Love it! As a tactile hard of hearing person (learned ASL age 25), I immediately got it (hand tapping, like a yes, that's right, hmmmm, yeah). What was new was learning that the touch also helps with knowing what's going on with the speaker, It would definitely help with turn taking. You are a great team! Thanks!
I have joined sign language now for 4 years and have new deaf blind friend to visit. I cannot thank you enough for your series so help me begin to communicate with her. Keep up the good work! Penelope
I teach ASL to hearing kids. I'm Deaf. Teaching PT has been ... I would call, a blessing. Not in a religious sense, but an informative, well-rounded sense, especially for kids who had no idea that there were successful Deaf folk in the world, MUCH LESS successful Deaf-blind folks! This wasn't around when I grew up with ASL. My signs were from the 50s, like the people who taught the people I learned from, and I was raised to believe DB folk used signs letter-for-Letter. To have an honest, truthful, educational way to introduce Deaf-blind communication (pro-tactile) to hearing kids (who just met a Deaf person for the first time very recently) is such a gift to offer our future leaders, waitresses, customer service workers, teachers, lawyers (bosses?), feels like such a privilege! It's not just about "adjusting" Deaf communication (ASL) to meet the needs of those who are Deaf-blind, but a language and syntax entirely separate (but equal to) from ASL that still provides the same information and access to the visual components of sighted responses (mouth open, nod, or shaking the head, or describing 3-dimensional space, is both exciting and illuminating to both the Deaf world AND the hearing world! Thank you for this (older) introduction! I'm excited to share this video with future generations! Question: I know ASL changes/adds/adjusts signs from one generation to the next, and when we add TECHNOLOGY (ie: video calls with one hand holding a phone, turning two-handed signs into singular-handed signs, mainl y for clarity) then ASL gets tossed into a RAPIDLY changing word salad ... my question: has PT gone through similar changes?? Edits: typos.... oops!
Thank you so much for posting this. I am newly deafened two years, but grew up with Deaf friends. I had seen a student at the school I went to last year who is Deaf and Blind but has a little view area. I also have another Deaf friend who also works with a Deaf Blind program in Canada here, but could not really explain to me how the communication worked. He was trying to demonstrate it with me, but I could not grasp it. This is great to see. I am excited to watch other postings from you both.
Jelica and aj - as always, pioneers in the field! Thank you for putting a name and recognition to the techniques that we have been using from within the community for so long. Bringing this to the general public through your extensive knowledge and effervescent personalities will surely make a great impact. Thanks and keep on keeping on! All the best from the other coast, Susie
This is so inspirational... Wow! I'm learning a lot from you gal! You are truly making a difference in many deaf blind people's lives and our lives too!
Thank you both for sharing this introduction to PT and allowing those of us who are not in Seattle to learn from you and incorporate into our daily lives with others. I will post this on our DB Member Section Listserv for all to view and hopefully subscribe. THANK YOU again for sharing.
I received the transcription! Thanks Aj & Jelica! You both have taught me more awareness! Thank you, you both are an inspiration! Thank you, I look forward to more vlog coming soon! I appreciate you for making the time to do this! Many will benefit from your info.
You rock the non-blind world as I learned so much as I felt your tactile via your valuable information! I want to learn more about your sociocultural sensitivity relate to blind's communication naturally. Thanks so much for sharing!
You rock! I never have seen someone posting a UA-cam video of someone with another deafblind individual signing through tactile sign language. Finally, I caught a beauty of this Pro-Tactile! I might fly to Seattle this summer for International DB or something.
it is excellent educating to any people about the DeafBlind Way. Kudos! both of you did good job for educating. I am sure the people will respect and get more sensitive toward the DeafBlind people after you educate us.
That's great vlogs about The DeafBlind Way. I am tactile deaf interpreter and my husband is having Ushers and being deafblind, so far. My husband always tapped his hands on my hands or arms. It is really related to all deafblind people that i know. Your Vlogs is much helpful and make me and other tactile interpreter to understand why and what is PT means to us. That s wonderful. Thumbs Up!
THIS IS HUGE! Turn-taking at the sub-lexical level... From a phonological perspective they are sharing each other's articulators to produce "words". Fascinating!
Jelica & AJ!!! I am sooooo happy you did this video! Tactile Signing is exactly what I have been trying to introduce to the deaf community and Interpreters. However, I had not seen anyone use "Pro Tactile" before. That is really cool! I also like the idea of signing with both hands so that others can see (if they can) what you are tactile signing to the other person!
Wow.. You two are fantastic. so much energy and information. Thank you for sharing the info on PT and I look forward to "seeing" more. Keep smiling and laughing, you two are terrific together.
I cant wait for more videos! I am hearing, but sign and am involved in the deaf community. This will be an interesting new experience! Already subscribed! Ready for the next vlog!
Hello. I'm totally blind and want to communicate/ learn more about ASL. I have a friend who's deaf that lives in the building I do. So I'm blind and hearing and she's sighted and deaf so needing to figure out the best way to communicate! Any suggestions?
Support Circle for all I am two years late, so you've probably worked it out already, but if not I think typing may work well. You're able to type and she's able to see, so that would work if you cannot use tactile sign
Transcript: Jelica Nuccio: Hello! Welcome to our very first vlog [aj taps Jelica vigorously on the knee and smiles. Both are receiving signs tactually, and their legs are touching] Called... aj granda: Pro-tactile! We abbreviate that, “P-T”. Jelica Nuccio: PT! My name is Jelica, and my sign name is a Y across the chest [from shoulder to waist.] [both aj and Jelica are smiling at one another. When aj signs, Jelica listens with one hand and has her other hand on aj’s knee, tapping often to let aj know she is listening, sometimes with more force to signal strong agreement, for example. Both presenters are wearing all black and are signing in front of a blue background.]. aj granda: I am aj granda and my name sign is “aj”. Jelica Nuccio: Our goal today is to introduce something that has been drawing a lot of attention lately, and that is “PT” [Jelica extends her arms toward aj to invite her to continue]. aj granda: Indeed, PT has been drawing a lot of attention lately. And I want to extend a heartfelt thank you to everyone who has been so supportive, so curious, and so enthusiastic about it. And thank you also for your patience. Jelica and I started developing PT several years ago, and things have been moving fairly slowly. We both have jobs and families, and in general, we have busy lives. But PT has spread across the country and there is a clear demand for more information, so we have finally decided to make this vlog a priority. We plan to post regularly from here on out. [aj is signing with two hands at the same time. For example, In Visual ASL, the sign CURIOUS would be a one-handed sign. aj signs this sign with two hands-one copy for each hand].
Jelica Nuccio: That’s right, aj. And I wanted to add-I am DeafBlind and Ushers. Aj is also DeafBlind and Ushers. We both live in Seattle, and most of the people who have contributed to the development of these practices also live in Seattle. Some come from outside of Seattle as well. We want to thank those people. You might notice that aj and I are taking turns and tapping each other’s knees as we communicate [aj pats Jelica’s knee emphatically]. That is part of PT. Now, aj, can you explain why we call these things “pro-tactile”? aj granda: Yes, absolutely. Many people have asked me why we call it “pro-tactile”. Well, when we put pro- before another word, we usually mean that we support whatever that second word stands for. Tactile, you might think means tactile reception of signs. So many people assume that what “pro-tactile” means is essentially “support tactile reception”. Jelica Nuccio: But that’s not it! [aj taps Jelica’s knee hard, two times, in agreement]. aj granda: Right. It doesn’t mean that at all. In the DeafBlind world, people do not all use tactile reception. Many people do, but we are not saying that people have to do that. That’s your decision. Remember what tactile really means is “touch”. “Pro-tactile” really means that we value touch for purposes of communication. During this presentation, Jelica and I have been giving each other tactile feedback the whole time, tapping on each other’s legs, and hands, and shoulders, and arms. That is pro-tactile. Jelica Nuccio: Yes, and when you start from there-from a place of valuing touch for communication, this leads you to the DeafBlind way. So for example, Deaf people communicate a lot using facial expressions and the particular ways that they do that is part of their culture [aj taps emphatically on Jelica’s knee]. Even if one Deaf person uses Visual ASL, and the other one does not, they are still both visual people, who respond to visual cues as communications. We know there is a lot of diversity in our community in terms of communication, and that is fine. The only thing that matters is touch. Without a mutual understanding of the value of touch, there can be no communication. [Jelica points to aj’s hand, where it is tapping excitedly on her knee]. What aj is doing right now is a perfect example. That is how I know that she is listening and how she feels about what I am saying. When Deaf, sighted people communicate with each other, they know that the other person is listening because they nod their heads, their jaw might go slack in amazement, their eyes might widen. DeafBlind people miss out on that kind of information [aj continues to tap on Jelica’s knee enthusiastically, and also signs YES repeatedly on Jelica’s knee]. Hearing people say “hmmmmmm...” when they are listening to one another and this accomplishes the same function as facial expressions for Deaf people. But when Deaf people are talking to hearing people, they don’t attend to those sorts of noises. They focus on the hearing person’s facial expressions and body language and that is how they establish a connection with them. That is how they get a sense of who that person is and how they can relate to them. Deaf people have visible ways of doing that. Hearing people have audible ways of doing that. Being pro-tactile means recognizing that DeafBlind people have tactile ways of doing the same things. When aj taps my leg in certain ways at certain times, it tells me something about what kind of person she is and I have a sense of how we are relating to one another. Touch is our way of being present with one another. It’s about touch. It’s that simple! aj granda: Yes, although, its simplicity can be deceiving. To reiterate what Jelica has just said--- you can see that I am nodding my head right now. Does Jelica know that I am nodding my head? How do you know? Jelica Nuccio: Head nodding is not natural. [aj taps Jelica’s knee rapidly several times]. That [pointing to aj’s hand] is natural. aj granda: [nods head and taps Jelica’s knee in the same rhythm]. The head nodding and knee- tapping match. They serve the same function [Jelica nods and smiles at the camera]. If you’re going to nod your head, you have to tap on the knee of the person you are nodding at the same time. Otherwise, they don’t know you are agreeing with them. That is the kind of thing that allows us to share information with one another, and that is being pro-tactile is all about. One way I like to explain PT is to compare it to using a TTY. You might remember what that was like-when the person you were talking with would type and type and type, and you already knew what they were saying, you already had that information. In person, you would just tell them, “Yeah, I know that already,” but the way the TTY was set up, you couldn’t interrupt, so you just had to sit there and wait until they were done. Finally, after what seemed like an unbearably long time, you would see the letters, “G-A” at which point you would tell the person, “Yeah, I already knew that. You didn’t have to tell me.” So the constraints of the technology made for some really frustrating and inefficient interactions. Well, before PT, DeafBlind communication was like that. Interactions were limited and we didn’t have access to all of the cues that make things smoother and more efficient. Pro-tactile communication is immediate. Turn-taking is seamless. There are no awkward time lags or frustrating constraints. Information is received when it is produced, and there is a constant stream of information coming from the person you are talking to---like now, how Jelica is touching my knee and giving me constant feedback. It’s fantastic! Jelica Nuccio: And these ways of communicating feel natural very quickly. So you might be asking yourself why PT didn’t happen sooner. Well, the reason is that hearing and Deaf people have been dominant in our community until now. They thought that they were the ones with all of the knowledge and expertise about us, and we thought that was true. But that meant that we had to try to do things the sighted way. That is why we were under so much stress, why we felt that we were slow in learning things, and why we were always the last to know what was going on. For example, if a sighted person was doing something and a DeafBlind person was waiting to talk to them, the sighted person would say, “Hold on.” Then they would drop the DeafBlind person’s hand and leave them standing there, not knowing what was going on. They might say, “I’ll explain later.” That is not natural for us. If those two people were pro-tactile, then the DeafBlind person would be able to leave their hand on the hand of the sighted person while they did whatever they needed to do, and the DeafBlind person would know what was going on the whole time. Pro-tactile is inclusive---it allows us to be involved in what is going on when it is going on. For example, if a person is having a conversation with their friend, they don’t have to tell you, “I’m talking to my friend, I’ll tell you about it later.” They can just invite you to observe the conversation tactually. So one of the basic ideas behind the pro-tactile movement is that we can be involved in our environments without interpreters describing everything to us after the fact. We can feel things for ourselves. Everyone likes to watch what other people are doing and what other people are saying to each other. Human beings are eavesdroppers, and DeafBlind people are no exception. aj granda: I agree with everything you’ve said, Jelica. And I want to emphasize: Pro-Tactile is a philosophy that guides action in everyday life. It is a socio-cultural movement that is affecting personal, political, and one more thing-what was it? Jelica Nuccio: And linguistic! aj granda: Yes! And Linguistic dimensions of our everyday lives. Jelica Nuccio: Yes, that is just a very brief introduction to the meaning of “pro-tactile”. From here, we will have a series of vlog posts. The first one will be an in-depth discussion of “backchanneling”. Following that, we will talk about TASL (not TSL). And those are just our first topics. We plan to post many more vlogs in the near future. We will be talking about all of the different aspects of pro-tactile philosophy---its personal, political, and linguistic implications. We will talk about how pro-tactile practices can affect your work environment, your relationships with other people, and more. aj granda: For now, we’re going to have to end the vlog. But in our next appearance, we will explain backchanneling. We will be giving you some examples, and show you how to do it yourselves. After that, we’ll be talking about TASL, and we will go from there. We are glad to have this opportunity to introduce ourselves to you, and give you a brief introduction to pro- tactile philosophy. Thank you to you all, and we are so excited to share this with you. Jelica Nuccio: Wait! There is one last thing. Pro-tactile practices are for everyone. Deaf people can be pro-tactile if they communicate the DeafBlind way. Hearing people can be pro-tactile if they communicate the DeafBlind way. Hard of hearing people can too! Pro-tactile is the DeafBlind way, and it is creating a world that is natural for us. That is it. Thank you very much for watching. aj granda: Thank you everyone for joining us in our new world! Go pro-tactile!!! Jelica Nuccio: This is aj [name sign: aj], and I am Jelica [name sign: Y across chest from shoulder to hip]. aj granda: Thank you [to Jelica] Bye everyone! [Jelica leans over and rests head on aj’s shoulder. They both smile, and squeeze each other’s hands].
This is great! I look forward to watching the series of these VLOGS! I'm an interpreter that works with deaf-blind and anything that I could learn to make communication all inclusive then I'm all about it! Thank both of you ladies for this insightful information.
Thank you so much for this vlog! I am looking forward to more. I love how this conveys information so naturally. The first time I saw it discussed, it made me think "Of course! Why haven't we been doing this all along?!"
excellent! Hi AJ!!! congrats on setting up the vlog and best wishes in your PT efforts! perhaps you want to come visit Rochester, NY?? Workshop maybe? smile. Best, Kim Stefani Kelstone (from CST 1999 Miracle Worker)
Believe me, I never really watch most vlogs more than once, but your vlog I actually went back and watched it again, again. It is very informative and this vlog is really very educational. I just wish both you can get on Oprah TV show or any other TV interviews because it'll help audience to realize all "natural" are on this world just like you said at end! It is true!
Let you know, that certain Usher Syndrome user do not read subtitle on video that well. While Blind do not able to receive reply to braille from the video's subtitle. So, that's why there is transcript for both them. Hope that help you understand.
Thanks for sharing! I have shared this video with some of the young adults who are always looking at opportunities and examples of self determination. I have been asked about this specific videos accessibility. Is it possible that this be made available to those who need captioning to truly understand the wonderful message of this video? thank you
Totally fascinating. Especially the explanation about the leg tapping, never had any of my deaf-blind friends use that when doing tactile terping; makes sense though. Thank yall :)
Really interesting and it totally makes sense that this would add a lot to communication if you rely on touch. Thanks for the vlog, interesting stuff! :-)
Thanks to both of u guys! As a former hknc staff, It s a wonderful mode of your communication I d like to learn about as its important and natural as well! Looking forward to learn more from you guys! :) maryann sossong
wow so interesting i never seen any deaf blind who able to communicate with other deaf blind with move face that is new to me ! i am deaf i can tell when move on face alike bitter or serious or something and move on nose i can notice cause i grow up full asl whole in my life i have no idea if i become blind it sound alike impossible when i saw you on tube finally i learn something that are possible
I noticed that AJ tends to "mirror sign". For example, she always finger spells with both hands at the same time.And if a sign typically uses only one hand, like "and", "for", "few" and "know" she still signs it with both hands. Is that part of the DB linguistic patterns?
I am very glad that I saw this vlog. I have usher syndrome. I learned something about Pro-Tactile, really new world for me. Bless both of you.
Great! Teh different forms of communication are knowledgeable
impressive. Thanks for sharing.
The different types of communication are informative and knowledgeable and impressive. Thanks for sharing.
Love it! As a tactile hard of hearing person (learned ASL age 25), I immediately got it (hand tapping, like a yes, that's right, hmmmm, yeah). What was new was learning that the touch also helps with knowing what's going on with the speaker, It would definitely help with turn taking. You are a great team! Thanks!
I can't believe I tried turning up my volume despite knowing what I clicked on
same
Same LOL because I thought it would be a person explaining how to do it 😂
Wow! I'm amazed with how you both can communicate with each other. It's an inspirational video.
I have joined sign language now for 4 years and have new deaf blind friend to visit. I cannot thank you enough for your series so help me begin to communicate with her. Keep up the good work! Penelope
You both are awesome. This is just the beginning of something so beautifully contagious!
I teach ASL to hearing kids. I'm Deaf. Teaching PT has been ... I would call, a blessing. Not in a religious sense, but an informative, well-rounded sense, especially for kids who had no idea that there were successful Deaf folk in the world, MUCH LESS successful Deaf-blind folks! This wasn't around when I grew up with ASL. My signs were from the 50s, like the people who taught the people I learned from, and I was raised to believe DB folk used signs letter-for-Letter. To have an honest, truthful, educational way to introduce Deaf-blind communication (pro-tactile) to hearing kids (who just met a Deaf person for the first time very recently) is such a gift to offer our future leaders, waitresses, customer service workers, teachers, lawyers (bosses?), feels like such a privilege! It's not just about "adjusting" Deaf communication (ASL) to meet the needs of those who are Deaf-blind, but a language and syntax entirely separate (but equal to) from ASL that still provides the same information and access to the visual components of sighted responses (mouth open, nod, or shaking the head, or describing 3-dimensional space, is both exciting and illuminating to both the Deaf world AND the hearing world! Thank you for this (older) introduction! I'm excited to share this video with future generations!
Question: I know ASL changes/adds/adjusts signs from one generation to the next, and when we add TECHNOLOGY (ie: video calls with one hand holding a phone, turning two-handed signs into singular-handed signs, mainl y for clarity) then ASL gets tossed into a RAPIDLY changing word salad ... my question: has PT gone through similar changes??
Edits: typos.... oops!
Thank you so much for posting this. I am newly deafened two years, but grew up with Deaf friends. I had seen a student at the school I went to last year who is Deaf and Blind but has a little view area. I also have another Deaf friend who also works with a Deaf Blind program in Canada here, but could not really explain to me how the communication worked. He was trying to demonstrate it with me, but I could not grasp it. This is great to see. I am excited to watch other postings from you both.
Suggestion: if you add the transcript to youtube, it'll show up in closed captioning so be more easily accessible.
Jelica and aj - as always, pioneers in the field! Thank you for putting a name and recognition to the techniques that we have been using from within the community for so long. Bringing this to the general public through your extensive knowledge and effervescent personalities will surely make a great impact. Thanks and keep on keeping on! All the best from the other coast, Susie
This is so inspirational... Wow! I'm learning a lot from you gal! You are truly making a difference in many deaf blind people's lives and our lives too!
Thank you both for sharing this introduction to PT and allowing those of us who are not in Seattle to learn from you and incorporate into our daily lives with others. I will post this on our DB Member Section Listserv for all to view and hopefully subscribe. THANK YOU again for sharing.
I received the transcription! Thanks Aj & Jelica! You both have taught me more awareness! Thank you, you both are an inspiration! Thank you, I look forward to more vlog coming soon! I appreciate you for making the time to do this! Many will benefit from your info.
Thank you so much. I met Jellica in GA, and really glad to see ProTactile! Hugs from GA!
Kissfist your vlog! Thank you ladies I look forward to your next vlogs, this will help me communicate with my friend when I see her....
Great video! You both are the best. Read many many articles about you both. GREAT JOB!
You rock the non-blind world as I learned so much as I felt your tactile via your valuable information! I want to learn more about your sociocultural sensitivity relate to blind's communication naturally. Thanks so much for sharing!
You rock! I never have seen someone posting a UA-cam video of someone with another deafblind individual signing through tactile sign language. Finally, I caught a beauty of this Pro-Tactile! I might fly to Seattle this summer for International DB or something.
it is excellent educating to any people about the DeafBlind Way. Kudos! both of you did good job for educating. I am sure the people will respect and get more sensitive toward the DeafBlind people after you educate us.
That's great vlogs about The DeafBlind Way. I am tactile deaf interpreter and my husband is having Ushers and being deafblind, so far. My husband always tapped his hands on my hands or arms. It is really related to all deafblind people that i know. Your Vlogs is much helpful and make me and other tactile interpreter to understand why and what is PT means to us. That s wonderful. Thumbs Up!
THIS IS HUGE! Turn-taking at the sub-lexical level... From a phonological perspective they are sharing each other's articulators to produce "words". Fascinating!
This is terrific! Can't wait to see more!!!!
Thank you for the video. I am definitely using this in my CDI training class next week! Look forward to more.
This was great...effective communication is so spiritual. Thank you so much for sharing.
aj & Jelica-You Rock!!!!! Thank you for your energetic presentation.
Thank you for sharing and educating us on modes of communication that we just wouldn't know about. Really enjoyed learning. Thank you
Your video presentation was wonderful to watch! The fluidity was like watching a synchronized ballet of communication! Very cool!
Beautiful, I am so looking forward for a copy of the English transcription! From Australia with love :)
Wonderful! Great information. Looking forward to future videos!!
Jelica & AJ!!!
I am sooooo happy you did this video! Tactile Signing is exactly what I have been trying to introduce to the deaf community and Interpreters. However, I had not seen anyone use "Pro Tactile" before. That is really cool! I also like the idea of signing with both hands so that others can see (if they can) what you are tactile signing to the other person!
So excited to be able to pass this on to fellow interpreters, PT is such an important tool for everyone to have in their toolbox! Thanks for sharing!
Wow.. You two are fantastic. so much energy and information.
Thank you for sharing the info on PT and I look forward to "seeing" more.
Keep smiling and laughing, you two are terrific together.
Wonderful -- can't wait for more. THANK YOU!!!
I cant wait for more videos! I am hearing, but sign and am involved in the deaf community. This will be an interesting new experience! Already subscribed! Ready for the next vlog!
Awesome vlog I am looking forward to more. You ladies are great!
Excellent!!! Can't wait for more... Thanks.
Hello. I'm totally blind and want to communicate/ learn more about ASL. I have a friend who's deaf that lives in the building I do. So I'm blind and hearing and she's sighted and deaf so needing to figure out the best way to communicate! Any suggestions?
+Support Circle for all tactile sign language.
Support Circle for all I am two years late, so you've probably worked it out already, but if not I think typing may work well. You're able to type and she's able to see, so that would work if you cannot use tactile sign
A deaf person could use text to speech and a blind person could use speech to text.
What a wonderful post! Thank you both for doing this -- I am looking forward to more!
I am looking forward to more of your Pro-Tactile program/Vlog
Published barely 2 days ago and over 5,000 views?!!?!!! That's AMAZING!! Off to a great start. Can't wait for what's next!
Thanks for sending this link! Very cool! Can't wait to see the next installment.
Very Informative! And, looking forward to your next vlogs as well. :)
Transcript:
Jelica Nuccio: Hello! Welcome to our very first vlog [aj taps Jelica vigorously on the knee and smiles. Both are receiving signs tactually, and their legs are touching] Called...
aj granda: Pro-tactile! We abbreviate that, “P-T”.
Jelica Nuccio: PT! My name is Jelica, and my sign name is a Y across the chest [from shoulder to waist.] [both aj and Jelica are smiling at one another. When aj signs, Jelica listens with one hand and has her other hand on aj’s knee, tapping often to let aj know she is listening, sometimes with more force to signal strong agreement, for example. Both presenters are wearing all black and are signing in front of a blue background.].
aj granda: I am aj granda and my name sign is “aj”.
Jelica Nuccio: Our goal today is to introduce something that has been drawing a lot of attention lately, and that is “PT” [Jelica extends her arms toward aj to invite her to continue].
aj granda: Indeed, PT has been drawing a lot of attention lately. And I want to extend a heartfelt thank you to everyone who has been so supportive, so curious, and so enthusiastic about it. And thank you also for your patience. Jelica and I started developing PT several years ago, and things have been moving fairly slowly. We both have jobs and families, and in general, we have busy lives. But PT has spread across the country and there is a clear demand for more information, so we have finally decided to make this vlog a priority. We plan to post regularly from here on out. [aj is signing with two hands at the same time. For example, In Visual ASL, the sign CURIOUS would be a one-handed sign. aj signs this sign with two hands-one copy for each hand].
Jelica Nuccio: That’s right, aj. And I wanted to add-I am DeafBlind and Ushers. Aj is also DeafBlind and Ushers. We both live in Seattle, and most of the people who have contributed to the development of these practices also live in Seattle. Some come from outside of Seattle as well. We want to thank those people. You might notice that aj and I are taking turns and tapping each other’s knees as we communicate [aj pats Jelica’s knee emphatically]. That is part of PT. Now, aj, can you explain why we call these things “pro-tactile”?
aj granda: Yes, absolutely. Many people have asked me why we call it “pro-tactile”. Well, when we put pro- before another word, we usually mean that we support whatever that second word stands for. Tactile, you might think means tactile reception of signs. So many people assume that what “pro-tactile” means is essentially “support tactile reception”.
Jelica Nuccio: But that’s not it! [aj taps Jelica’s knee hard, two times, in agreement].
aj granda: Right. It doesn’t mean that at all. In the DeafBlind world, people do not all use tactile reception. Many people do, but we are not saying that people have to do that. That’s your decision. Remember what tactile really means is “touch”. “Pro-tactile” really means that we value touch for purposes of communication. During this presentation, Jelica and I have been giving each other tactile feedback the whole time, tapping on each other’s legs, and hands, and shoulders, and arms. That is pro-tactile.
Jelica Nuccio: Yes, and when you start from there-from a place of valuing touch for communication, this leads you to the DeafBlind way. So for example, Deaf people communicate a lot using facial expressions and the particular ways that they do that is part of their culture [aj taps emphatically on Jelica’s knee]. Even if one Deaf person uses Visual ASL, and the other one does not, they are still both visual people, who respond to visual cues as communications. We know there is a lot of diversity in our community in terms of communication, and that is fine. The only thing that matters is touch. Without a mutual understanding of the value of touch, there can be no communication. [Jelica points to aj’s hand, where it is tapping excitedly on her knee]. What aj is doing right now is a perfect example. That is how I know that she is listening and how she feels about what I am saying. When Deaf, sighted people communicate with each other, they know that the other person is listening because they nod their heads, their jaw might go slack in amazement, their eyes might widen. DeafBlind people miss out on that kind of information [aj continues to tap on Jelica’s knee enthusiastically, and also signs YES repeatedly on Jelica’s knee]. Hearing people say “hmmmmmm...” when they are listening to one another and this accomplishes the same function as facial expressions for Deaf people. But when Deaf people are talking to hearing people, they don’t attend to those sorts of noises. They focus on the hearing person’s facial expressions and body language and that is how they establish a connection with them. That is how they get a sense of who that person is and how they can relate to them. Deaf people have visible ways of doing that. Hearing people have audible ways of doing that. Being pro-tactile means recognizing that DeafBlind people have tactile ways of doing the same things. When aj taps my leg in certain ways at certain times, it tells me something about what kind of person she is and I have a sense of how we are relating to one another. Touch is our way of being present with one another. It’s about touch. It’s that simple!
aj granda: Yes, although, its simplicity can be deceiving. To reiterate what Jelica has just said--- you can see that I am nodding my head right now. Does Jelica know that I am nodding my head? How do you know?
Jelica Nuccio: Head nodding is not natural. [aj taps Jelica’s knee rapidly several times]. That [pointing to aj’s hand] is natural.
aj granda: [nods head and taps Jelica’s knee in the same rhythm]. The head nodding and knee- tapping match. They serve the same function [Jelica nods and smiles at the camera]. If you’re going to nod your head, you have to tap on the knee of the person you are nodding at the same time. Otherwise, they don’t know you are agreeing with them. That is the kind of thing that allows us to share information with one another, and that is being pro-tactile is all about. One way I like to explain PT is to compare it to using a TTY. You might remember what that was like-when the person you were talking with would type and type and type, and you already knew what they were saying, you already had that information. In person, you would just tell them, “Yeah, I know that already,” but the way the TTY was set up, you couldn’t interrupt, so you just had to sit there and wait until they were done. Finally, after what seemed like an unbearably long time, you would see the letters, “G-A” at which point you would tell the person, “Yeah, I already knew that. You didn’t have to tell me.” So the constraints of the technology made for some really frustrating and inefficient interactions.
Well, before PT, DeafBlind communication was like that. Interactions were limited and we didn’t have access to all of the cues that make things smoother and more efficient. Pro-tactile communication is immediate. Turn-taking is seamless. There are no awkward time lags or frustrating constraints. Information is received when it is produced, and there is a constant stream of information coming from the person you are talking to---like now, how Jelica is touching my knee and giving me constant feedback. It’s fantastic!
Jelica Nuccio: And these ways of communicating feel natural very quickly. So you might be asking yourself why PT didn’t happen sooner. Well, the reason is that hearing and Deaf people have been dominant in our community until now. They thought that they were the ones with all of the knowledge and expertise about us, and we thought that was true. But that meant that we had to try to do things the sighted way. That is why we were under so much stress, why we felt that we were slow in learning things, and why we were always the last to know what was going on. For example, if a sighted person was doing something and a DeafBlind person was waiting to talk to them, the sighted person would say, “Hold on.” Then they would drop the DeafBlind person’s hand and leave them standing there, not knowing what was going on. They might say, “I’ll explain later.” That is not natural for us. If those two people were pro-tactile, then the DeafBlind person would be able to leave their hand on the hand of the sighted person while they did whatever they needed to do, and the DeafBlind person would know what was going on the whole time. Pro-tactile is inclusive---it allows us to be involved in what is going on when it is going on. For example, if a person is having a conversation with their friend, they don’t have to tell you, “I’m talking to my friend, I’ll tell you about it later.” They can just invite you to observe the conversation tactually. So one of the basic ideas behind the pro-tactile movement is that we can be involved in our environments without interpreters describing everything to us after the fact. We can feel things for ourselves. Everyone likes to watch what other people are doing and what other people are saying to each other. Human beings are eavesdroppers, and DeafBlind people are no exception.
aj granda: I agree with everything you’ve said, Jelica. And I want to emphasize: Pro-Tactile is a philosophy that guides action in everyday life. It is a socio-cultural movement that is affecting personal, political, and one more thing-what was it?
Jelica Nuccio: And linguistic!
aj granda: Yes! And Linguistic dimensions of our everyday lives.
Jelica Nuccio: Yes, that is just a very brief introduction to the meaning of “pro-tactile”. From here, we will have a series of vlog posts. The first one will be an in-depth discussion of “backchanneling”. Following that, we will talk about TASL (not TSL). And those are just our first topics. We plan to post many more vlogs in the near future. We will be talking about all of the different aspects of pro-tactile philosophy---its personal, political, and linguistic implications.
We will talk about how pro-tactile practices can affect your work environment, your relationships with other people, and more.
aj granda: For now, we’re going to have to end the vlog. But in our next appearance, we will explain backchanneling. We will be giving you some examples, and show you how to do it yourselves. After that, we’ll be talking about TASL, and we will go from there. We are glad to have this opportunity to introduce ourselves to you, and give you a brief introduction to pro- tactile philosophy. Thank you to you all, and we are so excited to share this with you.
Jelica Nuccio: Wait! There is one last thing. Pro-tactile practices are for everyone. Deaf people can be pro-tactile if they communicate the DeafBlind way. Hearing people can be pro-tactile if they communicate the DeafBlind way. Hard of hearing people can too! Pro-tactile is the DeafBlind way, and it is creating a world that is natural for us. That is it. Thank you very much for watching.
aj granda: Thank you everyone for joining us in our new world! Go pro-tactile!!!
Jelica Nuccio: This is aj [name sign: aj], and I am Jelica [name sign: Y across chest from shoulder to hip].
aj granda: Thank you [to Jelica] Bye everyone! [Jelica leans over and rests head on aj’s shoulder. They both smile, and squeeze each other’s hands].
I really enjoyed your vlog. I am also looking forward to more. Thanks!
This is great! I look forward to watching the series of these VLOGS! I'm an interpreter that works with deaf-blind and anything that I could learn to make communication all inclusive then I'm all about it! Thank both of you ladies for this insightful information.
Awesome...looking forward to see more vlogs!
Just wonderful; you two make a great team.
This is fabulous! Thank you for sharing, I can't wait to see what you post next!
Your excitement and positivity is admirable, keep it going- beautiful smiles!
While I opened the video I feel like I feel the feeling being deaf. Bless them
Awesome!! Great vlog ladies!! Keep it up!
This is revolutionary! So so awesome.
Good to see you both. Thanks for making this informative vlog! Wonderful stuff, I like being able to use Pro-Tactile!
Congrats for your first clog in here! Thank you for giving us a lesson of PT. wonderful! Way to go, Jelica and AJ.
Thanks for sharing! When I work with Deaf/Bind, I'm always amazed!
I just heard of this a month ago from an ITP student - so excited to see and learn more!!!
I can't wait to learn from u and ur videos I am look forward to it
LOVE! I am SO subscribed. AND sharing on FB. Want everyone to see this!
Thank you so much for this vlog! I am looking forward to more. I love how this conveys information so naturally. The first time I saw it discussed, it made me think "Of course! Why haven't we been doing this all along?!"
Can't wait for more Vlogs, this was informative and inspiring! Thank you so much.
marvelous! Every each person have their way as we need to respect you also. I'm born deaf. Smile.
Love this so much. Missing the DB Seabeck retreat. Hope to make it next year and learn more PT!
Wow Beautiful I am looking forward to watching ur more vlogs
Champ. Thank you for this vlog. DeafBlind gain - tapping your leg Keep going we need this info and your guidance
that is GREAT i glad that your first vlog for DeafBlind i will pass to my friends keep work up thumb up!!
PAH!!! Way to Go AJ and Jelica!!! Keep it up ahead smile
excellent! Hi AJ!!! congrats on setting up the vlog and best wishes in your PT efforts! perhaps you want to come visit Rochester, NY?? Workshop maybe? smile. Best, Kim Stefani Kelstone (from CST 1999 Miracle Worker)
Believe me, I never really watch most vlogs more than once, but your vlog I actually went back and watched it again, again. It is very informative and this vlog is really very educational. I just wish both you can get on Oprah TV show or any other TV interviews because it'll help audience to realize all "natural" are on this world just like you said at end! It is true!
EXCELLENT VLOG!!! Keep up the good work and looking forward to more vlogs from you both! Cheers!!! :)
Also you both have amazing facial expressions and mouth movement. Very skilled. Will you discuss that?
Thankyou both for the presentation, really grateful. From Australian Auslan Interpreter Glenda Judd
Fabulous Vlog!!! Thank you for showing HOW Pro-Tactil is used in real life, not just theoretically. Great. Can't wait til the next Vlog!!! _\m/
awesome, look forward to more!
Let you know, that certain Usher Syndrome user do not read subtitle on video that well. While Blind do not able to receive reply to braille from the video's subtitle. So, that's why there is transcript for both them. Hope that help you understand.
that's awesome! thank you for sharing as myself as SSP for any Client would be so helpful look forward to learn more from you two.
Thanks for the Vlog - interesting stuff. Have you come across Social Haptic communication? Similar to PT, but developed in Finland.
Thanks for sharing! I have shared this video with some of the young adults who are always looking at opportunities and examples of self determination. I have been asked about this specific videos accessibility. Is it possible that this be made available to those who need captioning to truly understand the wonderful message of this video? thank you
Totally fascinating. Especially the explanation about the leg tapping, never had any of my deaf-blind friends use that when doing tactile terping; makes sense though. Thank yall :)
Awesome! Thank u for sharing!
This is AWESOME!
More vlogs, please!
I am a ssp and I am always look for a way to become a better ssp.
The determination of life is beautiful
Really interesting and it totally makes sense that this would add a lot to communication if you rely on touch. Thanks for the vlog, interesting stuff! :-)
I'm so excited to learn more from you! I subscribed you st this moment!
I'm glad that I saw this vlog too. I really enjoy to watch and learn about Deafblind way. I'm not deafblind but I'm deaf lady :) Keep it up ahead ♡
Thanks to both of u guys! As a former hknc staff, It s a wonderful mode of your communication I d like to learn about as its important and natural as well! Looking forward to learn more from you guys! :) maryann sossong
More posts! Great work :)
I love it! I'm glad to see more coming videos up :D
very clever; I notice that when you are in agreement, you "pat" on the leg.
This is wonderful!
AWESOME! Keep it up!
Fascinating to watch :)
Great vlog, thanks for sharing! :)
Interesting, indeed! How can we subscribe so that we will not miss the series?
GREAT VLOG!!!!!!!
What a wonderful vlog! I just have one question. Suppose we were both standing up, how can I indicate head-nodding?
wow so interesting i never seen any deaf blind who able to communicate with other deaf blind with move face that is new to me ! i am deaf i can tell when move on face alike bitter or serious or something and move on nose i can notice cause i grow up full asl whole in my life i have no idea if i become blind it sound alike impossible when i saw you on tube finally i learn something that are possible
Will it be captioned? Someone who is Deaf-Blind and a braille user wants to watch it.
I noticed that AJ tends to "mirror sign". For example, she always finger spells with both hands at the same time.And if a sign typically uses only one hand, like "and", "for", "few" and "know" she still signs it with both hands. Is that part of the DB linguistic patterns?
Where can I learn this online?