera world showed up, tickets were impossible to get, rumor had it the dress rehearsal was great. Poor man came on for the Esultate and was flatting all over the place, voice had no ring, couldn't manage or sustain the high notes, transposed sections down an octave. He was so humiliated that he withdrew at intermission and was replaced by a younger tenor. There are clips of parts of it still today on UA-cam; it is just as sad as I remember it.
I saw him in one of his last Toscas in D.C. with Shirley Verrett. She embraced him passionately during the first act love duet and stuffed his head down into her cleavage with such force that he clearly didn't want to come up again. You've never seen anyone look so happy when he finally emerged.
Back in my grad school daze the college I attended would bring in an international ensemble for a concert and one year it was, I think, the Belgian Chamber Ensemble??? What made the concert so memorable was the clothing the musicians were wearing - sequined jackets with sequins stripped down the sides of their pants. Read the headline, 'Liberace Plays Bartok', and you get the idea. They were the most tasteless and tacky outfits ever at any symphony - ever!! It was like looking into a giant disco ball while listening to classical music. The first half of the concert was an unmemorable snooze fest then Liberace did play Bartok's Divertimento for Strings. The musicians finally woke up and gave a stunning performance of the Divertimento. Though we were still laughing at the collective fashionable faux pas, we were wowed by the performance. It was a memorable concert in every way! In Atlanta, the ASO, I watched a young conductor destroy The Rite of Spring. It is a big splashy work and the conductor made it as loud as possible, louder is better, right?, He also made it an episodic mess by destroying the work's structure. The old Atlanta Symphony Orchestra hall had the worst sonics possible. Loud symphonies horribly distort and this performance of the Rite was more like attending a punk rock concert. There was so much distortion I would have wore ear plugs if I had had them.
I just heard tileulenspiegel with mark elder this evening, on radio 3, and the horn player at the beginning, did the same as your trumpeter in Mahler 5!
Dear Dave, Perhaps you could do a video on live concerts that you thought were atrocious but got rave reviews in the press. I often have that with operas I see. For example: a very recent production of Le Domino Noir at the Opéra-Comique in Paris got great reviews for all the singers, where I thought that my ears really told me that two of the parts where just shrieking ans where the tenor was often underpowered (inaudible). I heard it at three occasions and it was pretty much the same every time (although the final performance was best - as if they could risk everything because there was no tomorrow). So when I read rave reviews of the voices I think: Where have they been? Are they deaf? What are your most stunning experiences with that phenomenon? Joost
Good point about Mahler 5. The opening is SO exposed and it must be a rush for principal trumpet players if things goes well. I sure do not envy your Abbado experience. The two absolutely terrible, waste of money experiences I've had at a symphony concert didn't involve performance nor programming but people behaving badly in terms of mobile devices and being drunk and talking endlessly.
Gergiev's Marinsky Tristan und Isolde 2015 at Barcelona Liceu has been my most horrible live experience. Orchestra did clearly not properly rehearsed it. Singers were awful: Goglevskaya's Isolde didn't sing, she shouted. Robert Gambill's Tristan was unaudible (no voice). At the end of first act, some people loudly and angrily booed. All music lovers at Barcelona will remember that infamous night in our mind for the rest of our life!
As a trumpeter I can relate to the trepidation of that opening passage of Mahler 5. Years ago I heard a live Minnesota Orchestra concert on the radio of the Mahler 5. When the trumpet player went from the opening note (C#) to the next (E), his third valve got stuck. All that came out was a choked sound. He stopped playing altogether, loosened the valve up (you could actually hear him working the valve), and they they started from the beginning.
Poor guy. I can toally relate. I played Cornet in high school. We would have band reviews, and we would march and perform in the neighborhood streets and on the football field. One time, we were ready to go on and I had solo spot in the middle of Ol' Man River. We were standing in line, ready to take the field and my middle valve got stuck. Panic kicked in. By sheer luck, a girl who was walking up the line where we were waiting, was checking to see if any of us needed water before heading out to the field. I had her pour water on my valve and presto! I was back in business! If it wasn't for her, I would not have been able to perform!
I remember a Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3 with Peter Donohoe as the soloist. As the first movement was heading towards the close the conductor decided to accelerate - and the soloist did not. So the orchestra finished first, leaving the soloist continuing on by himself for a few bars. It was shocking, and there was a lot of gasping and head turning. The rest of the performance, thankfully, went well.
Re: Haitink and "The German Classics", where London Royal Opera House reopened after a long renovation he programmed a televised gala attended by the great and good. Several operatic pieces, but all German : Domingo in Die Walkure (!), choruses from Fidelio and so on. This would have been the time for some high-spirited Carmen extracts, but no. Very dour
I just sat through a Daniil Trifonov recital that reminds me so much of that Haitink concert. Trifonkv did Szymanowski, Debussy, and Prokofiev Sarcasms in the first half. This was really good stuff, the kind of music Trifonov does best. Then he did the Brahms Third Sonata for the whole second half. This is a piece that decidedly isn’t “peak” Brahms, and it just goes ON and ON (especially that dry-as-dust second movement). I really like Trifonov a lot, but Brahms just isn’t his thing. It was all shades of color at the expense of architecture, counterpoint, and idealistic Kreislerian passion, so it just hopelessly boring. But luckily I didn’t pay for the ticket that got me in, and I enjoyed a nice evening with my pianist-friends. It wasn’t a bad concert, but it had some of the same types of programming problems as the Haitink concert.
Trifonov just cancelled his performances of the Emperor in Toronto in a week and a half due to injury (apparently sustained last year, and still bothering him). It's quite possible he was not at his best.
The worst concert I went to was when my local orchestra performed Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alongside weirdly Elgar’s Cello Concerto. The Cello Concerto was flawless but their performance of the 9th was god awful. None of the instruments were cohesive, everyone missed their queues so frequently either going too early or too late, dynamics were off, and the choir might as well have been performing a different piece. Not to mention, the choir was clearly half-assing the performance. I also went to a bad Nutcracker but that was due to the Director trying to “modernise” it by rearranging the numbers and adding new ones, not such much the playing and the dancing
Thanks for calling out Klaus Mäkelä. I've zero interest in his recordings. He's this generation's Jukka-Pekka Saraste or Simon Rattle. All hype and no sizzle.
I'm from Zagreb Croatia. We have 2 major orchestras here, the Zagreb Philharmonic and the Croatian Radiotelevision symphony orchestra. Well, the Phil is like maybe decent, they play effectively but are often just meh. The CRTSO, holy cow. I went to their concert like 3 months ago. They played the Egmont overture, they couldn't even play the opening together, the horns were way too loud, you could barely hear the strings even when they had the main melody. Then Alessio Allegrini who played horn in like the Berlin Philharmonic played the Strauss 2nd horn concerto. I play the horn and had high expectations, it sucked, you could barely hear him, he blended entirely with the orchestra, a total snoozefest and then he played some retarded encore made up of famous horn melodies. And then in the 2nd half, Dvorak's 9th - an extremely boring performance. I unironically want that orchestra to be disbanded ever since I went to that concert. We pay tax money for that trash. The Philharmonic is more than enough.
I can’t remember for the life of me who the conductor was, probably because I was bored out of my mind, but the soloist for the evening on this particular night was James Ehnes. The Overture was an incredible contemporary piece by a Canadian composer, chamber music setting with two Inuit throat singers. Then Ehnes came on to deliver a show stopping Saint-Saens Allegro and Rondo Capriccioso, after which he played about 10 Paganini encores. The real kick in the nuts, so to speak, was when whoever was in charge decided that Mozart 40 was going to be the big piece for the evening. If anything, Mozart 40 has always been a first half piece for me. I never really liked it because of how overused it was as an analysis example in my college theory courses, but putting that AFTER Ehnes and the throat singers was just murder for the audience.
I attended a live performance of Gershwin's "'Concerto in F" where the principal trumpet screwed up multiple times in movement #2; it was like listening to cars crash on the freeway.
Not in the running for worst concert ever, but I wanna get it off my chest anyway. Itzhak Perlman came to Phoenix, in the 90s, I think it was, to play with the Phoenix Symphony Orchestra. This being Phoenix, the PSO has always struggled to build an audience. But at the mention of Perlman, the house was sold out. Perlman, for some reason, decided to give the very least possible: he played the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto, indifferently; he acknowledged the standing ovation; he exited the stage; he may have come back on for a second bow, but by in large, he just left the audience to tire themselves out before realizing he wasn't coming back onstage for any reason, let alone and encore. In my mind, it was a highly disrespectful display.
Itzhak Perlman was the first big name soloist I ever paid to see/hear. He came to Toronto to do the Brahms Concerto with the TSO - how could that combo possibly miss, right? RIGHT? First movement starts up fine through that long orchestral opening, the big big big buildup and then finally the soloist's big entrance and... BLARRRRGGGHHH!!! WTF was THAT?!? His intonation was so far off the entire audience went into a collective spasm. He recovered a bit, then recovered a bit more, sawed through the cadenza competently. The middle movement was suitably gorgeous and the finale brought the bravura but I never recovered from that gawdawful first movement. I have since attended vastly superior performances of the same piece by "names" (Anne Sophie Mutter and - best of all - Christian Tetzlaff) and several unknowns.
Talking about programming: Haitink and the Concertgebouw came to Brazil and did a concert consisting of Debussy's JEUX, Bizet's SYMPHONY in C and Beetgoven's 7th. Talk about a limp evening... Also Muti with Philadelphia programmed Beethoven's 4th and 5th on a single concert and played two Verdi Overtures as encores! Granted, the orchestras sounded marvelous, but the programming sucked!
One nice thing about live music vs. listening to recordings at home is the ability to have a great evening even if the performance itself is no good. Of course, at home you can turn the music off immediately a bit easier than sprinting out of a concert hall.
Brahms 4th, Edo de Waart v. CSO at Ravinia, early 80s. Mano a mano. Ugly performance. A few years later, ran into one of the musicians (chief clarinetist, if memory serves) at a downtown cafe. Mentioned the fight which he recalled with a laugh. I added that the performance was a disservice to Brahms. He seemed surprised but took it tolerably well.
Fixing Haitink's program only takes some juggling and the addition of a work that any great orchestra should be able to pull off without too much trauma... To wit---> 1. Rimsky-Korsakov: Either his Russian Easter Festival Overture (one of Dave's intrepid "Fabulous Concert Programs", a series I am enjoying thoroughly, opens with said work), OR the same composer's Capriccio Espagnole 2. Schumann Symphony #2 Intermission 3. Mussorgsky Khovanschina Prelude 4. Shostakovich Symphony #6 The DSCH symphony with its riotous finale has to end the concert, while the Schumann now is a nice counterpose to the primarily Russian-centric nature of the concert. The Mussorgsky works nicely too as repose between the Schumann and the DSCH. If I may say so, in all humility, now an all-around "can't miss" concert program.^^ So where is my impressario / curator fee? Hehehe...
As an avid concert goer I guess mediocre run throughs of great works are more common in my experience than absolute disasters, but I did experience two which are forever etched in my conciouness. I still cringe when I think of them. One was a performance of Ariadne at Covent Garden with Jessye Norman as a wonderful Ariadne & a very distinguished but rather aged tenor (whom I won't name) as Bacchus who missed ALL his critical top notes in the final scene of the opera. The generally polite London audience booed him. He looked shattered. Another, even more poignant 'disaster' was a very famous & much esteemed pianist giving a beautiful recital towards the end of her illustrious career (again, I shan't name her) when about half way through the first movement of the Brahms 3rd sonata she stopped & exclaimed, "my God, I've forgotten! I just can't remember how it goes!"...a wave of goodwill floated up from the audience, but she couldn't continue.
Performing anything live can be a nightmare. I once did a theater performance and had a long monologue to remember, say 11 minutes. In the middle of one performance my mind went completely blank. I practiced it so many times the words mysteriously kept coming out (correctly). In my mind I was thinking, where the hell am I at? Then about 3 minutes later I figured it out and finished the monologue. I got lucky and my heart goes out to the pianist.
I too had the amazing misfortune of having to endure Bernard haitink in Carnegie Hall. How any supposed major conductor could make that most iconic of symphonies the Beethoven 5th sound dull, well it's mind-boggling but BH Managed to do it ! This with the Boston Symphony in an all Beethoven concert including calm sea and prosperous voyage and the wonderfully exciting or, should have been, Choral Fantasy
I think it was 2008-2009, my wife and I went to see a local period instrument group, here in Louisville Kentucky, they were playing one of CPE Bachs harpsichord concertos- so I had to go- it was in winter, and they had a hell of a time tuning the cat gut strings, a hell of a time! starting and stopping, and at one point my wife opened a bag of sweedish fish and we got the most evil eyed stares ever! 😂it was a blast
No really BAD concerts, but away back in groovy 1969 my piano teacher took me to hear Burgos and the L.A. Phil. There was some Hindemith (yawn) and a routine, dull-as-dishwater Mozart Violin Concerto from one James Oliver Buswell lll.
I was at a local orchestra playing Beethoven's 5th where the double bass were clearly struggling in the Trio section of the Scherzo. If it weren't for the fact my friend was a soloist, I would have walked out
My post memorable dissapointment was in Birmingham (UK) some years back. Not the CBSO but a visiting orchestra, the Pittsburg no less, with Maazel. It was Mahler 6, the only work in the programme, but no exposition repeat - and we were short changed I thought. Especially given a somewhat bland performance which was followed by just one re-appearance by the conductor. An off-night, tiredness, or mabe they had a a plane to catch...?
A Beethoven 7th at Ravinia in the 1970s. Andrew Davis (not "Sir" yet) conducting the Chicago SO. Final chord, first movement, glaring wrong note by the horns, or a horn. It was as if one could hear the entire audience gasp. The horns of the Dallas SO when Anshel Brusilow was music director, and the first trumpet in the "Academic Festival Overture." The symphony was (is?), essentially, the DCO orchestra. "Fidelio," first opera ever presented in German at the DCO. Even Charles Mackerras (not "Sir" yet, as I recall) could not get the horns to play together, or to play correct notes in one place or another.
Orchestras on tour is always a bit of a crap shoot, but I'd say the worst concert I heard at Carnegie Hall was Bruckner's Ninth Symphony played by the Vienna Phil conducted by Pierre Boulez. Oh my. The dullest thing I've ever heard, also at Carnegie, was Muti conducting Mozart's Symphony No. 40 -- made even duller when he inexplicably took every single repeat in every movement.
Mr. Jilka, with which orchestra did Muti do the boring Mozart 40th? (He certainly was capable of exciting Mozart, going all the way back to his Pphilharmonia days.)
@@richardfrankel6102 That would have also been the Vienna Philharmonic as I heard Muti conduct that orchestra numerous times at Carnegie back in the day.
@@lawrencerinkel3243 Here's the thing: I don't mind performances of Mozart (or Schubert!) Symphonies with every single repeat...IF the conductor and the orchestra are so thrillingy alive and "in the moment" that they hold our attention throughout. And that is a very rare occurrence, indeed!
I feel lucky. To this moment, apart from a very young, freshly-Graduated pianist which botched some notes in Chopin's "Heroic" Polonaise (the rest of the program was good) and a Youth Orchestra having some problems with intonation at the beginning of the second Movement of Dvořák's Ninth, I've never attended a bad concert.
Regarding programming two big works on one concert, like Nielsen's 3rd followed by daphnis and chloe, well I saw Temirkanov do a Tchaikovsky cycle in Glasgow some years ago, each concert combined an early symphony with a late one; terrible programming! The second symphony has a big noisy ending, and you feel satiated after it. To then embark on the 5th is too much. The 1st and 4th are both spiritual journeys ending in triumph. You can't go on two of those in one evening. The 3rd is a long symphony and definitely a second half work with a nice loud ending. Loudest last is good rule. The 6th is great, but I don't want to hear it so soon after the 3rd; I need at least a couple of weeks. Oh and there were big cuts in all the early symphonies, even the short 2nd.
A few years ago, I saw Muti conduct the Chicago Symphony on tour. During the double bass opening of the Schubert Unfinished, somebody let out the loudest, wettest, most obnoxious sneeze imaginable. It sounded like the person had a bullhorn. Muti craned his neck, glared like a demon in the direction of the sneeze…and proceeded to beat time for the remainder of the evening. I left at halftime.
Well, I went to a lot of amateur orchestra concerts when I was younger. Most smaller towns here in the UK have a provincial orchestra. Some are quite good, others well!!..... I remember a couple of times....one concert they played a Beethoven piano concerto, I think No 1. John Lill was the pianist, who was a good professional pianist, and the orchestra (screech) just like your Bruckner screech. Tbh John Lill held it together as best he could. But bless them all for trying.. Another time, they played Beethovens Ninth.....yes the ninth!! Tbh they got through it pretty well until the final coda..... when it fell apart.... I think we all clapped in sympathy, but bless them.. Another time.... and I can't remember the orchestra, possibly the Halle.... they played Bruckner 4, and he fluffed the opening horn theme, can you imagine?!? I think they creeked through the rest of it, without a hitch... But live performances bring great responsibility on the performers, but I just enjoy the occasion. I don't scrutinize the performance too much..
Could you (or someone) suggest two recordings of the same pieces that greatly differ in quality of execution? I would love to listen to both and see if I can appreciate the difference with my novice ears. Love the channel!
For quality of execution, listen to the finale of Brahms' Third Symphony by Bruno Walter (Sony, stereo with the Columbia Symphony) and then by Furtwängler and the theoretically "great" Berlin Philharmonic on Warner.
If you have Spotify, you can find the Mahler symphonies performed by the Siam Philharmonic Orchestra. The seventh is a particular favourite; you can practically hear the trumpeters crying during the outer movements. Compare that performance to Haitink with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, and have fun.
@@adamsasso1 When comparing the same piece of music it helps if you know the piece well so that you can pick out various things. If you can read music use a scoref (there are music videos with scores). Find something you know well on youtube. Pick one with somebody famous and another with a conductor and orchestra unknown to you. Enjoy, JIM
I believe I heard a version of the Abbado Berlin Philharmonic Mahler 5. On that tour they also came to Washington DC. The trumpet made it through the opening ok, but the rest WAS dull. Professionally played, but dull. The only time I've heard the Berlin live. A big disappointment...
I saw a recent concert by red dot baroque, a baroque ensemble in Singapore. Pergolesi's stabat matar with 6 players, one to a part. No vibrato. The sound was anemic and the cellist couldn't resist just adding a bit of vibrato at the end after enduring the whole night without a touch of it. I cannot complain because it was free however.
An NSO Mahler 4, conducted by Leonard Slatkin. Absolutely nothing wrong with the performance. But there was a guy about 10 rows in back of me who could not stop the most fruity, phlegmy coughing that you have ever had the misfortune to hear. I finally had enough, went back to him -- during the first movement -- and told him that if he couldn't control himself, to leave. He did shut up somewhat after that. The ushers -- I complained to them, too -- showed no interest in evicting him.
One of the worst performances I heard was by David Fray. Originally this concert was not in my subscription but I bought the ticket from an acquaintance, wish I hadn't. Fray had a programme with only Bach. He played on a Steinway in the big hall of the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. This hall has a famous but also a long reverb. When Fray started, a wall of sound came towards me. The use of the pedal with the reverb made it impossible to listen to. Perhaps at the piano it sounded great but I couldn't hear any details, voicing. Walked out at the interval, couldn't stand it. At another concert I walked out during the performance and at the cloakroom I met other people who also had sneaked out. We were all relieved we had gotten out. The first time I heard The Ninth was with Yakov Kreizberg and NedPho. The conductor, orchestra, choir and soloists all arrived at a different time at the last bar. Kreizberg started the last movement already at such a high tempo that no one could follow him at the accelerandi. I talked to the second first violonist later that evening and he said that they skipped notes just trying to keep up with the insane tempi. Never heard such a screeching from soloists trying to phrase the words they were supposed to sing. The choir already fell internally apart but they turned into a clueless, mumbling group.
Not necessarily the worst ever, but memorable for the wrong reasons. Sometime in the late 70s,I was standing in the Promenade at the Albert Hall, waithing to hear Sir Charles Groves conduct Beethoven 7. At the appointed time he strode onto the podium, resplendent in red cummerbund, surveyed the orchestra, then walked off. He returned a few minutes later to address the audience who, he said, were owed an explanation. The trumpeters had failed to turn up and he would not perform Beethoven without trumpets. However they had been contacted and the concert would begin as soon as they arrived. So, about half an hour late, the performance commenced. It was marked,as I recall, more by vigour and fury than refinement and precision. On the way out, I overheard one of the musicians say 'You get away with anything with Charlie Groves'.
The two trumpet players (whom I knew) were in the pub; they had assumed that the Beethoven Symphony would be in the 2nd half and they had nothing else to do. Both were superb players but the 1st trumpet (sadly, no longer with us) was notorious for turning up at the wrong hall and/or on the wrong day. I remember sitting around waiting for him to turn up to rehearse the Haydn concerto. It turned out that he was in the hall where we were playing the next day (I was not in the same regular orchestra as him by the way - he was a guest soloist on those days).
Regarding the Haitink Mussorgsky, Shostakovich, Schumann concert that you mentioned..that entire concert was broadcast (Over 2 separate programs). I was in the listening audience with tape recorder going...I was 16 years old at the time and that was the first time I had ever heard the Shostakovich Symphony No. 6. I became enthralled with that work based on that broadcast (Shostakovich 6 is still my favorite Shostakovich Symphony). Unfortunately, I no longer have the tape of that broadcast (I missed the Schumann broadcast). I believe concerts should end not with the loudest work or the work that uses the largest number of players, but the work with the greatest emotional impact. I don't know that I would ever put Schumann 2 on the same program with Shostakovich 6, but if I were to do that I would definitely end with the Shostakovich. Perhaps Mr. Haitink was thinking that the Schumann was more familiar to most people and so it would come off better at the end? I went to a concert played by the Hannover Band in Carnegie Hall in '94. They played the Eroica symphony on the first half and on the 2nd half we heard a Weber clarinet concerto ending with the Schumann Symphony No. 4. Odd right?
I don't know if it's odd. Mahler used to put the biggest work first because he wanted the audience to be fresh, but it depends on how long the concert is.
Mine was Lugansky in Hong Kong , he was playing Rach 3 and while he didn't missed a note , it was hands down the most boring Rach 3 I have ever heard .
It would seem obvious: the louder work comes last, unless it is a pops-like work (let us say Hidemith's Symphonic Metamorphoses on themes by Weber, which should be excellent as a pops piece. Really! What's not to like! The Russians took over as the biggest players on the symphonic scene after Mahler died, So... any Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert (except his ninth!), or Mendelssohn (except the choral 2nd) symphony would naturally precede Prokofiev's Fifth. On the other side I would put Sibelius' soft-spoken sixth (the psychiatrist says, "listen to Sibelius' Sixth Symphony and call me in the morning") would precede Schubert's Ninth on that principle. Having the quieter work last is one way to asleep. Overtures, even if Wagner, come first.
I'll offer one where I almost lost the will to live - Lorin Maazel, Philharmonia Orchestra, Mahler Sixth at RFH. A Sluggish, undercharacterised, performance which was so boring even a member of the orchestra was yawning (a double bass player if memory serves me correctly).
My worst concert experiences generally happened while I was a participant. One that comes to mind was a workshop involving the Kansas City Orchestra in the late 1970s. Several students were invited to play along, and the organizers thought it would be a good idea to separate the strings and the winds. And to make matters a lot worse, the powers-that-be thought putting together a bunch of college students with limited rehearsal time would be the perfect opportunity to perform Hindemith's Symphony for Band. I was playing piccolo for the sad event and had to chew my lip as the band would get lost, ensemble would fall to pieces, and the poor conductor was forced to stage whisper "pick it up at measure 167" several times at several places. It was mortifying! I don't remember the rest of the concert, possibly due to shock.
I'll give you my pick of one of the most impressive live concerts that I ever heard, the 70th anniversary concert of the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra (it appeared on PBS in the USA) and it was just amazing. It consisted of Brahms' first piano concerto (Barenboim was the soloist), Max Bruch's first violin concerto, and Ravel's La Valse. Oddly the three composers' had 22 years of overlap in their lifespans, so it is not as if the IPO was having Haydn with Shostakovich or something like that. On hearing Brahms' first piano concerto I could only think "I didn't know that Brahms was Jewish!" Bruch's first violin concerto -- I had forgotten after about ten years that it was on the program, but Zukerman did it well. Finally, Ravel's La Valse had a menacing treatment of its atmosphere, as if to suggest what was going on when the IPO was founded with recent members of German orchestras. Basically, get away as quickly as possible from a continent going mad with hatred! Europe is no longer the Gemutlichkeit of Viennese waltzes!
The uneasy menacing atmosphere of La Valse does not come from the performance, it is intrinsic to the music. It's a feature, not a bug--the IPO was just doing its job. Arthur Rubinstein said it was like dancing on a volcano--evidently he was quoting Ravel.
I once went to an L.A. Philharmonic concert that had some awful piece by Schnittke - all banging and clanging -we literally laughed out loud and had to leave. :-) I get so annoyed by this practice of having these "west coast premieres" of composers in residence who produce usually complete crap. Instead, when I had been interviewed by phone (twice!) by the L.A. Philharmonic I told them there's PLENTY of UNPLAYED beautiful 20th century music that NEVER gets performed. I will kill myself with one more program of a Tchaikovsky symphony or a dreaded Beethoven 6 or (worse) the 7th. It's so bad now in this respect that I actually STOPPED GOING TO LIVE CONCERTS. I am fine going to the opera but the L.A. Philharmonic no longer gets my dollars (Disney Hall however is a beautiful and great sounding venue I should say). Anyway, I am huge fan of modern music but trying to find concerts that are just the wee bit adventurous has only gotten worse than trying to coax Pandora when requesting classical music to play more than 5 selections before repeating the original piece. I musical curmudgeon am I !
Its better to arrive late. They always put the pieces of poop at the beginning. A william schuman overture . We are forced to pay for what we came for by enduring the educational section. Id love a concert thats all music we want to hear.
Do more live concert reviews here! Maybe you can save us from spending so much money seeing these people. Last week in Vienna we had Thielemann doing Bruckner 6th One of the dullest nights in memory…
I wonder if the overall outcome would have been better had Abbado stopped the orchestra and started from scratch. My one live experience of a world class orchestra was the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Jansons with before the intermission Pictures at an Exhibition, and after it La Mer. Just over an hour's worth of ucis, but hey. No prizes for guessing what happened at the start of part 1 with the trumpet solo...! The real concert from hell, however, was in the late 70s. I must start by expressing great gratitude to my then school, where every year without fail the Utrecht Symphony Orchestra showed up to play an evening's concert with at least one soloist. They were highlights in the year for me. Stand-outs where seeing a very young Ed Spanjaard conduct, and a Mozart concerto with Michele Boegner, and Emmy Verhey - I believe in Beethoven's. Yes, there were some real names there! Another great concert (though not with the USO of course) was Mozart's Gran Partita and Schubert's Octet. Substantial fare! All that in a provicial school in a pretty small village. Unthinkable today. One who did not yet have a name to speak of was Ivan Fischer, who did an all-Mozart programme with the Linz symphony and two piano concertos. The unfortunate thing there was the soloist, Ferenc Rados, who played like a lumberjack with a grudge. It was truly staggeringly awful and unbelievable. It was recorded for radio (never transmitted, surprise, surprise) and as the final movement of the last concerto was the worst of all, they decided on an encore of that same movement. Audible groans in the audience, and a well-deserved loud "BOOO" at the end right through the final chord, which made that particular take unusable also. Still, Fischer was fine in the symphony, and the orchestra was as well, Any applause was for them alone. Wouter van Doorn
I saw Ivo Pogorelich play the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto with the Detroit Symphony in 1999, with Neeme Jarvi conducting. Ivo took such a slow tempo it lasted 55 minutes. The whole first movement was like Largo-Adagio. Rach 2 usually is about 30-35 minutes. Jarvi kept looking back at Ivo and that just made him want to play even slower lol. I must say it was neat to hear a performance that pushes the "slow envelope" 😀, it was different lol.
@@keybawd4023 yes I remember hearing that. It may have been Philadelphia where he got booed, can't remember exactly. When Ivo was in his prime he was unstoppable.
Not that the whole concert was 'horrible', but I do remember a wonderful story by Sir Thomas Beecham. He was conducting a Beethoven's Lenora 3. They decided to put the trumpet player offstage for that moment when he plays alone that lovely horn signal/military call near the end, to gain I suppose greater haunting depth. They played the overture, got to that point, and nothing. No trumpet-call. They went on and finished. At intermission, Beecham and others sought out the player. He was red-faced and angry. They asked, "Why did you not play?". He answered; "I wasn't allowed to play!!!". "What?". Apparently, as he was about to play and moved into position, a couple of stagehands (clueless and disinterested in the music no doubt) grabbed him and said: "Here now, you can't' play that in here, there's a concert going on!", and hustled him away from the wings!
The same story is told about the San Francisco Symphony under Alfred Hertz. It was an outdoor parks concert and the trumpeter was stopped by a cop. "You can't play that here! There's a concert going on!"
@@bbailey7818 The moral is, then, keep your trumpeters onstage...
@@bloodgrss ... or under it.
@@bbailey7818 HaHA! Reminds me of the line in Dr. Strangelove: "You can't fight in here! This is the War Room!" It's unrelated, I know.
Hilarious... another beecham story for my collection
1985, Barbican Hall in London. Sir Charles Groves is conducting Beethoven's "The Ninth" to commemorate his 70th birthday. The bass soloist is Donald McIntyre. The third movement has just ended and Groves conducts the opening eight bars of the finale. At the pause, McIntyre stands up and sings, "O Freu---" then stops, suddenly realizing that it's the cello and bass sections' turn, and he isn't supposed to come in for several more minutes. I was trying hard to suppress my laughter, and my date, who wasn't too familiar with the piece then, couldn't figure out whether I was choking on something or what. A few people around us also didn't understand what was up with me. The performance continued and ended splendidly, and during bows, Groves gave McIntyre a sympathetic pat on the back.
As a trumpeter, I had heard about that Mahler 5. We all know it can happen to us. My teacher said “If you are going to play the trumpet you have accept that every mistake you make will be heard for 7 blocks. if you can’t, play a string instrument.’”… good advice…That same trumpeter, by the way, played on the Mahler 5 recordings of Karajan, Haitink and Abbado. He is a legend. He played over 50 live 5ths and played in the orchestra for 30+ years. Great career, but still… that concert…
Miles Davis once wondered why Wynton Marsalis devoted time to classical playing. He said everyone's just waiting for him to miss a note.
Konradin Groth (that trumpeter) already subbed in the Berlin Philharmonic last year of highschool, and then frequently during his studies at UdK - even as solo for his teacher Fritz Wesenigk. Rumor has it, when Wesenigk finally retired, Groth was eliminated in 3 auditions in the first round behind a curtain (nerves), finally got the position nevertheless when allowed to skip the first round.
Went to many concerts over the next almost 20 years and there was never a hint of nerves - really an amazing player.
Groth was a wonderful player, but he wasn’t the trumpeter in question. Groth never played Mahler 5, rather his co-principal, Martin Kretzer, always played the 5th, in all concerts and recordings, until the Rattle era. They traded Mahler symphonies: Groth always played first trumpet on the 2nd, the Posthorn solo in the 3rd, the 4th, 6th and 8th. Kretzer played 1, 5, 7 and 9. It was a unique arrangement.
@@JackBurttrumpetstuff Could they have traded position for this concert? Martin Kretzer, also an amazing player, never showed nerves either in all the Concerts I attended I did not attend the concert at Carnegie Hall in 1993 (even if I lived in CT at that time), but remember distinctly that this concert was metioned in an article (Tagesspiegel?) upon his transfer to the teaching position at UdK - I am really sorry if my memory is faulty and I attributed this concert to the wrong player!
@@nikolausspoerel3835 it’s possible, but I don’t know for certain. I interviewed Kretzer in 2018, and we talked about how they parceled out the different Mahler symphonies. He said he always played the 5th. KG did have nerve/chop issues late in his career, and retired fairly early. Kretzer still plays sometimes in the section, even after his retirement. It was my understanding that is was MK in Carnegie, and that it was a traumatic moment, but that he recovered. I’ve met them both, and obviously, it wasn’t something I asked either musician…. Too much respect. We trumpeter have to live with that responsibility/fear of ruining a concert…. As my teacher said to a colleague who commented on the missed note that a student played in a recital: “Did you count the right notes, too?”
Here's one that did turn out to be a 'horrible' concert, but for somewhat tragic reasons. Back in 1986, a friend of mine was house manager for Orchestra Hall, Detroit, Michigan, USA. As such, his duties were varied, with the many concerts that passed through at that time between the Detroit Symphony schedule. I was lucky to occasionally get a ticket through him when he had some unused house seats. One of these was for Andres Segovia, playing a lovely sounding program. I was most excited to see him play his own transcription of a Haydn symphony!
I had not really thought about it, but when he appeared onstage, he had the gait and demeanor of a terribly old man; then my next seatmate told me he was 93!!! Somehow, he got through the first half. But anyone, even short of an expert of the guitar, knew it was pretty poor playing, and a bit out of tune (tho' some quiet pieces were fine and affecting, given the situation). He began the Haydn in the 2nd half. It was rather painful to hear; he just wasn't up to it. Then, I think in the third movement Menuet, he stopped, looked out at us in the audience, and roughly spoke about how sorry he was that he was not playing or feeling well, and he would not continue with the piece. He said he hoped the next time he returned, he would be better, and thanked us for coming, promising to be back! He then finished with a couple of quiet and not demanding pieces.
My friend, one of whose varied duties included picking him up from, and taking him back to the airport, said he was never so glad when he dropped him off to leave; he said he really thought, so frail he was, that he might die while he was with him! And, in fact, a few months later, he did.
So it was a 'horrible' concert but, of course, also very sad. A great performing artist, who just went on too long...
I may have run this by you before, be that as it may, i have to respond. I was about 16 years old and i and two like minded friends attended at concert by the Concertebau Orchestra of Amsterdam with Antal Dorati. We were very aware and of this great orchestra and cinductor and were very excites. The concert was held in the Sacramento Memorial Auditorium which is a very large old venue. We sat about 20 rows from the stage. There was one BIG problem. Accept for us 3, there were only about 10 people in attendance. TEN! We were shocked! Harry Newstone of our local orchestra came on stage and said sonething and then Dorati appeared. It was a huge orchestra. And to our amazement, they performed the whole concert. At the end of each work stood on our wioden chairs and aplauded like seals. There were two women a few rows ahead of us and they got up on their chairs too. I just vaguely remember a small group way up to n the upper balcony. At the end of Beethoven's 5th, we aplaudedas hard as we could. But my hands were really hurting. Peiple in this region are very nolstalgic about this hall. NOT i !!!
Long ago the BSO were playing a piece by Berio. My only recollection of that concert was that about 10 rows back, in the center, a chair and table with electronic equipment had been set up and a guy was fiddling with knobs in the equipment that emitted various noises which pretty much ruined whatever musical sounds were being produced on the stage.
At length my friend sitting next to me said, in a moderately loud voice, "Kill the Sound Man!" I don't know if this was heard by the guy at the controls, but we found out later that it was Luciano Berio, himself!
Fabulous!
Somewhere in the mid 1980s, as a student in Frankfurt am Main, Germany, I attended a concert given by the Frankfurt Opera and Museum Orchestra (the official title of the opera house band), conducted by Michael Gielen. I remember sitting through the world premiere of a ghastly work called "Zweite Sinfonie" by a composer whose last name must I have irretrievably deleted from memory, yet whose first name I do recall: Friedrich. During the performance, members of the audience began to leave the hall, whereas (I think I don't exaggerate) the same flight instincts were harbored among some of the valiantly struggling musicians on the stage. After the ordeal was over, Gielen called the composer onto the stage, and brought him back three more times in a gesture of defiance, only to be greeted by increased volumes of utter displeasure from those who had committed themselves to stick it out and voice their anger at being fleeced of their money by such superb awfulness. There was other music on the program, of which I only remember Tchaikovsky's Capiccio Italien, Op. 45. Go figure. Do not ask how I got back to my dorm, but back to my room and into my bed I did. To this day I thank the Gods of Sleep, which helped me out of misery swiftly and soundly...
A live concert that I know you would have loved.
I attended a Pittsburgh Symphony concert, conducted by William Steinberg.
It was a concert performance of "Die Fledermaus" by Johann Strauss II.
But, in the scene where they go to an entertainment, Steinberg inserted, as the entertainment, the closing scene of "Der Rosenkavalier" by the other Strauss.
It was pure magic, and showed what innovative programming Steinberg could do.
But, in keeping with your theme. Lorin Maazel and the Pittsburgh Symphony doing the last three Mozart Symphonies. He conducted them like they were Mahler and the timing was a good 6-10 minutes longer than each should have been. They were painful to sit through.
About 15 years ago, I heard Gergiev conduct the Philadelphia Orchestra - the programming was not unlike the Haitink and Rattle performances you mentioned: Prelude to the Afternoon of a Faun, La Mer, and Schubert's "Great" Symphony. Well, I'm glad I had bought the cheap-o student tickets, because it certainly was not great, and he turned Debussy into "La Merde". The balance was atrocious, Gergiev was an ungraceful and sweaty mess all the way through, his conducting erratic, and the performance constantly interrupted by his sharp nose breaths (although now podium presence is the least of his problems). It was the first time I walked out of a concert thinking "Well, that sucked", and the first time I knew that even a world-class orchestra can give a lousy performance. I sure had fun telling my friends about it, though!
Your horror-story about this Gergiev concert, calls to mind one of my favourite Klemperer-anecdotes. The sardonic maestro had been to a concert, were George Szell conducted La Mer in a performance, that obviously wasn't to the older conductors liking. When Klemp was asked by someone, what he thought of the performance, he dryly stated: "Es war nicht La Mer, es war Szell am Zee" ("It was not La Meer, It was Szell at Sea" - a double pun on Szell having been somewhat at a loss in the piece and the similarity of his name to the Austrian town, Zell am See, i.e. (S)Zell at the lake!). 😁
La merde !! 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
There have been plenty of concerts conducted by Gergiev in which you get the impression he barely knows the piece at all, plus too little rehearsal time- which is why he has his head buried in the score.
My one real "bad concert" experience was a piano concerto performance. A few days before the concerts (Friday, Saturday, Sunday) the planned pianist became seriously ill and so we had a late change in the concerto and the pianist. I was there for the Friday performance. In each movement there were times when it was clear that he was lost and making it up as best he could; last movement was the worst. So we sat there and I had the sense that most people in the audience were really pulling for him to just somehow hold it together and gut thru it. He did and got enough tepid light applause for him to take one bow and hurry off the stage. During the performance it felt like my skin was being scratched all over. The looks between the conductor and the concertmaster during the whole thing were so funny to watch; pained and wide eyed but grimly determined to professionally carry on and make the best of it.
which concerto was it
@@EntelSidious_gamzeylmz This was many years ago, so I really don't remember.
Friend told me about a concert he played in Mexico of M5. Trumpeter tries to start, nothing comes out. Tries again and only a squeak. Finally he turns to the 2nd trumpeter for help, who then plays it flawlessly.
During that concert the 1st trumpet froze. At the conductor's 3rd atempt to start the Sy a section trumpet took it upon himself to nail it. After the concert he was fired.
Story goes that at a Traviata at La Scala, the soprano dying of consumption so was obese that the tiny little tenor was struggling to help her upstage to a sofa. Poor guy's huffing and puffing; then a voice rings out from the gallery: "Do it in two trips"!
The most nervewrecking concert experience I've ever had, was during a Schubert recital with Andras Schiff here in Copenhagen. Albeit being only at the end of August, a nasty, infectious cold plagued the city - and in the audience, were way too many people who ought to have stayed home in bed. In the middle of a slow movement, the coughing became too much for mr. Schiff. He abruptly stopped playing and with a very pained expression addressed the audience: " Why this noise? It's such beautifull music....and it's not even the flu season yet! Please, be quiet!".
The last 30 minutes of the concert I didn't enjoy at all, as I was just a bunndle of nerves, especially after an elderly lady on the balcony, 5 min after we had been admonished, coughed up her lungs, or so it sounded. The maestro didn't show for the final applause, untill he after 5 minutes - or what seemed like an eternity appeared on stage and curtly acknowledged the applause.
A friend of mine, who is a music journalist, afterwards told me, that Schiff at a very prominent event found that the audience was making way too much noise during his performance. He stopped in the middle of a piece, slammed the piano lid shut, told the audience, that their behaviour was an insult to the composers, marched off stage and didn't show himself again at all!
In the future, I think, I for the benefit of my mental health will enjoy the prowess of mr. Schiff on cd, rather than expose myself to the 'unique, live experience'!
Wow! I really think that's obnoxious. If you come to play, you play. It's an insult to all of the good people who were NOT coughing. By all means, make your point, ask for quiet, then shut up and give 'em what they came for.
@@DavesClassicalGuide I agree! I was at an Alfred Brendel recital, and after some coughing and creaking of chairs, he stopped playing, and said, "If I can hear you, everybody can. Please stay quiet". Justified. And, he did finish!
One of the 'best' unprofessional reactions to that coughing/spluttering issue comes from the theater world. The great early 20th century actor John Barrymore (who admittedly was often, shall we say, a bit tipsy even in his best days), got so enraged with the noise one performance, he entered a later scene with a whole big fish in his hands! He advanced to the edge of the stage, threw the fish in the direction of where he though the worst offenders were, and shouted: "Alright now, chew on that you cats!".
Schiff did much the same thing during a recital at the Usher Hall during the Edinburgh Festival about twenty years ago. About ten minutes into I don't remember what piece, he closed the lid of the piano, stood up and addressed the audience: "If you want to cough, then cough!" and strode off the stage. I did what I was told and coughed a few times. After about five minutes he returned and the recital continued.
@@yodydee Well, it's a difficult call sometimes. Most symphony concerts are in the fall and winter, when colds and illness are most prevalent. And, if you have ever tried purposely trying to suppress a cough or sneeze, you know it is not only difficult, but often induces worse coughing! I always had VocalZones with me (heavy Licorice lollies), but sometimes a flask of Brandy was more effective...
@@bloodgrss When I was at school, we visited London, and I went for Handel's Messiah at the Royal Festival Hall.
In the programme it said, that they had measured the noise of a cough in the Hall, and it equaled a horn making an entry either mezzoforte or forte. If the cougher put a handkerchief in front of the mouth, the strength of the noise would, on the other hand, only be equivalent to said instrument playing pianissimo. Quite a difference!
If this hanky-trick doesn't suffice, there is only one adequate answer to the probleme: you ought rather to have stayed at home, possibly in bed, and with a nice hot drink. And if Messiah was called for, then only in your cd-tray!
Many years ago, when the world was young and the woolly mammoths grazed along Huntington Avenue in Boston, the Cleveland Symphony under the baton of George Szell came to town. The first piece was a Rossini overture, la gazza ladra. Rossini is spare and open, with no place to hide. And so one of the first violins forgot to take a repeat and sashayed on for a measure.. Szell's hands continued on course, but his face and attention were riveted on the offender until, or so it seemed to us in the balcony, the intermission.
David Robertson conducting Beethoven’s 9th @ St. Louis. It seemed like no one involved knew what they were doing. It became more interesting to see what they would misjudge next.
My own longest concert was a community orchestra playing Mendelssohn’s “Reformation.” In some ways, I’m still stuck at that concert.
😂
For one of our high school band concerts, our conductor, Joe Celli, a well-known figure in avant garde circles, programmed John Cage's "Radio Music," which was "played" on four radios with two performers each, one on the tuning knob, one on the volume knob. I think I was on third tuner. Well, inside our auditorium, we couldn't get any AM radio stations, and could only produce static. I don't think any of the the moms, dads, grandparents, et al. in the audience were converted. I also heard of the opening concert of a local summer fest with modernist leanings which they opened with Ligeti's "Poème symphonique" for 100 metronomes. The "music" was supposed to be the effect of the individual metronomes winding down at different rates over, normally, eight or nine minutes. Well, the damned things kept going for upwards of three quarters of an hour before the presenters stepped in and put an end to it. There was practically an audience insurrection.
That's a funny story about performing Radio Music where there was no reception--in any sense of the word! I fondly remember hearing the Ligeti in San Francisco in the 70s, and it was wonderful. Of course, that relies on the imperfect technology of the old Seth Thomas-type metronomes. Please don't tell me they used electric-powered ones!
A friend of mine played trombone in a local orchestra. We went to a performance of the Mozart Requiem, which started out in total chaos. It seemed as if the conductor and the orchestra were completely out of sync with each other. Afterward, my friend, who was thoroughly disgusted by the performance, told me what happened. During rehearsals, the conductor was beating in two. At the performance, he beat in four, without telling the orchestra he was changing his beat. My friend left the orchestra shortly after that.
When Vladimir Horowitz was touring in the spring of 1983, my pianist friends were telling me about his alarming number of dropped notes, memory lapses and incoherent instances. This partly was due to the anti-depressant medication he had been taking. Still, I waited on line with hundreds of other folks for the Metropolitan Opera box office to open, and I bought my ticket for his May 15th 1983 recital. I can't say I wasn't warned. The physical and musical deterioration in his playing shocked me, and I remember that I even cried during intermission.Of course Horowitz pulled it together by 1985 and went on to his triumphant return to Moscow and his beautiful final recordings. But the May 15th 1983 concert is available for all to hear, and it ain't pretty!
I heard his farewell on Chicago. The sense of occasion made up for dropped notes. As they say of Schnabel- less of the notes but more of the music
I heard him in '83 too, at Ambassador Auditorium in Pasadena Ca. It was sad and disappointing to hear all the flubs, (Carnaval and Op.101, Chopin, etc.) from one of the greatest pianists of all time whose thrilling command of the instrument had been the ne plus ultra for a good part of the last century. Just seven years previously, he played Liszt's Valse Oubliee No.1 and Au Bord d'un Source in the same place, and the audience let out a collective pleasured sigh - the playing was so free, perfectly paced and executed, with a hammerless, disembodied poetry in exquisite pianissimo shades. Would have made anyone else sound like a clunky rube.
When visiting Berlin, I was super excited to go to a Berlin Philharmonic concert, where they happened to also play Mahler 5, under Dudamel. I don't often get an opportunity to listen to a world-class orchestra, and I thought hearing Mahler live would be an amazing experience. I wouldn't say it was as much of a disaster as yours was, but it was not played particularly well, and I would also describe it as a "snooze-fest". I think it must be difficult to perform Mahler live, because I haven't yet heard a good performance of his symphonies in person.
Yes, your're right I believ, and it's said that the 5th is the most difficult.
Thanks, Dave, for sharing!
I've always wondered whether a live performance affects a reviewer's thoughts of a recording by the same performer, and vice versa. By right, these should be mutually exclusive, but the ears and mind can be influenced by past experience.
I remembered thinking a live performance to be poor but the recording turned out to be quite good (the wonders of editing!). More puzzling it is when a live performance thought to be terrific becomes less interesting when heard on disc. The mind boggles.
No doubt about it, we listen to live performances differently than we do recordings. More than once I've heard a live concert and liked it, then listened to a radio broadcast of the same concert so as to relive it and not enjoyed the recording.
One cringe-worthy concert - Teodor Currentzis with Seattle Symphony. The opening was Polovtsian Dances which was sped through ala crystal meth and probably finished in under 8 minutes. Next came Khachaturian Violin Concerto at a similar rush and completely unbalanced in favor of the orchestra who pummeled over the soloist (who was the soon to depart concertmaster of SSO). The discomfort of the soloist was so noticeable it was stunning - I still cringe he basically humiliated her as she was quite capable and talented (yes the concerto is too overly orchestrated but a seasoned interpreter knows how to soften the balances where needed). The second half was a terrifying Shostakovich 5, perhaps not in the way one would hope. A concert of complete overkill. I can certainly understand from that one performance how Maestro Currentzis has earned his current reputation.
I wouldn't call this horrible, but I was at the Chicago Symphony Orchestra's first performance ever of Stravinsky's King of the Stars. I was studying with the long-time tubist of the orchestra, Arnold Jacobs, and was attending as many of the concerts as I could. HUGE orchestra and full chorus. And the piece was over in five minutes. I don't remember what the rest of the concert was (although I'm sure it was great). I was underwhelmed by the Stravinsky. I asked Mr. Jacobs about it at our next lesson. He told me (in his distinctive bass voice) "When you're playing something by such a well-known composer that's not been done much before, it usually turns out to be a turkey!" We both had a good laugh.
I was at Karajan's next to last concert in the US with the Vienna Phil at Carnegie. Seeing two members of the VPO basically carry him from the wings to the podium was both moving and somewhat grotesque. I had no idea he was that incapacitated. For me, it over shadowed the concert in my mind forever. That night he was conducting Vienna bon-bons. The next night I understand he did a transcendent Bruckner 8. Wish I had been able to go to that one!
I was at that one. It was amazing.
I too attended a concert where the performance of the featured work was marred by a botched trumpet solo. About 5 years ago our local orchestra performed the Mussorgsky/Ravel Pictures at an Exhibition as the second half of the concert, and as the solo trumpet began to play the opening Promenade he flubbed a few notes. Incredibly it only got worse ; he blew the entire promenade, and nothing could salvage it. The conductor was visibly irritated (I could see him from the side). It was a huge relief when the full orchestra entered, but the damage was done.
I'm a trumpeter, and I felt really sorry for this guy. The main body of the work was competently performed, nothing special, but after the end and during the applause, the conductor asked for solo bows from all of the orchestra soloists except the errant trumpet player. Two concerts later his name was no longer on the orchestra roster.
I'm intrigued. What did they think of your liver & onions with mint pattie?
I never found out, but they ate it.
@@DavesClassicalGuide at least their tastebuds ventured outside "the luxurious sarcophagus of tradition"
Saw Michael tilson Thomas twice in Philadelphia: Beethoven 3 and Tchaikovsky 6. The Beethoven was so bland and littered with mistakes, he cued in the winds at the wrong time in the third movement - just doinky stuff. The Tchaikovsky was demented; he focused on the most unimportant bits and it just sat there all dumpy-like.
I heard through the grapevine that he spent the majority of his rehearsals talking or reminiscing about Leonard Bernstein.
I noticed they haven’t invited him back
A year or so ago I was playing in one of the first concerts that got put on after the pandemic regulations were relaxed here in England. The second half of the programne was Saint-Saëns Organ Symphony. We got through the first part without any problems, and then the ‘scherzo’ section leading up to the BIG chord from the organ that opens the final section: total silence! There was a pause for a few seconds before the conductor tried to get things started again - still silence! The conductor turned to the audience and apologised, upon which some wag in the audience piped up, saying “Try turning it off and turning it back on again”! The organist shouted back “I’ve tried that!”. It was decided to call for the church organist to try to fix it, and while we waited, the leader gave us a performance (unaccompanied and from memory) of the Méditation from Massenet’s Thaïs, to huge applause. After which, I’m pleased to say, we were able to complete the symphony!
Meditation from Thais almost always makes things better.
I attended some CSO concerts with Solti that I thought were awful. The solti sound gave me migraines, but the rest of the crowd didnt agree or didnt notice.
I attended Van Cliburn's concert at the Hollywood Bowl during his comeback tour in the early 90s. That was the night he was supposed to play both the Tchaikovsky 1 and Rachmaninov 3, which as a kid at the time was so exciting. I guess we all should've known beforehand how ambitious/impossible this was to begin with. He struggled through the Tchaikovsky, then there was a lengthy intermission before someone finally came out and said that Cliburn wasn't feeling well. He ultimately scratched the Rach 3 and instead played 3 short encores before calling it a night. An absolute bust.
Now about a year ago. The Doelen (Rotterdam, The Netherlands). Rachmaninov pianoconcerto no. 2 and Tschaikovsky symphony no. 4. I can't remember what orchestra, conductor or soloist. I just rember the coughing of a woman in front of my wife and I. All through Rachmaninov 2!!! It was terrible, terrible, terrible! She didn't leave the hall until the break. Of course I should have been understanding but I couldn't. Rachmaninov pianoconcerto no. 2 is my favorite (though I do like 4 also). The first concert I visited back in the nineties was with axactly these works so it should have been a trip down memory lane. I sure shall remember it!
I remember a Petrouchka from my college orchestra where the guy playing the cornet solo completely lost his lip, so all you heard was the snare drum. Finally at the end he squeaked out a single final G. So sad for him.
Then the Met Orchestra at Carnegie under Levine doing the Symphony of Psalms. Apparently the 4th trumpet was stuck in traffic, so Levine just paced around the stage for 15 minutes waiting for him to show up. I innocently leaned over to the person in front of me who had a score, and asked, "Couldn't they do it with just three trumpets?" (Of course they could.) His outrage at the thought was to die for.
But the ultimate horror was at Carnegie in 2000, Carlo Bergonzi at 75 doing a concert performance of Otello under Eve Queler. Lots of famous people from the opera world showed up, tickets were impossible to get, rumor had it the dress rehearsal was great. Poor man came on for the Esultate and was flatting all over the place, voice had no ring, couldn't manage or sustain the high notes, transposed sections down an octave. He was so humiliated that he withdrew at intermission and was replaced by a younger tenor. There are clips of parts of it still today on UA-cam; it is just as sad as I remember it.
I saw him in one of his last Toscas in D.C. with Shirley Verrett. She embraced him passionately during the first act love duet and stuffed his head down into her cleavage with such force that he clearly didn't want to come up again. You've never seen anyone look so happy when he finally emerged.
Back in my grad school daze the college I attended would bring in an international ensemble for a concert and one year it was, I think, the Belgian Chamber Ensemble??? What made the concert so memorable was the clothing the musicians were wearing - sequined jackets with sequins stripped down the sides of their pants. Read the headline, 'Liberace Plays Bartok', and you get the idea. They were the most tasteless and tacky outfits ever at any symphony - ever!! It was like looking into a giant disco ball while listening to classical music. The first half of the concert was an unmemorable snooze fest then Liberace did play Bartok's Divertimento for Strings. The musicians finally woke up and gave a stunning performance of the Divertimento. Though we were still laughing at the collective fashionable faux pas, we were wowed by the performance. It was a memorable concert in every way!
In Atlanta, the ASO, I watched a young conductor destroy The Rite of Spring. It is a big splashy work and the conductor made it as loud as possible, louder is better, right?, He also made it an episodic mess by destroying the work's structure. The old Atlanta Symphony Orchestra hall had the worst sonics possible. Loud symphonies horribly distort and this performance of the Rite was more like attending a punk rock concert. There was so much distortion I would have wore ear plugs if I had had them.
Dave, you should do a talk about recordings that were so bad you destroyed them afterwards!
I just heard tileulenspiegel with mark elder this evening, on radio 3, and the horn player at the beginning, did the same as your trumpeter in Mahler 5!
Happy Anniversary, David!
Dear Dave, Perhaps you could do a video on live concerts that you thought were atrocious but got rave reviews in the press. I often have that with operas I see. For example: a very recent production of Le Domino Noir at the Opéra-Comique in Paris got great reviews for all the singers, where I thought that my ears really told me that two of the parts where just shrieking ans where the tenor was often underpowered (inaudible). I heard it at three occasions and it was pretty much the same every time (although the final performance was best - as if they could risk everything because there was no tomorrow).
So when I read rave reviews of the voices I think: Where have they been? Are they deaf?
What are your most stunning experiences with that phenomenon? Joost
That happens all the time.
Good point about Mahler 5. The opening is SO exposed and it must be a rush for principal trumpet players if things goes well. I sure do not envy your Abbado experience.
The two absolutely terrible, waste of money experiences I've had at a symphony concert didn't involve performance nor programming but people behaving badly in terms of mobile devices and being drunk and talking endlessly.
Gergiev's Marinsky Tristan und Isolde 2015 at Barcelona Liceu has been my most horrible live experience. Orchestra did clearly not properly rehearsed it. Singers were awful: Goglevskaya's Isolde didn't sing, she shouted. Robert Gambill's Tristan was unaudible (no voice). At the end of first act, some people loudly and angrily booed. All music lovers at Barcelona will remember that infamous night in our mind for the rest of our life!
As a trumpeter I can relate to the trepidation of that opening passage of Mahler 5. Years ago I heard a live Minnesota Orchestra concert on the radio of the Mahler 5. When the trumpet player went from the opening note (C#) to the next (E), his third valve got stuck. All that came out was a choked sound. He stopped playing altogether, loosened the valve up (you could actually hear him working the valve), and they they started from the beginning.
Poor guy. I can toally relate. I played Cornet in high school. We would have band reviews, and we would march and perform in the neighborhood streets and on the football field. One time, we were ready to go on and I had solo spot in the middle of Ol' Man River. We were standing in line, ready to take the field and my middle valve got stuck. Panic kicked in. By sheer luck, a girl who was walking up the line where we were waiting, was checking to see if any of us needed water before heading out to the field. I had her pour water on my valve and presto! I was back in business! If it wasn't for her, I would not have been able to perform!
I remember a Prokofiev Piano Concerto 3 with Peter Donohoe as the soloist. As the first movement was heading towards the close the conductor decided to accelerate - and the soloist did not. So the orchestra finished first, leaving the soloist continuing on by himself for a few bars. It was shocking, and there was a lot of gasping and head turning. The rest of the performance, thankfully, went well.
@@keybawd4023 the score says ‘non legato’ at the start of that final section - you can’t do that if the conductor is speeding up on you
Re: Haitink and "The German Classics", where London Royal Opera House reopened after a long renovation he programmed a televised gala attended by the great and good. Several operatic pieces, but all German : Domingo in Die Walkure (!), choruses from Fidelio and so on. This would have been the time for some high-spirited Carmen extracts, but no. Very dour
I just sat through a Daniil Trifonov recital that reminds me so much of that Haitink concert. Trifonkv did Szymanowski, Debussy, and Prokofiev Sarcasms in the first half. This was really good stuff, the kind of music Trifonov does best. Then he did the Brahms Third Sonata for the whole second half. This is a piece that decidedly isn’t “peak” Brahms, and it just goes ON and ON (especially that dry-as-dust second movement). I really like Trifonov a lot, but Brahms just isn’t his thing. It was all shades of color at the expense of architecture, counterpoint, and idealistic Kreislerian passion, so it just hopelessly boring. But luckily I didn’t pay for the ticket that got me in, and I enjoyed a nice evening with my pianist-friends. It wasn’t a bad concert, but it had some of the same types of programming problems as the Haitink concert.
Trifonov just cancelled his performances of the Emperor in Toronto in a week and a half due to injury (apparently sustained last year, and still bothering him). It's quite possible he was not at his best.
@@nicolaa55 That's unfortunate, I hope he recovers soon. You're right, that might have been the issue at Gilmore.
The worst concert I went to was when my local orchestra performed Beethoven’s Ninth Symphony alongside weirdly Elgar’s Cello Concerto. The Cello Concerto was flawless but their performance of the 9th was god awful. None of the instruments were cohesive, everyone missed their queues so frequently either going too early or too late, dynamics were off, and the choir might as well have been performing a different piece. Not to mention, the choir was clearly half-assing the performance. I also went to a bad Nutcracker but that was due to the Director trying to “modernise” it by rearranging the numbers and adding new ones, not such much the playing and the dancing
Thanks for calling out Klaus Mäkelä. I've zero interest in his recordings. He's this generation's Jukka-Pekka Saraste or Simon Rattle. All hype and no sizzle.
I'm from Zagreb Croatia. We have 2 major orchestras here, the Zagreb Philharmonic and the Croatian Radiotelevision symphony orchestra. Well, the Phil is like maybe decent, they play effectively but are often just meh. The CRTSO, holy cow. I went to their concert like 3 months ago. They played the Egmont overture, they couldn't even play the opening together, the horns were way too loud, you could barely hear the strings even when they had the main melody. Then Alessio Allegrini who played horn in like the Berlin Philharmonic played the Strauss 2nd horn concerto. I play the horn and had high expectations, it sucked, you could barely hear him, he blended entirely with the orchestra, a total snoozefest and then he played some retarded encore made up of famous horn melodies. And then in the 2nd half, Dvorak's 9th - an extremely boring performance. I unironically want that orchestra to be disbanded ever since I went to that concert. We pay tax money for that trash. The Philharmonic is more than enough.
Dave, I can’t believe you worked at Lum’s!! At the milford post mall, correct? :) Amazing. Stratford boy, here.
Yes, for years.
I can’t remember for the life of me who the conductor was, probably because I was bored out of my mind, but the soloist for the evening on this particular night was James Ehnes. The Overture was an incredible contemporary piece by a Canadian composer, chamber music setting with two Inuit throat singers. Then Ehnes came on to deliver a show stopping Saint-Saens Allegro and Rondo Capriccioso, after which he played about 10 Paganini encores.
The real kick in the nuts, so to speak, was when whoever was in charge decided that Mozart 40 was going to be the big piece for the evening. If anything, Mozart 40 has always been a first half piece for me. I never really liked it because of how overused it was as an analysis example in my college theory courses, but putting that AFTER Ehnes and the throat singers was just murder for the audience.
I attended a live performance of Gershwin's "'Concerto in F" where the principal trumpet screwed up multiple times in movement #2; it was like listening to cars crash on the freeway.
Not in the running for worst concert ever, but I wanna get it off my chest anyway. Itzhak Perlman came to Phoenix, in the 90s, I think it was, to play with the Phoenix Symphony Orchestra. This being Phoenix, the PSO has always struggled to build an audience. But at the mention of Perlman, the house was sold out. Perlman, for some reason, decided to give the very least possible: he played the Mendelssohn Violin Concerto, indifferently; he acknowledged the standing ovation; he exited the stage; he may have come back on for a second bow, but by in large, he just left the audience to tire themselves out before realizing he wasn't coming back onstage for any reason, let alone and encore. In my mind, it was a highly disrespectful display.
Itzhak Perlman was the first big name soloist I ever paid to see/hear. He came to Toronto to do the Brahms Concerto with the TSO - how could that combo possibly miss, right? RIGHT? First movement starts up fine through that long orchestral opening, the big big big buildup and then finally the soloist's big entrance and... BLARRRRGGGHHH!!! WTF was THAT?!? His intonation was so far off the entire audience went into a collective spasm. He recovered a bit, then recovered a bit more, sawed through the cadenza competently. The middle movement was suitably gorgeous and the finale brought the bravura but I never recovered from that gawdawful first movement. I have since attended vastly superior performances of the same piece by "names" (Anne Sophie Mutter and - best of all - Christian Tetzlaff) and several unknowns.
Talking about programming: Haitink and the Concertgebouw came to Brazil and did a concert consisting of Debussy's JEUX, Bizet's SYMPHONY in C and Beetgoven's 7th. Talk about a limp evening... Also Muti with Philadelphia programmed Beethoven's 4th and 5th on a single concert and played two Verdi Overtures as encores! Granted, the orchestras sounded marvelous, but the programming sucked!
One nice thing about live music vs. listening to recordings at home is the ability to have a great evening even if the performance itself is no good. Of course, at home you can turn the music off immediately a bit easier than sprinting out of a concert hall.
Brahms 4th, Edo de Waart v. CSO at Ravinia, early 80s. Mano a mano. Ugly performance. A few years later, ran into one of the musicians (chief clarinetist, if memory serves) at a downtown cafe. Mentioned the fight which he recalled with a laugh. I added that the performance was a disservice to Brahms. He seemed surprised but took it tolerably well.
Fixing Haitink's program only takes some juggling and the addition of a work that any great orchestra should be able to pull off without too much trauma... To wit--->
1. Rimsky-Korsakov: Either his Russian Easter Festival Overture (one of Dave's intrepid "Fabulous Concert Programs", a series I am enjoying thoroughly, opens with said work), OR the same composer's Capriccio Espagnole
2. Schumann Symphony #2
Intermission
3. Mussorgsky Khovanschina
Prelude
4. Shostakovich Symphony #6
The DSCH symphony with its riotous finale has to end the concert, while the Schumann now is a nice counterpose to the primarily Russian-centric nature of the concert. The Mussorgsky works nicely too as repose between the Schumann and the DSCH. If I may say so, in all humility, now an all-around "can't miss" concert program.^^
So where is my impressario / curator fee? Hehehe...
As an avid concert goer I guess mediocre run throughs of great works are more common in my experience than absolute disasters, but I did experience two which are forever etched in my conciouness. I still cringe when I think of them. One was a performance of Ariadne at Covent Garden with Jessye Norman as a wonderful Ariadne & a very distinguished but rather aged tenor (whom I won't name) as Bacchus who missed ALL his critical top notes in the final scene of the opera. The generally polite London audience booed him. He looked shattered. Another, even more poignant 'disaster' was a very famous & much esteemed pianist giving a beautiful recital towards the end of her illustrious career (again, I shan't name her) when about half way through the first movement of the Brahms 3rd sonata she stopped & exclaimed, "my God, I've forgotten! I just can't remember how it goes!"...a wave of goodwill floated up from the audience, but she couldn't continue.
Performing anything live can be a nightmare. I once did a theater performance and had a long monologue to remember, say 11 minutes. In the middle of one performance my mind went completely blank. I practiced it so many times the words mysteriously kept coming out (correctly). In my mind I was thinking, where the hell am I at? Then about 3 minutes later I figured it out and finished the monologue. I got lucky and my heart goes out to the pianist.
@@richmelvin2 yes I totally agree.
I too had the amazing misfortune of having to endure Bernard haitink in Carnegie Hall.
How any supposed major conductor could make that most iconic of symphonies the Beethoven 5th sound dull, well it's mind-boggling but BH
Managed to do it ! This with the Boston Symphony in an all Beethoven concert including calm sea and prosperous voyage and the wonderfully exciting or, should have been, Choral Fantasy
I think it was 2008-2009, my wife and I went to see a local period instrument group, here in Louisville Kentucky, they were playing one of CPE Bachs harpsichord concertos- so I had to go- it was in winter, and they had a hell of a time tuning the cat gut strings, a hell of a time! starting and stopping, and at one point my wife opened a bag of sweedish fish and we got the most evil eyed stares ever! 😂it was a blast
No really BAD concerts, but away back in groovy 1969 my piano teacher took me to hear Burgos and the L.A. Phil. There was some Hindemith (yawn) and a routine, dull-as-dishwater Mozart Violin Concerto from one James Oliver Buswell lll.
More horrible live concerts dirt-unveiling from both DH and various guest commentators, pleasepleaseplease...^^
When my undergraduate university orchestra played Mahler 6 I sat through the whole thing but wishing I had left after the first four notes.
I was at a local orchestra playing Beethoven's 5th where the double bass were clearly struggling in the Trio section of the Scherzo. If it weren't for the fact my friend was a soloist, I would have walked out
My post memorable dissapointment was in Birmingham (UK) some years back. Not the CBSO but a visiting orchestra, the Pittsburg no less, with Maazel. It was Mahler 6, the only work in the programme, but no exposition repeat - and we were short changed I thought. Especially given a somewhat bland performance which was followed by just one re-appearance by the conductor. An off-night, tiredness, or mabe they had a a plane to catch...?
A Beethoven 7th at Ravinia in the 1970s. Andrew Davis (not "Sir" yet) conducting the Chicago SO. Final chord, first movement, glaring wrong note by the horns, or a horn. It was as if one could hear the entire audience gasp. The horns of the Dallas SO when Anshel Brusilow was music director, and the first trumpet in the "Academic Festival Overture." The symphony was (is?), essentially, the DCO orchestra. "Fidelio," first opera ever presented in German at the DCO. Even Charles Mackerras (not "Sir" yet, as I recall) could not get the horns to play together, or to play correct notes in one place or another.
Orchestras on tour is always a bit of a crap shoot, but I'd say the worst concert I heard at Carnegie Hall was Bruckner's Ninth Symphony played by the Vienna Phil conducted by Pierre Boulez. Oh my. The dullest thing I've ever heard, also at Carnegie, was Muti conducting Mozart's Symphony No. 40 -- made even duller when he inexplicably took every single repeat in every movement.
Mr. Jilka, with which orchestra did Muti do the boring Mozart 40th? (He certainly was capable of exciting Mozart, going all the way back to his Pphilharmonia days.)
James Levine did that too with the Jupiter. Jupiter must have been taking his nap that day.
@@richardfrankel6102 That would have also been the Vienna Philharmonic as I heard Muti conduct that orchestra numerous times at Carnegie back in the day.
@@petejilka968 Thank you.
@@lawrencerinkel3243 Here's the thing: I don't mind performances of Mozart (or Schubert!) Symphonies with every single repeat...IF the conductor and the orchestra are so thrillingy alive and "in the moment" that they hold our attention throughout. And that is a very rare occurrence, indeed!
I feel lucky.
To this moment, apart from a very young, freshly-Graduated pianist which botched some notes in Chopin's "Heroic" Polonaise (the rest of the program was good) and a Youth Orchestra having some problems with intonation at the beginning of the second Movement of Dvořák's Ninth, I've never attended a bad concert.
Regarding programming two big works on one concert, like Nielsen's 3rd followed by daphnis and chloe, well I saw Temirkanov do a Tchaikovsky cycle in Glasgow some years ago, each concert combined an early symphony with a late one; terrible programming! The second symphony has a big noisy ending, and you feel satiated after it. To then embark on the 5th is too much. The 1st and 4th are both spiritual journeys ending in triumph. You can't go on two of those in one evening. The 3rd is a long symphony and definitely a second half work with a nice loud ending. Loudest last is good rule. The 6th is great, but I don't want to hear it so soon after the 3rd; I need at least a couple of weeks. Oh and there were big cuts in all the early symphonies, even the short 2nd.
A few years ago, I saw Muti conduct the Chicago Symphony on tour. During the double bass opening of the Schubert Unfinished, somebody let out the loudest, wettest, most obnoxious sneeze imaginable. It sounded like the person had a bullhorn. Muti craned his neck, glared like a demon in the direction of the sneeze…and proceeded to beat time for the remainder of the evening. I left at halftime.
Well, I went to a lot of amateur orchestra concerts when I was younger. Most smaller towns here in the UK have a provincial orchestra. Some are quite good, others well!!..... I remember a couple of times....one concert they played a Beethoven piano concerto, I think No 1. John Lill was the pianist, who was a good professional pianist, and the orchestra (screech) just like your Bruckner screech. Tbh John Lill held it together as best he could. But bless them all for trying..
Another time, they played Beethovens Ninth.....yes the ninth!! Tbh they got through it pretty well until the final coda..... when it fell apart.... I think we all clapped in sympathy, but bless them..
Another time.... and I can't remember the orchestra, possibly the Halle.... they played Bruckner 4, and he fluffed the opening horn theme, can you imagine?!? I think they creeked through the rest of it, without a hitch...
But live performances bring great responsibility on the performers, but I just enjoy the occasion. I don't scrutinize the performance too much..
Could you (or someone) suggest two recordings of the same pieces that greatly differ in quality of execution? I would love to listen to both and see if I can appreciate the difference with my novice ears. Love the channel!
For quality of execution, listen to the finale of Brahms' Third Symphony by Bruno Walter (Sony, stereo with the Columbia Symphony) and then by Furtwängler and the theoretically "great" Berlin Philharmonic on Warner.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Thank you!
If you have Spotify, you can find the Mahler symphonies performed by the Siam Philharmonic Orchestra. The seventh is a particular favourite; you can practically hear the trumpeters crying during the outer movements. Compare that performance to Haitink with the Concertgebouw Orchestra, and have fun.
@@shostakovich343 Thanks!
@@adamsasso1 When comparing the same piece of music it helps if you know the piece well so that you can pick out various things. If you can read music use a scoref (there are music videos with scores). Find something you know well on youtube. Pick one with somebody famous and another with a conductor and orchestra unknown to you. Enjoy, JIM
I believe I heard a version of the Abbado Berlin Philharmonic Mahler 5. On that tour they also came to Washington DC. The trumpet made it through the opening ok, but the rest WAS dull. Professionally played, but dull. The only time I've heard the Berlin live. A big disappointment...
I saw a recent concert by red dot baroque, a baroque ensemble in Singapore. Pergolesi's stabat matar with 6 players, one to a part. No vibrato. The sound was anemic and the cellist couldn't resist just adding a bit of vibrato at the end after enduring the whole night without a touch of it. I cannot complain because it was free however.
An NSO Mahler 4, conducted by Leonard Slatkin. Absolutely nothing wrong with the performance. But there was a guy about 10 rows in back of me who could not stop the most fruity, phlegmy coughing that you have ever had the misfortune to hear. I finally had enough, went back to him -- during the first movement -- and told him that if he couldn't control himself, to leave. He did shut up somewhat after that. The ushers -- I complained to them, too -- showed no interest in evicting him.
One of the worst performances I heard was by David Fray. Originally this concert was not in my subscription but I bought the ticket from an acquaintance, wish I hadn't. Fray had a programme with only Bach. He played on a Steinway in the big hall of the Concertgebouw in Amsterdam. This hall has a famous but also a long reverb. When Fray started, a wall of sound came towards me. The use of the pedal with the reverb made it impossible to listen to. Perhaps at the piano it sounded great but I couldn't hear any details, voicing. Walked out at the interval, couldn't stand it.
At another concert I walked out during the performance and at the cloakroom I met other people who also had sneaked out. We were all relieved we had gotten out.
The first time I heard The Ninth was with Yakov Kreizberg and NedPho. The conductor, orchestra, choir and soloists all arrived at a different time at the last bar. Kreizberg started the last movement already at such a high tempo that no one could follow him at the accelerandi. I talked to the second first violonist later that evening and he said that they skipped notes just trying to keep up with the insane tempi. Never heard such a screeching from soloists trying to phrase the words they were supposed to sing. The choir already fell internally apart but they turned into a clueless, mumbling group.
Not necessarily the worst ever, but memorable for the wrong reasons. Sometime in the late 70s,I was standing in the Promenade at the Albert Hall, waithing to hear Sir Charles Groves conduct Beethoven 7. At the appointed time he strode onto the podium, resplendent in red cummerbund, surveyed the orchestra, then walked off. He returned a few minutes later to address the audience who, he said, were owed an explanation. The trumpeters had failed to turn up and he would not perform Beethoven without trumpets. However they had been contacted and the concert would begin as soon as they arrived. So, about half an hour late, the performance commenced. It was marked,as I recall, more by vigour and fury than refinement and precision. On the way out, I overheard one of the musicians say 'You get away with anything with Charlie Groves'.
The two trumpet players (whom I knew) were in the pub; they had assumed that the Beethoven Symphony would be in the 2nd half and they had nothing else to do. Both were superb players but the 1st trumpet (sadly, no longer with us) was notorious for turning up at the wrong hall and/or on the wrong day. I remember sitting around waiting for him to turn up to rehearse the Haydn concerto. It turned out that he was in the hall where we were playing the next day (I was not in the same regular orchestra as him by the way - he was a guest soloist on those days).
Artery clogging... 🤣🤣🤣
Regarding the Haitink Mussorgsky, Shostakovich, Schumann concert that you mentioned..that entire concert was broadcast (Over 2 separate programs). I was in the listening audience with tape recorder going...I was 16 years old at the time and that was the first time I had ever heard the Shostakovich Symphony No. 6. I became enthralled with that work based on that broadcast (Shostakovich 6 is still my favorite Shostakovich Symphony). Unfortunately, I no longer have the tape of that broadcast (I missed the Schumann broadcast).
I believe concerts should end not with the loudest work or the work that uses the largest number of players, but the work with the greatest emotional impact. I don't know that I would ever put Schumann 2 on the same program with Shostakovich 6, but if I were to do that I would definitely end with the Shostakovich. Perhaps Mr. Haitink was thinking that the Schumann was more familiar to most people and so it would come off better at the end?
I went to a concert played by the Hannover Band in Carnegie Hall in '94. They played the Eroica symphony on the first half and on the 2nd half we heard a Weber clarinet concerto ending with the Schumann Symphony No. 4. Odd right?
I don't know if it's odd. Mahler used to put the biggest work first because he wanted the audience to be fresh, but it depends on how long the concert is.
Mine was Lugansky in Hong Kong , he was playing Rach 3 and while he didn't missed a note , it was hands down the most boring Rach 3 I have ever heard .
It would seem obvious: the louder work comes last, unless it is a pops-like work (let us say Hidemith's Symphonic Metamorphoses on themes by Weber, which should be excellent as a pops piece. Really! What's not to like!
The Russians took over as the biggest players on the symphonic scene after Mahler died,
So... any Mozart, Haydn, Beethoven, Schubert (except his ninth!), or Mendelssohn (except the choral 2nd) symphony would naturally precede Prokofiev's Fifth. On the other side I would put Sibelius' soft-spoken sixth (the psychiatrist says, "listen to Sibelius' Sixth Symphony and call me in the morning") would precede Schubert's Ninth on that principle. Having the quieter work last is one way to asleep. Overtures, even if Wagner, come first.
So, did the customer like the liver/onions/mint patties?
All I know is that he (it was a "he") ate it and tipped the waitress. Go figure...
@@DavesClassicalGuide I think Gordon Ramsey should know about this...
I'll offer one where I almost lost the will to live - Lorin Maazel, Philharmonia Orchestra, Mahler Sixth at RFH. A Sluggish, undercharacterised, performance which was so boring even a member of the orchestra was yawning (a double bass player if memory serves me correctly).
My worst concert experiences generally happened while I was a participant. One that comes to mind was a workshop involving the Kansas City Orchestra in the late 1970s. Several students were invited to play along, and the organizers thought it would be a good idea to separate the strings and the winds. And to make matters a lot worse, the powers-that-be thought putting together a bunch of college students with limited rehearsal time would be the perfect opportunity to perform Hindemith's Symphony for Band. I was playing piccolo for the sad event and had to chew my lip as the band would get lost, ensemble would fall to pieces, and the poor conductor was forced to stage whisper "pick it up at measure 167" several times at several places. It was mortifying! I don't remember the rest of the concert, possibly due to shock.
I played the band symphony too. Look at the bright side--you can play measure 167ff a dozen times without anyone realizing it was being repeated.
I have a request. Could you give Zoltan Kolday's "Hary Janos Suite" a little love? I feel like it is falling off the radar.
Already did a video on it. Have a look.
@@DavesClassicalGuide Many Thanks! I had forgotten.
Agreed. The Hary Janos Suite is lovely, and nothing to be sneezed at ;)
Try finding someone these days who can play that Cimbalon part! That's one reason the suite doesn't show up on concerts.
I'll give you my pick of one of the most impressive live concerts that I ever heard, the 70th anniversary concert of the Israel Philharmonic Orchestra (it appeared on PBS in the USA) and it was just amazing. It consisted of Brahms' first piano concerto (Barenboim was the soloist), Max Bruch's first violin concerto, and Ravel's La Valse. Oddly the three composers' had 22 years of overlap in their lifespans, so it is not as if the IPO was having Haydn with Shostakovich or something like that.
On hearing Brahms' first piano concerto I could only think "I didn't know that Brahms was Jewish!" Bruch's first violin concerto -- I had forgotten after about ten years that it was on the program, but Zukerman did it well. Finally, Ravel's La Valse had a menacing treatment of its atmosphere, as if to suggest what was going on when the IPO was founded with recent members of German orchestras. Basically, get away as quickly as possible from a continent going mad with hatred! Europe is no longer the Gemutlichkeit of Viennese waltzes!
The uneasy menacing atmosphere of La Valse does not come from the performance, it is intrinsic to the music. It's a feature, not a bug--the IPO was just doing its job. Arthur Rubinstein said it was like dancing on a volcano--evidently he was quoting Ravel.
I once went to an L.A. Philharmonic concert that had some awful piece by Schnittke - all banging and clanging -we literally laughed out loud and had to leave. :-) I get so annoyed by this practice of having these "west coast premieres" of composers in residence who produce usually complete crap. Instead, when I had been interviewed by phone (twice!) by the L.A. Philharmonic I told them there's PLENTY of UNPLAYED beautiful 20th century music that NEVER gets performed. I will kill myself with one more program of a Tchaikovsky symphony or a dreaded Beethoven 6 or (worse) the 7th. It's so bad now in this respect that I actually STOPPED GOING TO LIVE CONCERTS. I am fine going to the opera but the L.A. Philharmonic no longer gets my dollars (Disney Hall however is a beautiful and great sounding venue I should say). Anyway, I am huge fan of modern music but trying to find concerts that are just the wee bit adventurous has only gotten worse than trying to coax Pandora when requesting classical music to play more than 5 selections before repeating the original piece. I musical curmudgeon am I !
Its better to arrive late. They always put the pieces of poop at the beginning. A william schuman overture . We are forced to pay for what we came for by enduring the educational section. Id love a concert thats all music we want to hear.
Do more live concert reviews here! Maybe you can save us from spending so much money seeing these people.
Last week in Vienna we had Thielemann doing Bruckner 6th
One of the dullest nights in memory…
You would have had to pay me--a lot--to go see that.
I wonder if the overall outcome would have been better had Abbado stopped the orchestra and started from scratch.
My one live experience of a world class orchestra was the Concertgebouw Orchestra under Jansons with before the intermission Pictures at an Exhibition, and after it La Mer. Just over an hour's worth of ucis, but hey.
No prizes for guessing what happened at the start of part 1 with the trumpet solo...!
The real concert from hell, however, was in the late 70s. I must start by expressing great gratitude to my then school, where every year without fail the Utrecht Symphony Orchestra showed up to play an evening's concert with at least one soloist. They were highlights in the year for me. Stand-outs where seeing a very young Ed Spanjaard conduct, and a Mozart concerto with Michele Boegner, and Emmy Verhey - I believe in Beethoven's. Yes, there were some real names there! Another great concert (though not with the USO of course) was Mozart's Gran Partita and Schubert's Octet. Substantial fare! All that in a provicial school in a pretty small village. Unthinkable today.
One who did not yet have a name to speak of was Ivan Fischer, who did an all-Mozart programme with the Linz symphony and two piano concertos. The unfortunate thing there was the soloist, Ferenc Rados, who played like a lumberjack with a grudge. It was truly staggeringly awful and unbelievable. It was recorded for radio (never transmitted, surprise, surprise) and as the final movement of the last concerto was the worst of all, they decided on an encore of that same movement. Audible groans in the audience, and a well-deserved loud "BOOO" at the end right through the final chord, which made that particular take unusable also. Still, Fischer was fine in the symphony, and the orchestra was as well, Any applause was for them alone.
Wouter van Doorn
Wow! Thanks for the memories!
I saw Ivo Pogorelich play the Rachmaninoff 2nd Piano Concerto with the Detroit Symphony in 1999, with Neeme Jarvi conducting. Ivo took such a slow tempo it lasted 55 minutes. The whole first movement was like Largo-Adagio. Rach 2 usually is about 30-35 minutes. Jarvi kept looking back at Ivo and that just made him want to play even slower lol. I must say it was neat to hear a performance that pushes the "slow envelope" 😀, it was different lol.
@@keybawd4023 yes I remember hearing that. It may have been Philadelphia where he got booed, can't remember exactly. When Ivo was in his prime he was unstoppable.
@@keybawd4023 yes he has had some weird phases no doubt!
LOL!