Mutable instruments Clouds VS Clouds Clone (in this case Monsoon by BigTMusicLtd)
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- I always had the feeling that a Clouds clone didn't sound as good as the original Clouds. Was this just a placebo effect? Or is this real, because I can imagine that the used parts aren't the same. So I compared the two of them. Hope this info is useful!
Jak Plugg here, I designed quite a lot of the clones. most of the sound comes from the processor, which is the exact same thing. most of the components are exactly the same, the only difference is the arrangement of them on the circuit board, care was taken to avoid noise, even using separate analog and digital grounds in some cases, which the originals did not do. the reason the modules could be made smaller was almost entirely because the originals had the components on the same side as the controls, but I put them on the back, which saved space.
Nice, interesting information. I'm wondering whether to try one of you Typhoons. It looks very tempting with all the expanded possibilities.
Thanks LAM for the video too.
that is very interesting thank you.. which Monsoon's do you or have you built..?
I have a Monsoon from Calsynth.. I almost have Monsoon figured out with the exception of understanding FEEDBACK..? ..the FEEDBACK parameter doesn't seem to do much..?
thank you for your time in advance..
@@normdurkin6425 Feedback only functions when you don't have the FREEZE button engaged. It feeds the output back into the input. A good way to see what it does is site the pitch just above normal, put the feedback all the way up, and make sure you have density not on center. You'll hear the repeats pitch up a bit each time they come back.
@@normdurkin6425 JakkPlug has released Mutable clones with CalSynth - including the CalSynth Monsoon, Viggen & DVCA (2chan Veils), and plenty more.
Thanks for sharing this useful info 🙏🏼💥
Monsoon seems to be clipping in this comparison, especially in first half of
the video (2:59, 3:33, 4:39, 4:47) which i find rather strange. except for that,
i haven't noticed any other tangible difference in sound of the algorithms.
agreed having the old and new together is best: i use Typhoon for lofi textures
and that characterful delay. Beads for more precise and obvious granularisation.
Thanks for listening. Haven't noticed the clipping while recording. The original file sound good.
It's definitely clipping. I can easily hear it at 3:27 and 3:32 for example. Whether or not this is because of the components used in the clone, or just a matter of gain staging in this video, I am not sure.
Hey - thanks so much for taking the time to do this - it's good to be able to show people who ask this all the time, and as has been mentioned before, get one from a quality maker that uses the best possible components, like Big T, here at Calsynth, MSW and a couple of others. If t is properly built, it will be the substitute one needs and will last in that role.
Hey man, thanks for your message nice hear this from a pro builder. Also got a nice message from Jack Plugg. So i guess we got this covered till the end of times hahahah :)
Well, it’s a digital module, so using the same schematic they will sound identical apart from the fact that most capacitors has 20% tolerance rating for example, so there might be a slight difference in amplitude, noise floor and such things. But that goes for the original MI’s as well, in that way they will also differ. IE two clouds from the same batch can have these slight differences.
That's assuming the manufacturer has followed the BoM specification to the T and used the correct values, tolerances, dielectrics, genuine parts (STM and stereo codec in particular) and that the soldering is up to snuff :) So long as the manufacturer knows what they're doing and doesn't cut corners for cost saving, you are absolutely right though.
Tbf big t and after later don't cut corners and do know what they're doing. And all the comments saying the MI ones sound better reminds me of guitarists with their centuar pedal 'toan' cork sniffing bs
@@DiscoticUKalso "genuine parts" 😂
@@laciep837 tbf, there are a lot of cheap copies of stereo codecs, STMs and op amps that get used in DIY clones. They may or may not be up to the same standard as the parts made by ST, Texas Instruments etc.
You're right about there being a psychological element to people's judgement though.
@@DiscoticUK Okay fair enough but even the OEMs buy per availability, whatever the BOM says. Like a few years ago when ppl were bashing expert sleepers for using 'knock-off' jack sockets that weren't manufactured by Cliffs, and ES had to come out and say they're literally the same thing and production demands necessitate changing parts for other brands. MI is the same, they all are. No one is ceasing production b/c they can't get a part on the BOM that can easily be sourced alternatively. But the important thing is, can you get specific? Because there's not that many ppl out there making and selling MI clones retail. MSW, After Later, Momo (lol), Big T, Calsynth... Do you happen to know if any of these are cutting corners, using incorrect values, using cheap copies of stereo codecs, or otherwise cutting corners for cost-saving in a way that will appreciably alter the sound? Because if not, saying they 'could be' doing that just spreads doubt about the clone makers and drives up the prices for discontinued MI stuff because it's 'better'. Or am I just completely missing the point?
Not sure how I should really compare the sound quality if everything is clipping and distorting like hell^^ Thanks for the effort though, would be nice to see an updated version sometime with proper gain staging!
Well i was just wondering and curious 🧐
i wonder if the clipping is because of UA-cam encoding. when you downsample audio, the digital clip is a bit lower than 0db, i have a feeling that's what we're hearing. and thanks for the compare! i like your videos very much, cheers from Canada
Am I the only one who despite his sub optimal listening environment is hearing massive difference? With the Typhoon distorting the signal all the time when reaching certain level, while Clouds mostly keeping it clean? :O :O :O
Maybe ?? I don’t know. I was there and i tested it with headphones but there was hardly any difference. And i still use the monsoon and sold clouds…. But you are saying ‘Typhoon’ so if you have a Typhoon then yes it is possible because not every clone sounds as good as the BigT monsoon. Or am i missing something here?
@@LittleAmbientMachine No I'm sorry, I meant Monsoon - this video popped up as like a 2nd search result for something like "Typhoon module" here on YT, because there's an offer for a used one I was considering to go for... (270 Euros).. So I assumed this was a Typhoon video, sorry m8. Anyway, good to know and I appreciate your input.
@@LittleAmbientMachinebut you can hear the clipping of the monsoon in this video?
Could be but that is not the monsoon but most probably the recording :) @@Delayeed9
Nice one, I was actually considering getting Clouds or a clone, but even better I'd like to have Clouds firmware into Beads while retaining the different audio quality options of Beads.
I'm in for Clouds next to Beads. They are both great modules depending on what music style you are making. Also i think they ask crazy prices for an original clouds (it's just a digital module) so go for a clone i'd say hahaha
the main addressable difference comes down to: do you like knobs that feel great, or anyhting to get it done. The slider faders on the monsoon are actually quite annoying and have a decent amount of resistance (or the motion of sliding something that small feels more resistant at least) Im returning my monsoon for an OG clouds fyi
Thanks a lot for that video!!! I'm asking myself this "Mutable Original module vs Clone" question for months... as most or all of them are digital I thought there shouldn't be much of a difference. I do have an original Beads now and I find it much more useable and cleaner sounding than the uClouds I had before, but of course the Beads is a kind of different beast.
Another funny thing, I own a MicroPlaits and and a friend owns the original, and somehow I find my MicroPlaits slightly better sounding 😆
Yeah i think uburst or uclouds didn’t sound that good but i never did a one on one. Maybe i should do that too just to make sure 😃. And also there are many monsoon makers so i’m still not sure if this video would cover all the Monsoons. At least Big T stand the test haha. Thanks for your kind words 🙏🏼
Thank you!
You are welcome
Maybe it would be a good idea to use CV instead of the ports themselves when comparing an original module and a clone?
At least for the parameters that are CV controlable it should be possible.
Thanks L.A.M i've been wondering the same thing and now i know.😁😁
Hello, why are the faders not working on Big T Music Ltd Monsoon? Is there something wrong with the diodes in them? They should be flashing lights...
Never really payed attention to it. I will check it out. Maybe they will only flash when they are modulated.
@@LittleAmbientMachine I will wait for your answer because based on your recommendation about good assembly and quality, i ordered the same Monsoon =)
@@init-crioxica I just posted a message to the guy from BigTmusic. And the build quality is really good no doubt about that. With or without leds :)
@@LittleAmbientMachine But you still didn't answer, you end up with a defective copy if the LEDs on the faders do not blink during various switching... =(
@@init-crioxica Yes that is possible. But at the moment i can't check it because my system is not hooked up. As far as i know it has been like this ... :)
Hey :) Any idea how the Michigan Synth Works version compares? Thanks for the informative video.
All depends on the builder I guess, I had a Typhoon that was really noisy.
Yeah definitely. I had many but the BIGTmusic clone sounds really good. Same goes for Rangoon (rings clone)
I have the same impression with my Typhoon, I am always almost going to sell it but then I start gain staging it a bit further and always decide to keep it ^^
Great video thanks!
So nice ❤
Great Test Thx👍👍👍
I've just bought an original off eBay. Gets delivered tomorrow 😀
sorry to hear that
@VagPoop_ why?
Difference is price and availability if say.
do you find the clouds reverb to introduce a lot of noise? or is it just my unit. I read a bit about it, they say it has 12-bit reverb which is probably the reason. I don't really hear a lot of reverb noise here, though....
Never really had noise on clouds and or monsoon. I don’t know if it is 12-bit. I like the reverb on clouds very much…
@@LittleAmbientMachine thanks for the reply! It might be an issue with mine then, as I built it myself
@@racalikits weird i never noticed a noise issue until recently and only with the reverb so im guessing i have it in a lower bit setting or maybe i just never noticed
The origional MI clouds had access to better parts I hate to tell you...the reason to get a typhoon monsoon microcell greyscale ....use superparasites .. I generally use kammerl plus whatever on all I have...
Ohh well that’s good to know. I had a feeling that was the case but nobody can tell for sure unless you know about electronic part. I sure don’t 😄
I will give Kammerl it a try….
The components the original used are the same ones available to anyone willing to build one properly
On my surround sound system, the original clouds sounded better and wider