Westjet and Air Canada struck a mutually beneficial and quite possibly illegal gentlemen's agreement a few years ago, that each would massively scale down their operation in their respective halves of the country, offering only token competition while maintain virtual monopolies.
Competition between Canadian airlines is an absolute joke and non-existant at this point. The airlines have the same level of prices and have divided routes amongst themselves. As always, the government does nothing.
In Washington DC area metro pop of 6.3 million we have 3 major airports and hubs/bases or focus cities for all the US big 4 airlines, while Toronto metro of 6.7 million have only 2 choices with one airline controlling over half of the entire market. This is just one city in eastern Canada, add on other city pairs and they control over 70% of the country population. Air Canada is a monopoly.
100% they are no doubt playing and winning at Duopoly, Canada's favorite business themed game! We need more Porter and more Flair flights to keep them in check from both angles, the economy+ and ULCC aspects respectively...
Competition between Canadian airlines is an absolute joke and non-existant at this point. The airlines have the same level of prices and have divided routes amongst themselves. As always, the government does nothing.
I'm still mad at WestJet for that. They've gone downhill. They stranded me in Halifax for a trip connecting through Toronto and I had to bus to New Brunswick so that I could at least have some extended family to celebrate Christmas for that. Everyone on that flight was livid at the airline. The flight was cancelled basically last minute in a 6 AM flight and the reason for cancellation was because they didn't even have a plane available for Halifax. They were stuck in Western Canada thanks to "winter conditions." Porter (and even Air Canada) are now my go to's. Porter is awesome.
@dehavillandcanadatwinotter9621 yea the current CEO at Westjet doesn't understand the Canadian sector of the industry in my opinion. As for Porter they are on the right track but as I fly internationally they are useless to me.
They should have built a 300 km/h high-speed rail line from Windor, Ontario to Quebec City, Quebec some 15 years ago. If that had been done back then, there would be little demand for air travel because a one way trip would be around 90 minutes by rail at most between Toronto and Montreal.
300 km/h for "90 minutes at most" is 450 km. Toronto and Montreal are about 500 km apart in a straight line, before you consider more practical routings. Consider that the train cannot do 300 km/h over any whole route and you are way off. In practice the trip would certainly more than 1h45, and likely over 2h. I'd love high speed rail here, but let's be fair about what it can and can't do.
And then they could use the planes they use on those routes for more international or long haul (with the 777/787/A330) and the Dash 8, CRJ, E-Jet on more regional routes to connect smaller Canadian airports and select US destinations.
My grandfather was an engineer who worked on Mirabel, his and his colleuges professional opinion was that a single mega airport should have been built near Kingston with an HSR line connecting it to Toronto, Montreal and with a branch to Ottawa.
Last December, I flew between YYZ and YUL on the A321 (was originally an A330 but was swapped to an A321 with the redesigned cabin and exterior cameras!) and B777-300ER with AC. Great video!
I do this trip a lot. I generally prefer taking the train but I'll fly when its cheaper or when I have time constraints the train can't satisfy. Flying Porter to YTZ really is a treat. They'll soon be operating their Montreal flights out of YHU on the south shore. Flair used to operate this route with 737 MAX 8 planes and I used to see round trip prices as low as 96$!! One time, I caught a flight from Air Transat between these cities. It was a packed A330, which I think took longer to board/deplane than to actually fly the route. I'm guessing it was for repositioning. We really need to get on with building that high speed rail line...
I can't believe people in Toronto are complaining about the Billy Bishop airport and either want it to be completely removed (entitled islanders) or extended so that they can use jets (because some complain about turboprop noise despite it being similar noise levels or even quieter than most jets). These people live near or in Toronto downtown, its going to be noisy so what are they even thinking. I think its perfect as it is, should only need periodic renovations to keep it up to date.
Plans are under way to build high speed rail between these cities. Air Canada is a partner in one of the groups proposing to build and operate the line. Additionally Porter will begin service in and out of the new Montreal Metropolitan airport starting next year.
Plans for high-speed rail have been underway for 30+ years. And there's zero chance this new iteration goes anywhere meaningful in the next 10-15 years. As far as I am concerned, the short to medium term traffic will still be dominated by air travel. Long term though? It might force players like Porter to seriously reconsider their business strategy, and it might force Billy Bishop to close.
The A330/A321/A220/777-3 The 330 isn't usually full and it is a rocketship on takeoff 🚀 The 220 is so quite it is unbelievable if you haven't flown on it. You must give it a try. Also thanks for publishing quite a lot of Canadian content I sure do love it 🎉👌🏽👌🏽❤️
the a330 is generally underpowered.but i agree with you that a underpowered jet is still a rocket comapred to a mtow jet that is overpowered. but go a330 at mtow,its not a rocket ship anymore-it tends to be a cargo ship😂
I used to live in Toronto and for a few years went to McGill University in Montreal. Like so many university students I know, I often took these flights, first on WestJet, then on Air Canada, and Air Transat as well. Speaking on the narrator's remark on "you shouldn't have trouble finding a seat on this route", well, good luck if you're traveling at the beginning/end of university semesters as these flights will be sold out at least a month in advance because of students going to school or returning home. You need to book this route well over a month in advance. The reason why this route is so busy, besides people using this route as connecting flights, is because the ground transportation infrastructure is so poorly developed. That Megabus schedule you showed is likely several years old, as it has jacked up prices to at least $80-100 one way (approaching the cost of a flight) with less frequency than before. Also, Megabus is known for its terrible customer service and I was once viciously assaulted by one of their rude drivers at one point! It's why I permanently shifted to flying, and there is absolutely no good reason you should be taking Megabus - avoid at all costs. Via Rail is expensive and infrequent and often gets delayed because of freight trains. Driving, which I've done a couple times when I had a lot of time, takes ages and it's generally unpleasant. So this is why most people who travel between these two cities, fly. On WestJet, I have flown on this route the 737-600 and -700, on Air Canada the 787 and A220-300 (including on its first service to Toronto in Jan 2020), and Air Transat on the A321neo (my first time on that aircraft type was in Aug 2019). In 2021 I moved to Vancouver and so I stopped taking those flights.
I flew the route once in 1998 with LY from YYZ-YUL-TLV. The flight landed in Montreal to pick up/drop off passengers (depending on the route's direction) before continuing on to TLV or YYZ.
Our flight back from Geneva was delayed this spring causing us to miss our Air Canada connecting flight from Montreal to Toronto. We were booked on the next flight for Toronto less than an hour later.
The short nature of the trip and the number of flights between them is a demonstration of the necessity and viability of a high speed train route between these two cities.
You would only see the widebody service by Air Canada in late afternoon, usually with the 5pm departure on both direction. That coincides with the daily wave of red-eye departures from YUL and YYZ to Europe and South America, which generally are timed between 7pm and 9pm. The widebody is put into that time obviously to facilitate connecting passengers flying those red-eyes.
There is a certain distance of travel where high speed rail offers the quickest and cheapest option compared to car or plane. It just so happens that nearly all of Canada's metropolitan areas fall into this distance. Canada should really take a step into the 20th century with trains.
Will Air Canada ever bring back Rapidair with dedicated checkin and gates for Toronto - Montreal - Ottawa? Used to be flights every 20 minutes at peak times pre pandemic.
Yes, on both A320 and B737 (not sure about more specific types). I *hate* making that hop because it's such a giant waste of time, but sometimes you can get a cheaper ticket if you do it.
Another interesting one to look at is the route between Vancouver Harbour and Victoria Harbour. CXH to YWH, with flights every 20 minutes, and it's all done on floatplanes. Of course, there are fewer flights in the winter, as the days are shorter and float planes can't operate in the dark.
It seems to be the case You can book Montreal to Toronto vv flights via Air Transat website but all flights are codeshare flights operated by Porter Air Transat still has domestic flights however, for example Montreal to Quebec City are operated via Air Transat
@@LongHaulbySimpleFlying I flew this route a few years ago and it was on an Air Transat plane, so was not aware that Porter was now running the service as a code share. Thanks for the reply.
Air Transat has never operated between the two cities, and I say that from experience. Back in 2017 I used to fly frequently between the two cities and would see options from Transat appearing all the time. On several occasions, I'd book a flight with them, only for there to be a two hour delay with them cancelling the flight and rebooking me onto WestJet.
@@j2simpso my wife and I travelled many years to the Caribbean / Florida with Air Transat on their A300s and the flight would leave Toronto, go to Montreal and then down to the Caribbean. Quite often people would get off and we had to on several occasions to get our flight to our destination in the south. Coming home was the reverse. While in the south,m we met other people who were from Montreal who had to take Transat flight to Toronto from Montreal to continue on to the same destination, just a different day of the week. We have not flown with Transat since the pandemic, but I thought that this was how they regularly filled planes for the package holiday business.
It's crazy that rail takes over 5 hours by rail for just 540 km. The first connection in France I found of slightly longer length for comparison is 2h 13 by rail for 562 km. Granted selecting one without the need to transfer, but if you don't have a direct connection between your two biggest and most traveled between cities, where else do you. But even with transfers, anything over three hours is a bad joke. I knew the US didn't have any rail system worth a damn, but Canada too? I'd have expected something at least in that densly populated area around the Great Lakes and southern Québec.
@@dmitripogosian5084 They were talking about Toronto to Montreal, which is 5h 30 by car according to Google Maps. But even in Germany without a maximum speed limit on some parts of the high way the average speed of intercity trains should be significantly faster than cars, let alone if you are limited to something more like 120 or 130 km/h or the likes.
@@autarchprinceps What I mean, there are still plenty of flights between Edmonton and Calgary, despite the fact that it is practically faster to drive between two airports. Presence of ground transportation does not kill flights that are for transit further.
@@dmitripogosian5084 Some countries just don't allow flights then. I think France banned any flight that could be replaced by a train journey of less than 2.5 hours. For car travel, you'd first need to have or rent a car, but train and flight are equivalent in how they are paid and operated in most regards, so as long as the train travel time is short enough, there are no disadvantages. Eventually the flight will be faster of course, and in some cases, particularly very small islands or other inhospitable area it may be more effective to have an air field rather than a bridge/tunnel/ferry. To a certain extend I could see that being true very far in Canada's North as well, but for the two biggest cities in a densely populated area it's just sad not to have any high speed rail options.
@@autarchprinceps Yes, France did that, as far as i heard. Which needs to be kept in mind when people say that TGV displaced Paris - Lyon flights. I remember quite well when they coexisted, TGV is not that new after all. Also useful to remember in in Paris TGV goes straight into CDG terminal (as in AMS and FRA, other big transit airports), so can be used in place of air connection. It would be a pretty downgrade if you had to go from Lyon to Paris Gare de Lyon and then catch RER to CDG instead of flying if you to fly further
Not really surprised. I once flew into Montreal with Air Canada from Europe and missed my connection to Toronto City. They just put me on the next flight - AN HOUR LATER. How can they have hourly services to such a tiny little city airport? 😅 (I'm not sure they still offer hourly services - might be a little less frequent now) Would love to see some high speed direct train connections though. It's such a prime example of a city pair where high speed rail would work sooooo well, but alas, we can't have nice things.
The widebody flights are mostly about aircraft utilization. Air Canada would rather send their big birds on a short hop in the late afternoon before the next red-eye than to have them sit idle. That is also why we sometimes get A330's in YHZ.
Not actually the busiest city pair in Canada in terms of flights. There are more flights daily between YVR/CXH and YYJ/YWH; although in smaller aircraft.
It takes at least 5 hours to go by train - Via rail. So makes sense. You can be crammed in a dash 8 for an hour, or stuck on a train, until recently 50+ year old trains with AC that cant keep up in the peak of summer.
Here is what google says for 10 largest cities in Canada: Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton, Mississauga, North York, Winnipeg, Scarborough, and Vancouver
Busiest corridor in our entire country, and due to liberal corruption we still don’t have an economical train lol. I bet half the train cost is fees to national rail and taxes and carbon taxes. 😂
With China's help, a high-speed rail would easily connect Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor and take the whole trip within 150 minutes. Also, it would be completed within 5 years from zero. Period.
Don't count on China producing anything reliable and profitable...or on time. China's high speed network is losing money hand over fist due to falling ridership and high cost due to poor quality.
@@charlesharper2357 Poor guy, if you ever been to China and taken on their bullet train, you will understand how stupid every single word you typed above. If Chinese manufacturing is 'poor', everything made in North America could only be called 'trash'
Too bad the runway extensions at Toronto City/Billy Bishop weren't allowed by Trudeau Jr aka Lil Fidel because that would have allowed A220 service directly from the Harbourfront to places as far away as Los Angeles and London! That's how good the A220-100 is at STOL jet service!
If Via Rail was not so crazily overpriced, and actually functioned like a state owned railway operator, and not like a greedy low cost airline, even that would work to get a lot of passengers of planes. But if above that they electrify this route and put literally Canadian made tilting Acela, plus adjust signals they can easily drop travel time by almosf a half and other than hub feeder flights, YUL - YYZ/YYT route will become useless.
I have zero hope for a Canadian HSR project to go as smoothly as it has to. I am fully expecting it to rival even the California HSR for cost and bureaucratic shenanigans.
@@a21npilot91 Nah, it may cut flights in half, but not more. Where Air Canada flys from YUL and YYZ is quite different, so transit connectors will remain
No high speed rail, only 1 real road route to them, lots of connecting flights to international and even domestic or transborder flights to elsewhere while the government has also made them a bottleneck. That's how you get 40 flights daily between them. Fly from Morocco into YUL then to YTZ
Actually, I noticed Air Canada moving a lot of transit to Montreal from YYZ. From Edmonton, YYZ was the default transfer point, now the last 6 European trips I took over last 2+ years were all via YUL I think I have not been to YYZ since COVID. And in previous 20 years I have been to YUL like twice
Westjet and Air Canada struck a mutually beneficial and quite possibly illegal gentlemen's agreement a few years ago, that each would massively scale down their operation in their respective halves of the country, offering only token competition while maintain virtual monopolies.
Competition between Canadian airlines is an absolute joke and non-existant at this point. The airlines have the same level of prices and have divided routes amongst themselves. As always, the government does nothing.
Quite possibly!
It’s the Canadian way. Whole country is 5 corporations in a trench coat
In Washington DC area metro pop of 6.3 million we have 3 major airports and hubs/bases or focus cities for all the US big 4 airlines, while Toronto metro of 6.7 million have only 2 choices with one airline controlling over half of the entire market. This is just one city in eastern Canada, add on other city pairs and they control over 70% of the country population. Air Canada is a monopoly.
100% they are no doubt playing and winning at Duopoly, Canada's favorite business themed game! We need more Porter and more Flair flights to keep them in check from both angles, the economy+ and ULCC aspects respectively...
West jet pulled routes in the east and Air Canada shut down some western flights at almost the same time. Just a coincidence I'm sure.
Competition between Canadian airlines is an absolute joke and non-existant at this point. The airlines have the same level of prices and have divided routes amongst themselves. As always, the government does nothing.
Calculated by both CEOs, meanwhile Porter has been attempting to takeover those routes left by both the larger airlines.
Wink wink, nudge nudge 😂
I'm still mad at WestJet for that. They've gone downhill. They stranded me in Halifax for a trip connecting through Toronto and I had to bus to New Brunswick so that I could at least have some extended family to celebrate Christmas for that. Everyone on that flight was livid at the airline. The flight was cancelled basically last minute in a 6 AM flight and the reason for cancellation was because they didn't even have a plane available for Halifax. They were stuck in Western Canada thanks to "winter conditions." Porter (and even Air Canada) are now my go to's. Porter is awesome.
@dehavillandcanadatwinotter9621 yea the current CEO at Westjet doesn't understand the Canadian sector of the industry in my opinion. As for Porter they are on the right track but as I fly internationally they are useless to me.
They should have built a 300 km/h high-speed rail line from Windor, Ontario to Quebec City, Quebec some 15 years ago. If that had been done back then, there would be little demand for air travel because a one way trip would be around 90 minutes by rail at most between Toronto and Montreal.
300 km/h for "90 minutes at most" is 450 km.
Toronto and Montreal are about 500 km apart in a straight line, before you consider more practical routings.
Consider that the train cannot do 300 km/h over any whole route and you are way off. In practice the trip would certainly more than 1h45, and likely over 2h.
I'd love high speed rail here, but let's be fair about what it can and can't do.
I hope they decide to route it through Ottawa, as I take the train from Toronto to Ottawa often
*30 years
And then they could use the planes they use on those routes for more international or long haul (with the 777/787/A330) and the Dash 8, CRJ, E-Jet on more regional routes to connect smaller Canadian airports and select US destinations.
My grandfather was an engineer who worked on Mirabel, his and his colleuges professional opinion was that a single mega airport should have been built near Kingston with an HSR line connecting it to Toronto, Montreal and with a branch to Ottawa.
Rumour has it that there will be high-speed train between both cities, maybe by the year 2300 !
Maglev-!
NOT high speed, it's calling for High frequency......
@@Traineddummy Well, it's supposed to go faster, not covering the route in 6 hours, which is annoying, even if they have more trips a day.
I like your optimism
Last December, I flew between YYZ and YUL on the A321 (was originally an A330 but was swapped to an A321 with the redesigned cabin and exterior cameras!) and B777-300ER with AC. Great video!
I do this trip a lot. I generally prefer taking the train but I'll fly when its cheaper or when I have time constraints the train can't satisfy. Flying Porter to YTZ really is a treat. They'll soon be operating their Montreal flights out of YHU on the south shore. Flair used to operate this route with 737 MAX 8 planes and I used to see round trip prices as low as 96$!! One time, I caught a flight from Air Transat between these cities. It was a packed A330, which I think took longer to board/deplane than to actually fly the route. I'm guessing it was for repositioning. We really need to get on with building that high speed rail line...
The fact that non-high speed rail can cost more than flying is utterly asinine
as low as 96 dollars? im shocked in ryanair and wizzjet prices
I can't believe people in Toronto are complaining about the Billy Bishop airport and either want it to be completely removed (entitled islanders) or extended so that they can use jets (because some complain about turboprop noise despite it being similar noise levels or even quieter than most jets). These people live near or in Toronto downtown, its going to be noisy so what are they even thinking. I think its perfect as it is, should only need periodic renovations to keep it up to date.
Plans are under way to build high speed rail between these cities. Air Canada is a partner in one of the groups proposing to build and operate the line.
Additionally Porter will begin service in and out of the new Montreal Metropolitan airport starting next year.
Well then I guess this will no longer be a problem by 2047
@@MaxwellAerialPhotographythats better than never
Plans for high-speed rail have been underway for 30+ years. And there's zero chance this new iteration goes anywhere meaningful in the next 10-15 years.
As far as I am concerned, the short to medium term traffic will still be dominated by air travel. Long term though? It might force players like Porter to seriously reconsider their business strategy, and it might force Billy Bishop to close.
Over 7 hours to travel 316 miles by rail (average 45mph) is a disgrace for a modern economy.
Meanwhile Southwest successfully lobbies and astroturfs against any high speed rail between Dallas and Houston.
The A330/A321/A220/777-3
The 330 isn't usually full and it is a rocketship on takeoff 🚀
The 220 is so quite it is unbelievable if you haven't flown on it. You must give it a try.
Also thanks for publishing quite a lot of Canadian content I sure do love it 🎉👌🏽👌🏽❤️
the a330 is generally underpowered.but i agree with you that a underpowered jet is still a rocket comapred to a mtow jet that is overpowered.
but go a330 at mtow,its not a rocket ship anymore-it tends to be a cargo ship😂
It makes sense to build a high-speed rail link between these 2 cities plus Ottawa.
I used to live in Toronto and for a few years went to McGill University in Montreal. Like so many university students I know, I often took these flights, first on WestJet, then on Air Canada, and Air Transat as well. Speaking on the narrator's remark on "you shouldn't have trouble finding a seat on this route", well, good luck if you're traveling at the beginning/end of university semesters as these flights will be sold out at least a month in advance because of students going to school or returning home. You need to book this route well over a month in advance. The reason why this route is so busy, besides people using this route as connecting flights, is because the ground transportation infrastructure is so poorly developed. That Megabus schedule you showed is likely several years old, as it has jacked up prices to at least $80-100 one way (approaching the cost of a flight) with less frequency than before. Also, Megabus is known for its terrible customer service and I was once viciously assaulted by one of their rude drivers at one point! It's why I permanently shifted to flying, and there is absolutely no good reason you should be taking Megabus - avoid at all costs. Via Rail is expensive and infrequent and often gets delayed because of freight trains. Driving, which I've done a couple times when I had a lot of time, takes ages and it's generally unpleasant. So this is why most people who travel between these two cities, fly.
On WestJet, I have flown on this route the 737-600 and -700, on Air Canada the 787 and A220-300 (including on its first service to Toronto in Jan 2020), and Air Transat on the A321neo (my first time on that aircraft type was in Aug 2019). In 2021 I moved to Vancouver and so I stopped taking those flights.
Come mid-2025, Porter will offer service out of Montreal Saint Hubert-Longueuil Airport (YHU), too!
Say what? i thought that was a general aviation airport!!
@@theaviationlover_official They're building a brand new terminal in partnership with Pascan (regional provider) in YHU!
@@theaviationlover_officialIt is until next year! I work out of Yhu and I can see the progress being made every week, I can’t wait
@@theaviationlover_officialthe new terminal will include 9 jetways
@@pierreolive damn! 9 jetways is crazy
I flew the route once in 1998 with LY from YYZ-YUL-TLV. The flight landed in Montreal to pick up/drop off passengers (depending on the route's direction) before continuing on to TLV or YYZ.
Our flight back from Geneva was delayed this spring causing us to miss our Air Canada connecting flight from Montreal to Toronto. We were booked on the next flight for Toronto less than an hour later.
Such a busy air route! I thought Flair and Air Transat are there, which I previously flew with.
Love flying between YYZ and YUL. Literally can do a 24 adventure and go back home at the end of the day 🙌🏼
The short nature of the trip and the number of flights between them is a demonstration of the necessity and viability of a high speed train route between these two cities.
Thank you Simple Flying. Always top notch.
You would only see the widebody service by Air Canada in late afternoon, usually with the 5pm departure on both direction. That coincides with the daily wave of red-eye departures from YUL and YYZ to Europe and South America, which generally are timed between 7pm and 9pm. The widebody is put into that time obviously to facilitate connecting passengers flying those red-eyes.
I was just thinking about this after watching your video on the busiest US domestic routes!
The argument that there is no demand for high speed rail is ridiculous while we have 40 daily flights, let alone all the 401 drivers making the trip.
There is a certain distance of travel where high speed rail offers the quickest and cheapest option compared to car or plane.
It just so happens that nearly all of Canada's metropolitan areas fall into this distance.
Canada should really take a step into the 20th century with trains.
Will Air Canada ever bring back Rapidair with dedicated checkin and gates for Toronto - Montreal - Ottawa? Used to be flights every 20 minutes at peak times pre pandemic.
Yes, on both A320 and B737 (not sure about more specific types). I *hate* making that hop because it's such a giant waste of time, but sometimes you can get a cheaper ticket if you do it.
Another interesting one to look at is the route between Vancouver Harbour and Victoria Harbour. CXH to YWH, with flights every 20 minutes, and it's all done on floatplanes. Of course, there are fewer flights in the winter, as the days are shorter and float planes can't operate in the dark.
The video proves why we need a Canadian HSR line from Toronto to Montreal and beyond...
Never know on that route what you'll get could be a CRJ or a 330 and every thing in between
Air Transat used to do Montreal to Toronto, but I think they pulled out and use porter because of their codeshare agreement unfortunately
It seems to be the case
You can book Montreal to Toronto vv flights via Air Transat website but all flights are codeshare flights operated by Porter
Air Transat still has domestic flights however, for example Montreal to Quebec City are operated via Air Transat
It sometimes did it if it picks up passengers from both cities to go further. Or return from somewhere to Toronto flight to Montreal base
This is why if there ever is High Speed Rail in Canada it will be in this corridor first...
1000% it will and should be.
Air Transat flies about 4 times daily between Montreal and Toronto.
All the Air Transat flights we found were codeshares that were actually operated by Porter.
@@LongHaulbySimpleFlying I flew this route a few years ago and it was on an Air Transat plane, so was not aware that Porter was now running the service as a code share. Thanks for the reply.
Air Transat has never operated between the two cities, and I say that from experience. Back in 2017 I used to fly frequently between the two cities and would see options from Transat appearing all the time. On several occasions, I'd book a flight with them, only for there to be a two hour delay with them cancelling the flight and rebooking me onto WestJet.
@@j2simpso my wife and I travelled many years to the Caribbean / Florida with Air Transat on their A300s and the flight would leave Toronto, go to Montreal and then down to the Caribbean. Quite often people would get off and we had to on several occasions to get our flight to our destination in the south. Coming home was the reverse. While in the south,m we met other people who were from Montreal who had to take Transat flight to Toronto from Montreal to continue on to the same destination, just a different day of the week. We have not flown with Transat since the pandemic, but I thought that this was how they regularly filled planes for the package holiday business.
@@j2simpso That's wrong. I flew with Air Transat A321LR two years ago between YUL and YYZ.
It's crazy that rail takes over 5 hours by rail for just 540 km. The first connection in France I found of slightly longer length for comparison is 2h 13 by rail for 562 km. Granted selecting one without the need to transfer, but if you don't have a direct connection between your two biggest and most traveled between cities, where else do you. But even with transfers, anything over three hours is a bad joke. I knew the US didn't have any rail system worth a damn, but Canada too? I'd have expected something at least in that densly populated area around the Great Lakes and southern Québec.
Well, Edmonton Calgary distance between the airports is 2 hours 30 min by car
@@dmitripogosian5084 They were talking about Toronto to Montreal, which is 5h 30 by car according to Google Maps. But even in Germany without a maximum speed limit on some parts of the high way the average speed of intercity trains should be significantly faster than cars, let alone if you are limited to something more like 120 or 130 km/h or the likes.
@@autarchprinceps What I mean, there are still plenty of flights between Edmonton and Calgary, despite the fact that it is practically faster to drive between two airports. Presence of ground transportation does not kill flights that are for transit further.
@@dmitripogosian5084 Some countries just don't allow flights then. I think France banned any flight that could be replaced by a train journey of less than 2.5 hours. For car travel, you'd first need to have or rent a car, but train and flight are equivalent in how they are paid and operated in most regards, so as long as the train travel time is short enough, there are no disadvantages. Eventually the flight will be faster of course, and in some cases, particularly very small islands or other inhospitable area it may be more effective to have an air field rather than a bridge/tunnel/ferry. To a certain extend I could see that being true very far in Canada's North as well, but for the two biggest cities in a densely populated area it's just sad not to have any high speed rail options.
@@autarchprinceps Yes, France did that, as far as i heard. Which needs to be kept in mind when people say that TGV displaced Paris - Lyon flights. I remember quite well when they coexisted, TGV is not that new after all. Also useful to remember in in Paris TGV goes straight into CDG terminal (as in AMS and FRA, other big transit airports), so can be used in place of air connection. It would be a pretty downgrade if you had to go from Lyon to Paris Gare de Lyon and then catch RER to CDG instead of flying if you to fly further
I have flown Toronto to Montreal and back before I flew out on the Boeing 737 MAX 8 and came back in on an airbus A320 200
Not really surprised. I once flew into Montreal with Air Canada from Europe and missed my connection to Toronto City. They just put me on the next flight - AN HOUR LATER. How can they have hourly services to such a tiny little city airport? 😅 (I'm not sure they still offer hourly services - might be a little less frequent now) Would love to see some high speed direct train connections though. It's such a prime example of a city pair where high speed rail would work sooooo well, but alas, we can't have nice things.
It would be cool to fly on a plane that is used for NHL charter flights.
The widebody flights are mostly about aircraft utilization. Air Canada would rather send their big birds on a short hop in the late afternoon before the next red-eye than to have them sit idle. That is also why we sometimes get A330's in YHZ.
Not actually the busiest city pair in Canada in terms of flights.
There are more flights daily between YVR/CXH and YYJ/YWH; although in smaller aircraft.
It takes at least 5 hours to go by train - Via rail. So makes sense. You can be crammed in a dash 8 for an hour, or stuck on a train, until recently 50+ year old trains with AC that cant keep up in the peak of summer.
They used 787s until at least 2019, haven't seen them in a while for that route, I fly it frequently
You compare this to Los Angeles to San Fransisco and I would imagine it would be similar, since the cities are a similar distance away from each other
Air Canada's head office is in Montreal but its busiest base is YYZ so there is much back and forthing for that.
I think Simple Flying should explore short-haul Southeast Asia flights, particularly Jakarta-Denpasar
Not sure if they still fly the route, but flew 2 years ago on Air Transat YUL - YYZ A330-300… most likely a reposition flight
We still do. It’s just a seasonal service we used during summer to shuttle people between the two cities
That route should really be replaced by a high speed rail line, but the government is too busy diverting money to their buddies to actually build it.
For some reason I thought it'd be Vancouver - Victoria YVR - YYJ
Flying doesn't make sense for that route, it should be a high speed train.
Back in the days when I used to drink, when we'd be going for pints (usually Guinness), we'd say we're going to drink porter.
"Your connection should be easy at Pearson" said no Canadian ever 😂😂 Canadian jokes 😂😂
0:43 lol literally jeju to gimpo has like 100+ flights 😂😂😂
Ideal for business meetings or card games! LOL!
Please examine Mumbai to Delhi route too!
No mention on oligopoly pricing? :)
Air Canada Jetz operates in all premium economy instead of business
and the next busiest...cross country from YYZ to YVR
YVR - YYC has more flights than YVR - YYZ, YYZ - YYC is also busier than YYZ - YVR
I have flown more times between YUL and YYZ than I wish to count. Much prefer Billy Bishop when it makes sense.
Hight Speed Rail will doom this airport pair as it did for Paris-Lyon.
All of these flights because we have horrible train service.
At least you have train service
Montreal the second largest?? Might want to fact check that, eh? 😅
City ? I am pretty sure. Metropolitan area, not as obvious.
Here is what google says for 10 largest cities in Canada: Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, Ottawa, Edmonton, Mississauga, North York, Winnipeg, Scarborough, and Vancouver
😊
An utter failure of Canadian transport. A complete embarrassment for a country that claims to be serious about addressing climate change.
Busiest corridor in our entire country, and due to liberal corruption we still don’t have an economical train lol. I bet half the train cost is fees to national rail and taxes and carbon taxes. 😂
With China's help, a high-speed rail would easily connect Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal corridor and take the whole trip within 150 minutes. Also, it would be completed within 5 years from zero. Period.
Don't count on China producing anything reliable and profitable...or on time.
China's high speed network is losing money hand over fist due to falling ridership and high cost due to poor quality.
@@charlesharper2357 Poor guy, if you ever been to China and taken on their bullet train, you will understand how stupid every single word you typed above. If Chinese manufacturing is 'poor', everything made in North America could only be called 'trash'
Too bad the runway extensions at Toronto City/Billy Bishop weren't allowed by Trudeau Jr aka Lil Fidel because that would have allowed A220 service directly from the Harbourfront to places as far away as Los Angeles and London! That's how good the A220-100 is at STOL jet service!
Doug Ford actually tried to get the airport closed. It's mostly political pandering on all sides to the NIMBY's with condos on the Toronto waterfront
Desperately needs a high speed electrified rail line between these 2 cities.
40 flights a day is madness for climate control.
If Via Rail was not so crazily overpriced, and actually functioned like a state owned railway operator, and not like a greedy low cost airline, even that would work to get a lot of passengers of planes. But if above that they electrify this route and put literally Canadian made tilting Acela, plus adjust signals they can easily drop travel time by almosf a half and other than hub feeder flights, YUL - YYZ/YYT route will become useless.
I have zero hope for a Canadian HSR project to go as smoothly as it has to. I am fully expecting it to rival even the California HSR for cost and bureaucratic shenanigans.
@@a21npilot91 well the issue with normal rail is that it's still a 500km journey which takes 5h+ on a rail.
@@AirShark95 And take at least 10 years to complete
@@a21npilot91 Nah, it may cut flights in half, but not more. Where Air Canada flys from YUL and YYZ is quite different, so transit connectors will remain
No high speed rail, only 1 real road route to them, lots of connecting flights to international and even domestic or transborder flights to elsewhere while the government has also made them a bottleneck. That's how you get 40 flights daily between them. Fly from Morocco into YUL then to YTZ
Actually, I noticed Air Canada moving a lot of transit to Montreal from YYZ. From Edmonton, YYZ was the default transfer point, now the last 6 European trips I took over last 2+ years were all via YUL I think I have not been to YYZ since COVID. And in previous 20 years I have been to YUL like twice