I really really like this theory. Considering we've already gotten a "Hero Defeated" timeline before, it's not unreasonable to figure another exists since it really opens the possibility for every game to have one (OoT is just the game with the most things that could go bad). It did bother me that I couldn't quite put my finger on a lot of the info given to us to the point I spent a full day immediately after TotK released with the Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia opened in front of me trying to decipher what was happening solely because my brain heard Imprisoning War and wouldn't let me just play the game. IIRC, the masterworks book for TotK coming out in August will make it more clear, so I don't think we have too long of a wait to find out tbh.
Thank you, really appreciate the feedback 😃. Haha I was the same - I got the Creating a Champion book straight out and was trying to make sense of it. There are a lot of inconsistencies so I think the split makes sense - and similar events to OOT occurred (but not the same). Agreed on the new Master Works book - I can’t wait for that! The last one was such a good read, so much care has been put into this world - so it’s great to read up on the smaller details we may have missed. I’ve got a new series coming on the Master Works, if interested, as we build towards the release of the TOTK version in the summer - first part going live later today 👍
The "Fujibayashi Trilogy" line was what sold me. Yeah, if we take into account how we know for a fact there are two branching timelines off of OoT, which would be that there are two sequels with conflicting storylines (Wind Waker: Hyrule was flooded not long after OoT; Twilight Princess: 100 years after OoT, no flood), then I think we should consider the implications for TotK, which presents a conflicting retelling of an event we already know... just like the flood of Hyrule. See what I mean? Tears of the Kingdom presents another instance of the OoT-era Imprisoning War, in a separate timeline.
A big problem I have with this is that the events of OoT had to happen in the world of the Wild Era; Not only are Nabooru and Princess Ruto mentioned, but Aonuma confirmed that BotW is after OoT, meaning that TotK, being the direct sequel to BotW, must also occur after OoT. I propose that the most likely idea is a refounding of Hyrule on the Downfall Timeline long after Zelda II; Hyrule is a mess due to Ganon's invasion prior to LoZ, with people moving on to towns north and others living in caves. In LoZ's manual, the area the game takes place in is referred to as ''a little kingdom in the Hyrule region'' and Zelda II's manual has Impa referring to ''the time that Hyrule was one country'' meaning that the Kingdom of Hyrule as we know it is hanging on by a thread, if it can even be said to still exist. Give it some time for the kingdom to fade into legend, and then long, LONG after, the Zonai come down and Rauru founds HIS Kingdom of Hyrule.
I agree. BOTW and TOTK together at least must take place in the Downfall timeline. I was rereading Hyrule Historia and I found something I haven't seen or heard anyone else talking about. To add to your point, Historia says this very clearly on page 93, "The Hylian Bloodline Weakens: Until the era of the Hero of Time, the kingdom of Hyrule was mostly inhabited by the Hylian people, whose existence was linked to their goddess, Hylia. Hylians possessed a special power: it was said that their long ears allowed them to hear the voices of the gods. However, the kingdom fell into ruin during the Imprisoning War, and the bloodline of the Hylians weakened with the ages, until their existence was naught but a thing of the past. The sages' power also waned, and Hyrule, once called the Kingdom of the Gods, became nothing more than an ancient legend." It clearly states that the original Hyrule we know of conceived in Skyward Sword becomes an ancient legend in the future of the Downfall timeline. The bloodline of the Hylians weakened so much that their nation became almost nonexistent throughout future ages. Virtually 0 Hylians, and no Hyrule to be seen or heard of to the rest of the world. Enter TOTK's backstory, and Hyrule is founded again by the intervention of the Zonai and the marriage between them and one of the few remaining Hylians left-- if not the very last--to restart the Hylian bloodline and build up a nation of the goddess once more. Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it confirmed that BOTW at least is an eventuality of every timeline? Perhaps TOTK as a sequel is only canon to the downfall timeline, whereas BOTW will have uniquely expanded upon contextualizations for each timeline.
My own theory (I've posted it previously). Long one, TLDR at the bottom My favourite placement is actually at the very very beginning, before Skyward Sword for the ancient times part, and that the current TOTK is a merge of all timelines. The only reason we have a master sword is because Zelda travels back in time and receives the sword from Link, so it didn´t have to be created yet in the past with Rauru. Also, Zelda isn´t a common name yet and is first established in Zelda 2, so what if her name came from TOTK Zelda, whose story (legend?) was passed down and that´s why the king first named her that? We also have to remember that the naming convention didn´t come about until The Adventure of Link, which is at the end of the downfall timeline, so every Zelda being named that beforehand doesn´t necessarily make sense either and creating a looping timeline is a good way to justify that. We also know that Skyloft was created because "massive hordes of monsters came from below the ground". Seeing how in current TOTK we have the depths with monsters, and we see in the memories that Ganondorf did in fact spawn monsters like crazy upon awakening as "Demise" you could make the call that when the islands were raised, the original entrances to the depths were also closed off to prevent more invasions from monsters. (I say original entrances because I cannot imagine that the Zonai jumped into chasms to build mines and other structures down there, logically there must have been other, naturally occurring entrances beforehand and that the chasms opened up due to the upheaval, which most likely caused some strong earthquakes) So, Ganondorf is sealed by Rauru and after the sealing, Mineru and Zelda stayed and the land was pushed up for the Hylians to live in the sky with the help of the sages. Sure, it´s said it was Hylia herself that created Skyloft, but Zelda is from a far future where Hylia has an incarnation already so it wouldn´t be far fetched to assume that we´re dealing with an unreliable narrator here and Zelda was considered to be Hylia by the ancient Hylians. Rauru and Mineru were already the last Zonai, Rauru died sealing Ganondorf and Mineru of being mortally wounded, so it makes sense for them no to be in Skyloft. We can assume that the Zora and Rito stayed on the surface but migrated to other, safer lands (which we know exist thanks to Kass and Yona), the Hylians went to Skyloft and the Gerudo mostly fled after their crushing defeat, though Groose´s ancestors managed to get onto Skyloft. But isn´t there only one Gerudo male born every 100 years? Generally I theorize that Groose had an ancient Gerudo ancestor generations upon generations past from whom he inherited the genes to express some of the Gerudo traits. Upon staying on the surface, the ancient Gerudo might have taken notice of a "male Gerudo" being back in Hyrule and wandered back to their lands. After all, a single male creating the entire population of the Gerudo seems a bit... unfeasible and potentially incestuous. With the Groose part of the theory, I would like to call back to the "Gerudo ear theory", where neither Ganondorf from TOTK nor the other Gerudo have pointed ears, but Groose does, due to him having much more Hylian blood in him than the other Gerudos. I would like to think that there were a few Gerudos who have abandoned the way of life where the girls have to go back to Gerudo town, due to loving her family more than the traditions, creating a "Gerudo people with diluted blood". With the races, Groose and the lifting of Skyloft out of the way, what about the imprisoning war? We know from BOTW that Dark Beast Ganon was "hatred incarnate" so we know that the hatred from the cycle can be manifested in different ways. Hence it is possible that due to him being weakened through time, Rauru was not fully able to contain all of Ganondorf´s hatred, letting lose some of it during the imprisoning war we see in Skyward Sword, due to him sensing Hylias presence in Zelda, like he had done years before when he first encountered Zelda during her TOTK memories. She herself goes into her crystal state to try to keep the seal on Demise as best she can. Here, "the imprisoned" is being fought at "the sealed grounds" (which is a weird name to give to a great evil at a place in an uninhabited land). Sure, the shape is different but throughout the years it could be that Rauru´s spiralling energy has carved the Sealed Grounds into the shape it is during Skyward Sword. This hatred is once more sealed, but knowing Ganondorf was willing to go to extreme measures (i.e. eating his stone in TOTK), he made a last ditch effort with all of his energy to free himself as the Demise we see in Skyward Sword, in order to prevent everything later on from happening. And when he was defeated, he spoke out his curse. This could also explain why exactly it had taken SUCH a long time for Ganondorf to regain his powers and rehydrate in TOTK. Of course, the castle was then built on top of the sealed grounds in order to keep Rauru´s seal on Ganondorf intact, hence once more founding the kingdom of Hyrule where Rauru and Sonia had done so far in the past. TLDR; Ganondorf was the original "Demise" when he first created an army of monsters in the memories of TOTK, was sealed on the surface upon which the Sky Islands (Skyloft) was created. Zelda in Skyward Sword gets dragged to the surface, where Ganondorf senses Zelda being Hylias incarnation (like he encountered Zelda during TOTK memories) and part of his hatred breaks free turning into the imprisoned, which is then sealed. In a last ditch effort, he breaks parts of himself free from Zelda´s seal as Demise to fight Link, lose, and start the cycle of hatred all the while Ganondorf´s original corpse is still on the sealed grounds.
See, part of my believed this sort of theory at least a year before TOTK came out. But after the game came out, it's so clear it has minimal connection in this regard. I view it as more of a "soft reboot" of Skyward Sword, while reconnecting the series back to the past. Consider the vast amount of parallel's in TOTK are symbolic either directly of Skyward Sword (of which the story was misremembered) or within relation to it (such as the Constructs). A great example and explanation would be simplifying the depths as "Twilight", the Sky as "Sacred Realm" and the Surface as "Hyrule". Where in the classic entries, these were defined as such, but in Skyward Sword, they replaced each respectively. As for the story of TOTK, it's very clear it's another retelling of the 2011's back story, but in a way that provided more clarity and correction to align into the greater series, rather than have it's own lore (Which, in all honesty, it utilized different lore altogether). Consider that "Hylia" is the depiction of Zelda, as she transforms into the Light Dragon. Consider that "her" sword is the Decayed Master Sword, which in turn get's surrounded by "Sacred Light". Consider that "Sacred Light" is specifically symbolic of the Triforce, of which Zelda has clearly as shown on her hand. Which (much more importantly) relates back to the 1990's origin of the Master Sword, not the 2011's re-telling/"retcon" of the Master Sword. Then you look at the story as a whole. Zelda is brought back to a period far at the start of the first Kingdom of Hyrule. A Kingdom which would have, inevitably, fell as the King & Queen both fell. We can clearly see parrel's to the backstory of Skyward Sword here -- From the "Demon King" being known as no other name (and thus being 'the one of demise/the one of the end'), and we can see the "Spirit of the Hero" being depicted as Rauru, of which became a Hero in the story. Of which, depicts a more direct story at the end of the tell-all Skyward Sword story, deriving the idea that "This is the original backstory of Skyward Sword". In this understanding, "Demise" was always the first Ganondorf, of which never "cursed hyrule", but was a Gerudo with immense power, trapped below the surface in a field far away from the Kingdom. The Kingdom of Hyrule existed on what would be considered the Great Plateau", as we know from BOTW & TOTK -- Where the entire Hyrule Castle & Castle Town is shown from OoT here, with a slightly updated (and different) variation of the Temple of Time in this spot. Remember, the Temple of Time in OoT had an additional room as the "Door of time" stood past it, of which does not exist in either of these two entries. With some basic inferring, we can deduce that the second part of the Temple of Time was relocated post OoT. Here, we take some clues about the classic past of BOTW. We know there was a great sea. And we know that the Sacred Realm (sky) is almost entirely intact (Not a mirror world to Hyrule), and we know the Twilight Realm was intact (And not a perfect rendition of Twilight Princess). Which leads us to the more probable timeline: Adult Timeline. And we can explain the Sheikah as easy as Nintendo giving us the clues. Since we knew even back in the 90's that the race of "Sheikah" were scarce, and something mysterious happened to hem, it shouldn't take much deduction to realize that there was another race below the Zonai who worshipped them, in BOTW/TOTK, known as a war-like tribe, who most utilized their magic in a more attack-driven way. These sheikah would have originally caused an internal conflict just before TOTK's story, of which would have got banished into the Twilight Realm, or rather the "depths", and their servitude there would be to mine for Zonite. At the end of Ocarina of Time, the "adult" ending, we're told one important fact that everyone overlooks. Ganondorf was not sent to the Sacred Realm (A realm golden in light, above the skies), but instead a realm "of pure darkness". He was sent to the Depths, or otherwise known as, the Twilight Realm. As we know from Wind Waker, he found his way out shortly after these events, of which the Kingdom of Hyrule was flooded. Wind Waker happens. After Windwaker, we have "spin offs", but that begs to question -- what would happen if" Hyrule was unflooded, what would the land look like now? Minus the fan created concepts, we have a great idea. BOTW. We need an explanation for Hyrule Castle moving far away from the original location, as it didn't move until far after TOTK's Past. We know this for certain, as the Temple of Time sits exactly where it does intentionally, with remnants of a past Kingdom laying in ruins. The current Castle was created far after each game, which denotes that some specified race, not the Hyruleans, knew of this battle (against Rauru & Ganondorf the First) and wanted to utilize the power of this seal to create technology in order to take over the Kingdom. Oh, yeah, we were told this was the entire intention behind why the Sheikah were banished, weren't we? Lol. Speaking of Ganondorf, Kotake and Koume were significantly younger in TOTK's Past, of which we know particularly why in this instance. It's far before the events of OoT, and we know that Ganondorf was not just a leader, but a powerful magician, far exceeding those two novices on the side. This contrasts OoT, whom raised a young Ganondorf to become the King; He was a "surrogate son". He wasn't "their" son, and he wasn't "their" Ganondorf, he was a replacement for the original Ganondorf. The original Ganondorf, the one in TOTK's Past, had one strict definition of vengeance, pride and hatred, sort of like Demise. Except. With logical deduction from the Ancient Hero's Aspect armor, the "Story of the Calamity", and this information, we can figure out a direct reasoning why. We know the Zonai chose a union with the Hylians, and this should puzzle you on why the Ancient Hero's Aspect armor is entirely different, as in not even the same garbs as Rauru. What if I told you that there was potentially a Zonai who sided with the Gerudo, of which whom also allied with the Sheikah (of the past) to take the Triforce. In which, they battled the Zonai. What if I told you to look at the Tapestry in BOTW/TOTK again, and note the look of the supposed "ganon" in the center. That's not a bore, nor is that a depiction of "Calamity". That's a direct depiction of a Dragon. To the right would be this Ancient Hero. We assume the left is Zelda, but is it? What if I say that the left image is closer to Sonia, and the depiction of the Dragon is nothing more than a Rauru, of which this denotes that the "Acnient Hero" is fighting Rauru & Sonia, not working together? It would also mirror appropriately with the BOTW Sheikah Technology, as all of the Guardians and beasts were all definitively against the player, and thus were "taken over by the Calamity", not the other way around. Now wrapping up the conclusion of this. The story that we know of Skyward Sword would be partially true, but with myths and stories misunderstood over time; With the people of Hyrule believing in Hylia, and the Ancient Hero, primarily due to the Sheikah influence than anything else. Which would explain away the lack thereof this in classic entries before 2011. And finally, something crucial. The Bargainer statues. There's a connection here, which I'm sure people didn't acknowledge yet, but the location of the first one you should find in TOTK lines up with something in Hyrule Historia. Rauru (The 2nd) built the second Temple of Time over "the Sealed Grounds." In effect, what exactly is that area in the depths, and why is the mining operation built exactly over a sealed Bargainer statue? In essence, here's the appropriate timeline: TOTK's Past > Events of Skyward Sword (that was true) > Ocarina of Time (Adult Timeline) > Wind Waker > BOTW > TOTK Present A quick edit: We also knew in past games that a Hylian forged the Master Sword, then the sages imbued it with Magic in order to combat the powers of the Triforce. We also know that this was after the Great war against those who would be the Twili due to the Sacred Realm (sky islands) being sealed. And we know that the Full Triforce no longer is in the Light Temple (The Forgotten Temple, correctly named for Rauru), but specifically in the possession of Zelda & the Royal Family. Before OoT, the Triforce (in classic lore) was only stored in the Sacred Realm, and thus the Temple of Light was created, for all ancient artifacts. The only timeline this occurs is the Adult timeline. In the Child timeline, it's split again. In the Fallen timeline, it's split up into sections and stored in different locations. Only in Skyward Sword was "hylia" possess it (Which symbolizes the time traveling Zelda), and only in Skyward Sword does Hylia provide you a sword to have 'her servants' (the goddesses) to make the Master Sword. While the numerous other games don't imply that, only one game does. To assume the one game has precedence ignores how Nintendo, and even Zelda, works. Consider if Fujibayashi leading the whole show, wouldn't it be more of a direct relationship between these games? Wouldn't it be more fitting for him to connect his first entries into the series, rather than "letting them linger"? It's very probable this was an intended point of what to create, but at the end of the day it was just my theory.
I've loved the idea of TOTK's past being the backstory of Skyward Sword since I first played the opening of the game. I really enjoyed reading this as you go into a level of detail that I haven't seen anyone else give when discussing this timeline placement. Personally, I believe this timeline placement is the most logical and has the least inconsistencies. Purely on a surface level, we see the Hyrule's founding, no master sword, no Link and Zelda, the birth of a Demon King, ancient robots, and the ascension of islands into the sky in order to wait for the chosen hero to defeat the Demon King. It just screams Skyward Sword's past. I also think it has relatively few inconsistencies with the current timeline. The only major one I can think of is the Rito and Zora existing earlier than we initially believed, but that doesn't really bother me. The idea of the ancient sheikah, twilight princess' interlopers/twili and BOTW's zonai ruins being connected has existed since long before TOTK. But I think your hypothesis is the most logical and thorough extension of these ideas to TOTK. The most popular timeline placements for the game (that being a refounding or in a new post-skyward sword timeline split) seem to be incompatible with this, and some of Hyrule's most interesting and dark history would be lost. I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of BOTW's tapestry, but all in all this was a great comment. It's nice to see someone who likes this timeline placement as much as I do. Side Note - the idea of the depths being the twilight is brilliant and will definitely be my new headcannon
You know, this is a really good write up, and I agree with a LOT of it, but I think that there's a lot of sense that comes of mixing both this, and theory presented in the video. I think you're totally right that the Zonai period is Pre-Skyward Sword, but I think at this point, the only way to rationalize it is as it's own timeline. It poses it's own problems, but TOTK Basically tells us that this is the case. Infinite Worlds Theory: In almost every timeline, regardless of his choices, Rauru fails, and Hylia has to intervene, creating the Imprisoned, and sending the people of the kingdom to the Zonai Sky Islands, before erecting the Cloud Barrier, thereby leading to Skyward Sword. Yes, I know that this implies Ganondorf came before Demise, which is going to be controversial for a LOT of people, but like... In his first scene from the Dragon Tears, we LITERALLY SEE HIM guide his Molduga through a canyon. And what is a Canyon but a "Fissure in the Earth"? Demise was supposed to be a Demon King to Rival the Gods. The Secret Stones make the Zonai Godlike in their depictions. Why couldn't a thousand years of retelling have just made him one? But in one timeline, his choices work, and he succeeds. Seals Ganondorf in the depths below what would eventually become Hyrule Castle, and that leads to the Breath of the Wild Timeline. From there, 10,000 Years Later, Ganondorf wakes up, smashes the Master Sword, and Zelda goes back in time, leading to everything we see in the Memory Sections of TOTK, up to and inclusing this UNBELIEVABLY convincing line from Rauru to Zelda-- "But remember, that was a future where you never appeared in this world. And you are here now." And he was right, just in the wrong way. Zelda NOT appearing leads mostly to him losing and Hylia's intervention. Zelda traveling back in time SOLIDIFIES that other course, making it it's own stable timeline. I've got plenty of other evidence for this being the most likely conclusion, but that would make this way longer than I'm willing to write at this exact moment. Thoughts?
Interesting concept, but why do they have a giant carving of Darunia and plaques dedicated to Ruta if they were not the sages during the imprisoning war?
Better theory than the canon one, but there is one big problem, which also occurs in the normal timeline: the hero cannot canonically be defeated. For the lore to work in nearly every game we have to assume that the hero was not defeated. This is a video game, so the player eventually must win, and the ending of the game only plays after he does so. I would actually argue that the hero is defeated timeline should be omitted entirely, and only a child and adult timeline should be used. In the adult timeline, I would put WW and then Ph and Lttp happening a the same time in the same universe, effectively having two hyrules; Ganondorf is defeated in windwaker, and so he moves to the other hyrule where a link to past takes place while phantom hourglass is happening, explaining the lack of ganon's presence in that game. You can probably tell where I'm going with this: the Lttp Hyrule is the same one as botw/totk. Spirit track sees the founding of a new hyrule in this land, and since ganon is defeated in LttP, he is not the villain in this one. After this game I would place BotW. Now, TotK I would put in two different places, since it happens in the past and present. The Imprisoning war for totk I would actually equate with the imprisoning war from LttP. Since the LttP one takes place in the sacred realm, and the totk one in the depths, I will say that these are the same place, and that after LttP the sacred realm was no longer separate from hyrule, instead dwelling deep beneath it, which becomes uncovered during the upheaval in totk. This is not the entirety of my fixed" timeline, so if you have any challenges or questions, seriously, please ask them, since I think I may be on to something here.
I love this for 3 reasons. 1) it takes a core mechanic of the series that fans have been theorizing for years and canonizes it; it takes the timeline split and ties it to the concept of Link getting a “game over” and being able to “restart” his literal power of courage in universe. Instead of it being tied to the time travel shenanigans of oot like it originally was. Not only does it make more sense this way, but it also opens up new timeline splits for every single game where link has the triforce of courage going forward. Every game over now allows for an entirely new game start. 2) my first complaint when watching was the Zonai. But, even though it was explicitly stated in the video, despite saying that the Zonai are “evolved” humans doesn’t entirely work for me, in lttp the dark world transforms hyruleans into strange and often animalistic forms. If demise wins in skyward sword, and the whole world becomes akin to the dark world we see in lttp, then it makes sense the few surviving hyruleans (the people from skyloft) would be warped into the zonai we see in botw. This further connects the theory to more games and solves that problem for me. 3) if it’s true it means that this timeline is over and I don’t have to deal with anymore botw or totk Zeldas. I’m one of those people who think they are absolutely phenomenal games, but they aren’t great ZELDA games. I’m really looking forward to a fresh start apart from them going forward. All in all, this is canon for me now until Nintendo gives us more to go on. Great job.
Aonuma and Fujibayashi already answered that months ago in the No DLC Interview. According to them this Foundation "could be" a Refoundation, meaning Aonuma even puts this new imprisoning War at the End of the entire Timeline after an old Kingdom of Hyrule fell, which is not something entirely new
Yep, I talk about their comments specifically at 1.57 - they leave it to player speculation… and, in any case, my theory still works even if you were to apply this time lapse 👍
It's definitely talking about the flood in wind waker because that's the only Hyrule we know of that's fallen and there's more evidence of botw and totk taking place in the adult timeline then any other timeline
this is a really interesting theory, but i have some points against it im afraid. In breath of the wild were things of all the other timelines mentioned, which in this timeline couldnt even nearly have happened. And even if we consider them as just easter eggs, there is one more great hole in it. In this Timeline Demise would have no reason to put on the curse of reincarnation up on link and zelda. Instead he would curse the Zonai, so that they disappear which makes sense. But if the curse dosnt hit Link and Zelda, there simply can not exist a Link and Zelda at the Time when Ganondorf brakes his seal. If Link in Skyward would have Failed, there could not exist any other link at all...
Here's the thing, they specifically mention an ancient sea with the rock salt in the game. This kinda implies that the founding of Hyrule shown in ToTK is a second one.
Very kind of you - thank you. Really appreciate your comment 😃 I was hoping this video would do better to be honest (spent a few months working and reworking it alongside my day job) but sometimes with YT - the videos I put less time into seem to do better… it is what it is I guess. I’ll stick with it as long as people are enjoying what I upload 👍
I would actually contend points 1 and 2-- the "Secret of the Eighth Heroine" quest does say that there was a Hero in the Ancient Past. And we know that at least some of the Sages are the same... Rauru, of course, but also Ruto, Darunia, and Nabooru, confirmed via their divine beasts & the helms, while Saria seems to have been replaced by Medli and Impa replaced by Minoru.
While I’m more of a timeline merge believer myself I can definitely see the logic in going in the complete opposite direction and doing a 4th timeline. It does remove a lot of issues but on the flip side it introduces others. Still though, quite fascinating.
Yeah agreed, it’s hard to imagine it ever aligning completely - largely due to them only wanting to loosely tie the series together I think. Really interesting to think about - especially as the BOTW Master Works pushed a lot of the games into the “Era of Myth” - which I think gives us some licence to speculate, particularly with the Aonuma and Fujibayashi comments in Famitsu… with regards to the possibility that the Wild era could be so far in the future that Hyrule has been founded again. But I like that they leave it to player speculation. Thanks for watching / taking the time to comment 😃👍
You're very close, but this theory can't work exactly as presented for a big reason: Hylia is still alive and active in BotW and TotK, and if Demise had won in SS, she'd be definitively dead and gone because he absorbed Zelda's power. However, I DO believe you're right about SS making a new timeline, it just has nothing to do with Demise winning. Instead, it's caused by Demise being defeated, but in two different ways at two different points in time. Here's an important detail that many people miss... when Ghirahim kidnaps Zelda to revive Demise and you follow them back in time, the door to the room containing the orange crystal is still shut tight, which makes sense because there's still a Zelda in there reinforcing the Imprisoned's seal at this point. HOWEVER, when you return to the temple after beating Demise, the door is open and the back room is empty, no crystal, and no Zelda. Logically, it does stand to reason that if Demise is defeated early, then the seal would no longer be needed and Zelda would also wake up early, and then open the door herself to leave the room. Furthermore, THIS Zelda is still at full power, because not only did Demise not drain her, but she only had to maintain the seal for a short while instead of a thousand years. Plus she would have Hylia's memories of where the Triforce is, since her whole plan from the start was to become mortal so that she could use it herself and wish Demise away, but with him gone already, she could instead wish to become Hylia again and protect the land once more. Of course, none of this would apply to the original timeline that Link, Groose, and the other Zelda returned to, where Demise WAS killed using the Triforce, but a thousand years later. This is further backed up by the appearance of the White Sword of the Sky in TotK, which unlike other legacy weapons is basically confirmed to be the original Goddess Sword by the fact that you literally get it from Hylia herself, as opposed to just being one of many expendable replicas. It even says that when you break or lose it, she RETURNS it to you, she doesn't give you a new one. The only way this sword could coexist with the Master Sword is in the timeline where Demise was killed in the past. Personally, I would coin these two timelines as the Triforce and Hylia timelines, since those two things are each super important in their own branch and almost completely glossed over in the other. The Triforce appears in imagery in BotW and TotK, but is otherwise never mentioned by name, and Hylia is completely absent in Minish Cap and every game after it, only getting a race and some landmarks named after her at most. Finally, this interpretation doesn't have to rely on an arbitrary "Link happens to lose all his hearts and die" scenario to work. And before you say "But Dowfall exists!", let me counter by saying that the Downfall timeline should never have been stated to branch off from OoT to begin with. There's actually a ton of evidence to suggest that it should branch off from Minish Cap's (less arbitrary) bad ending instead, leading to FS, FSA, then ALttP, and the only reason most people believe any differently is because Miyamoto interfered with the development of FSA at the last minute in an effort to hide its obvious connections to ALttP, and is likely the one responsible for FSA being placed after TP on the official timeline as well, despite that placement making zero sense.
The problem with this, there is a DIRECT reference in TOTK to events from OoT (Ruto, specifically). Also, Ganondorf is Demise's reincarnation, so Demise must have been defeated.
Mipha's journal also references Ruto, alluding to "a Zora princess who fell in love with a Hylian swordsman." Urbosa also EXPLICITLY mentions Nabooru after you free her Divine Beast.
@@mercury2157 Yeah, ultimately we're going to have to wait for the new book to come out to see if it clears up any of these timeline inconsistencies. The only theory I've seen so far that "fits" is that sometime after OoT (unknown which timeline), Hyrule fell, the Zonai came into the picture, and then Hyrule was then later founded again by Rauru.
My personal crackpot theory is that the Zonai are descendants of the Picori from Minish Cap. They have visual similarities with their animal like features, and while the Picori are tiny, they can easily grow with magic as shown in Minish Cap, then change from there over time. Not only are they visually similar, both the Zonai and Picori descend on early Hyrule to bring peace and bestow the power of light on the royal family. Both even have associations with special stones, though kinstones are much less powerful, both have some magic, so I could see the kinstones developing into secret stones as the Zonai grew in power. Especially since BotW and TotK no longer have rupee farming from the grass, and the Picori are said to be the ones who left those as gifts. It could be because most/all of the Picori have evolved into the Zonai (then died) and can’t leave those gifts. I could see this working both with TotK being so far in the future that Hyrule is re-founded or as a unique timeline where the Picori never descended and changed while isolated until TotK. With the distant future, there’s enough time for the change to occur while still having the Picori in the more established Hyrule of Minish Cap- they’re simply too far apart for it to matter. With the unique timeline, the Picori are no longer bringing light powers to Hyrule for simple monsters, so instead they must grow their powers to survive and later help Hyrule. I mean, if a wacky timeline split can cause the Zora to evolve into Rito for Wind Waker, I don’t see why this doesn’t work.
I could see this Dark Age timeline converging with the original 3 timelines where they converge, as all 3 of them also end with the incarnations of Demise being defeated for good.
This is a great chance to have more zelda games take place OUTSIDE Hyrule. If the curse is gone (or never existed) it would make sense for Link to travel to other lands and deal with evils there.
I would propose that the fourth timeline starts with the Interlopers NOT being banished to the Twilight Realm. With the Interlopers dominating Hyrule and becoming the Zonai. There would still have to be a later point in time where the timelines merge in order to explain the coexistence of Zora and RIto in BotW/TotK. But four timelines would make sense, when you consider that would open the door for a new Four Swords game as the timeline merger event.
The hero doesn’t have to lose in skyward sword to split the timeline. It’s already split when you travel back in time, and seal Demise in the master sword..:that means he can’t be sealed in the sealed grounds in that timeline, but it killed by the triforce in the one link returns to. There are two timelines created in skyward sword: the triforce timeline, and the sword timeline where the triforce remains in skillet due to demise being killed by the master sword instead. I believe TOTK takes place in the sword timeline, since there’s no mention of the triforce at all. Also, who’s to say that the Zonai don’t exist in the other timelines? Twilight princess mentions a race that were closer to the creator gods than the hylians were. Those could be Zonai as they too were in the sky. Who’s to say that Hylia herself isn’t a Zonai?
I haven't finished, I'm at 9:41. But you're right. Dude you're right! Something that has ALWAYS confused me about breath of the wild is the inexplicable resurgence of Hylia iconography. There aren't statues to her anywhere in the previous games that I know of, but in this timeline split she's everywhere. Theres a timeline split at the end of Skyward Sword. And that makes so much sense! There was time travel, just like Ocarina!
This theory is actually been discussed a lot before. I even made a post on reddit with my theory regarding this new ''parallel'' timeline. The split however takes places after Demise is defeated in the past instead of Link dying. But yes this is the only timeline placement that makes sense and has the least amount of issues/contradictions. One thing I like is how the Zonai and Minish are very much alike. Both came from the heavens and both passed down their Light Force unto Zelda.
Thanks for watching 👍 As far as I'm aware, not from this angle it hasn't (not that I have seen anyway) - I do think this is a new take. Here I also look at the Zonai origin, why Link / Zelda failed the first time / how this was rectified / Ganondorf's understanding of past events / the other dragons / founding of Hyrule and how it all links together (including with Fi / Skyward Sword). Yes people have spoken about timeline splits but I don't think they have from this perspective. Agreed on Zonai and Minish - love their importance to the storyline. I also think this version of events gives a situation similar to when Link doesn't appear in Wind Waker's past (i.e. the Adult Timeline) and there being nothing to stop the evil invading Hyrule (hence it being buried beneath the waves). All really interesting to theorise on.
@@zelda.kingdom The biggest piece of evidence for me was the existence of the Goddess Sword (White Sword of the Sky). It's the only amiibo item that is given a big quest connected to the lore. This makes it canon to me. The only possible timeline for the Master Sword and Goddess Sword to co-exist is a timeline following SS's past. Here the Master Sword was with while the original sword still resides on Skyloft.
@@M_Dutch97 Neither Aonuma or Fujibayashi (who directed The Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom) have ever suggested a timesplit happened after Ghirahim took a trip back in time and resurrected Demise after his death as the Imprisoned One in the present Era. As far as the story of Skyward Sword is concerned the entire quest Link makes was part of a _preordained_ time *loop* which had already happened in a previous loop as proven when Link meets the old Impa who is already carrying Zelda's _bracelet_ which she gives her at the end of Skyward Sword. Since the time loop had already preordained Zelda giving her bracelet to Impa in the long past that 100% confirms the events of the game all take place within the exact same timeline as a self contained closed loop very much like in Tears of the Kingdom. When Demise dies in the past his death does not affect the events which take place in the present before Ghirahim took Zelda to the past as these events had already happened before said change to the timeline making the sudden change within the same timeline redundant courtesy of the _preordained_ events within the aforementioned time loop. The Goddess Sword appearing in Tears of the Kingdom shouldn't be seen as evidence of anything as the appeareance of other such Lore-inconsistent items like Majora's Mask, Zant's hat and the Fused Shadow which were all last seen either been destroyed or taken away to lands unknown proove they cannot be the exact same items from said games. The Goddess Sword is most likely either an easter egg deliberately added by Aonuma and Fujibayashi after their confirmation that Tears of the Kingdom would not have any DLC like Breath of the Wild (hence no amiibo Goddess Sword) or an act of divine intervention by the likes of the Golden Goddesses and even Hylia who gift the Hero of the Wild with the ability to use the many weapons and items related to the many past Heroes across the timeline.
I’ve seen variations of this theory often myself. And I agree that the best place for it to exist would be where you stated. Demise winning the battle doesn’t seem necessary. Actually, I would argue Demise winning would negate the entire theory because that would insinuate the ending of the bloodline of Hylia as well, which we know to not be the case, via the existence of Sonia (and by proxy, Wilds era Zelda. My other related theory is that the Minish Cap and Four Swords games would be part of a similar timeline split, where the Picori Blade is actually an unforged Goddess Sword that would have still been present in Skyloft.
Ive had this theory for ages. The past zelda of skyward sword was never shown waking up after demise was defeated. So after link and zelda went back to the future the zelda in the past might have woke up found a way to bring the hylians down to the surface and over a long period of time her bloodline giving birth to Sonia and the zonai meeting them and hyrule finally gets founded at around the same time the events of oot would have happened making the ganondorf the same one. Also the past of skyward was where demise cursed the bloodline so the ganondorf taking a demise look makes more sense.
This timeline truly makes sense! Perhaps this is just a better version of the Zelda timeline replacing all the old Zelda games that came from the fallen hero that doesn’t make sense since it never happens if you’re good at Zelda. I can’t wait to see how this new timeline that started with skyward sword unfolds. It may take a long time depending on how many Zelda games Nintendo is willing to make.
It's a good theory. I agree with a lot of it and it's exciting to think that in that timeline, Demise is completely vanquished. It's comforting to think Zelda and Link can be free from the cycle. However I also like to think the references to past games talk about a long past with curse and connect the games of the flood timeline. But it's a nicely constructed theory indeed.
Just in time for TotK's 1 year anniversary. Also this theory was amazing and actually worth considering unlike some of the nonsense people put on Reddit that gets them back where they started. Edit: the part about the Blood Moon resurrecting the monsters... It just adds up.
Thanks so much, really glad you enjoyed it! And yeah, it's hard to believe it has been a year already! Just hope it can gain some momentum with the amount of effort I've put in to this one - looks like I may have lost the battle with the algorithm... Agreed on the Blood Moon - it's never been a concept in the other timelines and is a sign that Demise's evil was never really destroyed, it has continued to pervade Hyrule for millennia.
The use of the term “imprisoning war” should be immediately familiar to longtime Zelda fans. That must be intentional, even though they are different events. This is perhaps the games first hint that things are running parallel to the other timelines.
(atencion: se usan conceptos de la versión de la traducción en español y quizás algunas palabras pueden cambiar en ingles, esta es mi teoría y a la conclusión que he llegado tras encajar todas las piezas de este aprendizaje) SkywardSword se divide en 2 ramas La rama temporal de la trifuerza (minish cap) Y la rama temporal de los Zonan, (donde Rauru hyliano no llega a nacer nunca y hubo una posible destruccion de Hyrule cercana a SkywardSword): 1-ANTIGUA CALAMIDAD (heroe zonan sin sangre de dioses o de la realeza vs "malicia" de nombre desconocido, sin guardianes o bestias... y guerra de los caidos del subsuelo donde los zonan casi desaparecen, tras esta batalla el héroe zonan deposita una espada sagrada en una piedra y la envía al futuro para que tenga más fuerza cuando deba volver a ser usada, los habitantes de esas tierras empiezan a llamar al conjunto de los diferentes pueblos: Hyrule... los antepasados de Ruto, la sabia de la lagrima del Agua, algunos no llegan a evolucionar a Orni, creando la civilizacion Zora... y los kokiri llegaron a evolucionar en los kologs) 2-ÉPOCA DEL OLVIDO -> nace Ganon-Dorf [¿Poderoso-Hombre en gerudo?] capaz de canalizar la magia y es sellado en la guerra del destierro despues de que una princesa junto a una espada dañada apareciera... el dragon blanco se esconde, se cierra el subsuelo, la historia de los fundadores y los zonan es borrada popularmente a los hylianos, llevada a escondidas en secreto por los sabios y el hermano menor de la princesa Sonnia en contra de los saboteadores Yiga que tenian algunos conocimientos zonan, por eso los portadores de las piedras, decidieron elevar las ruinas zonan mas alto de lo normal... (Una princesa Zora escribe una carta de amor a un hyliano "Voe" de gran corazon y este es el encargado en ayudar a las 7 gerudo en contra de una amenaza, evitando su extinción... aún así está desconocida historia cae oculta enterrada y las políticas anti shiok permanecieron por siempre en su cultura) 3-NUEVA CALAMIDAD (durante los próximos 10000 años de una supuesta paz, los sheikah continuamente fabricaron tecnología avanzada y aparece mágicamente la espada maestra en el bosque kolog, llegando a haber 2 en el mismo tiempo... Los sheikah descubren que el nombre de esa antigua Malicia del cataclismo es llamado Ganon, añadiendolo a el mural de la leyenda premonitoria, junto al mal dibujado heroe Zonan y confiando ciegamente en los guardianes manipulables... "Finalmente según Aonuma llega la época más lejana de la saga" ...Nace un chico llamado Link y luego de 17 años la princesa Zelda cita un ritual de profecias sobre posibles pasados paralelos que nunca ocurrieron refiriendose al tiempo, crepusculo y oceano... despues sucederia un desastre que dormiria a link en un letargo de unos 100 años) 4-GANON BOTW (ganon es rápidamente derrotado junto el potencial de las 4 bestias y la espada maestra... las lunas carmesi desaparecen y los yiga se esconden excavando bajo tierra... tras la detencion inesperada de Vah Ruta, en los siguientes 5 años, los sheikah modernos decidieron destruir el conocimiento de los santuarios, destruir los guardianes y reemplazar las torres, en prevencion de que pudieran volverse de nuevo en su contra) 5-GANONDORF DESPIERTA -> las armas de la superficie se deterioran, el dragon blanco es liberado desde abajo o desde arriba y salen unos dibujos en el suelo... se abre el subsuelo junto con algunas ruinas y las islas celestes caen a una altura normal y se generaran unas rocas extrañas en el suelo "los santuarios zonan" que abriran un portal al pasado a la era de la fundacion de hyrule, incluyendo santuarios de segunda planta, los cuales no tienen raices... falsas Zelda aparecen, siendo las mujeres yiga que conocieron a la Zelda vestida de hyliana y los heraldos elementales de ganondorf que conocio a la Zelda vestida de zonan... 5 minutos después se produciría la primera luna carmesí en años) 6-UNA NUEVA LUNA CARMESI (el golem corrupto del abismo del castillo, creado por ganondorf genera los antiguos golems guerreros, capaces de aparecer en estructuras celestes, estructuras sagradas y también capaces de destruir todo organismo, incluido el maligno... el griok real de aura maligna, extiende su poder mas alla, del ahora si, subsuelo abierto y es capaz de generar dragones reales y dragones de diferentes elementos que viajaran a la superficie y al cielo... algunos mounstros excavan cuevas en la superficie liberando los likelike y horroblin, rompiendo la calma de satoly... el templo del trueno emerge de la tierra gruesa invisible y de la arena fina visible, genera un poder a su alrededor permitiendo que los gibdo dejen de estar fosilizados y salgan desde abajo de la arena de los alrededores en caso de no haber colmenas... Días después Link despierta en unas islas en el cielo y de las 2 espadas existentes, el heroe manda una espada dañada hacia el pasado, volviendo a haber solo 1 espada destructora del mal)
Context is key with that interview, as well~ «--I know this is a regular question, but where does Tears of the Kingdom fit into the Zelda timeline? Skyward Sword is depicted as the origin, and Breath of the Wild is depicted at the very end. But Tears of the Kingdom is both a sequel to Breath of the Wild and reveals the story of the establishment of Hyrule Kingdom, so I wonder if perhaps this is now the origin…? Fujibayashi: Without a doubt, the events of this story are set after Breath of the Wild. And fundamentally, we intend The Legend of Zelda series' story and world to not break apart. So I can only say two things at this point. Keeping in mind that premise of not breaking apart, I believe that there is room for fans to think, “So, then, is this a possibility?” If I were to speak only upon the potential, it is possible that although this tells a story of the founding of Hyrule, it could have history that's previously been destroyed too. We didn't produce this in some random way, thinking “would it be interesting to do it this way?”, and this includes things that go unmentioned. So I hope you will enjoy imagining it!»
Perhaps in similar fashion to the Goddess Hylia, the three Golden Goddesses gave up their immortality to become reborn as humans or Zonai, but quickly saw that giving up their immortality was a mistake. They needed to become immortal again, so they swallowed their stones and became the three immortal dragons. And the ritual is forbidden because it grants godlike powers in the Zonai’s eyes. While I do not subscribe to this theory I just came up with, it is interesting to ponder on. Perhaps the Zonai are a race created by the goddesses to watch in their stead, like the angels of the goddesses, but they fell from grace for whatever reason (I theorize an unseen Great Dragon War, hence the dragon bones everywhere all over Hyrule, how the Zonai dwindled in number so rapidly, and why they were considered an “ancient war-like tribe”) But it could be interesting to learn that 3 sages who were the goddesses reborn swallowed the stones to regain immortality
It's an interesting thought, but there's not really any evidence that suggests they're in another completely different timeline than the three already established. Until last year, I was a firm believer in the Child Timeline. However, after playing TotK, I admit I'm more convinced that BotW and TotK take place at the end of the Downfall Timeline.
Honestly this kind of theory is the only one I see working for botw and totk. However, personally I initially thought the timeline split could take place in the time-travel from Skyward Sword and not in a hypothetical situation where Link dies against Demise. In the timeline where Link and Zelda end up at the end of Skyward Sword, Demise is killed/sealed by Link's wish to the triforce. The final battle actually takes place in the past, a hundred years before Link and Zelda are born, in a timeline they will never go back to, as they go back to the present after the battle. I've always wondered what goes on in that timeline, as consequently Link and Zelda are never forced to descend from the skies as Demise is already dead by the time they are born.
The gods who created hyrule in the past games are all zonai dragons now so that makes it a reboot. But then you have the master sword and ganondorf which means it can't be one
When the master works book releases, and if this turns out be be true. Then one has to ask as to why Eiji Aonuma has allowed the popular consensus that he at best doesn't care or at worst is utterly incompetent, to continually persist?
I do believe in the possibility that BotW and TotK take place in a 4th timeline split, but I don’t think it’s necessary for Link to be defeated. Just like in the Adult timeline, he just wasn’t there because he went back to his own timeline and created a vacuum after defeating Demise in the distant past of Skyward Sword
This theory is sound, but only if we accept a certain premise: Infinite multiverse theory. It's for this reason that I actually reject the "Downfall" timeline, official status be damned. That's not to say that there aren't elements of it that DO work. I do believe, as you do, that Dinral, Farosh, and Naydra were originally sentients who swallowed Secret Stones. I also think that there was a timeline split originating in Skyward Sword... but I don't think it's another "Downfall" timeline. I think the split was caused by Ghirahim. Remember how he captured Zelda and took her through the Gate of Time after Link sed the Triforce to completely eradicate the Imprisoned? He then conducted a magic ritual to sacrifice Zelda for Demise's resurrection. Demise was revived, but subsequently slain by the Hero of the Sky. The death of Demise would have created a paradox here! So the timeline splits in order to accommodate the paradox. The actual rules of time travel and timeline splits in the Zelda universe are, in my opinion at least, still up for debate because if my theory holds true then the planting of the Life Tree in the Temple of Time should ALSO have caused a timeline split. However, not only does it not, but everyone who saw the empty plot in the temple (Link, Groose, the Old One, and Fi) all retain memories of the plot being empty before the Life Tree suddenly appeared. This form of timeline modification is an absolute mystery to me, though I've seen it in other forms of media (such as the movie _The Lake House_). I simply don't understand it (yet).
Lots of parts of this really make sense, but a big issue pops up with all of the references to the past games and the characters being aware of them. Sidon talking about her involvement in Ocarina of Time for example is very damming to this theory. As it stands, I simply think BotW and TotK are arbitrarily tens or hundreds of thousands of years after the reconjoining of the split timeline.
The only problem I have with this theory is that then you’d have to have the multiverse theory; I think a better way to think of it would be the other timeline split in skyward sword more akin to oot.
This is certainly an interesting idea, but it feels like adding an entirely new timeline split is a bit excessive. It also doesn't explain why breath of the wild references previous games and tears has armor and references to previous games.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 😃. I know that I could be completely wrong but I think the armour and references can easily be explained - in that similar events, to those seen in previous games, took place (but not exactly the same). The various armour sets are already from games that form part of different timeline branches, so the similar event idea is essentially already a concept they’ve incorporated (even if it was done indirectly by the developers). All really interesting to think about though.
Its confirmed botw is 10k years after OoT, its more likely this is the 2nd founding of Hyrule, with the dragon being oroboros, a repeating cycle with slight differences, they could have lived in the skies during OoT or some period after the original TL which we could classify as the classic TL, and its a move from the decades old games that now become "Legend". We are now in the most current TL of the Legend, the Zonai could have cone to existence afterwords, because alsp remember the sheikah should be extinct, sp the sheikah of the past could be linked to the zonai cross breeding amd then when they came back down crossbreding again and the sheikah resurgence happening, also makes sense why they are so tied to the royal family and they tattoo the zonai eye reaching all the way back to OoT
I think TOTK is a way to try to get us to quit worrying about the timeline lol. We have hints and nods to other games but this one feels disconnected from everything but skyward sword and BOTW.
another though on the video. the hole reason breath of the wilds story took place is because of a fortune teller's advice. who is to say that fortune teller is not twin rova returned to resurect there sealed away sergut child. gives birth to the calamity and then the unsealing of the deamon king. thus bringing every timeline to one where they all happened.
2:01 I have a very big issue with this statement from Nintendo. Placing the games so far in the future that the other games are inconsequential to its story, basically means botw and totk are some sort of reboots while denying they actually are
What I don’t understand: when you play skyward sword as link and go down to Earth u already find ruins of civilisations even with zonai symbols. And they existed before skyloft was created. So where did they come from then
I still don't see any issue with just placing it before OOT. It's what the game says more or less. Stuff like the pointed ears or two Ganondorfs existing are issues but only at first glance, and they're no more of an issue than retrofitting Hylia and Demise into the lore like Skyward Sword did. We just gotta work around them.
They also state that Link’s name is “Link Link” and that the sun had a face in Majora’s Mask in that video 😂 - I don’t think you can take this interview seriously… In any case, it could still take place after OOT in a different timeline because, as I mention later in the video, I believe there could be a convergence point. The timelines still run concurrently, so events can happen before / after in different timeline splits. All just a theory anyway - maybe the new Master Works book for TOTK will shed some light on it? - really looking forward to that 👍
Interesting theory, but I honestly don’t think it needs to be this complicated. If we’re going to hypothesize a timeline split during skyward sword, why not assume it happens the way most theorists believe it happens, I.e. when link goes back in time to defeat demise? One timeline demise is defeated in the game’s present, in another he’s defeated a thousand years earlier. Hence, the events of TOTK’s past can simply be the same event as OOT, just in a different timeline, hence the difference in details. I think it makes most sense to put the arrival of the Zonai prior to the events of SS, as in that game there is already an ancient past full of ancient technology. The series has given us no fewer than 4 ancient races that predate Hyrule, three of which come from the sky and are said to have helped found Hyrule - the latter three being the Zonai, the picori, and the oocca, and the outlier being the laneyru robots. Unless Hyrule was founded 3 different times by different sky races, I think it makes sense to say these races are somehow related, and responsible for the ancient tech, including the laneyru robots. Some have suggested that the Zonai and the picori are one in the same, and that the Zonai didn’t disappear from the world, they just made themselves small. Or, maybe they were always small, and some of them just made themselves big for easier interaction with the races of the surface. The oocca could be from the same world as the Zonai/picori, a companion species. My personal fan timeline goes roughly like this: 1. Hylia calls upon the Zonai to help guide the proto-hylians into a state of advanced civilization. 2. Demise emerges and destroys that civilization, destroying most of the Zonai and sending the rest of them into hiding as the picori where they continued to quietly guide the hylians. 3. The events of skyward sword causes a timeline split. 4. One of those splits leads to the events of TOTK’s past. It actually works out pretty neatly.
i don't know man, i think they are part of the fallen timeline. but i think it's after ocarina of time. if it happened before then no need for the zoni to exist, my thought is it probably takes place after link to the past, and that the depths are the precuser to the dark world or vice versa as it were. though i would say it hinges on in the next game if the zora become corrupted enemies or not.
I really don't like the fallen timeline being a thing, so I definitely don't like it happening again... but skyward sword has time travel so you could use that time line instead
This is all just autism fueled speculation, but Demise's curse suggests he has some control over souls, seeing as how he could bind Link and Zelda to his cycle. Ganondorf's abilities in TotK include creating living evil beings by what appears to be demonic soul manipulation. Could somewhat explain the connection to the poes and bargainer statues in the depths, and how Zelda is able to be returned to human form after the Demon dragon's defeat. After being utterly destroyed, Ganondorf/Demise's grip over the spirit realm would weaken, allowing Rauru and Sonia's spirits to reverse draconification and return Zelda to her human body. There is also the fact that after Ganondorf's draconification, he specifically tries to *consume* the light dragon/zelda rather than simply attack her. Just like Demise tried to do in Skyward Sword. I wonder if his draconification was more of a calculated act than one of desperation, considering the triforce symbols on the backs of the dragons. Maybe 3 the ancient Zonai sages each had the pieces of the Triforce, and used draconification to keep them out of reach of evil. This is what would make it a forbidden act, the fact that it could make the triforce attainable by evil. There's also where the light dragon flies up to as we pull the Master Sword out of her. A place so high up it's bathed in golden light? That could be the Sacred Realm
Its really interesting but another hero falls timeline makes my eyes roll as hard as the first time nintendo farted out a ‘hero falls’ timeline just feel like its lazy Ss already kinda has two timelines the one where they seal the imprisoned and the one where they defeat demise wonder if this idea fits in one of those timelines i just hate the idea of hero falls but i loved so much of what you have here its a lot of fun
No disrespect to the video, but I think any theory that includes “alternate timeline” is essentially giving up. It’s saying the timeline isn’t coherent. Personally, I don’t think that’s true. I think, if anything, the Wild saga shows the history of Hyrule is on a much longer timeline than we’ve given it credit for. For all we know, 10,000 years pass between EVERY separate era, which is plenty of time for everything we know to change. We also know there are *at least* two Hyrules, so we don’t know just how many more there are. Basically, if we’re talking as much as 100,000 years, that’s long enough to explain *anything* without involving multiple timelines.
Gonna have to disagree with you here. *Ruto, Saria, Darunia Nabooru* & *Medli* are referenced in BOTW to have existed in the ancient past. The Divine beast are named after them, and Ruto was said to be a *Sage* that fought alongside the *Hero* against Ganon if you read the *Zora Tablets* in BOTW. I believe the events happens sometime after Rauru founded Hyrule. Considering Koume and Kotake around 400 years old in Ocarina of Time. I believe the events of OOT happens after Rauru sealed Ganondorf in the Depths. Basically like this! TotK Backstory *=>* Sonia & Rauru's descendant is named Rauru and builds the Temple of Time we see on the Great Plateau *=>* 360 years later, the Hyrulian Civil War *=>* Calamity Ganon is unleashed and reincarnated as Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time via Surrogacy from the malice coming out of ToTK into Koume and Kotake's bodies *=>* The Hero of Time and the 7 Sages defeat Ganondorf *=>* Ganondorf is sealed away and either timeline leads into the next Calamity Ganon reincarnation which then leads onto BOTW. It's very easy to place ToTK Backstory because we know there are *2 Rauru's* and *2 Temple of Times* on the Great Plateau. The *Zonai Rauru* created the Temple of Time that we see in the Sky Kingdom/Realm of the Heavens. *Hylian Rauru* built the Temple of Time on top of the ruins from *Zonai Rauru's* Temple of Time. ToTK - TMC - FS - Calamity is born - OOT - (Triple Split) - merger - Calamity is reborned - 10,000 years later - Calamity is incompletely resurrected/BOTW - TOTK - Source of Calamity and Demise's curse has been eradicated. Tears of the Kingdom reveals the source of all Ganondorf's existing, and is the reason for why Gerudo males are born every 100 years. Perhaps every 100 years, Calamity has been incarnating as a Gerudo Male until his full presence is shown in OOT (when Calamity full takes over). I believe a Human Vessel is required for Calamity to manifest, and that Human Vessel needs ToTK Ganondorf's malice in order to create, the next Ganondorf i.e. Calamity. Notice in OOT, the *pink dark portal* underneath Ganondorf's Castle? That's *GLOOM!* Ganondorf of OOT was already planning on breaking the seal of ToTK Ganondorf with Gloom *underneath* the castle of OOT.
Mmm, pretty good theory, albeit seeming a bit shoehorned into the timeline narrative. But all Nintendo has to do is say “Yup, that’s right” and it becomes canon. I would really like to see a “final” Zelda game where Ganondorf becomes tired of being the vessel of Demise’s hatred and decides to end Demise himself. Kind of a parallel to Darth Vader destroying the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.
There were so many possible threads in TOTK that could've tied it to other games. Demise was sealed inside the Master Sword, so the blade breaking could've tied into that somehow. When the game was first revealed, I swore up and down that Ganondorf was going to be the same one from Twilight Princess, due to the massive wound on his chest. But alas, here we are.
This is a very compelling theory. I am all for adopting it as canon and even scarificing the weapons and armors that call back to older games as either replicas or something that gives a satisfying reason for their existence that ties in with this theory. The one point that I'm unable to bridge is your mentioning of the three Zonai dragons helping to seal Demise. While that in of itself is a great hypothesis, how would the three dragons already present in Skyward Sword fit in? They already bear the names of the goddesses/regions of Hyrule, and along with Levias, were also tasked to aid the hero in his mission. Or would they also be in a different branch of the split timeline? I know this isn't meant to be airtight without any flaws, but despite my question above, I'm very much on board with accepting your theory.
The pretty great video it would explain why the triforce isnt around anymore maby the gods took it away after demise took over fearing it would bring further destruction pretty intersting mot gonne lie
My main issue with this is that the timeline is already a mess. Adding another split just makes future Zelda games harder to tie together. I already believe that the original downfall timeline was a mistake. The only reason it exists is because of the idea that Ocarina of Time is the first Imprisoning War (Seal War), which is contradicted by the game itself. The original intention was for the game to depict the seal war, but in the end, it doesn't make any sense to be such. The Seal War never had a hero, which is why the 7 wise men had to seal Ganon in the spirit realm. To "fix" this, the creators of the Hyrule Historia timeline came up with the downfall timeline split. The Adult & Child timelines were set up directly within the games themselves, and make perfect sense in context. Meanwhile, the downfall timeline was created years after the fact, contradicted the games, and was further contradicted by A Link Between Worlds' story. No matter what they chose to do, there would always be contradictions. I imagine the Downfall Timeline was created due to thematic reasons. 3 Virtues, 3 Goddesses, 3 pieces of the Triforce, 3 timelines. But this comes with a more confusing story. The Hyrule Historia timeline puts a lot of focus on quotes from interviews that don't necessarily line up with what's in the games. Minish Cap is at the beginning of the timeline because Aonuma said Four Swords was the oldest game in the timeline-- separating Four Swords Adventures from its predecessor, despite obviously being a direct sequel. And of course, there's the whole seal war situation, as I just mentioned. Messy inconsistencies like this are why BOTW being so far in the future was such a relief. It allows them to take elements from the previous games and do whatever they want. They are forging a new story that can still reference the past, but exist independently. It'll allow them to connect other games much more simply in the future. So the idea of a brand new split would just make everything even more confusing. Especially if it was another downfall timeline, and ESPECIALLY if it eventually led to a timeline convergence. The refounding idea is so simple and easy to understand, so I'd much rather believe that over another convoluted split theory. While it's certainly fun to think about, and it's definitely thematically interesting, it's just not something I'd like to believe.
So… It’s just another “what-if” scenario. Ok, but what’s the difference between that and taking the backstory of Skyward Sword as mere reference and just make an entirely new continuity from there? The way I see it, there really isn’t a point when there have been more than enough splits in the timeline that portrays retellings of past entries. Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess in that order. All canonically connected. However, if you take the adult portion of Ocarina of Time and take it from there by perspective, the timeline splits off and portrays a future of Hyrule that it “canonically” doesn’t supposedly have, leading to Wind Waker. An expanded timeline from the Adult portion of OOT. I still fail to see how Minish Cap goes between SS and OOT despite well-constructed theories, but Minish Cap is also the start of the “downfall” timeline”. Lorulean Historian puts it better than I can interpret. However, saying that Skyward Sword splits if the Hero of the Sky failed to vanquish Demise… that doesn’t make sense because debatably, SS is an entire time loop because that same Link IS the ancient hero mentioned in Skyloft’s legend. So how can he exist in the future if he didn’t defeat Demise in the past? Demise was vanquished in the past swearing his hatred will eventually assume the form of a Gerudo king, but his mindless body reincarnated as the Imprisoned which Link eradicates with his wish of the Triforce at the near end. So why not just… reimagine the lore altogether? BOTW is softened the idea, TOTK solidified it.
There are various thing speaking TotK being set immediately after Skyward Sword already, this doesn't really change even if you consider that TotK would be an alternate timeline splitting off from Skyward Sword either. Primarily, that'd be things like the Sword of the Sages with which they tried to execute Ganondorf in TP being found in a Zonai-ruin from the time of the first Hyrule, but also references to all of the Zelda-games back in BotW during the ceremony in which Zelda made Link her knight. But above all I feel the theory fails in regards to the Master Sword by assuming SS-Link failed because his sword wasn't blessed by Zelda, from what I recall the sword wasn't even in its current form before it was blessed, so the idea that Zelda transforming into the Light Dragon and pouring her power into the sword was a replacement for this blessing just can't be the case because the sword wouldn't be in this form if it wasn't already blessed at some point before this... which makes the idea of Ganondorf just being basically a complete reincarnation of Demise after having swallowed the Secret Stone also make no sense. Regardless of how powerful he is in comparisson to Demise, equal or not, he must've had a different power than Demise to so easily break a sword that by all means should've been able to defeat Demise. Basically everything indicates that TotK is part of the same timeline-branch as all the other Zelda-games we had so far.
The Forest Temple from Ocarina of Time could be the original castle of Raru 🤔 Koume and Kotake are ~400 years old in OoT and a Gerudo male is born every 100. In Tears of the kingdom they are alot younger in the past and dont exist into links future (so they arent immortal) They also tried to ressurect Ganon in oracle of seasons and oracle of time in a botched effort The Ganon in Ocarina of Time could be a duplicated younger version of Tears of the Kingdom Ganon. I would place Ocarina of Time within 400 years after the founding of Hyrule in Tears of the Kingdom. Other theories: - The statues of the 5th race in the depths look like the Mogma, leading me to speculate that they and the ancient Gorons were droven out by Ganons minions in the past. Mogma have history with Bokoblins - I also suspect that the Dragons are Zonai versions of the Oracles of Ages and Seasons Din, Nayru and Farore, they could of also been created to stop the Interlopers. - The Bargainer statues seem to be related to the giants from Majoras mask, and the interlopers / hexed tribe with The remnants being the Gero and Twili - This would put Termina on the otherside of the Gerudo Desert connected by the Kingdom of Ikanna I would suppose when link fell at the start of Majoras Mask he went to the depths - Its also implied the Triforce is forgotten to time, but exists in Zelda and that is what her sealing power is
The last Gerudo leader was the one that was connected to the Calamity. This kinda already puts OoT Ganondorf before TotK's in terms of history. OoT Ganondorf and his Gerudo are considered to be ancient Gerudo that had round ears and orangish red eyes. Something TotK Ganondorf was the only one to retain from his ancestors while the rest of the Gerudo in his army are hybrids. Not even Koume and Kotake who had round ears in OoT had the ancient Gerudo features.
I really really like this theory. Considering we've already gotten a "Hero Defeated" timeline before, it's not unreasonable to figure another exists since it really opens the possibility for every game to have one (OoT is just the game with the most things that could go bad). It did bother me that I couldn't quite put my finger on a lot of the info given to us to the point I spent a full day immediately after TotK released with the Hyrule Historia and Encyclopedia opened in front of me trying to decipher what was happening solely because my brain heard Imprisoning War and wouldn't let me just play the game.
IIRC, the masterworks book for TotK coming out in August will make it more clear, so I don't think we have too long of a wait to find out tbh.
Thank you, really appreciate the feedback 😃. Haha I was the same - I got the Creating a Champion book straight out and was trying to make sense of it. There are a lot of inconsistencies so I think the split makes sense - and similar events to OOT occurred (but not the same). Agreed on the new Master Works book - I can’t wait for that! The last one was such a good read, so much care has been put into this world - so it’s great to read up on the smaller details we may have missed. I’ve got a new series coming on the Master Works, if interested, as we build towards the release of the TOTK version in the summer - first part going live later today 👍
The "Fujibayashi Trilogy" line was what sold me. Yeah, if we take into account how we know for a fact there are two branching timelines off of OoT, which would be that there are two sequels with conflicting storylines (Wind Waker: Hyrule was flooded not long after OoT; Twilight Princess: 100 years after OoT, no flood), then I think we should consider the implications for TotK, which presents a conflicting retelling of an event we already know... just like the flood of Hyrule. See what I mean?
Tears of the Kingdom presents another instance of the OoT-era Imprisoning War, in a separate timeline.
A big problem I have with this is that the events of OoT had to happen in the world of the Wild Era; Not only are Nabooru and Princess Ruto mentioned, but Aonuma confirmed that BotW is after OoT, meaning that TotK, being the direct sequel to BotW, must also occur after OoT.
I propose that the most likely idea is a refounding of Hyrule on the Downfall Timeline long after Zelda II; Hyrule is a mess due to Ganon's invasion prior to LoZ, with people moving on to towns north and others living in caves. In LoZ's manual, the area the game takes place in is referred to as ''a little kingdom in the Hyrule region'' and Zelda II's manual has Impa referring to ''the time that Hyrule was one country'' meaning that the Kingdom of Hyrule as we know it is hanging on by a thread, if it can even be said to still exist. Give it some time for the kingdom to fade into legend, and then long, LONG after, the Zonai come down and Rauru founds HIS Kingdom of Hyrule.
I agree. BOTW and TOTK together at least must take place in the Downfall timeline. I was rereading Hyrule Historia and I found something I haven't seen or heard anyone else talking about.
To add to your point, Historia says this very clearly on page 93, "The Hylian Bloodline Weakens: Until the era of the Hero of Time, the kingdom of Hyrule was mostly inhabited by the Hylian people, whose existence was linked to their goddess, Hylia. Hylians possessed a special power: it was said that their long ears allowed them to hear the voices of the gods. However, the kingdom fell into ruin during the Imprisoning War, and the bloodline of the Hylians weakened with the ages, until their existence was naught but a thing of the past. The sages' power also waned, and Hyrule, once called the Kingdom of the Gods, became nothing more than an ancient legend."
It clearly states that the original Hyrule we know of conceived in Skyward Sword becomes an ancient legend in the future of the Downfall timeline. The bloodline of the Hylians weakened so much that their nation became almost nonexistent throughout future ages. Virtually 0 Hylians, and no Hyrule to be seen or heard of to the rest of the world.
Enter TOTK's backstory, and Hyrule is founded again by the intervention of the Zonai and the marriage between them and one of the few remaining Hylians left-- if not the very last--to restart the Hylian bloodline and build up a nation of the goddess once more.
Now, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it confirmed that BOTW at least is an eventuality of every timeline? Perhaps TOTK as a sequel is only canon to the downfall timeline, whereas BOTW will have uniquely expanded upon contextualizations for each timeline.
But the timeline split after ocarina was mentioned. All three line where mentioned.
Its a second founding of Hyrule tens of thousands of years after OoT
My own theory (I've posted it previously). Long one, TLDR at the bottom
My favourite placement is actually at the very very beginning, before Skyward Sword for the ancient times part, and that the current TOTK is a merge of all timelines.
The only reason we have a master sword is because Zelda travels back in time and receives the sword from Link, so it didn´t have to be created yet in the past with Rauru. Also, Zelda isn´t a common name yet and is first established in Zelda 2, so what if her name came from TOTK Zelda, whose story (legend?) was passed down and that´s why the king first named her that?
We also have to remember that the naming convention didn´t come about until The Adventure of Link, which is at the end of the downfall timeline, so every Zelda being named that beforehand doesn´t necessarily make sense either and creating a looping timeline is a good way to justify that.
We also know that Skyloft was created because "massive hordes of monsters came from below the ground". Seeing how in current TOTK we have the depths with monsters, and we see in the memories that Ganondorf did in fact spawn monsters like crazy upon awakening as "Demise" you could make the call that when the islands were raised, the original entrances to the depths were also closed off to prevent more invasions from monsters. (I say original entrances because I cannot imagine that the Zonai jumped into chasms to build mines and other structures down there, logically there must have been other, naturally occurring entrances beforehand and that the chasms opened up due to the upheaval, which most likely caused some strong earthquakes)
So, Ganondorf is sealed by Rauru and after the sealing, Mineru and Zelda stayed and the land was pushed up for the Hylians to live in the sky with the help of the sages. Sure, it´s said it was Hylia herself that created Skyloft, but Zelda is from a far future where Hylia has an incarnation already so it wouldn´t be far fetched to assume that we´re dealing with an unreliable narrator here and Zelda was considered to be Hylia by the ancient Hylians.
Rauru and Mineru were already the last Zonai, Rauru died sealing Ganondorf and Mineru of being mortally wounded, so it makes sense for them no to be in Skyloft.
We can assume that the Zora and Rito stayed on the surface but migrated to other, safer lands (which we know exist thanks to Kass and Yona), the Hylians went to Skyloft and the Gerudo mostly fled after their crushing defeat, though Groose´s ancestors managed to get onto Skyloft.
But isn´t there only one Gerudo male born every 100 years? Generally I theorize that Groose had an ancient Gerudo ancestor generations upon generations past from whom he inherited the genes to express some of the Gerudo traits. Upon staying on the surface, the ancient Gerudo might have taken notice of a "male Gerudo" being back in Hyrule and wandered back to their lands. After all, a single male creating the entire population of the Gerudo seems a bit... unfeasible and potentially incestuous.
With the Groose part of the theory, I would like to call back to the "Gerudo ear theory", where neither Ganondorf from TOTK nor the other Gerudo have pointed ears, but Groose does, due to him having much more Hylian blood in him than the other Gerudos. I would like to think that there were a few Gerudos who have abandoned the way of life where the girls have to go back to Gerudo town, due to loving her family more than the traditions, creating a "Gerudo people with diluted blood".
With the races, Groose and the lifting of Skyloft out of the way, what about the imprisoning war?
We know from BOTW that Dark Beast Ganon was "hatred incarnate" so we know that the hatred from the cycle can be manifested in different ways. Hence it is possible that due to him being weakened through time, Rauru was not fully able to contain all of Ganondorf´s hatred, letting lose some of it during the imprisoning war we see in Skyward Sword, due to him sensing Hylias presence in Zelda, like he had done years before when he first encountered Zelda during her TOTK memories.
She herself goes into her crystal state to try to keep the seal on Demise as best she can.
Here, "the imprisoned" is being fought at "the sealed grounds" (which is a weird name to give to a great evil at a place in an uninhabited land). Sure, the shape is different but throughout the years it could be that Rauru´s spiralling energy has carved the Sealed Grounds into the shape it is during Skyward Sword. This hatred is once more sealed, but knowing Ganondorf was willing to go to extreme measures (i.e. eating his stone in TOTK), he made a last ditch effort with all of his energy to free himself as the Demise we see in Skyward Sword, in order to prevent everything later on from happening.
And when he was defeated, he spoke out his curse. This could also explain why exactly it had taken SUCH a long time for Ganondorf to regain his powers and rehydrate in TOTK. Of course, the castle was then built on top of the sealed grounds in order to keep Rauru´s seal on Ganondorf intact, hence once more founding the kingdom of Hyrule where Rauru and Sonia had done so far in the past.
TLDR; Ganondorf was the original "Demise" when he first created an army of monsters in the memories of TOTK, was sealed on the surface upon which the Sky Islands (Skyloft) was created. Zelda in Skyward Sword gets dragged to the surface, where Ganondorf senses Zelda being Hylias incarnation (like he encountered Zelda during TOTK memories) and part of his hatred breaks free turning into the imprisoned, which is then sealed. In a last ditch effort, he breaks parts of himself free from Zelda´s seal as Demise to fight Link, lose, and start the cycle of hatred all the while Ganondorf´s original corpse is still on the sealed grounds.
See, part of my believed this sort of theory at least a year before TOTK came out. But after the game came out, it's so clear it has minimal connection in this regard.
I view it as more of a "soft reboot" of Skyward Sword, while reconnecting the series back to the past.
Consider the vast amount of parallel's in TOTK are symbolic either directly of Skyward Sword (of which the story was misremembered) or within relation to it (such as the Constructs).
A great example and explanation would be simplifying the depths as "Twilight", the Sky as "Sacred Realm" and the Surface as "Hyrule". Where in the classic entries, these were defined as such, but in Skyward Sword, they replaced each respectively.
As for the story of TOTK, it's very clear it's another retelling of the 2011's back story, but in a way that provided more clarity and correction to align into the greater series, rather than have it's own lore (Which, in all honesty, it utilized different lore altogether).
Consider that "Hylia" is the depiction of Zelda, as she transforms into the Light Dragon.
Consider that "her" sword is the Decayed Master Sword, which in turn get's surrounded by "Sacred Light".
Consider that "Sacred Light" is specifically symbolic of the Triforce, of which Zelda has clearly as shown on her hand. Which (much more importantly) relates back to the 1990's origin of the Master Sword, not the 2011's re-telling/"retcon" of the Master Sword.
Then you look at the story as a whole. Zelda is brought back to a period far at the start of the first Kingdom of Hyrule. A Kingdom which would have, inevitably, fell as the King & Queen both fell. We can clearly see parrel's to the backstory of Skyward Sword here -- From the "Demon King" being known as no other name (and thus being 'the one of demise/the one of the end'), and we can see the "Spirit of the Hero" being depicted as Rauru, of which became a Hero in the story. Of which, depicts a more direct story at the end of the tell-all Skyward Sword story, deriving the idea that "This is the original backstory of Skyward Sword".
In this understanding, "Demise" was always the first Ganondorf, of which never "cursed hyrule", but was a Gerudo with immense power, trapped below the surface in a field far away from the Kingdom.
The Kingdom of Hyrule existed on what would be considered the Great Plateau", as we know from BOTW & TOTK -- Where the entire Hyrule Castle & Castle Town is shown from OoT here, with a slightly updated (and different) variation of the Temple of Time in this spot. Remember, the Temple of Time in OoT had an additional room as the "Door of time" stood past it, of which does not exist in either of these two entries. With some basic inferring, we can deduce that the second part of the Temple of Time was relocated post OoT.
Here, we take some clues about the classic past of BOTW. We know there was a great sea. And we know that the Sacred Realm (sky) is almost entirely intact (Not a mirror world to Hyrule), and we know the Twilight Realm was intact (And not a perfect rendition of Twilight Princess).
Which leads us to the more probable timeline: Adult Timeline.
And we can explain the Sheikah as easy as Nintendo giving us the clues.
Since we knew even back in the 90's that the race of "Sheikah" were scarce, and something mysterious happened to hem, it shouldn't take much deduction to realize that there was another race below the Zonai who worshipped them, in BOTW/TOTK, known as a war-like tribe, who most utilized their magic in a more attack-driven way.
These sheikah would have originally caused an internal conflict just before TOTK's story, of which would have got banished into the Twilight Realm, or rather the "depths", and their servitude there would be to mine for Zonite.
At the end of Ocarina of Time, the "adult" ending, we're told one important fact that everyone overlooks. Ganondorf was not sent to the Sacred Realm (A realm golden in light, above the skies), but instead a realm "of pure darkness". He was sent to the Depths, or otherwise known as, the Twilight Realm.
As we know from Wind Waker, he found his way out shortly after these events, of which the Kingdom of Hyrule was flooded. Wind Waker happens.
After Windwaker, we have "spin offs", but that begs to question -- what would happen if" Hyrule was unflooded, what would the land look like now? Minus the fan created concepts, we have a great idea. BOTW.
We need an explanation for Hyrule Castle moving far away from the original location, as it didn't move until far after TOTK's Past. We know this for certain, as the Temple of Time sits exactly where it does intentionally, with remnants of a past Kingdom laying in ruins. The current Castle was created far after each game, which denotes that some specified race, not the Hyruleans, knew of this battle (against Rauru & Ganondorf the First) and wanted to utilize the power of this seal to create technology in order to take over the Kingdom. Oh, yeah, we were told this was the entire intention behind why the Sheikah were banished, weren't we? Lol.
Speaking of Ganondorf, Kotake and Koume were significantly younger in TOTK's Past, of which we know particularly why in this instance. It's far before the events of OoT, and we know that Ganondorf was not just a leader, but a powerful magician, far exceeding those two novices on the side. This contrasts OoT, whom raised a young Ganondorf to become the King; He was a "surrogate son". He wasn't "their" son, and he wasn't "their" Ganondorf, he was a replacement for the original Ganondorf. The original Ganondorf, the one in TOTK's Past, had one strict definition of vengeance, pride and hatred, sort of like Demise.
Except. With logical deduction from the Ancient Hero's Aspect armor, the "Story of the Calamity", and this information, we can figure out a direct reasoning why.
We know the Zonai chose a union with the Hylians, and this should puzzle you on why the Ancient Hero's Aspect armor is entirely different, as in not even the same garbs as Rauru.
What if I told you that there was potentially a Zonai who sided with the Gerudo, of which whom also allied with the Sheikah (of the past) to take the Triforce. In which, they battled the Zonai.
What if I told you to look at the Tapestry in BOTW/TOTK again, and note the look of the supposed "ganon" in the center. That's not a bore, nor is that a depiction of "Calamity". That's a direct depiction of a Dragon. To the right would be this Ancient Hero. We assume the left is Zelda, but is it? What if I say that the left image is closer to Sonia, and the depiction of the Dragon is nothing more than a Rauru, of which this denotes that the "Acnient Hero" is fighting Rauru & Sonia, not working together?
It would also mirror appropriately with the BOTW Sheikah Technology, as all of the Guardians and beasts were all definitively against the player, and thus were "taken over by the Calamity", not the other way around.
Now wrapping up the conclusion of this. The story that we know of Skyward Sword would be partially true, but with myths and stories misunderstood over time; With the people of Hyrule believing in Hylia, and the Ancient Hero, primarily due to the Sheikah influence than anything else. Which would explain away the lack thereof this in classic entries before 2011.
And finally, something crucial. The Bargainer statues. There's a connection here, which I'm sure people didn't acknowledge yet, but the location of the first one you should find in TOTK lines up with something in Hyrule Historia. Rauru (The 2nd) built the second Temple of Time over "the Sealed Grounds." In effect, what exactly is that area in the depths, and why is the mining operation built exactly over a sealed Bargainer statue?
In essence, here's the appropriate timeline:
TOTK's Past > Events of Skyward Sword (that was true) > Ocarina of Time (Adult Timeline) > Wind Waker > BOTW > TOTK Present
A quick edit: We also knew in past games that a Hylian forged the Master Sword, then the sages imbued it with Magic in order to combat the powers of the Triforce.
We also know that this was after the Great war against those who would be the Twili due to the Sacred Realm (sky islands) being sealed.
And we know that the Full Triforce no longer is in the Light Temple (The Forgotten Temple, correctly named for Rauru), but specifically in the possession of Zelda & the Royal Family.
Before OoT, the Triforce (in classic lore) was only stored in the Sacred Realm, and thus the Temple of Light was created, for all ancient artifacts.
The only timeline this occurs is the Adult timeline.
In the Child timeline, it's split again.
In the Fallen timeline, it's split up into sections and stored in different locations.
Only in Skyward Sword was "hylia" possess it (Which symbolizes the time traveling Zelda), and only in Skyward Sword does Hylia provide you a sword to have 'her servants' (the goddesses) to make the Master Sword. While the numerous other games don't imply that, only one game does. To assume the one game has precedence ignores how Nintendo, and even Zelda, works. Consider if Fujibayashi leading the whole show, wouldn't it be more of a direct relationship between these games? Wouldn't it be more fitting for him to connect his first entries into the series, rather than "letting them linger"?
It's very probable this was an intended point of what to create, but at the end of the day it was just my theory.
I've loved the idea of TOTK's past being the backstory of Skyward Sword since I first played the opening of the game. I really enjoyed reading this as you go into a level of detail that I haven't seen anyone else give when discussing this timeline placement.
Personally, I believe this timeline placement is the most logical and has the least inconsistencies. Purely on a surface level, we see the Hyrule's founding, no master sword, no Link and Zelda, the birth of a Demon King, ancient robots, and the ascension of islands into the sky in order to wait for the chosen hero to defeat the Demon King. It just screams Skyward Sword's past.
I also think it has relatively few inconsistencies with the current timeline. The only major one I can think of is the Rito and Zora existing earlier than we initially believed, but that doesn't really bother me.
The idea of the ancient sheikah, twilight princess' interlopers/twili and BOTW's zonai ruins being connected has existed since long before TOTK. But I think your hypothesis is the most logical and thorough extension of these ideas to TOTK.
The most popular timeline placements for the game (that being a refounding or in a new post-skyward sword timeline split) seem to be incompatible with this, and some of Hyrule's most interesting and dark history would be lost.
I'm not sure I agree with your interpretation of BOTW's tapestry, but all in all this was a great comment. It's nice to see someone who likes this timeline placement as much as I do.
Side Note - the idea of the depths being the twilight is brilliant and will definitely be my new headcannon
You know, this is a really good write up, and I agree with a LOT of it, but I think that there's a lot of sense that comes of mixing both this, and theory presented in the video. I think you're totally right that the Zonai period is Pre-Skyward Sword, but I think at this point, the only way to rationalize it is as it's own timeline. It poses it's own problems, but TOTK Basically tells us that this is the case.
Infinite Worlds Theory: In almost every timeline, regardless of his choices, Rauru fails, and Hylia has to intervene, creating the Imprisoned, and sending the people of the kingdom to the Zonai Sky Islands, before erecting the Cloud Barrier, thereby leading to Skyward Sword. Yes, I know that this implies Ganondorf came before Demise, which is going to be controversial for a LOT of people, but like... In his first scene from the Dragon Tears, we LITERALLY SEE HIM guide his Molduga through a canyon. And what is a Canyon but a "Fissure in the Earth"? Demise was supposed to be a Demon King to Rival the Gods. The Secret Stones make the Zonai Godlike in their depictions. Why couldn't a thousand years of retelling have just made him one?
But in one timeline, his choices work, and he succeeds. Seals Ganondorf in the depths below what would eventually become Hyrule Castle, and that leads to the Breath of the Wild Timeline. From there, 10,000 Years Later, Ganondorf wakes up, smashes the Master Sword, and Zelda goes back in time, leading to everything we see in the Memory Sections of TOTK, up to and inclusing this UNBELIEVABLY convincing line from Rauru to Zelda--
"But remember, that was a future where you never appeared in this world. And you are here now."
And he was right, just in the wrong way. Zelda NOT appearing leads mostly to him losing and Hylia's intervention. Zelda traveling back in time SOLIDIFIES that other course, making it it's own stable timeline.
I've got plenty of other evidence for this being the most likely conclusion, but that would make this way longer than I'm willing to write at this exact moment. Thoughts?
Interesting concept, but why do they have a giant carving of Darunia and plaques dedicated to Ruta if they were not the sages during the imprisoning war?
Better theory than the canon one, but there is one big problem, which also occurs in the normal timeline: the hero cannot canonically be defeated. For the lore to work in nearly every game we have to assume that the hero was not defeated. This is a video game, so the player eventually must win, and the ending of the game only plays after he does so. I would actually argue that the hero is defeated timeline should be omitted entirely, and only a child and adult timeline should be used. In the adult timeline, I would put WW and then Ph and Lttp happening a the same time in the same universe, effectively having two hyrules; Ganondorf is defeated in windwaker, and so he moves to the other hyrule where a link to past takes place while phantom hourglass is happening, explaining the lack of ganon's presence in that game. You can probably tell where I'm going with this: the Lttp Hyrule is the same one as botw/totk. Spirit track sees the founding of a new hyrule in this land, and since ganon is defeated in LttP, he is not the villain in this one. After this game I would place BotW. Now, TotK I would put in two different places, since it happens in the past and present. The Imprisoning war for totk I would actually equate with the imprisoning war from LttP. Since the LttP one takes place in the sacred realm, and the totk one in the depths, I will say that these are the same place, and that after LttP the sacred realm was no longer separate from hyrule, instead dwelling deep beneath it, which becomes uncovered during the upheaval in totk. This is not the entirety of my fixed" timeline, so if you have any challenges or questions, seriously, please ask them, since I think I may be on to something here.
Great video, you've got me really excited for the future of the franchise and where the Zelda team will go from here onward.
I love this for 3 reasons.
1) it takes a core mechanic of the series that fans have been theorizing for years and canonizes it; it takes the timeline split and ties it to the concept of Link getting a “game over” and being able to “restart” his literal power of courage in universe. Instead of it being tied to the time travel shenanigans of oot like it originally was. Not only does it make more sense this way, but it also opens up new timeline splits for every single game where link has the triforce of courage going forward. Every game over now allows for an entirely new game start.
2) my first complaint when watching was the Zonai. But, even though it was explicitly stated in the video, despite saying that the Zonai are “evolved” humans doesn’t entirely work for me, in lttp the dark world transforms hyruleans into strange and often animalistic forms. If demise wins in skyward sword, and the whole world becomes akin to the dark world we see in lttp, then it makes sense the few surviving hyruleans (the people from skyloft) would be warped into the zonai we see in botw. This further connects the theory to more games and solves that problem for me.
3) if it’s true it means that this timeline is over and I don’t have to deal with anymore botw or totk Zeldas. I’m one of those people who think they are absolutely phenomenal games, but they aren’t great ZELDA games. I’m really looking forward to a fresh start apart from them going forward.
All in all, this is canon for me now until Nintendo gives us more to go on. Great job.
Aonuma and Fujibayashi already answered that months ago in the No DLC Interview.
According to them this Foundation "could be" a Refoundation, meaning Aonuma even puts this new imprisoning War at the End of the entire Timeline after an old Kingdom of Hyrule fell, which is not something entirely new
Yep, I talk about their comments specifically at 1.57 - they leave it to player speculation… and, in any case, my theory still works even if you were to apply this time lapse 👍
It's definitely talking about the flood in wind waker because that's the only Hyrule we know of that's fallen and there's more evidence of botw and totk taking place in the adult timeline then any other timeline
this is a really interesting theory, but i have some points against it im afraid. In breath of the wild were things of all the other timelines mentioned, which in this timeline couldnt even nearly have happened. And even if we consider them as just easter eggs, there is one more great hole in it. In this Timeline Demise would have no reason to put on the curse of reincarnation up on link and zelda. Instead he would curse the Zonai, so that they disappear which makes sense. But if the curse dosnt hit Link and Zelda, there simply can not exist a Link and Zelda at the Time when Ganondorf brakes his seal. If Link in Skyward would have Failed, there could not exist any other link at all...
You gotta admit... this makes a LOT of sense. This can even explain the origins of the Hero's Aspect.
Yeah!
Here's the thing, they specifically mention an ancient sea with the rock salt in the game. This kinda implies that the founding of Hyrule shown in ToTK is a second one.
I love this theory. And I hope Zelda and Link can finally have a happy life and not worry about the cycle anymore.
Cool Theory, Bro!
Also, how don't you have 1,000 subscribers yet !? You more than deserve it
Very kind of you - thank you. Really appreciate your comment 😃 I was hoping this video would do better to be honest (spent a few months working and reworking it alongside my day job) but sometimes with YT - the videos I put less time into seem to do better… it is what it is I guess. I’ll stick with it as long as people are enjoying what I upload 👍
Hyrule never recovering truly after OoT was a really good point
I would actually contend points 1 and 2-- the "Secret of the Eighth Heroine" quest does say that there was a Hero in the Ancient Past. And we know that at least some of the Sages are the same... Rauru, of course, but also Ruto, Darunia, and Nabooru, confirmed via their divine beasts & the helms, while Saria seems to have been replaced by Medli and Impa replaced by Minoru.
While I’m more of a timeline merge believer myself I can definitely see the logic in going in the complete opposite direction and doing a 4th timeline. It does remove a lot of issues but on the flip side it introduces others. Still though, quite fascinating.
Yeah agreed, it’s hard to imagine it ever aligning completely - largely due to them only wanting to loosely tie the series together I think. Really interesting to think about - especially as the BOTW Master Works pushed a lot of the games into the “Era of Myth” - which I think gives us some licence to speculate, particularly with the Aonuma and Fujibayashi comments in Famitsu… with regards to the possibility that the Wild era could be so far in the future that Hyrule has been founded again. But I like that they leave it to player speculation. Thanks for watching / taking the time to comment 😃👍
I love your idea of the time line and this new explanation will allow me to go back to ToTK and complete it 🎉
You're very close, but this theory can't work exactly as presented for a big reason: Hylia is still alive and active in BotW and TotK, and if Demise had won in SS, she'd be definitively dead and gone because he absorbed Zelda's power. However, I DO believe you're right about SS making a new timeline, it just has nothing to do with Demise winning. Instead, it's caused by Demise being defeated, but in two different ways at two different points in time.
Here's an important detail that many people miss... when Ghirahim kidnaps Zelda to revive Demise and you follow them back in time, the door to the room containing the orange crystal is still shut tight, which makes sense because there's still a Zelda in there reinforcing the Imprisoned's seal at this point. HOWEVER, when you return to the temple after beating Demise, the door is open and the back room is empty, no crystal, and no Zelda. Logically, it does stand to reason that if Demise is defeated early, then the seal would no longer be needed and Zelda would also wake up early, and then open the door herself to leave the room. Furthermore, THIS Zelda is still at full power, because not only did Demise not drain her, but she only had to maintain the seal for a short while instead of a thousand years. Plus she would have Hylia's memories of where the Triforce is, since her whole plan from the start was to become mortal so that she could use it herself and wish Demise away, but with him gone already, she could instead wish to become Hylia again and protect the land once more. Of course, none of this would apply to the original timeline that Link, Groose, and the other Zelda returned to, where Demise WAS killed using the Triforce, but a thousand years later.
This is further backed up by the appearance of the White Sword of the Sky in TotK, which unlike other legacy weapons is basically confirmed to be the original Goddess Sword by the fact that you literally get it from Hylia herself, as opposed to just being one of many expendable replicas. It even says that when you break or lose it, she RETURNS it to you, she doesn't give you a new one. The only way this sword could coexist with the Master Sword is in the timeline where Demise was killed in the past.
Personally, I would coin these two timelines as the Triforce and Hylia timelines, since those two things are each super important in their own branch and almost completely glossed over in the other. The Triforce appears in imagery in BotW and TotK, but is otherwise never mentioned by name, and Hylia is completely absent in Minish Cap and every game after it, only getting a race and some landmarks named after her at most.
Finally, this interpretation doesn't have to rely on an arbitrary "Link happens to lose all his hearts and die" scenario to work. And before you say "But Dowfall exists!", let me counter by saying that the Downfall timeline should never have been stated to branch off from OoT to begin with. There's actually a ton of evidence to suggest that it should branch off from Minish Cap's (less arbitrary) bad ending instead, leading to FS, FSA, then ALttP, and the only reason most people believe any differently is because Miyamoto interfered with the development of FSA at the last minute in an effort to hide its obvious connections to ALttP, and is likely the one responsible for FSA being placed after TP on the official timeline as well, despite that placement making zero sense.
This makes the most sense to me
The problem with this, there is a DIRECT reference in TOTK to events from OoT (Ruto, specifically). Also, Ganondorf is Demise's reincarnation, so Demise must have been defeated.
Mipha's journal also references Ruto, alluding to "a Zora princess who fell in love with a Hylian swordsman." Urbosa also EXPLICITLY mentions Nabooru after you free her Divine Beast.
@@mercury2157 Yeah, ultimately we're going to have to wait for the new book to come out to see if it clears up any of these timeline inconsistencies. The only theory I've seen so far that "fits" is that sometime after OoT (unknown which timeline), Hyrule fell, the Zonai came into the picture, and then Hyrule was then later founded again by Rauru.
My personal crackpot theory is that the Zonai are descendants of the Picori from Minish Cap. They have visual similarities with their animal like features, and while the Picori are tiny, they can easily grow with magic as shown in Minish Cap, then change from there over time. Not only are they visually similar, both the Zonai and Picori descend on early Hyrule to bring peace and bestow the power of light on the royal family. Both even have associations with special stones, though kinstones are much less powerful, both have some magic, so I could see the kinstones developing into secret stones as the Zonai grew in power. Especially since BotW and TotK no longer have rupee farming from the grass, and the Picori are said to be the ones who left those as gifts. It could be because most/all of the Picori have evolved into the Zonai (then died) and can’t leave those gifts.
I could see this working both with TotK being so far in the future that Hyrule is re-founded or as a unique timeline where the Picori never descended and changed while isolated until TotK. With the distant future, there’s enough time for the change to occur while still having the Picori in the more established Hyrule of Minish Cap- they’re simply too far apart for it to matter. With the unique timeline, the Picori are no longer bringing light powers to Hyrule for simple monsters, so instead they must grow their powers to survive and later help Hyrule.
I mean, if a wacky timeline split can cause the Zora to evolve into Rito for Wind Waker, I don’t see why this doesn’t work.
I could see this Dark Age timeline converging with the original 3 timelines where they converge, as all 3 of them also end with the incarnations of Demise being defeated for good.
This is a great chance to have more zelda games take place OUTSIDE Hyrule. If the curse is gone (or never existed) it would make sense for Link to travel to other lands and deal with evils there.
I would propose that the fourth timeline starts with the Interlopers NOT being banished to the Twilight Realm. With the Interlopers dominating Hyrule and becoming the Zonai. There would still have to be a later point in time where the timelines merge in order to explain the coexistence of Zora and RIto in BotW/TotK. But four timelines would make sense, when you consider that would open the door for a new Four Swords game as the timeline merger event.
It’s a really cool idea, but cant really explain the multiple references made to previous games in Zelda’s blessing ritual
The hero doesn’t have to lose in skyward sword to split the timeline. It’s already split when you travel back in time, and seal Demise in the master sword..:that means he can’t be sealed in the sealed grounds in that timeline, but it killed by the triforce in the one link returns to. There are two timelines created in skyward sword: the triforce timeline, and the sword timeline where the triforce remains in skillet due to demise being killed by the master sword instead. I believe TOTK takes place in the sword timeline, since there’s no mention of the triforce at all.
Also, who’s to say that the Zonai don’t exist in the other timelines?
Twilight princess mentions a race that were closer to the creator gods than the hylians were. Those could be Zonai as they too were in the sky. Who’s to say that Hylia herself isn’t a Zonai?
I haven't finished, I'm at 9:41. But you're right.
Dude you're right! Something that has ALWAYS confused me about breath of the wild is the inexplicable resurgence of Hylia iconography.
There aren't statues to her anywhere in the previous games that I know of, but in this timeline split she's everywhere.
Theres a timeline split at the end of Skyward Sword. And that makes so much sense! There was time travel, just like Ocarina!
This theory is actually been discussed a lot before. I even made a post on reddit with my theory regarding this new ''parallel'' timeline. The split however takes places after Demise is defeated in the past instead of Link dying.
But yes this is the only timeline placement that makes sense and has the least amount of issues/contradictions.
One thing I like is how the Zonai and Minish are very much alike. Both came from the heavens and both passed down their Light Force unto Zelda.
Thanks for watching 👍 As far as I'm aware, not from this angle it hasn't (not that I have seen anyway) - I do think this is a new take. Here I also look at the Zonai origin, why Link / Zelda failed the first time / how this was rectified / Ganondorf's understanding of past events / the other dragons / founding of Hyrule and how it all links together (including with Fi / Skyward Sword). Yes people have spoken about timeline splits but I don't think they have from this perspective. Agreed on Zonai and Minish - love their importance to the storyline. I also think this version of events gives a situation similar to when Link doesn't appear in Wind Waker's past (i.e. the Adult Timeline) and there being nothing to stop the evil invading Hyrule (hence it being buried beneath the waves). All really interesting to theorise on.
@@zelda.kingdom The biggest piece of evidence for me was the existence of the Goddess Sword (White Sword of the Sky). It's the only amiibo item that is given a big quest connected to the lore. This makes it canon to me. The only possible timeline for the Master Sword and Goddess Sword to co-exist is a timeline following SS's past. Here the Master Sword was with while the original sword still resides on Skyloft.
@@M_Dutch97 Neither Aonuma or Fujibayashi (who directed The Minish Cap, Skyward Sword, Breath of the Wild and Tears of the Kingdom) have ever suggested a timesplit happened after Ghirahim took a trip back in time and resurrected Demise after his death as the Imprisoned One in the present Era. As far as the story of Skyward Sword is concerned the entire quest Link makes was part of a _preordained_ time *loop* which had already happened in a previous loop as proven when Link meets the old Impa who is already carrying Zelda's _bracelet_ which she gives her at the end of Skyward Sword. Since the time loop had already preordained Zelda giving her bracelet to Impa in the long past that 100% confirms the events of the game all take place within the exact same timeline as a self contained closed loop very much like in Tears of the Kingdom.
When Demise dies in the past his death does not affect the events which take place in the present before Ghirahim took Zelda to the past as these events had already happened before said change to the timeline making the sudden change within the same timeline redundant courtesy of the _preordained_ events within the aforementioned time loop.
The Goddess Sword appearing in Tears of the Kingdom shouldn't be seen as evidence of anything as the appeareance of other such Lore-inconsistent items like Majora's Mask, Zant's hat and the Fused Shadow which were all last seen either been destroyed or taken away to lands unknown proove they cannot be the exact same items from said games. The Goddess Sword is most likely either an easter egg deliberately added by Aonuma and Fujibayashi after their confirmation that Tears of the Kingdom would not have any DLC like Breath of the Wild (hence no amiibo Goddess Sword) or an act of divine intervention by the likes of the Golden Goddesses and even Hylia who gift the Hero of the Wild with the ability to use the many weapons and items related to the many past Heroes across the timeline.
I’ve seen variations of this theory often myself. And I agree that the best place for it to exist would be where you stated. Demise winning the battle doesn’t seem necessary. Actually, I would argue Demise winning would negate the entire theory because that would insinuate the ending of the bloodline of Hylia as well, which we know to not be the case, via the existence of Sonia (and by proxy, Wilds era Zelda.
My other related theory is that the Minish Cap and Four Swords games would be part of a similar timeline split, where the Picori Blade is actually an unforged Goddess Sword that would have still been present in Skyloft.
Ive had this theory for ages. The past zelda of skyward sword was never shown waking up after demise was defeated. So after link and zelda went back to the future the zelda in the past might have woke up found a way to bring the hylians down to the surface and over a long period of time her bloodline giving birth to Sonia and the zonai meeting them and hyrule finally gets founded at around the same time the events of oot would have happened making the ganondorf the same one. Also the past of skyward was where demise cursed the bloodline so the ganondorf taking a demise look makes more sense.
This timeline truly makes sense! Perhaps this is just a better version of the Zelda timeline replacing all the old Zelda games that came from the fallen hero that doesn’t make sense since it never happens if you’re good at Zelda. I can’t wait to see how this new timeline that started with skyward sword unfolds. It may take a long time depending on how many Zelda games Nintendo is willing to make.
It's a good theory. I agree with a lot of it and it's exciting to think that in that timeline, Demise is completely vanquished. It's comforting to think Zelda and Link can be free from the cycle.
However I also like to think the references to past games talk about a long past with curse and connect the games of the flood timeline.
But it's a nicely constructed theory indeed.
Just in time for TotK's 1 year anniversary. Also this theory was amazing and actually worth considering unlike some of the nonsense people put on Reddit that gets them back where they started.
Edit: the part about the Blood Moon resurrecting the monsters... It just adds up.
Thanks so much, really glad you enjoyed it! And yeah, it's hard to believe it has been a year already! Just hope it can gain some momentum with the amount of effort I've put in to this one - looks like I may have lost the battle with the algorithm... Agreed on the Blood Moon - it's never been a concept in the other timelines and is a sign that Demise's evil was never really destroyed, it has continued to pervade Hyrule for millennia.
@@zelda.kingdom :)
The use of the term “imprisoning war” should be immediately familiar to longtime Zelda fans. That must be intentional, even though they are different events. This is perhaps the games first hint that things are running parallel to the other timelines.
(atencion: se usan conceptos de la versión de la traducción en español y quizás algunas palabras pueden cambiar en ingles, esta es mi teoría y a la conclusión que he llegado tras encajar todas las piezas de este aprendizaje)
SkywardSword se divide en 2 ramas
La rama temporal de la trifuerza (minish cap)
Y la rama temporal de los Zonan, (donde Rauru hyliano no llega a nacer nunca y hubo una posible destruccion de Hyrule cercana a SkywardSword):
1-ANTIGUA CALAMIDAD (heroe zonan sin sangre de dioses o de la realeza vs "malicia" de nombre desconocido, sin guardianes o bestias... y guerra de los caidos del subsuelo donde los zonan casi desaparecen, tras esta batalla el héroe zonan deposita una espada sagrada en una piedra y la envía al futuro para que tenga más fuerza cuando deba volver a ser usada, los habitantes de esas tierras empiezan a llamar al conjunto de los diferentes pueblos: Hyrule... los antepasados de Ruto, la sabia de la lagrima del Agua, algunos no llegan a evolucionar a Orni, creando la civilizacion Zora... y los kokiri llegaron a evolucionar en los kologs)
2-ÉPOCA DEL OLVIDO -> nace Ganon-Dorf [¿Poderoso-Hombre en gerudo?] capaz de canalizar la magia y es sellado en la guerra del destierro despues de que una princesa junto a una espada dañada apareciera... el dragon blanco se esconde, se cierra el subsuelo, la historia de los fundadores y los zonan es borrada popularmente a los hylianos, llevada a escondidas en secreto por los sabios y el hermano menor de la princesa Sonnia en contra de los saboteadores Yiga que tenian algunos conocimientos zonan, por eso los portadores de las piedras, decidieron elevar las ruinas zonan mas alto de lo normal... (Una princesa Zora escribe una carta de amor a un hyliano "Voe" de gran corazon y este es el encargado en ayudar a las 7 gerudo en contra de una amenaza, evitando su extinción... aún así está desconocida historia cae oculta enterrada y las políticas anti shiok permanecieron por siempre en su cultura)
3-NUEVA CALAMIDAD (durante los próximos 10000 años de una supuesta paz, los sheikah continuamente fabricaron tecnología avanzada y aparece mágicamente la espada maestra en el bosque kolog, llegando a haber 2 en el mismo tiempo... Los sheikah descubren que el nombre de esa antigua Malicia del cataclismo es llamado Ganon, añadiendolo a el mural de la leyenda premonitoria, junto al mal dibujado heroe Zonan y confiando ciegamente en los guardianes manipulables... "Finalmente según Aonuma llega la época más lejana de la saga" ...Nace un chico llamado Link y luego de 17 años la princesa Zelda cita un ritual de profecias sobre posibles pasados paralelos que nunca ocurrieron refiriendose al tiempo, crepusculo y oceano... despues sucederia un desastre que dormiria a link en un letargo de unos 100 años)
4-GANON BOTW (ganon es rápidamente derrotado junto el potencial de las 4 bestias y la espada maestra... las lunas carmesi desaparecen y los yiga se esconden excavando bajo tierra... tras la detencion inesperada de Vah Ruta, en los siguientes 5 años, los sheikah modernos decidieron destruir el conocimiento de los santuarios, destruir los guardianes y reemplazar las torres, en prevencion de que pudieran volverse de nuevo en su contra)
5-GANONDORF DESPIERTA -> las armas de la superficie se deterioran, el dragon blanco es liberado desde abajo o desde arriba y salen unos dibujos en el suelo... se abre el subsuelo junto con algunas ruinas y las islas celestes caen a una altura normal y se generaran unas rocas extrañas en el suelo "los santuarios zonan" que abriran un portal al pasado a la era de la fundacion de hyrule, incluyendo santuarios de segunda planta, los cuales no tienen raices... falsas Zelda aparecen, siendo las mujeres yiga que conocieron a la Zelda vestida de hyliana y los heraldos elementales de ganondorf que conocio a la Zelda vestida de zonan... 5 minutos después se produciría la primera luna carmesí en años)
6-UNA NUEVA LUNA CARMESI
(el golem corrupto del abismo del castillo, creado por ganondorf genera los antiguos golems guerreros, capaces de aparecer en estructuras celestes, estructuras sagradas y también capaces de destruir todo organismo, incluido el maligno... el griok real de aura maligna, extiende su poder mas alla, del ahora si, subsuelo abierto y es capaz de generar dragones reales y dragones de diferentes elementos que viajaran a la superficie y al cielo... algunos mounstros excavan cuevas en la superficie liberando los likelike y horroblin, rompiendo la calma de satoly... el templo del trueno emerge de la tierra gruesa invisible y de la arena fina visible, genera un poder a su alrededor permitiendo que los gibdo dejen de estar fosilizados y salgan desde abajo de la arena de los alrededores en caso de no haber colmenas...
Días después Link despierta en unas islas en el cielo y de las 2 espadas existentes, el heroe manda una espada dañada hacia el pasado, volviendo a haber solo 1 espada destructora del mal)
The timeline can turn into a ring with Skyward sword at the center
Context is key with that interview, as well~
«--I know this is a regular question, but where does Tears of the Kingdom fit into the Zelda timeline? Skyward Sword is depicted as the origin, and Breath of the Wild is depicted at the very end. But Tears of the Kingdom is both a sequel to Breath of the Wild and reveals the story of the establishment of Hyrule Kingdom, so I wonder if perhaps this is now the origin…?
Fujibayashi: Without a doubt, the events of this story are set after Breath of the Wild. And fundamentally, we intend The Legend of Zelda series' story and world to not break apart. So I can only say two things at this point.
Keeping in mind that premise of not breaking apart, I believe that there is room for fans to think, “So, then, is this a possibility?” If I were to speak only upon the potential, it is possible that although this tells a story of the founding of Hyrule, it could have history that's previously been destroyed too. We didn't produce this in some random way, thinking “would it be interesting to do it this way?”, and this includes things that go unmentioned. So I hope you will enjoy imagining it!»
Perhaps in similar fashion to the Goddess Hylia, the three Golden Goddesses gave up their immortality to become reborn as humans or Zonai, but quickly saw that giving up their immortality was a mistake. They needed to become immortal again, so they swallowed their stones and became the three immortal dragons. And the ritual is forbidden because it grants godlike powers in the Zonai’s eyes.
While I do not subscribe to this theory I just came up with, it is interesting to ponder on. Perhaps the Zonai are a race created by the goddesses to watch in their stead, like the angels of the goddesses, but they fell from grace for whatever reason (I theorize an unseen Great Dragon War, hence the dragon bones everywhere all over Hyrule, how the Zonai dwindled in number so rapidly, and why they were considered an “ancient war-like tribe”) But it could be interesting to learn that 3 sages who were the goddesses reborn swallowed the stones to regain immortality
It's an interesting thought, but there's not really any evidence that suggests they're in another completely different timeline than the three already established. Until last year, I was a firm believer in the Child Timeline. However, after playing TotK, I admit I'm more convinced that BotW and TotK take place at the end of the Downfall Timeline.
Honestly this kind of theory is the only one I see working for botw and totk. However, personally I initially thought the timeline split could take place in the time-travel from Skyward Sword and not in a hypothetical situation where Link dies against Demise.
In the timeline where Link and Zelda end up at the end of Skyward Sword, Demise is killed/sealed by Link's wish to the triforce.
The final battle actually takes place in the past, a hundred years before Link and Zelda are born, in a timeline they will never go back to, as they go back to the present after the battle. I've always wondered what goes on in that timeline, as consequently Link and Zelda are never forced to descend from the skies as Demise is already dead by the time they are born.
The gods who created hyrule in the past games are all zonai dragons now so that makes it a reboot.
But then you have the master sword and ganondorf which means it can't be one
When the master works book releases, and if this turns out be be true. Then one has to ask as to why Eiji Aonuma has allowed the popular consensus that he at best doesn't care or at worst is utterly incompetent, to continually persist?
I do believe in the possibility that BotW and TotK take place in a 4th timeline split, but I don’t think it’s necessary for Link to be defeated. Just like in the Adult timeline, he just wasn’t there because he went back to his own timeline and created a vacuum after defeating Demise in the distant past of Skyward Sword
Evolution takes millions of years not hundred of thousands.
This theory is sound, but only if we accept a certain premise: Infinite multiverse theory. It's for this reason that I actually reject the "Downfall" timeline, official status be damned.
That's not to say that there aren't elements of it that DO work. I do believe, as you do, that Dinral, Farosh, and Naydra were originally sentients who swallowed Secret Stones. I also think that there was a timeline split originating in Skyward Sword... but I don't think it's another "Downfall" timeline. I think the split was caused by Ghirahim. Remember how he captured Zelda and took her through the Gate of Time after Link sed the Triforce to completely eradicate the Imprisoned? He then conducted a magic ritual to sacrifice Zelda for Demise's resurrection. Demise was revived, but subsequently slain by the Hero of the Sky. The death of Demise would have created a paradox here! So the timeline splits in order to accommodate the paradox.
The actual rules of time travel and timeline splits in the Zelda universe are, in my opinion at least, still up for debate because if my theory holds true then the planting of the Life Tree in the Temple of Time should ALSO have caused a timeline split. However, not only does it not, but everyone who saw the empty plot in the temple (Link, Groose, the Old One, and Fi) all retain memories of the plot being empty before the Life Tree suddenly appeared. This form of timeline modification is an absolute mystery to me, though I've seen it in other forms of media (such as the movie _The Lake House_). I simply don't understand it (yet).
Sure, this is an appealing option
Lots of parts of this really make sense, but a big issue pops up with all of the references to the past games and the characters being aware of them. Sidon talking about her involvement in Ocarina of Time for example is very damming to this theory. As it stands, I simply think BotW and TotK are arbitrarily tens or hundreds of thousands of years after the reconjoining of the split timeline.
The owl in the legend of Zelda ocarina of Time is a reto.
That begs the question: If Hyrule was destroyed before Rauru found it. WHY was it destroyed or more importantly, WHO destroyed it.
The only problem I have with this theory is that then you’d have to have the multiverse theory; I think a better way to think of it would be the other timeline split in skyward sword more akin to oot.
This is certainly an interesting idea, but it feels like adding an entirely new timeline split is a bit excessive. It also doesn't explain why breath of the wild references previous games and tears has armor and references to previous games.
Thanks for watching and taking the time to comment 😃. I know that I could be completely wrong but I think the armour and references can easily be explained - in that similar events, to those seen in previous games, took place (but not exactly the same). The various armour sets are already from games that form part of different timeline branches, so the similar event idea is essentially already a concept they’ve incorporated (even if it was done indirectly by the developers). All really interesting to think about though.
Its confirmed botw is 10k years after OoT, its more likely this is the 2nd founding of Hyrule, with the dragon being oroboros, a repeating cycle with slight differences, they could have lived in the skies during OoT or some period after the original TL which we could classify as the classic TL, and its a move from the decades old games that now become "Legend". We are now in the most current TL of the Legend, the Zonai could have cone to existence afterwords, because alsp remember the sheikah should be extinct, sp the sheikah of the past could be linked to the zonai cross breeding amd then when they came back down crossbreding again and the sheikah resurgence happening, also makes sense why they are so tied to the royal family and they tattoo the zonai eye reaching all the way back to OoT
I think TOTK is a way to try to get us to quit worrying about the timeline lol. We have hints and nods to other games but this one feels disconnected from everything but skyward sword and BOTW.
BOTW/TOTK was Nintendo retconning the lore for that specific era.
another though on the video. the hole reason breath of the wilds story took place is because of a fortune teller's advice. who is to say that fortune teller is not twin rova returned to resurect there sealed away sergut child. gives birth to the calamity and then the unsealing of the deamon king. thus bringing every timeline to one where they all happened.
2:01 I have a very big issue with this statement from Nintendo. Placing the games so far in the future that the other games are inconsequential to its story, basically means botw and totk are some sort of reboots while denying they actually are
What I don’t understand: when you play skyward sword as link and go down to Earth u already find ruins of civilisations even with zonai symbols. And they existed before skyloft was created. So where did they come from then
I still don't see any issue with just placing it before OOT. It's what the game says more or less. Stuff like the pointed ears or two Ganondorfs existing are issues but only at first glance, and they're no more of an issue than retrofitting Hylia and Demise into the lore like Skyward Sword did. We just gotta work around them.
@@vgsnarley8528 uhhh...Ok. I wasn't saying BOTW was before OOT, that's obviously not the case, I was saying the TotK memories take place before OOT.
They also state that Link’s name is “Link Link” and that the sun had a face in Majora’s Mask in that video 😂 - I don’t think you can take this interview seriously… In any case, it could still take place after OOT in a different timeline because, as I mention later in the video, I believe there could be a convergence point. The timelines still run concurrently, so events can happen before / after in different timeline splits. All just a theory anyway - maybe the new Master Works book for TOTK will shed some light on it? - really looking forward to that 👍
Interesting theory, but I honestly don’t think it needs to be this complicated. If we’re going to hypothesize a timeline split during skyward sword, why not assume it happens the way most theorists believe it happens, I.e. when link goes back in time to defeat demise? One timeline demise is defeated in the game’s present, in another he’s defeated a thousand years earlier. Hence, the events of TOTK’s past can simply be the same event as OOT, just in a different timeline, hence the difference in details.
I think it makes most sense to put the arrival of the Zonai prior to the events of SS, as in that game there is already an ancient past full of ancient technology. The series has given us no fewer than 4 ancient races that predate Hyrule, three of which come from the sky and are said to have helped found Hyrule - the latter three being the Zonai, the picori, and the oocca, and the outlier being the laneyru robots. Unless Hyrule was founded 3 different times by different sky races, I think it makes sense to say these races are somehow related, and responsible for the ancient tech, including the laneyru robots. Some have suggested that the Zonai and the picori are one in the same, and that the Zonai didn’t disappear from the world, they just made themselves small. Or, maybe they were always small, and some of them just made themselves big for easier interaction with the races of the surface. The oocca could be from the same world as the Zonai/picori, a companion species.
My personal fan timeline goes roughly like this:
1. Hylia calls upon the Zonai to help guide the proto-hylians into a state of advanced civilization.
2. Demise emerges and destroys that civilization, destroying most of the Zonai and sending the rest of them into hiding as the picori where they continued to quietly guide the hylians.
3. The events of skyward sword causes a timeline split.
4. One of those splits leads to the events of TOTK’s past.
It actually works out pretty neatly.
i don't know man, i think they are part of the fallen timeline. but i think it's after ocarina of time. if it happened before then no need for the zoni to exist, my thought is it probably takes place after link to the past, and that the depths are the precuser to the dark world or vice versa as it were. though i would say it hinges on in the next game if the zora become corrupted enemies or not.
I'm certain it's far after everything. Far enough for them to forget that there was already a previous Imprisoning War aka the one before ALttP.
Do an update after the timeline
Why would zelda link and Gannon be reincarnated if demise never put the curse on them
I really don't like the fallen timeline being a thing, so I definitely don't like it happening again... but skyward sword has time travel so you could use that time line instead
This is all just autism fueled speculation, but Demise's curse suggests he has some control over souls, seeing as how he could bind Link and Zelda to his cycle. Ganondorf's abilities in TotK include creating living evil beings by what appears to be demonic soul manipulation. Could somewhat explain the connection to the poes and bargainer statues in the depths, and how Zelda is able to be returned to human form after the Demon dragon's defeat. After being utterly destroyed, Ganondorf/Demise's grip over the spirit realm would weaken, allowing Rauru and Sonia's spirits to reverse draconification and return Zelda to her human body.
There is also the fact that after Ganondorf's draconification, he specifically tries to *consume* the light dragon/zelda rather than simply attack her. Just like Demise tried to do in Skyward Sword.
I wonder if his draconification was more of a calculated act than one of desperation, considering the triforce symbols on the backs of the dragons. Maybe 3 the ancient Zonai sages each had the pieces of the Triforce, and used draconification to keep them out of reach of evil. This is what would make it a forbidden act, the fact that it could make the triforce attainable by evil.
There's also where the light dragon flies up to as we pull the Master Sword out of her. A place so high up it's bathed in golden light? That could be the Sacred Realm
This makes….a great deal of sense. I love it.
Its really interesting but another hero falls timeline makes my eyes roll as hard as the first time nintendo farted out a ‘hero falls’ timeline just feel like its lazy
Ss already kinda has two timelines the one where they seal the imprisoned and the one where they defeat demise wonder if this idea fits in one of those timelines i just hate the idea of hero falls but i loved so much of what you have here its a lot of fun
No disrespect to the video, but I think any theory that includes “alternate timeline” is essentially giving up. It’s saying the timeline isn’t coherent.
Personally, I don’t think that’s true. I think, if anything, the Wild saga shows the history of Hyrule is on a much longer timeline than we’ve given it credit for. For all we know, 10,000 years pass between EVERY separate era, which is plenty of time for everything we know to change. We also know there are *at least* two Hyrules, so we don’t know just how many more there are.
Basically, if we’re talking as much as 100,000 years, that’s long enough to explain *anything* without involving multiple timelines.
Gonna have to disagree with you here.
*Ruto, Saria, Darunia Nabooru* & *Medli* are referenced in BOTW to have existed in the ancient past. The Divine beast are named after them, and Ruto was said to be a *Sage* that fought alongside the *Hero* against Ganon if you read the *Zora Tablets* in BOTW.
I believe the events happens sometime after Rauru founded Hyrule.
Considering Koume and Kotake around 400 years old in Ocarina of Time. I believe the events of OOT happens after Rauru sealed Ganondorf in the Depths.
Basically like this!
TotK Backstory *=>* Sonia & Rauru's descendant is named Rauru and builds the Temple of Time we see on the Great Plateau *=>* 360 years later, the Hyrulian Civil War *=>* Calamity Ganon is unleashed and reincarnated as Ganondorf from Ocarina of Time via Surrogacy from the malice coming out of ToTK into Koume and Kotake's bodies *=>* The Hero of Time and the 7 Sages defeat Ganondorf *=>* Ganondorf is sealed away and either timeline leads into the next Calamity Ganon reincarnation which then leads onto BOTW.
It's very easy to place ToTK Backstory because we know there are *2 Rauru's* and *2 Temple of Times* on the Great Plateau.
The *Zonai Rauru* created the Temple of Time that we see in the Sky Kingdom/Realm of the Heavens.
*Hylian Rauru* built the Temple of Time on top of the ruins from *Zonai Rauru's* Temple of Time.
ToTK - TMC - FS - Calamity is born - OOT - (Triple Split) - merger - Calamity is reborned - 10,000 years later - Calamity is incompletely resurrected/BOTW - TOTK - Source of Calamity and Demise's curse has been eradicated.
Tears of the Kingdom reveals the source of all Ganondorf's existing, and is the reason for why Gerudo males are born every 100 years. Perhaps every 100 years, Calamity has been incarnating as a Gerudo Male until his full presence is shown in OOT (when Calamity full takes over).
I believe a Human Vessel is required for Calamity to manifest, and that Human Vessel needs ToTK Ganondorf's malice in order to create, the next Ganondorf i.e. Calamity.
Notice in OOT, the *pink dark portal* underneath Ganondorf's Castle? That's *GLOOM!*
Ganondorf of OOT was already planning on breaking the seal of ToTK Ganondorf with Gloom *underneath* the castle of OOT.
Headcanon
Pretty much exactly what I think and I’m surprised I’ve never seen anyone else think so until now. Based lol
I agree with you on this one and it would make a lot more sense as well.
Mmm, pretty good theory, albeit seeming a bit shoehorned into the timeline narrative. But all Nintendo has to do is say “Yup, that’s right” and it becomes canon. I would really like to see a “final” Zelda game where Ganondorf becomes tired of being the vessel of Demise’s hatred and decides to end Demise himself. Kind of a parallel to Darth Vader destroying the Emperor in Return of the Jedi.
There were so many possible threads in TOTK that could've tied it to other games. Demise was sealed inside the Master Sword, so the blade breaking could've tied into that somehow. When the game was first revealed, I swore up and down that Ganondorf was going to be the same one from Twilight Princess, due to the massive wound on his chest. But alas, here we are.
This would explain why Ganondorf in his demon king form looks so similar to Demise.
This is a very compelling theory. I am all for adopting it as canon and even scarificing the weapons and armors that call back to older games as either replicas or something that gives a satisfying reason for their existence that ties in with this theory.
The one point that I'm unable to bridge is your mentioning of the three Zonai dragons helping to seal Demise. While that in of itself is a great hypothesis, how would the three dragons already present in Skyward Sword fit in? They already bear the names of the goddesses/regions of Hyrule, and along with Levias, were also tasked to aid the hero in his mission. Or would they also be in a different branch of the split timeline?
I know this isn't meant to be airtight without any flaws, but despite my question above, I'm very much on board with accepting your theory.
Yes PLEASE explain the absolute f$&# up TotK did to the lore
The pretty great video it would explain why the triforce isnt around anymore maby the gods took it away after demise took over fearing it would bring further destruction pretty intersting mot gonne lie
My main issue with this is that the timeline is already a mess. Adding another split just makes future Zelda games harder to tie together.
I already believe that the original downfall timeline was a mistake. The only reason it exists is because of the idea that Ocarina of Time is the first Imprisoning War (Seal War), which is contradicted by the game itself. The original intention was for the game to depict the seal war, but in the end, it doesn't make any sense to be such. The Seal War never had a hero, which is why the 7 wise men had to seal Ganon in the spirit realm. To "fix" this, the creators of the Hyrule Historia timeline came up with the downfall timeline split.
The Adult & Child timelines were set up directly within the games themselves, and make perfect sense in context. Meanwhile, the downfall timeline was created years after the fact, contradicted the games, and was further contradicted by A Link Between Worlds' story.
No matter what they chose to do, there would always be contradictions. I imagine the Downfall Timeline was created due to thematic reasons. 3 Virtues, 3 Goddesses, 3 pieces of the Triforce, 3 timelines. But this comes with a more confusing story.
The Hyrule Historia timeline puts a lot of focus on quotes from interviews that don't necessarily line up with what's in the games. Minish Cap is at the beginning of the timeline because Aonuma said Four Swords was the oldest game in the timeline-- separating Four Swords Adventures from its predecessor, despite obviously being a direct sequel. And of course, there's the whole seal war situation, as I just mentioned.
Messy inconsistencies like this are why BOTW being so far in the future was such a relief. It allows them to take elements from the previous games and do whatever they want. They are forging a new story that can still reference the past, but exist independently. It'll allow them to connect other games much more simply in the future. So the idea of a brand new split would just make everything even more confusing. Especially if it was another downfall timeline, and ESPECIALLY if it eventually led to a timeline convergence. The refounding idea is so simple and easy to understand, so I'd much rather believe that over another convoluted split theory. While it's certainly fun to think about, and it's definitely thematically interesting, it's just not something I'd like to believe.
So…
It’s just another “what-if” scenario.
Ok, but what’s the difference between that and taking the backstory of Skyward Sword as mere reference and just make an entirely new continuity from there?
The way I see it, there really isn’t a point when there have been more than enough splits in the timeline that portrays retellings of past entries.
Skyward Sword, Ocarina of Time, Majora’s Mask, Twilight Princess in that order. All canonically connected. However, if you take the adult portion of Ocarina of Time and take it from there by perspective, the timeline splits off and portrays a future of Hyrule that it “canonically” doesn’t supposedly have, leading to Wind Waker. An expanded timeline from the Adult portion of OOT. I still fail to see how Minish Cap goes between SS and OOT despite well-constructed theories, but Minish Cap is also the start of the “downfall” timeline”. Lorulean Historian puts it better than I can interpret.
However, saying that Skyward Sword splits if the Hero of the Sky failed to vanquish Demise… that doesn’t make sense because debatably, SS is an entire time loop because that same Link IS the ancient hero mentioned in Skyloft’s legend. So how can he exist in the future if he didn’t defeat Demise in the past? Demise was vanquished in the past swearing his hatred will eventually assume the form of a Gerudo king, but his mindless body reincarnated as the Imprisoned which Link eradicates with his wish of the Triforce at the near end.
So why not just… reimagine the lore altogether? BOTW is softened the idea, TOTK solidified it.
There are various thing speaking TotK being set immediately after Skyward Sword already, this doesn't really change even if you consider that TotK would be an alternate timeline splitting off from Skyward Sword either. Primarily, that'd be things like the Sword of the Sages with which they tried to execute Ganondorf in TP being found in a Zonai-ruin from the time of the first Hyrule, but also references to all of the Zelda-games back in BotW during the ceremony in which Zelda made Link her knight.
But above all I feel the theory fails in regards to the Master Sword by assuming SS-Link failed because his sword wasn't blessed by Zelda, from what I recall the sword wasn't even in its current form before it was blessed, so the idea that Zelda transforming into the Light Dragon and pouring her power into the sword was a replacement for this blessing just can't be the case because the sword wouldn't be in this form if it wasn't already blessed at some point before this... which makes the idea of Ganondorf just being basically a complete reincarnation of Demise after having swallowed the Secret Stone also make no sense. Regardless of how powerful he is in comparisson to Demise, equal or not, he must've had a different power than Demise to so easily break a sword that by all means should've been able to defeat Demise.
Basically everything indicates that TotK is part of the same timeline-branch as all the other Zelda-games we had so far.
The Forest Temple from Ocarina of Time could be the original castle of Raru 🤔
Koume and Kotake are ~400 years old in OoT and a Gerudo male is born every 100.
In Tears of the kingdom they are alot younger in the past and dont exist into links future (so they arent immortal)
They also tried to ressurect Ganon in oracle of seasons and oracle of time in a botched effort
The Ganon in Ocarina of Time could be a duplicated younger version of Tears of the Kingdom Ganon.
I would place Ocarina of Time within 400 years after the founding of Hyrule in Tears of the Kingdom.
Other theories:
- The statues of the 5th race in the depths look like the Mogma, leading me to speculate that they and the ancient Gorons were droven out by Ganons minions in the past. Mogma have history with Bokoblins
- I also suspect that the Dragons are Zonai versions of the Oracles of Ages and Seasons Din, Nayru and Farore, they could of also been created to stop the Interlopers.
- The Bargainer statues seem to be related to the giants from Majoras mask, and the interlopers / hexed tribe with The remnants being the Gero and Twili
- This would put Termina on the otherside of the Gerudo Desert connected by the Kingdom of Ikanna
I would suppose when link fell at the start of Majoras Mask he went to the depths
- Its also implied the Triforce is forgotten to time, but exists in Zelda and that is what her sealing power is
The last Gerudo leader was the one that was connected to the Calamity. This kinda already puts OoT Ganondorf before TotK's in terms of history.
OoT Ganondorf and his Gerudo are considered to be ancient Gerudo that had round ears and orangish red eyes. Something TotK Ganondorf was the only one to retain from his ancestors while the rest of the Gerudo in his army are hybrids. Not even Koume and Kotake who had round ears in OoT had the ancient Gerudo features.
Tears of the Kingdom is the worst Zelda game of all time and most overrated game of all time, debate me.