an amazing and mysterious approximation for pi!

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  • Опубліковано 6 лют 2025
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КОМЕНТАРІ • 65

  • @spasdimitrov6728
    @spasdimitrov6728 Рік тому +6

    (sinx)*(cosx) is just (sin2x)/2, the Taylor Series is easy to find 5:30

  • @franksaved3893
    @franksaved3893 Рік тому +33

    3:25 Engineers

    • @major__kong
      @major__kong Рік тому +1

      I'm an engineer, but I'm more of a 3.14159 kind of engineer.

    • @TomFarrell-p9z
      @TomFarrell-p9z Рік тому +6

      @@major__kong I went to engineering school between slide rules and TI-30's. Memorized 8 digits for my four banger: 3.1415927. (Yes, the last digit is a round-up.) Still remember the friendly warm glow of the red LED seven segment display! And don't forget to bring a spare 9 volt battery to the test, just in case!

    • @Maths_3.1415
      @Maths_3.1415 Рік тому +6

      e=pi=3

    • @hyperboloidofonesheet1036
      @hyperboloidofonesheet1036 Рік тому

      @@Maths_3.1415 pi-e = 3/7

    • @RexxSchneider
      @RexxSchneider Рік тому +4

      A physicist is a mathematician who knows how to approximate. An engineer is a physicist who knows when to approximate.

  • @davidherrera8432
    @davidherrera8432 Рік тому +3

    Just a small detail, In the Newton final fórmula should be 3sqrt(2) in the denominator.
    Great video, as always

  • @goodplacetostop2973
    @goodplacetostop2973 Рік тому +16

    20:49

  • @TheEternalVortex42
    @TheEternalVortex42 Рік тому +32

    This is kinda cool but seems pretty useless when you can get simple rational approximations that are closer. For example, 312689/99532 already gives you a better approximation than the one at the end (and if you were calculating it you still have the issue of needing to know sqrt(3) accurately, which I guess is much easier than pi but still).

    • @sea34101
      @sea34101 Рік тому

      You can get even better approximations by searching "digits of Pi" on Google. I think the actual point of the video is to teach maths.

    • @euqed
      @euqed Рік тому +13

      Those rational approximations come from convergents of pi's continued fraction representation, I think it's cool to see approximations coming from entirely different representations even though not as accurate

    • @warrickdawes7900
      @warrickdawes7900 Рік тому +5

      Yeah, and 355/113 is only better than 1 part in 1 million. Both approximations are good enough for most terrestrial applications.

    • @agrajyadav2951
      @agrajyadav2951 Рік тому +7

      Its cool therefore it's good.

    • @RexxSchneider
      @RexxSchneider Рік тому +3

      It's probably _easiest_ simply to learn a decimal approximation of pi to the required number of digits. I mean I can recite 3.14159265358979323846 from a well-known mnemonic.
      But the easiest way is often the least fun.

  • @wyattstevens8574
    @wyattstevens8574 Рік тому +7

    x= pi/4 for n=1 has relative error of about 2.27x10^-3, and x= pi/6 (still 1) gives 12*(2sqrt(2)-1)/7, which has relative error of about 4.31x10^-4.
    The thumbnail (n=3, x= pi/6) has relative error of 4.13x10^-11 + O(10^-13).

  • @koenth2359
    @koenth2359 Рік тому +3

    The guy's not named Snellins, but Snellius. It is the latinised version of the name Snel (meaning quick).

  • @gavasiarobinssson5108
    @gavasiarobinssson5108 Рік тому +11

    yesterday I saw a cheese going for 3.14. I bought it.

    • @donach9
      @donach9 Рік тому +3

      Did you make a cheese pi with it?

  • @henrikholst7490
    @henrikholst7490 Рік тому +3

    it would be interesting to see this for padé approximations of the basis functions. but that would be even more hard to follow on a black board. 🙂

  • @tokajileo5928
    @tokajileo5928 Рік тому +2

    nice but I do not like the sqrt(3) in the final answer. it is an irrational. would be nicer if it were just rationals in the approximation. You still have to calculate sqrt(3)...

    • @hhhhhh0175
      @hhhhhh0175 Рік тому

      rational approximations to sqrt(3) can be generated very fast with pell equations
      the primitive solution to x^2 - 3y^2 = 1 is (2, 1)
      then for the point (a, b), the next point is (2a + 3b, a + 2b)
      (2, 1) -> (7, 4) -> (26, 15) -> (97, 56) -> (362, 209)
      sqrt(3) = 1.7320508...
      362 / 209 = 1.7320574...

  • @Don-ev5ov
    @Don-ev5ov Рік тому +2

    Yesterday I was reading Dan Pedoe’s Geometry in which he proved the equivalence of Snell’s Law and Fermat’s Principle of Least Time using Ptolemy’s Theorem. I thought "This is something Michael might turn into a video." Today I turned on UA-cam and you mentioned Snell’s Law. Though relatively simple Pedoe’s proof is still interesting, at least to me. As is Snell's Window.

    • @QuantumHistorian
      @QuantumHistorian Рік тому +1

      Calculus of variations would be a nice topic generally for the channel I think. It's clearly very similar to normal calculus, but used in a very different way.

  • @BrianMoore-gp8ot
    @BrianMoore-gp8ot 7 місяців тому

    Do you have any content on hypergeometric series?

  • @zamadatix
    @zamadatix Рік тому +3

    The UA-cam thumbnail is (currently) wrong saying "80405" instead of "80504"

    • @wrc1210
      @wrc1210 9 місяців тому +1

      Thank you I did the calculation from the thumbnail and I was like all that for 3.13? Not even 2 decimal places?

    • @bernhardbauer5301
      @bernhardbauer5301 9 місяців тому

      I did the same.
      22/7 is a better approximation.

  • @fedorlozben6344
    @fedorlozben6344 Рік тому +2

    So,does this system of equations has a solution always?
    I know that we can use the rank theorem and say that rank of the matrix with and without the (1000...) cell are the same which implies that the solution exists,but it is not much obvious i wish...

  • @princechisanga7717
    @princechisanga7717 Рік тому +3

    Wow this is interesting❤. How about (355/113)-Tan(355/113), where do you think it comes from?

    • @MizardXYT
      @MizardXYT Рік тому +2

      That is really close. Error = 6.32792512 ∙ 10⁻²¹
      But calculating that symbolically is almost impossible.
      Similar result for 22/7, with an error of 6.73945∙ 10⁻¹⁰

    • @leif_p
      @leif_p Рік тому +5

      That comes from the initial number being (pi + eps). Tan(pi + eps) will be approx. (eps + a*(eps^3)), so subtracting it will cancel the linear error, and leave you with only a cubic error term.

  • @RobsMiscellania
    @RobsMiscellania Рік тому +3

    I was wondering if you are currently thinking about that Hank Hill sum problem or whatever it was called. It looked to me like there was an underlying theme to the recent videos on the channel and was curious if you were occupied with that intriguing sum. It looks preposterous, that its convergence is unknown, but the more I thought about it the more I saw, and understood that it was reasonable that it is a difficult problem. It still seems weird that someone hasn't shown that the reciprocal cube term totally dominates the reciprocal squares of sines at a given magnitude of n, even though that latter term does become arbitrarily large. But, I guess that's the interest of the problem, we need a proof of that if it's true.

    • @jonathan3372
      @jonathan3372 Рік тому

      I can't seem to find anything by typing "Hank Hill sum problem" on Google, what does the problem want us to solve?

  • @curtmcd
    @curtmcd 4 місяці тому

    I'd be impressed if the number of digits that matched Pi was greater than the number of digits required to express the formula (19).

  • @TonyHammitt
    @TonyHammitt Рік тому +2

    I'm wondering if there's any method to pop out 355/113 ~ pi, or if someone just noticed it was only off by less than one part in a million?

    • @croydthoth
      @croydthoth Рік тому +4

      One way for that one is to use the continued fraction for pi. (Which of course requires you to have a good value for pi to begin with.) The fraction starts out pi = 3+1/(7+1/(15+1/(1+1/(192+...
      Since 192 is large, 1/(192+.. is small, so if you approximate 1/(192+... as 0 you get pi=3+1/(7+1/16) which works out to 355/113

  • @donach9
    @donach9 Рік тому +1

    9:17 that's not right. That fraction gives me an answer of 3.940603027...

  • @thomashoffmann8857
    @thomashoffmann8857 Рік тому +4

    The pi approximation of Ramanujan would be interesting. But it is probably out of reach(?)

    • @thomashoffmann8857
      @thomashoffmann8857 Рік тому +1

      @sarcastic_math343 maybe some glimpse towards that topic would be nice to see.

    • @amkamath
      @amkamath Рік тому

      @@thomashoffmann8857 Mathologer had a more accessible approximation
      ua-cam.com/video/ypxKzWi-Bwg/v-deo.htmlsi=sYr7hmusH9xhd2xU

  • @jay_13875
    @jay_13875 Рік тому +2

    I believe it's "Snellius", not "Snellins" 😅

  • @jacemandt
    @jacemandt Рік тому +1

    Calculus was still in its infancy at the time of Newton. Would he have had access to Taylor expansions like that? Or this presentation in modern terms, when Newton would have thought of it very differently?

    • @joelganesh8920
      @joelganesh8920 Рік тому +5

      I'm not really in a position to say something about this with certainty, but I have followed a course on the history of mathematics. It seemed to me that people like Newton were already aware of polynomial approximations of sin(x) and the likes, but I'm not sure if they would have had a proof of their correctness as we have today. In either case, to me it seems very likely that the method described in the video uses Newton's ideas in some capacity.

    • @tracyh5751
      @tracyh5751 Рік тому +4

      The Madhava series for sine and cosine have been known since the mid 1300's, a good 300 years before Newton was born.

    • @QuantumHistorian
      @QuantumHistorian Рік тому

      @@tracyh5751 Known to someone, but not necessarily known to Newton? I have no idea what the state of maths communication between Western Europe and India was like during the Renaissance.

  • @txikitofandango
    @txikitofandango Рік тому

    There must be a way to invert the matrix of coefficients in general, right?!

  • @txikitofandango
    @txikitofandango Рік тому

    Makes sense that the error at the end (10^-10) would be as good as twice the number of digits in the approximation (5 digits)

  • @sergiogiudici6976
    @sergiogiudici6976 Рік тому

    Sin(x)*cos(x) = 0.5*sin(2x).. It seems not to match the product of the two aporoximation... Why?

  • @hugh081
    @hugh081 26 днів тому

    22/7 quite good

  • @petergregory7199
    @petergregory7199 Рік тому

    Isn’t pi just the relationship between coordinate systems? Doesn’t the fact that it’s not resolvable prove that the systems are not extensions of each other? So exploring approaches to pi gives insights into the shortcomings of mathematical processes. Or am I missing something?

    • @WackyAmoebatrons
      @WackyAmoebatrons Рік тому +1

      No, no, no, yes, respectively 🙂

    • @petergregory7199
      @petergregory7199 Рік тому

      @@WackyAmoebatrons Okay, I deserved that. But my point concerning the nature of π is that it emerges using an orthogonal coordinate system to sum the space bounded by a circle, called ‘Area’. Since π is irrational, it follows that the area of a circle is not ‘on the same line’ as the area of a triangle, or any polygon . It is fundamentally different because the orthogonal coordinate system cannot resolve the boundary of a circle properly. So long as ‘area’ remains tied to axes this will be true. You can’t get round it! Newtonian methods of summing increments of change (ie integration and differentiation) stem from trying to solve this issue.

  • @MrBertmsk
    @MrBertmsk Рік тому +23

    Taylor's expansion for the sinx should be x^(2n+1) not just x^n

    • @paulmccartney2327
      @paulmccartney2327 Рік тому

      Please for the love of god stop messaging my niece on furaffinity. This will be the last time I ask

  • @EarlJohn61
    @EarlJohn61 Рік тому

    But don't forget that for most real life applications 22/7 is an *acceptable* approximation.

    • @maddog5597
      @maddog5597 Рік тому

      22/7 is a horrible approximation, especially when something as simple as 355/113 (note how the odd numbers line up) is much better

  • @0marble8
    @0marble8 Рік тому +1

    Is this how those projects for calculating 1 million digits of pi work?