I'm not realy a starcraft player, but i like watching it - that being said, isn't the solution just mass liberators? They have AoE anti-air, so if you get enough of them you can clear swats of Overseers, and if you just siege them up in front of your base, the moment lurkers decive to step forward means one scan and half of zerg army is gone
@@VeneficusCubes The corruptor switch is always a possibility when you see the opponent shift into a heavy air-focused army composition. They are zergs go to answer for these scenarios, and if the opponent decides to go back to ground based the corruptors can be morphed into brood lords and not be useless. Also thats why there are a couple of vipers in the army, they can always go fishing with the liberators and the hydras will deal with them. They aren't just a counter to medivacs and tanks but to sieged liberators as well ;)
Funny how Zerg's most oppressive strats that keep getting nerfed into oblivion are free units. Infested terrans: free units with guns Locusts: free units that bite and soon Changelings: free units that have no attack and 1 health
It honestly fits the Zerg aesthetic pretty well “You’re units may be stronger, better equipped and more cost efficient, but I have 1,000 units on the way with 1,000 more right behind them”
@@levilemming4262 "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan
Terran: "Mass Overlord Lurker is abusing a mechanic of the game to prevent Terran from playing the way the game was meant to be played" "Yeah well Zerg wouldn't have to do stupid stuff like that if Ghosts weren't a one solution beats all in TvZ"
@@cousinpatsey2471 no, not really. Since when are we ok with free units winning the game? Back to GGlord/winfestor era? Or swarm hosts? Ghosts could always be countered, in fact, they have been nerfed many times already and Terrans got better despite that. This shit though - a free unit that spawns free units, Rogue was getting even 100 drones and still having so many lurkers so hard to deal with that Gumiho even with 130 army supply could do nothing
@@geuros”free units winning the game”… like how Clem or byun would build 10+ orbitals and have nigh infinite scans (aka map hacks) to reveal the whole map constantly… allowing you to see literally any “counter” that Zerg or Protoss could have to said ghosts.
@@chloesmith4065I feel like too Terrans are gonna figure this out pretty quick. But I think the main way to counter this is to just not let the Zerg build that bank lol. If rouge is dropping 40 overseers of bank to harass, you probably should have killed them 5 mins ago
I was thinking the same thing back when Artosis was arguing with the other casters at the World Cup. Everyone seems to have forgotten just how scary Rogue was as a player back in his heyday.
Rogue has become my favorite player to watch. I still have the most awe for Serral. But Rogue makes it seem like he understands zerg on a different conceptual level as a species, and does a bunch of creative stuff with it. So fun to watch.
Despite having watched StarCraft for years, I only just noticed the combat shield was literally a shield on the arm lol. I thought it was a bigger pauldron or something lol.
controlling ravens takes 10 million apm which is why they never build one unless they are fighting another honorable terran, in which case they suddenly develop 100 trillion apm and make them in droves
@@BanAaron yep that's how playing toss feels. You have to learn to tab and spell cast at the same time or have like 5 different hot keys for spell casters.
@@tubesism it's hard. I get lost in both methods. You have to pay attention to which spell caster you're on since it changes. I try to make sure I'm on a specific spell caster before a fight that way I get the spells out and then jump to the next one.
I've always figured Zerg should threaten surprise Nydus more, the threat of units teleporting all across your territory. It's HP independent of supply, and yet still provides a threat big enough to force a response.
Rouge new strategy "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan
"Zerg were not enthusiastic" :)))) Man, your comments are just brilliant. I must admit, when I started to watch your videos I was: "dafuq is this?", but now I really enjoy them. Keep them up!
Is it just me or is this video having so far over 10% of the views dropping a like not a super high views:likes ratio compared to most other channels? This says to me that Jimmy there is doing such a good job that If he doesn't get a raise me thinks he should walk! For far too long Jimmy has singlehandedly carried this channel on his shoulders without enough recognition!
This might seem cumbersome, but I think building a couple of planetaries near your infrastructure in the pure late game might help mitigate the Nydus spam. That way you can you can deny the zerg from spawning in the dead center of your base without repercussions while also reducing the amount of units you need to bring back to defend every.
@@theculturedgentleman3699 nydus is 2x2 no? you can be wasteful as you build up your base.. also the mass nydus strat is only during the late game, when both sides are banking up thousands. If you make it impossible to place the nydus at least in the main, you don't have to drag your army ALL the way back
Why does Zerg get Brenda and Susan and the Hatch Owners Association and a knitting circle whilst Protoss and Terran are characterless? But who is “Billy!” ?
Marines/maurauders could probably get charachters, but a lot of the protoss are faceless and souless looking. And robotic/flying terran units have the same problem. Queens have a lot of personality by comparison in their animations, restrictions, and complexity.
Winter is pretending to be mind-controlled by the Zerg, and the other races don't have mind control, so the joke doesn't really translate. With that said it could be fun if he came up with a similar schtick for the other races.
@@gummywurmgaming9147 I get that but was thinking of something that you open close when you "leave home" :D . Anyway I'm still waiting to see someone "terran" counter this tactic. Looks sick
I never understaood why Zergs didn't built big overseers armies like Rogue is doing here (because its a free pop that can protect valuable zergs air units and can be build for very few ressources; and are perfect in good number to contest ghost supremacy). Maybe there is a good reason and if it is, i hope a zerg player would tell me.
Honestly though, how do you beat the overseer-changeling-lurker-nidus strat? Marines lose, thors will waste hits on seers, tanks have no chance. Maybe banshee/raven/firebats?
What do you think Blizzard can do to balance this? I think making widow mines recognize the changelings automatically would be nice. That way it will be balance so you have to invest on the widow mines to stop them from entering your base. Another posible solution, make changeling duration energy-linked, so you can emp them and kill them in mass
why not reduce the time of the infested terran of being alive or somehow prevent it from receiving orders (like, it's an allied piece?). Make it like the Raven's auto-turret or something?
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't sieging up one liberator at each base to kill any nydas that comes up be pretty apm intensive and quick?
Rouge went to military service and learnt about mass airborne tactics and implemented it in StarCraft 2 as zerg.
Air superiority with non lethal flyers ecksdee
I'm not realy a starcraft player, but i like watching it - that being said, isn't the solution just mass liberators? They have AoE anti-air, so if you get enough of them you can clear swats of Overseers, and if you just siege them up in front of your base, the moment lurkers decive to step forward means one scan and half of zerg army is gone
@@VeneficusCubes The corruptor switch is always a possibility when you see the opponent shift into a heavy air-focused army composition. They are zergs go to answer for these scenarios, and if the opponent decides to go back to ground based the corruptors can be morphed into brood lords and not be useless.
Also thats why there are a couple of vipers in the army, they can always go fishing with the liberators and the hydras will deal with them. They aren't just a counter to medivacs and tanks but to sieged liberators as well ;)
Who knew the skills they learn in the military could translate into a warfare game. 😅
@@VeneficusCubesthe problem with that is that it can't attack ground effectively by themselves
They are support units
As someone said: "When I'm winning, but I don't want to, I make an ultra cavern".
Idra
Meteorologist: Expect zergulonimbus clouds later in the afternoon...
Bloody with a chance or corrosive bile... 😅😂
🤣🤣😂😭😭
Large amounts of tar creatures expected to appear from this event.
18:20 one changeling got his hands on a ghosts rifle and asked himself what does this big red buttom does?
Funny how Zerg's most oppressive strats that keep getting nerfed into oblivion are free units.
Infested terrans: free units with guns
Locusts: free units that bite
and soon Changelings: free units that have no attack and 1 health
Remember when Infested Terrans were Overseer units? Never saw Overseers massed back then.. but holy fk it would have been magnificent.
It honestly fits the Zerg aesthetic pretty well
“You’re units may be stronger, better equipped and more cost efficient, but I have 1,000 units on the way with 1,000 more right behind them”
@@levilemming4262 "You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan
18:00 Nobody expects an intentional self nuke
Nor the instant nukespoiler
"Dont read the comments" I was just gonna like the video as was suggested.
"I will rule this sector or see it burnt to ashes around me."
Exterminatus is now also a thing in star craft
And in the dark days of ghosts destroying everything Zerg can field... Rogue returned to us! Let's go!!!
Apparently ghosts don't destroy everything.
@@Stardash81 Well, as Ghosts deal Damage and everything in the game has Hit Points. It does in fact appear that Ghosts can destroy everything.🫡
@@quarantinezone2844Target neutralized.
@@quarantinezone2844 Wow you actually managed to find an imbalance. Well done.
@@Stardash81 When did anyone say anything about imbalance, madame?
i feel like were witnessing history rn. rogue has hit every top terran w/ a big stinky bag of crap and a calling card that only says: "your move"
Terran: "Mass Overlord Lurker is abusing a mechanic of the game to prevent Terran from playing the way the game was meant to be played"
"Yeah well Zerg wouldn't have to do stupid stuff like that if Ghosts weren't a one solution beats all in TvZ"
just play better
@@AronKoch30 Lol, mass overseer/lurker IS playing better now 😂😂😂
@@AronKoch30 tell that to Terrans. Rogue's play is beating them fair.
@@cousinpatsey2471 no, not really. Since when are we ok with free units winning the game? Back to GGlord/winfestor era? Or swarm hosts? Ghosts could always be countered, in fact, they have been nerfed many times already and Terrans got better despite that. This shit though - a free unit that spawns free units, Rogue was getting even 100 drones and still having so many lurkers so hard to deal with that Gumiho even with 130 army supply could do nothing
@@geuros”free units winning the game”… like how Clem or byun would build 10+ orbitals and have nigh infinite scans (aka map hacks) to reveal the whole map constantly… allowing you to see literally any “counter” that Zerg or Protoss could have to said ghosts.
I assume Rogue is on his way to become the new Dark of this channel, and im all for it, more Dark!
Rouge has been shaking up the ZvT scene, but i do wonder how he is faring against protoss.
Not great on ladder, but maybe he's trying to figure out new strats or maybe he doesn't focus on it
lost to harstem ☠️
I get kinda sad when he says he has nothing else to do with his life, kinda glad he didn't say it this time. 😔
He's fine haha I bet he'll feel amazing the more permanent that sentiment is.
I cannot believe he didn't say it! I'm sad he didn't say it. I don't know what to do with my life if winter does know what to do with his :(
Terran command: ALERT ALERT....
We have a rogue zerg on the loose
Hide your add ons and lock ur supply depots
I think Artosis is right. Rogue is the king of SC2. Comes back from military service and just blows up the ZvT meta.
I feel like only rogue would come up with this lol
right but then loses to mediocre protoss
@@chloesmith4065I feel like too Terrans are gonna figure this out pretty quick. But I think the main way to counter this is to just not let the Zerg build that bank lol. If rouge is dropping 40 overseers of bank to harass, you probably should have killed them 5 mins ago
He only transitions when ge has stabilized and have about 5 bases
I was thinking the same thing back when Artosis was arguing with the other casters at the World Cup. Everyone seems to have forgotten just how scary Rogue was as a player back in his heyday.
15:43 Gumiho mowing down one of his ghosts is kinda funny
Rogue has become my favorite player to watch. I still have the most awe for Serral. But Rogue makes it seem like he understands zerg on a different conceptual level as a species, and does a bunch of creative stuff with it. So fun to watch.
Yea Rogue is getting to Darks level of "oh he's playing? I gotta watch this" levels, at least for TvZ
"This entire game is dangerous. You know how many people have heart attacks thinking about hitting ranked?"
too real
I'm waiting for you on ranked 😈
Rouge has gone full evil genius.... I approve go on.
Despite having watched StarCraft for years, I only just noticed the combat shield was literally a shield on the arm lol. I thought it was a bigger pauldron or something lol.
21:21 - love this meta analysis, always enjoy you breaking down what's changing and why
thanks Winter 💖
Rogue will dominate the Terran because of their hubris of not building even a single goddamned raven to detect those effing lurkers.
controlling ravens takes 10 million apm which is why they never build one unless they are fighting another honorable terran, in which case they suddenly develop 100 trillion apm and make them in droves
@@madumlao Now they know how it feels to control any zerg spell caster lmao
@@BanAaron yep that's how playing toss feels. You have to learn to tab and spell cast at the same time or have like 5 different hot keys for spell casters.
I should try the tab method. I always lose myself in the hotkeys 😵💫
@@tubesism it's hard. I get lost in both methods. You have to pay attention to which spell caster you're on since it changes. I try to make sure I'm on a specific spell caster before a fight that way I get the spells out and then jump to the next one.
This nidus changling lurker composition is brutal. Although terran might need to adjust where they build stuff since they lock themselves out.
2:23 "woach woiin..on the way"
adorable.
Hey boys! Uh my shield, yeah left that over noooooo
Winter YOU broke sc2. Commentary. You're the best.
GJ Rogue .Break this game into fetal position. break it. I love terran tears.
It would be wild if Medivacs could pick up Changelings.
I kind of feel Rogue let his homeboy play the 2nd game while he ate a sandwich or something.
the King has returned for his crown.
I've always figured Zerg should threaten surprise Nydus more, the threat of units teleporting all across your territory. It's HP independent of supply, and yet still provides a threat big enough to force a response.
I can't believe that the most OP unit from zerg is marines (changelings)
"and.. ill probably do it anyways." gets me every time.
Mass liberator maybe, they deal splash damage in the air and after dealing with the overseer they can deal with the lurkers.
Rouge new strategy
"You see, killbots have a preset kill limit. Knowing their weakness, I sent wave after wave of my own men at them until they reached their limit and shut down." - Captain Zap Brannigan
That was like watching Tremors evolve and destroy
"Zerg were not enthusiastic" :))))
Man, your comments are just brilliant.
I must admit, when I started to watch your videos I was: "dafuq is this?", but now I really enjoy them. Keep them up!
Fun fact: a flock of Overseers is called an Eyesore.
Is it just me or is this video having so far over 10% of the views dropping a like not a super high views:likes ratio compared to most other channels? This says to me that Jimmy there is doing such a good job that If he doesn't get a raise me thinks he should walk! For far too long Jimmy has singlehandedly carried this channel on his shoulders without enough recognition!
This might seem cumbersome, but I think building a couple of planetaries near your infrastructure in the pure late game might help mitigate the Nydus spam.
That way you can you can deny the zerg from spawning in the dead center of your base without repercussions while also reducing the amount of units you need to bring back to defend every.
Like smashed!
omg i didn't even realize until mid point the overseers are for blocking vision. I was laughing so hard during the game 1 beatdown.
answer? fill up your base with buildings so they don't have a spot for the nydus x)
And then Banelings go BRR and you lose like 150 supply instantly 😭😭
@@theculturedgentleman3699 nydus is 2x2 no? you can be wasteful as you build up your base.. also the mass nydus strat is only during the late game, when both sides are banking up thousands. If you make it impossible to place the nydus at least in the main, you don't have to drag your army ALL the way back
Thank the starcraft 2 gods for zerg vs terran.
Winter: “Rogue is going to get Zerg nerfed again.”
*Patch notes Terran gets buffed*
Winter: 😮
I like to use the worm to give my drones a way to run home or transfer to another base fast and in secret.
Rogue really making the Zerg-balance-complaint department remember that Zerg has been dominating world championships for 10 years now
This is the meta shake up I've been wanting lol
Why does Zerg get Brenda and Susan and the Hatch Owners Association and a knitting circle whilst Protoss and Terran are characterless?
But who is “Billy!” ?
Marines/maurauders could probably get charachters, but a lot of the protoss are faceless and souless looking. And robotic/flying terran units have the same problem. Queens have a lot of personality by comparison in their animations, restrictions, and complexity.
He has a name for the accidental late game uh..........."goliath replacement" I can't think of the name of the unit.
Winter is pretending to be mind-controlled by the Zerg, and the other races don't have mind control, so the joke doesn't really translate.
With that said it could be fun if he came up with a similar schtick for the other races.
The knitting circle 😂😂😂😂
Love your casts brother.
Hell yea my day is about to get a lot better
thank god we have another genius zerg to rally behind while the rest of them leave for the millitary
My day is now a little bit better. don’t stop! Can’t stop 👑
Id like to see a sc2 hardcore mode where it has all the best versions of each unit in it. All the OP ones, that would be wild.
Harstem played uthermql on a mod like this recently, check the vid to see if it’s what you are looking for
Would it make sense to have a small kill squad of hyperflight cloaked Banshees, like 3 or so, to handle the Nydus worms and tangle with the Lurkers?
Rogue must have been experimenting with mass contanimation, I wanna see it so badly!
Terrans just need to build depo wall further to keep the changelings out. So easy.
I think a good compromise is that each changeling had to be individually casted
Rogue is playing amazing. The mass changeling was insane.
Thank You
Om nom nom
Missed opportunity for a GuMiNOOO joke
man every rogue game lately has been so fun and refreshing to watch !!!
This new zvt strat is insane im loving it
Wouldn't building up a supply depot wall for these mass changelings do the job? At least a wall to protect the main base?
There usually is a wall, that's wide open so supporting units can get out of their production area lol
@@gummywurmgaming9147 I get that but was thinking of something that you open close when you "leave home" :D . Anyway I'm still waiting to see someone "terran" counter this tactic. Looks sick
Rogue is the new final boss
I wasn't wrong! This shit rocks.
Infester getting its balls cut off incrementally😂
Not a MaxPax video but I’m also enjoying Rogue vs. any Terran
What about lowered supply depots to cover your main groundarea?
This was one of coolest games I've watched in a long time!
Mm. Arthosis must be feeling so smug now
I never understaood why Zergs didn't built big overseers armies like Rogue is doing here (because its a free pop that can protect valuable zergs air units and can be build for very few ressources; and are perfect in good number to contest ghost supremacy).
Maybe there is a good reason and if it is, i hope a zerg player would tell me.
hey winter, do you have any collection of aggro game casts? short games where people fight against earlygame
Honestly though, how do you beat the overseer-changeling-lurker-nidus strat? Marines lose, thors will waste hits on seers, tanks have no chance. Maybe banshee/raven/firebats?
I was thinking just a bunch of liberators in their splash air attack to mush the clump of overseers then siege to blast lurkers
Rogue learned new tricks in the army 😂
TheWarOwl's video showcases the earliest of this strat in sc2 that i can find. Maybe not strat, but the general idea.
click 37:58 to have fun!
I wonder why Rogue doesn't use some of those overseers to contaminate all the production?
this reminds me of air mech arena, is it similar?
im new to this but saw a picture on my art book and thought it looked cool
What do you think Blizzard can do to balance this? I think making widow mines recognize the changelings automatically would be nice. That way it will be balance so you have to invest on the widow mines to stop them from entering your base. Another posible solution, make changeling duration energy-linked, so you can emp them and kill them in mass
Good idea, but it won't stop 8-10 of them
why not reduce the time of the infested terran of being alive or somehow prevent it from receiving orders (like, it's an allied piece?). Make it like the Raven's auto-turret or something?
Biblically accurate overseers
Oh winter... if only you had known how true that video title was going to be...
Someone please correct me if I'm wrong but wouldn't sieging up one liberator at each base to kill any nydas that comes up be pretty apm intensive and quick?
*Unintensive
*Unintensive
In the series vs clem, when clem did marine/mine/medivac harass, he won. There's still no real counter to that.
Who are these 'Billy' and 'Susan' people you often refer to?
I can't wait for rogue to be the one who gets overseers nerfed
maybe terrans can just sim city to make placing nydus’s physically impossible
My favorite game until now
I don't have heart attacks thinking about ranked ;]
I never think about playing ranked ;]
Jimmy Brought me Here.
this jimmy guy always on point wth the count, is he going to appear on October 31?
Rogue on his way to somehow make Changelings get nerfed
Honestly I love the creativity of Rogue here but this can't be the long term solution to Ghosts xD
best spell caster is the overseer
You can right click changelings? What the hell...
I love the Karen Queens! And now we have the Fake Terrans!
I don't understand why the pros don't just put 2 tanks in seige in their main?
Ah yes... Drugs and guns may not win everytime .... But it is fun everytime.
I love rogue dude
Winter, please give us some SC1 vs SC2, it has been a while
is this a reupload?