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Lol, some people don't realize that videogame culture is more pervasive than they might think! Other games such as pro league shoutcasters mentioned the drama too. These social feuds are amazing case studies to discuss real world interpersonal dynamics. Some think "it's just a game," but it's a game that heavily focuses on socialization. Wasn't it Plato that said that we can learn more from an hour of play than a year of conversation?
The gift that keeps on giving. "Hes treating himself like he has 1 hp left." Too bad he doesnt know how much he actually has left cos of that stupid macro.
To be fair, that 1 hp layer covering up his bar might only be visible to viewers and not to him. However, it obfuscates an important resource that forces people to spend extra time looking at other streamers' POV to see the "joke." What I say is that if someone is always playing a joke, then they are a joke! Lol
@@BFPhilosophist it's a macro. In simple terms line of text executing a client side command that visually changes your HP display in this situation. But from watching him play it did not affect his judgement
Excellent video. I've been listening to a bunch of the coverage of this drama while I do other stuff and it's very cool to get this type of perspective on something this silly. Really stands out from all the other coverage of it.
0:24 very accurate statement. In 5-man dungeons it's the norm that there are no pre-established "shot callers" or "group leaders". A good analogy would be that of a casual small scale soccer match (e.g. 5vs5) with some buddies. Everyone can say "pass to me", "cover the flank" or "shoot, shoot, shoot". If for example there is one person who's more experienced (club player) that person might be talking more than the rest. You also don't blindly follow shot calls you keep assessing the situation and make your own decisions. If someone asks for a pass but you see that the person is covered (probably not realizing) you wouldn't pass. "Pass" also doesn't simply mean "shoot the ball right on the current position". If you're sprinting towards the goal it could mean pass 3m ahead of him so the ball arives on point after travel time. These are things you do not need specific communications for i.e. "pass 3m ahead of me". A "pass" means different things depending on the situation but everyone understands it. Same applies to WoW. A "run" can mean a lot of things (kite back, retreat to exit, abbandon ship). But people who played WoW for some time (and even beginners like Yamato) understand by intuition what is meant. In general, everyone is expected to be able to think and make decisions for themselves and everyone can participate in the communications (which will vary depending on experience).
It's telegraphic speech, speech that is shortened as it is telegraphed for people already aware of the context. Also, there is argot, where gamers make up their own language for particular plays. Increasing vocabulary is a feature of intellectual maturity because a wider lexicon can objectify reality with more terms to describe plans. If people are supposed to include a terms of service or disclaimer for everything they say to appeal to the dullest possible recipient, then no sharpness will remain. Right?
Is there a particular segment of that game? The game is quite long, and it would be helpful to understand which parts i can try to add insight. Kindly, BP
@@BFPhilosophist i would suggest if you watched the whole game just to get a gist of their synergy. Then the video could be about 20:30(the fight at atakhan) and 28:30(game winning fight) their ingame timer.
Their communication is great, most of my commentary would be explaining why their executive decisions and interpersonal dynamics work. I might have a couple of nitpicks, but they would be extremely scarce.
Run is a declarative statement to MOVE. move to where is not stated until later. "Come back" "this is salvageable" "where are you" and at the very end it is said to "run OUT" only after people are dead is said WHERE to RUN to. Pirate cant call them a shot caller, when there was no real command or order or direction. its just him trying to offset blame. Pirate never calls anyone by their name in the argument. its always YOU THEY THEM (depersonalization). he doesn't look at them like people or even part of his group. he's a snake and selfish, always. now its blindly apparent for everyone to see. He also repeats his manifested lies exactly the same everytime. i know this be cause i transcribed the whole convo and kept getting lost because of his EXACT statements that were only lies. its habitual and he honestly believes what he says when he says it. Blame-shifting and denial of responsibility: This is classic deflection, a hallmark of manipulative or self-serving individuals. Pirate was ready to roach at the FIRST sign of danger, dumps his mana on PURPOSE to claim he doesn't have any mana to help and to keep running. he's not to blame for the pull. he's to blame for quitting on his team and letting 2 characters die. a real G would go in there, knowing he could die, and doesn't care, because the lives of others are more important. You being a psychologist probably know all this better and maybe can use my perspective as well to show the real issue. spotting liars and snakes in real life before they put you in a position of danger. I am not a psychologist, just a hobby for me. I am still making a video on this because as a victim of manipulation for 15 years, i believe it is vital to help others avoid the mistakes and pitfalls. Spotting Liars and Manipulator; Vague language and deflection, Inconsistencies, Self-Vicitmization, Self-serving Actions (with poor justification for them), Lack of empathy.
I think the reason this case is so special is because pirate was a self admitted gaming pro due to his experience with coding. Additionally, he positions himself into a sage role bestowing wisdom and such. However, in this high stakes situation, he didn't bother engaging in helpful dialogue and only cluttered those who were looking for solitions. His no mana claim was ridiculous, and he should try sending some spells instead of saying it doesn't matter. I'm sure if he was in jeopardy, he would be complaining about anyone refusing to use items/spells on his behalf.
@@BFPhilosophist all fantastic points. Thank you for the going into the field you studied, doing the work you do and taking the time to make the video :) have wonderful day!
Agree on all your points but i would add to more since this is a fascinating case of human behaviour. Before the pull he's there wasting time instead of drinking, he has atleast 65% mana left which is enough for the mob group is fighing, but is not optimal, but later blame the team for not looking at his resources before the pull when it's he's responsability. The pull gets made and he follow the call to run, he blink away in order to gain some distance and correctly cast blizzard, the problem is that he makes a mistake, he uses the highest level of it wasting resources. At that point he's done with them, you can clearly see shaking his head before turning the corner, he doesnt wanna aknowledge the mistakes and start with the blame shifting. at this point he's thinking that they dug their own grave and they should crawl out of it. He's instinct is to get out and blame them for the situation they created it (conviniently forgetting that the priest is not to blame, but aslong as he has someone to put beneath him, that's enough for him). But then he gets called out by the rogue, now he realized he's streaming and other people have noticed, and expecially the optics of the situation. He's debating to himself what he should do, that's why he goes back and forth, contradicting the call to run, he's not running away now, so he decided to change the narrative: he has no mana now, he cant help them even if he wanted. The chat point out that he has a mana gem, he mouseover it and realizes it, now he's conflicted, which excuse he's gonna use? He start wasting mana in order to cover the 2nd excuses (which btw, shows that he's really not this savant/genius as he's always trying to portray; he doesnt think people will notice?) now is out so he decided to stick to the second excuses, the mana one because has better optics. As soon as he leave the dungeon he points out that evocation, a mana regen skill, is on cd. After he gets called out he start to throw a series of excuses that contradict each other to see what sticks. You said run i run - i had no mana - i'm the primary enchanter - streamers are out there to get me. When he recount the tales claims that other people uniquely blame him for what happened, which is not true, nobody said that. But i truly beleives thats how he remember the situation, he's ego wont let him be perceived as someone at fault. It's a perfect example of someone who's incapable of taking responsability, manipulating others and the situation in order to be perceived as a good person. He's essentially an insecure kid trapped in an adult body that only cared about how's perceived because he cannot see himself other than as a reflection of others. One glaring example of this behaviour it's how he manipulate his voice in order to make him look "better". Quite a pathetic character. I beleive eventually this thing will happen again and again, he has a long history of such histrionics in other reality and his pride will ultimately be his downfall.
I think random chatter is fine. You're right if you want to lock in, like "no fun allowed, we gotta clear this dungeon" then yeah, everyone should be super focused then, but even though it's hardcore WoW, it's still a video game so it's not THAT serious. Gotta have fun playing the game too, so random chatter happens all the time, which is fine in my opinion. When things went South though, that's when they should have locked in properly, but they all panicked, which is understandable, multiple people made mistakes, and later admitted to those mistakes... Except for one person. One person in the group, despite obviously making mistakes like everyone else, chose to remain high and mighty, with smug and arrogant attitude, hence the source of the drama xD
Panic comes from surprise of expectations. They were in a comfort relax mode and became shocked, triggering amygdala hijack response --fight/flight/freeze/fawn response. I understand games can be thought of as movies with buttons, but that's for casual gamers, this is HARDCORE edition of the game. Many people who play WoW or other games benefit from learning interpersonal socialization skills --aiding maturation, confidence enhancement, and self-development. Kindly, BP
Exactly @apoorhorse..., the diamond going out proves that they knew about the potential danger, autopilot brain and laziness for planning led to multiple deaths. "They just want to have fun" ideational trope is an excuse for overindulgence in noncalculated and unsophisticated thinking.
I agree! It's amazing as a case study. Some might say "it's just a game" but the decisions made from the individual human has an iceberg level of cope and intrapersonal communication within oneself.
really interesting video, and even moreso, your replies in the comments; i would not mind at all to watch longer form videos where you expand on the things you mention and touch on in the comments.
My editor and I decided on cutting the video down a ton, but I will be doing more longform content because many individuals seems to be asking for more explanations or examples for some of the niche words within my vocabulary lexicon. We also seek to cut up some of the long-form into shorts to improve the funneling system.
The class built to help provide utility options declined to participate. Who will want that behavior on their team when utility is needed and the teams' lives might be in his hands. People fear he will again blink around, cast ice barrier, not use mana gem, not use robe active, and then claim not enough mana. Complete farce, polymorph is cheap, nova or rank 1 blizzard could have prevented the non boss mobs from hitting the druid to slow him. "It doesn't matter anyways" is blackpill defeatist diffusion of agency.
@@ka0t1k1 i agree with the part that the tank was lazy in this pull and was the primary reason for the situation. However, players piloting utility classes who decline to perform utility to teams will be dropped from the community.
@@MrSenserus thank you! What else would you like to see? I'll work on improving captions and chapters for easier navigation. A lot to improve upon, and I always like to hear feedback from others!
@ Honestly mate, this is gonna suck to hear because it doesn’t help you but - the reason I liked this video is because I felt it was something you were interested in and had something to add. I’m not really interested in topics I want to hear about if you don’t. Keep doing things you have a personal interest in, if people like it then congratulations you’ve got a thriving UA-cam channel sorted, if not - then unlucky, but you kept being yourself. Make things you find interesting and suck people in with your passion for the topic. If UA-cam has taught us anything, it’s that the topic doesn’t matter. Watchmakers and divers and car cleaners will get millions of views a week as long as they’re passionate enough they make the audience passionate. Make things you’re passionate about, and suck the audience along for the ride.
You didn't mention (or perhaps didn't notice or know) that in WoW every 5 seconds you regenerate a bit of mana if you're not using spells. Pirate kept using spells to prevent mana from regenerating (he used 2 blinks and a frost shield while being completely safe with zero mobs around him). Everyone aside from the priest played badly, this happens all the time in hardcore. Even the "roaching" is very common. All he had to say was "i panicked. i could have used a rank 1 blizzard (which he had in his bar), or a polymorph, or a frost nova... i'll try to do better next time. my bad." and none of this drama would have happened. But he kept doubling down and then started threatening fellow content creators for making content, which ultimately led to him being kicked from the guild.
That's more scaffolding for the same points. I did not want to get too deep into all the WoW mechanics, but there are a lot, such as low ranked spells and such that Pirate could have implemented. However, he imploded in a mental boom to no longer want to help his team. I imagine he would have joined the ogres if he could cast spells against his own team. Possibly not, but a humorous thought to imagine.
Yes the real issue was him not being able to admit fault. Pirate lied about being experienced, which he often does in many games and non-game situations. But everyone would've shrugged it off if the man was able to go, "I fucked up, sorry guys."
In my perspective, apology would not matter because his behavior seemed more than just negligence due to ignorance, it seemed to have intentions for willful negligence and failure to play the game. He has enough gaming and coding experience to know better. He's not a casual who games a little bit with a little bit of knowledge, he streams for money and is actively playing many games constantly.
@@BFPhilosophistyes, this is my take too. I'm not a psychiatrist but I believe Jason intended on righteously punishing his team by actively not aiding when he could. it seems like he relishes having control. he was probably delighted to see that characters ended up dying. yuuuge narcissist vibes
The "go roll a mage" was an "earthquake" cop out from participating in conversations. I consider it a "narclap." Which is when someone does a narcissistic "clap back" to someone that doesnt age very well. I have over 300 terms that helped me label recognized patterns while working with over 10,000 inmates.
for the mana stuff. I honestly think he forgot that he has it. in the vod, just before the priest die, you can see that he hover the cursor to the mana stuff and cast shield to reenter the battle but before he excecute it the priest die.
@@muhammadsalmangalileo945look at the expression on his face. He didn't forget it 😅. He was all smug about it and was just waiting for them to fvck up to left them to die.
Pros have already deduced his gross negligence based on him hovering his mouse over it and the idea that pirate is self-describably not a slouch with over a decade of experience. That's like a hunter forgetting he has a pet, not believable.
@@muhammadsalmangalileo945 focus on his face during the event. he was all smug about while it was happening. he didn't forget. he was just waiting for them to make a major mistake so that he has a good excuse to ditch them to die. Why? Because he didn't like the Rogue. Only reason he needed in expense of the party. Yikes.
so from what i understand it is that pirate panicked because the boss wasn't kiteable because he's immune to his Crowd control and so he slowed everything that could be slowed and ran away and tried to spot one more time what he could do which was both slow down the incoming mobs and possibly kill the small mobs with a powerful blizzard but he cancels due to the boss being too close for comfort and he realizes the boss is immune to CC and at this point he ditches the fight entirely out of fear and not really because he does not have enough mana and he's just fried and want to leave especially now when he's getting blamed for not doing enough before things even end. the other issue here is yamato, yamato starts making calls and try to micro manage the situation but yamato gets frustrated that the biggest thing in his eyes that could help just leaves and so he hones in on pirate more so than trying to actually help with the escape for the rest of his team which arguably gets more people killed than it needed to, and so the follow up is the blame that yamato puts on pirate before everyone who could get out gets out and the aftermath is that pirate tries to defend himself but before he could actually say everything he wanted to yamato started talking and pirate was just still in defensive mode and figured yamato was just gonna pin more blame onto him which made him frustrated enough with the situation that he just left because he saw that yamato wasn't a person he could reason with. and the drama after with the guild master is that yamato and the guild master are fairly close friends more so than pirate, and pirate did give it a chance to let him moderate and so pirate could say his piece, but it was handled poorly and so pirate took that to mean that the guildmaster was playing favorites and so he dips out once again and doesn't want to bother with it. and while all this is happening yamato is going around trying to pin blame on pirate because he could have done more and he hyper focuses on everything pirate did or didn't do still pinning blame on pirate for the death of the people in the party absconding from all responsibility in the situation he had and creating an even bigger deal about the perceived betrayal which ultimately creates a bad vibe around pirate and gets pirate kicked out of the guild. so ultimately had yamato not gone out of his way to dog pile on pirate, things might have not escalated to the point of kicking pirate out of the guild.
The opposition to this comes from sweaty players discussing the particulars of using rank 1 blizzard, cheap mana cost for polymorph, frost nova rooting, mana gem and robe for mana, him burning his mana defensively when he was not in danger imminent, and latching onto the "run" call while ignoring more calls. Reasonable peers would not interpret "run" as "roach out" as shown by the other four players working in tandem to explore options. Mages are specifically equiped with options to lift some of the burden. I don't think yamato denied he, himself, could have played that better, and he could have better articulated the improvement points, such as scouting egress (escape route) for better pathing. Yamato could have CC'd elites instead of wasting his CC on the boss. I discussed other improvement points of the other 3 players in other comments, also.
@@BFPhilosophist yeah but the boss can't be kited by the mage and if there's a boss and the rest of the mobs are behind the boss the mage don't want to be that close to the boss which makes doing anything as a mage a lot more difficult and scarier especially if they are scared shitless from getting one-shot by that boss. so that actually trumps how much mana he actually had anyways or what he could have done. but that's not the issue, the issue is the blame game after coming from someone else who claimed to do something but didn't do anything but just spectate and yell "do something!" more or less and then they went onto paint a target on someone they didn't like both because what they perceived happened in times of crisis and the reaction from the other person of their reaction. in essence yamato was a drama queen and started a witch hunt over a bad event. lots of people roached out before, lots of people have made bad plays, lots of people have said bad stuff someone else didn't like, this is really the only time someone got kicked for it aside from pilav.
Yeah a lot of it just seems like players total inability to see what he saw and honestly ask themselves what they would have done. Everything else is gameplay critique, and they were all bad, except Sara, who I'm not sure about. Even r1 Snupy asspulls multiple packs, and that's fine, it's not his main focus in the game and sometimes you just have a bad day anyway. They said run, he ran, they said fight, he tried to fight and saw the unccable boss running at him, so he ran instead. Anyone who says they would have fought *at the point where he ran instead* is honestly just bad. That boss will kill a mage in one or two hits, is right outside melee range, and no one has any idea who has threat on it or how much because no one, including the tank, ever targets it long enough to find out. You can hindsight it all you like but if you try to fight *in that moment* , knowing only the information he had access to, you're not the expert you see yourself as. So yeah you can criticise the play, you can criticise the avoidance of responsibility for that play after, but if you say roach about anyone except Yamato, you've got plenty of room to improve at the game. There's room to discuss how far he backed off after seeing the boss coming for him, since Snupy picked it up a moment later, but again, the boss is almost on top of him when he turns, he never saw the pickup, and the pickup was never communicated. Yeah they would have been safe if he novad before running but they also would have been safe if Yamato kicked, or if Ozy touched the boss one time, or Snupy didn't pull extra packs etc etc. Still just gameplay critique.
Your point doesn't resolve the problem, the Boss was NOT the focus everyone knows it cant be CC'd. Everyone made mistakes in this but Pirate chose to run off and make snide comments while everyone else was helping each other. Your not being honest in your account, everyone else ATTEMPTED to help each other and that is all that was EXPECTED of Pirate.
@@Spagghetii ok so what did yamato do to help? as i see it being an eye witness is not helping, really the only 3 that tried to actually do something was the priest, the druid and the warrior, the priest and the warrior couldn't have just ran out so they didn't really do anything voluntarily they were just trying to get out alive, the priest does that by healing the tank so tank doesn't die so the priest won't die right after from healing aggro, if priest dies then tanks healing is gone and he's for sure gonna die so tank has to tank to survive to get out, so really snupy the druid was the only one who were doing anything extra trying to off-tank and stuff. sure the mage did do something atleast at the start but did leave them to fend for themselves right after, but what did the rogue do? nada, zip, nil, didn't kill the hyenas to keep the priest alive, didn't try to vanish and sap an elite, really didn't do anything. and sure the mage was kinda being ill mannered about it but it was due to the rogues witch hunting that he felt he needed to "defend" himself which came out badly. but that's no reason to kick them, because ultimately the reason for the kick was "bad vibes" and not because pirate had an ego and not because he roached out. and the bad vibes thing was mainly because yamato didn't like him for what he did and went on a witch hunt.
IMO this is staged drama. The guy doing the pulling was meant to be an expert, but this was just risk for no reason, as groups normally avoid that boss completely on a tribute run
There is a world of possibilities where that is what might be partially or fully happening. Do you believe everyone was "in on it" and had the whole thing scripted? Or do you think it is more likely that WoW players were getting lazy and fell asleep at the wheel for decision-making? What is your "staged drama" speculation based upon?
@ no, not all of them, but from the bad pull, the choosing a boss they did not need, no AOE agro at the start from the tank at all, not even a demo shout, they were aware the boss would agro. That fergus does a charge and knockback on spell casters (pretty sure that's what killed the priest), that room was an awful place to fight them without clearing the adds. There was plenty of animosity between the mage and the rogue and several of them are content monkeys. The guild is for conflict and drama. Did they for sure, I do not know but if they play like that in MC they will be dead in no time
@ I will say if I was a mage in that group, I would have left them to it as well, not worth dying because they have no idea., I mean that's without permadeath, just to save on the repair bill
@BFPhilosophist for sure. If you have been seen all the footage, you found at least 3 things. First thing is overpulling in this instance is on the tank and the druid. 2 thing, once the call to run was shouted, only 3 people complained and full run. I can excuse here the tank because he pulled the mastifs, that apply a slowing debuff. 3 thing is the party didn't plan or showed any knowledge on the run. If you wanna take a psychological approach, watch what happened to the new Snapy characther, tha's the deffinition of choking. When the group goes out, first thing the tank said is a loud "fuck", wich simbolizes who is blaming, that is himself. And Yamato is over agressive since the full run was called. On the ideal scheme of things, you clear the way out first, but It wasn't done. Also you pull when everebody IS on full mana. But it is what it is, and the rogue does nothing except yap around and blame others once the run id called. Any regular player knows that pirate can and should do much, but i don't think in the least is the one to blame for this dissaster. I wanna make sure whe are on the same page on one detail: they are all level 60, or close to, so there is no noob factor
@@mordecay1 Literally all of that is irrelevant. Any mistakes in gameplay can be forgiven, no one is perfect. Pirates mistakes were not that he tried and failed, he chose to not try at all, dumped his mana on purpose and lied about it. He couldn't handle being confronted about it, so he took the coward's way out from the call as well, two times. His incompetence was deliberate, he later admitted he didn't want to help. Case closed.
@@guap752 It's fair to question anyone's credentials because there are so many frauds out there, but why didn't you just ask that question in your original comment? Why open the conversation with such an aggressively pointless comment right off the bat?
This boss is plagued with numerous threats which can cause things to go wrong. It's probably the 3rd worse pull of the dungeon and all people must act like they're walking on eggshells. Even before the release of hardcore majority of groups for a clean run would clear the mages to the left, it's very strange they never did. While I do say the tank takes majority of the blame, pirate should still take some of the blame himself due to their lack of communication, poor CC attempts and inaction during the whole ordeal. He also had 3 sources of mana which he never used. If I broke it up in a non-bias manner it would be something like 50% the tanks fault, 20% miscommunication, 15% pirate and 15% druid. But since pirate refuses to take any blame, they deserve 30%.
Do you think blame should be given per death and/or who caused the bleeding and/or who failed when they had chances to decrease the bleeding? I think everyone involved was choking and pirate was likely mental booming from this not being the first time things go south. I think he expects to have nothing go poorly, but if that's the case, then he should not be playing a game where things can go poorly and that others might depend on his care for the incident. The rogue could have warned others about how to path, the druid could have pathed better, mage could have slowed the trash mobs to save druid life, priest could have done more spacing, the tank could have pulled out further. The asocial or antisocial behaviors from pirate leads others to not trust his judgment, especially when he has touted his abilities and ideas for clutching up in other clips. Join my discord if you want to discuss more!
Reminder: Join my server on discord if you want to discuss further or request record points of oppositional contention. Which "Unusual Encounter" should we discuss next?
🧠
Cant believe its gotten to this level 😂and im here to see it all
Thanks! 🤣😂
I went to store to buy a bread and 50 year old cashier asked me what i think about Pirate software roaching in this classic wow game.👍
Lol, some people don't realize that videogame culture is more pervasive than they might think! Other games such as pro league shoutcasters mentioned the drama too. These social feuds are amazing case studies to discuss real world interpersonal dynamics. Some think "it's just a game," but it's a game that heavily focuses on socialization.
Wasn't it Plato that said that we can learn more from an hour of play than a year of conversation?
The gift that keeps on giving.
"Hes treating himself like he has 1 hp left." Too bad he doesnt know how much he actually has left cos of that stupid macro.
To be fair, that 1 hp layer covering up his bar might only be visible to viewers and not to him. However, it obfuscates an important resource that forces people to spend extra time looking at other streamers' POV to see the "joke." What I say is that if someone is always playing a joke, then they are a joke! Lol
@@BFPhilosophist it's a macro. In simple terms line of text executing a client side command that visually changes your HP display in this situation. But from watching him play it did not affect his judgement
@@BFPhilosophist I've heard a few other OnlyFangs members saying it appears like that on his side as well
I love we have actual professionals dissecting this now hell yes!!!! 🙌
This makes the situation even funnier.
I'll do it again lol 😆
Excellent video. I've been listening to a bunch of the coverage of this drama while I do other stuff and it's very cool to get this type of perspective on something this silly. Really stands out from all the other coverage of it.
0:24 very accurate statement. In 5-man dungeons it's the norm that there are no pre-established "shot callers" or "group leaders". A good analogy would be that of a casual small scale soccer match (e.g. 5vs5) with some buddies. Everyone can say "pass to me", "cover the flank" or "shoot, shoot, shoot". If for example there is one person who's more experienced (club player) that person might be talking more than the rest. You also don't blindly follow shot calls you keep assessing the situation and make your own decisions. If someone asks for a pass but you see that the person is covered (probably not realizing) you wouldn't pass. "Pass" also doesn't simply mean "shoot the ball right on the current position". If you're sprinting towards the goal it could mean pass 3m ahead of him so the ball arives on point after travel time. These are things you do not need specific communications for i.e. "pass 3m ahead of me". A "pass" means different things depending on the situation but everyone understands it.
Same applies to WoW. A "run" can mean a lot of things (kite back, retreat to exit, abbandon ship). But people who played WoW for some time (and even beginners like Yamato) understand by intuition what is meant. In general, everyone is expected to be able to think and make decisions for themselves and everyone can participate in the communications (which will vary depending on experience).
It's telegraphic speech, speech that is shortened as it is telegraphed for people already aware of the context. Also, there is argot, where gamers make up their own language for particular plays. Increasing vocabulary is a feature of intellectual maturity because a wider lexicon can objectify reality with more terms to describe plans.
If people are supposed to include a terms of service or disclaimer for everything they say to appeal to the dullest possible recipient, then no sharpness will remain. Right?
great vid! would like to see you react to the comms of Los Ratones when they played against Verdant
Great suggestion! Him breaking down any league comms would be nice to see
Is there a particular segment of that game? The game is quite long, and it would be helpful to understand which parts i can try to add insight.
Kindly,
BP
@@BFPhilosophist i would suggest if you watched the whole game just to get a gist of their synergy. Then the video could be about 20:30(the fight at atakhan) and 28:30(game winning fight) their ingame timer.
Their communication is great, most of my commentary would be explaining why their executive decisions and interpersonal dynamics work. I might have a couple of nitpicks, but they would be extremely scarce.
@@BFPhilosophist ah i see. Thats interesting. They always seem to have a plan even if they are behind in their games.
Also please do all the ninja looting drama , that’d be awesome
Watching before he false reports it. Great video! Thank you for your insight.
This is the best video so far this year!
@@Banjobobish thank you, it was my first reaction video like this! What other content would you like to see?
you are on the list now.
Put down the fictional paranoia
Run is a declarative statement to MOVE. move to where is not stated until later. "Come back" "this is salvageable" "where are you" and at the very end it is said to "run OUT" only after people are dead is said WHERE to RUN to.
Pirate cant call them a shot caller, when there was no real command or order or direction. its just him trying to offset blame. Pirate never calls anyone by their name in the argument. its always YOU THEY THEM (depersonalization). he doesn't look at them like people or even part of his group. he's a snake and selfish, always. now its blindly apparent for everyone to see. He also repeats his manifested lies exactly the same everytime. i know this be cause i transcribed the whole convo and kept getting lost because of his EXACT statements that were only lies. its habitual and he honestly believes what he says when he says it. Blame-shifting and denial of responsibility: This is classic deflection, a hallmark of manipulative or self-serving individuals.
Pirate was ready to roach at the FIRST sign of danger, dumps his mana on PURPOSE to claim he doesn't have any mana to help and to keep running. he's not to blame for the pull. he's to blame for quitting on his team and letting 2 characters die. a real G would go in there, knowing he could die, and doesn't care, because the lives of others are more important.
You being a psychologist probably know all this better and maybe can use my perspective as well to show the real issue. spotting liars and snakes in real life before they put you in a position of danger. I am not a psychologist, just a hobby for me. I am still making a video on this because as a victim of manipulation for 15 years, i believe it is vital to help others avoid the mistakes and pitfalls.
Spotting Liars and Manipulator; Vague language and deflection, Inconsistencies, Self-Vicitmization, Self-serving Actions (with poor justification for them), Lack of empathy.
I think the reason this case is so special is because pirate was a self admitted gaming pro due to his experience with coding. Additionally, he positions himself into a sage role bestowing wisdom and such. However, in this high stakes situation, he didn't bother engaging in helpful dialogue and only cluttered those who were looking for solitions. His no mana claim was ridiculous, and he should try sending some spells instead of saying it doesn't matter. I'm sure if he was in jeopardy, he would be complaining about anyone refusing to use items/spells on his behalf.
@@BFPhilosophist all fantastic points.
Thank you for the going into the field you studied, doing the work you do and taking the time to make the video :) have wonderful day!
@@BFPhilosophist The shocking reality is he's not as much of a pro in coding as he lets on either.
Agree on all your points but i would add to more since this is a fascinating case of human behaviour.
Before the pull he's there wasting time instead of drinking, he has atleast 65% mana left which is enough for the mob group is fighing, but is not optimal, but later blame the team for not looking at his resources before the pull when it's he's responsability.
The pull gets made and he follow the call to run, he blink away in order to gain some distance and correctly cast blizzard, the problem is that he makes a mistake, he uses the highest level of it wasting resources. At that point he's done with them, you can clearly see shaking his head before turning the corner, he doesnt wanna aknowledge the mistakes and start with the blame shifting. at this point he's thinking that they dug their own grave and they should crawl out of it. He's instinct is to get out and blame them for the situation they created it (conviniently forgetting that the priest is not to blame, but aslong as he has someone to put beneath him, that's enough for him).
But then he gets called out by the rogue, now he realized he's streaming and other people have noticed, and expecially the optics of the situation. He's debating to himself what he should do, that's why he goes back and forth, contradicting the call to run, he's not running away now, so he decided to change the narrative: he has no mana now, he cant help them even if he wanted. The chat point out that he has a mana gem, he mouseover it and realizes it, now he's conflicted, which excuse he's gonna use? He start wasting mana in order to cover the 2nd excuses (which btw, shows that he's really not this savant/genius as he's always trying to portray; he doesnt think people will notice?) now is out so he decided to stick to the second excuses, the mana one because has better optics. As soon as he leave the dungeon he points out that evocation, a mana regen skill, is on cd.
After he gets called out he start to throw a series of excuses that contradict each other to see what sticks.
You said run i run - i had no mana - i'm the primary enchanter - streamers are out there to get me.
When he recount the tales claims that other people uniquely blame him for what happened, which is not true, nobody said that. But i truly beleives thats how he remember the situation, he's ego wont let him be perceived as someone at fault.
It's a perfect example of someone who's incapable of taking responsability, manipulating others and the situation in order to be perceived as a good person.
He's essentially an insecure kid trapped in an adult body that only cared about how's perceived because he cannot see himself other than as a reflection of others. One glaring example of this behaviour it's how he manipulate his voice in order to make him look "better". Quite a pathetic character.
I beleive eventually this thing will happen again and again, he has a long history of such histrionics in other reality and his pride will ultimately be his downfall.
I am not up to speed with UA-cam drama because i have to work, unlike Pirate Software.
I hope you can fix that condition soon; working is so time-consuming!
I think random chatter is fine. You're right if you want to lock in, like "no fun allowed, we gotta clear this dungeon" then yeah, everyone should be super focused then, but even though it's hardcore WoW, it's still a video game so it's not THAT serious. Gotta have fun playing the game too, so random chatter happens all the time, which is fine in my opinion.
When things went South though, that's when they should have locked in properly, but they all panicked, which is understandable, multiple people made mistakes, and later admitted to those mistakes... Except for one person. One person in the group, despite obviously making mistakes like everyone else, chose to remain high and mighty, with smug and arrogant attitude, hence the source of the drama xD
Also, pirate did not seem to have paniced. Seemed like he deliberately just ran and smirked. I did not see any panic in his eyes ever
It was a boss fight and one which was known to cause trouble even before hardcore. It was no time for chatter.
Panic comes from surprise of expectations. They were in a comfort relax mode and became shocked, triggering amygdala hijack response --fight/flight/freeze/fawn response.
I understand games can be thought of as movies with buttons, but that's for casual gamers, this is HARDCORE edition of the game. Many people who play WoW or other games benefit from learning interpersonal socialization skills --aiding maturation, confidence enhancement, and self-development.
Kindly,
BP
Exactly @apoorhorse..., the diamond going out proves that they knew about the potential danger, autopilot brain and laziness for planning led to multiple deaths. "They just want to have fun" ideational trope is an excuse for overindulgence in noncalculated and unsophisticated thinking.
Surprisingly educational
Thank you for your kind words! 😀
Gaming psychology is interesting
I agree! It's amazing as a case study. Some might say "it's just a game" but the decisions made from the individual human has an iceberg level of cope and intrapersonal communication within oneself.
really interesting video, and even moreso, your replies in the comments; i would not mind at all to watch longer form videos where you expand on the things you mention and touch on in the comments.
My editor and I decided on cutting the video down a ton, but I will be doing more longform content because many individuals seems to be asking for more explanations or examples for some of the niche words within my vocabulary lexicon. We also seek to cut up some of the long-form into shorts to improve the funneling system.
The group was familiar with each other, thor was newer and therefore became the scapegoat. Wipe was 100% on the tank and the call to run
The class built to help provide utility options declined to participate. Who will want that behavior on their team when utility is needed and the teams' lives might be in his hands. People fear he will again blink around, cast ice barrier, not use mana gem, not use robe active, and then claim not enough mana. Complete farce, polymorph is cheap, nova or rank 1 blizzard could have prevented the non boss mobs from hitting the druid to slow him. "It doesn't matter anyways" is blackpill defeatist diffusion of agency.
@ i prefer good tanks, but if you want to rely in mages to save you every time good luck
@@ka0t1k1 i agree with the part that the tank was lazy in this pull and was the primary reason for the situation. However, players piloting utility classes who decline to perform utility to teams will be dropped from the community.
Cool video man.
@@MrSenserus thank you! What else would you like to see? I'll work on improving captions and chapters for easier navigation. A lot to improve upon, and I always like to hear feedback from others!
@ Honestly mate, this is gonna suck to hear because it doesn’t help you but - the reason I liked this video is because I felt it was something you were interested in and had something to add. I’m not really interested in topics I want to hear about if you don’t. Keep doing things you have a personal interest in, if people like it then congratulations you’ve got a thriving UA-cam channel sorted, if not - then unlucky, but you kept being yourself. Make things you find interesting and suck people in with your passion for the topic.
If UA-cam has taught us anything, it’s that the topic doesn’t matter. Watchmakers and divers and car cleaners will get millions of views a week as long as they’re passionate enough they make the audience passionate.
Make things you’re passionate about, and suck the audience along for the ride.
Professional video
16:32 a "playbook" of some sort for possible situations.
Yes, protocols of roles for each member is assigned to. For example, rogues should be the lookout for pathing egress.
You didn't mention (or perhaps didn't notice or know) that in WoW every 5 seconds you regenerate a bit of mana if you're not using spells. Pirate kept using spells to prevent mana from regenerating (he used 2 blinks and a frost shield while being completely safe with zero mobs around him).
Everyone aside from the priest played badly, this happens all the time in hardcore. Even the "roaching" is very common. All he had to say was "i panicked. i could have used a rank 1 blizzard (which he had in his bar), or a polymorph, or a frost nova... i'll try to do better next time. my bad." and none of this drama would have happened. But he kept doubling down and then started threatening fellow content creators for making content, which ultimately led to him being kicked from the guild.
That's more scaffolding for the same points. I did not want to get too deep into all the WoW mechanics, but there are a lot, such as low ranked spells and such that Pirate could have implemented. However, he imploded in a mental boom to no longer want to help his team. I imagine he would have joined the ogres if he could cast spells against his own team. Possibly not, but a humorous thought to imagine.
Yes the real issue was him not being able to admit fault. Pirate lied about being experienced, which he often does in many games and non-game situations. But everyone would've shrugged it off if the man was able to go, "I fucked up, sorry guys."
In my perspective, apology would not matter because his behavior seemed more than just negligence due to ignorance, it seemed to have intentions for willful negligence and failure to play the game. He has enough gaming and coding experience to know better. He's not a casual who games a little bit with a little bit of knowledge, he streams for money and is actively playing many games constantly.
@@BFPhilosophist You're right. This is why nobody wants to play WoW with him anymore.
@@BFPhilosophistyes, this is my take too. I'm not a psychiatrist but I believe Jason intended on righteously punishing his team by actively not aiding when he could. it seems like he relishes having control. he was probably delighted to see that characters ended up dying. yuuuge narcissist vibes
The "go roll a mage" was an "earthquake" cop out from participating in conversations. I consider it a "narclap." Which is when someone does a narcissistic "clap back" to someone that doesnt age very well. I have over 300 terms that helped me label recognized patterns while working with over 10,000 inmates.
nice vid, if you'll have time check AoC situation it's on an even higher level of delusion
Are we talking about Cortez? Lol
for the mana stuff. I honestly think he forgot that he has it. in the vod, just before the priest die, you can see that he hover the cursor to the mana stuff and cast shield to reenter the battle but before he excecute it the priest die.
he didnt even need to use mana gem
@@呼吸-e9b then what can he do? Do one basic spell? I don't think it will help.
@@muhammadsalmangalileo945look at the expression on his face. He didn't forget it 😅. He was all smug about it and was just waiting for them to fvck up to left them to die.
Pros have already deduced his gross negligence based on him hovering his mouse over it and the idea that pirate is self-describably not a slouch with over a decade of experience. That's like a hunter forgetting he has a pet, not believable.
@@muhammadsalmangalileo945 focus on his face during the event. he was all smug about while it was happening. he didn't forget. he was just waiting for them to make a major mistake so that he has a good excuse to ditch them to die. Why? Because he didn't like the Rogue. Only reason he needed in expense of the party. Yikes.
wow everyones trying to ride the hype huh
If I cannot beat it, I must join it! Lol
Also, i either die the hero, or live long enough to become the villain haha 😄
Bwahahahahahahahahha
lol
LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so from what i understand it is that pirate panicked because the boss wasn't kiteable because he's immune to his Crowd control and so he slowed everything that could be slowed and ran away and tried to spot one more time what he could do which was both slow down the incoming mobs and possibly kill the small mobs with a powerful blizzard but he cancels due to the boss being too close for comfort and he realizes the boss is immune to CC and at this point he ditches the fight entirely out of fear and not really because he does not have enough mana and he's just fried and want to leave especially now when he's getting blamed for not doing enough before things even end.
the other issue here is yamato, yamato starts making calls and try to micro manage the situation but yamato gets frustrated that the biggest thing in his eyes that could help just leaves and so he hones in on pirate more so than trying to actually help with the escape for the rest of his team which arguably gets more people killed than it needed to, and so the follow up is the blame that yamato puts on pirate before everyone who could get out gets out and the aftermath is that pirate tries to defend himself but before he could actually say everything he wanted to yamato started talking and pirate was just still in defensive mode and figured yamato was just gonna pin more blame onto him which made him frustrated enough with the situation that he just left because he saw that yamato wasn't a person he could reason with.
and the drama after with the guild master is that yamato and the guild master are fairly close friends more so than pirate, and pirate did give it a chance to let him moderate and so pirate could say his piece, but it was handled poorly and so pirate took that to mean that the guildmaster was playing favorites and so he dips out once again and doesn't want to bother with it.
and while all this is happening yamato is going around trying to pin blame on pirate because he could have done more and he hyper focuses on everything pirate did or didn't do still pinning blame on pirate for the death of the people in the party absconding from all responsibility in the situation he had and creating an even bigger deal about the perceived betrayal which ultimately creates a bad vibe around pirate and gets pirate kicked out of the guild.
so ultimately had yamato not gone out of his way to dog pile on pirate, things might have not escalated to the point of kicking pirate out of the guild.
The opposition to this comes from sweaty players discussing the particulars of using rank 1 blizzard, cheap mana cost for polymorph, frost nova rooting, mana gem and robe for mana, him burning his mana defensively when he was not in danger imminent, and latching onto the "run" call while ignoring more calls. Reasonable peers would not interpret "run" as "roach out" as shown by the other four players working in tandem to explore options. Mages are specifically equiped with options to lift some of the burden.
I don't think yamato denied he, himself, could have played that better, and he could have better articulated the improvement points, such as scouting egress (escape route) for better pathing. Yamato could have CC'd elites instead of wasting his CC on the boss. I discussed other improvement points of the other 3 players in other comments, also.
@@BFPhilosophist yeah but the boss can't be kited by the mage and if there's a boss and the rest of the mobs are behind the boss the mage don't want to be that close to the boss which makes doing anything as a mage a lot more difficult and scarier especially if they are scared shitless from getting one-shot by that boss.
so that actually trumps how much mana he actually had anyways or what he could have done.
but that's not the issue, the issue is the blame game after coming from someone else who claimed to do something but didn't do anything but just spectate and yell "do something!" more or less and then they went onto paint a target on someone they didn't like both because what they perceived happened in times of crisis and the reaction from the other person of their reaction.
in essence yamato was a drama queen and started a witch hunt over a bad event.
lots of people roached out before, lots of people have made bad plays, lots of people have said bad stuff someone else didn't like, this is really the only time someone got kicked for it aside from pilav.
Yeah a lot of it just seems like players total inability to see what he saw and honestly ask themselves what they would have done. Everything else is gameplay critique, and they were all bad, except Sara, who I'm not sure about. Even r1 Snupy asspulls multiple packs, and that's fine, it's not his main focus in the game and sometimes you just have a bad day anyway.
They said run, he ran, they said fight, he tried to fight and saw the unccable boss running at him, so he ran instead. Anyone who says they would have fought *at the point where he ran instead* is honestly just bad. That boss will kill a mage in one or two hits, is right outside melee range, and no one has any idea who has threat on it or how much because no one, including the tank, ever targets it long enough to find out. You can hindsight it all you like but if you try to fight *in that moment* , knowing only the information he had access to, you're not the expert you see yourself as. So yeah you can criticise the play, you can criticise the avoidance of responsibility for that play after, but if you say roach about anyone except Yamato, you've got plenty of room to improve at the game. There's room to discuss how far he backed off after seeing the boss coming for him, since Snupy picked it up a moment later, but again, the boss is almost on top of him when he turns, he never saw the pickup, and the pickup was never communicated.
Yeah they would have been safe if he novad before running but they also would have been safe if Yamato kicked, or if Ozy touched the boss one time, or Snupy didn't pull extra packs etc etc. Still just gameplay critique.
Your point doesn't resolve the problem, the Boss was NOT the focus everyone knows it cant be CC'd. Everyone made mistakes in this but Pirate chose to run off and make snide comments while everyone else was helping each other. Your not being honest in your account, everyone else ATTEMPTED to help each other and that is all that was EXPECTED of Pirate.
@@Spagghetii ok so what did yamato do to help? as i see it being an eye witness is not helping, really the only 3 that tried to actually do something was the priest, the druid and the warrior, the priest and the warrior couldn't have just ran out so they didn't really do anything voluntarily they were just trying to get out alive, the priest does that by healing the tank so tank doesn't die so the priest won't die right after from healing aggro, if priest dies then tanks healing is gone and he's for sure gonna die so tank has to tank to survive to get out, so really snupy the druid was the only one who were doing anything extra trying to off-tank and stuff.
sure the mage did do something atleast at the start but did leave them to fend for themselves right after, but what did the rogue do? nada, zip, nil, didn't kill the hyenas to keep the priest alive, didn't try to vanish and sap an elite, really didn't do anything.
and sure the mage was kinda being ill mannered about it but it was due to the rogues witch hunting that he felt he needed to "defend" himself which came out badly.
but that's no reason to kick them, because ultimately the reason for the kick was "bad vibes" and not because pirate had an ego and not because he roached out.
and the bad vibes thing was mainly because yamato didn't like him for what he did and went on a witch hunt.
IMO this is staged drama. The guy doing the pulling was meant to be an expert, but this was just risk for no reason, as groups normally avoid that boss completely on a tribute run
There is a world of possibilities where that is what might be partially or fully happening. Do you believe everyone was "in on it" and had the whole thing scripted? Or do you think it is more likely that WoW players were getting lazy and fell asleep at the wheel for decision-making?
What is your "staged drama" speculation based upon?
Nah Ozy just sucks, pre sure he's died on several toons before hitting 60
@ no, not all of them, but from the bad pull, the choosing a boss they did not need, no AOE agro at the start from the tank at all, not even a demo shout, they were aware the boss would agro. That fergus does a charge and knockback on spell casters (pretty sure that's what killed the priest), that room was an awful place to fight them without clearing the adds. There was plenty of animosity between the mage and the rogue and several of them are content monkeys. The guild is for conflict and drama. Did they for sure, I do not know but if they play like that in MC they will be dead in no time
@ I will say if I was a mage in that group, I would have left them to it as well, not worth dying because they have no idea., I mean that's without permadeath, just to save on the repair bill
The amounts of glazing are off the charts
In what way? Can you increase the description of your position?
@BFPhilosophist for sure.
If you have been seen all the footage, you found at least 3 things.
First thing is overpulling in this instance is on the tank and the druid.
2 thing, once the call to run was shouted, only 3 people complained and full run. I can excuse here the tank because he pulled the mastifs, that apply a slowing debuff.
3 thing is the party didn't plan or showed any knowledge on the run.
If you wanna take a psychological approach, watch what happened to the new Snapy characther, tha's the deffinition of choking.
When the group goes out, first thing the tank said is a loud "fuck", wich simbolizes who is blaming, that is himself.
And Yamato is over agressive since the full run was called.
On the ideal scheme of things, you clear the way out first, but It wasn't done.
Also you pull when everebody IS on full mana.
But it is what it is, and the rogue does nothing except yap around and blame others once the run id called.
Any regular player knows that pirate can and should do much, but i don't think in the least is the one to blame for this dissaster.
I wanna make sure whe are on the same page on one detail: they are all level 60, or close to, so there is no noob factor
@@mordecay1 Literally all of that is irrelevant. Any mistakes in gameplay can be forgiven, no one is perfect. Pirates mistakes were not that he tried and failed, he chose to not try at all, dumped his mana on purpose and lied about it. He couldn't handle being confronted about it, so he took the coward's way out from the call as well, two times. His incompetence was deliberate, he later admitted he didn't want to help. Case closed.
@@mvprime8 all is irrelevant only if you want to blame all in one particular player
this is bullshit isnt it
I'm listening. What explanation do you have?
@@BFPhilosophist what prison did you work in?
@ Sorry if that's too personal, for how many years did you work in the prison system? As a psychologist.
@@guap752not even ten seconds into the video he says how long he's been doing this
@@guap752 It's fair to question anyone's credentials because there are so many frauds out there, but why didn't you just ask that question in your original comment? Why open the conversation with such an aggressively pointless comment right off the bat?
This boss is plagued with numerous threats which can cause things to go wrong. It's probably the 3rd worse pull of the dungeon and all people must act like they're walking on eggshells. Even before the release of hardcore majority of groups for a clean run would clear the mages to the left, it's very strange they never did. While I do say the tank takes majority of the blame, pirate should still take some of the blame himself due to their lack of communication, poor CC attempts and inaction during the whole ordeal. He also had 3 sources of mana which he never used.
If I broke it up in a non-bias manner it would be something like 50% the tanks fault, 20% miscommunication, 15% pirate and 15% druid. But since pirate refuses to take any blame, they deserve 30%.
Do you think blame should be given per death and/or who caused the bleeding and/or who failed when they had chances to decrease the bleeding? I think everyone involved was choking and pirate was likely mental booming from this not being the first time things go south. I think he expects to have nothing go poorly, but if that's the case, then he should not be playing a game where things can go poorly and that others might depend on his care for the incident.
The rogue could have warned others about how to path, the druid could have pathed better, mage could have slowed the trash mobs to save druid life, priest could have done more spacing, the tank could have pulled out further. The asocial or antisocial behaviors from pirate leads others to not trust his judgment, especially when he has touted his abilities and ideas for clutching up in other clips.
Join my discord if you want to discuss more!
I agree, without his ego it would just be a set of bad decisions that everyone contributed to.