I have seen many comments from women, across social media, all sharing their experiences with sexual harassment and "sexual harassment." Some have complained about men asking them out to dinner, or complimenting them and all this basic shit. I noticed many seemed very annoyed and tired of this behaviour, but they hadn't reported it or even told the man directly that his attention was unwanted. Some went to dinner with them and had assumed it was work related. Jesus Christ, I have had male customers make uncomfortable comments towards me in work, and have had strangers on the street pass comment. It is DEEPLY uncomfortable, but a single comment made on a single occasion is not harassment. They have to be persistent in order for it to be harassment. If a male coworker asks you to dinner or makes a flirtatious comment towards you, you have to be direct and say, "No thank you." Or "Please do not continue to make those kinds of comments, they are not appreciated or wanted." Guys need more than a hint. Some of them are really that bad at reading subtly. If someone physically touched you in a way which was clearly innapropriate, then yes, different case altogether, but a man saying you look good at a Christmas party is hardly a crime.
Even the inappropriate touch can be them trying to signal interest in you or merely being friendly, and not sexually harassing you. Context matters in all these situations but feminists and other women due to the panic are quick to label anything that makes them feel like harassment, as harassment. An example would be a hand placed on the shoulder. It isn't sexual and I've had men and women do this to me and every time it makes me uncomfortable as I am not big on touching.
"a single comment made on a single occasion is not harassment. They have to be persistent in order for it to be harassment." If a woman keeps leading a man on, you can't blame the man if he keeps trying.
People seem to think that this feminist sexual assault/harassment hysteria started just recently. I can remember back in the late 70's/early 80's when I first started working for a particular employer who had a zero tolerance policy on sexual harassment in the work place. Even asking a woman co-worker out for a date was considered sexual harassment, and just a formal complaint could get a man summarily terminated with no two weeks notice, no severance pay, just security escorting him off of company grounds and never being allowed back again for any reason. I can remember being excoriated by feminists at work for telling a woman co-worker that I thought she looked quite beautiful in a particular outfit that she had worn that day, or for calling a woman a 'girl' once, or for looking down at a woman's open and highly visible cleavage, and I feared for my job over it. But I thought that it was highly hypocritical that women could ask male co-workers out for dates, tell male co-workers that they were handsome, call male co-workers boys, and make comments about admiring male co-workers' butts without any fear of any repercussions at all. And all this time feminists kept claiming that all they wanted was equality!
Exactly. The Duluth Model, the first known instance of institutional criminalization of masculinity, stems from 1981. Feminists have been pushing to translate the demonization of men into policy and law since at least the early 1980's.
“But I thought that it was highly hypocritical that women could ask male co-workers out for dates, tell male co-workers that they were handsome, call male co-workers boys, and make comments about admiring male co-workers' butts without any fear of any repercussions at all.” - If they could, that must have been because men at your employer tolerated that inequality.
Your assumption that all of the managers at my employer were men is false. Actually a lot of the managers were women. And when it came to a dispute between women and men co-workers, women were given preference over men because feminists would raise all holy he** if they weren't, claiming that the company was being misogynist. With all of the public complaints from feminists of sexism and misogyny in the work place and society in general, nobody really cared to stand up for us men, least of all women managers. I could tell you of a lot of other examples of the double standard that prevailed because feminists publicly raised so much he** about misogyny. Another example that really ticked me off was when some women in the office sent out e-mails to everyone in the office with long lists of jokes that had men as the fools in them. I took one of those e-mails one time and rewrote the jokes, reversing the gender roles in them, and sent the e-mail back out to all of the original recipients. I was reprimanded for sending out an e-mail with jokes denigrating women. When I pointed out that the jokes were originally sent to me with the gender roles reversed, I was informed that it was OK to send out e-mails like that with men as the fools in them, but not OK to send out e-mails like that with women as the fools in them. Once again, the managers deciding this were----women. And going to HR about it didn't do me any good either. Guess what gender generally staffed the HR dept.--Women.
What C Laird says here is very, very true. Men being fired on nothing but an allegation and being denied due process has been happening for decades and the media won't talk about it.
Women need to learn to work with men as they are or go home. Our workplace rules have criminalized normal male behavior and this sex scare is likely to do even more harm. It was a mistake to ever involve companies in the enforcement of crimes. If a man commits a crime at work, it should be reported to law enforcement, not the HR department.
Perhaps your right about crime being reported to law enforcement and not HR. (If we're talking sexual harrassment) The only reason why I see HR taking it seriously is because they are afraid of getting sued - claiming that an environment is unsafe to work in. Then comes the definition of what is normal male behavior? Every culture is different and when a male crosses from one to another what may be normal in his culture may not be normal in the next place. Similiarly, that goes for females. --- If we are talking about no cultural difference, then the male will act normal in front of everyone else and then harass you when no one is around. When you report it you look like the crazy one because no one can see or has seen what you are talking about.
This is where you are wrong. If men or women commits a crime at WORK, you need to report it to HR department after that yes law enforcement. For example when at school or college you need to go through teacher first before you can go to clinics or hospital. I think you need to check back what is the function of HR department. if what I'm saying is wrong maybe my lecturer just teach a lie to me then.
@@hamkaida You don't need to do any of this. Laws were passed that made employers responsible for these things. That was a mistake and these laws should be repealed. Schools and businesses have no law enforcement expertise and should not be involved in law enforcement.
It is NOT a "welcome development" that women are being elevated to supremacy in the workplace. Where is the massive obsession with women who sexually harass men in the workplace? When we see equal concern for the sexual harassment and sexual assault that women commit, in the workplace and elsewhere, then, and only then, will we have a "welcome development."
she lost me when she said "we need rules to rid us of creeps" a man's creepiness level is entirely subjective and inverse to his perceived attractiveness level by the woman.
C Hipp yeah. She should know better than to use a word like that. It clearly only applies to men, and not women. The word creep is a tool of male bashing.
Yeah but just because men initiate everything. I think what she meant was quite clear. Guys like Kevin Spacey pushing himself onto someone. Nothing wrong with that. It's not about men approaching women but generally unwanted approach. That society expects that from men (making the first move) is nobody's fault. She just stated the status quo.
I agree. If a man is "creepy", it usually means he is socially awkward or poor. If a woman is socially awkward (or even as crazy as Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction") most (heterosexual) men don't give a shit (perhaps they should). Men definitely don't judge women as "creepy" because they're poor or socially awkward. Unless a man is acting like Norman Bates or Hannibal Lector or engaging in real harassment, "creepiness" is just another female way of shaming and putting down men.
.... Yes it genuinely is. You just have to ignore it I suppose. Human sexuality is a very powerful urge and, and you can;t let the totalitarian state try to interfere. This is going to damage a lot of people. This is all very elitist shit. Academics at University of Auckland are claiming that sandwich jokes are violent and that asking a woman if she is a virgin should be met with jail time.
There is an rapidly growing number of men who are opting for sex robots. You can't make this up. Our society is so broken that men are opting for a sex-robots over an actual woman. And with the current technology they are looking scare real. I don't blame them since your life can so easily be destroyed by a woman's whim these days I just don't think the majority of women have a clue of how badly it has become. Here's a video about women being replaced by robots. ua-cam.com/video/dTFzBFTlMm0/v-deo.html
I’m a male, and I love the way she explains these problems that we face as a society. She explains these things calmly, and she isn’t biased to one side.
Actually you kind of made Mike Pence’s point for him. All the examples you posted had multiple people together in them which lowers the opportunity. I remember in the old office movies a lot of the offices had half glass windows and or doors. Maybe this was the reason to stop office rumors from being created. I know my own deceased father said he would never allow one to one conferences. Always 3 people or more for that reason. It protected everyone’s reputation.
The public needs to be seriously be made aware of the fact that allegations are not synonymous with truth. Guys record every encounter with women and have them sign a consent form before hand to being recorded it’s the only way to keep you safe otherwise for the most part just stay away from women as much as possible especially at work
It’s a good idea... although she can just say she changed her mind after signing and “the man” didn’t respect that. There’s no way around it. Men are screwed from all angles.
I see so many defensive men in the comments saying the rise in allegations makes them worry that they too might be caught up in a scandal. That’s basically saying every allegation is false and so we need to worry about the scheming woman who might tarnish your career.
bla blahblah Shame this is all entirely irrelevant in the UK (where I am). We are allowed to record conversations but only for our own purposes - if the recordings are shared it becomes a crime. They can be used to prevent or as evidence of a crime but it’s unclear as of yet (not been tested in law) whether it could be used as defence in a criminal case. The defendant risks getting additional charged added on for sharing a recording of a private conversation.
faultroy A great point! Both Hoff-Sommers and Paglia have been saying this is a while now: “(post-) modern feminism is infantilising women. It’s diametrically opposed to what women fought for in the 60s and 70s. 2nd wave Feminism (which I’m also not a fan of, as an aside) at least fought for women to be treated like adults and equals (in one way but not every) sexually. These days feminists want men to bear all the responsibility for every sexual encounter making us believe that woman don’t have the ability to consent or not but wanting the right to be able to consent or not retrospectively based on how the woman feels the next day/week/year/decade.
Puritanism really doesn't seem so silly in the context. If women are going to wildly make sexual allegations if someone merely flirts with them, which can destroy a man, or a company even, it would make sense to never be alone with a woman co-worker, to make everything public, ever record everything to mitigate what actually presents as a financial liability. In fact, it would make sense under those circumstances not to even hire women, given women make such complaints, and men do not. Used to be puritanism protected society from such things - women had chaperones, no sex before marriage, marry if you get someone pregnant etc. The "harshness" of traditionalism protected men from false allegations, and women from impropriety whilst defending the lives of children. In this "listen and believe" culture, interacting with women at all, in a professional context, is a liability vaguely akin to dabbling in herbal potions during the salem witch trials..
As a male employee, I would never deign to have a meeting with any employee without benefit of both a witness and recording of the proceedings, and these decades-old allegations mentioned in the video are the reason why. It's a simple matter to fabricate a complaint against a supe whenever there's an ax to grind, even if it's for the express purpose of extortion. A sane society would recognize this and respond appropriately, but that leaves us out, doesn't it? What is blithely labeled 'male averse feminism' here is actually the nascent stages of targeting all males for reprisal...
Christina, while I agree with most of what you've said here, I have a few squabbles. 1. labeling men "monsters" and "creeps" is never a path toward solving the problem. Those labels allow people to dismiss (male) perpetrators as evil without having to understand the root causes of the behavior, and you can't solve any problem you can't understand. Creep is also a very gender-specific term. It only applies to men, never women, and in many workplaces a woman only has to put the vague label of "creepy" on a man to put him at risk, whether he deserves it or not. Please don't contribute to the weaponization of that word. 2. Why is it that we are only concerned with sexual harassment? It's merely one type of abuse of power and not necessarily the worst. Well, clearly we give it extra weight because it's the type of harassment that women are most concerned about and that they can use to diminish men and make a claim that there should be more women in charge. Very convenient. There are people who go to work every day only to be belittled and screamed at, both by men and women bosses, and who suffer greatly for it. I was harassed by a woman boss to the point that I needed therapy and medication, but it doesn't count because there was no sexual component to it? I would much rather she had flirted with me than belittle me and constantly threaten my job. Any form of harassment by a superior should be taken just as seriously as sexual harassment and dealt with in the same way, but that stance doesn't pander to and satisfy feminists, so there's no discussion of it. You claim sexual harassment laws were designed to protect workers from bullying, coercion, and extortion. No, they were designed to protect women from a very specific type of behavior. If you're being harassed by a terrible boss, and there's nothing sexual about it, good luck taking that to HR. You're the one likely to be fired. 3. While you don't like the idea that men are being cautious about being with women at work, and that women could pay a price for it, it is with good reason that men are fearful. You say you worry about witch hunts, but don't seem to think that men should be fearful of it because most people seem to be working in harmony. In this climate, every man fears that it only takes an accusation and his job and career are over immediately. Women have no interest in taking men's fears seriously because they really don't care about men. They only care about themselves. And they believe that women's fears are "real" while men's aren't. I hope you get a chance to read this and respond.
Unfortunately, that's not how it goes in the public eye. It's interesting to see how many lives can be ruined on allegations and if it's found to be false no one cares that the person's life is already ruined and rarely does anyone ever read the updates of it being a false allegation
Most of these men have never even been charged. Whole lives, careers and projects have been reduced to ruins on nothing but allegations. Due process is dead. And women call it a victory. As a man who has been sexually harassed by women more than once; and will not receive due process and I'm effectively NOT equal before the law: I'M DONE WITH WOMEN. I don't want to be alone in the same room with them ever. I don't date at all anymore. I don't attend office parties. And increasingly I don't respect what women do or have to say. I wasn't always like this, but this is how it is now. Women and feminists have irreparable damaged gender relations. And fixing it is not my fucking job.
Normally I agree with Professor Hoff Sommers but one of her remarks struck me as somewhat naive. She regarded rules such as the one suggested by Timothy Noah as "silly and infantilizing" (1:39) In a sane world, she would be right, but we don't live in a sane world, do we!? We live in a world where men have to take extreme precautions bordering on paranoia in order to protect themselves from the possibility of false sexual assault accusations. I think the phrase she should have used is "regrettably necessary".
1:00 "everyone loses, especially women." Based mom or not, this gynocentric comment clearly shows that she's still a feminist. We, as a society, have an issue with feeling empathy for men, accepting that they can be the primary victims of crimes and sins and harmful ideologies and unfortunately Ms Sommers is no exception.
I think you're reading far too much into that comment. Christina does have a reasonable explanation for that statement. We've all heard the joke "Asteroid collides with earth and kills humanity, women most affected" however Christina is right if you put what she said into context. After-hours collaboration between men would likely go unnoticed/unrestricted after policy changes and so men would benefit but women would indeed be worse off due to the policy changes... Which is what she was saying. Furthermore she clarifies that these sorts of policies and gender panic are aimed at infantilizing women - so that also means that women would be more affected because they're the ones being infantilized. You make people who express actual concerns of gynocentrism look bad with braindead comments like yours and trying to paint Christina as some sort of marxist-Feminist just makes you look like a conspiracy nut.
I just simply don't flirt with or ask women out at work. Don't gawk at their bodies. Keep your hands to yourself. Eye contact only. I don't date women at work. I rather enjoy the hurt look in their eyes when I recoil from their touch. As a result in working in 90% female environments, my female co workers gossiped that I was gay. This was to protect their fragile egos of course. Oh well, being fake gay gave me a protected status that I could turn against them and use to my advantage. And, I sometimes did. I wish more guys would do this. Protect your careers and your reputations. You want sex? Go to swing clubs where getting it requires little or no effort.
The only thing I would add is that I never, ever make any comment whatsoever about the physical appearance or attire of female colleagues. If “she” was to turn up at the office in a g-string or a chicken costume, she will get a friendly, “good morning! Howe are you?” From me, nothing more.
While I understand what you're trying to say, the reality is that all it takes is one allegation (false or otherwise) to ruin a man's career and life. And I don't blame men for not wanting to take that risk. As for that statement that everyone is making about gender segregated workforce harming women, that's the price women are going to pay for letting feminists make the rules and regulations.
If the modern woman wouldn't act like an infant, we wouldn't have to treat them accordingly. We stopped having shop parties, and I keep audio of every phone call and conversation with female employees. To be honest, the risks of having women in the workplace are rapidly outweighing the reward.
"We don't need a sex panic" says the person who has no chance of losing everything because of allegations of impropriety. I think it's a damn smart idea for men to protect themselves and their female co workers. I'm not sure why this is even a question. Women's safety and men's reputations are more important. It's a small price to pay to clean up this mess that has gotten so far out of hand.
Evne as someone with a deep social anxeity, I know that one of the most important factors to improve a career is networking. That is not something I blame everyone else for, even though I often wish every single person in this world would disappear... or at least die painfully in a fire, on a good day. :-p I accept that it means I'm probably not going to be a millionair at any point in this lifetime, and instead I found a job that I like doing and that got a decent enough pay. (And to be honest, I feel like a majority of people, at least where I live prefere a job they like with a decent pay, over working a job that becomes stressful in hope of getting a larger paycheck later.) But what happens when men starts to be afraid of socializing with women, especially those men who have a say when it comes to promotions, who have to be extra careful not to say or look in a way that some female might use to ruin his career? When socializing with women become a high enough risk for men, they will stop socializing with anyone that carry that risk, and as such when looking at who would be a good choise for a promotion or a new job opening, the people they know well enough to believe they have skills the job takes, will be men. Every day it seems more and more like the new wave of feminism is more about female supremacy, validated because men used to rule throughout history, so now women need to have a couple of million years where they oppress men to balance it out. But just like white supremacists never managed to conquere the world, neither did black supremacy or male supremacy for that matter... and neither will female supremacy. If women truely was so much wiser than men, one would think that they at least knew how to learn from history... but somehow they clearly aren't, and it strangely looks like we are all just mere humans :-)
Dude, there are dozens of criminal laws that apply only to men. The FBI doesn't even consider a woman enveloping a man's genitals rape, and in UK law only men can be rapists. We've been living in a female supremacy world for decades, you just never realized it.
I love this woman! When my buddy and we’re bar hopping last week one woman grabbed my ass and giggles with her friends as she ran away. At the last bar of the night a woman licked my friend on the face. No “hello”, just drunkenly walked off. Should I have called the cops? No. Women need to grow a pair.
Having been in the workplace now for 25 years, ironically I have actually become sexist. Working with women is so fraught with danger that it must if at all possible be avoided. This is particularly manifest in those important team building exercises often in a social setting. I will of course engage with a woman in the workplace professionally and courteously but the risks of even that are so manifest that when it comes to "going down the pub after work", then if there are any woman there I will either not go or cry off after one drink and go home. Feminism encourages women to break their "social contract" which men by being in essence juvenile. Again , ironically, if a woman indicates that she prefers to deal with any issues / misunderstandings or even unwanted advances at the time / in the flesh and like a grown up, rather than running to HR / Twitter then she can come to the pub. Even more ironically, she is more likely to be promoted because it is in the pub where wider issues are discussed, hidden talents and capabilities come to light that I might otherwise be unaware of. Is this sexist? Probably. Is this Gynophobia? Probably not, that would indicate an irrational fear of women, and for example - Christina Hoff Summers can come to the pub, no issues at all :)
This vis misses two important points in my view 1/ Mens rea + actus reus: There has to be not only a criminal act but criminal intent. If a woman comes to work in a low cut blouse both men (and women) will not be able to not notice it. So a man being caught 'glancing' at the exposed flesh is not guilty of anything. If he's intentionally staring at her breasts then that's another thing - but I would still question if the woman is completely innocent in this case 2/ For minor cases we don't need to run directly to authorities who are now bound by social justice to pursue every case no matter how trivial. Case in hand: Michael Fallon / Julia Hartley-Brewer. She dealt with the case, end of.
As a business owner .. I haven't hired a woman for two years .. I only hire males . I have 2 left .. I find I'm quiet around them because of political correctness .. I can't be me .. Once they move on it will be men only .. Hedi is close to retirement .. Julie is going overseas travel for a year .. I have told her I will not guarantee her place she is devastated ...Good workers but the feminist movement is strong against white males .. I am cutting the risks .
marco amato now the feminists will attack you for your choices of workers. Either you have women and have a high chance of stupid sexual assault claims or have all, hard working men but have feminists barking down your throat about male privilege and shit
If they come at you, bud, you can always reply with, "Well, this is what happens when you let radical feminists cut your nose off to spite your face.".
Having worked in education for nearly a quarter of a century I can say that the rules you're describing what I have lived with an under virtually my entire career. I am never alone with anyone the door closed all offices will have Windows they don't have window the door will remain open. For those of you who have not lived in this world welcome to it if you are male you are the target for anyone who wishes to destroy your career with two words.
there is no other form of assault or harassment that would be taken seriously years after the fact. im sorry but its obvious that these woman made the choice to use their sexuality to get ahead instead of doing the right thing and pressing charges when it happened. this seems like just another feminist culture "have you cake and eat it too" situation. not even defending 1, 2, 10 men who broke laws...they should have been charged and arrested. these women hurt more women by not doing anything, they were selfish. had no problem draping themselves over these men in countless photos and keeping quiet if it benefited them. if we wanna address the elephant in the room we can talk about how female sexuality is "currency" and has always been on a biological level. this is vastly abused in modern times and everybody knows that and 99% of it is positive. the amount of things men do for women vs what they would do for any other man is unbalanced to say the least and for the most part men always felt a sense of pride that we were able to "woo" the girl of our dreams. its always been a transaction and it was a benefit to both men and women...but now men are demonized for it so fuck, cant win. then we just throw in the towel
I really wish we could get all feminists to believe in Christina Hoff Sommers unicorn feminism. Life would be so much better for everyone, including said feminists.
I'm tempted to say that we should just ride this wave out. The smart people in the work force will get the picture and realise the policies are just unworkable in the modern world. I'm one of the few that just refuse to deal with females without a witness of some variety to prevent the damage of a sexual harassment statement but its a growing movement.
My company had a compulsory Sexual Harassment Seminar every year in which they could not tell us what sexual harassment is. Any woman could get any man fired at any time. And no, to any smartass reading my words, this did not happen to me. But I witnessed it. If a woman says "He makes me uncomfortable," how do you defend yourself against that?
We (men) have always been warned *not* to be alone after hours with women. At the end of the day it's your words against hers. Who are they going to believe.
I always appreciate your perspective and insights but with respect I disagree. Until we can publicly join with Tom Golden to say, "men are good," without being accused of misogyny, the only rational course for men is to go on strike against the system, John Galt style, and join the ranks of MGTOW.
A bureaucrat I know said he liked his job until it became predominately women. Now he spends an inordinate amount of time intervening in cat fights. His wife agreed. Another old guy in the trades would not work on projects if woman were involved because they caused more trouble than they were worth. www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html New Rule: Never tell a woman that they are pretty especially if they are pretty.
This is why M.G.T.O.W wins end the game by not playing it. Like my hero Lord Humongous once said "Just walk away" as men there is nothing left for us here just walk away. Let this world rot and burn give it give it only your back to look at.
Hard pass sister, I would not be caught dead alone with a subordinate. This #metoo deal should scare the life out of men and should make majority of us not deal with women.
Pence was 100 percent correct. If you value your career stay away from female co workers period. Don't hug them don't even shake their hands just keep it at good morning, good afternoon, and goodnight.
Christina I think it's about time to accept that the word and original meaning of 'feminism' has been lost to extremists. You should consider to join the thousands who describe themselves as equalists instead.
I'm sorry but guys need to protect themselves from false allegations bc he will lose everything on an accusation with zero proof. I personally avoid any women inside the work place.
I wish this issue wouldn't keep side stepping men who have been victims of sexual misconduct. It's been woefully silent on male victims and I don't believe for a second that there aren't any.
She didn't offer any solutions, The Pence Rule of never being alone with women protects the men involved. Sure you can say it hurts the progress of women in the office but what is a man supposed to do? I've been doing it for 3 years now, one of the best decision I've made in the work place.
As a man who has had a working with children card for much of the last two decades, I refuse to allow other people's kids to play out our house without either their parent or my wife around. My reputation is too important to waste on a potential false accusation in fifteen years time. I've seen too many male teachers who have had their lives destroyed or threatened by false accusations by female students who simply don't like them. This is one reason why men don't want to become teachers.
I had a conversation with a male manager that was very stressed because of a situation in his team where a woman has accused an entire team of developers of harassment. It turned out that this woman had mental issues and none of it was true. Everyone was so scared and stressed. The manager told me that he did realize what it means to hire a woman in the team, implying he won't do it again. I think this is one of the backlashes the women are going to feel more and more. I am a woman and I had my share of unwanted attention in my life but I dealt with them myself by clearly defining boundaries. We need to be strong enough to deal with the issues ourselves, a system to get help when we can't solve it ourselves and a neutral and good investigative body that would fairly assess the problems and offer a solution.
Pence's rule is a great rule. It is common sense protection for men and women and from shenanigans. The only other way to protect yourself from false accusations or unwanted advances would be to video record every interaction, every minute with anybody else, every day. This is what happens when we as a country stopped teaching character. Now we are scrambling to bring it back.
Mike Pence represents all the men I know. It's wisdom manifested. I wholeheartedly agree. As a woman this is what I do as well. Married people have no protection from allegations made by members of the opposite sex.
Thank you, Christina Hoff-Sommers. It probably goes without saying that I'm a straight, white, male. However, I appreciate your sense and reason. Thanks for speaking out against these scares, and standing up for men on the majority who behave decently to one another.
This is the problem I can't say hey you look pretty or oh nice haircut because I can get charged with sexual harassment this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard
Christina I believe this is the first time I've disagreed with you. I believe Mike Pence's rule was Vindicated. As a man I have never needed a one-on-one dinner or late night work session with one of my superiors to be mentored. I feel like the problem is we too many times think we can have your cake and eat it too. I would rather my career suffer then my wife ever have to wonder or worry about my actions.
If your wife needs to be at every encounter to trust your actions that in itself may be a concern. However that is your decision to make, having it as some enforceable policy treats everyone as teenagers which can't have adult 1:1 conversations without a chaperone everywhere.
Garith21, that's a short-sighted view. I have mentored quite a few employees and colleagues, male and female, and never once did I need to do it outside of the workplace. I am mentoring their work performance and knowledge, not their personal lives. So, if I choose to keep it that way, to insure above-board perception of behavior, so be it. No one loses in that equation.
Some people like going the extra mile in wanting to know how to improve and need extra work. This should be for them to decide as individuals. Just because you feel no one misses out because you are safer doesn't mean no one misses out when such a policy becomes enforceable. If you decide to make that choice that's your decision and there's nothing wrong in that, but there's no getting around the fact that making such a policy enforcable makes everyone out to be teenagers that need a chaperone everywhere. Not to mention some issues where having multiple managers in the same closed room can feel more intimidating than one but that's a different issue.
Hey hey, trying to have a friendship outside of work? Impossible, we're all simply robots that exist for work and even though work is where we spend a lot of our awake time we can't possibly be friends with people we work with outside of work and anyone in management position must be hermits to everyone they work with.
"This male averse feminism is not mainstream" I love you Christina, but you're wrong. It's YOUR version of feminism that's not mainstream. Not even in the slightest. Still, keep up the good work and thanks for the vid.
Sorry, but there is no mentorship that requires women or men to be alone with their opposite sex bosses for late night dinners and after hours drinks. Meetings in public spaces are easily arranged everywhere, and I think this is a good idea. Especially given the rise of false claims and kangaroo courts.
sweetcara14 she talking about working on projects on overtime, going on business trips just you and your boss there are a lot of cases where opportunities can be missed because of this men and women work place dilemma.
I know what she's talking about. All of that can be done while following a certain decorum that requires no closed meetings in private spaces. Airplanes are public, restaurants and other meeting places are public, separate rooms even on separate floors of a hotel can be arranged. This is not rocket science, and there's absolutely no incentive for a man to risk his reputation and future on the very real potential that his female co-worker, boss or subordinate will then hold his very life in her hands, should she be the slightest bit unhappy with him. Nor should SHE have to risk an unwanted advance. That's just a win-win for both parties. Avoid the downside altogether and have some actual standards of behavior.
Really, you have combined two separate issue areas that are both coming under fire. Mentorship aren't about late night dinners and after hours drinks, but they are things that often require a lot of one on one time, a men who fear false claims the risk is simply not worth the reward. Because of increased fears of sexual harassment that can ruin a career without requiring proof, most reasonable man will not be willing to do a mentorship for a women, so women loose out. That is one thing. Then there is also the late night dinners and after hours drinks with groups of co-workers, which is also coming under fire. Again, the businesses can't really stop people from hanging out after work and these late night dinners and after hours drinks with groups is where people network and bond as friends, but if men fear unreasonable sexual harassment policies, women don't get invited, or if they do they are "held a arms length" so that no one "gets the wrong idea". And now women don't get the chance to network and bond as friends with co-workers.
Feminists have expended lots of energy and capital competing for "equal rights", which over the last few decades, turned out to be superior rights and special privileges, and even that's not enough. So, if they want all of these potential opportunities for advancement, and comaraderie, they will now simply have to start doing what men have always done - create their own business empires, commit their youth and middle age years to long hours of hard work and innovation, network with other women with similar ambitions, take all the same risks, make all the same sacrifices, and prove themselves on their own. They simply CANNOT have it both ways. No one can.
Of course we can. Which is why the Pence rule is a reasonable decision. I'd do it too, if I were in his position, and I'd be far from the only one. An adult decision involves risk assessment.
I seriously don't understand some people. They wanted more freedom and when they got it they didn't like its responsibility so now they want less freedom. They just need to accept the responsibility and report to the law when something illegal happens.
The UK needs you as the prime minister. You are one of the most well spoken and logically thinking people I have ever seen. You truly should be a more prominent figure in the worlds society. The world needs people like you more than ever.
I have been following the Pence rule for about the last 20 years (I'm in my 40s). No closed door to office with anyone, especially a woman. And no private meetings or dinners, etc. I love Christina Hoff Summers, but she seems to be missing a key point when she says "Millions of men and women are working together no problem." And that point is this: All it takes is one BS accusation to ruin a man's life and take away everything he has spent his entire life building. No thanks. I prefer the Pence rule.
In Spanish there is a difference between "feminismo" and "hembrismo": the latter is a false belief that females are superior to males, with the corresponding belief that the rights of women should be above those of men. In english I haven't ever heard of a distinction like this that differentiates legitimate feminism, the belief that women's rights should be equal to those of men (this would include equal pay for equal work, etc) from this toxic "womanism".
Condemnation of all men necessarily hurts many women: the men's mothers, the men's daughters, the men's sisters, the men's wives (when they're not the accusers), and, in general, straight women's mental health, for their internal conflict of being attracted to alleged monsters.
I have followed the "Mike Pence Rule" for years and that rule is an old rule followed by many pastors and other men for years. If women need counseling or mentoring, would it be so bad to include another woman manager in the meeting? Open bars have always been a bad idea for so many reasons. Most worker compensation insurers recommend this and besides, open bars are way too expensive.
Sommers does have a point. What started out as an exposure of a scandal that supposedly was hurting women has become an all-out sex panic and male-bashing campaign, a which hunt. It has gotten to the point in which guys are afraid of meeting women without wondering if they need to lawyer up.
I was once friends with a woman at my part-time job at work we had a lot in common heck we would even go out for lunch i’ve always been respectful to her but ever since The harassment policies at work began to be updated thanks to Harvey turd Weinstein she politely asked me to end our friendship I was deeply heartbroken.
I know what you're talking about here. I've been a supervisor for a few women and I've never had a discussion with any of them behind closed doors. The fear is always there, they could destroy my life with just an accusation. It's hard because I can tell they don't get the benefit of my experience as much as my guys do which makes me worry about favoritism which makes our interactions even more awkward. It's a death spiral of negativity.
You speak so much calming sense, it makes my head hurt. - like blowing your nose and clearing the social nonsense which has been clogged there for so long.
There are men who get harassed at work, yet all the media attention is on men being the predators and women being the victims. What do you say to a man who was harassed by a woman at work? And what about when a man is being harassed by another man or a woman being harassed by another woman at their workplace?
It would be nice to think the rules would be equally applied. Accusation and ruin for any male so accused and no action in the case of any woman so charged. Guilt to be determined later. The exposure is all one way whatever the actual case. The Factual Feminist argues for reason and peace and for men to go and take your exposure like a man. Yes mere accusation ruins a male but it shouldn't be like that. I agree. It shouldn't be. This is a case where Ms. Sommers can talk until she is blue in the face. What is the exposure? What is the consequence of accusation? Exposure. Guilt by accusation. Ruin. What Ms. Sommers is saying is, "Calm down children, its just a minefield. Walk slowly forward. It is unlikely to be you who will be blown up. Unless of course you are a bad boy. But that's what you get." What is your exposure Ms. Sommers? What do you suppose will be this season's fashion among the womenfolk? Again, what is your exposure? It would be genuinely infantile not to notice. Wouldn't it?
There are plenty of feminist I refuse to listen to on social media simply because they tend towards the radical side. I find your channel to be a breath of fresh air. Subscribed and will continue to watch/listen. Thank you for your positive advocacy of both genders with actual facts and sensible arguments.
By their standards anybody would think that females don't engage in unwanted flirtation or don't commit crimes or any indiscretions, christ's sake I have flirted with females and they have done it with me but but all mature enough and common sense enough to make a joke out of it and laugh it off and move on!
We could prevent sexual harassment by setting up cameras in every room everywhere and ensure a protective watcher, like a big sister or big brother or something, watch us the entire time. To prevent sexual harassment sometimes 2+2 has to equal 5.
This is the result of exageration of women, by confusing flirting with harrasment, men losing their jobs and careers for old ways to flirt is not fear. I wish all that women speaking easily for an event of a hug or a sligth touch loose the support of men in their career...extremism in femenism is so dangerous. I'm moderate, and not agreed with the current events
This was an awesome video and you've always been a reasonable voice of Women's Rights you've never bashed all men like many Feminists do these days which as a man has made you my favourite feminist. Thank you Christina Hoff Summers for being the voice of reason in a movement all too often Hysterical.
I work with a female creep. I would never be alone with her. She makes trouble and accusations to hide her incompetence. When her child gets a cold she thinks it's her right to demand that the rest of us work a bit harder while she takes the day off. She hugged me once. It was unwelcome and revolting. If that had been the other way round I'd now be collecting aluminium cans in a supermarket trolley.
I don't buy any of this reasonableness. As long ago as 1987, when I was teaching at a large state university, I knew enough to never be alone in a room with any woman. All meetings with female students and colleagues took place either in a crowded office, on the lawn outside, or in the library in a room with clear plexiglas walls and door. Any man who ever allows himself to be in a room alone with any woman is a fool. You want to bring reason back to the conversation? Then men need to do to women now what Lysistrata and others did to warring men so long ago in Aristophanes' brilliant play.
I see a lot of people in the comments taking Christina Hoff Sommers' words and running in the opposite direction with them. Her cautioning extremist feminists before they encourage a panic is not the same thing as declaring war on working women. Like she pointed out, almost all of these cases involve unusual circumstances with wealthy, powerful men interacting with professional inferiors without any supervision. The people taking this too far are a minority among leftists, the loud few. The vast majority of women aren't looking to ruin men, or attack their sexuality, they just want their paycheck. We can and are working together successfully.
Well, I'm a woman attending college, working part-time and earning the same wages as my male coworkers. Yeah, I've benefitted from feminism. Because first and second wave feminists paved the road for gender equality and I would consider you to be a worthless pile of shit if you think benefitting from movements that made me a real person in the eyes of society is something to be ashamed of. The rest of your cringey 'this is war' fuckboi comment is idiotic and I'm not addressing it. Get off your computer and get outside for the love of god, there isn't any war going on.
So...what? You're just going to punish all women because hardcore feminists are mean? I understand taking professional precautions, but you're acting like every woman in your life is a trained assassin aiming for your ass. Also, don't worry, it's really easy to tell your age from your paranoid overly aggressive worldview. BTW, if you want to play the logical debate card, you probably shouldn't call random women on the internet 'neutral noncombatants' for not considering two niche keyboard warrior groups legitimate causes to rally behind. When you complain about women to other old male employers they complain back? Wow, really sounds like you're cooking up a revolution back there. Definitely not just natural griping that both sexes do to blow off steam.
+Ophelia Brock ...you should probably just ignore that troll. I guarantee every guy I've seen act like this... as soon as you hear them on stream or in discord or something, they have a high voice and very low T. It's all Compensation. ...that said... "Just want their paycheck" is quickly turning into _Just want Catharsis_ for every time they've felt slighted or _set upon_ by a man who might have been an actual `6` to their `6` but because they're women they're only flattered by it when the man's an `8` or a `9`. You cannot reasonably deny how women maintain a distinct Power Dynamic advantage as the unquestionable Gatekeepers of these interactions. As such, yes, they can and are progressively appearing more and more _entitled_ due to it. Continually raising the stakes for men ONLY, won't end well and I think that's the message the flustered young millennial guys of today seem to want to convey but just aren't adequately socialized to render with any degree of confidence
I agree that liberal millennials take way too much pleasure in crapping on guys and I sympathize with men who have to deal with defensive feminazis in and out of the dating scene. But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic as a fellow liberal millennial or maybe I just can't understand men's perspective, but I truly don't think it's an organized epidemic so much as loud SJWs stinking up twitter. I just don't think most women care about these politics enough to commit to being 'gatekeepers' and the popular 'who needs men?' empowerment anthem is going to get old really fast. I really do hope guys find women who don't feel the need to exercise their independence by punishing men, but I don't think doing the exact same thing back is the right answer. No gender is collectively evil or manipulative, and the only way to ease tensions is to encourage as much unbiased interaction as possible in my opinion.
Alex Davila I wouldn't call our issues with rape accusation a blatant power disparity. The law is equal and fair with burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty, you're talking about social media outrage and the real life consequences of that. I do think there's a problem with our social response to baseless rape accusations, but again- not a power problem so much as a general fear of letting a rapist escape. The media response certainly isn't fueled solely by women, this is the kind of problem that could be helped through harsher sentencing of rapists so the paranoia isn't so severe and if the media would take some responsibility and stop fear mongering. Again, I really sympathize. But this isn't he said, she said, and I think that kind of attitude is just playing right into these problems. Also, having to record solitary interactions with customers and employees, while more important for men, is just the smart thing to do and plenty of companies do this even without the motivations you're assuming. I'm just saying, it's not the tragedy you're painting it out to be. It's just what you do to avoid being sued in the US.
The one and only Based Mom. Been waiting for your take for some time. I saw Dave Rubin tweet that Vox has cancelled their Christmas party. What a shame. We should uphold due process without a doubt on all these allegations. However, I think we should also encourage women and men to draw lines, and have boundaries when they are in situations where people naturally let their hair down. Violate those boundaries, and you get in trouble.
Wolfgang - What boundaries specifically? Who sets and enforces these boundaries? Who educates whom about what those boundaries are and why? I think these are the fundamental questions that are insufficiently answered in your comment. You seem serious about this. I am very curious: How do YOU answer these questions? How do you think they should be answered for others? Wha do you think the feminists leading this charge want to accomplish/change?
>Who educates them? --Well, I'd say friends and family. >Who sets the boundaries? -- Since they are personal, I'd say they vary from individual to individual. >If I do sound serious, it's only because I'm worried about false allegations. I do recall a story about a year or so ago about a young man who was falsely accused of rape who committed suicide. Subsequently, about a year later, the mother of this man committed suicide as well. It was a really tragic affair. That is my main concern. >I really push the concept of boundaries, because I believe for one, that we can't enjoy the freedom we have in this country without some level of self-control and moderation. And I'm a big liberty guy. We live in a time when people think it's okay to just let oneself loose, and not give a care about the potential consequences or the dangers that can result from this.
The way you speak it seems that there is a rape culture in the workforce with newly enlightened men more than willing to dob in a pervert. What no one is willing to admit is there are women who do use their sexuality, the casting couch, if you will, to get to the top. What about them?
You talk about "a step backwards". But when you are on the wrong path, a step backwards is a good idea. Simple Chastity and Modesty, what you described as "Puritanism", didn't arise out of nowhere. It developed as a method of safeguarding both men and women. Feminism removed those safeguards, simultaneously ignoring the perpetrators who supported Feminism. A few steps back would do us all a world of good.
I agree. Men courting women is a biological imperative. It's inevitable that, when you mix men and women in the workplace, courting will occur there too. As long as Feminists label flirting while male a Sin, it makes more sense to limit interaction between men and women at work than to ask men to fight biology.
It is a mix of things here. On the one hand, people are told "it's only sex. Have all you can, of whatever varieties you want". On the other hand, we tell women "anything you don't like is sexual harassment. If they stink up the bathroom, it is sexual harassment". Then we get people defending Clinton and that ilk... "it's just sex. Don't be so repressed". Roman Polanski STILL gets defended. And depending on what feminist you talk to, prostitution is either a woman's right, or a tool of the patriarchy.
Oh yeah... Women had it so much better back then when they couldn't inherit property, or work outside the home, or get away from abusive relationships. Jesus Christ.
We all agree that sexual harassment must be fighted. But i would like to pinpoint a kind of behavior that many people seem to forget: girls harassing boys. Of course it is not the same kind of harassment. But i would give my personnal example: I am not a powerful man. I just entered in the working life, but i would say that i already had to deal with a kind of sexual harassment. It was during my PhD in biology. A girl wanted to be hired in my team. The kind of girls who knows she is handsome. She was clearly flirting with me. Kiss me at the very close edge of my lips and say "ho... I'm sorry i didn't mean to do that", touching my pectorals and say "i see that you take care of yourself", fainting to have many common hobbies etc etc... It is not the kind of harassment that people think about because i was 100% consenting. But i didn't know she had a boyfriend (she "forgot" to tell me i guess). We never had sex but when she understood that i could'nt help her to be hire in my team, she just ghosted me. I never saw her again. As i said, we never had sex, but then i realized that, if we did, i would have been considered as a kind of monster abusing of a poor girl. She could have sued me, she could have said to my boss that i forced her etc etc... Although she was the one flirting with me. This is the kind of stories feminists "forget" to talk about when it comes to the sexual harassment at work stuff
This double standards and under the table behaviour is widespread. It must be held to account. We know what's going and it's underhanded to try to curry favour by breaking the rules and infringing on clear boundaries.
I'm not sure it's a sex panic. For as long as I can remember the rules were (1) NEVER be alone with a female in your office with the door closed. (2) if you had to go to her office, stand in the doorway if at all possible; if not, then stay in plain sight of the doorway. I don't ever remember working late, alone, with a female, only other males or in groups. (3) DON'T TOUCH. (4) don't compliment her person only her work related actions (5) no jokes, not even squeaky clean ones and (6) treat her like another guy except watch the language, no war stories and only engage in work related discussions. As for having dinner with a woman not your wife, I never thought about it before Pence brought it up, but I realized that I've never had dinner, alone, with a woman not my wife. The one time I was on an overnight business trip, alone, with a woman of comparable age, I didn't even go to dinner. I ate in my room.
What Mike Pence expressed is true. It has always been an unwritten rule in the military not to be alone with ANY women while in uniform or on base. It serves very well to protect oneself, and I've always stuck to this way of thinking.
Men and women afraid of each other has many more negatives than positives.
Agree
I have seen many comments from women, across social media, all sharing their experiences with sexual harassment and "sexual harassment."
Some have complained about men asking them out to dinner, or complimenting them and all this basic shit. I noticed many seemed very annoyed and tired of this behaviour, but they hadn't reported it or even told the man directly that his attention was unwanted. Some went to dinner with them and had assumed it was work related.
Jesus Christ, I have had male customers make uncomfortable comments towards me in work, and have had strangers on the street pass comment. It is DEEPLY uncomfortable, but a single comment made on a single occasion is not harassment. They have to be persistent in order for it to be harassment.
If a male coworker asks you to dinner or makes a flirtatious comment towards you, you have to be direct and say, "No thank you." Or "Please do not continue to make those kinds of comments, they are not appreciated or wanted."
Guys need more than a hint. Some of them are really that bad at reading subtly.
If someone physically touched you in a way which was clearly innapropriate, then yes, different case altogether, but a man saying you look good at a Christmas party is hardly a crime.
DarthYuYevon They're not only from men
I’m a woman and I agree 100%
Even the inappropriate touch can be them trying to signal interest in you or merely being friendly, and not sexually harassing you. Context matters in all these situations but feminists and other women due to the panic are quick to label anything that makes them feel like harassment, as harassment.
An example would be a hand placed on the shoulder. It isn't sexual and I've had men and women do this to me and every time it makes me uncomfortable as I am not big on touching.
Dont worry about the attention. You will be old invisible and yearn for the attention you once had soon enough
"a single comment made on a single occasion is not harassment. They have to be persistent in order for it to be harassment."
If a woman keeps leading a man on, you can't blame the man if he keeps trying.
People seem to think that this feminist sexual assault/harassment hysteria started just recently. I can remember back in the late 70's/early 80's when I first started working for a particular employer who had a zero tolerance policy on sexual harassment in the work place. Even asking a woman co-worker out for a date was considered sexual harassment, and just a formal complaint could get a man summarily terminated with no two weeks notice, no severance pay, just security escorting him off of company grounds and never being allowed back again for any reason. I can remember being excoriated by feminists at work for telling a woman co-worker that I thought she looked quite beautiful in a particular outfit that she had worn that day, or for calling a woman a 'girl' once, or for looking down at a woman's open and highly visible cleavage, and I feared for my job over it. But I thought that it was highly hypocritical that women could ask male co-workers out for dates, tell male co-workers that they were handsome, call male co-workers boys, and make comments about admiring male co-workers' butts without any fear of any repercussions at all. And all this time feminists kept claiming that all they wanted was equality!
Exactly. The Duluth Model, the first known instance of institutional criminalization of masculinity, stems from 1981. Feminists have been pushing to translate the demonization of men into policy and law since at least the early 1980's.
bla blahblah Nailed it, except they want it given instead of earned.
“But I thought that it was highly hypocritical that women could ask male co-workers out for dates, tell male co-workers that they were handsome, call male co-workers boys, and make comments about admiring male co-workers' butts without any fear of any repercussions at all.”
- If they could, that must have been because men at your employer tolerated that inequality.
Your assumption that all of the managers at my employer were men is false. Actually a lot of the managers were women. And when it came to a dispute between women and men co-workers, women were given preference over men because feminists would raise all holy he** if they weren't, claiming that the company was being misogynist. With all of the public complaints from feminists of sexism and misogyny in the work place and society in general, nobody really cared to stand up for us men, least of all women managers. I could tell you of a lot of other examples of the double standard that prevailed because feminists publicly raised so much he** about misogyny. Another example that really ticked me off was when some women in the office sent out e-mails to everyone in the office with long lists of jokes that had men as the fools in them. I took one of those e-mails one time and rewrote the jokes, reversing the gender roles in them, and sent the e-mail back out to all of the original recipients. I was reprimanded for sending out an e-mail with jokes denigrating women. When I pointed out that the jokes were originally sent to me with the gender roles reversed, I was informed that it was OK to send out e-mails like that with men as the fools in them, but not OK to send out e-mails like that with women as the fools in them. Once again, the managers deciding this were----women. And going to HR about it didn't do me any good either. Guess what gender generally staffed the HR dept.--Women.
What C Laird says here is very, very true. Men being fired on nothing but an allegation and being denied due process has been happening for decades and the media won't talk about it.
Women need to learn to work with men as they are or go home. Our workplace rules have criminalized normal male behavior and this sex scare is likely to do even more harm. It was a mistake to ever involve companies in the enforcement of crimes. If a man commits a crime at work, it should be reported to law enforcement, not the HR department.
Perhaps your right about crime being reported to law enforcement and not HR. (If we're talking sexual harrassment) The only reason why I see HR taking it seriously is because they are afraid of getting sued - claiming that an environment is unsafe to work in. Then comes the definition of what is normal male behavior? Every culture is different and when a male crosses from one to another what may be normal in his culture may not be normal in the next place. Similiarly, that goes for females. --- If we are talking about no cultural difference, then the male will act normal in front of everyone else and then harass you when no one is around. When you report it you look like the crazy one because no one can see or has seen what you are talking about.
This is where you are wrong. If men or women commits a crime at WORK, you need to report it to HR department after that yes law enforcement. For example when at school or college you need to go through teacher first before you can go to clinics or hospital. I think you need to check back what is the function of HR department. if what I'm saying is wrong maybe my lecturer just teach a lie to me then.
@@hamkaida You don't need to do any of this. Laws were passed that made employers responsible for these things. That was a mistake and these laws should be repealed. Schools and businesses have no law enforcement expertise and should not be involved in law enforcement.
It is NOT a "welcome development" that women are being elevated to supremacy in the workplace.
Where is the massive obsession with women who sexually harass men in the workplace? When we see equal concern for the sexual harassment and sexual assault that women commit, in the workplace and elsewhere, then, and only then, will we have a "welcome development."
Baawwwwww muh whataboutism bitching.
she lost me when she said "we need rules to rid us of creeps" a man's creepiness level is entirely subjective and inverse to his perceived attractiveness level by the woman.
C Hipp yeah. She should know better than to use a word like that. It clearly only applies to men, and not women. The word creep is a tool of male bashing.
Yeah but just because men initiate everything. I think what she meant was quite clear. Guys like Kevin Spacey pushing himself onto someone. Nothing wrong with that. It's not about men approaching women but generally unwanted approach. That society expects that from men (making the first move) is nobody's fault. She just stated the status quo.
I agree. If a man is "creepy", it usually means he is socially awkward or poor. If a woman is socially awkward (or even as crazy as Glenn Close in "Fatal Attraction") most (heterosexual) men don't give a shit (perhaps they should). Men definitely don't judge women as "creepy" because they're poor or socially awkward. Unless a man is acting like Norman Bates or Hannibal Lector or engaging in real harassment, "creepiness" is just another female way of shaming and putting down men.
Put this lady in charge of America it will make you great.
Too emotional
now its a crime to flirt or try to date a woman..
.
.... Yes it genuinely is. You just have to ignore it I suppose. Human sexuality is a very powerful urge and, and you can;t let the totalitarian state try to interfere. This is going to damage a lot of people. This is all very elitist shit.
Academics at University of Auckland are claiming that sandwich jokes are violent and that asking a woman if she is a virgin should be met with jail time.
There is an rapidly growing number of men who are opting for sex robots. You can't make this up. Our society is so broken that men are opting for a sex-robots over an actual woman. And with the current technology they are looking scare real. I don't blame them since your life can so easily be destroyed by a woman's whim these days I just don't think the majority of women have a clue of how badly it has become. Here's a video about women being replaced by robots. ua-cam.com/video/dTFzBFTlMm0/v-deo.html
"A crime," as in criminal statutes? Silly nonsense. Show me one.
No it’s not, it’s your 1st Amendment right to try to talk to anyone to have sex with you. Free country
@@srbaruchi Any woman can accuse you of rape with no evidence and you can be charged. All she has to do is prove you had sex.
I’m a male, and I love the way she explains these problems that we face as a society. She explains these things calmly, and she isn’t biased to one side.
Actually you kind of made Mike Pence’s point for him. All the examples you posted had multiple people together in them which lowers the opportunity. I remember in the old office movies a lot of the offices had half glass windows and or doors. Maybe this was the reason to stop office rumors from being created. I know my own deceased father said he would never allow one to one conferences. Always 3 people or more for that reason. It protected everyone’s reputation.
The public needs to be seriously be made aware of the fact that allegations are not synonymous with truth. Guys record every encounter with women and have them sign a consent form before hand to being recorded it’s the only way to keep you safe otherwise for the most part just stay away from women as much as possible especially at work
It’s a good idea... although she can just say she changed her mind after signing and “the man” didn’t respect that. There’s no way around it. Men are screwed from all angles.
This . Womwn are horrifying
I see so many defensive men in the comments saying the rise in allegations makes them worry that they too might be caught up in a scandal. That’s basically saying every allegation is false and so we need to worry about the scheming woman who might tarnish your career.
bla blahblah Shame this is all entirely irrelevant in the UK (where I am). We are allowed to record conversations but only for our own purposes - if the recordings are shared it becomes a crime. They can be used to prevent or as evidence of a crime but it’s unclear as of yet (not been tested in law) whether it could be used as defence in a criminal case. The defendant risks getting additional charged added on for sharing a recording of a private conversation.
faultroy A great point! Both Hoff-Sommers and Paglia have been saying this is a while now: “(post-) modern feminism is infantilising women. It’s diametrically opposed to what women fought for in the 60s and 70s. 2nd wave Feminism (which I’m also not a fan of, as an aside) at least fought for women to be treated like adults and equals (in one way but not every) sexually. These days feminists want men to bear all the responsibility for every sexual encounter making us believe that woman don’t have the ability to consent or not but wanting the right to be able to consent or not retrospectively based on how the woman feels the next day/week/year/decade.
Puritanism really doesn't seem so silly in the context. If women are going to wildly make sexual allegations if someone merely flirts with them, which can destroy a man, or a company even, it would make sense to never be alone with a woman co-worker, to make everything public, ever record everything to mitigate what actually presents as a financial liability. In fact, it would make sense under those circumstances not to even hire women, given women make such complaints, and men do not. Used to be puritanism protected society from such things - women had chaperones, no sex before marriage, marry if you get someone pregnant etc. The "harshness" of traditionalism protected men from false allegations, and women from impropriety whilst defending the lives of children. In this "listen and believe" culture, interacting with women at all, in a professional context, is a liability vaguely akin to dabbling in herbal potions during the salem witch trials..
As a male employee, I would never deign to have a meeting with any employee without benefit of both a witness and recording of the proceedings, and these decades-old allegations mentioned in the video are the reason why. It's a simple matter to fabricate a complaint against a supe whenever there's an ax to grind, even if it's for the express purpose of extortion. A sane society would recognize this and respond appropriately, but that leaves us out, doesn't it? What is blithely labeled 'male averse feminism' here is actually the nascent stages of targeting all males for reprisal...
Christina, while I agree with most of what you've said here, I have a few squabbles.
1. labeling men "monsters" and "creeps" is never a path toward solving the problem. Those labels allow people to dismiss (male) perpetrators as evil without having to understand the root causes of the behavior, and you can't solve any problem you can't understand. Creep is also a very gender-specific term. It only applies to men, never women, and in many workplaces a woman only has to put the vague label of "creepy" on a man to put him at risk, whether he deserves it or not. Please don't contribute to the weaponization of that word.
2. Why is it that we are only concerned with sexual harassment? It's merely one type of abuse of power and not necessarily the worst. Well, clearly we give it extra weight because it's the type of harassment that women are most concerned about and that they can use to diminish men and make a claim that there should be more women in charge. Very convenient. There are people who go to work every day only to be belittled and screamed at, both by men and women bosses, and who suffer greatly for it. I was harassed by a woman boss to the point that I needed therapy and medication, but it doesn't count because there was no sexual component to it? I would much rather she had flirted with me than belittle me and constantly threaten my job. Any form of harassment by a superior should be taken just as seriously as sexual harassment and dealt with in the same way, but that stance doesn't pander to and satisfy feminists, so there's no discussion of it.
You claim sexual harassment laws were designed to protect workers from bullying, coercion, and extortion. No, they were designed to protect women from a very specific type of behavior. If you're being harassed by a terrible boss, and there's nothing sexual about it, good luck taking that to HR. You're the one likely to be fired.
3. While you don't like the idea that men are being cautious about being with women at work, and that women could pay a price for it, it is with good reason that men are fearful. You say you worry about witch hunts, but don't seem to think that men should be fearful of it because most people seem to be working in harmony. In this climate, every man fears that it only takes an accusation and his job and career are over immediately. Women have no interest in taking men's fears seriously because they really don't care about men. They only care about themselves. And they believe that women's fears are "real" while men's aren't.
I hope you get a chance to read this and respond.
But how do you prove that a woman is LYING about being sexually harassed?
joey zapata how do you prove she’s telling the truth? That’s the burden false allegations have caused.
Innocent until proven guilty
Unfortunately, that's not how it goes in the public eye. It's interesting to see how many lives can be ruined on allegations and if it's found to be false no one cares that the person's life is already ruined and rarely does anyone ever read the updates of it being a false allegation
Yep. The Brian Singer case comes to mind.
joey zapata women don't lie silly
Most of these men have never even been charged. Whole lives, careers and projects have been reduced to ruins on nothing but allegations. Due process is dead. And women call it a victory. As a man who has been sexually harassed by women more than once; and will not receive due process and I'm effectively NOT equal before the law: I'M DONE WITH WOMEN.
I don't want to be alone in the same room with them ever. I don't date at all anymore. I don't attend office parties. And increasingly I don't respect what women do or have to say. I wasn't always like this, but this is how it is now. Women and feminists have irreparable damaged gender relations. And fixing it is not my fucking job.
I feel sorry for my own gender, i hate all those actresses playing the victims in this game where we all know they benefited for...
Normally I agree with Professor Hoff Sommers but one of her remarks struck me as somewhat naive. She regarded rules such as the one suggested by Timothy Noah as "silly and infantilizing" (1:39) In a sane world, she would be right, but we don't live in a sane world, do we!? We live in a world where men have to take extreme precautions bordering on paranoia in order to protect themselves from the possibility of false sexual assault accusations. I think the phrase she should have used is "regrettably necessary".
What a fantastic break down of this subject. Really appreciate your perspective Christina. Thanks Based Mom.
As usual! Sommers is such an amazing person with incredible insights.
Well the fact is MEN still are owners of most business. It is looking more and more just too much risk to have Women in the workplace...
1:00 "everyone loses, especially women." Based mom or not, this gynocentric comment clearly shows that she's still a feminist. We, as a society, have an issue with feeling empathy for men, accepting that they can be the primary victims of crimes and sins and harmful ideologies and unfortunately Ms Sommers is no exception.
I think you're reading far too much into that comment. Christina does have a reasonable explanation for that statement.
We've all heard the joke "Asteroid collides with earth and kills humanity, women most affected" however Christina is right if you put what she said into context. After-hours collaboration between men would likely go unnoticed/unrestricted after policy changes and so men would benefit but women would indeed be worse off due to the policy changes... Which is what she was saying. Furthermore she clarifies that these sorts of policies and gender panic are aimed at infantilizing women - so that also means that women would be more affected because they're the ones being infantilized.
You make people who express actual concerns of gynocentrism look bad with braindead comments like yours and trying to paint Christina as some sort of marxist-Feminist just makes you look like a conspiracy nut.
I just simply don't flirt with or ask women out at work. Don't gawk at their bodies. Keep your hands to yourself. Eye contact only. I don't date women at work. I rather enjoy the hurt look in their eyes when I recoil from their touch.
As a result in working in 90% female environments, my female co workers gossiped that I was gay. This was to protect their fragile egos of course. Oh well, being fake gay gave me a protected status that I could turn against them and use to my advantage. And, I sometimes did.
I wish more guys would do this. Protect your careers and your reputations. You want sex? Go to swing clubs where getting it requires little or no effort.
The only thing I would add is that I never, ever make any comment whatsoever about the physical appearance or attire of female colleagues. If “she” was to turn up at the office in a g-string or a chicken costume, she will get a friendly, “good morning! Howe are you?” From me, nothing more.
While I understand what you're trying to say, the reality is that all it takes is one allegation (false or otherwise) to ruin a man's career and life. And I don't blame men for not wanting to take that risk. As for that statement that everyone is making about gender segregated workforce harming women, that's the price women are going to pay for letting feminists make the rules and regulations.
exactly
But isn't it also bad to assume every woman is a false accuser? Just like assuming every man is a rapist.
If the modern woman wouldn't act like an infant, we wouldn't have to treat them accordingly. We stopped having shop parties, and I keep audio of every phone call and conversation with female employees. To be honest, the risks of having women in the workplace are rapidly outweighing the reward.
You are falsely implying that there is an automatic reward of having woman in the workplace, which is untrue.
The reward? Please elaborate. (serious question)
Are you asking me or the original commentator?
Nico....It's a common phrase...risk and reward. I interpret it in this context as negative and positive.
By your logic, the risks of having men in the workplace are rapidly outweighing the reward because of sexual harassers.
"We don't need a sex panic" says the person who has no chance of losing everything because of allegations of impropriety. I think it's a damn smart idea for men to protect themselves and their female co workers. I'm not sure why this is even a question. Women's safety and men's reputations are more important. It's a small price to pay to clean up this mess that has gotten so far out of hand.
Evne as someone with a deep social anxeity, I know that one of the most important factors to improve a career is networking.
That is not something I blame everyone else for, even though I often wish every single person in this world would disappear... or at least die painfully in a fire, on a good day. :-p I accept that it means I'm probably not going to be a millionair at any point in this lifetime, and instead I found a job that I like doing and that got a decent enough pay. (And to be honest, I feel like a majority of people, at least where I live prefere a job they like with a decent pay, over working a job that becomes stressful in hope of getting a larger paycheck later.)
But what happens when men starts to be afraid of socializing with women, especially those men who have a say when it comes to promotions, who have to be extra careful not to say or look in a way that some female might use to ruin his career?
When socializing with women become a high enough risk for men, they will stop socializing with anyone that carry that risk, and as such when looking at who would be a good choise for a promotion or a new job opening, the people they know well enough to believe they have skills the job takes, will be men.
Every day it seems more and more like the new wave of feminism is more about female supremacy, validated because men used to rule throughout history, so now women need to have a couple of million years where they oppress men to balance it out. But just like white supremacists never managed to conquere the world, neither did black supremacy or male supremacy for that matter... and neither will female supremacy.
If women truely was so much wiser than men, one would think that they at least knew how to learn from history... but somehow they clearly aren't, and it strangely looks like we are all just mere humans :-)
Dude, there are dozens of criminal laws that apply only to men. The FBI doesn't even consider a woman enveloping a man's genitals rape, and in UK law only men can be rapists. We've been living in a female supremacy world for decades, you just never realized it.
I love this woman! When my buddy and we’re bar hopping last week one woman grabbed my ass and giggles with her friends as she ran away. At the last bar of the night a woman licked my friend on the face. No “hello”, just drunkenly walked off. Should I have called the cops? No. Women need to grow a pair.
delete yourself
Having been in the workplace now for 25 years, ironically I have actually become sexist. Working with women is so fraught with danger that it must if at all possible be avoided. This is particularly manifest in those important team building exercises often in a social setting. I will of course engage with a woman in the workplace professionally and courteously but the risks of even that are so manifest that when it comes to "going down the pub after work", then if there are any woman there I will either not go or cry off after one drink and go home. Feminism encourages women to break their "social contract" which men by being in essence juvenile. Again , ironically, if a woman indicates that she prefers to deal with any issues / misunderstandings or even unwanted advances at the time / in the flesh and like a grown up, rather than running to HR / Twitter then she can come to the pub. Even more ironically, she is more likely to be promoted because it is in the pub where wider issues are discussed, hidden talents and capabilities come to light that I might otherwise be unaware of. Is this sexist? Probably. Is this Gynophobia? Probably not, that would indicate an irrational fear of women, and for example - Christina Hoff Summers can come to the pub, no issues at all :)
Sorry bro CHS is a SHILL
This vis misses two important points in my view
1/ Mens rea + actus reus: There has to be not only a criminal act but criminal intent. If a woman comes to work in a low cut blouse both men (and women) will not be able to not notice it. So a man being caught 'glancing' at the exposed flesh is not guilty of anything. If he's intentionally staring at her breasts then that's another thing - but I would still question if the woman is completely innocent in this case
2/ For minor cases we don't need to run directly to authorities who are now bound by social justice to pursue every case no matter how trivial. Case in hand: Michael Fallon / Julia Hartley-Brewer. She dealt with the case, end of.
As a business owner .. I haven't hired a woman for two years .. I only hire males . I have 2 left .. I find I'm quiet around them because of political correctness .. I can't be me .. Once they move on it will be men only .. Hedi is close to retirement .. Julie is going overseas travel for a year .. I have told her I will not guarantee her place she is devastated ...Good workers but the feminist movement is strong against white males .. I am cutting the risks .
marco amato now the feminists will attack you for your choices of workers. Either you have women and have a high chance of stupid sexual assault claims or have all, hard working men but have feminists barking down your throat about male privilege and shit
Brother I have great workers but I need to protect my business from legal action ..I can't control or be everywhere .. This is the easiest way ..
marco amato i agree
If they come at you, bud, you can always reply with, "Well, this is what happens when you let radical feminists cut your nose off to spite your face.".
Having worked in education for nearly a quarter of a century I can say that the rules you're describing what I have lived with an under virtually my entire career. I am never alone with anyone the door closed all offices will have Windows they don't have window the door will remain open. For those of you who have not lived in this world welcome to it if you are male you are the target for anyone who wishes to destroy your career with two words.
I've been threatened with "Are you looking at my tits?"
Another reason education is a gynocracy.
If asking her out is harassment, maybe even turning her down might be sexual harassment.
there is no other form of assault or harassment that would be taken seriously years after the fact. im sorry but its obvious that these woman made the choice to use their sexuality to get ahead instead of doing the right thing and pressing charges when it happened. this seems like just another feminist culture "have you cake and eat it too" situation.
not even defending 1, 2, 10 men who broke laws...they should have been charged and arrested. these women hurt more women by not doing anything, they were selfish. had no problem draping themselves over these men in countless photos and keeping quiet if it benefited them.
if we wanna address the elephant in the room we can talk about how female sexuality is "currency" and has always been on a biological level. this is vastly abused in modern times and everybody knows that and 99% of it is positive.
the amount of things men do for women vs what they would do for any other man is unbalanced to say the least and for the most part men always felt a sense of pride that we were able to "woo" the girl of our dreams. its always been a transaction and it was a benefit to both men and women...but now men are demonized for it so fuck, cant win.
then we just throw in the towel
As long as the deciding authority on whether I'm a predator or not, is how the female feels, I'm staying away. La donna e mobile...
I really wish we could get all feminists to believe in Christina Hoff Sommers unicorn feminism. Life would be so much better for everyone, including said feminists.
The "Pence Rule" is simply smart. There are ways for both men and women to collaborate with each other without violating this.
Segregation of the sexes is the way forward in the workplace. Men must not be able to see a woman at work.
I've had it in the opposite direction. Some woman can be cruel as hell when rejected.
I'm tempted to say that we should just ride this wave out. The smart people in the work force will get the picture and realise the policies are just unworkable in the modern world. I'm one of the few that just refuse to deal with females without a witness of some variety to prevent the damage of a sexual harassment statement but its a growing movement.
My company had a compulsory Sexual Harassment Seminar every year in which they could not tell us what sexual harassment is. Any woman could get any man fired at any time. And no, to any smartass reading my words, this did not happen to me. But I witnessed it. If a woman says "He makes me uncomfortable," how do you defend yourself against that?
Indeed: we need less subjectivity here and more facts. Otherwise, it's open to abuse.
We (men) have always been warned *not* to be alone after hours with women. At the end of the day it's your words against hers.
Who are they going to believe.
The problem is victims not speaking up when they are assaulted. This allows the predators to have many more victims for years.
I always appreciate your perspective and insights but with respect I disagree. Until we can publicly join with Tom Golden to say, "men are good," without being accused of misogyny, the only rational course for men is to go on strike against the system, John Galt style, and join the ranks of MGTOW.
A bureaucrat I know said he liked his job until it became predominately women. Now he spends an inordinate amount of time intervening in cat fights. His wife agreed.
Another old guy in the trades would not work on projects if woman were involved because they caused more trouble than they were worth.
www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1168182/Catfights-handbags-tears-toilets-When-producer-launched-women-TV-company-thought-shed-kissed-goodbye-conflict-.html
New Rule: Never tell a woman that they are pretty especially if they are pretty.
This is why M.G.T.O.W wins end the game by not playing it. Like my hero Lord Humongous once said "Just walk away" as men there is nothing left for us here just walk away. Let this world rot and burn give it give it only your back to look at.
Hard pass sister, I would not be caught dead alone with a subordinate. This #metoo deal should scare the life out of men and should make majority of us not deal with women.
This is a reasonable counterpoint to the more hyper liberal stance generally taken on this. Good vid.
The only reasonable feminists that I know. And they say that I marginalize radical ones.
Pence was 100 percent correct. If you value your career stay away from female co workers period. Don't hug them don't even shake their hands just keep it at good morning, good afternoon, and goodnight.
Christina I think it's about time to accept that the word and original meaning of 'feminism' has been lost to extremists. You should consider to join the thousands who describe themselves as equalists instead.
I'm sorry but guys need to protect themselves from false allegations bc he will lose everything on an accusation with zero proof.
I personally avoid any women inside the work place.
I wish this issue wouldn't keep side stepping men who have been victims of sexual misconduct. It's been woefully silent on male victims and I don't believe for a second that there aren't any.
She didn't offer any solutions, The Pence Rule of never being alone with women protects the men involved. Sure you can say it hurts the progress of women in the office but what is a man supposed to do? I've been doing it for 3 years now, one of the best decision I've made in the work place.
As a man who has had a working with children card for much of the last two decades, I refuse to allow other people's kids to play out our house without either their parent or my wife around.
My reputation is too important to waste on a potential false accusation in fifteen years time. I've seen too many male teachers who have had their lives destroyed or threatened by false accusations by female students who simply don't like them.
This is one reason why men don't want to become teachers.
I'm fine with a witch hunt if Hollywood gets burned to the ground in the process.
It'll be like Bacchae: just a nice release.
I had a conversation with a male manager that was very stressed because of a situation in his team where a woman has accused an entire team of developers of harassment. It turned out that this woman had mental issues and none of it was true. Everyone was so scared and stressed. The manager told me that he did realize what it means to hire a woman in the team, implying he won't do it again. I think this is one of the backlashes the women are going to feel more and more. I am a woman and I had my share of unwanted attention in my life but I dealt with them myself by clearly defining boundaries. We need to be strong enough to deal with the issues ourselves, a system to get help when we can't solve it ourselves and a neutral and good investigative body that would fairly assess the problems and offer a solution.
Pence's rule is a great rule. It is common sense protection for men and women and from shenanigans. The only other way to protect yourself from false accusations or unwanted advances would be to video record every interaction, every minute with anybody else, every day.
This is what happens when we as a country stopped teaching character. Now we are scrambling to bring it back.
Mike Pence represents all the men I know. It's wisdom manifested. I wholeheartedly agree. As a woman this is what I do as well. Married people have no protection from allegations made by members of the opposite sex.
Thank you, Christina Hoff-Sommers. It probably goes without saying that I'm a straight, white, male. However, I appreciate your sense and reason. Thanks for speaking out against these scares, and standing up for men on the majority who behave decently to one another.
This is the problem I can't say hey you look pretty or oh nice haircut because I can get charged with sexual harassment this is the stupidest thing I've ever heard
"male averse feminism" is not mainstream? Is that supposed to be a joke?
What about women who propose sex against favors ? Should they be labeled as "creeps" too and punished like masculine creeps ?
Being alone with any subordinate is an absolute risk these days especially a woman
We Are in the United States Rock Star Of The Boston Bruins And We Knew Brad Marchand The New Hockey Captain Forward.
Christina I believe this is the first time I've disagreed with you. I believe Mike Pence's rule was Vindicated. As a man I have never needed a one-on-one dinner or late night work session with one of my superiors to be mentored. I feel like the problem is we too many times think we can have your cake and eat it too. I would rather my career suffer then my wife ever have to wonder or worry about my actions.
If your wife needs to be at every encounter to trust your actions that in itself may be a concern. However that is your decision to make, having it as some enforceable policy treats everyone as teenagers which can't have adult 1:1 conversations without a chaperone everywhere.
Garith21, that's a short-sighted view. I have mentored quite a few employees and colleagues, male and female, and never once did I need to do it outside of the workplace. I am mentoring their work performance and knowledge, not their personal lives. So, if I choose to keep it that way, to insure above-board perception of behavior, so be it. No one loses in that equation.
Some people like going the extra mile in wanting to know how to improve and need extra work. This should be for them to decide as individuals. Just because you feel no one misses out because you are safer doesn't mean no one misses out when such a policy becomes enforceable. If you decide to make that choice that's your decision and there's nothing wrong in that, but there's no getting around the fact that making such a policy enforcable makes everyone out to be teenagers that need a chaperone everywhere.
Not to mention some issues where having multiple managers in the same closed room can feel more intimidating than one but that's a different issue.
What if you're not married? - and neither are they. Is it unprofessional then?
Hey hey, trying to have a friendship outside of work? Impossible, we're all simply robots that exist for work and even though work is where we spend a lot of our awake time we can't possibly be friends with people we work with outside of work and anyone in management position must be hermits to everyone they work with.
"This male averse feminism is not mainstream" I love you Christina, but you're wrong. It's YOUR version of feminism that's not mainstream. Not even in the slightest. Still, keep up the good work and thanks for the vid.
Sorry, but there is no mentorship that requires women or men to be alone with their opposite sex bosses for late night dinners and after hours drinks. Meetings in public spaces are easily arranged everywhere, and I think this is a good idea. Especially given the rise of false claims and kangaroo courts.
sweetcara14 she talking about working on projects on overtime, going on business trips just you and your boss there are a lot of cases where opportunities can be missed because of this men and women work place dilemma.
I know what she's talking about. All of that can be done while following a certain decorum that requires no closed meetings in private spaces. Airplanes are public, restaurants and other meeting places are public, separate rooms even on separate floors of a hotel can be arranged. This is not rocket science, and there's absolutely no incentive for a man to risk his reputation and future on the very real potential that his female co-worker, boss or subordinate will then hold his very life in her hands, should she be the slightest bit unhappy with him. Nor should SHE have to risk an unwanted advance. That's just a win-win for both parties. Avoid the downside altogether and have some actual standards of behavior.
Really, you have combined two separate issue areas that are both coming under fire. Mentorship aren't about late night dinners and after hours drinks, but they are things that often require a lot of one on one time, a men who fear false claims the risk is simply not worth the reward. Because of increased fears of sexual harassment that can ruin a career without requiring proof, most reasonable man will not be willing to do a mentorship for a women, so women loose out. That is one thing. Then there is also the late night dinners and after hours drinks with groups of co-workers, which is also coming under fire. Again, the businesses can't really stop people from hanging out after work and these late night dinners and after hours drinks with groups is where people network and bond as friends, but if men fear unreasonable sexual harassment policies, women don't get invited, or if they do they are "held a arms length" so that no one "gets the wrong idea". And now women don't get the chance to network and bond as friends with co-workers.
Feminists have expended lots of energy and capital competing for "equal rights", which over the last few decades, turned out to be superior rights and special privileges, and even that's not enough. So, if they want all of these potential opportunities for advancement, and comaraderie, they will now simply have to start doing what men have always done - create their own business empires, commit their youth and middle age years to long hours of hard work and innovation, network with other women with similar ambitions, take all the same risks, make all the same sacrifices, and prove themselves on their own. They simply CANNOT have it both ways. No one can.
Of course we can. Which is why the Pence rule is a reasonable decision. I'd do it too, if I were in his position, and I'd be far from the only one. An adult decision involves risk assessment.
I seriously don't understand some people. They wanted more freedom and when they got it they didn't like its responsibility so now they want less freedom. They just need to accept the responsibility and report to the law when something illegal happens.
The UK needs you as the prime minister. You are one of the most well spoken and logically thinking people I have ever seen. You truly should be a more prominent figure in the worlds society. The world needs people like you more than ever.
I have been following the Pence rule for about the last 20 years (I'm in my 40s). No closed door to office with anyone, especially a woman. And no private meetings or dinners, etc. I love Christina Hoff Summers, but she seems to be missing a key point when she says "Millions of men and women are working together no problem." And that point is this: All it takes is one BS accusation to ruin a man's life and take away everything he has spent his entire life building. No thanks. I prefer the Pence rule.
That is the feminism any sensible human being can support. Keep up the awesome job!
In Spanish there is a difference between "feminismo" and "hembrismo": the latter is a false belief that females are superior to males, with the corresponding belief that the rights of women should be above those of men. In english I haven't ever heard of a distinction like this that differentiates legitimate feminism, the belief that women's rights should be equal to those of men (this would include equal pay for equal work, etc) from this toxic "womanism".
Condemnation of all men necessarily hurts many women: the men's mothers, the men's daughters, the men's sisters, the men's wives (when they're not the accusers), and, in general, straight women's mental health, for their internal conflict of being attracted to alleged monsters.
I have followed the "Mike Pence Rule" for years and that rule is an old rule followed by many pastors and other men for years. If women need counseling or mentoring, would it be so bad to include another woman manager in the meeting? Open bars have always been a bad idea for so many reasons. Most worker compensation insurers recommend this and besides, open bars are way too expensive.
It's painful how this channel is under appreciated
Sommers does have a point. What started out as an exposure of a scandal that supposedly was hurting women has become an all-out sex panic and male-bashing campaign, a which hunt. It has gotten to the point in which guys are afraid of meeting women without wondering if they need to lawyer up.
I was once friends with a woman at my part-time job at work we had a lot in common heck we would even go out for lunch i’ve always been respectful to her but ever since The harassment policies at work began to be updated thanks to Harvey turd Weinstein she politely asked me to end our friendship I was deeply heartbroken.
I know what you're talking about here. I've been a supervisor for a few women and I've never had a discussion with any of them behind closed doors. The fear is always there, they could destroy my life with just an accusation. It's hard because I can tell they don't get the benefit of my experience as much as my guys do which makes me worry about favoritism which makes our interactions even more awkward. It's a death spiral of negativity.
You speak so much calming sense, it makes my head hurt. - like blowing your nose and clearing the social nonsense which has been clogged there for so long.
Its not really profitable for women to accuse the Plumber or the Landscaper, the Pool Guy just doesn't have a big enough bank account.
There are men who get harassed at work, yet all the media attention is on men being the predators and women being the victims.
What do you say to a man who was harassed by a woman at work?
And what about when a man is being harassed by another man or a woman being harassed by another woman at their workplace?
It would be nice to think the rules would be equally applied. Accusation and ruin for any male so accused and no action in the case of any woman so charged. Guilt to be determined later. The exposure is all one way whatever the actual case. The Factual Feminist argues for reason and peace and for men to go and take your exposure like a man. Yes mere accusation ruins a male but it shouldn't be like that. I agree. It shouldn't be. This is a case where Ms. Sommers can talk until she is blue in the face. What is the exposure? What is the consequence of accusation? Exposure. Guilt by accusation. Ruin. What Ms. Sommers is saying is, "Calm down children, its just a minefield. Walk slowly forward. It is unlikely to be you who will be blown up. Unless of course you are a bad boy. But that's what you get." What is your exposure Ms. Sommers? What do you suppose will be this season's fashion among the womenfolk? Again, what is your exposure? It would be genuinely infantile not to notice. Wouldn't it?
Based Mom, you rock but you're wrong about the Pence rule.
There are plenty of feminist I refuse to listen to on social media simply because they tend towards the radical side. I find your channel to be a breath of fresh air. Subscribed and will continue to watch/listen. Thank you for your positive advocacy of both genders with actual facts and sensible arguments.
By their standards anybody would think that females don't engage in unwanted flirtation or don't commit crimes or any indiscretions, christ's sake I have flirted with females and they have done it with me but but all mature enough and common sense enough to make a joke out of it and laugh it off and move on!
Of course they do but I would never DREAM of dobbing any woman in for unwanted flirtation no matter how weird or disconcerting
Well done Christine. Your insight is truely invaluable
This will never end as long as women are (rightfully) afraid of men. My heart cries.
THANK YOU FOR BEING YOU Christina Hoff Sommers you are doing good works .
We could prevent sexual harassment by setting up cameras in every room everywhere and ensure a protective watcher, like a big sister or big brother or something, watch us the entire time. To prevent sexual harassment sometimes 2+2 has to equal 5.
This is the result of exageration of women, by confusing flirting with harrasment, men losing their jobs and careers for old ways to flirt is not fear. I wish all that women speaking easily for an event of a hug or a sligth touch loose the support of men in their career...extremism in femenism is so dangerous. I'm moderate, and not agreed with the current events
This was an awesome video and you've always been a reasonable voice of Women's Rights you've never bashed all men like many Feminists do these days which as a man has made you my favourite feminist. Thank you Christina Hoff Summers for being the voice of reason in a movement all too often Hysterical.
I work with a female creep. I would never be alone with her. She makes trouble and accusations to hide her incompetence. When her child gets a cold she thinks it's her right to demand that the rest of us work a bit harder while she takes the day off. She hugged me once. It was unwelcome and revolting. If that had been the other way round I'd now be collecting aluminium cans in a supermarket trolley.
I don't buy any of this reasonableness. As long ago as 1987, when I was teaching at a large state university, I knew enough to never be alone in a room with any woman. All meetings with female students and colleagues took place either in a crowded office, on the lawn outside, or in the library in a room with clear plexiglas walls and door. Any man who ever allows himself to be in a room alone with any woman is a fool. You want to bring reason back to the conversation? Then men need to do to women now what Lysistrata and others did to warring men so long ago in Aristophanes' brilliant play.
We should come together as a society and reject useless divisions. Peace and love!
I see a lot of people in the comments taking Christina Hoff Sommers' words and running in the opposite direction with them. Her cautioning extremist feminists before they encourage a panic is not the same thing as declaring war on working women. Like she pointed out, almost all of these cases involve unusual circumstances with wealthy, powerful men interacting with professional inferiors without any supervision. The people taking this too far are a minority among leftists, the loud few. The vast majority of women aren't looking to ruin men, or attack their sexuality, they just want their paycheck. We can and are working together successfully.
Well, I'm a woman attending college, working part-time and earning the same wages as my male coworkers. Yeah, I've benefitted from feminism. Because first and second wave feminists paved the road for gender equality and I would consider you to be a worthless pile of shit if you think benefitting from movements that made me a real person in the eyes of society is something to be ashamed of.
The rest of your cringey 'this is war' fuckboi comment is idiotic and I'm not addressing it. Get off your computer and get outside for the love of god, there isn't any war going on.
So...what? You're just going to punish all women because hardcore feminists are mean? I understand taking professional precautions, but you're acting like every woman in your life is a trained assassin aiming for your ass. Also, don't worry, it's really easy to tell your age from your paranoid overly aggressive worldview.
BTW, if you want to play the logical debate card, you probably shouldn't call random women on the internet 'neutral noncombatants' for not considering two niche keyboard warrior groups legitimate causes to rally behind. When you complain about women to other old male employers they complain back? Wow, really sounds like you're cooking up a revolution back there. Definitely not just natural griping that both sexes do to blow off steam.
+Ophelia Brock ...you should probably just ignore that troll. I guarantee every guy I've seen act like this... as soon as you hear them on stream or in discord or something, they have a high voice and very low T. It's all Compensation. ...that said... "Just want their paycheck" is quickly turning into _Just want Catharsis_ for every time they've felt slighted or _set upon_ by a man who might have been an actual `6` to their `6` but because they're women they're only flattered by it when the man's an `8` or a `9`. You cannot reasonably deny how women maintain a distinct Power Dynamic advantage as the unquestionable Gatekeepers of these interactions. As such, yes, they can and are progressively appearing more and more _entitled_ due to it. Continually raising the stakes for men ONLY, won't end well and I think that's the message the flustered young millennial guys of today seem to want to convey but just aren't adequately socialized to render with any degree of confidence
I agree that liberal millennials take way too much pleasure in crapping on guys and I sympathize with men who have to deal with defensive feminazis in and out of the dating scene.
But maybe I'm just trying to be optimistic as a fellow liberal millennial or maybe I just can't understand men's perspective, but I truly don't think it's an organized epidemic so much as loud SJWs stinking up twitter. I just don't think most women care about these politics enough to commit to being 'gatekeepers' and the popular 'who needs men?' empowerment anthem is going to get old really fast.
I really do hope guys find women who don't feel the need to exercise their independence by punishing men, but I don't think doing the exact same thing back is the right answer.
No gender is collectively evil or manipulative, and the only way to ease tensions is to encourage as much unbiased interaction as possible in my opinion.
Alex Davila I wouldn't call our issues with rape accusation a blatant power disparity. The law is equal and fair with burden of proof and innocent until proven guilty, you're talking about social media outrage and the real life consequences of that.
I do think there's a problem with our social response to baseless rape accusations, but again- not a power problem so much as a general fear of letting a rapist escape. The media response certainly isn't fueled solely by women, this is the kind of problem that could be helped through harsher sentencing of rapists so the paranoia isn't so severe and if the media would take some responsibility and stop fear mongering.
Again, I really sympathize. But this isn't he said, she said, and I think that kind of attitude is just playing right into these problems.
Also, having to record solitary interactions with customers and employees, while more important for men, is just the smart thing to do and plenty of companies do this even without the motivations you're assuming. I'm just saying, it's not the tragedy you're painting it out to be. It's just what you do to avoid being sued in the US.
The one and only Based Mom. Been waiting for your take for some time. I saw Dave Rubin tweet that Vox has cancelled their Christmas party. What a shame.
We should uphold due process without a doubt on all these allegations. However, I think we should also encourage women and men to draw lines, and have boundaries when they are in situations where people naturally let their hair down. Violate those boundaries, and you get in trouble.
How about having separate male and female parties? Like they do in Islamic countries? What could go wrong?
Wolfgang - What boundaries specifically? Who sets and enforces these boundaries? Who educates whom about what those boundaries are and why?
I think these are the fundamental questions that are insufficiently answered in your comment.
You seem serious about this. I am very curious: How do YOU answer these questions? How do you think they should be answered for others? Wha do you think the feminists leading this charge want to accomplish/change?
>Who educates them? --Well, I'd say friends and family.
>Who sets the boundaries? -- Since they are personal, I'd say they vary from individual to individual.
>If I do sound serious, it's only because I'm worried about false allegations. I do recall a story about a year or so ago about a young man who was falsely accused of rape who committed suicide. Subsequently, about a year later, the mother of this man committed suicide as well. It was a really tragic affair. That is my main concern.
>I really push the concept of boundaries, because I believe for one, that we can't enjoy the freedom we have in this country without some level of self-control and moderation. And I'm a big liberty guy. We live in a time when people think it's okay to just let oneself loose, and not give a care about the potential consequences or the dangers that can result from this.
"The one and only Based Mom."
She fucking RULESSSSSS!!
The way you speak it seems that there is a rape culture in the workforce with newly enlightened men more than willing to dob in a pervert. What no one is willing to admit is there are women who do use their sexuality, the casting couch, if you will, to get to the top. What about them?
You talk about "a step backwards". But when you are on the wrong path, a step backwards is a good idea. Simple Chastity and Modesty, what you described as "Puritanism", didn't arise out of nowhere. It developed as a method of safeguarding both men and women. Feminism removed those safeguards, simultaneously ignoring the perpetrators who supported Feminism. A few steps back would do us all a world of good.
I agree. Men courting women is a biological imperative. It's inevitable that, when you mix men and women in the workplace, courting will occur there too. As long as Feminists label flirting while male a Sin, it makes more sense to limit interaction between men and women at work than to ask men to fight biology.
Except that Europe is getting hit by the migrant hammer. And that is only going to get worse before it gets better.
It is a mix of things here. On the one hand, people are told "it's only sex. Have all you can, of whatever varieties you want".
On the other hand, we tell women "anything you don't like is sexual harassment. If they stink up the bathroom, it is sexual harassment". Then we get people defending Clinton and that ilk... "it's just sex. Don't be so repressed". Roman Polanski STILL gets defended. And depending on what feminist you talk to, prostitution is either a woman's right, or a tool of the patriarchy.
@Joseph Mantler Yes, Feminism is basically one big Barnum Statement. It's one of the reasons people call it a religion.
Oh yeah... Women had it so much better back then when they couldn't inherit property, or work outside the home, or get away from abusive relationships. Jesus Christ.
We all agree that sexual harassment must be fighted. But i would like to pinpoint a kind of behavior that many people seem to forget: girls harassing boys.
Of course it is not the same kind of harassment. But i would give my personnal example: I am not a powerful man. I just entered in the working life, but i would say that i already had to deal with a kind of sexual harassment.
It was during my PhD in biology. A girl wanted to be hired in my team. The kind of girls who knows she is handsome. She was clearly flirting with me. Kiss me at the very close edge of my lips and say "ho... I'm sorry i didn't mean to do that", touching my pectorals and say "i see that you take care of yourself", fainting to have many common hobbies etc etc...
It is not the kind of harassment that people think about because i was 100% consenting. But i didn't know she had a boyfriend (she "forgot" to tell me i guess). We never had sex but when she understood that i could'nt help her to be hire in my team, she just ghosted me. I never saw her again.
As i said, we never had sex, but then i realized that, if we did, i would have been considered as a kind of monster abusing of a poor girl. She could have sued me, she could have said to my boss that i forced her etc etc... Although she was the one flirting with me.
This is the kind of stories feminists "forget" to talk about when it comes to the sexual harassment at work stuff
This double standards and under the table behaviour is widespread. It must be held to account. We know what's going and it's underhanded to try to curry favour by breaking the rules and infringing on clear boundaries.
I'm not sure it's a sex panic. For as long as I can remember the rules were (1) NEVER be alone with a female in your office with the door closed. (2) if you had to go to her office, stand in the doorway if at all possible; if not, then stay in plain sight of the doorway. I don't ever remember working late, alone, with a female, only other males or in groups. (3) DON'T TOUCH. (4) don't compliment her person only her work related actions (5) no jokes, not even squeaky clean ones and (6) treat her like another guy except watch the language, no war stories and only engage in work related discussions.
As for having dinner with a woman not your wife, I never thought about it before Pence brought it up, but I realized that I've never had dinner, alone, with a woman not my wife. The one time I was on an overnight business trip, alone, with a woman of comparable age, I didn't even go to dinner. I ate in my room.
What Mike Pence expressed is true. It has always been an unwritten rule in the military not to be alone with ANY women while in uniform or on base. It serves very well to protect oneself, and I've always stuck to this way of thinking.