What a team! Thank you so much for such clear instructions on how to get better action from our casting. This makes so much sense to me. I was riveted to these videos, pen in hand and making notes regarding the removal of the loop through to making the tapered leader. Great job!
Can’t thank Brian enough for all his instructional videos. I called the shop and he walked me through building a leader for my 7WT streamer rig. Bought the materials from the online shop, watched the videos, cut the loop, tied up my new leader and spent the weekend enjoying better casts and presentations.
Once again Bryan an informative easy to understand video explaining the "Energy transfer" and "Contact" fly fishing. Most enjoyable for me Thanks. WayneO
Brilliant! I appreciate this video as it confirms my years of practice with the use of the attached butt section with a nail knot and soon to be snell knot after clipping off that welded loop a d the three part leader recipe as it simplifies the construction of leader. The video topics, quality and explanation delivery the message like a balanced leader delivers the fly to the fish. Cheers!
Man, I’m like a biscuit soaking up all this MRO gravy!! It would be cool if y’all sold species and fly line wt specific leader kits, like a redfish specific kit in an 8wt. Or maybe you do? I know I know, fly line choice has an effect on what leader material should be used. Thanks for another excellent and informative video!👍🏻
Nice video Brian, have you ever fished Argentina? Quite similar in some ways. I have not fished Montana for over 20 years already but I want to come back I hope soon if COVID aloud me Thanks
So after the snell knot connecting the fly line to the butt section, what knot is being used to connect the sections thereafter? Are you still using snell knots to connect each subsequent section on down the leader? Thank You! I appreciate you!
Please send any and all questions directly to Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help. That's what he does! You can e-mail him or call him. Thanks!
Brian, when you say "I dont know what 40 pound is." , I take that to mean "40 pound" does not describe the stiffness and mass of the material, it would just simply describe the general strength of the material, correct? So the trick is learning the different brands and types of materials available and using the appropriate one for that fly line. Am I getting this? Thanks!
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian at the shop directly and he will be happy to answer your questions. Call him or send him an e-mail and he will set you straight.
I prefer factory loops. I murder leaders and would end up snipping away at the first 4 feet of the fly line. I do remember "dog on a loop" technique of using heavy mono to make a nail knot and then 3 inches of mono to a perfection loop.
With the methods shown here, you really would never change leaders. If you need to, this is by far the better method: ua-cam.com/video/8QKCXstJw30/v-deo.html
Can you comment on the differences between using mono vs fluoro in your leader construction? I fish the Keys a lot and like to use Ande Fluoro from butt to tippet with the exception of Mason 16 class tippet on my tarpon rigs. I do know some guides who only use mono in their leaders. They think the knots tighten up better. Interested in your thoughts. Thanks.
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian directly through the shop and he'll be happy to help. You can e-mail him or call him directly. He doesn't monitor here but does answer e-mails and phones 7 days a week.
From what I have learned, monofilaments lifetime is terminal. Around 10 cycles of reaching near its breaking strength, it will being to fail at around 70% of its rated strength. Have you, flip or anyone else using this technique ever had your butt section give up on you after a long bout of using the same piece of monofilament?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions directly over to Brian at the shop. Send him an email or give him a call and he’ll be happy to help/answer.
A quick question. When fishing for snook, tarpon or any other abrasive lipped fish we put a heavier leader than our line. When fly fishing, should something similar be done after the tippet?
🌴 Hi Brian, my biggest problem is when tying the snell knot to the fly line the heavy floacarbon is so stiff it doest want to wrap around the fly line I actually had to use a tooth pick as a guide to wrap it around , and then when yo do get the knot finished it doesn’t slide thru the tip guide smoothly I’ve put UV epoxy to try and smooth it but it’s a speed bump , I’ve got a 9- 10 wt wt fwd floating line with a 50 # butt section , 🫤 what diameter and brand ( coartland ) floracarbon should I be using for my 9-10 wt ? 🤔
That i have full confidence in. Lefty and Stu Apt also are in that group. These fellas can almost walk on water. I have used the line end loop for years but this sure makes sense to me. I intend to chsnge over one of my rigs shortly which will be one of my gill rigs. I generally keep my leaders to 8ft or less and many times i just use a straight leader of 6# maybe 6 to 7ft. Even an old dog like me can improve. Every time i cast a rubber spider to a gill i am thinking of red or speckled trout.
One of the issues with floating line is that, well, it doesn't float. I've noticed there is a filament inside the structure and I'm assuming it absorbs water over time if there is a nick or you cut the loop off. Have you tested this theory in the past? If it's absorbing water it could add weight in the head section of the line. Any thoughts?
Brian/MRO, thank you once again for another great and informative video. Y'all are the 10 ring on leader building and I'm really looking forward to that book. It will be the leader building bible, I just know it.
Thanks for this video. Clipping off the "hateful" loop and attaching a direct leader butt section makes sense to me. What does not make sense about this system is what butt leader one should choose with a given fly line. Obviously if one is using the FP bright orange line you have provided a table but what about Scientific Angler Amplitude Bonefish 8wt or Rio or ... What is the formula for choosing the correct butt section with any given fly line? Do you try to match the diameter of the line to the butt or is there more to it?
Tried without a loop for a year. Didn't see what all the anti-loop fuss was about. Went back to perfection loops. I kinda feel like it's like adding a two inch high spoiler on a car to get .56 more mpg. I have no doubt that it makes a difference, but I also doubt that for most fly fishers, that they can even tell a difference. I mean, I guess it helps if you're throwing big flies.
Or if you are looking to be super accurate? In that game, .56 might be a big deal? As Brian and Flip say often...."This is Umerica". You can use loops if you want. Apparently some don't prefer them. We don't judge so thanks for being here and please stay tuned.
Just a question. “Flip is working with Cortland building this line and the leader material” so why does Cortland still put a loop on these heavier weight lines? I’m just asking a fair question, loops have come a long way from the fire iterations. True there is still an increase in diameter but it’s very marginal in lines such as Airflo. My question is how many times / years can i really expect to leave this “new butt section of mono” tied on and not have any issues, second how much can I then loose on the end of my fly line to not also effect the cast. Im not trying to outright say no but I’d like to hear some answers to the other side of the loop discussion which so far seems to be nill. I always like to hear both sides in order to make an informed decision. Love your videos and really appreciate what you’re dong for the fly fishing community. I was a kid when i got to go fishing with my dad and guys like Flip (Cecil Keith, Albright, and Knowles) and man I still day dream about those days now. Tight lines brother
Thanks for watching! Feel free to send your questions over to Brian at the shop. He is always happy to chat and answer your questions. Feel free to call him or e-mail him.
I just don’t trust myself hacking into my SA Amplitude MPX big money fly line … so I’ll swing by there and hopefully with y’all’s help … cut that loop 🙈👊🏻💪🏻
I don’t know man. As someone who consistently changes leader, loop was gift from god. Compared to old days when I used to nail knot the leader, I can’t agree with ideas of cutting loops. The convenience and usefulness of loop outweigh the ones without in my experience. Difference in energy transfer is also negligible in my opinion. If you are good caster, you will find no difference to be honest
As Brian says here, and many other videos, if you are changing leaders often, stick with loops! There is most definitely a difference in energy transfer though and has nothing to do with casting ability. Basic physics.
After watching Brian's original video on the snell knot I clippped all loops and switched to this method and its what I use for tarpon/snook fishing .. never had an issue on fish up to 100+ pounds.
Please send any and all questions directly to Brian or the folks at the shop. You can e-mail them or call them. They do not monitor the comments here but of course monitor the shop every day. They will be happy to help.....that's what they do!
Hi. Did you ever put the fly line to butt section diameter table here or am i just not seeing it - interested in like the 5wts and below please. TIA. Oh and do i get a free MRO cap for asking the question :)
So is the idea that the butt section is long enough that if you lose a couple inches when retying the mid section the line will need replacing by the time the butt section is too short? Or do you not mind cutting off a couple more inches from the fly line if you need to retie the whole thing now and then?
I hate to sound like a dullard but I am not understanding this video at all. Is there a chart that compares all the different monos fly lines etc? Thank you
Hi! I am recently returning to fly fishing after 30 years. I used to fish for trout but am now Interested in fly fishing for European sea Bass( UK based). Am I out of date but we used to sew in our leaders & then add a tippet. Is this not done now. As I say, 30 years ago & loads has happened since then! 😂
@@JasonReilich Please contact Brian directly through the shop and he will be happy to help. You can email him or call him. He does not monitor comments here but of course does monitor the shop. Thanks!
My question is... The Butt section leader is not permanent, and you will need to change it (nicks, sun damage, etc...). How far back can someone keep clipping the fly line before the factory taper becomes useless?
OK, say your butt section is 12”. My leader may last all season, or more, but if I need to tie on a new leader, I only use/cut off about 3” of butt section. So the butt lasts about 4 leader changes. On one of my lines the butt section is now only 4” long for example. When I tie on a new butt, I only use about 2” of line. Anyway, this is a long way of saying that I wear out the line before I cut into the fly line enough to affect it’s performance.
thank you for breaking it down....it makes since to me now ......fly is a totally new animal for me lots an lots to learn love it.......my hook up to catch ratio seems to be greater with my fly rod compared to the ol spinner.
Thanks MRO! I noticed you supplied suggested butt section diameters for 2 brands of line in video information when I touched the title. Really appreciate that also. 👍👍 Have a great weekend! 🎣
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions directly to Brian at the shop via e-mail, or you can give him a call. He's always happy to help and answer.
That's not possible mister Flipp is a scientist who also like fishing? Is fly fishing explanations involved physics, gravity is talking about transfers of energy then he goes to percentages, velocity, catapult, spreading of wings...wow for a moment I thought that mister Fill was about to send a rocket to Mars
Awesome words a lot. I think leader is FlyLine. Because it’s same effect. Should be transmitting a power. From flyline, for a fly. Thanks a lot. Super nice channel 😄👍
I am just learning, I grew up here in north Arkansas right on the White River. I’m now 45 and learning fly fishing. The man helping me told me to cut the loop… it also goes through the guides so much easier! This is 100 info!
Really enjoyed this and the video of Flip cutting the loop off and explaining the whole energy thing. I'm hoping this information will help me with leader construction. Clouser's, big hairy floating divers and sliders are my mainstream flies. Going for Smallies on an often windy, semi-fast moving, clear river is my game. Leaders have always been my nemesis. When is your book coming out?
Loved the videos, but, I have not seen anyone discuss if all of the information presented here is for BOTH floating and sinking line. I'd hate to cut of my loop on my sinking line, specifically the airflo streamer wf7/8 250g line, only to find out that was a mistake. You do great job, learned a lot, can you advise on this?? BTW if this is "common knowledge" I'm a newbie.
I am making progress, contact versus non-contact explanation was helpful but still confused around matching the "stiffness" between the flyline and the butt section to "get that perfect bell curve". Suggestion...build a few combinations that are clearly not the same stiffness so we can see what those look like and understand the process how you determine they are similar in stiffness. Also, You threw something in at the very end "if your flyline has an aggressive taper you may have to go stiffer on the butt section". I think this deserves some examples and more clarity. Appreciate the help!
Many other videos here that go into that stuff but will pass along to Brian for sure. Also, feel free to call him at the shop if you have specific questions. He’s always happy to help!
I’ve been flyfishing for 55 years now, and I’ve always tied a butt section onto the fly line. When loops started appearing on fly lines I had purchased I kind of laughed and wondered why I’d want to have a hinge in my line/leader and also why I would want a knot, or really 2 knots, that would not go through the guides easily. It’s never occurred to me to use the loop. The only thing I do differently is I use a nail not instead of his Snell knot, and for my tarpon rods, I use an Albright with a couple of half hitches backed up against it, to smooth it out. Also, it’s just not that much faster if at all to do a loop to loop connection instead of a 3 to 4 turn blood knot.
You mentioned the formula for butt leader attached to fly line works with any modern fly rod. I'm presuming graphite, carbon wrapped graphite, etc. What about fiberglass rods? I have 2 Shakespeare '60 era rods in 4WT and 6WT. If using today's floating fly lines with the old fiberglass rods, will the contact formula be the same? Will the overall performance of the cast be different?
Thanks for being here. Please send those questions over to Brian at the shop and he’ll be happy to help. Call him or email him and he’ll get you answers.
getting into the weeds, I am guessing the above line recommendations is for a floating line only? I recall another video with Brian and Jeremy on the Madison river saying that he starts with UG Maxima 25# maxima. In this video Brian says you will need a much higher diameter than 25#. He mentioned 7 wt in both so just confirming that stuff gets all changed up when you use sinking lines? Thanks guys
I have not Fly fished in 20 years, I recently did some YouTubing to get the brain flowing on what materials I will need to get going again. When I saw the line coming with a loop I instantly didn't like the idea over a nail knot or Flips snelling method. I got into fly fishing in Florida by watching Flip and Sandy on WCC and going to seminars in the early 90s. I 100% agree and Im also excited not to have to taper down as much or deal with tapering down with multiple loop to loops.
Learned same method when I was you in past in late 90’s when my dad was president of fly fishing club up in Washington state.. one guy taught those same methods.. obviously to me that guy learned from flip .. I did 2 test between snell and loop.. snell gave beautifully curl, landed flies quietly compared to loop and it end up like sling shot and make the flies drop straight down
Your buddy flip sealed the deal when he put the blood knot in his mouth to prevent the burning when pulled tight. Real McCoy. Down east for salmon, we use heavy buts for leaders to carry in the wind. Ive tapered them to almost microscopic, 22 size hooks. I tie the fly after I attach it to the the leader, tippet. Or leave it all heavy if the fly is hugh. In the day hooks were called nails. 4, 5, 6 inch nails. Hence the nail knot to join hook, without eye to tippet. I rise alot of fish on the blood knot, no hook required. Would like a link to your snell knot please. I just tie a simple knot and 5 half hitches to join to cast line. Great job guys
Question your leader on a 10-11-12wt saltwater with sinking tip line is still 4 foot? Even the diameter is .027"-0.29" lets say a 0.26" on a 10wt will it hold a big saltwater fish of 60 pounds for example? or you would make it even stronger on the butt section? Thanks! and great video by the way
Nothing was said about fly line diameter to butt diameter. Do they need to match up or drop down a few thou in diameter. And 2 what about a 12 in. Shock toppit. Is this just added on to the tippet or is the middle section eliminated?
SURE WOULD APPRECIATE THE GUIDELINE/SPREAD SHEET LAYING OUT MATCHES BETWEEN VARIUOS WEIGHT FLY LINES AND BUTT SECTION DIAMETERS ETC THANKS FOR THESE VIDEOS THEY ARE REALLY WELL THOUGHT OUT BILL
You'd have to check with the folks at the shop about that. We don't have that information here. Don't think so but not sure. Send them an e-mail or give them a call and they will be happy to help.
Brian - does it make much difference, if any, what material you use for your tippet, ie: regular mono vs Mason hard mono or an equivalent diameter fluorocarbon?
It certainly does as he talks about often. Best to call or e-mail him at the shop though with questions as he doesn't hang out here much. He'll be happy to help.
is there any problem with cutting the loops off and just tying the tapered leader on the fly line and not piecing it all together? So its the fly line to leader but tying it instead of using the loops. Thanks!
Amazing video! I've been fly fishing my whole life and never much thought into any of this. I simply cannot believe how much this improved my casting OVERNIGHT. I'll never buy tapered leaders in a pack again. Can't wait to cast my 8/9wt rods, with heavier setups, next month for Michigan salmon/steelhead/b. trout.
Is there a way to figure out the best line to tie on before Tying it to the fly line so I don’t have to cut it 3 4 5 time to find the best match the bell. Does bell Curve check has to be done when tied to the fly line?
Hi there! Have been watching a few of your leader videos lately and I have a question cross comparing 2 vids. Here Brian says Maxima ultra green (MUG) is too flexible for streamer butt sections, but in "Build Perfect Nymph & Streamer Leaders" Brian recommends using MUG for the butt section of sink tip leaders. Why is this? Is it a revelation had since that older video? Or is it a difference between longer FLOATING LINE leaders and shorter SINK TIP/FULL SINK leaders? Thanks in advance for clearing that up!
AND another relevant question: where in this leader formula might I insert a tippet ring (for preservation)? After the mid section just before the tippet perhaps?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions over to Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help and answer. He can be reached by phone or by e-mail. Phone is always best.
I’m from Colorado and as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video I thought ‘holy crap, a John Gierach sighting!’ I loved and collected all his books in the 80’s and 90’s. I didn’t realize he had a twin. Lol Thanks for all this information!
Just to speculate for a bit: I suspect that when Flip wants to transfer all the energy through the transactions between leader or line sections, both the mass an stiffness matters. I think this is analogous to sending electrical signals down transmission lines through different segments, one needs to match the impedance across section. Or for the opposite, one mismatches impedances in layers of sound proofing walls spun that the energy doesn’t transfer through the wall. I suspect that the impedance of a fly line is a combination of its mass per inch with its stiffness. Would be a fun mechanical engineering student’s senior project
This is exactly how I think of it. Your transferring a wave down a line. Any change in impedance will have some of the wave (energy) transfer through, and some transfer back. I'm electrical/physics, but mechanical waves are basically the same as electrical in transmission lines. Instead of electrical impedance, you have mechanical impedance. Think of a rope attached to a chain midway. If you send a wave down, it hits the change in impedance (connection between chain and rope) and that will reflect some of the wave, and some will transfer through the chain. You can find demos of this. I've been thinking about trying to model this to see the exact difference. Because mathematically your right, if you can match the impedance, you can transfer all the energy down the line
Howdy Friends - at 22:25 Brian mean’t to say 1-2’ - not inches - Sorry about that!
I knew what he meant.lol. no links for other videos. Brian pointing at air was funny tho.
What a team! Thank you so much for such clear instructions on how to get better action from our casting. This makes so much sense to me. I was riveted to these videos, pen in hand and making notes regarding the removal of the loop through to making the tapered leader. Great job!
@@ronowen6324 Thanks so much for watching and feel free to contact Brian at the shop if any questions.
@@ronowen6324 Thanks for watching. Feel free to contact Brian at the shop if you have any questions.
Can’t thank Brian enough for all his instructional videos. I called the shop and he walked me through building a leader for my 7WT streamer rig. Bought the materials from the online shop, watched the videos, cut the loop, tied up my new leader and spent the weekend enjoying better casts and presentations.
Thanks for watching and thanks for sharing. He's always happy to help!
I’m about to do the same, what was you leader build materials and diameters?
Once again Bryan an informative easy to understand video explaining the "Energy transfer" and "Contact" fly fishing. Most enjoyable for me Thanks. WayneO
Thanks for watching.
Thanks Brian for all the great knowledge/information on fly fishing,Greatly Appreciated!!
Thanks so much for being here. We appreciate in return.
Brilliant! I appreciate this video as it confirms my years of practice with the use of the attached butt section with a nail knot and soon to be snell knot after clipping off that welded loop a d the three part leader recipe as it simplifies the construction of leader. The video topics, quality and explanation delivery the message like a balanced leader delivers the fly to the fish. Cheers!
Thanks for being here.
Man, I’m like a biscuit soaking up all this MRO gravy!! It would be cool if y’all sold species and fly line wt specific leader kits, like a redfish specific kit in an 8wt. Or maybe you do? I know I know, fly line choice has an effect on what leader material should be used. Thanks for another excellent and informative video!👍🏻
@@racrx7 Thanks for watching! They can certainly help with species specific. Just give a call!
Always nice to hear one give credit to those others who were our/their teachers. Anything you want to know, you come here. Thanks
Always and with utmost respect. Thanks for watching.
Happy Saturday! Thanks for all the free information. First day of practice was fun and humbling.
Thanks for watching and please stay tuned.
I'm really looking forward to your new book would love to have a autographed copy thank you for your videos keep up the good work
Thanks for watching and please stay tuned.
Good idea, good explanation. Thanks!
Thanks for watching.
Nice video Brian, have you ever fished Argentina? Quite similar in some ways. I have not fished Montana for over 20 years already but I want to come back I hope soon if COVID aloud me
Thanks
Yes, he has fished in Argentina. Hope to see you soon.
So after the snell knot connecting the fly line to the butt section, what knot is being used to connect the sections thereafter? Are you still using snell knots to connect each subsequent section on down the leader?
Thank You! I appreciate you!
Please send any and all questions directly to Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help. That's what he does! You can e-mail him or call him. Thanks!
Brian, when you say "I dont know what 40 pound is." , I take that to mean "40 pound" does not describe the stiffness and mass of the material, it would just simply describe the general strength of the material, correct? So the trick is learning the different brands and types of materials available and using the appropriate one for that fly line. Am I getting this? Thanks!
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian at the shop directly and he will be happy to answer your questions. Call him or send him an e-mail and he will set you straight.
Bonjour, quelle est la pince qu’utilise Flip pallot ? Merci de votre retour et félicitation pour vos vidéos !
Thanks for watching.
So when you retie tippet or mid section how do you not eventually take too much line off the butt section to where it becomes too short
Just re-tie more butt on there! Easy. Feel free to call or e-mail Brian at the shop if any further questions. He's always happy to help.
I prefer factory loops. I murder leaders and would end up snipping away at the first 4 feet of the fly line. I do remember "dog on a loop" technique of using heavy mono to make a nail knot and then 3 inches of mono to a perfection loop.
With the methods shown here, you really would never change leaders. If you need to, this is by far the better method: ua-cam.com/video/8QKCXstJw30/v-deo.html
Can you comment on the differences between using mono vs fluoro in your leader construction? I fish the Keys a lot and like to use Ande Fluoro from butt to tippet with the exception of Mason 16 class tippet on my tarpon rigs. I do know some guides who only use mono in their leaders. They think the knots tighten up better. Interested in your thoughts. Thanks.
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian through the shop and he’ll be happy to help. You can email him or give him a call.
Fish a lot of 10 up to 12 wt lines what is the dia. for the leaders for the cortland material
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian directly through the shop and he'll be happy to help. You can e-mail him or call him directly. He doesn't monitor here but does answer e-mails and phones 7 days a week.
So what advantage does the Snell knot have over the nail knot for the fly line to leader connection? Thank you.
Thanks for watching. Please contact Brian directly through the shop with your questions and he'll be happy to help.
From what I have learned, monofilaments lifetime is terminal. Around 10 cycles of reaching near its breaking strength, it will being to fail at around 70% of its rated strength. Have you, flip or anyone else using this technique ever had your butt section give up on you after a long bout of using the same piece of monofilament?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions directly over to Brian at the shop. Send him an email or give him a call and he’ll be happy to help/answer.
A quick question. When fishing for snook, tarpon or any other abrasive lipped fish we put a heavier leader than our line. When fly fishing, should something similar be done after the tippet?
Yes, that is correct. Feel free to call or e-mail the shop directly if you have any further questions. Thanks.
@@Madriveroutfitters thank you
Can you take a set of calipers and measure the fly line and butt section to ensure they are the same diameter?
No...it's not the diameter that matters.
I have 20lb amnesia. 10lb maxima ultra green then 8 lb maximum ultra green. Can u explain to me the knots to use to build a leader out of this?
Please send your questions directly to the shop and they will be happy to help. You can email them or call them. Thanks.
What would your recommendation be for SA grand slam 8wt be? As far as material and diameter for a permanent butt section. Thanks
Chart in the video description. Feel free to call or email the shop if they can help further. Thanks.
🌴 Hi Brian, my biggest problem is when tying the snell knot to the fly line the heavy floacarbon is so stiff it doest want to wrap around the fly line I actually had to use a tooth pick as a guide to wrap it around , and then when yo do get the knot finished it doesn’t slide thru the tip guide smoothly I’ve put UV epoxy to try and smooth it but it’s a speed bump , I’ve got a 9- 10 wt wt fwd floating line with a 50 # butt section , 🫤 what diameter and brand ( coartland ) floracarbon should I be using for my 9-10 wt ? 🤔
Please send your questions directly to Brian at the shop and he’ll be happy to help. You can email him or give him a call. Thanks.
Flip is one of a hand full of flt fishers that
That i have full confidence in. Lefty and Stu Apt also are in that group. These fellas can almost walk on water. I have used the line end loop for years but this sure makes sense to me. I intend to chsnge over one of my rigs shortly which will be one of my gill rigs. I generally keep my leaders to 8ft or less and many times i just use a straight leader of 6# maybe 6 to 7ft. Even an old dog like me can improve. Every time i cast a rubber spider to a gill i am thinking of red or speckled trout.
@@rayditzenberger9517 Thanks for watching. The man is a legend for sure.
One of the issues with floating line is that, well, it doesn't float. I've noticed there is a filament inside the structure and I'm assuming it absorbs water over time if there is a nick or you cut the loop off. Have you tested this theory in the past? If it's absorbing water it could add weight in the head section of the line. Any thoughts?
Yes. He addresses this exact subject in the second video which was just published, as well as a few others along the way.
Would it be the same for sink tip or sinking line?
No, this is a leader for a floating line.
Can't you smell that smell?
No, UA-cam hasn't added that feature yet.
"a good leader starts in the butt (section)"; my new favorite catch phrase!
Thanks! We are gonna do some t-shirts!!!!
@@Madriveroutfitters 15:15 “snell your butt” has potential too…
It must be a blast to go fishing with you, flip, or lefty. Just to hang out and watch any of you work a river.
Thanks for being here.
Brian/MRO, thank you once again for another great and informative video. Y'all are the 10 ring on leader building and I'm really looking forward to that book. It will be the leader building bible, I just know it.
Thanks for being here and please stay tuned.
Flip's Snell Knot = Your Nailless Nail Knot?
Please send your questions directly to Brian through the shop and he will be happy to answer. Thanks.
Thank you for this video. I’m thinking of learning how to make my own leaders. Would the mid and tippet sizes be the same for a 5wt as a 7wt?
Please contact Brian directly at the shop and he'll be happy to help. Thanks.
Thanks for this video. Clipping off the "hateful" loop and attaching a direct leader butt section makes sense to me. What does not make sense about this system is what butt leader one should choose with a given fly line. Obviously if one is using the FP bright orange line you have provided a table but what about Scientific Angler Amplitude Bonefish 8wt or Rio or ... What is the formula for choosing the correct butt section with any given fly line? Do you try to match the diameter of the line to the butt or is there more to it?
Please send your questions over to Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help. Thanks.
"A good leader starts in the butt"....funny, I tell my wife the same thing.
Thanks for watching.
Tried without a loop for a year. Didn't see what all the anti-loop fuss was about. Went back to perfection loops. I kinda feel like it's like adding a two inch high spoiler on a car to get .56 more mpg. I have no doubt that it makes a difference, but I also doubt that for most fly fishers, that they can even tell a difference. I mean, I guess it helps if you're throwing big flies.
Or if you are looking to be super accurate? In that game, .56 might be a big deal? As Brian and Flip say often...."This is Umerica". You can use loops if you want. Apparently some don't prefer them. We don't judge so thanks for being here and please stay tuned.
Just a question. “Flip is working with Cortland building this line and the leader material” so why does Cortland still put a loop on these heavier weight lines? I’m just asking a fair question, loops have come a long way from the fire iterations. True there is still an increase in diameter but it’s very marginal in lines such as Airflo. My question is how many times / years can i really expect to leave this “new butt section of mono” tied on and not have any issues, second how much can I then loose on the end of my fly line to not also effect the cast. Im not trying to outright say no but I’d like to hear some answers to the other side of the loop discussion which so far seems to be nill. I always like to hear both sides in order to make an informed decision. Love your videos and really appreciate what you’re dong for the fly fishing community. I was a kid when i got to go fishing with my dad and guys like Flip (Cecil Keith, Albright, and Knowles) and man I still day dream about those days now. Tight lines brother
Thanks for watching! Feel free to send your questions over to Brian at the shop. He is always happy to chat and answer your questions. Feel free to call him or e-mail him.
I just don’t trust myself hacking into my SA Amplitude MPX big money fly line … so I’ll swing by there and hopefully with y’all’s help … cut that loop 🙈👊🏻💪🏻
Stop by the shop and they will be happy to help. Thanks for watching.
I don’t know man. As someone who consistently changes leader, loop was gift from god. Compared to old days when I used to nail knot the leader, I can’t agree with ideas of cutting loops. The convenience and usefulness of loop outweigh the ones without in my experience. Difference in energy transfer is also negligible in my opinion. If you are good caster, you will find no difference to be honest
As Brian says here, and many other videos, if you are changing leaders often, stick with loops! There is most definitely a difference in energy transfer though and has nothing to do with casting ability. Basic physics.
After watching Brian's original video on the snell knot I clippped all loops and switched to this method and its what I use for tarpon/snook fishing .. never had an issue on fish up to 100+ pounds.
And you never will. Thanks for backing us up here and please stay tuned.
For the lines that are overweight, like the SA textured bass bug, would you all recommend going by the labeled line wt or with the over wt? Thanks!
Please send any and all questions directly to Brian or the folks at the shop. You can e-mail them or call them. They do not monitor the comments here but of course monitor the shop every day. They will be happy to help.....that's what they do!
Hi. Did you ever put the fly line to butt section diameter table here or am i just not seeing it - interested in like the 5wts and below please. TIA. Oh and do i get a free MRO cap for asking the question :)
Please contact the folks at the shop directly and they will be happy to help. You can email them or call them. We do not have that intel here. Thanks.
So is the idea that the butt section is long enough that if you lose a couple inches when retying the mid section the line will need replacing by the time the butt section is too short? Or do you not mind cutting off a couple more inches from the fly line if you need to retie the whole thing now and then?
@@richpaul6806 Both sound about right! Feel free to call or e-mail Brian at the shop if any further questions.
I hate to sound like a dullard but I am not understanding this video at all. Is there a chart that compares all the different monos fly lines etc? Thank you
Please contact the folks at the shop with any questions and they should be able to help.
Hi! I am recently returning to fly fishing after 30 years. I used to fish for trout but am now Interested in fly fishing for European sea Bass( UK based).
Am I out of date but we used to sew in our leaders & then add a tippet. Is this not done now. As I say, 30 years ago & loads has happened since then! 😂
Thanks for checking with us. Not sure on that but feel free to e-mail Brian at the shop. He may well know and would expect that he does.
I always used a short piece of Amnesia to a perfection loop if I wanted a loop to loop connection of my leader.
ua-cam.com/video/8QKCXstJw30/v-deo.htmlsi=wQEPCJoHR0NyhIXH
What do you recommend for a 5-w fly line for a butt leader I want to cut the loop
@@JasonReilich Please contact Brian directly through the shop and he will be happy to help. You can email him or call him. He does not monitor comments here but of course does monitor the shop. Thanks!
Good info. Thanks! Can you use a tippet ring at the end of the transition so the tippet section can be replaced more easily?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions over to Brian at the shop directly and he'll be happy to answer. Call or e-mail.
yes
My question is... The Butt section leader is not permanent, and you will need to change it (nicks, sun damage, etc...). How far back can someone keep clipping the fly line before the factory taper becomes useless?
Please send your questions directly to Brian at the shop and he’ll be happy to help/answer. Thanks.
OK, say your butt section is 12”. My leader may last all season, or more, but if I need to tie on a new leader, I only use/cut off about 3” of butt section. So the butt lasts about 4 leader changes. On one of my lines the butt section is now only 4” long for example. When I tie on a new butt, I only use about 2” of line. Anyway, this is a long way of saying that I wear out the line before I cut into the fly line enough to affect it’s performance.
Tkank you and what 's about non contact leader ,for dry flies in particular ? I cannot find the video if you have already treated this question .
Stay tuned as much more to come. Feel free to contact Brian at the shop directly though if you need answers now. He's always happy to help.
Does someone know what is the diameter of the end of a Guideline PXE fly line in 8wt?
Please contact the folks at the shop directly and they will be happy to help!
Dat ders the last piece of the puzzle for me. Tippets been too long and butt section to small of a diameter. Thanks for it all.
Thanks for being here and happy to help.
thank you for breaking it down....it makes since to me now ......fly is a totally new animal for me lots an lots to learn love it.......my hook up to catch ratio seems to be greater with my fly rod compared to the ol spinner.
Thanks for watching.
You guys are the best baby!
Thanks for being here.
Thanks MRO! I noticed you supplied suggested butt section diameters for 2 brands of line in video information when I touched the title. Really appreciate that also. 👍👍 Have a great weekend! 🎣
Thanks so much. The stiffness/suppleness matters! Gotta get that bell curve!!!!
I didn’t get those extra videos on building the leaders
Feel free to call or e-mail Brian at the shop if any questions. He's always happy to help.
So don't cut the loop for dry flys or nymphing for trout ?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions directly to Brian at the shop via e-mail, or you can give him a call. He's always happy to help and answer.
That's not possible mister Flipp is a scientist who also like fishing? Is fly fishing explanations involved physics, gravity is talking about transfers of energy then he goes to percentages, velocity, catapult, spreading of wings...wow for a moment I thought that mister Fill was about to send a rocket to Mars
Thanks for watching.
I hate the loop.
I’m pretty sure it creates a lot of drag.
Thanks for watching.
Can you tie flourocarbon to mono butt section?
These two do not recommend it and do not use fluorocarbon at all.
so you think i should cut off the loop on the end of my line?
We would highly suggest calling or emailing the shop for a consult. It greatly depends on what you are doing with the line. Thanks.
Awesome words a lot. I think leader is FlyLine. Because it’s same effect. Should be transmitting a power. From flyline, for a fly. Thanks a lot. Super nice channel 😄👍
Thanks for watching and please stay tuned.
I am just learning, I grew up here in north Arkansas right on the White River. I’m now 45 and learning fly fishing. The man helping me told me to cut the loop… it also goes through the guides so much easier! This is 100 info!
@@Fullchiselchainsawartistry Thanks for watching.
Really enjoyed this and the video of Flip cutting the loop off and explaining the whole energy thing. I'm hoping this information will help me with leader construction. Clouser's, big hairy floating divers and sliders are my mainstream flies. Going for Smallies on an often windy, semi-fast moving, clear river is my game. Leaders have always been my nemesis. When is your book coming out?
Thanks for watching. You’ll have to check with Brian on the book?
Loved the videos, but, I have not seen anyone discuss if all of the information presented here is for BOTH floating and sinking line. I'd hate to cut of my loop on my sinking line, specifically the airflo streamer wf7/8 250g line, only to find out that was a mistake. You do great job, learned a lot, can you advise on this?? BTW if this is "common knowledge" I'm a newbie.
Thanks for watching. Brian does have quite a few videos on sinking lines where he does address this exactly. Let us know if you can’t find them.
I am making progress, contact versus non-contact explanation was helpful but still confused around matching the "stiffness" between the flyline and the butt section to "get that perfect bell curve". Suggestion...build a few combinations that are clearly not the same stiffness so we can see what those look like and understand the process how you determine they are similar in stiffness. Also, You threw something in at the very end "if your flyline has an aggressive taper you may have to go stiffer on the butt section". I think this deserves some examples and more clarity. Appreciate the help!
Many other videos here that go into that stuff but will pass along to Brian for sure. Also, feel free to call him at the shop if you have specific questions. He’s always happy to help!
I’ve been flyfishing for 55 years now, and I’ve always tied a butt section onto the fly line. When loops started appearing on fly lines I had purchased I kind of laughed and wondered why I’d want to have a hinge in my line/leader and also why I would want a knot, or really 2 knots, that would not go through the guides easily. It’s never occurred to me to use the loop. The only thing I do differently is I use a nail not instead of his Snell knot, and for my tarpon rods, I use an Albright with a couple of half hitches backed up against it, to smooth it out. Also, it’s just not that much faster if at all to do a loop to loop connection instead of a 3 to 4 turn blood knot.
Thanks for watching.
You mentioned the formula for butt leader attached to fly line works with any modern fly rod. I'm presuming graphite, carbon wrapped graphite, etc. What about fiberglass rods? I have 2 Shakespeare '60 era rods in 4WT and 6WT. If using today's floating fly lines with the old fiberglass rods, will the contact formula be the same? Will the overall performance of the cast be different?
Thanks for being here. Please send those questions over to Brian at the shop and he’ll be happy to help. Call him or email him and he’ll get you answers.
getting into the weeds, I am guessing the above line recommendations is for a floating line only? I recall another video with Brian and Jeremy on the Madison river saying that he starts with UG Maxima 25# maxima. In this video Brian says you will need a much higher diameter than 25#. He mentioned 7 wt in both so just confirming that stuff gets all changed up when you use sinking lines? Thanks guys
Feel free to call or e-mail Brian directly and he'll be happy to discuss and surely explain. Thanks for watching.
I have not Fly fished in 20 years, I recently did some YouTubing to get the brain flowing on what materials I will need to get going again. When I saw the line coming with a loop I instantly didn't like the idea over a nail knot or Flips snelling method. I got into fly fishing in Florida by watching Flip and Sandy on WCC and going to seminars in the early 90s. I 100% agree and Im also excited not to have to taper down as much or deal with tapering down with multiple loop to loops.
Thanks for watching.
Learned same method when I was you in past in late 90’s when my dad was president of fly fishing club up in Washington state.. one guy taught those same methods.. obviously to me that guy learned from flip .. I did 2 test between snell and loop.. snell gave beautifully curl, landed flies quietly compared to loop and it end up like sling shot and make the flies drop straight down
Thanks for watching.
Your buddy flip sealed the deal when he put the blood knot in his mouth to prevent the burning when pulled tight. Real McCoy. Down east for salmon, we use heavy buts for leaders to carry in the wind. Ive tapered them to almost microscopic, 22 size hooks. I tie the fly after I attach it to the the leader, tippet. Or leave it all heavy if the fly is hugh. In the day hooks were called nails. 4, 5, 6 inch nails. Hence the nail knot to join hook, without eye to tippet. I rise alot of fish on the blood knot, no hook required. Would like a link to your snell knot please. I just tie a simple knot and 5 half hitches to join to cast line. Great job guys
Thanks for watching! The link to the snell knot is in part of this video.
Holy smokes, Brian! Here we go, great stuff. When can we expect The End of the Line?
Just kidding, I know you guys don’t read comments.
All comments are read and replied to. Just not by Brian…..but you can reach him through the shop. Thanks.
Love the new slogan! 🤣
Thanks....hats, t-shirts and stickers coming. Stay tuned.
Question your leader on a 10-11-12wt saltwater with sinking tip line is still 4 foot? Even the diameter is .027"-0.29" lets say a 0.26" on a 10wt will it hold a big saltwater fish of 60 pounds for example? or you would make it even stronger on the butt section? Thanks! and great video by the way
Thanks for watching. Please send those questions over to Brian directly and he’ll be happy to answer. Call him or email him.
It works, all I got to say.
It certainly does!
Nothing was said about fly line diameter to butt diameter. Do they need to match up or drop down a few thou in diameter. And 2 what about a 12 in. Shock toppit. Is this just added on to the tippet or is the middle section eliminated?
Please send your questions over to Brian at the shop. E-mail or call him and he'll be happy to help. Thanks.
At times, I thought Flip was wearing up to four pairs of glasses during this. I must need reading glasses 😂
Only ever seen him with two pairs.
SURE WOULD APPRECIATE THE GUIDELINE/SPREAD SHEET LAYING OUT MATCHES BETWEEN VARIUOS WEIGHT FLY LINES AND BUTT SECTION DIAMETERS ETC
THANKS FOR THESE VIDEOS
THEY ARE REALLY WELL THOUGHT OUT
BILL
Feel free to contact the shop directly and they can help with that. Thanks for watching.
Of someone buys a 120 dollar Rio or SA line from you and cuts the loop off. Does that not nullify the warranty?
You'd have to check with the folks at the shop about that. We don't have that information here. Don't think so but not sure. Send them an e-mail or give them a call and they will be happy to help.
Tks Brian 4 pointing me 2wrd 2. It was very informative. Gonna watch it again. God Bless n fish on.
Thanks for watching.
Brian - does it make much difference, if any, what material you use for your tippet, ie: regular mono vs Mason hard mono or an equivalent diameter fluorocarbon?
It certainly does as he talks about often. Best to call or e-mail him at the shop though with questions as he doesn't hang out here much. He'll be happy to help.
is there any problem with cutting the loops off and just tying the tapered leader on the fly line and not piecing it all together? So its the fly line to leader but tying it instead of using the loops. Thanks!
Please contact the shop directly with your questions and they will be happy to answer/help. Thanks.
Amazing video! I've been fly fishing my whole life and never much thought into any of this. I simply cannot believe how much this improved my casting OVERNIGHT. I'll never buy tapered leaders in a pack again. Can't wait to cast my 8/9wt rods, with heavier setups, next month for Michigan salmon/steelhead/b. trout.
Thanks for watching.
Is there a way to figure out the best line to tie on before Tying it to the fly line so I don’t have to cut it 3 4 5 time to find the best match the bell. Does bell Curve check has to be done when tied to the fly line?
Check the video description for a guideline. Call or email the shop if any further questions. Thanks.
If I'm using a 3wt line for nymphing and dries any idea for butt section sizeing?
Please contact the shop directly and they will be happy to help. Thanks.
I use mostly a 5 wt WFF or 4 wt WFF lines here in SW Mo so what would matching butt section be for trout?
Please contact the shop with your questions and they will be happy to help. Thanks.
I find the memory in the mono annoying when I tie my own leaders can you recommend a decent butt section line i fish 5wt dry a standerd size fly line
Contact Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help. Thanks.
When are the "A new leader starts in butt" stickers, hats and shirts going to be available?!
"A good leader starts in the butt"- "You're only as good as your butt". Stay tuned.....they are coming.
I'm glad you are anti loop I've cut them off for years to bulky and hard to cast
Thanks for watching.
Hi there!
Have been watching a few of your leader videos lately and I have a question cross comparing 2 vids. Here Brian says Maxima ultra green (MUG) is too flexible for streamer butt sections, but in "Build Perfect Nymph & Streamer Leaders" Brian recommends using MUG for the butt section of sink tip leaders. Why is this?
Is it a revelation had since that older video? Or is it a difference between longer FLOATING LINE leaders and shorter SINK TIP/FULL SINK leaders?
Thanks in advance for clearing that up!
AND another relevant question: where in this leader formula might I insert a tippet ring (for preservation)? After the mid section just before the tippet perhaps?
Thanks for watching. Please send your questions over to Brian at the shop and he'll be happy to help and answer. He can be reached by phone or by e-mail. Phone is always best.
I always thought that the rule of thumb was no more than 2 or 3 thousands on a blood knot due to slippage
Have not heard that one. Feel free to call or email Brian at the shop though for further clarification. Thanks.
I’m from Colorado and as soon as I saw the thumbnail for this video I thought ‘holy crap, a John Gierach sighting!’ I loved and collected all his books in the 80’s and 90’s. I didn’t realize he had a twin. Lol
Thanks for all this information!
Thanks for watching.
What knots are you using from butt section to mid section and then to tippet? Thanks.
Please send your questions directly to the shop and they will be happy to help. Thanks.
Seems like this would be a nice simple formula for floating Spey lines.
Probably so!
Do you use fluorocarbon as it disappears in water, so fish can't see it?
We do not and it doesn’t. Please contact the shop with any further questions.
What knot are you using to connect butt to mid and mid to tippet? Thanks!
Here you go:
ua-cam.com/video/IB3_rePvDMU/v-deo.html
Just to speculate for a bit: I suspect that when Flip wants to transfer all the energy through the transactions between leader or line sections, both the mass an stiffness matters. I think this is analogous to sending electrical signals down transmission lines through different segments, one needs to match the impedance across section. Or for the opposite, one mismatches impedances in layers of sound proofing walls spun that the energy doesn’t transfer through the wall. I suspect that the impedance of a fly line is a combination of its mass per inch with its stiffness. Would be a fun mechanical engineering student’s senior project
Thanks for watching and for the speculation. Sounds about right.
This is exactly how I think of it. Your transferring a wave down a line. Any change in impedance will have some of the wave (energy) transfer through, and some transfer back.
I'm electrical/physics, but mechanical waves are basically the same as electrical in transmission lines. Instead of electrical impedance, you have mechanical impedance. Think of a rope attached to a chain midway. If you send a wave down, it hits the change in impedance (connection between chain and rope) and that will reflect some of the wave, and some will transfer through the chain. You can find demos of this.
I've been thinking about trying to model this to see the exact difference. Because mathematically your right, if you can match the impedance, you can transfer all the energy down the line
Great clarification in Part 2 Brian. ,👍🏻👏🏻🎣🐟😎🇺🇸
Thanks for being here!