Something to watch out for is HAV (Hand Arm Vibration) problems. Using vibrating tools should not be done for long periods of time, it is very tempting to keep going until the job is done. Take frequent breaks and take care.
How about fu*k off with: "be carefull you will die if you..." shits ? He (and all of us watching this) is not working in industry, 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, but once in a year or a several months maybe. Do not put industrial standards in hoby shop.
In coal mining decades ago using compressed air tools the injury it caused was called vibration white finger. Remember seeing it on the local news in the 70s in Wales
@@HT-io1eg yes.. for someone who worked full shift every day. Not for hoby machinist using 100 times less power tool once in a year. I'm realy sick of 'do not leave the key in to the chuck, it's gone kill you'' trols
I'm a welder/metal fab, some jobs are 7.5 hours/shift on a pneumatic grinder. There are guys in the shop that have been doing it 30 years. Not one case of white finger. Yes it's a very definite thing but he's not going to get it from this!
There are air reciprocating file tools that are fairly inexpensive and could possibly work as a scraper. The scraper blade would need to be small but I think it would work. Great build idea you have, really enjoyed the process and progress.
You’re a great inspiration to most of us, I’ve always wanted to make a machine scraper and I really appreciate your have a go attitude. I was a toolmaker and involved with product development for 20years and it doesn’t happen overnight .
I'm no expert in air tools, but that sounds a lot like trying to limit the current through a resistor within changing the voltage. i.e., impossible (while it may have the same pressure with no load, surely it would decrease in pressure when loaded)
Unless he adds a flow regulator to the output of the machine, its impossible to regulate flow without effecting downstream pressure. Look up meter out vs meter in to understand more if you like, but you are on the right train of thought.
This is a clever design, definitely worth trying. For those of us here in the US who think we might just go down to the nearest Home Depot and pick up a Ryobi AirWave reciprocating saw to duplicate this build I believe there may be some disappointment, as it seems to be a product that is local to Australia. Fortunately there are many other similar saws available here but be aware that it may take a little searching to find one from the same factory but perhaps badged with different retail label. Online auction sites might yield some results. Thanks for posting!
Ryobi is a hugely popular brand here in Aus and we have a lot of Ryobi branded tools that are probably specific to Australia, right down to how the product numbers are labelled.
Ryobi is available in Sweden, so it seems to be an actual brand. (With a lot of other stuff, the manufacturer will put any name on the procuct, that the buyer decides. I've done that with consumer electronic's.)
Harbor Freight air saw for car body work. Cheap and if you screw it up it is only $25 for a new one. If you are a real weasel, you can turn it back in for a replacement by claiming it doesn't work.
Agreed, and compressors don't have to be that bad - mine lives in a box with baffled vents and some hanging carpet on some rubber isolation feet that turns the 100db into a much more comfortable if still loud sound. Now with the workshop doors open its quiet enough to be lost in the usual daytime background noises of a city with only 10 to maybe 20 odd meters of distance, and close the workshop door I can use it at night without anybody but be being bothered. Though it is still loud enough you'd want ear protection to share the space with it, but so so much better.
I recently purchased a so called silent air compressor. Well it isn't silent but compared to the Ozito air compressor you have, and I had the difference is night and day. With my milling machine and lathe listening to how they cut is important and a 93dba air compressor doesn't help. My quiet air compressor takes 60 seconds to full pressure and it's importantly quiet 😊
Get a second hand dentist's air compressor. They are extremely quiet. My mother had a dental practice and when the old compressor broke, the technician brought a regular air compressor temporarily. It was very loud for a dentist's office. They are similar to compressors in fridges
If you look at a real powerscraper the stroke goes perpendicular to the surface and the tool is angled down toward the surface. On your airsaw the stroke goes down to the surface at ~30* with a straight tool basicly picking away instead of scraping. I dident listen to the video you might already be aware just tought i mention it. Its always nice to have something powered to atleast take most of the material off and just laying the finishing touches by hand.
It is slightly different but I found that it was still producing the scraper pattern I was looking for and producing the oil gulleys too. But there’s always room for further modifications
I always thought you'd make another one but I didn't think it would be so soon well done, there's no failed projects if you don't ever give up on the project
When I rebuilt my mill I did this and found that I used both a air and manual scrapper. Sometimes the manual one just is better but if you've got a lot to remove air or electrical can't be beat. Slow and steady is the key. Great video
Nice work. I tried to modify a reciprocating saw, but it left scratches. I think there was too much lateral scraper movement in mine. This project was a great idea and I may try this out. You may want to think about improving your carbide blade edge grinding by using a lower RPM and implementing a diamond wheel They really put a nice edge on the carbide. Cheers from Florida’s Space Coast.
i think using both the pneumatic and the handscraper is the way to go, do 95% with the machine and hone it in by hand, i recon you have much better control with hand scraping compared to the machine, especially on relatively small surfaces. but hey, it works, great job
You should see about doing a small side project of making a sound dampening box for your compressor. LTT channel did something like some weeks ago where they constructed a box with foam inside. Airflow was able to move around the corners or baffles while fan noise was absorbed by the foam. This could make running your compressor much more bearable.
I like the idea of using a pneumatic tool. They’re generally lighter. It does seem to run really fast compared to a biax. My Milwaukee power scraper is variable speed but I do find it quite heavy and tiring to operate. Great job.
Well, i think You didn't consider one important thing. As for movement geometry Your design just rams straight into scraped item like a hammer, not sliding the carbide. Like the Biax, You have to replicate a slide movement with carbide being at angle, not straight. So to scrape with this air saw, You have to hold it flat to scraping area and set the carbide at an angle like 15-30 degrees. The movement has to be dead flat to the surface that youre scraping.
@@artisanmakes It seems like all you'd need to do is make a head where the blade is angled down. Abom79 has a great video on scraping basics and there's a biax in operation in the video. It really looks like you're 90% there. That and a needle valve to control the speed.
Greetings from across the pond...Actually looked like it works great. using a dremmel to put in grooves would overcome the small places for oil problem. its very fine but that looks lke it wont affect it....fantastic idea
to slow it down a bit you could try adding a needle valve throttle to the muffler, that way control is very precise and the tool doesnt suffer from power loss or slip stick. thats how its usually done on pneumatic cylinder
A thing that I can recommend: hand lapping. It is even cheaper than scraping, you only need the grit, which you can get for about 20 bucks. Your lapping plates are done from some scrap, and you can even lap your own surface plate. I did, and got it to 1.2um total deviation. Your tools and workpieces can be lapped too. Easy and cheap processy, requires little practice. Or rather you'll get all the practice you need while lapping your plates.
There are air hammers/ impact chisels that have more power and build exactly for this kind of application. Those are heavier and have more power so can cut deeper and with more confidence. This feels more like sanding ( finishing scraping ) and not removing a lot of material. Nice video though 👍🏻
Wondering how the scraper blades are holding up. I looked at them at the "red hammer" store and they are described as carbide tipped - maybe that's the long edges only. Appreciate your views given experience with hand scraping using same items
A few years ago, someone else did this, with the angle grinder, but I really didn’t like what he did. I’m curious as what your solution will be. I scrape annually, but I avoid it whenever I can. This seems to work well enough, but it’s bouncing around too much. I do think that bothe the stroke and speed should be moderated. Being that this seems a light lighter than the occasional power scrapers I’ve used in the past, that’s one of the reasons. There’s not enough mass to keep it from jumping.Hardened surfaces aren’t scraped, just ground. But people also have to understand that often scraping, even when done correctly, doesn’t add to the accuracy of the equipment.
Also, you can make attachments like.. a needler for paint/scale removal. Of course, you could use it as a saw.. you know.. for those 6" chunks of steel you like using a hacksaw on. ;)
I was thinking along the same thing as you for changing the stroke length however after giving it more thought I came to another possibility that would give you easy stroke length adjustability: Could you not mount a locked post and use a see-saw or teeter-totter lever with one side attached to the double acting piston and then adjust either the point or the length of the lever after the locked center post. This gives you the advantage of easy access to relocating the 2nd point as well as offsetting it at a lower angle of attack while keeping your hand and the tool body up away from the surface. This also keeps the original rpm lower than by artificially forcing the dual acting piston to become smaller with spacers which would increase the rpm.
Hi great video just thought I'd drop a comment my dad was an engineer in a machine tool manufacturer who built huge planes the cast iron beds were scraped to allow for a bed of oil that the plane head ran on these cast iron surfaces that could be several meters long were hand scraped in a circular motion to allow for a small indentation and per 1 inch square there had to be 12 semi circles or the area had to be reworked !
Try looking at a "Turbo lap" or a "Diprofil" it's what i use in the toolmaking industry. They rely on small high frequency movements which are much more useful than smashing the life out of it with a jackhammer. They're designed for polishing but I've made scraper attachments and it works well. I've never found flat square front scrapers to work well as they dig in the harder you push, I grind up old triangle files and riffler files and pull the scraper towards by hand.
I concur with others regarding the need to make the scraper blade off-axis to the reciprocation. An inclined blade mount will also be a bit stronger than the one you've used. I know next to nothing about air tools, but I wonder if decreasing the size of the exhaust port would enable you to slow it down, perhaps with a needle valve? You'd need to be careful with your inlet pressure though! I also wonder whether rubber o-rings would be a better material for the spacer. I'd probably glue some thick neoprene to the body too, to give a bit more control and to reduce the amount of vibration your body is subjected too. As rudimentary as this tool is, I think it has promise! I might not want to use for the final passes, but it looks like it could do well for roughing in. You definitely need to make yourself a slow carbide grinder and jig to get your blade geometry right. The cutting edge should be precise and polished, with just the right radius and cutting angle for the material you are scraping. I'm in New Zealand, a remote land that apparently no Biax ever reached, so I'm really interested to see what enhancements you can come up with, so that I can shamelessly copy!
if you reduced the flex in the tongue of the holder by replacing the piece of flatbar with a machined block it would probably remove more stock per stroke and allow you to press down more firmly if you wnated to. I also think the unsupported tongue will shear off after a few hours if left hanging as it is.
Consider turning your scraper blade retention plate into a retention block that mates against the mandrel perpendicular face. That will help prevent flex fatigue and eventual failure.
It seems like it reciprocates less in length and is more accurate, but I would have thought you'd want a longer stroke, closer to what you'd get by hand but not quite that long or inaccurate, in order to have more dips and troughs in between strokes when hatching at different angles. The longer the stroke, the more widely separated each groove is if you move it from left to right at the same speed, and I would think it would dig slightly deeper which would also help with the whole oil thing. However, i am very impressed with your design as always. Cheap, effective, and relatively easy. Definitely on brand lol. It takes a lot of engineering to figure this stuff out though so youre helping a lot of people with these videos
Something I have done is put my air compressor out side in a simple enclosure to keep the elements off of it. I love air tools but hate the compressor noise and in a small shop like yours the noise must be deafening.
Might retain more moisture & contaminants in the tank unless you added additional filtration to the intake. Also out of sight we tend to forget to drain the tank so replace barb drain valve most portables have with an elbow & flexible line. Run to an easily accessible ball valve to blow off as needed or use an auto drain if it's being used regularly.
I don't use mine much, because it is loud and normal tools mostly work. I saw plans somewhere where someone made a simply box frame from foam board, with 2 layers about 1" apart at some angle which helped reflect/cancel a lot of the noise.
@@boots7859 Problem with a tight enclosure is heat generation, hotter the air the more moisture it can hold. When the air cools in the tank the moisture is released thus more water to drain. A small factory wanted to cut down the noise so surrounded compressor with Pink bats - cooked the compressor due to no air flow. Ever touched the hard pipe from compressor to tank - scolding hot.
Try less stiff blade (little longer and thinner), in original Biax it mounted in rubber cushing, rubber is quite stiff but it absorbs shock and allow blade to "slide" over surface
you might consider making a longer piece of spring steel at the front, then adding your blade to give you a bit of flexibility and better control. just to get rid of that jackhammer feeling! so you can flake out rather than pound them out, and control the speed a will help a lot.
Instead of lowering your air pressure, drill and tap a set screw/bolt into the handle where the 'button' is after bending it out to reduce how much you are deflecting the other end of the 'button'. Pretty sure there is a better term than button, but cant think of it. Would probably shoot for some really fine thread because 1-the handle isnt particularly thick (Unless you wanna make a thicker one), and 2, would allow you to fine control the speed. Looked like part of your issue for the test run was hitting the carbide in and getting 10 strokes against the metal before you can react. might need tighter tolerances, but you already sanded the shaft into compliance, so not much to really shoot for there. Another thing might be a more rigid system to hold the scraper, but that would be a solution if you were flattening dozens of surfaces a day, not a couple per decade.
Nice work! There are more materials that can be scraped. The UA-cam channel, "An Engineers Findings" discusses in a video or two scraping a approx. 1 meter long straight edge made from welded pieces of steel and how the rake angle of the carbide needs to be a +3° rather than a -3° for cast iron ( I may not remembering the correct rake angles, but it was a negative rake angle for case iron and positive for steel.) Also, I scraped one flange of a piece of stainless steel channel as part of making a precision machinist level.
You know the adapter is simple enough that it could be mass produced and likely sold as a seperate adapter for these reciprocating saws or made in to an entirely seperate pneumatic tool with slightly different parts like softer springs to reduce vibration in your hands as someone else had said. If you wanted a passive income stream I'd patent this adapter and contact TTI or Ryobi to talk aboout production. If power scrapers are becoming more popular thanks to the internet, there's a chance they're so expensive due to either complex manufatury or because they're still such a specialised tool that their only use case is precision industry, but a simpler design may bring them to a consumer market. I'd be curious to compare your design to an official power scraper to see the viability of a patent.
theres a engraver called "Vibrograv" (probably only a old german thing) but its a recipicating needle for marking parts with text. its actually horrible as a tool but how it works might be interessting its literally just using a E I core transformer where the laminated I part is hinged on one side and gets attracted to the E part every cycle and pushed back by a spring at the other end of the I beam theres a rod connecting it to the linear head containing the needle. i think thats a good point to start for a electric scraper its range of motion is quite short and it runs at 50 or 100 strokes per second
hey, you need something that flexxes up front . i spoke to the European Biax Specialist ( kingway Consultant ) a while ago, and you realy want some piece up front that has flex. the biax scrapers use 2,5mm -3mm thick steel that is tempered to a springiness . that allows to even out inbalances. i am 100% sure if u buy one of the 20mm wide biax Long scraper blade you will get much better results
That was going to be the back up design of the directly mounted carbide didn’t work. I think it may be better but I’m still getting great results with the direct mount. Cheers
@@artisanmakes if u want to get a better result, i highly recommend you to make a grinding jig and u need a smaller blade width ( 15 mm for example with a 40mm radius, and if u want to hit more PPi smaller 10mm or 15mm width, 20mm radius on the blade.most people scrapoe with way to big radius and width, and scrape not deep enough. by using smaller radii it would alow you to split the points accurate( when u examine your highspots, you should actualy only split the spot that you blued, not remove the whole thing " ) . what you are currently doing is that you constaly remove almost your whole points ( they are still way to big because perhaps your radius is to wide ! ).that way you get changing results and you will not be able to get consistency between the blueing. and you can only hit those points by going over them with smaller radius and blade diameter.i didnt understood , why my pattern stalled at a certain point , until i reached out to a Kingway scraping consultant and he explained me very well that if i dont use smaller radius, the scraping pattern will remain coarse, and you will not be able to get good ppi. also try to thin out your prussian blue more. to me you had a pretty thick layer. i use something called Canode Blue, i can tell from first hand experience it works way better than regular Artisan paint. but i can understand...u have to take whats available.
Great conversion. I noticed that you only had a 24 litre tank on your compressor. How well did it keep up with air consumption? I ask because I have a similar sized compressor myself which is constantly cycling even with a simple air brush.
Was thinking about wall mounting a compressor on the outside of my shop and using a quick connect bulk head to go through the wall so I don't have to listen to a loud compressor. Does this seem like a good idea?
Great design.👍 In scraping, I always wonder how the material is removed from the base of such a vice, it can be obtained its flatness but how do we know that we will do it symmetrically and after installation on the table of a milling machine, the vice database and its jaws will not be flat and diagonally relative to the processing plane? Super projekt. W skrobaniu zastanawia mnie zawsze jedna sprawa, jak usuwa się materiał z podstawy takiego imadła to można uzyskać jego płaskość ale skąd wiemy że zrobimy to symetrycznie i po zamontowaniu na stole frezarki baza imadła i jego szczęki nie będą płaskie a po skosie względem płaszczyzny obróbki?
That’s the difficult bit. Making it parallel. You crape the bottom. Scrape the top. Then you use an indicator and 123 blocks to see if the top is level. If it isn’t you scrape the high end down to make it level and flat with the low. It’s a lot of work
First off, love all your videos and work you do! An idea: You could start a side business selling mod kits to permit home machinists to convert the Ryobi to become a make-shift power scraper. There is alot of home enthusiast machinist who would buy it. I think you could easily sell over 100 kits to be honest. If you had a CNC shop help you mass produce the conversion parts based off say your CAD/ technical drawing your, and you sold them as a kit... its a business endeavor/ product you'd be offering based off your design. Its hard to find a good value power scraper for the home shop (here in the UK, the cheapest ones are easily over 1,000 GBP) . So you'd be solving a problem many of us have in the home shop if you did decide to offer say a conversion kit, and rightfully so, you'd make some money in the process :) Just an entrepreneurial thought is all ;)
You might be able to slow it down by messing with the air bleed ports on the double acting piston. I wouldn't try and reduce air pressure into the tool though, it would take power away.
you should be able to slow down the scraper by reducing the air flowrate instead of the pressure. Reducing (either one) also reduces the runtime of the compressor, the strain on you hands, and improves control over the scraper
I've got a couple of vices to do and this will be very very helpful! Thank you for posting it. I am also in Aus. I may have mentioned it and I missed it but can you tell me where you got the carbide blade? Also, what blade shape did you settle on. From the vid it seems you went with a rounded front profile but what shape did you end up with for the side profile?
I can think of two ways to slow down the oscillations: increase the reciprocating mass (would make it harder to hold and control) or decrease the spring rate/force on both return springs. And lower air pressure (regulator), but im sure you tried this.
When you've got something in the dividing head with that much stickout, you really, really, want to be using a tailstock. Check the video footage as you cut the hex and drill for the screw, the flex is easily visible.
Brilliant idea and result. BTW Did you ever consider building your own pantograph? There are nice videos of these vintage machines them from Will Stelter and Inheritance Machining, however they always work by movement of the spindle, which makes them a small mill basically. I was wondering if one could make such piece, but with a moving table with the workpiece. Then it would be just an attatchment to a existing mill, and tracing the 3d printed parts would make it basically a CNC mill :P
I have never done anything like this before, but just a thought-would a dremel with carbide burring bit not work for this task? Or would that leave too much room for error?
I've been considering trying that just for fun. You mean you cut the grooves for the lapping compound like that? Problem is I only have one block of granite, guess I'd need three?
@@Serbokrat no, I flattened a rough saw cut piece of granite. I have a cheap Chinese surface plate as a master. I've been perfecting the finish with ceramic sand paper also on the oscillating tool.
To slow down the stroke speed, along with air flow reduction, you can add mass to the piston.
And add a bit of mass to the body of the machine at the same time, to maintain the body:tool mass ratio.
Simply adding a flow control *downstream* of his regulator should do the trick.
What would be better is if he could find a way to slow down the reverse stroke further than the punch stroke.
Tapping the air return hole and screwing in a restricter piece? Sort of like a grub screw with a hole drilled through the middle of it.
@@captianmorgan7627wow great idea!
Something to watch out for is HAV (Hand Arm Vibration) problems. Using vibrating tools should not be done for long periods of time, it is very tempting to keep going until the job is done. Take frequent breaks and take care.
How about fu*k off with: "be carefull you will die if you..." shits ?
He (and all of us watching this) is not working in industry, 8 hours a day, 7 days a week, but once in a year or a several months maybe.
Do not put industrial standards in hoby shop.
In coal mining decades ago using compressed air tools the injury it caused was called vibration white finger. Remember seeing it on the local news in the 70s in Wales
@@HT-io1eg yes.. for someone who worked full shift every day.
Not for hoby machinist using 100 times less power tool once in a year.
I'm realy sick of 'do not leave the key in to the chuck, it's gone kill you'' trols
Youre the type of guy to wear gloves, ear and eye protection while cutting the grass
I'm a welder/metal fab, some jobs are 7.5 hours/shift on a pneumatic grinder. There are guys in the shop that have been doing it 30 years. Not one case of white finger. Yes it's a very definite thing but he's not going to get it from this!
Mr Hacksaw decides he needs a power scraper.
Wild scenes.
Seriously though, this is an awesome project. One of your best.
and of course he uses a reciprocating saw to make it
And he cannibalized a power saw to do it lol
The frequency of such a free piston engine will be reduced with softer springs. More windings or a thinner wire could do this.
There are air reciprocating file tools that are fairly inexpensive and could possibly work as a scraper. The scraper blade would need to be small but I think it would work. Great build idea you have, really enjoyed the process and progress.
they are basically the same as this saw.
@@katelights with the air file you can control the speed without needing to add the air pressure regular, they also have a shorter stroke.
@@taranson3057 true, thats probably better than buy versions of powerscarpers. Diy better
You’re a great inspiration to most of us, I’ve always wanted to make a machine scraper and I really appreciate your have a go attitude. I was a toolmaker and involved with product development for 20years and it doesn’t happen overnight .
Another potential donor tool for this might be a needle scraper. This turned out great. Good concise video.
Maybe use a flow control valve to slow it down a bit. It doesn’t reduce the pressure. Just the flow rate of the air.
I'm no expert in air tools, but that sounds a lot like trying to limit the current through a resistor within changing the voltage. i.e., impossible (while it may have the same pressure with no load, surely it would decrease in pressure when loaded)
@@KingJellyfishII The analogy would be a variable Resistor while leaving the Pressure and Potential Volume on the Compressor side unchanged.
Unless he adds a flow regulator to the output of the machine, its impossible to regulate flow without effecting downstream pressure. Look up meter out vs meter in to understand more if you like, but you are on the right train of thought.
I’d advise you to educate yourself before saying stupid stuff like that again
@@geekswithfeet9137 I would advise you add to the discussion instead of being a dik.
Now who is a clever lad. Champion!!!!
This is a clever design, definitely worth trying. For those of us here in the US who think we might just go down to the nearest Home Depot and pick up a Ryobi AirWave reciprocating saw to duplicate this build I believe there may be some disappointment, as it seems to be a product that is local to Australia. Fortunately there are many other similar saws available here but be aware that it may take a little searching to find one from the same factory but perhaps badged with different retail label. Online auction sites might yield some results. Thanks for posting!
Ryobi is a hugely popular brand here in Aus and we have a lot of Ryobi branded tools that are probably specific to Australia, right down to how the product numbers are labelled.
Ryobi is available in Sweden, so it seems to be an actual brand. (With a lot of other stuff, the manufacturer will put any name on the procuct, that the buyer decides. I've done that with consumer electronic's.)
@@andersgrassman6583 I should clarify that Ryobi as a brand is widely available in the US but more prominently in cordless and corded electric tools.
Harbor Freight air saw for car body work. Cheap and if you screw it up it is only $25 for a new one. If you are a real weasel, you can turn it back in for a replacement by claiming it doesn't work.
Air tools are really great, cheap, robust etc. even with noisy compressor near me, it is real treat to use them :D
Agreed, and compressors don't have to be that bad - mine lives in a box with baffled vents and some hanging carpet on some rubber isolation feet that turns the 100db into a much more comfortable if still loud sound. Now with the workshop doors open its quiet enough to be lost in the usual daytime background noises of a city with only 10 to maybe 20 odd meters of distance, and close the workshop door I can use it at night without anybody but be being bothered. Though it is still loud enough you'd want ear protection to share the space with it, but so so much better.
I recently purchased a so called silent air compressor. Well it isn't silent but compared to the Ozito air compressor you have, and I had the difference is night and day. With my milling machine and lathe listening to how they cut is important and a 93dba air compressor doesn't help.
My quiet air compressor takes 60 seconds to full pressure and it's importantly quiet 😊
90dB is insanely loud, even non "quiet" compressors can be a lot lower than that.
Or just a much larger compressor. Then it will not run all the time. I took that route, and I have no regrets 👍
Get a second hand dentist's air compressor. They are extremely quiet. My mother had a dental practice and when the old compressor broke, the technician brought a regular air compressor temporarily. It was very loud for a dentist's office. They are similar to compressors in fridges
If you look at a real powerscraper the stroke goes perpendicular to the surface and the tool is angled down toward the surface. On your airsaw the stroke goes down to the surface at ~30* with a straight tool basicly picking away instead of scraping. I dident listen to the video you might already be aware just tought i mention it.
Its always nice to have something powered to atleast take most of the material off and just laying the finishing touches by hand.
It is slightly different but I found that it was still producing the scraper pattern I was looking for and producing the oil gulleys too. But there’s always room for further modifications
@@artisanmakes Try making the strokes sideways instead of pushing forward. Move the tool left/right.
I always thought you'd make another one but I didn't think it would be so soon
well done, there's no failed projects if you don't ever give up on the project
When I rebuilt my mill I did this and found that I used both a air and manual scrapper. Sometimes the manual one just is better but if you've got a lot to remove air or electrical can't be beat. Slow and steady is the key. Great video
Nice work. I tried to modify a reciprocating saw, but it left scratches. I think there was too much lateral scraper movement in mine. This project was a great idea and I may try this out. You may want to think about improving your carbide blade edge grinding by using a lower RPM and implementing a diamond wheel They really put a nice edge on the carbide. Cheers from Florida’s Space Coast.
Nice work mate, I think power scrapers are about to become a lot more common
i think using both the pneumatic and the handscraper is the way to go, do 95% with the machine and hone it in by hand, i recon you have much better control with hand scraping compared to the machine, especially on relatively small surfaces. but hey, it works, great job
Buys an air powered saw...still uses hacksaw to mod it...😆 love it!
I think we've all been there. Sometimes it's just easier to grab the hack saw than pulling out and dealing with a power tool.
Excellent work as usual. We shared this video on our homemade tool forum last week 😎
4:59 you take that back! XU1 is the best tool brand ever. Blows dewalt AND Milwaukee out of the water!
You should see about doing a small side project of making a sound dampening box for your compressor. LTT channel did something like some weeks ago where they constructed a box with foam inside. Airflow was able to move around the corners or baffles while fan noise was absorbed by the foam. This could make running your compressor much more bearable.
Genius! That worked out great!!
I love the new tools, but i love the look at hand scrapes more with the long single strokes~
Wow! Really interesting how it worked out! 😮
Fantastic work, dude!!!
Stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
I like the idea of using a pneumatic tool. They’re generally lighter. It does seem to run really fast compared to a biax. My Milwaukee power scraper is variable speed but I do find it quite heavy and tiring to operate. Great job.
Another super project...I really love your channel...so many great ideas
You're a legend mate!
Now there's another tool I want... But it should help me get my old high school Hercus lathe working properly 😊
My boi. He pulled it off .
So proud
AGAIN!!!!
Well, i think You didn't consider one important thing. As for movement geometry Your design just rams straight into scraped item like a hammer, not sliding the carbide. Like the Biax, You have to replicate a slide movement with carbide being at angle, not straight. So to scrape with this air saw, You have to hold it flat to scraping area and set the carbide at an angle like 15-30 degrees. The movement has to be dead flat to the surface that youre scraping.
100%
Yeah has to cut, not hammer.
Yeah I know but it was scraping and it was getting the right pattern and taking material off so I was happy to leave it there
@@artisanmakes It seems like all you'd need to do is make a head where the blade is angled down. Abom79 has a great video on scraping basics and there's a biax in operation in the video. It really looks like you're 90% there. That and a needle valve to control the speed.
Greetings from across the pond...Actually looked like it works great. using a dremmel to put in grooves would overcome the small places for oil problem. its very fine but that looks lke it wont affect it....fantastic idea
Fantastic result!
This video finally made me understand why scraping is a thing.
Nicely done!
When I saw the title, I immediately thought of a needle scaler. Same principle. Sweet project.
I had the impression needle scalers use a sort of rotary ramp to push each needle out after the other. No?
Good work and design.
great project, great results.
nice work man!!! great job!!!!
to slow it down a bit you could try adding a needle valve throttle to the muffler, that way control is very precise and the tool doesnt suffer from power loss or slip stick. thats how its usually done on pneumatic cylinder
A thing that I can recommend: hand lapping.
It is even cheaper than scraping, you only need the grit, which you can get for about 20 bucks. Your lapping plates are done from some scrap, and you can even lap your own surface plate. I did, and got it to 1.2um total deviation. Your tools and workpieces can be lapped too. Easy and cheap processy, requires little practice. Or rather you'll get all the practice you need while lapping your plates.
Top channel 😊
Brilliant tool making!! Take care!
Well done!
Bravo! Looking forward to hearing how it works in the long term.
That is an awesome build. I'm betting the the lower weight of this tool makes it much easier to use and improves accuracy.
There are air hammers/ impact chisels that have more power and build exactly for this kind of application. Those are heavier and have more power so can cut deeper and with more confidence. This feels more like sanding ( finishing scraping ) and not removing a lot of material. Nice video though 👍🏻
Well done. 👍
Excellent work.
Wondering how the scraper blades are holding up.
I looked at them at the "red hammer" store and they are described as carbide tipped - maybe that's the long edges only.
Appreciate your views given experience with hand scraping using same items
A few years ago, someone else did this, with the angle grinder, but I really didn’t like what he did. I’m curious as what your solution will be. I scrape annually, but I avoid it whenever I can. This seems to work well enough, but it’s bouncing around too much. I do think that bothe the stroke and speed should be moderated. Being that this seems a light lighter than the occasional power scrapers I’ve used in the past, that’s one of the reasons. There’s not enough mass to keep it from jumping.Hardened surfaces aren’t scraped, just ground. But people also have to understand that often scraping, even when done correctly, doesn’t add to the accuracy of the equipment.
Also, you can make attachments like.. a needler for paint/scale removal. Of course, you could use it as a saw.. you know.. for those 6" chunks of steel you like using a hacksaw on. ;)
I was thinking along the same thing as you for changing the stroke length however after giving it more thought I came to another possibility that would give you easy stroke length adjustability:
Could you not mount a locked post and use a see-saw or teeter-totter lever with one side attached to the double acting piston and then adjust either the point or the length of the lever after the locked center post.
This gives you the advantage of easy access to relocating the 2nd point as well as offsetting it at a lower angle of attack while keeping your hand and the tool body up away from the surface. This also keeps the original rpm lower than by artificially forcing the dual acting piston to become smaller with spacers which would increase the rpm.
Hi great video just thought I'd drop a comment my dad was an engineer in a machine tool manufacturer who built huge planes the cast iron beds were scraped to allow for a bed of oil that the plane head ran on these cast iron surfaces that could be several meters long were hand scraped in a circular motion to allow for a small indentation and per 1 inch square there had to be 12 semi circles or the area had to be reworked !
Try looking at a "Turbo lap" or a "Diprofil" it's what i use in the toolmaking industry.
They rely on small high frequency movements which are much more useful than smashing the life out of it with a jackhammer.
They're designed for polishing but I've made scraper attachments and it works well.
I've never found flat square front scrapers to work well as they dig in the harder you push,
I grind up old triangle files and riffler files and pull the scraper towards by hand.
I concur with others regarding the need to make the scraper blade off-axis to the reciprocation. An inclined blade mount will also be a bit stronger than the one you've used. I know next to nothing about air tools, but I wonder if decreasing the size of the exhaust port would enable you to slow it down, perhaps with a needle valve? You'd need to be careful with your inlet pressure though! I also wonder whether rubber o-rings would be a better material for the spacer. I'd probably glue some thick neoprene to the body too, to give a bit more control and to reduce the amount of vibration your body is subjected too.
As rudimentary as this tool is, I think it has promise! I might not want to use for the final passes, but it looks like it could do well for roughing in. You definitely need to make yourself a slow carbide grinder and jig to get your blade geometry right. The cutting edge should be precise and polished, with just the right radius and cutting angle for the material you are scraping. I'm in New Zealand, a remote land that apparently no Biax ever reached, so I'm really interested to see what enhancements you can come up with, so that I can shamelessly copy!
if you reduced the flex in the tongue of the holder by replacing the piece of flatbar with a machined block it would probably remove more stock per stroke and allow you to press down more firmly if you wnated to. I also think the unsupported tongue will shear off after a few hours if left hanging as it is.
Consider turning your scraper blade retention plate into a retention block that mates against the mandrel perpendicular face. That will help prevent flex fatigue and eventual failure.
7:50 Forbidden rice noodles 😋
It seems like it reciprocates less in length and is more accurate, but I would have thought you'd want a longer stroke, closer to what you'd get by hand but not quite that long or inaccurate, in order to have more dips and troughs in between strokes when hatching at different angles. The longer the stroke, the more widely separated each groove is if you move it from left to right at the same speed, and I would think it would dig slightly deeper which would also help with the whole oil thing. However, i am very impressed with your design as always. Cheap, effective, and relatively easy. Definitely on brand lol. It takes a lot of engineering to figure this stuff out though so youre helping a lot of people with these videos
Something I have done is put my air compressor out side in a simple enclosure to keep the elements off of it. I love air tools but hate the compressor noise and in a small shop like yours the noise must be deafening.
Might retain more moisture & contaminants in the tank unless you added additional filtration to the intake. Also out of sight we tend to forget to drain the tank so replace barb drain valve most portables have with an elbow & flexible line. Run to an easily accessible ball valve to blow off as needed or use an auto drain if it's being used regularly.
I don't use mine much, because it is loud and normal tools mostly work.
I saw plans somewhere where someone made a simply box frame from foam board, with 2 layers about 1" apart at some angle which helped reflect/cancel a lot of the noise.
@@boots7859 Problem with a tight enclosure is heat generation, hotter the air the more moisture it can hold. When the air cools in the tank the moisture is released thus more water to drain. A small factory wanted to cut down the noise so surrounded compressor with Pink bats - cooked the compressor due to no air flow. Ever touched the hard pipe from compressor to tank - scolding hot.
Try less stiff blade (little longer and thinner), in original Biax it mounted in rubber cushing, rubber is quite stiff but it absorbs shock and allow blade to "slide" over surface
you might consider making a longer piece of spring steel at the front, then adding your blade to give you a bit of flexibility and better control. just to get rid of that jackhammer feeling! so you can flake out rather than pound them out, and control the speed a will help a lot.
I like this version much better. Maybe with less pressure you have a slower scraper?
Thanks 👍💪✌
"That'll do pig. That'll do."
Nice one.
Cool tool!
Instead of lowering your air pressure, drill and tap a set screw/bolt into the handle where the 'button' is after bending it out to reduce how much you are deflecting the other end of the 'button'. Pretty sure there is a better term than button, but cant think of it.
Would probably shoot for some really fine thread because 1-the handle isnt particularly thick (Unless you wanna make a thicker one), and 2, would allow you to fine control the speed. Looked like part of your issue for the test run was hitting the carbide in and getting 10 strokes against the metal before you can react. might need tighter tolerances, but you already sanded the shaft into compliance, so not much to really shoot for there.
Another thing might be a more rigid system to hold the scraper, but that would be a solution if you were flattening dozens of surfaces a day, not a couple per decade.
Nice work!
There are more materials that can be scraped. The UA-cam channel, "An Engineers Findings" discusses in a video or two scraping a approx. 1 meter long straight edge made from welded pieces of steel and how the rake angle of the carbide needs to be a +3° rather than a -3° for cast iron ( I may not remembering the correct rake angles, but it was a negative rake angle for case iron and positive for steel.) Also, I scraped one flange of a piece of stainless steel channel as part of making a precision machinist level.
You know the adapter is simple enough that it could be mass produced and likely sold as a seperate adapter for these reciprocating saws or made in to an entirely seperate pneumatic tool with slightly different parts like softer springs to reduce vibration in your hands as someone else had said. If you wanted a passive income stream I'd patent this adapter and contact TTI or Ryobi to talk aboout production. If power scrapers are becoming more popular thanks to the internet, there's a chance they're so expensive due to either complex manufatury or because they're still such a specialised tool that their only use case is precision industry, but a simpler design may bring them to a consumer market. I'd be curious to compare your design to an official power scraper to see the viability of a patent.
theres a engraver called "Vibrograv" (probably only a old german thing) but its a recipicating needle for marking parts with text.
its actually horrible as a tool but how it works might be interessting
its literally just using a E I core transformer where the laminated I part is hinged on one side and gets attracted to the E part every cycle and pushed back by a spring
at the other end of the I beam theres a rod connecting it to the linear head containing the needle.
i think thats a good point to start for a electric scraper its range of motion is quite short and it runs at 50 or 100 strokes per second
You've got what you need now however, a pneumatic needle scaler might also be a good starting point?
I would think for roughing passes, the longer stroke length would be preferred.
hey, you need something that flexxes up front . i spoke to the European Biax Specialist ( kingway Consultant ) a while ago, and you realy want some piece up front that has flex. the biax scrapers use 2,5mm -3mm thick steel that is tempered to a springiness . that allows to even out inbalances. i am 100% sure if u buy one of the 20mm wide biax Long scraper blade you will get much better results
That was going to be the back up design of the directly mounted carbide didn’t work. I think it may be better but I’m still getting great results with the direct mount. Cheers
@@artisanmakes if u want to get a better result, i highly recommend you to make a grinding jig and u need a smaller blade width ( 15 mm for example with a 40mm radius, and if u want to hit more PPi smaller 10mm or 15mm width, 20mm radius on the blade.most people scrapoe with way to big radius and width, and scrape not deep enough. by using smaller radii it would alow you to split the points accurate( when u examine your highspots, you should actualy only split the spot that you blued, not remove the whole thing " ) . what you are currently doing is that you constaly remove almost your whole points ( they are still way to big because perhaps your radius is to wide ! ).that way you get changing results and you will not be able to get consistency between the blueing. and you can only hit those points by going over them with smaller radius and blade diameter.i didnt understood , why my pattern stalled at a certain point , until i reached out to a Kingway scraping consultant and he explained me very well that if i dont use smaller radius, the scraping pattern will remain coarse, and you will not be able to get good ppi. also try to thin out your prussian blue more. to me you had a pretty thick layer. i use something called Canode Blue, i can tell from first hand experience it works way better than regular Artisan paint. but i can understand...u have to take whats available.
Great conversion.
I noticed that you only had a 24 litre tank on your compressor. How well did it keep up with air consumption?
I ask because I have a similar sized compressor myself which is constantly cycling even with a simple air brush.
Was thinking about wall mounting a compressor on the outside of my shop and using a quick connect bulk head to go through the wall so I don't have to listen to a loud compressor. Does this seem like a good idea?
The new power hack saw 😂
Great design.👍 In scraping, I always wonder how the material is removed from the base of such a vice, it can be obtained its flatness but how do we know that we will do it symmetrically and after installation on the table of a milling machine, the vice database and its jaws will not be flat and diagonally relative to the processing plane?
Super projekt. W skrobaniu zastanawia mnie zawsze jedna sprawa, jak usuwa się materiał z podstawy takiego imadła to można uzyskać jego płaskość ale skąd wiemy że zrobimy to symetrycznie i po zamontowaniu na stole frezarki baza imadła i jego szczęki nie będą płaskie a po skosie względem płaszczyzny obróbki?
That’s the difficult bit. Making it parallel. You crape the bottom. Scrape the top. Then you use an indicator and 123 blocks to see if the top is level. If it isn’t you scrape the high end down to make it level and flat with the low. It’s a lot of work
First off, love all your videos and work you do!
An idea:
You could start a side business selling mod kits to permit home machinists to convert the Ryobi to become a make-shift power scraper. There is alot of home enthusiast machinist who would buy it. I think you could easily sell over 100 kits to be honest.
If you had a CNC shop help you mass produce the conversion parts based off say your CAD/ technical drawing your, and you sold them as a kit... its a business endeavor/ product you'd be offering based off your design.
Its hard to find a good value power scraper for the home shop (here in the UK, the cheapest ones are easily over 1,000 GBP) . So you'd be solving a problem many of us have in the home shop if you did decide to offer say a conversion kit, and rightfully so, you'd make some money in the process :)
Just an entrepreneurial thought is all ;)
Pneumatic? Nice!
You might be able to slow it down by messing with the air bleed ports on the double acting piston. I wouldn't try and reduce air pressure into the tool though, it would take power away.
I feel like an inline air regulator on the back of your air saw would let you gain more control and probably better results by slowing the saw a touch
Maybe some stiffer springs to slow down the oscillation speed?
you should be able to slow down the scraper by reducing the air flowrate instead of the pressure. Reducing (either one) also reduces the runtime of the compressor, the strain on you hands, and improves control over the scraper
Hmm I wonder if my power carver for woodworking would work with a carbide tip… going to have to try this.
I've got a couple of vices to do and this will be very very helpful! Thank you for posting it. I am also in Aus. I may have mentioned it and I missed it but can you tell me where you got the carbide blade? Also, what blade shape did you settle on. From the vid it seems you went with a rounded front profile but what shape did you end up with for the side profile?
That yellow bolt above triger is for reducing air flow thus speed of reciprocation saw,
I can think of two ways to slow down the oscillations: increase the reciprocating mass (would make it harder to hold and control) or decrease the spring rate/force on both return springs. And lower air pressure (regulator), but im sure you tried this.
You should look into an Air hammer.
When you've got something in the dividing head with that much stickout, you really, really, want to be using a tailstock. Check the video footage as you cut the hex and drill for the screw, the flex is easily visible.
I know I could could see that. I needed two passes because the taper was visible to the eye
Fastest hacksaw in the West!
Brilliant idea and result. BTW Did you ever consider building your own pantograph? There are nice videos of these vintage machines them from Will Stelter and Inheritance Machining, however they always work by movement of the spindle, which makes them a small mill basically. I was wondering if one could make such piece, but with a moving table with the workpiece. Then it would be just an attatchment to a existing mill, and tracing the 3d printed parts would make it basically a CNC mill :P
I have never done anything like this before, but just a thought-would a dremel with carbide burring bit not work for this task? Or would that leave too much room for error?
Will we ever see this air saw used instead of the hacksaw?
Good Stuff
you have inspired me to make a milling table for my mini lathe. it on my you tube channel if you want to see it.. nice build on the scraper too.
Remember to oil the airtool at least every day of use
This could be made in a power file, too- couldn´t it? Your idea seems very versatile- this could be the next big home gamer thing. Kind Regards
I use the BIAX scrapers at work and i would say that your tool is a bit too fast. You will probably get a better result, if slow it down a bit.
If you want to slow the cycle rate down play with the hose sizes and only need small sections to limit the flow not a pressure regulator
I made a pretty decent granite lapping plate using an oscillating tool with a diamond grout removal blade.
I thought about that last time, they cut so slow and are pretty controllable.
I've been considering trying that just for fun. You mean you cut the grooves for the lapping compound like that? Problem is I only have one block of granite, guess I'd need three?
@@Serbokrat no, I flattened a rough saw cut piece of granite. I have a cheap Chinese surface plate as a master. I've been perfecting the finish with ceramic sand paper also on the oscillating tool.
@@garyseverson3094 oh you actually flattened with it, like by hand or with some jig/mount? That's brilliant.
@@garyseverson3094 oh you actually flattened with it, like by hand or with some jig/mount? That's brilliant.
I did the same with an air file.