Pickleball Struggle! What's Holding These Players Back From Being Better Than 3.0? Watch & Find Out!

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  • Опубліковано 21 гру 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 83

  • @markgeg6111
    @markgeg6111 Місяць тому +2

    Rory, I know one friend (at the 4.0 level) who wears a glove while playing indoors/outdoors. He hates how it feels and looks but has a horribly sweaty palm when playing. It’s the only thing he can use to keep a grip on his paddle.

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      As a fellow sweaty palms person, I figured I'd suggest they may also want to try different grip/over grips. I have some over grip I purchased from Head that are black, fairly tacky, nicely textured and even do a fairly good job of wicking sweat away. It has removed the fears I had of not being able to hold the paddle on harder hit shots, like overheads. I do not have any fear when playing and it feels a lot better to the touch. Just mentioning it as it may be an option. I agree that I like my feedback and I'm not sure I'd get the same with a glove on.

  • @gmont66g
    @gmont66g Місяць тому +2

    Another thing i noticed (Rory didn't mention) is the total lack of split-stepping. Notice how they always hit the ball while in motion, that's a big source of unforced errors.
    It's really fascinating to see other people's games and realize my group of players makes the SAME mistakes over and over.
    So IMO the key to get out of this 3.0 nightmare is:
    - footwork: you can't get to 3.5 until you move better in court
    - split step: crucial to be able to hit better shots
    - ability to control your shots to keep the ball low (3rd shots, resets)
    - patience: you gotta learn that banging the ball at every shot is not gonna work
    - gotta develop good returns
    - keep the ball in play: what we see is players trying to deliver winners at every shot; you should simply wait for the opponents to make the 1st mistake

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Foot work is so important. I see players hitting the ball when moving forward all the time. Most of the time it goes into the net.

  • @adelinesdad
    @adelinesdad Місяць тому +2

    Watching how the ball is jumping off their paddles, I'd guess they mostly have a death grip on them. Softening their grips might help them add more touch and control. That and shortening their backswings, as you mentioned, and follow throughs.

    • @AnnMitt
      @AnnMitt Місяць тому

      That death grip will also eventually cause arm pain.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Thanks for watching and for your insights. Good point that their grips may be too tight

  • @bob9749
    @bob9749 Місяць тому +2

    1. There were times in the video in which Rory would talk about a 3rd shot drop vs popping the ball up in which I thought there was a player on the defending team that had not moved up to the kitchen, stopping in the transition zone. I'm a low level player and I'd have been hitting the ball at the player who hadn't finished moving forward, either a drive or near the feet, so as to avoid dragging the second defender up to the kitchen. Am I missing something?
    2. For most of the game the game the number of shallow serves, shallow returns, simple mishits and popups made this seem more like a 2.25 game than a 3.0 game.

    • @jimstaub2308
      @jimstaub2308 Місяць тому +3

      Agreed. IMO, as painful as it is to watch these players, I hope they are not truly 3.0 players.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      I appreciate you bringing that up. You are correct. If a player does not move up after returning a serve, there is no need to hit a third shot drop. Just hit the ball to them and keep them back.

    • @paulseminara2483
      @paulseminara2483 Місяць тому

      @@jimstaub2308 They are actually 2.5, no way are these folks 3.0.

  • @michaelnoe1195
    @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому +1

    One note, at 8:15ish, you praise a 3rd shot drop and I don't want to knock the shot but it's actually a 3.0 mistake. In this case, while the shot itself was pretty nice, the better shot is to play the shot at the opponent's feet that is still in transition. This actually just pulls them up to the kitchen and allowed the other player to poach which is not what you'd be trying to accomplish.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому +2

      Good point. Thanks for pointing that out. I'm not perfect.

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      @@pickleballpick-apart9787 It surely wasn't to point that out, but I've heard you give that advice many times and I believe the shot made was unexpected and you were noting more about the shot rather than the play itself.

    • @aljerones99
      @aljerones99 Місяць тому +1

      I'm not sure I agree. The player was running forward as she made the shot. At the 3.0 level, either a drop or drive while rushing forward is hard to make accurately. She might not have made the drop shot deliberately but her intention resulted in a good play either way!
      Notice that the (far end) male player intervened to respond to the play and while under pressure, the woman still managed to successfully, split step and return it with a backhand reset. This she did, while her partner was still in the transition zone. In my mind, this is commendable 3.0 level playing. Here, her instincts and athleticism seemed to kick in. Perhaps, if her partner were at the NVZ sooner, he could have helped by returning the ball that clipped the net. It's a hard get but it can be done. I've done it a few times, myself.

  • @ryanterracino
    @ryanterracino Місяць тому +1

    The main observations: All of them are jumping or not maintaining a solid center of gravity. Be a little more stable and take a step or two max. Second is almost all of them are holding their paddles too low. This is causing bigger swings than necessary as Rory mentioned. Lastly, aside from swings needing to be compact, is it seems like they are trying to win the point with each swing. As we know at higher levels, not every shot is going to be a winner so may be best to setup the next shot when you're in a better position.
    Great analysis Rory!

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Thanks. I appreciate it. What you wrote is spot on. Some people have little patience and just want to get the fun over as quickly as possible.

  • @AnnMitt
    @AnnMitt Місяць тому +5

    This type of pickleball is absolutely miserable. I played clown show pb for a year. It was only through lessons and drilling that I advanced slightly out of the chaos.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому +1

      Glad you took the time to take lessons and drill. It's much more fun when you advance in skill level. Thanks for watching.

  • @forthedoggiesguitars2277
    @forthedoggiesguitars2277 Місяць тому

    Should you be back peddling like that taking shots?

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      No. Not a good idea. It's like asking for a concussion. Instead, pivot and run forward towards the ball. Thanks for pointing that out.

  • @mddale
    @mddale Місяць тому

    Some pros overwrap their grips to make them fatter. I wear a very thin golf glove to achieve that PLUS it pulls sweat from fingers, palm, hand back, I can wipe my face on the back, it keeps my grips from getting slick with oils and dirt. Surprised everyone doesn't use them! Maybe try it. Considering all of the other variables like indoor/outdoor balls, ambient temp, court surfaces, ball manufacturer, paddle mfgr/construction/thickness/age/wear ... the effect of a glove on sensitivity vanishes into insignificance.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Well...it's ok to disagree. My argument is, if a glove is such a good idea, why do 99% of all professional players NOT wear one? You're right about the rest. Some players think it doesn't matter what ball or paddle is used. Both make a difference. Thanks for watching.

  • @dm11554
    @dm11554 Місяць тому +2

    The near court woman constantly hitting shots with her wonky backhand when they should have been forehand shots for better control and placement . They look like they are very new players, so hopefully they improve with experience.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      I'm thinking they're new as well. If they keep practicing correctly, they will become better. Thanks for watching.

    • @dm11554
      @dm11554 Місяць тому

      @@pickleballpick-apart9787 If they have been playing for a year or more, they need lessons and a clinic. Very poor play.

  • @lobstercrostini
    @lobstercrostini Місяць тому

    Gloves help a little with vibration and tennis elbow. It's also a confidence and comfort booster for some people

  • @limulus61
    @limulus61 Місяць тому +1

    Salome Davidze wears a two fingered glove called The One.

  • @joedavies372
    @joedavies372 Місяць тому +3

    I think ex racquet ball players wear gloves because that is what they are used to. It’s not about sweat on their hands.

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      I never used a glove during the time I did play racquetball but that makes some sense. I didn't play for long though.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому +4

      Racquetball is the only racket sport in which I know players wear gloves. That's because the game is so violent and they swing so hard. If you will notice, there is an attachment on a racquetball racket that loops around the wrist to keep the paddle from flying away.

    • @joedavies372
      @joedavies372 Місяць тому

      @ I understand the racquet loop, as I still play RB. It was natural for me to wear a glove when I started to play Pickleball, as I have a PB paddle with the same grip size as my RB racquet. I moved away from the glove for PB recently by putting two grips on my paddle, and am hoping for a better feel on the paddle. Thanks for your videos

    • @davidaronson9475
      @davidaronson9475 Місяць тому

      Yes, many professional racquetball players wear gloves on their racquet hand to improve their grip and prevent slipping

    • @thespadestable
      @thespadestable Місяць тому +1

      ​​@@michaelnoe1195-
      I'm a former racquetball player (started in 1987), and out of familiarity I began playing pickleball in 2021 wearing a glove. In 2023 after being repeatedly advised by more experienced players to get away from wearing a glove, I gave it a try, and after about a month I began to notice an improvement with dinking and touch shots.
      Haven't worn a glove since March.

  • @cozcamaligan9254
    @cozcamaligan9254 Місяць тому

    Hey Rory. Great stuff you got. Can you critique an international game. I think the content creator is “Natalie”. I think she is Asian. I just watched a women dbls Peru v China Taipei. Like to know what level you think they are and your thoughts on outside USA games.

  • @michaelnoe1195
    @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

    At the 3.0 level most every point will be due to an unforced error. I would assume looping swing is an attempt to generate top spin. There could be a whole lesson on why a shorter backswing is a better option including more control, recovery time and hand speed. In the end improving will be improved by play, drills and training. I would suggest finding a local person to teach them basic strategy and techniques. I would also suggest watching games from higher level players locally and online to see how their games differ. Things like depth of serves, returns, 3rd shots, where you stand for the 2nd shot and so on.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому +1

      Those are pretty much the exact same things I suggested they do. I don't know if you saw me mention that at the end of the video. You are spot on with your comments.

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      I missed those as I watched it as it first played a few minutes delayed. I got to the end and wanted to respond but didn't want to do it without a page reload. I did just listen to the end and very sound advice indeed.

  • @okayest_amateur
    @okayest_amateur Місяць тому

    Running around the back hand to hit the forehand 100% correct, until you develop a killer topspin backhand, glad you mentioned it. I still see tons of players insist on hitting their backhand slice instead of their topspin forehand because they don't have the foot work yet. However there is nothing wrong with a loopy forehand. I mean his was terrible but the concept of a larger swing is a well established tenant of modern tennis. It is not as well accepted in pickleball but it will be because the physics principles are the same. The C shape swing pattern is essential to topspin drive technique. If your swing is too short you will not have enough consistency to hit the topspin drive because your strike zone is too narrow. Furthermore if you are at the back of the court there is plenty of time to setup for this shot. The compact forehand stroke is the most powerful variant because it maximizes wrist lag and body rotation. But I believe you would still consider this "loopy". There are only 2 reasons to shorten up the backswing. 1. your trying to control the power so the ball doesnt go out. 2. you don't have enough time. Reason 2 is absolutely valid especially in transition and at the net. Reason one is due to hitting the ball flat or poor technique. Every topspin drive from the baseline to the transition zone can be hit with 100% force without going out if you have the proper technique (not saying strategically you should hit 100%). And part of that is having a loopy forehand. I am a 4.4 DUPR and the drive is my main weapon.

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      Interesting post. Having come from tennis myself, though 20+ years removed, I can have longer ground strokes and over heads than many players. While I don't think those are wrong, I think your #2 is the primary reason not to get in that habit. This is going to depend on each player and their ability to prepare, their physical speed and how well the shot was executed. If you drive it at me, my goal is to quickly put it right back at your feet. Assuming the speed of your drive is pretty quick, I'd expect it to return pretty fast as well. I also think not every player should be using that swing method as a starting spot, eg 3.0, unless you did come from a sport in which you've already mastered it. If I was teaching a new player I would focus on a shorter back swing. Then later on I could make them aware of options.

    • @okayest_amateur
      @okayest_amateur Місяць тому +1

      @@michaelnoe1195 Good point considering the audience (3.0) I'm thinking more return of serve from the baseline. There should be plenty of time for a good backswing assuming you have good footwork. But yes it is somewhat of an advanced shot for people who didn't come from racket sports. Also if you drive and the opponent blocks at your feet you did something wrong lol! The ball should drop in transition the majority of time.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      I wonder what Jack Sock would say about having a long, loopy back swing. He has the most feared forehand in pickleball and he doesn't have a back swing.

    • @okayest_amateur
      @okayest_amateur Місяць тому

      @@pickleballpick-apart9787 Jack sock indeed has a great forehand and is a great example of a compact forehand stroke. There are individual differences in how large the loop is but his shot still follows the loopy c shape. For example Stakstrud hits with similar power but has a slightly larger loop in his drive. Jack also happens to have very good wrist lag so he does not need a very big "c shape" to make it work. His forehand still moves in a circular shape to create the shot he does. I see many amateur players in my area try to hit this compact stroke by just moving their arm back and moving it forward. This is incorrect. You must still follow the circular loop to create topspin otherwise all your momentum will be lost and you will also lose consistency.

  • @marcbymarckim
    @marcbymarckim Місяць тому

    If these people are 3.0, I'm a 3.5. I struggle with consistency in return of serve the most and do pop up shots but not as frequently as these folks. I can drive consistently over the net to keep opponents away from the kitchen too. These high flying pop ups are a 2.5 level trait, I strongly don't think they're 3.0.

  • @aljerones99
    @aljerones99 Місяць тому

    Observations: The male player in the far end of the court had a good serve. The far end team seemed to be better coordinated than the near end team in terms of approaching the net and keeping their opponents back. The shot accuracy was not very good for most players. I think the back-end male had the best accuracy.
    Not much strategy was applied in winning points. Players largely tried to return the ball and for the large part, they returned it to each other. Dinking was largely absent between the teams, as they spent more time defending pop ups rather than attacking each other after creating opportunities. The gloved player had an unnecessarily big back swing and it affected his balance on numerous occasions.
    Things that I liked: The near court female player tried to progressively work her way to the net to gain control of the game on several occasions. The back court players seemed to make good use of the split step and were usually balanced and ready to respond to balls.
    Looking at their playing, I recall when I used to play like that. I'd recommend that they drill to work on improving technique and learn how to shade as well as focus on paddle handling for ready position based on the behavior of the returning team and their positioning while in play.
    Overall, this was good 3.0 level playing but the gloved player (IMHO) has the most obvious, visible and basic adjustments to make to improve his game. They all have great potential!

    • @danwillard5490
      @danwillard5490 Місяць тому

      But unfortunately, the male player in the far court served illegally most of the time. Both feet were in the air during his serve and/or his feet were outside the line.

    • @aljerones99
      @aljerones99 Місяць тому

      @danwillard5490 ... I don't see any illegal serves on his part. Yes, he does extend upward as he strikes the ball but he is still in contact with the floor and pivots into the court, which is perfectly fine. Look at time stamps 6:10 & 6:25.
      When, in the video, do you see him making illegal serves (most times)?

    • @michaelnoe1195
      @michaelnoe1195 Місяць тому

      @@aljerones99 I believe the 6:14ish serve may be illegal as he may be outside the boundary when serving. I didn't catch it before either. It may actually be against 2 rules... 1) At least one foot must be on the playing surface behind the baseline. 2) Neither of the server's feet May touch the court on or inside the baseline, nor touch outside the imaginary extensions of the sideline or center Line.

    • @danwillard5490
      @danwillard5490 Місяць тому

      @@aljerones99 Not a big deal if you're playing for fun, but in a tournament I would definitely call it out. 6:25, 10:22, 11:36, 12:20, 13:34 both feet are either in the air (so it seems from the camera angle), out of bounds or both when serving.

    • @aljerones99
      @aljerones99 Місяць тому +1

      @danwillard5490 ... I hear you. I get knit-picky with tournament matches but not so much with recreational ones. So, I appreciate your point of view.
      Also, I'm glad you mentioned the camera angle. I always try to bear in mind that we are looking at a 2-D screen recording of a 3-D event. So, it is possible to not always be certain of what we see.

  • @everyonehasadream
    @everyonehasadream Місяць тому +1

    If you want to move up, drill, baby, drill! 🙂

  • @davidwatson7156
    @davidwatson7156 Місяць тому

    How about mistake #2 - receiving partner not prepared prior to service.

  • @dalevoigt8612
    @dalevoigt8612 Місяць тому

    One blatantly overlooked mistake from both female players is their lack of using their core muscles in their swing. Their swings at the ball lack power because they are isolating their arms.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Good point. To generate power. You've got to get your mid-body and legs into it.

    • @paulseminara2483
      @paulseminara2483 Місяць тому

      They actually look like they will hurt themselves more with swings like that

  • @cgong415
    @cgong415 Місяць тому

    It just painful to watch this game, nothing but pop ups :(

  • @paulseminara2483
    @paulseminara2483 Місяць тому +1

    1) These people are NOT 3.0. Maybe a few lucky shots, every once in awhile, but they are 2.5 players. I am not sure what you mean maybe and perhaps you are saying they are not 3.0 YET. But what you write is "What's Holding These Players Back From Being Better Than 3.0?" should say "What's Holding These Players Back From Being 3.0's?"
    2) There is nothing wrong with a player wearing a glove. You do know of racketball gloves, right? People who have particularly sweaty hands will grip the paddle tighter and tighter the more their hand sweats. And their play deteriorates. A good racketball glove is, I contend, better than a bare hand for many people. Maintain a perfect grip, plenty of feel. First time, wait second time I think you are quite wrong. Sorry!

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Racquetball gloves are great. For racquetball!

    • @paulseminara2483
      @paulseminara2483 Місяць тому

      @@pickleballpick-apart9787 Funny. But Like many things in life there is more than one way to do things. What you say allows us to think about it a different way. You say a glove doesn't allow you to feel the ball. Yes there is some part of control that is feel, but if you are relying on feel, it's already too late. Let's look at a sport which involves a LOT more precision and controlled hand contact with a much smaller ball, and a much smaller face making contact. Golf. Or a sport that is much faster than pickleball but involves much more power. Hitting a Baseball. I wonder how they get away with wearing gloves. And yes pro pickleball players don't wear gloves, maybe they have better ways of dealing with hand sweat, or maybe we should have a couple try gloves watch their game go in the toilet.

  • @marcellonenna2983
    @marcellonenna2983 12 днів тому

    This players are never 3.0 players! Max. 2 -2.5. Why you rate them as 3.0 players. You should see that clearly.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  12 днів тому

      I was trying to be nice. I've seen worse players who claim to be 3.0. I'd be willing to bet if you asked the guy with the backwards hat what level he played at, he would probably say 3.5.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  12 днів тому

      I was trying to be nice. I've seen worse players who claim to be 3.0. I'd be willing to bet if you asked the guy with the backwards hat what level he played at, he would probably say 3.5.

  • @Vanessa-pe2xs
    @Vanessa-pe2xs Місяць тому

    Wearing a glove is a personal preference. I don't know why, but you have very strong negative feelings about glove wearing. Some pros do wear a glove, for example Susannah Bar, one of the top female pros on the APP. I have found zero evidence to support the argument that wearing a glove will hinder pickleball play in any way. If you wear a glove consistently, you will get used to the feel and your play will be just fine. I personally think wearing gloves while playing is gross, (your hands get hot and sweaty), but to each their own.

    • @pickleballpick-apart9787
      @pickleballpick-apart9787  Місяць тому

      Barr is a right-handed player. She wears a glove on her left hand. That makes absolutely no sense.

    • @Vanessa-pe2xs
      @Vanessa-pe2xs Місяць тому +1

      Wow, your bias is showing. You say it makes no sense, but she obviously has a reason, her reason may be perfectly valid, and indeed sensible . Pickleball Central has a wide variety of "Pickleball gloves". Why do you think that may be?

    • @Vanessa-pe2xs
      @Vanessa-pe2xs Місяць тому

      ​@pickleballpick-apart9787 I forgot to say Salome Devidze top pro singles player is sponcered by the brand. The One a specific pickleball glove made for pickleball. Check it out.

    • @paulseminara2483
      @paulseminara2483 Місяць тому

      There is nothing wrong with wearing a proper glove. This is simply a case where pickapart is wrong. I am not saying he is always wrong, or he is a lousy player or coach, and I am not insulting him. If a glove screws up your game, don't wear a glove. If a glove improves, wear a glove. No not an oven mit. A thin, grippy sport glove like a racketball or pickleball glove.

    • @Vanessa-pe2xs
      @Vanessa-pe2xs Місяць тому

      ​@@paulseminara2483I love Rory, but he's seems very inflexible in his thinking sometimes. There's a glove made specifically for pickleball called "The One" glove, and it has pro sponsors. We all have our preferences....I personally couldn't even dream of wearing a glove during play...firm no for me.

  • @shornz82
    @shornz82 Місяць тому

    These players are not 3.0