Will Receiving Philippine SS Benefit reduce my US Benefit? [Windfall Elimination Provision]
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- Опубліковано 11 жов 2024
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My sister's sister-in-law had her US SSS benefits reduced by $100 due to her Phiil SSS pension then refunded after her appeal. She earned her Phil pension when she worked in the Phil prior to becoming a US citizen. If the US SSS pursues deducting the Phil pension from the US pension, it is like robbing the FIL AM of their hard-earned pensions prior to becoming a US citizen. Also, the Phil pension is usually directy deposited to the local Phil banks where the Value-added taxes are charged every month, and so because of the US/Phil treaty for no double taxation, IRS cannot tax this Phil pension in the US during tax period. I'm not a tax lawyer, just based on research.
A long dead friend of my Grandfather collected both Phil & US Social Security... It was a real mess on the US side. Philippine earnings before he moved to the US, US Earnings while he was a US Permanent Resident, BOTH US & Phil Earnings after he became a US Citizen, some earned in the US, some earned in the Philippines... US Law, Philippine Law AND Treaties between the two nations all were in play. Took a US Tax Attorney writing letters to eventually get him more $$$ from US Social Security.
Sir I was a green card holder yet when I retired here in the US. I was retired also in The Philippines and receiving a pension at the GSIS.
They applied the windmil elimination program and i explained I was not yet an immigrant here and I paid my taxes there. Why do you have to apply that WEP in my case? The lady that processed my retirement in SSA just said it's the law.i said it's silly and a very unfair law.
I’m from the UK, lived and worked there for most of my life, moved to the US and worked there for 26 years, when I retired I got small UK pension but the US took that off my Social Security 😡
@Vlogger Grandpa Maraming Salamat Po! Thank You for Tackling such a Complicated and Open-Ended Subject! Even if We narrowed down the WEP to the Specific Ruling regarding "Philippine SSS Pensions" along with the Calculations of Penalty Percentages, as you mentioned, Why does a Windfall apply and What Is A Fair Penalty Percentage.
I am a Former Filipino who was Naturalized U.S. Citizen back in 1988 and I am now planning to Retire Back Home to the Philippines.
I had already been planning to Pay Into the Philippine SSS (Approximately $60/Quarter or $240/Year X 10 Years Minimum or $2,400) which is why this Windfall Elimination Provision needed to be researched and taken into consideration as far as the impact of WEP Penalty Percentages and Whether or Not having BOTH SS and SSS Pensions is Beneficial in the Long-Term.
Since I will be of eligible age for Philippine SSS DURING The Minimum SSS 10-Year Pay-In Period, I plan on Paying-Off that 10-Year Premium just in time for when My Age coincides with Philippine SSS Retirement Eligibility.
So, Is having BOTH SS and Philippine SSS Beneficial or Not especially when considering WEP Penalty Deductions are in U.S. Dollars and Philippine SSS Benefits are in Philippine Pesos.
It sounds like you Philippines SSS was based only on voluntary contributions, right? If so, WEP does not apply to you. From USA SSA GN 00307.290,
"vidence of Foreign Pensions and the Windfall Elimination Provision (WEP)",
"Payments that cannot be used to apply the WEP Guarantee Provision:
Some foreign pensions are not based in whole or in part on ***work performed*** after 1956.Therefore, the following foreign pension payments cannot be used to apply the WEP Guarantee Provision:
a. Universal pension supplements
payable to all aged individuals in a particular country, and not just to qualified workers.
b ***---> The part of a pension based on
voluntary Social Security contributions
that somecountries allow individuals to make to increase the amount of their pension.
In some cases, the WEP won’t apply to you, even if you have a noncovered pension. You may get an exception if you:
Had at least 30 years of substantial earnings on which you paid Social Security taxes.
Hi grandpa…. There is an existing treaty between canada, usa, and philippines.-- which is little known.
It has to do with unemployment benefits and social security credits , old age pension and cpp.
All good reasons for WEP
all good reason for wep? wtf?
I f you are receiving Partial retirement from the US (retired early at 62), yes I believed will be reduced if you are receiving SSS pension from the Philippines. It is the same thing as still working and at the same time receiving that partial retirement from the US. However, if you have reached your full retirement age, that should not matter anymore and the US will no longer deduct from your pension even if you are still working and making more than what you are receiving in your Social Security pension.
You mentioned about working andaking payments on this system like you here and also your deductions pn your payments
Thank you Vlogger Granda for bringing up this topic. I read comments regarding this topic from your different videos. When my husband applied for his retirement benefits in April 2022 he was interviewed by the SSA staff that was handling his application. After his interview my husband asked the SSA staff that if and when it is my right time to received my SSA benefit, will the SSS pension that I may be receiving from the Philippines will be affected the SSA benefit that I may be receiving. My husband clearly told the SSA staff that my contribution to the SSS was a long long time ago when I was still a Filipino Citizen. The SSA staff said that SSA and the Philippines have no agreement about that. In short, how much I may be receiving from SSA will not be affected by SSS pension. Still I am interested to learn more from different experiences from our kababayan. By the way I have been a Naturalized US Citizen since 2018. Now I am 61 and planning to apply for my SSS pension but the problem is I don't have a Philippine bank account which is required by the SSS.
You can open an account with a US-based PNB branch that can be used for direct deposit of your PHL SSS pension. BUT DO NOT GO DIRECTLY to your US-based PNB branch. There is an SSS representative in the PHL consulate that has jurisdiction over your state. The first step is to contact that SSS representative via e-mail to inform them of your desire to apply for your SSS pension and to have that pension deposited in a US-based PNB branch. Unlike other staff of the consulate, the SSS representative usually responds within one business day. This is based on my experience with the SSS rep at the LA Consulate.
The SSS representative will e-mail an E-4 (Members Data Change Request Form) so you can update your SSS member data with your US address and contact information. She will then e-mail a Letter of Introduction (LOI) addressed to the PNB Branch nearest to your location. Upon receiving the LOI, the PNB branch will e-mail to you the bank forms required to open a direct-deposit account with them. After you have successfully opened the PNB direct deposit account, the SSS representative will give you instructions to file for your SSS pension online. I hope this helps.
But why others are getting deducted from their SSA pension bec they are receiving SSS benefit? im still lost
That deduction is for your Part B premium.
It happened to my mother-in-law. SSS deducted her monthly pension by $100+ when the she mentioned that she does received a Philippine pension.
That’s true Sir, it happened to my sister in law also, she’s a dual citizen. SSA personnel asked if she is receiving Phil pension and she answered yes, they deducted $100 from her pension.
was she getting USA SS on her own record, or fully from deceased husband only??
@@ofeliagarcia3869 Was her Phils pension based on employment in the Philippines or voluntary contributions? If voluntary contributions only, USA citizen or Phils citizen, then WEP does NOT apply. There are other reasons that WEP may not apply as well. Best to tell SSA the full story, not just that she is receiving a Philippine SSS pension, especially if she never had an employer funded SSS account.
Complicated issues for sure, we don’t plan on working in the Phil.,just retire totally🧐
Put simply, if you are getting US Social security benefits, you are subject to US tax laws. If you are subject to US tax laws, they will consider ALL income in computing how much to tax you. Its the same as if I live in the US but work for a German company. They will compute your German earnings to your overall earnings. WITH THE UNDERSTANDING that they will not double tax you. That means if Germany already taxes you, the US will NOT TAX YOU ALSO. But it doesnt change the fact, you have to declare earnings and your taxes paid by one country or the other. You cant go to another country to prevent paying your total tax. The PI also has that type of tax treaty with the US. If you are filing US tax return and you are getting income from PI, the PI WILL report your earnings to US. So you better declare it. They will not tax you if you pay your required PI taxes on earnings. You have foreign tax exemptio, So you are NOT GAINING ANYTHING BY HIDING IT. Except you can be charged for filing false taxes. Which is frankly, really stupid. I have seen people risk 10’s of thousands of dollars just to hide what amounts to less than $100 a month from PI that they didnt need to hide.
Hi grandpa while collecting social security in United States once you reach maximum age meaning age 66 you can earn money without reducing your benefits according to social security administration now if I get a retirement visa I can't stay more that 6 months your medicare will drop so best you travel back to America so when you visit doctor appointment you can use your medicare card because in my situation I have two medical insurance because I retired from city service but my Medicare is my primary insurance and my my secondary would be my city service which is lifetime my union yes still in union which cover drugs dental and eyeglass I travel back and forth enjoy my life time of work hope I give some insight god bless.
Good point 👉
Hello Grandpa Vlogger! My wife, a dual citizen Philippine/American is planning to move back to the Philippines after my death. She will have to pay US income tax on the dividends she receives from several stocks we own. Can she give up her American citizenship and not owe income tax on the dividends she receives after my death? Perhaps a video on this topic would be very helpful to others as well as us.
She still need to pay tax after because the dividend is in US ..I believe.
Giving up your US citizenship is not easy. You may be better of staying a US citizen unless dividend received is higher than the threshold to be taxable. How much are you talking about?
Sounds like it may be best to consult a SS attorney for ur own situation.
Thank you for answering my question.
- [ ] I am 39 years old US green card holder. I worked in the Philippines for 5 years and migrated to the US. I’ve been in US for 3 years now. I still pay voluntary SSS contribution in the Philippines while working here in US. My plan is to continuously pay voluntary SSS contribution in Philippines while working here in US until I reach my retirement age. I also plan to become a dual citizen in the near future. Will I be affected by WEP?
Will standard deduction applies for income earned abroad? The maximum Philippine SSS pension is 20,000 pesos ($400) X 12 months = $ 4,800 which is less than standard deduction.
I will set an appointment with SS lawyer to ask these questions. I will let you know once I get an answer.
The question is will you be applying for U.S. citizenship. As a, and while a permanent resident of the U.S. (as a green card holder), you will be subject to U.S. taxes on your worldwide income. Once you give up your U.S. permanent residence, you will be taxed in the U.S. only on US -source income and as a non-resident. Best to check with your accountant regarding this because a lot of factors will have to be considered.
Thanks. I will ask my tax accountant and will let you know her reponse
Please do!
I do not know the answer to this question, but I will mention there may be a connection if you have not reached full retirement age (FRA). There is an earnings penalty if you draw SS benefits above a certain dollar amount. This may impact this discussion.
That is correct.
If you make or withdraw to much from ur retirement accounts ur SS benefits may be reduced for 1yr. Not sure how much you can make or withdraw to trigger that reduction.
Hello po. I was married to a us citizen and he came here in the Philippines and we got married. He didnt come back anymore in America and was receiving his monthly pension through direct deposit in philippine bank. He died in November 2022 under my custody. My concern is can i claim his benefits in ssa when i reach 60y/o? I dont live in usa and not even a us citizen. Were married for 4years and 10 months.
Thank you so much for your answer
Humm! I'm not sure. You might be entitled to a survivor benefit at the right age. Please check with Social Security Administration to be sure.
Probably dont report his death in the US, then you will still receive the pension for another 100 years.
What kind of advice, you can have survival benefits if you live in the u.s for 5 years or more.
There is one case/condition that is not being considered: a Filipina who has a Philippine pension, married to an American who subsequently died, and is eligible for 100% of his Social Security benefit from the USA. At no time did the Filipino wife, who was married more than 10 years, but never, ever worked or earned a single penny in the United States and never paid a single social security tax. In this case, the Social Security office said that there is no WEP to be applied. The WPA calculator tool on the Social Security site seems to back up this condition and result. Again, it appears that having a foreign pension is not a trigger for the WEP if the spouse is receiving the deceased spouses’ Social Security amount and never, ever worked on the record for any dollars in the USA and never paid into the USA Social Security system… thus the WEP would not apply as I understand it…
If you receive a non-covered pension you are under obligation to report it to the US Social Security based on your application signature. Weather WEP applies is another issue.
@@eugeneahearn8299 Not if your entire Philippine pension was based upon voluntary contributions. Everything I reads says pension subject to WEP are only based on employment (I ie, employer funded based on work). The law seems to exempt foreign SSS pensions based only on *voluntary contributions * to your SSS bank account. That is more like an investment than a pension. If the source of said pension is the Philippines, then by treaty, only Philippine taxes are required, and nothing is required to declare or pay to US IRS or declare to SSA. Another provision I read is, If the Filipina never worked in the USA or Philippines, no WEP is deducted from *spousal benefit*. Voluntary contributions are something many Filipinos do, even while living in the USA, funding their SSS banks accounts from dollar salaries that were, btw, subjected to USA SSA taxes. Yes, it is a complicated subject but you need to read the law and in doing so, do not lose sight of employer paid vs voluntary contributions to Phils SSS and not based on Fils employer contributions and whether the US SSA benefit is a spousal benefit only and not based on work in the USA.
First off, you are entitled to receive US SSS pension if you earned 40 units or have worked for at least 10 years and a US citizen starting at age 62. Per SSS 2008 bulletin, WEP does not apply to survivors benefits, you are a federal worker first hired after Dec 31, 1983; you were employed on Dec 31, 1983 by a non-profit organization that did not withold SS taxes from your pay at first, but then began witholding SS taxes from yur pay; your only pension is based on railroad employemnt; te only work you did where you did not pay SS taxes was before 1957; YOU HAVE 30 OR MORE YEARS OF SUBSTANTIAL EARNINGS UNDER SOCAIL SECURITY.
Manong kumusta po! I just became a dual citizen of the U.S and the Phillipines. Im going to leave the U S early next year after I sell my home. My question is how much money can I make in the Phillipines without being taxed in the U S. Also, if I don't make any money in the Phillipines I shouldn't have to worry about being taxed in the U.S? Correct?
Any amount you make anywhere if you keep your usa citizenship you pay income taxes on, being retired in usa also you only allowed to make to much a month on order to not be having to pay back your retirement socoal security checks and that can be all paid back reguardless your age 62 or 162. Plus if dual citizen you are responcible to pay philippines taxes also on your retirement income from usa. If give up your usa citizenship , you sign off all your retirement from usa. If you get welfare state disability called ssi and medicaid in the state in usa you are resident, it stops once leave usa. It not social security. Only social security and medicare is good out of usa or travel insurance that states you be in philippines 12 months and no longer or it void. Next ?
Their a gob book about the law just look it up. I did it before I became U.S citizen.
Hello grandpa, question lang po. can you still collect Social Security in the Philippines even though you are not a Pilipino Citizen anymore?
I assume that to be the case because I was offered to get my benefits if I payup the minimum amount required for me to be entitled to benefit. I decided not to accept their offer. However, I'm dual and I can't remember if I disclosed that. Please call Philippine Social Security to find out for sure.
@@vloggergrandpa2707 Thank you Grandpa. I appreciate you. God Bless!
Yes, definitely, if you have 10 years working years in the PH, provided you and your employer(s) paid SS contribution.
Yes you still can collect apply to sss.gov.ph on line
Good evening grandpa blogger! I’m a senior citizen living in the west coast state. I have twin children. They were born in USA before I became citizen. Are my twins considered both Filipino & American citizens? If they are both considered dual citizens then their income are also taxable in the Philippines? I believed we have to go to Philippine consulate to present their birth certificates & my naturalization certificate to prove that they are Filipinos at the time they were born. Can you enlighten me more about this issue? Thank you very much!
I believe Phil dual citizenship is not automatic. Children who have one or more Filipino parents who were born in the US need to apply at the Phil Embassy or in the Phil Foreign Affairs Dept to have dual citizenship.
Were already 63 abd planning to claim Ph SSS pension. Should we wait to claim US SSS pension first before we file for PH SSS pension?
If you are looking for a possible WEP loophole, sorry but the sequence of filing of SSA and SSS benefits does not matter. In the application form for Social Security Retirement Benefits (SSA-1-BK), question #11 asks the following:
a) Do you (or your spouse) have Social Security credits (for example based on work or residence) under another country’s Social Security system? (If yes, answer b & c)
b) List the country(ies)
c) Are you (or your spouse) filing for foreign Social Security system?
In the same application form, you will also sign to the following statement: “I agree to promptly notify the Social Security Administration if I become entitled to a pension, an annuity, or a lump sum payment based on my employment not covered by Social Security, or if such pension or annuity stops.”
I got my SSS/ Phil before i became a US citizen….i have a relative who got SSI/USA and SSS/Phil Their benefit is reduced by $ 100 each of the couple because they just got their citizenship recently…
I get my social security benefit here in the US Not deducting my SSS benefit in the Phil
SSI is the welfare program. 100% of any pension would be deducted.
@@eugeneahearn8299 Yes, a welfare program because the USA government broke their commitments and cratered the trust fund that was supposed to pay us after retirement. Having said that, I have zero shame collecting the payments that I do not consider a benefit or entitlement because I paid in and am now getting them back, albeit rather a poor return.
That is good po@@lulucastillo7269
@@lulucastillo7269sana po sakin din
No, you will know you become a usa citizen, if you know you a citizen of philippines ?? Because , you must take a history and laugage test to become a usa citizen, if you are a citizen from philippines. Next ?
US pension benefits has nothing to do with PH SSS pension or any other country. PH SSS pension have business with US SS pension benfits.
Thank you sir question about the Filipina which was a US citizen because the father was a US citizen and American so does not that Filipina have dual citizenship I mean she was born in the Philippines after all right she must have dual citizenship that's crazy she would have to pay taxes payment though she was born in the Philippines my hearing is correctly unbelievable money money wow no matter what
You have to established first if she is a "dual" citizen. If so, only her U.S.-source income is taxable. Philippine-source income is not. Her social security may also be subject to WEP adjustment. Not sure!
Okay honey I understand
@@vloggergrandpa2707 thank you sir for the reply
No, you must apply for dual citizenship in usa first, you have a time plan by the usa imagration office and the phiippines embassy in your usa area. Its not automatically done, your dad knows this. For some reason he did not want you a philippines and usa dual citizen.
@@michaelspencer6523 okay I see what you mean it's good to know because wife she want babies so I'm ready it's good to know these things thanks for sharing
Wrong. You forget in 1898 usa purchased philippines from spain at same time usa purchased hawaii and quam from spain. Usa made philippines a usa colony and quam a usa territory and hawaii a usa state. In 1952 after ww2 , usa remodified all its properties it owns plus added a war treaty unto it. In case of war usa is held accountable to protect all its propertys. Now say it not usa bussiness.