Young doctor who blogged her burnout amazed by public response | 7.30
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- Опубліковано 12 лют 2019
- A trainee doctor has been overwhelmed by the response she received after going public with her story about "four months of hell" working at a Sydney hospital.
Yumiko Kadota, 31, posted a blog explaining why she resigned from the job she had hoped would be the gateway to her dream career.
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shouldnt physicians be treated like pilots. Pilots are required by law to have a certain amount of rest before flying so then why aren't we applying the same measures to doctors and surgeons. People's lives are in their hands. It's so sad to see this happening.
Yes, unfortunately because the system was set up this way. If more money were gone to opening more doctor positions such that doctors did not have to do overnight (ie have a day doctor and a night doctor and not allow one doctor do both at once) calls or work ridiculous hours, we would not be seeing such crazy issues. I quit medical school in my second last year because of the same reasons as this lady doctor. It is a wonderful profession but a very dangerous (self-damaging) job.
@@AO-iv6yr That's so sad to hear, society always requires more physicians, but one can't be negligent to the potential consequences of becoming one. This is probably why there has been an influx of other medical professions gaining more attraction i.e. dentristy, chiro, etc. Do you believe that it genuinely comes down to more government funding or would an internal system change be more productive? Is this a just a public hospital issue or does this also extend to the private institutions? I'm very curious :)
John Chen I must confess that im not as aware of these governmental issues as much as other doctors/people because I was buried in my books (or tried to) and just trying to make it past every day during my training. I think it is the same in both private and public. The main difference in private and public is the physicians wages and the benefits the patient gets I guess, but the pressure on doctors will ever be high. It has to come both from funding as well as the internal system. As for the 'internal system' it has to start from med school. Students in med school have fun in their first two to three years because they do mainly textbook studying, but when it comes to the clinical years they become a very junior member of the medical team and they are supposed to go through the same timetables as junior doctors, in addition to studying for exams, meaning going to hospital for 12 hours daily, do weekly overnight calls, and come home at 6pm and continue studying after having your dinner and washing up. It is pure slavery and takes the fun and passion out of the career. I strongly believe calls should be banned and an introduction of 8-12h day and night shifts be done (just like in nursing) even though it would mean more handover. As for surgeons it could prove tricky because operations vary, with some going on for more than 24h, especially in neurosurgery. The point I'm making is to be humane towards doctors. Unfortunately it is hard to change because instruction is always handed down from the top, and many senior or veteran doctors may think such a more relaxed system is 'wimpy'. We've come so far, please don't make us slaves. Subsequently this would extend to the topic of funding, which is obviously inadequate for more positions such that the workload can be spread out well, eg having two doctors on overnight call instead of just one doctor for multiple wards and clinics.
It was long ago now, but l remember the issue of a lack of doctors being addressed back in the 90's before we started importing foreign doctors en masse. The problem that came up wasn't the governments willingness to fund more places for training, but from the ama not wanting a big increase in the number of doctors coming through. Their argument essentially boiled down to lower quality doctors and lower wages for current doctors. Now we clearly have imported a lot of doctors since then that wouldn't have been good enough to graduate in the Australian system and the quality of care in many regions has gotten worse. Most doctors lve talked to would far prefer less money in exchange for a higher quality of life. Even GPs are often overworked and have high depression rates, but surgeons and ER doctors are pushed far beyond what anyone should consider sane. But as pointed out above, the old surgeons and doctors think they went through it so the new ones should be able to as well, it's a similar issue to many military systems. The problem with that line of thought is that we all have a confirmation bias that makes the past look better than it was and young doctors are now having to learn far more than doctors did a couple of decades ago.
@Matt TheChosen I really like the sound of 'Most doctors lve talked to would far prefer less money in exchange for a higher quality of life.' That's my philosophy too and to me, it is the path to change - in order to have 'less money', one would have to have more doctors covering the same amount of work. I think having more doctors is much better, of course local doctors being more ideal than foreign-trained. You are so right - thank you for saying that GPs are overworked. They really are. GP is the first port of call, apart from the Emergency Department, for most patients, thus the mess in having to sort out their problems de novo. During my GP rotations, I struggled getting through patients in the amount of time we were given and I witnessed the poor quality of care given to the patients because of the time constraints. Before the rotation and after the rotation I was so convinced I would never be a GP. I just hate how some senior doctors think that just because they went through hell means everyone else can go through the same thing as well. Honestly, I do not have an inkling about what they went through, but I am certainly not happy about what I am seeing doctors going through nowadays.
If we don't care for our doctors how do we expect them to care for us?
Why should they be treated any different from the rest of us?
@Jeff Joy: Really? You ask yourself that when next you find yourself on a gurney being wheeled from the ambulance into an emergency ward and one of these tired, overworked young doctors has been assigned to you and they've already been working 36 to 48 hours non-stop.
@@jeffjoy4954 I'd actually like all workers to be valued. Neil Forbes raises a valid point that overworked, tired employees (in this case Doctors) may not necessarily make the right decisions. This can have far reaching consequences.
You keep telling yourself that, John Small. Perhaps if or when you find yourself lying on a hospital gurney because some rev-head hoon runs a red light at an intersection and hits your car side-on, you're going to be hoping the doctor who attends to your injuries has only just come on duty at that time, instead of being on his/her feet after nearly 2 days without a decent rest or meal break.
@@neilforbes416 The real question here is why do they need to work like that? Also, they have choices in thier workplaces just like everyone else.
For a doctor to be drained by working crazy overtime hours should increase the likelihood of dangerous mistakes being made in their practices.
Exactly. It should be illegal to make someone work more than 12 hours..
It should be a criminal offence, punishable by 40 years in prison WITH NO PAROLE for making these doctors work 8 hours without even so much as a meal break.
Exactly, Ricky. An exhausted doctor is far more likely to make mistakes and accidentally harm or even kill a patient. Over-worked doctors are a disaster waiting to happen. Or in terms the admin care abut, a lawsuit waiting to happen
This video is so naive, Junior doctors (interns) have long been the slave labor force of Medicine around the world. It's just another way of Big Business saving money at the expense of everyday people. What is REALLY Important is not whether junior doctors are overworked or whether that endangers patient health & safety. What is REALLY Important is that executives in medical corporations get those hefty bonuses by saving money through exploiting the labor force at the bottom of the food chain. Money trumps concerns about human health & safety every time. How hypocritical this video is for not pointing out the financial upside for hospitals of treating junior doctors as slaves of an exploitive system. ... So.Experienced@gmail.com
These "junior doctors" need to be protected by legislation that ensures a LENGTHY prison sentence for hospital CEOs(registrars) who push these young doctors into shifts lasting beyond 8 hours without meal breaks. 40 years with NO PAROLE should be the MINIMUM sentence.
It is truly horrifying going under for surgery and seeing your surgeon suffering from sleep deprivation
I was (yes, was, meaning I quit) a medical student. Unfortunately, I can tell you that surgeons, especially training surgeons (who do most of the work, not consultant surgeons themselves) are the most tired of the lot. I almost fell over at the operating theatre during my surgical rotation in medical school. We were all subject to the same hours as all doctors - and yes, we had to spare time to study for our exams on top of that. It was pure injustice and slavery. The system really needs to change from the inside out.
I fine it hard to understand that the medical profession does not understand it own findings on work proficiency, please do not quit . people that know when they are not at their best and carry on cause the problem.
Black Adder I'm sorry, I have already quit because I will not surrender my precious life to this any longer. I love being a doctor but because I can't physically cope with the demands of the system, I have to quit.
It's those kind of doctors who forget watches and scissors inside patients.
My mom and brother and both nurses and I've never understood why their shifts are 12hrs long.
I worked day and night straight, 100+hour weeks, survival of the fittest mentality...it is torture
This makes me so angry.
Our lives depend on someone who's being abused like that, that hospital should have been sued
It's a world wide problem with doctors. This is a theme everywhere. It's actually a part of the internal culture of becoming and being a doctor. She is just one example who became public. It take a lot of exposure and time for an entire system & culture to change, but I do hope it happens! We deserve it as patients, and the doctors deserve it as humans.
My sister is an ER doctor. They forced her to work more than 10hrs. She always complained that she is too stressed to take care of patients. I told her that you might make a mistake by giving wrong medications to patients. It is not safe for working too much hours ... Leave or move to somewhere else.
It’s every hospital everywhere that does this
Joanna W Unfortunately this is completely normal, everywhere. I’m a nurse in the states and our poor physicians also endure this. Healthcare is an abusive profession, and I recommend anyone seriously thinking about entering it to reconsider.
@@jmillar7118 well said👏👏👏
How many times is that guy going to say "Sorry". Nothing he said would indicate that things will change.
To be fair , that could have been a 20 minute sit down interview that was strategically edited.
@@justinm2697 True, but I can assure you these people don't really care about who's working for them, rather as long as the work gets done at the minimum cost, then their job is done. Being on the news for such a thing is their worst nightmare.
I believe there should be a monitoring system to make sure this 100hrs overtime kind of experience does not happen to anyone~ Probably the organisation who is above this hospital can run random audit or annual audit for the hospital staff to make sure everyone is working under the right environment which in turns is beneficial for the better quality service for the patients there~
Instead of writing a stupid comment maybe write a suggestion of what's meant to change? Can you imagine say, a pilot complaining about the work hours or the higher radiation they are exposed to every second day? It's the nature of the work! Everyone knows it, I'm not a pilot and I know it! And they are compensated for it!
Pilots have rules in place to stop excessive hours. Like no more than 100hrs in a month. It makes sense because they have many lives in their hands. Surgeons also have lives in their hands everyday. Anyone who thinks they are operating at 100% after working 12hrs, 20,hrs and 16hrs on consecutive days is kidding themselves. Mistakes are bound to happen which could easily kill someone.
A truck driver can be sanctioned by the government and lose his license and job if he spends too long working without a break.
Doctors, employed by the government, to make life and death decisions every day, are expected to work long hours without a break.
I'm pretty sure the mistakes made by tired doctors would probably kill more people than tired truck drivers.
Very good point!
@@dazaspc "In NSW alone, 140,000 reports on incidents of harm to patients and ‘near-misses’ are made each year."
"In Victoria, 14.6 per cent of surgical deaths have been considered potentially preventable due to factors such as lack of timely involvement of senior staff, treatment delay, and failure to recognise a problem." That's 14.6% of approx 1400 surgical deaths a year in just one state.
Nationally, 169 people died as a result of the impact of a "heavy vehicle". The majority of those were the fault of a small vehicle driver or were single vehicle incidents where a heavy vehicle crash killed the driver.
Nice try but the critical thinking problem is your's not mine.
@@dazaspc what benefits got from training under sleep deprivation? Please explain😅 i never get it.
He said sorry like 50 times but couldn't even say her name. That guy needs better media training you can see right though him.
Yep. That clown needs a shake-up. He definitely should have said that they'll officially look into it and prevent staff from getting clobbered by those long stretches of work hours. You could see that this particular guy didn't actually care - could easily tell from his behaviour.
the guy said what their lawyer tell him to say, at the end of the interview he got a thumbs up a pat on the back and a good work from the lawyer he was really focus not to say anything that could cause a lawsuit and most likely he still has his job
@@southpark4151 Where the hospital's Duty of Care to these Doctors, All doctors withdraw there services there be a human cry.
He was a very poor example of a CEO. Perhaps Bankstown Hospital isn't able to recruit anyone competent. Clearly his main concerns are revenue and meeting benchmarks or targets. Looking after staff is not a priority.
but maybe he's very well trained? not to say anything that can complicate the hospital's situation.
For people who think long hours are not a problem, don't come crying when a surgeon makes a fatal mistake on your relative because they're burnt out.
Agreed. Great comment
Pretty sure she's a Junior Surgeon, the head surgeon knows the risk of being burn out.
@@jason4275 thats not what really happening, i believe you dont even work in the area to speak about it
collateral damage fam
Well clearly she is the exception. How many have gone through the program successfully? It appears that this was a natural way for this young lady to discover she is not the right fit, as the process intended. One's ability to power through moments of intense stress are a requirement for some jobs, and should be. Perhaps she came into the process unknowing that she had some health predispositions and this process brought those forward.
I'm a senior neurosurgery registrar in South Africa. It's a common trend worldwide. Most people are not aware of it. You find even family and friends can't quite seem to comprehend it. Apart from the hours, you also see things and do things that can leave you so emotionally drained. The culture is almost like the military. It's a culture of don't talk about and just man up.
Agreed. I also shared my experience in the comments. Thank you for speaking up. Please be careful though, your name is visible here (it could backfire you if someone you know sees it), unless you're using an alias.
Earlier comments referenced the legal and mandatory requirement that pilots and truck drivers have to not fly or drive after a fixed number of hours. I think in this there is a recognition by law makers, at least in these and other similar positions, of the need for rest to avoid disastrous consequences. Therefore, doctors need to take legal steps, if need be, to have the same consideration be shown to them.
@@deanjones2525 So where the Duty of Care it's across every other industry the same has to be applied to all medical professions
Charles Mgone yeah you are right, things need to change.
wth I got drained sometimes of just taking care of my 10 cats and I don't even have a job or relationship to attend to.
No human who is actually sorry for something says they are "sincerely apologetic"
Most people are a "little off" to enter medicine. They think all this is normal because.
It’s a pc answer. It means nothing but at the same time means a lot because we can always tell what a person’s reasons generally are by their response. This just means a few people get fired and everyone moves on, no system changes, no societal changes, just words to satisfy an audience.
When you are put in front of a camera to represent the hospital as a part of your job, what choice do you have? It's not like he has all the answers to how to train doctors and how homo sapiens work. We are all learning
He also grinned at one of the reporter's points/question: 5:40
Why does the other doctor run a support network for female doctors but not all doctors?
no human who is sorry says 3 times at the hospital in three sentences that guy was literally scripted
Medicine that can't support its own practitioners to be healthy. what the hell.
They were using her. Plain and simple.
Airline pilots are limited in hours they can fly.....truck drivers too....Why? Because fatigue causes errors and often results in deaths!
But your doctor can work 20 hrs plus and that is somehow OK? WTF!
Because young doctor needs loads of practical traning to quickly become good doctor .
Vehicle driver
@@chinahuman2000 Yes .....An argument could be made to the effect that, internship is a "trial by ordeal" to prepare the lone surgeon for times when they will need to operate for 16 hrs straight and that they need to learn a lot quickly but this just points to the faults in the system. Surgery needs to be more of a team effort and young surgeons should be mentored in the role....perhaps I'm idealistic but things definitely need tweaking! Basic human needs like food and sleep need to be factored in?
I dont know why doctors are expected to be super human, what a joke
It's a global phenomenon
@@chinahuman2000 loads of training doesn't need to be crammed into a 16-24 hour day though
I rather make 50k a year and have a life than 100k with no life.
But would you make 300K-500K and have no life? That's a more realistic salary of a mid career surgeon.
You completely missed her point! She wasn't doing it for the money, she was doing it because it was her dream. They destroyed her dream by expecting her work like an electronic android rather than a person.
@@dennischen8887 no point if you cant enjoy it. I know some people retire early but I still think it would suck to suffer through all those years even if it's not as long. The best situation is enjoying your career to where you wony just be coasting to retirement
They make much more than 100K.
Great point. Having been through what she went through (I have quit), I know that I'd rather give up all the riches for a more modest-salary job. This way I can be happy. I can not only enjoy the money I earn, but I can spend more time with myself and my family. It's so not worth it going through hell and earning that sort of amount. Moreover, with more time on my hands now, I can even have the time to think about other 'small businesses' or investments that will make me more money on the side!!! Whilst I was in the medical field, I struggled to find that sort of time to think about or devote to a side-income source. A win-win situation!
I went through similar experience in China and Japan. Nobody cared. Only sleeping medication and antidepressants were the only way to get myself back together.
As a male surgeon , i have witnessed exploitation for either females surgeons , immigrant doctors/nurses.
I think it is time to speak out and let the society understands what's going on
Thank you for speaking out. I am (an ethnically Chinese) male too and quit medical school in my penultimate year because I knew what I would have to suffer for the rest of my life. Some can take it, I can't. I'm so glad with my decision, even though it seemed like many years have gone to 'waste'.
@Anglosphere United Thanks for your comment. I am going to begin a pharmacy degree now. The work hours and the nature of the work (still dealing with clinical stuff) appeal to me. I just hope to get a job at the end.
Can you talk about what that exploitation is like
in the USA, people go into debt $100's of thousands to go to medical school. And then the doctors have to work like this after graduating. It does not sound like a good career to go into.
I'm sorry you went threw that, it breaks my heart that people get treated as if they are not anything but a machine.
in the USA, people go into debt $100's of thousands to go to medical school. And then the doctors have to work like this after graduating. It does not sound like a good career to go into.
it's not exactly a great career, but if you feel it's a calling you can get past the negative aspects. People who want to earn lots of money don't last long doing this
@@folumb don't even have to earn a lot of money. But going into the profession with $100's of thousands in debt?? come on man.
I’ve worked as a nurse with some of these drs! And I have always felt so badly for them , what is expected of these young people is almost abuse, and they do not get either the credit,or support they absolutely need! I always felt sorry for them when they were taking a much needed small break, and I had to go and fetch them. I was working a double shit ( many nurses ) do that , and heartbreakingly a dr took her own life for this exact reason! This hospital has failed her BADLY!!! I get sick of people having a go at these young drs or go on about how much they earn, as far as I’m concerned they deserve as much as they can! I hope she goes back there are so many lives she would have an impact on , I wish I could give her a big hug. Bless her now and in the future
I totally understand what you were saying. I know how as a nurse you want to speak up but you just can't. The same thing in medicine. Not to mention those (some) doctors (even some nurses) with that ugly ego. You can't say a word or else you'll be done for. It's about the hierarchy.
You nurses also work very hard. Well, some more than others. I feel for the one overworked nurse who to pick for a few that slack off.
C. S. what a lovely comment to make👍
I don't understand why these young Doctors are forced to work so many hours when they said there is a line of people to take their place.
Why not just hire more doctors???
$$$$$
Cheaper to make fewer work harder than hire more
Because instead of using their own peer reviewed science and reason the people running the show would rather suffer mistakes and burnout from underlings than employ enough people to meet their own standard of care.
It’s a priority problem the accountants want cheap and they don’t care that the science says that the long hours need to stop. And the doctors saying “I managed it so you have to” need to get out of the way and let the change happen peoples lives are at risk over this. This isn’t a gender issue it’s a duty of care issue read the peer review articles and this there are many.
Because the ones doing the hiring are often not doctors. They're externally employed to make the hospital run as efficient on paper as possible. And having one person do the task of three is very efficient, nevermind the single person has to do back to back shifts of double digit hours day in day out.
It doesn't help that we have people from a bygone era thinking that simply because they suffered more people will have to suffer as well. It's the combined effect of both of these things which perpetuates this sort of behaviour and the end result is that the healthcare industry has one of the highest, if not the highest, suicide rates of all the major industries.
If they are paid overtime then it's more expensive, not cheaper.
The biggest problem in the past was always other(senior) doctors. They don't want competition bringing down their exorbitant wages. Their argument was that if they let more people into medical degrees that it would bring down the standards, but given we have imported loads of doctors from other countries that aren't up to the standards of the Australian system l think the quality argument is rather rediculous. There are plenty of exceptional applicants, just not enough places for training them and that seems to have been a deliberate move by the ama(Australian medical association).
I think part of it is a tradition. Doctors are made to work long crazy hours, especially when they start, as a way of testing their meddle. Perhaps they need to be battle tested. Not that I agree with that.
The general manager doesn't give a CRAP about it's staff members, that's clearly evident in his constant "apology"....
The guy sounds very similar to MY employer, who doesn't truly give a CRAP about us, and our employment in the emergency services sector....
Talk is cheap, and as long as they look "good" to the outsiders, then it doesn't matter about the staff.....
Very true they only cate about there bonuses at the expense of good hard workers. But eventually it catches up every dog gets there day.
@paul w
I hear ya!
But you don't have to be a rooster about it..
@paul w since when is treating sickness a business this isn't the days where quacks roamed around like the early 19th century
I'm playing devil's advocate here but the general manager wouldn't have anything to do with the schedules. That responsibility goes to the chief of residency.
@@rumblefish9
Yeah true, but he would have known about the issue's she raised, and obviously done ZERO about it....
I just quit medical school in my penultimate year because I knew what I would be up for for the rest of my life if I didn't cut myself off this wonderful profession yet horrible career. It was traumatic, because I spent more than 6 years of my life pursuing this dream, but I had to do it. Like what she says, the SYSTEM needs to change. Doctors are given ridiculous responsibilities. Please especially, stop the horrible working hours, including the 24-hour calls. Stop asking medical students to work 12 hours and then come home and study and then go back to the hospital at 6 am the next day. The medical profession is one where people are afraid to change things or to speak up because it's literally all about face value and hierarchy. You suck it up or you are out. Money is also why there are so few medical schools and job positions, because the system needs to save a lot of money on training and hiring even more doctors, who would then be able to share the workload better and work less hours. Things are probably not going to change in the next few decades, but maybe it might in the far future.
A O wow. And I thought corporate was bad
We need less gov rules because look at the mess we have now 🤯
A O are you stuck with student loans?
Kara A I'm very blessed in that my parents have paid for all the costs.
TheUnicorn Yes, I totally feel you. I wish that all medical students in this predicament could come together and just console and comfort each other. Unfortunately everyone puts on a front, in fear, and no one knows what another person is suffering. I had met a GP during my GP rotation and when I asked her frankly if she had ever thought about quitting, she said yes, and she was given a leave for about two weeks to think things over, but unfortunately she decided that she had no choice but to finish because of you guessed it, debt. I hope you get all the support you need during this horrible time. I know what it means when you say that you wonder how you can make it through each day and it is the most anxiety-provoking period you have ever experienced. Please assess all your academic and financial options properly, go to a student advisor or counsellor that you can speak sincerely with, and make sure you ask all the questions you want. If it is going beyond what your health can take, you should consider quitting, before things get worse for you academically or till even more debt accrues. You are not the only one in this situation, the counsellor has told me because she sees similar cases as me. If there is something that you can fix that will make your current journey smoother, then please do stay on this path, but if you have thought about it from all angles and can't see yourself getting through to the finishing line, then please stop. Please do what is right for yourself and your future.
I don't think any surgeon should have to work more than 8 hours a day. To work 20 hours as she was made to is just obscene. Not only is it a high-stress, extremely precise job that they need to do which requires incredible mental focus and their undivided attention, but it is also a job where they see tragedy, suffering and death every single day. You absolutely do NOT want surgeons to be nodding off while they're cutting someone open, and they also need time to recover mentally, to process what they go through on a daily basis, and to put the pieces back together.
And she worked 24 days straight
Totally agree and for surgeries that are longer than 8 hrs they should get a roster day off before next shift also. If the government trained more doctors they wouldn't be spread so thinly either!
Doctors are superhuman. I don't know how they do it.
@@angienatoynYes, many can take the responsibility though they are just scraping through. I for one could not, that's why I had to quit. Many doctors are fit (hopefully)and have that stamina. Imagine all the stress they had to go through since day one of medical school. If they couldn't survive that, they wouldn't be at their jobs today. However, many are burnt out and are not happy. Yes, they have the superhuman stamina to go through this daily grind but inside, many are suffering.
I agree that all doctor's should work reasonable hours and get lots of sleep but as a med student myself, I've observed that it is not possible to provide good surgical care working just 8 hours/ day. When you are trusted to operate on a human being you own the outcome. That means you must deal with all complications there-in which doesn't always (in fact, rarely) fit within an 8 hour day. 8 hours/day would require more patient care hand offs which data shows (in the US at least) produces worse patient outcomes. It is a definite drawback to being a surgeon, but one that all surgeons accept. What happened to Dr. Kadota though was egregious. Most surgeons are working 10-12 hour days (trainees will do 12-13 hour days) and she was way past even that. There are other medical specialties that can accomodate better working hours but surgery just isn't one of those.
The General Manager just regurgitated what the Hospital's lawyers told him to say.
yup, he cannot go into depth...he's just saving his job rather than taking responsibility
What else was he supposed to do?
Hi from India. Where this is NORMAL ! we die minute to minute second to second.
And we're told by our seniors and staff that we are soft. And this is less work than they had done. And just keep going. It gets better. This is a learning disciplining process. We don't say anything more because it is our residency and we may not get a degree ahead. So we shut up and keep our heads down. And work.
And we're so easily replaceable.
I was blessed to have good seniors and staff who made sure we ate and got enough sleep. But not everyone. Not my senior who committed suicide.(no one even remembers anymore) , not my friends who cry every night to sleep. Not those who wake up in their sleep to nightmares, not those who are ridiculed and humiliated and screamed at in hospital rounds for small writing errors due to lack of sleep for 4 days straight.
Cheers to us. I hope one day we could change the system. Inside out.
And how do we quit when we have invested so much into this. Years and money. We've taken loans for tuition fees that need to be paid. We have family responsibilities. We are called careless or irresponsible or ungrateful if we complain for even a second.
true.. if we complain we will lose our job , noone will notice , it doesnt matter to lose a jr Doctor and will lose 6 years of medical school, we cannot do any other job either. so have to bear it up. this is everywhere.
Crazy stuff. And it seems to be the norm around the world.
So true. I totally feel what you are saying. But I believe that committing suicide is not the way to go. We need to find the courage to do what is right for us and not have to please everyone. I hope you get rest (in the spiritual sense) one day.
that apologetic doctor guy sounds like a robot.
Prem Chand his not a doctor his the general manager of the hospital.it’s his job to make the workplace run smoothly. He probably doesn’t even have a degree from university
paul w he doesn’t show any genuine emotions towards her. It’s like he know he’s forced to apologise
too much upspeak
I’m in the US but this is why I gave up medicine. It was hard to give up my dream, but our system has made it a nightmare. Physician suicide is a problem, and I didn’t want to fall prey to that. The anxiety and depression was unbearable. The system abuses doctors which affects patient outcomes, and I don’t know how they continue to get away with this. Doctors should be well rested.
Thank you so much for speaking out. I experienced the same thing as you. Medicine was my only dream as a career and it got shattered because of the system. I quit in 3rd year. I am an Aussie but was training in Canada for my clinical year, so I know the North American system. It is a good healthcare system in many respects but not in many other respects as well. 'The anxiety and depression were unbearable.' So true. 'Doctors should be well rested.' Amen. The same system around the world abuses doctors and takes all the fun and life out of this gorgeous profession.
When she mentioned the gut issues, omg. I feel ya, girlfriend! Years later still suffering the effects of stress...
We don't have proper context. There are many other variables besides work stress that could contribute to her gut problems.
Hospitals have treated young doctors as slaves to increase profits. 'Non-profit' hospital is a legal term.
Good on you for taken care of yourself. I want my surgeon happy, well slept, well fed and just got laid night before, Please stand up for future doctors and other trades that taken care of self is a safety issue. With the comment below from Jay Zandegiacomo is the wrong attitude in our society. I want to move to Sweden.
Kip W I ageee with your comment except for the Sweden part. No matter the country doctors still work much longer hours than most other professions.
When young doctors are burnt out before their career has any chance to develop and flourish, then the hospital management should be held criminally liable and sentences of not less than 40 years should be imposed, WITH NO PAROLE!
I quit medical school in my second last year because I know what I was in for. It's not just the hospital. It is a national and international system that runs this way. No money to fund twice as many doctors as we have now, that's why one doctor needs to do a work that by right two doctors should do.
@Jeff Joy: read this comment by A O. Then you just "might" get the idea of what these doctors have to face as they try to start their medical careers.
I just did a video about burnout rates in doctors and it’s really high among many specialties, unfortunately.
omg
He’s just apologising because it’s in the media.
His body language shows no remorse and is tone is so robot like.
This is why I'm afraid to go hospital. The doctors and nurses don't get any rest. Putting patients, doctors and nurses lives all at risks. I am making sure to go gym and living a healthy life to avoid hospital visits
Was just like her in high school/first couple of years in university when I realized the career path is not worth it, you have to be willing to sacrifice your life for it, and sure it's great to be able to "save lives and help others" but there are many other jobs that you can do to contribute to society. We need more people who stand up to unjust systems like this
He had to point out “junior” doctors . They really don’t care
held to the same standard a lot of the time as a regular doctor too, yikes
The problem is systemic. The whole medical training system runs this way, and has for decades and decades. The medical administrator may not be able to do much about this, the problem is in the whole medical training system. As 7.30 reports. the young doctor had responses from overseas doctors. The culture of bullying and exploiting junior doctors is entrenched. The medical hierarchy has enormous power, and they all went through this themselves. The push for change must come from the public. It's an archaic system that serves no one.
Thank you for this ABC. My Daughter since a child has wanted to be a surgeon, she is an A+ grade student and is so focused on her career path to be so. I have discouraged her at times as I am fearful of this happening to her. I am going to get her to read the blog and see this. If she still wishes to continue so be it yet I hope at least this gives her pause. I appreciate the Dr coming forward, bless her.
Sammy M Good luck to your daughter. I’m a physician happy with what I do, but it was an EXTREMELY long road to get here. Graduated residency almost 3 years ago. Every time someone told me not to be a physician, I didn’t realize they had my best interests in mind. I would take it as a challenge or even someone insulting my intelligence and would be even more driven to pursue medicine. No one could convince me otherwise.
@@SabaandChic Thank you for sharing. Please remember that you are not alone. I shared my story in the comments. May God bless you and may you always have peace. I had no choice but to quit medical school or else I could have ended up in hot water, academically and emotionally.
Forget the apologies from this man about the experience she had. These are patients that are at risk from doctors that can't maintain their own health. It's so sad that she had to go through that, but it's a blessing that she spoke out. We need to feel healthy and 100% when we are with our patients.
Apologies are meaningless until they take action to fix the problem
My heart aches for the wonderful underappreciated people who work in the medical field
His apologies were so fake
Bankstown hospital is the worst! I had a motor bike accident. After waiting 10 hours nurse was told by the doctor to clean my wound and send me home. After another hour. Luckily for me the change of shifts and a new doctor came looked at my xray and said I need surgery. To fix broken toe and to get the metal fragments from my foot.
Worst hospital ever!
I have a friend in Guatemala whose specialty is internal medicine. In the past, I have told her how lucky she is to be a doctor, but she says everyone who is not a doctor is lucky and how she feels bad for people who enter the medical field. I always wonder why she says that but I guess she just doesn't like to talk about her struggles.
pinkwakabeagle Well you get overworked and then you don’t have time for life outside of work.
You don’t have time to form or maintain meaningful relationships. Even if you do, they get neglected because you work too much and have to spend your free time resting from being overworked.
Also, these doctors don’t have time to exercise and eat right, so their health slowly deteriorates while they are worrying about everyone else.
Then there are abusive coworkers who try to sabotage you or even plot to get you fired.
Then there are those doctors who really can’t handle the stress and are on the brink of suicide.
They make all of this money but at what cost?
I was a pre-med who worked really hard to get up to the point of getting interviews for medical school. Last minute, I declined the interview. Why? So many people like this young female doctor spoke to me about their horrid experiences. I always asked the "If you can go back in time, would you do it all over again" question; the honest responses made me reconsider my whole life. Being a doctor is a prestigious profession, but at what point will you start to break? Your limits will be tested since year 1 in medical school towards the end of residency, which takes another 8 years. On top of shadowing attendings and doing clinical work for 7-9 hours a day, you're expected to keep up with your studies so you can pass your boards, classes, and certifications. I'm not here to discourage people from becoming doctors, because you're absolutely amazing for being strong-willed and relentless for striving on despite all the struggle.
Allowing sleep deprived surgeons to operate...................................
She wouldn't operate at all. She is managing postop patients which is far more mentally draining than surgery.
As a University student, I've had so many gut issues because of stress. And now I'm doing as much as I can to heal myself. It's not worth it everyone. If there's no balance everything in your body will be disconnected with the universe. We live in a pressured society, and one thing I can share with you, is that your health is way more important than anything in this world. If we don't have good health, we cannot be mobile. ❤✨🙏
My daughter is applying to medical school this year and I already worry for her, I know doctors have to work long hours and it can be exhausted sometimes.
If you really care; stop her applying, before it is too late!!!
Did she apply? And if so, how is she going? (I'm thinking of applying)
This lady is a hero in my eyes and others like her in the medical profession the number 1 priority is to look after them so they can look after others i hope that you can return to your profession all the very best in your recovery thank you for your service.
This is like us in South Africa ! 36 hour shifts ! Junior doctor struggles
So true. And with VERY limited and outdated equipment as well as inefficient/useless nursing staff.
It's also sad because she spent many years studying and thousands 200k+ 300+ not sure how much it would cost but it would take her a very long time to pay that off unless gets a very good job or something.
What's wrong with this guy who keep repeating his words!?! 😂 😂 😂 😂
Hes sleep deprived 😴
Apologizes is a meaningless word without action like "thoughts and prayers"
Hours for medical residents in the USA allow up to 80 hours/week, you can work 24 + 6 hours at a time
My son is a resident here in the states. He has gone over his "legal" hours many times. My question is WHY? How does this kind of thinking make good doctors? Just because we've always done it this way? I agree with John Chen and I have made that statement many times. It truly is a matter of life or death and as patients our lives are literally in their hands. Do the powers that be ever pay attention to things like the health and suicide rates of residents?
This is very very true. Never understood why residents and doctors don't have unions. It feels like an old school way of doing things; like this is how it's always been done so it's how it will continue to be done. The hospital administrator sounded like a broken robot.
There are resident unions in the US. This is how wage increases have been approved in years past, particularly in areas with higher costs of living. Obviously our unions are impotent, but they exist in some places
beautiful lady. glad she is stress free now. Health definitely does come first for every individual.
24-hour shifts for a surgeon is just asking for trouble! Why not get two trainees for like 7 to 8 hours?
Thank you for your courage to share about your experience! I sincerely wish you well on your career path. I just want to say, the majority of comments here have blown me away! People have been so insightful, compassionate, and caring, while expressing their thoughts, and in response to others in the comment section. There are people here that represent different nationalities and countries. I was blessed. Thanks for this new perspective, on a medical system that can potentially adversely affect all aspects of our health care anywhere in the world. Change starts by acknowledging and speaking up about a broken system.
As an RN and the spouse of a doctor, I witnessed first hand the stress on doctors and the bullying that goes on among them, it is really tragic. My husband loved medical school and attended Cornell Medical School, one of the top schools in the USA. The jealousy that he was confronted with once working on his own was incredible. The long hours, frequent on-call schedules and the lack of gratitude from patients was too much. Sure most of the patients loved him, but all you needed was one or two to really make your life miserable. The training was mind-boggling, no sleep sometimes for 48 hours and then you have an emergency. I witnessed an intern drop his needle as he was about to draw blood one day and he just walked out, said he could not do it anymore. He couldnt even keep his eyes open. I have not really seen a good improvement in this area. Although the big medical hospitals give doctors more time off, and they dont have to take care of the patients when admitted to the hospital, there is still room for improvement.
I understand now. I had an ex- boyfriend who was an orthopedic surgeon. Most Saturdays he would sleep up to 15 hours straight. Surgeons work so hard that they literally put their professions in first place and family second. There’s no time not even to sleep.
We limit truck driver hours, but not doctors. This is WRONG!!
Hello, I was a pediatric resident in Is and when to a similar experience of physical burn out and unintended weight loss in a short amount of time. This very much opened my eyes to take care of my own health and how sick hospital made us as people.
And people still question why doctors get paid as much as they do. I'm still a believer that they are underpaid having seen my sister go through med school and the countless stories from my friends who became doctors. From almost a decade of training in school, exams after exams after exams, countless hours on call, the fear of being sued for malpractice, the fear of having a patient die on you....the emotional, mental and physical toll of doctors is insane. I couldn't do it. Next time you go in for a doctor's visit and think you know more because you looked something up on WebMD, just STFU. For anyone who is on the path to becoming a doctor, good luck to you.
When I'm on call my hours are as follows:
*08:00-16:00 working in clinic
*get home at 16:30
*drive back to hospital at 19:30
*casualty call starts at 20:00 -08:00 next day
cant go home immediately
*have to work in clinic from 08:00-12:00pm
then I'm off until the next day
The burnout is real and very detrimental to our patients and us.
It’s even worst after training, when you get a “real” job. Hospital administrators and insurance companies are truly killing our young doctors. If a doctor quits or commits suicide, they are easily replaced by a younger one out of training who is willing to suffer in order to start paying back their student debt. It’s a terrible system.
Personally I would rather commit suicide, than subject myself to such a system!!!
I'm a young doctor doing his internship in Europe at the moment. The situation is the same in the whole world, and its bad. Its really really bad. Seriously considering giving up on medicine, just like some of my colleagues.
Doctors in the USA go through the same type of Hazing. After decades of research on the effects of shifts and cognitive ability, it is amazing that this industry still expects young doctors to work in these terribly dangerous environments for both the patient and the doctor.
I’ve met many young female doctors who are all 100% burned out depressed people. These are highly intelligent people yet they are so exploited. If you drink and drive you coped heavy penalty. What about doctors who are sleep deprived? What is it safe for them to perform surgeries if they didn’t get enough rest?
Kudos for her having the will to stand up to this abuse.
I also suffered a breakdown and was hospitalized for 11 days after a suicide attempt. Unfortunately in NYC their are no laws to protect us against abusive management. I resigned from my 10 year position, in a luxury 5 star hotel and am now on meds for depression, PTSD and anxiety.
From California here:
A few years back I had to go to the emergency room because of a burst appendix ( fun times, I know).
The doctor at ER after assessing me started putting lines into me, actually failed once and didn't quite secure another.
She explicitly complained about being tired and hungry, and don't get me wrong, the poor dear was trying so hard and great beside manners, but at some point she actually collapsed and sat down looking nauseous or most likely just plain exhausted.
This was my 1st time in the hospital for decades but it really only takes once to witness the mental and physical exhaustion these people go through, I'm honestly flabbergasted that having sleep deprived, overworked professionals in charge of delicate life or death situations is the norm rather than the exception.
The whole culture worldwide needs a change, there's no reason these heroes saving lives should be put under such stressful condition. Really, these are the types of conditions that foment medical mistakes.
To be honest though, based from experience from my home country and even here, the General Managers don't really care about the patients nor the staff, all they care about is the money and the service that has to be provided. Now I am not saying this as a generalisation, but that's how it has been. To see that the apologies by the GM in the video, it does not seem sincere to me and he's only apologising due to the fact that the hospital will be placed in bad reputation.
The administrator did nothing for her....why does he hold this position.
The amount of hours they require of doctors is crazy , these are ppl who's job it is to save lives.
Bullying is a serious issue - we all need to keep a check on the system that vulnerable individuals are not targeted!
How the HELL are these work hours even legal.
" I dont think 100 hours overtime is ideal." What a cop out.
I'm really happy she listened to her body.Work/ study can definitely deteriorate your health. When she said," I developed GUT issues," my mouth fell open because that happened to me too when I was doing my masters. I had no idea stress could do some much damage to the body, I literally felt like I was deteriorating.
Poor woman. I work in community based mental health services and burn out is common. I have numerous health conditions including ibs, an autoimmune disorder and ongoing chronic fatigue and depression - because of my job. I feel like we that care for others in need are often treated like we can be superhuman and until the health sector expects less from us and offers us more support, we are going to continue to burnout and the issue is never going to end. We start as optimistic intelligent young people who want to help change the world and are spat out ill, depressed and feeling totally useless because the core of who we are is in our ability to help others
As a patient I’d be concerned about overworked surgeons and doctors attending to me, as a tax payer why are we wasting $ on exorbitant overtime expenses..wouldn’t it be cheaper and safer for public hospitals to put on more drs who can safely drive to work and perform and pay them standard rates than pay overtime, overwork them to the point they could potentially cause a crash (& overwhelm the ER) on the way to work, and make mistakes at work.
It's always one person who has to suffer for changes to happen. Why cant changes happen prior the suffering, not right.
I never understood why people, let alone medical professionals, are allowed to work 12+ hour shifts. They have to make some very important decisions sometimes. Being awake during your 18th hour can be comparable to being tipsy on alcohol.
I was flogged out in the mines as the 1 admin for the largest department onsite. I was also bullied, harassed and intimidated. I fell apart from work burnout at 29 (2014). By the time I left that toxic, hell hole I was a complete shell. I am still unable to study full time as the PTSD and work burnout related anxiety flares up as soon as I am put under the pump. The toll it takes on your mental, emotional & physical health is so draining.
This is slavery at the highest level. Why bother to go to uni for six years and one year work experience only to quit less than a year later?
It is not so straightforward. I shared my story in the comments. There is no way of knowing how stressful the career would be until you start doing it. For me, I never knew it would be this stressful until my third year of medical school, during which time I quit. It was during my third year, the clinical year, where we had to work the same rosters as doctors and STUDY at the same time. It was not possible to know how physically demanding it was earlier than that, even if someone told me by mouth. I hope you understand that. And what you said is true - 'slavery at the highest level'.
Residents get ABUSED for the amount of hours they put in. But it's part of the system. You need the long hours to learn as much as possible during your residency years b/c one day you'll be the attending physician presented with a case that nobody else knows. BUT I don't think much learning is being done if your sleep deprived, prone to silly mistakes (dosage of meds, forgetting to order some panel). All in all we should thank our doctors b/c they go through so much in their mid-late twenties and literally sacrifice their lives to help better yours. GOD BLESS ALL THE DOCTORS and especially the ones who have undergo length internships (Cardiology, neurology, plastics).
This is what i'm scared of. I already GAVE UP so much of my social life, that I started to drink a bit too much just to get sleep. You end up killing yourself slowly or out of depression leading to suicide. #SAVEOURDOCTORS
May God bless you. What you said is true. I quit medical school quite late because I knew that this is NOT going to be how I will lead the rest of my life. I love medicine but the job does not cut it for me.
I wouldn't want to be treated by a doctor that worked that many hours, have a heart. An apology is no good when the damage is done
I'm so glad she found her happiness. Doctors need to have rest so they can fully focus on their patients.
This is the point I got to in my PhD programme where I was put on medical leave by the university physicians. It doesn't help that I already have two disabilities (epilepsy and Ehlers Danlos Syndrome), but the overwork during the same semester as my wedding was so much that I was having daily seizures, nightly panic attacks, vertebral dislocations, suicidality, and depression/anxiety so severe that I was having cognitive problems (i.e., memory lapses, attentional issues, etc.). Until we solve this problem in academia and med school, we're going to keep killing students.
They want a pound of flesh everywhere you work these days and I've done plenty of midnights and weekends, and got fat and depressed and isolotated from a normal social life. It needs to be legislated against!
idontwanttousemyownnamefuyoutube I was wondering why a lot of medical professionals look unhealthy. I thought they were supposed to be a pillar of health. That’s very unfortunate that happened to you.
Side note: I think it’s pretty interesting how doctors spend all of those years in school, but aren’t taught the importance and proper implementation of a good diet and exercise. Aren’t these things the first line of defense against diseases? (Well besides vaccines, antibiotics, and so on).
Im glad she spoke about it, because that requires courage!
She is so brave to tell the truth. In fact, she is so brave to give out such warning!
I clicked on this hoping to see a doctor doing a sweet burnout in a clapped out Commodore.
Yeah same. I feel ripped off
ABC...
Disappointing Aussies everyday
😂😂😂😂
???
@Scott Dwyer: Well who's the fucking idiot hoon then? This story is FAR more important than rev-head fuckwits. When you're in a severe crash after one of your rev-head sessions, you had better hope the doctor who works on you is not fatigued by working a 36-to-48 hour shift because of a scumbag registrar who doesn't give a flying fuck how tired his staff is.
I always have the utmost respect for doctors. I do wonder sometimes in a capitalist world if enough of them feel the same toward us.
Very few if any.
We are just as human as you. Doctors may put on a front but most of us are still normal people when we leave the office.
Humans who work within a culture of dishonesty and megalomania, bullying and harassment of their own and serve the interests of pharmaceutical and insurance companies/'health administrators to 'feather their own nests', above all.
There may be some good people who are doctors (probably are) but generally they are compromised and cowardly. The really bad doctors always get away with it for years despite other doctors knowing exactly who they are and why they are bad.
Any doctor not strongly advocating for change to the culture of the profession is a bad doctor as far as I am concerned.
see the hashtag #doctorsaredickheads for more personal accounts.... @@AO-iv6yr
@MrTrashCompaktor Yes, I agree completely with your comment. Btw, I am no longer in the medical field because I cannot stand that sort of culture.
Fair enough...in lots of ways. It is terrible that we have allowed our health systems to become so much more broken. It is not working out well for almost anyone. :( @@AO-iv6yr
To play devils advocate here: When you're a surgeon often you won't get to choose when you have to operate, sometimes you will be the only one to do the job, so don't you have to train to work in the face of pressure and exhaustion?
(That said working under pressure and exhaustion should be the exception and not the rule!)
Thank you doctor for your service and for sharing about physician suicide. Hoping this helps grow empathy for those who help us all.
In United States it is 4 years of residency after 4 years of medical school, and of course it all started out with 4 years of super intense pre-med. My girlfriend and I met in high school. Through the last 12 years every time I thought things cannot get anymore intense for her, some how the medical training system always proves me wrong.
In pre-med she studied through most nights, and almost every weekend. At least there were summer, and winter break which she had time off.
In medical school she studied through the nights, and every weekend. Again at least there were summer, and winter break which she had time off.
In residency though... Things just gone real crazy she usually spends 10 ~ 12 hour days at the hospital, then follow by 4~ hours of paper work at home. Half of the time is 5 days a week, those are easy weeks. Because the other half is 6 days a week. Oh yeah, and from time to time they also have to do all night shifts. Those were the toughest... Completely sleep deprived and have to stay up the whole night. HOW IS THAT EVEN POSSIBLE? Add the hours up she works between 70 ~ 80 work hours a week! All on a under 50k pretax salary!!! In big metropolitan cities like LA and New Year 50k pretax salary is a joke, it can barely pay rent and some necessities. When you work 80 hours a week you need a freaking nanny because you do not have time to do anything else.
Residency doctors are extremely overworked, underpaid. It definitely effect their health both physically and mentally. My girlfriend was a world class athlete in high school, now she's 30lbs over weight. She is also one of the most intelligent, calm, logical person I have ever met. Yet the last few years she is often grumpy, and at times just down right aggressive but I am not surprised. What do you expect from someone who is over worked, sleep deprived, and under immense pressure everyday because people's life are on the line.
Luckily, we see the light at the end of the tunnel as there is only a few month of residency to go. I am so proud of her. And through this journey with her I have found new respect for every doctor. The journey of medicine is truly insanely challenging. I say this as someone who runs two fully operational business, and often experience 60~70 hour work week. Becoming a doctor is no easy feat.
Will Shi Thank you for sharing your personal experience with your girlfriend all along the route to her becoming a doctor. Whatever she ends up doing, I wish her better health and in turn, more happiness. I believe that intelligent people often love to challenge themselves to achieve the hardest thing - but then forget to ask themselves why, what the point is, and if there is another path wherein they could still develop and contribute their skills to the world in a way that requires less sacrifice and time but is as influential still. Not often easy these days to pinpoint that path.
5:10 What a weasel that administrator is. "I apologize in front of the cameras, but I'm not changing a damn thing."
He is not a weasel, nor a leader, just a cog in a wheel of the system. In his case there might be a fancy title on his office door and where he parks his car. However any initiative he might once have had got programmed out by the system from the age of 5 onwards. He got to where he is by being a good obedient servant in the system. That is why he just regurgitates questions as apologies, with no comprehension that there is an implication in the question that he should provide a solution; he is not programmed that way. Welcome to the 21st century, controlled by institutitions all run by mindless drones and/or the occasional psychopath.
His name is Peter Rophail and he's the hospitals GM.
He's obviously insisted on name suppression in return for the interview. A ploy to hide from the public (backlash).
The manager of the hospital made me so mad😠. He only said " I apologize " and gave no explanations. This is so disappointing.
That general manager will go back to the hospital department meetings, and start issuing warnings to doctors not to post anything bad about the hospital, or else they will lose their jobs. He will even start to engage legal team to find a way to suit people who do post negative things about the hospital. Typical management.
Seemed like a great career, but in the 1950s! Not now.
how? there were less doctors then...now there are many!
5:10 sounds like a politician
NANGSTAGRAM TV yeah! He wasn’t sincere at all in his apologies. He was just basically going thru his script of what is expected of him to say!!
The Doctor I work for will often work through lunch and maybe get 15 min to eat and then continue working. More care and thought needs to be given to them.
So brave of her to speak out in such a profession.