Inside a Chinese fridge sanitising module (with schematic)
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- Опубліковано 15 гру 2020
- While browsing for unusual modules on eBay I came across an odd little unit intended for keeping the interiors of fridges or other small spaces sterile.
Before anyone starts indignantly announcing that the correct way to keep your fridge sterile is to clean it regularly, I should mention that the main point of this device is to stop transfer of odours from stinky cheeses and other aromatic foods, and also to prolong the life of exposed food by limiting the growth of bacteria or mould.
The unit claims to put out positive and negative ions, and it does have a carbon fibre emitter for each that does indeed have a matching charge. However, the main characteristic of this unit is the slight hint of ozone. Ozone gas (an unstable 3-atom oxygen molecule) is increasingly being used at low levels in catering environments to reduce the risk of food poisoning and prolong product shelf life.
The power consumption of this module on 240V is very surprising. Just a fraction of a watt at 0.01W (ten milliwatts).
Before de-potting this unit I had a guess at what might be inside. I expected the common circuit based on discharging a capacitor in pulses through a small high voltage transformer, but I was completely wrong. It's a very neat little circuit, but quite perplexing as the component count is much lower than expected.for the style of circuitry.
Here's a search link for the 220-240V version of this module:-
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...
Here's a search link for the 110-120V version of this module:-
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...
Here's a search link for the 12V version of this module:-
www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...
Note that I do NOT recommend using 12V DC ioniser modules on ungrounded plug-in power supplies, as they can create a high enough voltage differential to ground to cause arcing/tracking between the low and high voltage sides of the power supply.
If you enjoy these videos you can help support the channel with a dollar for coffee, cookies and random gadgets for disassembly at:-
www.bigclive.com/coffee.htm
This also keeps the channel independent of UA-cam's advertising algorithms allowing it to be a bit more dangerous and naughty. - Наука та технологія
1:20 Yes, yes I heard a buzzing sound when you held it up to the microph.......oh wait, that is just my tinnitus. 🤦♂️
Big Clive has made us all wiser
About this small ionizer
No hour's too late
For knowledge can't wait
Methinks he's no early riser
I love limericks
Your a Poet
and you don't know it!
I saw this video on the side feed and for a second thought it said "Chinese Frog Sizzling Module". That moment when you realize you watch too much BigClive...
That would make an interesting, but controversial video.
@@bigclivedotcom Presto Hot Frogger...
@@bills6093 Yum! lol
@@bigclivedotcom let's please come on those controversies, please!
I'd watch that video. Froggy Flambeaux.
"It's low current, reference to mains...maybe I should check that"
Nothing like a little ozone to rapidly decompose the plastic interior of your fridge :)
Lololol, I was looking for this comment, glad it's already here.
Soon they will build it in on the factory to 'make it last longer' ;-)
I would take it's suply from the thermostat, so it was not running all the time. :)
@@brianpierce6136 It would still build up. Not as quickly, but it's an enclosed space.
Not smart!
@@elvinhaak My fridge has one from factory.
Still amazes me how such small components can carry such high voltages.
The capacitors only have to withstand the supply voltage each, but they are still very amazing.
Neat! Didn't know this was still a thing. I have a vintage Admiral fridge (late 50s / early 60s) and it has one of those low voltage UVC light bulbs in it, meant to turn on occasionally and make ozone. The owner's manual says it's for sanitizing the air and also to prevent the transfer of food flavors and odors. Which, if you think about it, made perfect sense in a world without tupperware or ziplock bags. They claim you can put an uncovered plate of fish in the fridge and it won't make your butter taste fishy. Not sure how much it's needed nowadays, though.
The ebay product descriptions always crack me up.
I'm slowly falling in this tendency of ordering two items from China (or where ever) when you can order one, and taking one to bits myself (when I can) - simply because it can be so interesting and sometimes even educating.
Clive, you're a pure evil, our dearest hero.
It's also a good way to check quality.
Department of De-potment.
A UA-camrs sleep routine = non existent. This was uploaded at 1AM.
@@Okurka. Nope, I'm one too. You get an idea of a video you film, edit, upload. lol :D
I do often film in the middle of the night.
He has to look after Ralfy when he's been on the gin 😂
I'm watching this while the freezer compartment blower motor in my 20-year-old fridge is making all sorts of weird squeaky noises 🤣 LOL
It may be a worn bearing or just need a suitable lubricant. There may be a universal replacement.
I thought the fan motor was going in my freezer. With a new motor in hand I started to remove the access panel only to find the air passage was sealed with ice. Once I got the ice melted and the drain unstopped, the fan sounded fine again. It's been a few years and the new motor is still in the box.
Yes by all means build a bigger one please!
Electroboom already built a bigger One heheh
Was I the only one sitting here saying, "SHRED IT!!!" while he was tearing the plastic apart?
I am so glad that you have the courage to desolve binary polymers with household solvents, and then share the results.
That's a very straight forward multiplier, nicely made.
It would do the job.
My mom had one which had just the negative brush, it hissed when I put my finger near it.
I got hissed at by my mom too for doing that.
Good fun.
Thanks for linking the 110V version!
I've ordered one to explore.
It can be no coincidence that this video started with an advert for Beard care products for me! 😁
Would be interested what would be in the 12v version. Very interesting what such a small simple circuit can do.
I didn't know depotting was even possible, would've been good to see actually.
I used a heat gun and careful cutting, followed by submerging in a container of acetone to soften the final stuff.
@@bigclivedotcom ah ok, cheers.
Smesh is my new favourite word.
I’m waiting for some devious person (ahem) to replace all the SOT-23 diodes with random semiconductors, the replace the current-limiting resistors with 0-ohm jumpers! Let’s see how much ozone we get, then! Oh, yeah, and smoke! 😆
That multiplier looks really similar to the ones we used to use for photomultiplier tubes in downhole nuclear detectors. Basically either a sine or push-pull drive into a transformer and then those SMT diodes and MLC caps. Getting the MLC's not to crack and short in service was quite a challenge. This was doubly-so in the electronic neutron generators that ran at up to 120kV. Those would literally vaporize a 10uF/5kV MLC cap and leave nothing but a metallic skid mark and dust afterwards when the cap shorted.
as an engineer sometimes i feel i am doing bad sins if i miss his videos from last 1 years i am watching his every video and it is much more informative then my teachers
When I think of sanitization, I think China.
and bats, lots of bats.
Spray your bats with ozone before consumption.
Such a pun
Well, I think Trump. And stupid followers, lots of stupid followers. Fortunately not enough.
Jinping will soon be releasing his autobiography, Winnie the Pooh and the 100 Acre Massacre.
Wow, I wasn't expecting this type of HV generator at all. As a person who has recently used your +Ion PSU livestream video as an instruction, I was quite surprised to see this PCB potted in resin where they usually put a HV transformer pulsed by a cheap and simple oscillator. Quite a lot of space left for the design this case was supposedly traditionally used for.
I've ordered a 110v and 12v one to explore.
Go on Clive! Move the mains input to the positive end to get a higher voltage!
Technically speaking it ends up the same differential voltage anyway.
@@bigclivedotcom True, but if you connect to the positive end, it would create a higher negative charge/ozone generation?.
I would like to see you build a 12 volt ioniser Clive. Would be an excellent video to watch.
I've noted that center feeding a long voltage multiplier like this delivers a higher voltage under load than if fed from one end with the same part count. but instead of ground and positive or ground and negative, you get positive and negative with respect to ground. choosing to have a greater potential below ground than a above ground may have something to do with dust collection prevention.
The positive and negative circuits means that the ripple characteristics and charging times are improved compared to a single long chain. With this arrangement there is effectively a 10 stage multiplier between the positive and negative electrodes. Additionally there will be a "breeze" between them.
I think the combination or positive and negative ions will tend to cancel each other out with the longer negative arm resulting in more negative ions being produced but not excessively so.
I wouldn't trust those tiny capacitors with unknown voltage rating.
They'll have to take at most 240v * sqrt(2), so fair enough for those sizes. The resistor is more sketchy.
@9:49 - Don't cross the streams! LOL!
My Plasma Rifle
Or after a Few Wobble Pops.
says people don't like the pausing, proceeds to pause for multiple days
It would be interesting to see what they are doing on the 12V version of this since it would have to be completely different.
Trump XP is the manufacturer? WTF? :D
That's pretty neat. I'll have to try one.
The voltage multiplier is a lot like the design I used in the high voltage leakage tester project I sent you last year.
"To Taste Fresh Fridge" LMAO
It's a bipolar ionizer. It indirectly produces hydroxyls, which are potent oxidizers but safer than ozone. The ozone output is quite low.
I haven't seen many of these types inside fridges but I'm guessing that might be changing.
I'm still using the triangular fridge ozone generator you took apart a while ago.
The battery lasts nearly 2 weeks & in times like these using "nature's steriliser" in my fridge is a simple, cheap method of keeping nasties at bay.
I've thought of ways to test it using petri dishes of agar & such but it's easier just to charge it once a fortnight & bung it in my fridge.
It makes me feel better anyway!
I'm using mine too. I recommend letting it warm up to room temperature before charging it to give the lithium cell an easier life.
@@bigclivedotcom Ooh! I didn't think of that. Thanks.
I'd love to see a comparative analysis of how the 240VAC compares to the 120VAC and 12VDC versions. I'd also love to see your built version of the circuit.
I've ordered the 110V one, and impressively, they got in touch to check it was the right voltage due to the UK being 240V.
@@bigclivedotcom Clive, do you have any 120vac sources? I imagine you have a Variac or standalone stepdown transformer but I don't recall seeing such a setup on your channel before. Worst case I wouldn't mind seeing a teardown and analysis even if you don't test it first.
The white difference between the module and the flex 🙈
Can we have a bigclive & ralfy xmas/new year video please?
So the next new model will be the "Biden Vista?".
Touches "harmless" negative electrode; totally loses his mind! LOL.
Negative electrode with a direct diode path to the mains and a single under voltage rated resistor.
Im curious how you attached the carbon fibers to new wires. Or were they total replacements?
New carbon fibre emitters folded round wire which was then bent closed on them, and heatshrink applied to hold them in place.
I *love* to Taste Fresh Fridge!!
Taste Fresh Fridge 220 Volts!
The refrigerant tastes like gravy.
Ozone produces hydroxyl radicals (*OH) with moisture in the air. I think that is the major route ozone disinfection works.
A single smd resistor is probably rated for something like 200V unpotted. I wonder how much it can take when potted? I'd not rely on a single 10M resistor in the output if designed a thing like that.
Your videos are fun interesting and so much to learn from your reverse engineering. Thank you.
Not sure if the thingy makes sense for consumer fridges though, considering the wiring (and a need for a timer and button of sorts?). It could probably be botched to fridge light assembly, but that’s kinda too hacky?
It's so low current it could be wired across the door switch. But I think it's aimed at commercial fridges.
Hi Clive, the Diodes are BAV99 , Cheers, Konstantin
Those are only rated about 70V.
assets.nexperia.com/documents/data-sheet/BAV99_SER.pdf, depends on the Manufacturer, these are fpr 100V, but still to low
It would be very informative if you would measure the voltage multiplier output, both in voltage and even to see the waveform on an oscilloscope.
Tricky, as the voltage is high and current is low.
@@bigclivedotcom voltage divider and then capacitive decoupling for the scope. you already touched the output so it appears only a hazard to improperly connected instruments. thank you.
@@bigclivedotcom Use 10x probe and connect to a cheap but pretty OK USB chinese oscilloscope like Hantek 6022BE
I would have loved to see the actual voltage output on the brushes!
BAV99 in SOT-23 is marked "A7", but is only 80V rated ..
Yeah. I'm not sure if it is a standard A7.
All i could hear was the peeing rain.
Yes. Get the 12v and 110v.
Already ordered.
At least they've potted it properly this time instead of filling the case with SAND!
Yes please build a ridiculously huge version..........for science 🤔😏
Talking about corona discharge from Chinese module isn't what it used to be :)
Live build incoming!
Please if you can, when you make a bigger test of this I'd like to know the micro current of each pos-ion and neg-ion separately and then when they both running at the same time.
My theory is that it could create an ion exchange path that could make it higher current and thus potential for making higher ozone for a much smaller circuit
I think the vicinity and super-fine carbon strands are a significant factor.
Is one of the pads on the A7 diode just a support pad? Or is it two in one? (he days before looking for a datasheet)
It contains two diodes in series - the third pad connects to where the two meet.
My ice always smells of onion or garlic. This might help?
I don't know, in any case it doesn't help against the smell of fish and fresh mushrooms in our bedroom.
would be awesome if they made these into refrigerator bulbs. it wouldn't be constant, but it would be in a confined space.
Hey Clive, when there's no buzzing noise from the emitters, been you make a buzzing noise for us?
Yes!
[Chris Tucker has entered the chat]
The caps are in series and they don't need to be rated for that high voltage. The potential between them is probly ~220 V. Like a batteries in series.
It's a voltage multiplier. They will see at least 350V each.
My head somehow sow 220V not a high voltage :) I meant like thousands of volts
Hi Clive. I had a project in mind and was curious could you build one with a reasonable amount of work and cost. An array of laser's say 5 in a fan spread that would pulse back and forth? Say #1 lights then #2 and so on to #5 then back again. To be used outside like in a Christmas display.
I was just thinking it would make a nice addition to a display shooting then skyward.
You can get disco lights that do that.
@@bigclivedotcom Thanks
Oh, and now that you took it apart and it's still working pretty fine, you can even pot it back in resin and reuse it. Or even extend it further to reach even higher voltage, if you only will.
Buy three and put them in series?
@@lwilton first you'll need to separate their multipliers: there is a negative voltage multiplier and a positive one. And neither you want to exceed these diodes and capacitors maximum rating, nor you're gonna be able to charge them with DC.
Thus, you *must* separate these wannabe half-bridges to stack them up and increase the voltage.
I did reassemble it and might pot it into a custom 3D printed case.
Can confirm that a 12vdc ionizer 12-15kv is perfectly capable of causing a switching power supply to arc from VDC+ to ground, and kill it.
IDK if putting a neon bulb from + to - would keep the voltage from getting too high on the VDC out wires?
It's a real thing. And there are a lot of similar products.
Interesting to think how they figured a user would wire this up inside their fridge. Drill holes through the inside lining for the wires or just trap the wires in the door until they wear through and something goes bang?!
try moving the 240V input towards 1 end on each circuit , to have +HV and -HV, then put the 240V wires in parallel to have double the voltage, to see if it works
thanks for the video,
cordially, a high voltage enthusiast
Are you using a Speyside or Islay solvent?
Maybe I should give them a try.
So that's why I get a burned PCB smell/tase on some Islays. Clive goes to the distilleries and dips stuff to depott into their casks. 😂🤣
Is there any reason why I couldn't buy a cheap pir motion sensing solar light and swap out the LEds for IR LEDs to aid my security camera night vision? Or would that mess with the pir?
You could do that, but you can buy 12V infrared illuminators for CCTV that turn on at dusk.
@@bigclivedotcom thanks for answering!! All of my cameras are remote (battery and wifi) so need the IR lights to be solar as well. If the IR messes with the pir, I guess doppler is a good alternative
Since A7 = BAV99, as @nuts_n_proud said, rated at 70 or 75V I tested a Nexperia one to see what the actual typical breakdown is (SPICE model says.. 100V). Surprisingly, perhaps, it was more than the ~330V I have available from doubling mains voltage here. The caps will have lower capacitance at the working voltage than at low voltage, of course. Cockroft-Walton multiplier configuration- the diodes and caps each just see the stage voltage so I guess the output could get "pretty high" with no load. I have a 40kV 1G probe but no patience to build one of these by hand at the moment.
The probe would be too low impedance for a low current ioniser.
@@bigclivedotcom When a gigohm is not enough..
@@bigclivedotcom Your schematic is very easy to follow, so just for shts and giggles, I simulated the whole thing in LTspice using 33nF caps and RRE02VS4S 400V 0.2A diodes with 50Hz 233V RMS input. About 4kV with no load and 3.6kV with 1G load, so divider output Z about 80M + the 20M resistors. Takes a few seconds to charge. i.imgur.com/inlUTpy.png Ideal would be 6.6kV. Very interesting, thanks for tearing down the potted module!
I use my old Lionel trains as my home ozone generator.
Ah, I remember those smells very well.
I put a camebert in my fridge, I had to eat it, even it its box it was too ripe in oder. I also suffer from mould on my bread and margerine if left for too long
If there is enouch ozone in the fridge to oxidize microbes, wouldn't it also oxidize food and make it deteriorate faster? (Same for air: if there's enough to kill microbes it probably also kills your lungs)
I thought he would find a greyhound
The A7 package looks like a standard SMD transistor and cant a transistor be used as a double diode?
They can, but with very limited voltage ratings.
A7 will be a short reference code to identify the specific component, as there isn't enough space to print the full part number eg: 2N3904. The package looks like SOT-23, which are often used for transistors and diodes, but can also be used for 3-pin ICs like a TL431 for example.
"soak in suitable solvent" a few seconds later I pour myself a shot of JW Black Label.
thee shot of
Rich & Rare Canadian Whisky myslef
I only use the JW Red as a solvent. 😀🇦🇺👍
@@dano4700 Red, Green & once in a Blue moon ;-) RGB
@@johncox3903 Yes indeed. The great white north.
I once had an affair with Crown Royal, but a gentleman never tells. Oh wait! lol
SMESH..! Lovely 'Oonerspism' there. PLEASE tell me you'lll be Sodastreaming something for Xmas..???
Sodastreamed spiked eggnog perhaps?
So my Samsung fridge has a keep fresh box beneath the vegetable box. I wonder now if that uses something like this to kill bacteria and keep stuff fresh longer. Interesting.
I've seen similar claims on other fridges, usually it's only adjustable-vented veggie drawer. Nothing special other than a vent to control how much of the refrigerated air flows through.
How does the voltage rise with only diodes and capacitors?
This type of circuit is called a voltage multiplier and is fairly common in electronic devices. See en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voltage_multiplier for a more detailed explanation of its operation.
0:02 What are those DIY Electrocution Devices for connecting to mains called, and where can I buy one?
@@majortom5838 We had one at school. I remember an incident with one of them, a variac, a 8 inch nail, and loads of copper wire. How we laughed as our school chum twitched on the floor.
@@majortom5838 Know any "cheaper" version or what one might search ali for?
Wonder why manufacturers don’t fit one as standard in a fridge?
230 PIXIES THROUGH IT?LOL
Now we know...
Which is the solvent bicclive?
Acetone works on some resins.
Today on will it carbonize . . .
2.24 Clive opens it and stabs his finger with one of the electrodes of this dodgy Chinesium ion generator WHILE IT'S TURNED on! LOL.
The Depottment Department.
They should make these for washing machines, or do you think the steel would react badly
A proper bubbler ozone generator would be better.
Definitely heard an electrical buzz when you brought it near the microphone, just had to turn my headphones up.
Seems kind of sketchy to me, really
Is it possible to measure nitrogen oxides, to find out whether it's also breaking apart N2 rather than just O2. My understanding is they form in strings of varying numbers of N and O. The downside is formation of nitric acid with moisture present. While ozone from UV at 185 nm avoids breaking up N2, acting only on O2, or so I hear. A meter for just NO2 would maybe be an analog for all of its nasty cousins and good enough. Prices vary a lot. Anyone with experience using some of them?
Not sure, but if an atom of oxygen combines with a nitrogen molecule it could create nitrous oxide. As used to whip cream for hot chocolate.
actuallly the technology has been around for quite sometime, Sharp Air Purifier has this module in all their models and they call it Plasmacluster Ion.
I took one apart:-
ua-cam.com/video/re4F-_FGFvI/v-deo.html
@@bigclivedotcom nice tear down video with full of details. thank you i really enjoyed the video.
I recently adopted a cat and my family member seems to have allergic reaction to dander, a doctor recommended an air cleaner so we purchased philips air purifier unit(non ionizer), it seems to reduce just a little symptoms even though the PM2.5 meter is always below 10ppm, and then we bought a used Sharp Plasmacluster air purifier after few days of using the results allergy is gone no more runny nose i couldnt believe it the plasma ion technology really helps reducing allergies so i was digging into the technology and thats how i got here.lol
I ordered similar product reviewed here called Bipolar Ion Generator a.aliexpress.com/_mKL1La5 and going to install it throughout the house but little concerned about ozone byproduct
@@azlannakamoto7913 It's trace ozone. At the same level as nature. That seemed a good price until I saw the £39.99 for shipping here.
@@bigclivedotcom what a ripoff lol..i paid $10 shipping to my country
Is this CE marked or from 1 Jan 2021 CUK or CNI marked ? If not is it legal to sell / buy it ? Note there is apparently some UK legislation on the way to make sellers on ebay & similar liable for damages caused by their products. There is a story on the BBC web site about a house that apparently burnt down following a battery & charger purchased from ebay setting the house on fire - the family were lucky to escape though as they had let their house insurance lapse it is probably the most expensive item they will ever get from ebay.
Clive.. electrostatic hvac filters are almost as old as maytag...
They are. The primary purpose of this device seems to produce trace ozone.
The potting seemed pretty solid. Is that a suitable method to "uprate" the components to handling that much voltage?
I would guess the ceramic layer thickness would be a significant part of the voltage rating.
The voltage rating of a capacitor is determined by the thickness of its dielectric. Adding protection _around_ it might make it safer for humans, but won't stop the capacitor being destroyed by overvoltage.
I can never get my head around ozone. It's both necessary and toxic. Obviously there's a happy medium to be around, possibly when we're getting fried alive fish suppers at the beach on a sunny day: ozone, seaweed and sun tan oil.
The ozone smell at beaches is actually just a scent from various sea foliage. In nature ozone occurs at around 0.04 parts per million. It's considered it may be beneficial to emulate the natural level indoors.
Couldn’t see the same question in the comments, what solvent did you use?
Acetone. Only works with some resins.
Sounds like a bad idea. Wouldn't the ozone pit the plastic of teh fridge walls creating a more ideal environment for microscopic life?