The discussion of "train for skilled opponents or not" has been a thing since the days of longsword, seriously. We have manuals that say, "do this to beat an untrained peasant. If a noble tries this same move on you, this is a counter to the common attack. If you're fighting a noble who knows the common counter, fake the common attack and use this uncommon counter-counter."
@@mrsporadicsporkguy5481 There's a saying in fencing and chess (both communities claim the other one stole it from them): An experienced master fears two kinds of opponent, another experienced master on the same level and a complete novice.
In the 70s it was thought that your self defense skills would be against someone who was a street thug and might have some fighting skills, but did not really train. The myth was that someone who trained, especially in a traditional martial art would never initiate a fight. It was against the doctrine of self defense and your teacher (sifu, sensei, sabom) would have your classmates punish you for using your skills offensively (or to start a fight) or do so himself (they were almost exclusively he's in the early 70s). The reality made obvious in an age where so many people now learn fighting skills and especially in fighting gyms versus the esoteric traditional martial arts kwoon, dojo, dojang is that thugs have skills too. Even among Bruce Lee's highly discussed two main fights against the Japanese karateka in Seattle and WONG, Jack Man in Oakland we can see fighting another martial artist was always a concern.
it sounds like JKD has fallen into what Bruce warned you about. Becoming so wrapped up in the style's do's and don'ts that you are no longer free flowing
Exactly :'( I have never even practiced JKD but this makes me sad anyways, most JKD that go out there usually just make a fool of themselves, they make JKD look just like every other BS martial art
I love how you guys don't style shame and are just trying to do problem solving. I wish that I could find some guys to just brainstorm like this with. This kind of collaboration is how my style (Kajukenbo) was formed.
I've used this technique before in sparring. Mike's interpretation is spot on for me. If you hit people hard to the body a few times they will start blocking. And you can still do the pac sao if they block correctly with the elbow down, you just have to modify it a bit and be used to that position. I've also never seen this as a leg punch, always a body shot. I assume originally this probably was a groin shot? And it must have diverged in different training groups.
Leg punch or tapping the leg I see in MMA, when the option of a wrestling shot is there. Just something to keep the opponent guessing. The old "slap the lead leg while following up with the winging overhand" is a staple.
@@MrDioXIII ooo I do like that. Depending on their response you may actually get them to lower their hand for that if they're trying to clear the grip or shoot for an underhook. Haven't fought a lot of wrestlers but that could be interesting.
@@brucehuddler7518 This. In my JKD class, we can have a trapping session and then immediately throw on gloves and start boxing. We try to use the "trapping" we just learned to open the gate for an attack. With gloves on, and with your partner throwing fast jabs / crosses, your arms aren't "sticking" enough to play this drill, but it simply allows another tool to open them for a hit.
I'm a fellow JKD practitioner, started 2019. I'm still new in the game. However, I completely agree that a lot of people killed the art of JKD or the whole concept. Trying to show off unrealistic moves. I do like hearing everyones opinion and the break down of the drill and how it can possibly apply in a real life scenario!
the reference point mimics a collision thus a failed attack which should trigger a response. the goal should always be hitting the main targets and not seek a collision and then follow up with trapping. that's a thing many people get wrong. there is so much wrong with those drills like not learning the right energetics, pressure and follow ups. the more you understand how to fence with hand and feet and get good at it the better you are at changing attack lines and not get entangled with complex trapping patterns. A lot of those drills dan taught because bruce had him teach them in classes at a point in time when bruce couldn't care less if people get good or not.
The hand low to protect makes more sense if you can't block with a low elbow on something like a stab with a knife. Wing chun was made with butterfly swords in mind.
I teach the Ping Choy Gua Choy as starting with a Low Jab to the Belly, not the leg. It draws the low block response all the time. If they don't block, you hit him hard to the gut or groin. If they low block, you trap and backfist. This is part of PIA - Progressive Indirect Attack. Remember- hit the gut or groin. That way, if they don't respond, they still get hit.
This drill does not require a low block, it's a set up to allow you to enter into trapping range. You just want them to block (or even freeze) in some way in order for you to gain an attachment. Miss-matched lead. Do a loose snappy back-fist to the gonads to lop sao to gua choi. In a matched lead, low jab to the guts or a lead hand slap to the fore mentioned gonads, as soon as they drop their hand or their elbow to block, spring up and forwards with a pak sao to gua choi.
JKD has a place in self defense. What makes sense and what can transition well in the the street . In a sparring session depends on the practitioner. I mean if a good leg fighter waits and gauges the JKD fighter . The trapping goes right out the window. Of course it’s range of engagement. From Long , medium and close range .
Trapping is used to eliminate opponents barrier when your opponent provides one if he dont then you have no need to trap. Also it obviously works the other way round if the jkd fight gauges the kicker which is likely because that's what they are trained to do his kicks will go out the window
American karate is a step away from Japanese Karate which is a step away from Okinawan karate which is like a step away from certain Chinese martial art styles and the bubishi. There are definately set in stone bunkai, you can find a lot of them in the Bubishi, but I can imagine not a lot of that is taught in an American style karate school as its not really taught even in a Shotokan school.
Interesting that I was browsing the comments for something similar before I commented about how goju ryu principles might clarify some of this, then I saw your screen name 👍
EXCELLENT VIDEO GUYS! This is absolutely the foundation for the “how do I make this work” mind set. Because at some point all martial arts techniques that exist right now, worked, at some point in the distant past, because if they didn’t work, good chance the person trying to use them died on the battlefield. But modern commercial martial arts have been (in some instances) “sterilized” but this is the way to think about how to bring them back to life!
If you want to understand trapping and trapping sequences, look at Pekiti Tirsia. You will find much of the trapping techniques in Kali and kung fu and such are about trapping against weapons, usually when you are also armed. Consider that strike to the leg with a weapon like a kerambit or deerhorn knives or many other weapons that use that technique to target the femoral artery. It's a target favoured by people who use an unorthodox grip for their knife combatives because it is more often than not a kill shot. A lot of what is used now is a misunderstanding of what techniques are designed to counter empty hand and what techniques are designed to counter weapons targeting your most vulnerable parts. Conversely it's also flow drill. It's to teach you a full range of motion and to be comfortable with it.
Finally someone who understands that historically many of these movements involved the use of a weapon. You are 100% correct this movement to the leg was to rip the femoral artery with a blade.
Training to fight unskilled opponents has a long history in martial arts. I have a medieval Italian fencing manuscript where most of the techniques discussed are for things like sword on sword duels or fighting someone in armor but a few look a lot like "this is how to fight a poorly trained peasant conscript armed with a spear" that wouldn't work against a professional spearman and one looks like how to fight on horseback against a group of peasants armed with whatever clubs and staves they could find because they're protesting taxes or something.
The pin choi is a feint to draw the lead block, then avoid the block, trap the arm and hit high... it's not meant to be a punch to the leg... pin choi "means" horizontal punch so there's supposed to be a lowered elevation with the feint
In emptiness ..we hit .. at my school we have always used the the drill in order to draw the low lead attachment reference point , whether we are attacking with the lead or rear shot.. interesting vid.
Given a large part of JKD has a Wing Chun basis, I could also see the initial movement of the JKD/WC practioner being a defense against some of the "unorthodox" strikes from other styles of kung fu that were around in the same region as Wing Chun was developed. Hung Gar, for instance, has a reputation for sometimes striking from extra low stances, so a low straight punch using a vertical-fist or tiger claw could very well target the groin or lower belly of an opponent in a taller stance. The Wing Chun practitioner would need to deflect this before trapping and counter-attacking.
Bruce Lee never meant for JKD to become what it has become, which is a series of dogmatic and prearranged movements. The concept was to explore and grow, the next logical evolution would have been MMA. Even after he clearly stated this, people still go back to training the principles he taught back in '69. I'm pretty sure if he was alive today, JKD would have been something completely different today as he may have discarded much of the earlier principles. JKD was a concept, a process not a system or an end in itself.
I actually don't believe he would have discarded the original principles because they all have a place, but I do think he would add more to them and develop it even more which is what I do by studying other things along side it.
When George Foreman was younger before his comeback he used wing chun trapping. Actually in his comeback match against Michael Moorer he would pull down Michael’s left hand down so he could land his right hand. He would also push his opponents off of him which is technically illegal in boxing. Pushing your opponent is actually very effective because it offsets your opponent’s balance.
At 2:00 watch the older 45 year old George Foreman use his left hand to push Michael Moorer’s left hand down. Then George Foreman launches 🚀 his right hand to end the fight against Michael Moorer. ua-cam.com/video/AIyGIm9hm7A/v-deo.html ☝🏼
I 100% agree with you guys on the romantization of JKD From my experience in competing in MMA, teaching Self Defense and doing security. Trapping works great from grappling/trapping distance. When mixed with modern understanding. Evolution seems to be resistant and looked down upon in the martial arts world. In my opinion Bruce Lee would be upset that his style of fighting has become a "Franchised Style of Fighting".
This discussion ends in a very important point. Aliveness and deadness of training is a spectrum that all good training moves through. Its probably something that fluctuates throughout the life of entire 'styles' of fighting. If it was alive all the time, we'd be so bruised and battered that we'd hate training. If it is dead and theoretical all the time, the bruising and beating will come when we are facing the uncertainty of a dynamic living thinking person instead of a cooperative training partner. Interestingly one could make the point that shadowboxing vs sparring or kata vs kumite is kinda the deadness vs aliveness paradigm put into training. You train alone and then with someone else and the reality of fighting lies somewhere in the middle: not just about what you do and not just about what the opponent will do, but instead the combination of both.
It makes me think the attacker is creating a groin attack feint. The defender goes for it, thus creating the trap opportunity. You have to remember that Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do for actual fighting (basically street fighting), and he even said that punching / kicking the groin, pulling hair, and biting are all valid moves.
"Bunkai can be whatever you want it to be" feels like a deeply American answer, haha. I will say that McDojoLife and Icey Mike's interpretations are right on. This is conceivably both offensive and defensive. You only need that hand low, for any # of reasons, for you to grab/check and pop up a strike - it's contextual. If offensive, they have to fear the initial strike (i.e. they need to be conditioned to respond to it) or alternately rely on either a) untrained instinct or b) an instinct rooted in using the front hand for blocks/parries. The b) option is less common now, but I think it's important to remember that Lee spent time working with folks that had "traditional" (read: actually modern, but nvmd that) backgrounds that were taught to do just that. He also spent some substantive time fighting untrained opponents in scraps as a teenager (both when he was untrained and later after picking up wing chun). That kind of exp shapes your training. I think IceyMike is also right that we should train for both untrained fighters *and* folks that might know a thing or two. With the rise of popularity of combat sports like MMA, the likelihood that an attacker knows something (or at least attempts to imitate what they've seen) is statistically relevant. Great convo!
The difference between competition and self defense. 1 has some set of rules involved and the goal is to get your had raised. Self defense is 1st and for most walking away and leave. You don't know if said person has a gun or knife. It's if you beat this person down most of the time it's bad for you. But remember the moment they start going you try to end it quick and brutal. Break and maim if need be. Also trapping look at Tony fergason has used the whole time he has fought
Well, anything that does not work in a competition will very likely not work in real self-defence situation either. If you fight to win, you fight to end the fight while trying to stay safe from your opponent attacks. If you cannot win in competition, you definitely have a lesser chance of winning in the streets. The rules bias is another thing, people who never trained with professionals use to differentiate themselves - do you really think elbowing someone very precisely on chin or brow is that different than targeting neck, or other "forbidden" areas in competition?
@@TenemdaMc except when you're training for competition, you're training for a set a rules and condition your muscles to react within those rules.Muscle memory is a thing
I will speak in favor of the humble low block. This technique is designed to damage the incoming arm. It won't work if you/he are wearing gloves. It will fail the *second* time you use it against a trained opponent, because he will see your first reaction, bait you low, and then hit high. But in a street fight there is not going to be a second time--you hopefully finish the fight by then.
Crazy how different JKD schools can be. My daughter and son attend a school that calls itself JKD due to its founder bringing JKD to Columbus in 1974 but after all that time they basically teach a library of mostly Japanese styles which the instructor has high rank in including Jeet Kune Do, Bando, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Judo, and Iaido. Focus is on fundamentals and athleticism. The students spar regularly with pads and are expected to choose the (often overlapping) techniques that work best for them.
Here is my theory about the concept of the combo( not saying will work). TLDR: Aim for the groin to force opponet to block, which gives you the change to grab the blocking arm to cause imbalance /control of your opponent, and then you punch to the head. In CMA it is very often to see the "redudant grabbing/pressing" followed by blocking, instead of a counter punch immediately. It has to do with the concept in CMA training that you have no idea if the opponent has a knife or not thus one more controlling step has to be added to the training combo. It may sound stupid since controlling one''s forearm is really hard but in a life and death situation it might give one a chance to survive. Now here comes the tricking part: If I assume my opponet had a knife, why'd I punch downward which give my opponent a good chance to cut my hand? It might be like what Mike said that you are the defensive one and the very first move is blocking, or ...baiting? You might be able to trace the combo from Wing Chun if there is simlilar technique and explanation about the combo. I perosnally knows nothing about Wing Chun or JKD
This was a cool video and discussion. I didnt go through all 350+ comments so sorry if this has been mentioned/discussed already. I can't speak for JKD specifically but it seems to draw heavily from wing chun and kung fu. Karate, at least the Okinawan styles, also derive from kung fu, chuan fa, and other Chinese arts so there is a lot of overlap in principles of limb management and passing arms back and forth. In goju ryu, there is a lot of passing limbs, pinning, crossing and checking the arms. It is sometimes referred to as stand up grappling. In reference to the down block they are talking about, karate uses the terms "uke" and "barai" to describe blocking motions. These terms actually mean "recieve" and "sweep" respectively, so when you look at it in that context, goju teaches to sweep the limb down, or redirect it. Often people think a down block is to block something down low, like a kick or leg punch, but really the gedan barai, low sweeping block, can effectively redirect anything in the middle range downward towards the hip. So using this context, a low sweeping block can be used to push an attack downward, even checking it against their body if you can, and then climb up the back of the arm like he is showing in the video. This is part of the misunderstanding of karate blocks. The Japanese and many American styles have lengthened the range to the striking range, but the original Okinawan styles were often developed for use within arms length or even clinch range to pass, tie up, crank, wrench, lock or break joints, or close distance for a takedown. Many of the bunkai of goju ryu involve checking the limbs and then body checking or crashing through the ranges to takedown. I love the discussions around these techniques and people finding the practicality that has been lost due to the old styles being sportified.
The way you blocked at 7:00 is how I was taught to implement it rather than putting the arm down too much. Also a lot of people judge techniques and different positions by saying "nobody fights like this" but they don't understand the idea behind why you do it in the first place.
The point about people who don't know much about fighting and doing "stupid" stuff is pretty valid. In order to become a master in medieval germany you had to fight a rookie , a drunk guy who has some experience and a master.
Best application (bunkai) of those blocks I’ve ever seen was grip breaks. Wrestlers and other grapplers do it a lot. Makes sense: opponent grabs you and you don’t train grappling? Break the grip and make ‘em pay!
I love the youtube martial arts sphere. Hope it makes wing chun great again. Also Tell them to get a historical rapier finally. please god. thanks for the vid :)
Yall are just doing a whole infinity war of crossovers. I'm enjoying it. I can't say I've done extensive jkd training, but I've definitely taken classes. And I haven't really seen much of that low block for low punches. Usually for body kicks. But I have to agree with the mike about being offensive, to create the reaction you want, to do the move you want...set it up. I've learned to apply basic trapping against a jab, but I have to make them wana jab me and time their strike. Though I've kinda exchanged my wingchun/jkd trapping for the escrima version. And I have used it in sparring. Though it has been a while since I've sparred.
It's a sensitivity drill, you see trapping in boxing. Someone slaps or pulls a hand down from the face then use the energy to hook or uppercut the face. In Grappling you pin the arm then punch the face or set up a sub. It's a trap.
Reallt fun to watch. Also, I don't know if this counts but George St. Pierre would often feint the jab ( I assume he established it as a threat first ), then when the opponent tried to parry it, he would PARRY that parry and then jab. So: ( Establish jab ) 1. Feint jab and make opponent try to parry. 2. Parry the parry and then jab in the now open spot.
A Squirrel Grip will definitely get a hand down reaction. That lower block is a good defence for that, lower covering hand covers or grabs their wrist and the blocking hand simply knocks it away or strikes vulnerable spots on the arm.
Funny that nobody mentioned the first attack maybe being about programming an idea into your opponent. Stiff jab somebody in the stomach or leg, and they are very likely to respond in kind, so then you'd have your opponent lowering their arm for you to counter with this trapping combo.
Counter to no one fights with a wrist connection...Jones blasted Cormier a dozen times in one of their fights doing this exact thing. A key to fighting, but especially trap fighting, is psychology. You don't just work on skills to respond to what you're opponent does, that's a LOT of work and relies in precise timing and fight IQ that most people will never be able to properly develop, but you work on understanding how people will response to stimuli and feed them the stimuli that will get the response you want to land the technique you want. In grappling I'm not trying to get a straight arm bar from guard, I'm threatening the straight arm bar to get a specific defense against the technique in feeding them. If they reasons wrong, hey I get the arm bar. If they respond correctly I go down a path of two or three other techniques causing the defenses I want or resounding with attacks in writing for, leaving them open to the technique I was going for from the beginning.
If you are really interested in JKD and why everyone drifted away from the system (yea its a system/phylosophy, rather than art or style), you gotta check out mr Tommy Carruthers. He kept it nearest to the source cause all his friends are or were Bruce's students. Give it a look, he will amaze you. Good video, the most important thing is to have fun, cause if you dont enjoy what you are doing then its in vain.
The intent must be there. You probably need to strike them in the solar plex, groin or the liver in order for you to get them to react. If they don't block then they are hit. Rob and icy mike make a good point on how to get that technique going. That jab low must create some damage in order for it to work.
UFC fighters who use concepts from JKD and fight mostly, powerside forward: Anderson Silva right handed southpaw, Jon Jones left handed orthodox, Israel Adesanya ambidextrous born left handed fights orthodox. Aside from the fact they either talk about it, or especially in the case of Silva, outright say they use it; if you study the concepts an techniques, you can tell what they use from it (kneestomps, stance, specific distance management, mostly vertical fist, drawing, feinting, intercepting/ countering game, etc). Problem is it's just not supposed to be a specific fighting style; instead it's concepts that you can, take what ones you find useful and discard what you don't. P.s. Bonus powerside forward fighters: GSP is a left handed orthodox and said it was his "secret weapon", Nick and Nate Diaz-right handed, Colby Covington-right leaning and right handed, Cyril Gane-right handed, Dustin Porier-right handed. Wonderboy- also right handed and often fights powerside forward. Yes most of them fight very well in both stances and switch, but that's the point in powerside forward........years....YEARS! I've been trying to just get you people to look at what Lee originally said, for yourselves; not what most JKD here on UA-cam has twisted it into
A scale is learned to create muscle memory. A person then takes that to learn to play or write a song. Drills are the same. Once the movements are learned the sequence can be altered for the situation and person. As hard2hurt already said some make more sense with a weapon. It is safer to work empty hand and some cultures were disarmed but kept the weapons movement for that "if I get my hands on a weapon again..." situation. For instance, that low block he asked for looks weird until a bladed spear like a halberd is in hand and you see that tucks the bow part under the arm and against the body while the extended arm would place the bladed end between the thigh and shin guard on armor to attack the exposed joint area of the knee. Backhands to the side of the head or neck seem ineffective until the blunt end of a bludgeon or blade handle is involved. Context of movement is everything.
This is a beginner drill to help develop flowing from trapping range into boxing range into kicking range. You never got past the trapping part of the drill. The point where the arms meet in trapping range is just a reference point to help the beginner see how to enter into trapping range. It usually doesn’t exist in real fighting but beginning trappers have to start somewhere. More advanced trapping does away with the reference points. The point of trapping is not to trap but to hit. On the way to hitting you encounter an obstruction and you clear the obstruction with a trap. The reference point that you spent 10 minutes debating is just an artificial obstruction used for training beginners.
I trained with JKD guys who were great all-around fighters, and I never saw them pull off a trap in the way it's often trained. I think they saw it as mostly attribute training. You can hand trap guys of course, but it doesn't work where your arms meet in the air and you roll and trap. It's more about grabbing hands using a long guard, getting those hands out of the way, and throwing a punch from there. Happens all the time in MMA. Usman did it to Masvidal when he KO'd him.
IMO JKD is more of a philosophy that is applied to practical techniques you've already acquired instead of its own fighting style. For example, the Five Ways of Attack is very applicable to both boxing and MMA, but with very different executions.
The strike that the jkd practitioner was striking toward the leg can be executed with a punch to the body or a grab toward the wrist.👍 I've done private lessons of jkd and wing chun it's a very popular drill.
Yeah, the ping choy gua choy series is about building attributes. And I have had people bite that way with a low punch so long as you are really selling it. But they don’t always. That’s the live part. Feeling them out. Seeing how they will react. If they react that way, then you have a tool and when they don’t, use a different tool. The arms crossed thing is a reference point. If they block or your arms get into that position you can go for a trap. You train first from the reference, where it’s dead, then start training it more active and live while still knowing what’s happening (I’m gonna punch. You are gonna block. We are gonna do this at live speed and you aren’t going to leave your arm out there like a dummy, I’m going to go for the trap). And you work it live in sparring. It’s not what you train, it’s how you train it. Beginner is dead, by the time you get a lot of experience, you should be working it live.
I guess because I don’t get into street fights I’ve never really seriously considered the fact that most of my training has been preparing me to fight other people with similar training. I’ve kind of just implicitly had this mentality of if they have no training it’s not gonna matter because I’ll win.
As a JKD instructor, I totally get your point. And plenty of people miss the attribute building side vs the combat application is side... and the probably vs the possibly. There is also a difference people's reactions in this day and age. Dan Inosanto would say that a side kick in the 60s & 70s worked like magic but you were considered a dirty fighter. I also know from experience that you could rear naked choke just about anyone in the 80s & early 90s and they had no clue what was about to happen. 😉
It looks like there might be another application for this defending an arm drag but it would be more like stripping the hand and going immediately on the offensive. Icy Mike had a video about people training to stop after every exchange, like you do your technique then stop and reset, so this could maybe be incorporated as a way to encourage people to overcome that and continue the fight, which I guess would mean turning it into a flow drill? I know sweet FA about JKD though so I'm probably talking crap, that just seems like a possible alternative to me.
The type of attack you describe corresponds to a knife attack. After the opponent defending ,you use the other hand and continue attacks up to the neck with an open hand and with the hand of the knife. You can see these defenses in mixed krav maga (a combat method I developed very similar to mma but with self-defense) and in Filipino combat called Arnisc
Patrick McCarthy (A very well respected Karate man, probably the greatest karate scholar in the western world) advocates striking the groin area as a distraction, because it's one of the surest way to get a reaction. I'm curious if even people with martial arts training would drop their hands under those circumstances.
Guys the jkd thing would make more sense if you’re doing groin shots, then you might get a desired reaction, you forgot jkd is about dirty fighting. Start adding groin shots in your sparring, then it will work!
I'm a Ted Wong lineage JKD guy and we have never done drills like this, and do very little trapping. Mainly we do a lot of padwork, working techniques, and sparring. Doing so really helps to avoid the kind of issues pointed out in this video. It's not so "if he does.... You do..." It's just training the tools that we then have the freedom to deploy however.
In my choy lee fut system we have a very similar drill. We use the chap choy, the punch with the middle knuckles, for soft parts of the body. The balls/dick, below the ribs (on a side of the body), the neck or just below the sternum (where your stomach begins, sort of). Like Mike said, you go for a dick punch or a body shot, then go up if you get blocked.
The one time I've seen punching the thigh work was when Benson Henderson do it to Nate Diaz a few time. He punched his thigh, feinted down and then went over with an overhand that put Nate on his ass.
Perhaps instead of the intial 'punch' to the leg it's intended as a grab instead? Someone initiating a takedown perhaps or responding to you (the JKD practioner) throwing a kick they try to grab your leg?
Sifu in my humble opinion in Bruce Lee style 5 ways to attack this is an attacked by draw (ABD) technique. The application of Ping Choi Da is to draw a reaction from the adversary (similar to garbage hand). Your response would be based on muscle memory. Remember, “Be Like Water”! Bruce Lee use a similar technique in Return of the Dragon. He started out Highlow and then he went low-high.
Commenting for the algorithm! Great video. I'm little more than a fairweather martial artist at best but I've often wondered what Lee would have made of MMA and other styles. I'd wager he'd have been interested in cherry picking things that worked for him. Anyway great vid and nice to see a super-group of UA-cam Martial Artists shooting the sh*t!
Maybe that drill is done with historical Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD lessons, but I doubt many would really use that in JKD sparring nowadays. Moreover, I'm afraid that many people idolizing Sijo Bruce Lee's moves from the films, are unlikely certified instructors under the Guro Inosanto lineage, but probably just poseurs.
Bruce Lee said on the street not to punch someone’s legs and not to try to kick high… in his day karate was very popular so this was a setup jab to the body the karate guy blocks low and you go high
Hit when you can. Trap if you must. JKD is predicated on hitting. If all your punches land you are having a good day! When your sparing partner/opponent blocks an attack that is when you trap and then resume hitting.
The problem I see with the trapping styles is that with the evolution of martial arts, people who train just dont fight in a way conducive to "sticky hands" or trapping. Boxing I think has especially changed the way hands are used in fighting now. I know my instructors have shown me really awesome flow drills, and they look so cool! They seem to work! However you go to try them in a spar session... and its very awkward, they are hard to use and typically you move on to a more simple tactic. What do you think? I know I will still teach some trap fighting drills like this one you are showing just for hand eye coordination, and to show students how fighting has evolved.
You hit it on the head... they look cool, but are awkward to try to apply against a non-compliant opponent. In stress and chaos, the brain falls back on simpler movements.
Some people, myself included, parry or try to catch the thigh kicks. If I were to try to punch their thigh, they will think it's stupid, unless like Mike said, you hurt them and make them flinch on the next hit. But most ppl check the kick with a knee, so it's really a case by case scenario anyways. I'll call MMA the art of "actual fighting", traditional martial arts are tools to apply to "actual fighting" most people apply traditional martial arts to traditional martial arts, instead of "actual fighting". Then they are surprised when it fails them. 🙏❤️ Much love to you and the guys!
not being a troll, but a practitioner of the art. chop chow is not to the leg. it is to the floating rib. And you strike it 5 or 6 times until it hurts so much that they want to block it. then you do the gwop chow with the pock to come in close to start the trapping. then you use chi sow to maneuver the opponent into the position that you want. btw, a good pock should make your opponent think you broke their ribs.
These collaboration videos are great. I have a question for seth would mixing the throws and trips of some styles of karate mix well with kickboxing full contact styles?
Lots of people always use a very high standard of viewpoint when being introduced to a technique. Let’s just say, the technique itself has no good or bad, just the one that wields it. And what makes the difference is the experience. And techniques are not a piece of accessories, like a hat, pair of shoes or sunglasses you put them on when you need it, it’s not that easy due to our human body and mind-you need to really use it to the point that you want to throw up in order for it to show its effectiveness. Which means besides the drill of the technique, one needs to intergrade it into sparring or any none-rehearing training, until it becomes an instinct when triggered. Only then one can tell if the technique works or not for himself only.
Hello I have been doing research on JKD and self studying JKD, It helps understand yourself, Understand your environment and how your opponent may perform, practice only techniques and not forms nor katas actually help with attack speed, I practice the Straight Lead punch a lot and from what I remember it drastically increase my punching speed & helped understand intercepting, it is efficient, not many people understand it, JKD is incomplete, you can up your own concept of techniques but add forms but don't over add techniques, you must add less but still effective techniques, the more I learn through research and training, the more I understand about Bruce Lee's JKD concept, and how it used
@hard2hurt, I noticed you had a knee wobble (valgus collapse) as you stood up -- wanted to check this is something you are aware of (and potentially rehabbing)? Always good to deal with a movement pattern issue sooner rather than later (when it has caused damage).
One of the things Ramsey Dewey says about wing Chun is that it really is only good against wing Chun. I don't agree with that sentiment, and I think we've seen people be relatively successful at practical wing Chun, but this series is probably one where it has some merit. I don't think many styles would block a low punch like that. An untrained fighter or a fellow JKD/wing Chun practitioner probably would. This series in particular seems very dependent on your opponent also practicing center line defense.
It is a grip strip when it's the big move and you use both hands, it's a parry/block when it's one handed. In all honestly Seth is not that versed at traditional styles xd
Hi guys.. I appreciate the video! Thanks! Try this. The next time you bridge. Use a GAURD HAND and a BUI GEE finger jab. Wedge the hand with a flat cover and then punch over it. This is fencing with the hands. We use BUI SAO exclusively for entries kk guys. Ping choy gua choy is a low level practice thing. In reality. We reach in (right hand) left hand goes inside my righthand to the throat. Hen the right hand can punch. We fence with the heads. Strike strike strike. But always cover cross and reach in for a reaction or contact. Stop by my site n see some stuff. I put up descriptions too to read if you click the little bubbles. Deflections and power hits. Fabulous guys! But ya, PING CHOY GUA CHOY is an old school practice set. In street applications we use finger jab to open up punches ok. That’s true real JKD. Ty
Tony Ferguson attempted that leg punch thing lots of times on Justin Gaethje. It did absolutely nothing, but now I know it's a real thing. Interesting. I do it every now and then to mess with people in sparring.
I didn't think of it at the time but if you had a knife in that hand i bet they'd throw that hand down.
Oh 100% - that's definitely gonna cause that reaction
That's what I was thinking as well. Makes sense with the knife/weapon, additionally the weapon hand is also delivering the last strike
Your as cold as ice! Pam pam pam
Your willing to sacrifice our love!
That’s what I was thinking
That's when you start looking a lot like Filipino martial arts, for sure.
The discussion of "train for skilled opponents or not" has been a thing since the days of longsword, seriously. We have manuals that say, "do this to beat an untrained peasant. If a noble tries this same move on you, this is a counter to the common attack. If you're fighting a noble who knows the common counter, fake the common attack and use this uncommon counter-counter."
Ha, my out-smarting has out-smarted your out-smarting.
The irony of have to train to fight an unskilled yet unpredictable peasant
those are awesome quotes . thnx for sharing
@@mrsporadicsporkguy5481 There's a saying in fencing and chess (both communities claim the other one stole it from them): An experienced master fears two kinds of opponent, another experienced master on the same level and a complete novice.
In the 70s it was thought that your self defense skills would be against someone who was a street thug and might have some fighting skills, but did not really train. The myth was that someone who trained, especially in a traditional martial art would never initiate a fight. It was against the doctrine of self defense and your teacher (sifu, sensei, sabom) would have your classmates punish you for using your skills offensively (or to start a fight) or do so himself (they were almost exclusively he's in the early 70s). The reality made obvious in an age where so many people now learn fighting skills and especially in fighting gyms versus the esoteric traditional martial arts kwoon, dojo, dojang is that thugs have skills too. Even among Bruce Lee's highly discussed two main fights against the Japanese karateka in Seattle and WONG, Jack Man in Oakland we can see fighting another martial artist was always a concern.
I made up karate
It's good Karate though
Are you from Okinawa? :D
yes, I invite you to say Jesse's catchphrase :D
@@DamKaKaDaNi Why would you do that he's boring as hell .
The only fight he had was with a 🦌 deer and the deer walked away victorious...
Sensei Seth, the birthplace of Karate.
it sounds like JKD has fallen into what Bruce warned you about. Becoming so wrapped up in the style's do's and don'ts that you are no longer free flowing
Exactly :'(
I have never even practiced JKD but this makes me sad anyways, most JKD that go out there usually just make a fool of themselves, they make JKD look just like every other BS martial art
I totally agree.
“Knowing is not enough; we must apply. Willing is not enough; we must do”. - Bruce Lee
I love how you guys don't style shame and are just trying to do problem solving.
I wish that I could find some guys to just brainstorm like this with. This kind of collaboration is how my style (Kajukenbo) was formed.
Way nicer than the "my style is superior to all others because X" dick swinging arguments
I've used this technique before in sparring. Mike's interpretation is spot on for me. If you hit people hard to the body a few times they will start blocking. And you can still do the pac sao if they block correctly with the elbow down, you just have to modify it a bit and be used to that position.
I've also never seen this as a leg punch, always a body shot. I assume originally this probably was a groin shot? And it must have diverged in different training groups.
Leg punch or tapping the leg I see in MMA, when the option of a wrestling shot is there. Just something to keep the opponent guessing. The old "slap the lead leg while following up with the winging overhand" is a staple.
@@MrDioXIII ooo I do like that. Depending on their response you may actually get them to lower their hand for that if they're trying to clear the grip or shoot for an underhook. Haven't fought a lot of wrestlers but that could be interesting.
Jkd wasn’t about doing all of the cool trapping sequences and combos it was about immediately stopping or intercepting the attack
Some trapping is simple to open the gate for the attack, like a paak and punch.
They have ruined jkd like they have karate these guys have no idea obsorb what is useful Jkd is not a style its a concept.
@@brucehuddler7518 This. In my JKD class, we can have a trapping session and then immediately throw on gloves and start boxing. We try to use the "trapping" we just learned to open the gate for an attack. With gloves on, and with your partner throwing fast jabs / crosses, your arms aren't "sticking" enough to play this drill, but it simply allows another tool to open them for a hit.
I'm a fellow JKD practitioner, started 2019. I'm still new in the game. However, I completely agree that a lot of people killed the art of JKD or the whole concept. Trying to show off unrealistic moves. I do like hearing everyones opinion and the break down of the drill and how it can possibly apply in a real life scenario!
Well the problem with "no way as way" is that u have to be somewhat knowledgeable in a "way" before that concept can be applied.
the reference point mimics a collision thus a failed attack which should trigger a response. the goal should always be hitting the main targets and not seek a collision and then follow up with trapping. that's a thing many people get wrong. there is so much wrong with those drills like not learning the right energetics, pressure and follow ups. the more you understand how to fence with hand and feet and get good at it the better you are at changing attack lines and not get entangled with complex trapping patterns. A lot of those drills dan taught because bruce had him teach them in classes at a point in time when bruce couldn't care less if people get good or not.
I love seeing people from a variety of martial arts coming together to discuss it in such a friendly lighthearted manner
The hand low to protect makes more sense if you can't block with a low elbow on something like a stab with a knife. Wing chun was made with butterfly swords in mind.
I've only studied some WC moves in the context of JKD. Could this block be a variation of gaun sau?
I teach the Ping Choy Gua Choy as starting with a Low Jab to the Belly, not the leg. It draws the low block response all the time. If they don't block, you hit him hard to the gut or groin. If they low block, you trap and backfist.
This is part of PIA - Progressive Indirect Attack. Remember- hit the gut or groin. That way, if they don't respond, they still get hit.
This drill does not require a low block, it's a set up to allow you to enter into trapping range. You just want them to block (or even freeze) in some way in order for you to gain an attachment. Miss-matched lead. Do a loose snappy back-fist to the gonads to lop sao to gua choi. In a matched lead, low jab to the guts or a lead hand slap to the fore mentioned gonads, as soon as they drop their hand or their elbow to block, spring up and forwards with a pak sao to gua choi.
JKD has a place in self defense. What makes sense and what can transition well in the the street . In a sparring session depends on the practitioner. I mean if a good leg fighter waits and gauges the JKD fighter . The trapping goes right out the window. Of course it’s range of engagement. From Long , medium and close range .
Trapping is used to eliminate opponents barrier when your opponent provides one if he dont then you have no need to trap. Also it obviously works the other way round if the jkd fight gauges the kicker which is likely because that's what they are trained to do his kicks will go out the window
A trained JKD will not stay outside the box in leg range, but with forward energy, occupy space, at high reference, on center.
American karate is a step away from Japanese Karate which is a step away from Okinawan karate which is like a step away from certain Chinese martial art styles and the bubishi. There are definately set in stone bunkai, you can find a lot of them in the Bubishi, but I can imagine not a lot of that is taught in an American style karate school as its not really taught even in a Shotokan school.
Interesting that I was browsing the comments for something similar before I commented about how goju ryu principles might clarify some of this, then I saw your screen name 👍
EXCELLENT VIDEO GUYS! This is absolutely the foundation for the “how do I make this work” mind set. Because at some point all martial arts techniques that exist right now, worked, at some point in the distant past, because if they didn’t work, good chance the person trying to use them died on the battlefield. But modern commercial martial arts have been (in some instances) “sterilized” but this is the way to think about how to bring them back to life!
If you want to understand trapping and trapping sequences, look at Pekiti Tirsia. You will find much of the trapping techniques in Kali and kung fu and such are about trapping against weapons, usually when you are also armed. Consider that strike to the leg with a weapon like a kerambit or deerhorn knives or many other weapons that use that technique to target the femoral artery. It's a target favoured by people who use an unorthodox grip for their knife combatives because it is more often than not a kill shot.
A lot of what is used now is a misunderstanding of what techniques are designed to counter empty hand and what techniques are designed to counter weapons targeting your most vulnerable parts. Conversely it's also flow drill. It's to teach you a full range of motion and to be comfortable with it.
Finally someone who understands that historically many of these movements involved the use of a weapon. You are 100% correct this movement to the leg was to rip the femoral artery with a blade.
52 blocks/lethewei Is the best case study I’ve seen of how empty hand kali could be applied
Training to fight unskilled opponents has a long history in martial arts. I have a medieval Italian fencing manuscript where most of the techniques discussed are for things like sword on sword duels or fighting someone in armor but a few look a lot like "this is how to fight a poorly trained peasant conscript armed with a spear" that wouldn't work against a professional spearman and one looks like how to fight on horseback against a group of peasants armed with whatever clubs and staves they could find because they're protesting taxes or something.
The pin choi is a feint to draw the lead block, then avoid the block, trap the arm and hit high... it's not meant to be a punch to the leg... pin choi "means" horizontal punch so there's supposed to be a lowered elevation with the feint
Makes sense! It's just hard to get their hand to move to get the trap - hence the video!
In emptiness ..we hit .. at my school we have always used the the drill in order to draw the low lead attachment reference point , whether we are attacking with the lead or rear shot.. interesting vid.
@@metrolinamartialarts If it's meant to be a feint then Mike was spot on. You can't draw the reaction until you've punched them in the dick.
@@gmkgoat Yes, Mike was spot on... watch how Ed reacted!
Given a large part of JKD has a Wing Chun basis, I could also see the initial movement of the JKD/WC practioner being a defense against some of the "unorthodox" strikes from other styles of kung fu that were around in the same region as Wing Chun was developed. Hung Gar, for instance, has a reputation for sometimes striking from extra low stances, so a low straight punch using a vertical-fist or tiger claw could very well target the groin or lower belly of an opponent in a taller stance. The Wing Chun practitioner would need to deflect this before trapping and counter-attacking.
Bruce Lee never meant for JKD to become what it has become, which is a series of dogmatic and prearranged movements. The concept was to explore and grow, the next logical evolution would have been MMA. Even after he clearly stated this, people still go back to training the principles he taught back in '69. I'm pretty sure if he was alive today, JKD would have been something completely different today as he may have discarded much of the earlier principles. JKD was a concept, a process not a system or an end in itself.
I actually don't believe he would have discarded the original principles because they all have a place, but I do think he would add more to them and develop it even more which is what I do by studying other things along side it.
When George Foreman was younger before his comeback he used wing chun trapping. Actually in his comeback match against Michael Moorer he would pull down Michael’s left hand down so he could land his right hand. He would also push his opponents off of him which is technically illegal in boxing. Pushing your opponent is actually very effective because it offsets your opponent’s balance.
At 2:00 watch the older 45 year old George Foreman use his left hand to push Michael Moorer’s left hand down. Then George Foreman launches 🚀 his right hand to end the fight against Michael Moorer.
ua-cam.com/video/AIyGIm9hm7A/v-deo.html
☝🏼
I think those moves are for stripping a grip and not for blocking... but because many martial arts don't spar, the forms uses are forgotten.
I 100% agree with you guys on the romantization of JKD From my experience in competing in MMA, teaching Self Defense and doing security. Trapping works great from grappling/trapping distance. When mixed with modern understanding. Evolution seems to be resistant and looked down upon in the martial arts world. In my opinion Bruce Lee would be upset that his style of fighting has become a "Franchised Style of Fighting".
This discussion ends in a very important point. Aliveness and deadness of training is a spectrum that all good training moves through. Its probably something that fluctuates throughout the life of entire 'styles' of fighting. If it was alive all the time, we'd be so bruised and battered that we'd hate training. If it is dead and theoretical all the time, the bruising and beating will come when we are facing the uncertainty of a dynamic living thinking person instead of a cooperative training partner.
Interestingly one could make the point that shadowboxing vs sparring or kata vs kumite is kinda the deadness vs aliveness paradigm put into training. You train alone and then with someone else and the reality of fighting lies somewhere in the middle: not just about what you do and not just about what the opponent will do, but instead the combination of both.
It makes me think the attacker is creating a groin attack feint. The defender goes for it, thus creating the trap opportunity. You have to remember that Bruce Lee created Jeet Kune Do for actual fighting (basically street fighting), and he even said that punching / kicking the groin, pulling hair, and biting are all valid moves.
Kick a man who is down in the butthole or the balls, it hurts a lot more - paraphrasing Bruce Lee
"Bunkai can be whatever you want it to be" feels like a deeply American answer, haha.
I will say that McDojoLife and Icey Mike's interpretations are right on. This is conceivably both offensive and defensive. You only need that hand low, for any # of reasons, for you to grab/check and pop up a strike - it's contextual. If offensive, they have to fear the initial strike (i.e. they need to be conditioned to respond to it) or alternately rely on either a) untrained instinct or b) an instinct rooted in using the front hand for blocks/parries.
The b) option is less common now, but I think it's important to remember that Lee spent time working with folks that had "traditional" (read: actually modern, but nvmd that) backgrounds that were taught to do just that. He also spent some substantive time fighting untrained opponents in scraps as a teenager (both when he was untrained and later after picking up wing chun). That kind of exp shapes your training.
I think IceyMike is also right that we should train for both untrained fighters *and* folks that might know a thing or two. With the rise of popularity of combat sports like MMA, the likelihood that an attacker knows something (or at least attempts to imitate what they've seen) is statistically relevant.
Great convo!
The problem with jkd is that u cannot have "no way as way" without first having a foundation "a way" i think Bruce's theory has been misunderstood
The difference between competition and self defense. 1 has some set of rules involved and the goal is to get your had raised. Self defense is 1st and for most walking away and leave. You don't know if said person has a gun or knife. It's if you beat this person down most of the time it's bad for you. But remember the moment they start going you try to end it quick and brutal. Break and maim if need be. Also trapping look at Tony fergason has used the whole time he has fought
Well, anything that does not work in a competition will very likely not work in real self-defence situation either. If you fight to win, you fight to end the fight while trying to stay safe from your opponent attacks. If you cannot win in competition, you definitely have a lesser chance of winning in the streets. The rules bias is another thing, people who never trained with professionals use to differentiate themselves - do you really think elbowing someone very precisely on chin or brow is that different than targeting neck, or other "forbidden" areas in competition?
@@TenemdaMc except when you're training for competition, you're training for a set a rules and condition your muscles to react within those rules.Muscle memory is a thing
I have never seen a trapping/flow drill off of a punch to the leg in JKD
Same, it was a tad confusing
I will speak in favor of the humble low block.
This technique is designed to damage the incoming arm. It won't work if you/he are wearing gloves. It will fail the *second* time you use it against a trained opponent, because he will see your first reaction, bait you low, and then hit high. But in a street fight there is not going to be a second time--you hopefully finish the fight by then.
Crazy how different JKD schools can be. My daughter and son attend a school that calls itself JKD due to its founder bringing JKD to Columbus in 1974 but after all that time they basically teach a library of mostly Japanese styles which the instructor has high rank in including Jeet Kune Do, Bando, Jiu-Jitsu, Aikido, Judo, and Iaido. Focus is on fundamentals and athleticism. The students spar regularly with pads and are expected to choose the (often overlapping) techniques that work best for them.
Here is my theory about the concept of the combo( not saying will work). TLDR: Aim for the groin to force opponet to block, which gives you the change to grab the blocking arm to cause imbalance /control of your opponent, and then you punch to the head.
In CMA it is very often to see the "redudant grabbing/pressing" followed by blocking, instead of a counter punch immediately. It has to do with the concept in CMA training that you have no idea if the opponent has a knife or not thus one more controlling step has to be added to the training combo. It may sound stupid since controlling one''s forearm is really hard but in a life and death situation it might give one a chance to survive.
Now here comes the tricking part: If I assume my opponet had a knife, why'd I punch downward which give my opponent a good chance to cut my hand? It might be like what Mike said that you are the defensive one and the very first move is blocking, or ...baiting? You might be able to trace the combo from Wing Chun if there is simlilar technique and explanation about the combo. I perosnally knows nothing about Wing Chun or JKD
This was a cool video and discussion. I didnt go through all 350+ comments so sorry if this has been mentioned/discussed already. I can't speak for JKD specifically but it seems to draw heavily from wing chun and kung fu. Karate, at least the Okinawan styles, also derive from kung fu, chuan fa, and other Chinese arts so there is a lot of overlap in principles of limb management and passing arms back and forth. In goju ryu, there is a lot of passing limbs, pinning, crossing and checking the arms. It is sometimes referred to as stand up grappling. In reference to the down block they are talking about, karate uses the terms "uke" and "barai" to describe blocking motions. These terms actually mean "recieve" and "sweep" respectively, so when you look at it in that context, goju teaches to sweep the limb down, or redirect it. Often people think a down block is to block something down low, like a kick or leg punch, but really the gedan barai, low sweeping block, can effectively redirect anything in the middle range downward towards the hip. So using this context, a low sweeping block can be used to push an attack downward, even checking it against their body if you can, and then climb up the back of the arm like he is showing in the video. This is part of the misunderstanding of karate blocks. The Japanese and many American styles have lengthened the range to the striking range, but the original Okinawan styles were often developed for use within arms length or even clinch range to pass, tie up, crank, wrench, lock or break joints, or close distance for a takedown. Many of the bunkai of goju ryu involve checking the limbs and then body checking or crashing through the ranges to takedown. I love the discussions around these techniques and people finding the practicality that has been lost due to the old styles being sportified.
The way you blocked at 7:00 is how I was taught to implement it rather than putting the arm down too much. Also a lot of people judge techniques and different positions by saying "nobody fights like this" but they don't understand the idea behind why you do it in the first place.
The point about people who don't know much about fighting and doing "stupid" stuff is pretty valid.
In order to become a master in medieval germany you had to fight a rookie , a drunk guy who has some experience and a master.
Best application (bunkai) of those blocks I’ve ever seen was grip breaks. Wrestlers and other grapplers do it a lot. Makes sense: opponent grabs you and you don’t train grappling? Break the grip and make ‘em pay!
I love the youtube martial arts sphere. Hope it makes wing chun great again. Also Tell them to get a historical rapier finally. please god. thanks for the vid :)
🤜💥🤛 Working on it!
I love these videos where Icy Mike is just perched in the background talking shit like an angry little garden gnome.
🤣🤣🤣
Yall are just doing a whole infinity war of crossovers. I'm enjoying it.
I can't say I've done extensive jkd training, but I've definitely taken classes. And I haven't really seen much of that low block for low punches. Usually for body kicks. But I have to agree with the mike about being offensive, to create the reaction you want, to do the move you want...set it up. I've learned to apply basic trapping against a jab, but I have to make them wana jab me and time their strike. Though I've kinda exchanged my wingchun/jkd trapping for the escrima version. And I have used it in sparring. Though it has been a while since I've sparred.
It's a sensitivity drill, you see trapping in boxing. Someone slaps or pulls a hand down from the face then use the energy to hook or uppercut the face. In Grappling you pin the arm then punch the face or set up a sub. It's a trap.
Awwwwe, i was actually hoping for a longer video! That was super interesting!
This is amazing content for a free video on UA-cam. Really loving the collab videos!
Reallt fun to watch.
Also, I don't know if this counts but George St. Pierre would often feint the jab ( I assume he established it as a threat first ), then when the opponent tried to parry it, he would PARRY that parry and then jab.
So: ( Establish jab )
1. Feint jab and make opponent try to parry.
2. Parry the parry and then jab in the now open spot.
A Squirrel Grip will definitely get a hand down reaction. That lower block is a good defence for that, lower covering hand covers or grabs their wrist and the blocking hand simply knocks it away or strikes vulnerable spots on the arm.
Funny that nobody mentioned the first attack maybe being about programming an idea into your opponent. Stiff jab somebody in the stomach or leg, and they are very likely to respond in kind, so then you'd have your opponent lowering their arm for you to counter with this trapping combo.
Counter to no one fights with a wrist connection...Jones blasted Cormier a dozen times in one of their fights doing this exact thing.
A key to fighting, but especially trap fighting, is psychology. You don't just work on skills to respond to what you're opponent does, that's a LOT of work and relies in precise timing and fight IQ that most people will never be able to properly develop, but you work on understanding how people will response to stimuli and feed them the stimuli that will get the response you want to land the technique you want.
In grappling I'm not trying to get a straight arm bar from guard, I'm threatening the straight arm bar to get a specific defense against the technique in feeding them. If they reasons wrong, hey I get the arm bar. If they respond correctly I go down a path of two or three other techniques causing the defenses I want or resounding with attacks in writing for, leaving them open to the technique I was going for from the beginning.
If you are really interested in JKD and why everyone drifted away from the system (yea its a system/phylosophy, rather than art or style), you gotta check out mr Tommy Carruthers. He kept it nearest to the source cause all his friends are or were Bruce's students. Give it a look, he will amaze you. Good video, the most important thing is to have fun, cause if you dont enjoy what you are doing then its in vain.
The intent must be there. You probably need to strike them in the solar plex, groin or the liver in order for you to get them to react. If they don't block then they are hit. Rob and icy mike make a good point on how to get that technique going. That jab low must create some damage in order for it to work.
UFC fighters who use concepts from JKD and fight mostly, powerside forward: Anderson Silva right handed southpaw, Jon Jones left handed orthodox, Israel Adesanya ambidextrous born left handed fights orthodox. Aside from the fact they either talk about it, or especially in the case of Silva, outright say they use it; if you study the concepts an techniques, you can tell what they use from it (kneestomps, stance, specific distance management, mostly vertical fist, drawing, feinting, intercepting/ countering game, etc). Problem is it's just not supposed to be a specific fighting style; instead it's concepts that you can, take what ones you find useful and discard what you don't.
P.s.
Bonus powerside forward fighters: GSP is a left handed orthodox and said it was his "secret weapon", Nick and Nate Diaz-right handed, Colby Covington-right leaning and right handed, Cyril Gane-right handed, Dustin Porier-right handed. Wonderboy- also right handed and often fights powerside forward. Yes most of them fight very well in both stances and switch, but that's the point in powerside forward........years....YEARS! I've been trying to just get you people to look at what Lee originally said, for yourselves; not what most JKD here on UA-cam has twisted it into
A scale is learned to create muscle memory. A person then takes that to learn to play or write a song. Drills are the same. Once the movements are learned the sequence can be altered for the situation and person. As hard2hurt already said some make more sense with a weapon. It is safer to work empty hand and some cultures were disarmed but kept the weapons movement for that "if I get my hands on a weapon again..." situation. For instance, that low block he asked for looks weird until a bladed spear like a halberd is in hand and you see that tucks the bow part under the arm and against the body while the extended arm would place the bladed end between the thigh and shin guard on armor to attack the exposed joint area of the knee. Backhands to the side of the head or neck seem ineffective until the blunt end of a bludgeon or blade handle is involved. Context of movement is everything.
All star cast here. Love it. Great vid too, and I absolutely agree on the applications for the art to move forward.
This is a beginner drill to help develop flowing from trapping range into boxing range into kicking range. You never got past the trapping part of the drill. The point where the arms meet in trapping range is just a reference point to help the beginner see how to enter into trapping range. It usually doesn’t exist in real fighting but beginning trappers have to start somewhere. More advanced trapping does away with the reference points. The point of trapping is not to trap but to hit. On the way to hitting you encounter an obstruction and you clear the obstruction with a trap. The reference point that you spent 10 minutes debating is just an artificial obstruction used for training beginners.
I trained with JKD guys who were great all-around fighters, and I never saw them pull off a trap in the way it's often trained. I think they saw it as mostly attribute training. You can hand trap guys of course, but it doesn't work where your arms meet in the air and you roll and trap. It's more about grabbing hands using a long guard, getting those hands out of the way, and throwing a punch from there. Happens all the time in MMA. Usman did it to Masvidal when he KO'd him.
IMO JKD is more of a philosophy that is applied to practical techniques you've already acquired instead of its own fighting style. For example, the Five Ways of Attack is very applicable to both boxing and MMA, but with very different executions.
I love how it took 8 whole minutes to realize the move was meant to counter a groin shot.
The strike that the jkd practitioner was striking toward the leg can be executed with a punch to the body or a grab toward the wrist.👍 I've done private lessons of jkd and wing chun it's a very popular drill.
Yeah, the ping choy gua choy series is about building attributes.
And I have had people bite that way with a low punch so long as you are really selling it. But they don’t always. That’s the live part. Feeling them out. Seeing how they will react. If they react that way, then you have a tool and when they don’t, use a different tool.
The arms crossed thing is a reference point. If they block or your arms get into that position you can go for a trap.
You train first from the reference, where it’s dead, then start training it more active and live while still knowing what’s happening (I’m gonna punch. You are gonna block. We are gonna do this at live speed and you aren’t going to leave your arm out there like a dummy, I’m going to go for the trap).
And you work it live in sparring.
It’s not what you train, it’s how you train it. Beginner is dead, by the time you get a lot of experience, you should be working it live.
The drill is a mix of Da Sam Sing and Ping Choi. People started do the punch to the leg to back people up!
Don't forget the jkd principle -"Freedom"
I guess because I don’t get into street fights I’ve never really seriously considered the fact that most of my training has been preparing me to fight other people with similar training. I’ve kind of just implicitly had this mentality of if they have no training it’s not gonna matter because I’ll win.
As a JKD instructor, I totally get your point. And plenty of people miss the attribute building side vs the combat application is side... and the probably vs the possibly. There is also a difference people's reactions in this day and age. Dan Inosanto would say that a side kick in the 60s & 70s worked like magic but you were considered a dirty fighter. I also know from experience that you could rear naked choke just about anyone in the 80s & early 90s and they had no clue what was about to happen. 😉
It looks like there might be another application for this defending an arm drag but it would be more like stripping the hand and going immediately on the offensive. Icy Mike had a video about people training to stop after every exchange, like you do your technique then stop and reset, so this could maybe be incorporated as a way to encourage people to overcome that and continue the fight, which I guess would mean turning it into a flow drill? I know sweet FA about JKD though so I'm probably talking crap, that just seems like a possible alternative to me.
The type of attack you describe corresponds to a knife attack. After the opponent defending ,you use the other hand and continue attacks up to the neck with an open hand and with the hand of the knife. You can see these defenses in mixed krav maga (a combat method I developed very similar to mma but with self-defense) and in Filipino combat called Arnisc
The low attack, is from Wing Chun, a cut to the Femoral Artery, so in essence you'd have to block, or you'll be dead.
Yeah a knife would definitely get you reaching down
Maybe groin punch would result in a low block. Ik in jkd they have techniques for that
Patrick McCarthy (A very well respected Karate man, probably the greatest karate scholar in the western world) advocates striking the groin area as a distraction, because it's one of the surest way to get a reaction. I'm curious if even people with martial arts training would drop their hands under those circumstances.
Guys the jkd thing would make more sense if you’re doing groin shots, then you might get a desired reaction, you forgot jkd is about dirty fighting. Start adding groin shots in your sparring, then it will work!
I'm a Ted Wong lineage JKD guy and we have never done drills like this, and do very little trapping. Mainly we do a lot of padwork, working techniques, and sparring. Doing so really helps to avoid the kind of issues pointed out in this video. It's not so "if he does.... You do..." It's just training the tools that we then have the freedom to deploy however.
Makes sense - this is an Inosanto lineage thing. May exist in Taky's as well - at least that's what I've heard.
I love this discussion, thank you!
In my choy lee fut system we have a very similar drill. We use the chap choy, the punch with the middle knuckles, for soft parts of the body. The balls/dick, below the ribs (on a side of the body), the neck or just below the sternum (where your stomach begins, sort of). Like Mike said, you go for a dick punch or a body shot, then go up if you get blocked.
The one time I've seen punching the thigh work was when Benson Henderson do it to Nate Diaz a few time. He punched his thigh, feinted down and then went over with an overhand that put Nate on his ass.
Did you look at it as if your opponent tries to grab your hand since it is in a low guard position then trap and strike?
Ya know, I didn't think I was going to subscribe to another martial arts channel, but here we are.
You rock 🤜💥🤛
I really enjoy the increasing mcu "extended universe" vibes from these videos
this is more of a knife drill in kali actually, hitting low angles with an ice pick grip, it would make sense with a weapon..
Perhaps instead of the intial 'punch' to the leg it's intended as a grab instead? Someone initiating a takedown perhaps or responding to you (the JKD practioner) throwing a kick they try to grab your leg?
Sifu in my humble opinion in Bruce Lee style 5 ways to attack this is an attacked by draw (ABD) technique. The application of Ping Choi Da is to draw a reaction from the adversary (similar to garbage hand). Your response would be based on muscle memory. Remember, “Be Like Water”!
Bruce Lee use a similar technique in Return of the Dragon. He started out Highlow and then he went low-high.
Commenting for the algorithm! Great video. I'm little more than a fairweather martial artist at best but I've often wondered what Lee would have made of MMA and other styles. I'd wager he'd have been interested in cherry picking things that worked for him.
Anyway great vid and nice to see a super-group of UA-cam Martial Artists shooting the sh*t!
Maybe that drill is done with historical Jun Fan Gung Fu/JKD lessons, but I doubt many would really use that in JKD sparring nowadays. Moreover, I'm afraid that many people idolizing Sijo Bruce Lee's moves from the films, are unlikely certified instructors under the Guro Inosanto lineage, but probably just poseurs.
Sometimes it's good to think about the upstroke chambering part of the so-called "lower block".
OK, I never saw the two man reverse potato sack fighting drill, that's a good one!
Bruce Lee said on the street not to punch someone’s legs and not to try to kick high… in his day karate was very popular so this was a setup jab to the body the karate guy blocks low and you go high
Hit when you can. Trap if you must. JKD is predicated on hitting. If all your punches land you are having a good day! When your sparing partner/opponent blocks an attack that is when you trap and then resume hitting.
The problem I see with the trapping styles is that with the evolution of martial arts, people who train just dont fight in a way conducive to "sticky hands" or trapping. Boxing I think has especially changed the way hands are used in fighting now. I know my instructors have shown me really awesome flow drills, and they look so cool! They seem to work! However you go to try them in a spar session... and its very awkward, they are hard to use and typically you move on to a more simple tactic. What do you think? I know I will still teach some trap fighting drills like this one you are showing just for hand eye coordination, and to show students how fighting has evolved.
You hit it on the head... they look cool, but are awkward to try to apply against a non-compliant opponent. In stress and chaos, the brain falls back on simpler movements.
Where can I get those shorts, that don't make short guys look like they are wearing golf knickers?
I got these from Toro BJJ
Fun video...thanks guys!
There are so many of the best high level strikers in mma who utilize jkd/wc and you can literally point at the moves and show the same thing
Some people, myself included, parry or try to catch the thigh kicks. If I were to try to punch their thigh, they will think it's stupid, unless like Mike said, you hurt them and make them flinch on the next hit. But most ppl check the kick with a knee, so it's really a case by case scenario anyways. I'll call MMA the art of "actual fighting", traditional martial arts are tools to apply to "actual fighting" most people apply traditional martial arts to traditional martial arts, instead of "actual fighting". Then they are surprised when it fails them. 🙏❤️ Much love to you and the guys!
I was taught that a gedan Barai was a throw like a judo taiatoshi interesting to see other interpretations
Are you guys able to consistently and reliably block in your own arts? If not I’d say you could start there when trying to apply jkd trapping
not being a troll, but a practitioner of the art. chop chow is not to the leg. it is to the floating rib. And you strike it 5 or 6 times until it hurts so much that they want to block it. then you do the gwop chow with the pock to come in close to start the trapping. then you use chi sow to maneuver the opponent into the position that you want. btw, a good pock should make your opponent think you broke their ribs.
There's a reason Bruce threw trapping into the trash can and just improved the entire system with boxing mobility and fencing footwork
These collaboration videos are great. I have a question for seth would mixing the throws and trips of some styles of karate mix well with kickboxing full contact styles?
Lots of people always use a very high standard of viewpoint when being introduced to a technique.
Let’s just say, the technique itself has no good or bad, just the one that wields it.
And what makes the difference is the experience.
And techniques are not a piece of accessories, like a hat, pair of shoes or sunglasses you put them on when you need it, it’s not that easy due to our human body and mind-you need to really use it to the point that you want to throw up in order for it to show its effectiveness.
Which means besides the drill of the technique, one needs to intergrade it into sparring or any none-rehearing training, until it becomes an instinct when triggered. Only then one can tell if the technique works or not for himself only.
Instead of going low for a strike to the leg couldn't it be some kind of takedown?
Hello I have been doing research on JKD and self studying JKD, It helps understand yourself, Understand your environment and how your opponent may perform, practice only techniques and not forms nor katas actually help with attack speed, I practice the Straight Lead punch a lot and from what I remember it drastically increase my punching speed & helped understand intercepting, it is efficient, not many people understand it, JKD is incomplete, you can up your own concept of techniques but add forms but don't over add techniques, you must add less but still effective techniques, the more I learn through research and training, the more I understand about Bruce Lee's JKD concept, and how it used
@@Kori-shimotori344 Keep training brother!
@hard2hurt, I noticed you had a knee wobble (valgus collapse) as you stood up -- wanted to check this is something you are aware of (and potentially rehabbing)? Always good to deal with a movement pattern issue sooner rather than later (when it has caused damage).
One of the things Ramsey Dewey says about wing Chun is that it really is only good against wing Chun. I don't agree with that sentiment, and I think we've seen people be relatively successful at practical wing Chun, but this series is probably one where it has some merit.
I don't think many styles would block a low punch like that. An untrained fighter or a fellow JKD/wing Chun practitioner probably would. This series in particular seems very dependent on your opponent also practicing center line defense.
The "low block" has always been a grip strip in my mind. Only reason I could see for the motion the way it's done
One application
It is a grip strip when it's the big move and you use both hands, it's a parry/block when it's one handed.
In all honestly Seth is not that versed at traditional styles xd
Idk man, of only we could ask who ever invented it lol
Man, i hate Karate/Taekwondo katas so much
Hi guys.. I appreciate the video! Thanks! Try this. The next time you bridge. Use a GAURD HAND and a BUI GEE finger jab. Wedge the hand with a flat cover and then punch over it. This is fencing with the hands. We use BUI SAO exclusively for entries kk guys. Ping choy gua choy is a low level practice thing. In reality. We reach in (right hand) left hand goes inside my righthand to the throat. Hen the right hand can punch. We fence with the heads. Strike strike strike. But always cover cross and reach in for a reaction or contact. Stop by my site n see some stuff. I put up descriptions too to read if you click the little bubbles. Deflections and power hits. Fabulous guys! But ya, PING CHOY GUA CHOY is an old school practice set. In street applications we use finger jab to open up punches ok. That’s true real JKD. Ty
Tony Ferguson attempted that leg punch thing lots of times on Justin Gaethje. It did absolutely nothing, but now I know it's a real thing. Interesting. I do it every now and then to mess with people in sparring.