Fallen Angels | Redemption in TLOU2
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- Опубліковано 18 жов 2024
- In The Last of Us Part II, a surgery ward hallway haunts the lives of two young women who both find themselves victims of events set into motion beyond their control. But they are also victims of their own actions, actions they chose to commit. Cast down from the lofty heights of their innocence, both will plumb the depths of the Abyss from which their only escape is to mend their broken wings so that they might rise again.
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• Moth Symbolism in The ...
Music in this video:
Restless Spirits by Gustavo Santaolalla (from TLOU2)
The Obsession by Gustavo Santaolalla (from TLOU2)
Left Behind by Gustavo Santaolalla (from Left Behind DLC)
English Captions generously provided by PatientElijah
Much love from WOLF OF THORNS 🤠
#GOTY2020 #TLOU2
Finally someone who talks about abby explaining how bad she felt, analysing her character and demonstrating how her actions affected her, but without treating her like a victim. Nice video
I agree with 100% procent
@Suraj Seepersad same for Ellie with a actual purpose with meaning.
@Suraj Seepersad agreeeddddd
@Angee Pizza Yes, she did. But after obsessively hunting Joel for 4+ years, having the same recurring nightmare during those 4 years of him murdering her dad when she was a kid, and having yet another one of them on the very day she met him so it’s fresh in her mind, is him briefly saving her going to make much difference?
@@lxrdkenji Although he didn't have many lines in the first game, he was still a pretty major npc story-wise. All they did was expand his role a little and gave him some context and a daughter. To be fair it didn't work for some (for a variety of reasons), but it did work for many others. :)
just wanna say that girl Ellie killed named Whitney wasn't listening to an Ipod she was actually playing a PSVita which was an Easter egg.
Thank you, Joseph. That's good to know!
I paused the video just to make sure someone else said this. Guy played the game several times and didnt see that it wasnt an ipod
She was also playing Hotline Miami which shares similar themes of violence with TLOU.
@@MildMisanthropeMaybeMassive Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice
@@WolfofThorns Yeah, its one of two WLVes playing Hotline Miami. Both Whitney and the WLF from the FOB are listening to the same 10 second loop of the artist M O O O N's song, Hydrogen, off the OST.
Ellie kills both of these WLF and also has two chances to see the Vitas.
On a second triangle button press in conversation with Whitney, Abby can get Whitney to admit that the game is "really hard, but really good."
Thank you for this video. Nobody ever talks about this. Tried explaining this to a couple friends but they still just hate Abby
My pleasure, turtle dude. 🤠
A lot of people don't have knowledge about non-verbal language, which is shown a lot in this game and tells what wasn't expressed with words. As you mentioned, the way Abby looks at the ground, but also how Ellie touches her hands/fingers when she's anxious (this was shown in the first game too), how Abby suffers from tension in the neck (a sign of heavy emotional baggage) and how in emotional situations she touches it. Love your videos man, keep it going!
Yes! I love those kind of visual storytelling details.
Good observation there.
Exactly. And the watery eyes of Joel when he speaks to Ellie, and the sweat of Abby when she is about to kiss Ellie... all those details are amazing
I thought the neck tension was because she pumps so much fucking iron. Because I have a similar habit when I'm sore
@@TheBiakko kiss
Another great analysis. As painful as it was playing Abby for the first day in Seattle and contemplating why the player is controlling someone who killed a saga icon (Joel), but just like you said, during the 2nd and 3rd day of Abby's story in Seattle explains everything. I can't speak for anyone else, but that is the time you really get to experience her perspective. But my thoughts as well, I would suspect P3 to be the last in the trilogy.
Right on, right on. For me, my conversion probably started with her first flashback of her and Owen exploring the aquarium, and then was sealed when she, Yara, and Lev fought their way to that first trailer where she sets Yara's arm and leaves them for the night. I was totally jacked into her experience from that point on with Playthrough 1.
I stayed resentful of Abby all the way up to the point she didn’t kill Dina.
Agreed; it was interesting to see as Abby realized that in a way, she had become Joel, and later, Ellie had sorta become (early) Abby, with her wrath and single-minded drive for vengeance. It's like wrath is a skin that a character sheds, only to have the next character immediately pick it up and wear.
@@austinwalker240 It was easy to play Abby at first because I didn't care what happened to her, so I'd just charge into situations, guns blazing. It took awhile for me to adapt. Then I just used Abby to concentrate on killing Scars and WLFs, both of which were deserving of scorn IMO.
@@randomcoyote8807 I did the same at first with Abby, I don’t even know how many times I got her killed doing something stupid I would never have done with Ellie, just to rush through having to play as her. I went out of my way to kill all of the WLF at first, but not the Seraphites even though I think on some ways they were worse as an organization. The wolves got it worse honestly because I was mad about my horse.
Wow this gave me a perspective on Abby that I haven't realized before and for Ellie as well. Thank you for sharing your own analysis for these two, I actually learned something from this.
I also believe any regret Ellie has for her actions in part 2 will be explored in part 3
Hey, guys, thank you so much for the love and support! If you are really digging my content, please consider checking me out on Twitch where I stream every day: www.twitch.tv/wolf_of_thorns Once again, thank you all for being a part of my channel and this evolving experience! 🤠❤🤠
Thank you for giving the praise that this game ultimately deserves. Just as there are two different sides to every story there are two different opinions as well regarding the story. You have the power to take the words right from our mouths and describe how we feel
Wow... thank you so much for that, Silvercloud. I can't speak for anyone but I can only share what I feel and I am glad that we are kindred spirits in that regard!
@@WolfofThorns Three spirits
I felt as though Ellie's general lack of remorse and internalisation was more because her revenge quest wasn't complete, and she was still being consumed by it. Abbey had already got her revenge, so all that was left was for her to reflect.
You are absolutely right that both women are in two separate places of their process. Whereas Ellie is only seen approaching her confrontation, Abby is moving away from her confrontation, absorbing and digesting its impact on her, finding the consequences more than she can bear. Still, a single nightmare sequence with the Mel/Dina switch would have been appropriate, powerful, and really satisfied my only concerns with the narrative.
@@WolfofThorns you’re right, a dream sequence could still fit into the revenge narrative without detracting from it. Even though Ellie’s not ready or in a place to confront her actions, that doesn’t mean she can’t confront them on a subconscious level like in a dream. Love your videos btw!!
@@TheWalker2002 Thank you, Dog. I'm actually including your comment in the Descent Into Darkness video I'm working on right now. Should be published tonight or tomorrow, if all bodes well. What pronouns should I use in reference to you as the commentor?
@@WolfofThorns oh wow that’s so cool!!! thank you!! he/him are my pronouns :)
Another great video man. I love how thoughtful and thorough you are in your analysis.
It's sad how many people failed to see the bigger picture, just went over their heads.
Part of it IMO is the lack of ability to perceive things outside their emotional 'filter'. This game has so many layers, so much work and thought has been put into it.
Btw I'm so glad to see your channel growing and looking forward to seeing new videos!
Cheers
Thank you, Rocko!
The irony is that seeing things outside your emotional filter is the real theme of the story. The people hating on this game are the ones who need its message the most.
Great take, Wolf! Another great video on Part II, so glad to see it!
3:38 so glad you included this bit about the Rat King being an amalgamation of her inner demons. I got so much crap for saying that in my video, when to me it was very clearly & interestingly presented by Naughty Dog. 😉👍
As we say in Factions: “keep ‘em coming!”
Hey, thanks, T-Strat! Maybe some folks just don't want to be reminded that they have their own multi-faced inner demons to face? I certainly get no shortage of those divebombings to anything positive I have to say about the storytelling craft at play here, but thankfully the trollings are by far outweighed by those who share a mutual love for this game and all the wonderful treasures it yields to us.
You mention the third game for Ellie's internalization, and I think you're spot on - Abby has had 4 years to come to terms with her dad's death, grieve, process it as much as she's going to, etc. When I see Abby's face after she's killed Joel, I don't see guilt as much as... she's waiting to feel better, and just doesn't. She's had it in her head for so long that killing Joel will fix something, and when he's dead, nothing changes. She definitely and obviously feels bad about it too, but I don't think that's what hit her first. I think she was carrying around pain for a very long time, and she thought killing Joel would relieve it. It didn't - she just felt worse.
You see a similar though rushed sequence of events with Ellie. She thinks killing Abby will help. She kills Nora, thinking it'll help, and she just feels worse. She kills Owen and Mel thinking it'll help, and she just feels worse. And she feels worse, and she feels worse, and she thinks kill Abby will relieve it, just like Abby thought about killing Joel. And she finally gets her hands around Abby's neck, and she finally has her on the brink of death, and all she can think about is Joel watching her, and she just. Feels. Worse.
I think she needs some time to sort through her feelings, especially since she has more pre-existing guilt than Abby. Abby and her dad were close, their last conversation was loving, whilst Ellie and Joel were estranged, their last conversation was a tiny first step towards reconciliation. They were going to spend the first evening together in a long time, the day Joel died, they were going to watch a movie for the first time in years, and that was taken away. Not just by Abby killing Joel, but by Ellie taking so long to come back to him. Ellie has a lot of guilt about that, and I think that's a big part of why most of her energy is focussed on Joel - that's where most of her guilt is focussed. I think now that she's had the change to kill Abby and realised she was chasing the wrong thing, the guilt will slowly shift as she starts to heal. She'll make peace with how things ended with Joel, and become more haunted by what she did in her pursuit of Abby, just like Abby started to feel more haunted by her killing of Joel the more time passed.
The way this guys keeps on finding things to talk about is crazy and just eye opening to things we’ve never thought of and the fact his upload game is great man deserves a award keep it up
It's not me, man. It's the art. I can't sit here and make 30 videos about the narrative quality of Horizon Zero Dawn and other adventure games because, while great games for various reasons they may be, they can't hold a narrative candle to the complexity of human storytelling we were given in The Last of Us series. In my view, any way. If every game were comparable to this, I would be in hog heaven.
Thank you for spreading positive reactions towards this beautiful game, thank you for giving us fans a voice in the midst of the controversies, and thank you for the realizations you have given us about the game.
I would like to mention that when Abby returned from the hospital with the first aid kit, that was the only time she saw her father alive in her dream. Everytime she opened that door, it was either her dad lying in a pool of blood, or the Seraphites sibling hanging. And the face she made when she woke up...it's like she finally found peace. I really love that scene, and I love Abby in Santa Barbara the best(before she was captured of course), she looked so light and carefree and happy. For Ellie, I love her in the first game, such a special soul, the world doesn't deserve her. What Joel did and what Abby did to Joel wiped that child from the earth, all actions have consequences. The game really showed us a lot, think before you act, because sometimes you'll never get a second chance. Great video, man! Really love your works~~
You are by far my favorite person to go to for TLOU video essays. Always poignant, sharp, and willing to ask tough questions with productive criticism, not unfounded, biased hate. Will watch any video you post!
Thank you, Gabrielle! 🤠
I wish more people watched this video. This is what a good analysis regarding two characters with different perspectives looks like. Another job well done!!! 🔥
Glad you enjoyed it! 🤠
100% worth the wait. Every single video of yours is!👍
Man, thank you so much, Sibora
Finally someone who sees both sides of the story and perspectives. Loving your work, you earned a subscriber.
I love and appreciate your perspective and breakdown of storylines for this game so much. It really brings in so many angles of the storylines.
After hearing the aspect of comparing the different points of processing and recognition of actions - it brought up pondering a feel that Ellie and Abby are in their own unique point of ability to reflect. Although there is not much of Abbys very young years or history prior - it seems like she had a strong sense of bonding with her father + a sense of community, which could bring in a vast difference in how she processes trauma/actions. Ellie, from what we see, had a very violent and traumatic childhood with continuous loss and instability. No real sense of community + long term bonding until a certain point with Joel + the years in Jackson. It kinda makes me wonder about another layer to Ellie’s reactivity + constant survival mode ~ not really comprehending the true collective of what she was willing to sacrifice for her revenge until she finally stopped and sat down in the end. Even though there were heavy hints she naturally faced leading up to it. 💜😌
I absolutely adore Abby. The fact that she shows self awareness and Ellie doesn’t really shows their raw character. The amount of hatred Abby is given shows the true amount of intelligence or empathy a person has. People who only see Ellie’s side fail to take in how Abby, technically speaking from being haunted from her past actions unlike Ellie, is a better person. This whole game is about symbolism and perspective. It lets you choose what side you prefer and how you interpret the symbols within the gameplay. In my opinion i absolutely adore this game and think that it was near the best it could’ve been. In my opinion Abby shows more empathy and kindness for others due to how haunted she is by her actions, unlike Ellie, who went so far as to choose killing Abby over saving Joel’s brother Tommy, who she had grown up alongside in the first game. This is a very powerful game :)
Goodness you've have great content. As much as I love your videos, I really like that your viewer numbers at the moment don't constitute having much-too-loud ads crassly interrupting them.
Hey man I just need for you to know that you've brought me to tears with your beautiful description of this beautiful game. Keep up the good work
I absolutely concur with your assessment that I would have really liked to see more of Ellie's internalizing her PTSD. As you suggested, Ellie having a nightmare where she sees a dead pregnant woman, but she has Dina's face would have been really powerful.
My only counterpoint or idea to Ellie's lack of internalization for what she's done is her mentality of, "They got what they deserved" as articulated by Tommy.
I would like to continue both Ellie and Abby's storylines in TLOU3, also wouldn't it be kind of interesting to play as a hardcore devoted Seraphite character and see their point of view?
Someone in a comment section said that "The game tried too hard to make us feel bad for abby" like bruh... do they even have empathy?
@@shade2987 She was going to kill her out of revenge for her own pregnant friend (but didn’t). Remember Abby doesn’t know the details of what happened at the marina. She arrived to find an obviously pregnant Mel lying dead on the floor with a knife in her neck and her ex lover Owen lying dead shot in the stomach. Are you saying that isn’t going to mess her head up as much as Ellie’s is? (PS. Hi again... 😉)
Love the theories you brought up in this segment. Thanks again for making these😎
Your TLOU2 videos are Goat dude ! Never stop making theme haha . Lots of love 🖤!
Thanks a ton, Zubair! 🤠
Hey Wolf, just a question.. But are you hoping for a part 3?
he made a vid about part 3....
Absolutely.
i hated abby before i got to play as her. When i did i ended up liking them both so when at the end of the game i thought ellie was going to kill abby and i wanted them both to live
Great video as always. There's also the bit where Abby says to Mel "What sort of monster could do that" over what she did to Joel. It shows how she see's herself. She turned herself into a monster to get revenge in the hop it would lead to closure and an escape from the recurring nightmare about her dad's death.
Now it's two months after Joel's death and she still having the nightmare (incidentally this is the same nightmare she awoke from at the start of the game which explains why she was so driven to go off on her own and why Joel saving her meant so little). I felt her guilt isn't specifically over Joel but also over everything she'd done over the last four years to get to that point.
I think some people were annoyed she doesn't come out and say it directly but I love that it's more subtle than that. I love that her story is almost totally detached from Ellies until they meet up at the Theatre. My only regret is they never get a chance to "talk it out". Ellie never finds out that Abby killed Joel because he killed her dad, not because of the cure. Abby never finds out that Joel was kind of Ellie's father figure.
One other thing I felt was Ellie does kind of express regret for her actions in her last journal entries (but again it's subtle) where she wonders if there's anything worthwhile left of her to back to Dina and JJ with.
One thing that made me realize playing tlou2 is that there is no bad and good people but survivors. Love all your content keep it up.
Thank you, Jess. 🤠
I wish I could support your Patreon because this is amazing
No worries at all. Your appreciation and the love you share in the comments is a very strong form of support, my man, and thank you for that! 🤠
One of the reasons I love this game is there's a lot of show don't tell. I don't need Abby to give me exposition on her guilt. I can see guilt and lack of satisfaction on her face when she committed the act. I can see that the reason she save Lev and Yara is for guilt for what she did because she knows she's far from a good person and letting them die would make her feel even worse. I think people need to understand that though she feels guilty Joel is still the man who killed her father so she can't feel as guilty as you want her to feel. Plus her nightmares also an indication never ending after she killed him probably making her feel even worse for doing all that for nothing.
I just found your channel, I've been watching your videos and all I can say I love your content! Keep it up!
Thanks, Elle! Glad you're loving the content.
Thank you for your great content. As someone who just completed the game, watching your videoes gives me a sense of closure of some sort.
Anyone but me binge watching his vids? Keep up the great work I love these vids
Glad to hear it, Angry Thumb Man! And will do. 🤠
I love all the videos made about tlou2 your page is very underrated and im sure one day you will become one of the most popular gaming channel in the world
You're very sweet for saying that. Thank you. 🤠
Ellie is suffering from PTSD tho.
so happy to see someone actually appreciate the story telling in this game rather than all the blind hate this game gets. i feel like most if not all hate about this game are from players who didn’t even play and pay attention to abbys side of the story
This video is so fking good!!! “Abby is carrying her younger self” wow. Wow. It’s the way this game gives us soooo much in the little dialogues when our characters are walking next to each other, I loooved how you included that clip of Abby mentioning she wanted to lighten to the load, which is so different in contrast to her attitude on day 1 when she’s defensive in a convo with Manny about Mel, saying “We all wanted him dead.”
It reminds of me Dina and Jessie challenging Ellie’s thoughts in little dialogues while they’re walking. Like when Dina mentions that they let Ellie and Tommy live, and she stays ignorant to it. Or when Jessie brings up how they’re going through a lot of people because of what Joel did and Ellie continues justifying herself by mentioning the hostility of the faction, deciding they deserve to die since they shoot on sight. I’d love a video on Ellie’s 3 days and decent into darkness and if she feels guilty for all she’s done
Thank you, AA. I just might do exactly what you're suggesting. If so, I'll be sure to credit your request! Stay tuuuuuned!
I do agree with what you’re saying, I just think that this was a horrible direction to take the story and given the first game I have trouble digesting it. I made a video on how this is the “wrong” story but I do agree with your analysis.
Such a good video cant believe you dont have more subscribers
Thank you, registered trademark introvert. I really appreciate that thought. 🤠
Good to see such in depth critiques on the game that see far past the frivolous drama.
You're amazing dude. Keep doing this you're very good at it!
Keep in mind that Abbie had 4 years to ruminate on revenge before finally committed it and that Ellie had much shorter of a time before deciding not to. In my mind. Ellie is the one that truly chose forgiveness in the end.
Yeah I think Ellie gets a bad rap because we're just seeing a different spot in her redemption arc. Abby has fallen so far, even so much as being the top killer in a militia, yet we allow her the chance to come back from her sins, we have to apply the same level of understanding to Ellie also.
Very true, however that's also 4 years of recurring nightmares about finding her dad dead, 4 years of frustration about not being able to find his killer and 4 years of physically and mentally preparing yourself to face his killer if the confrontation finally comes. That's gonna mess anyones head. Also when Abby forgives Ellie at the Theatre, it's literally within a few hours of finding Owen and Mel murdered by Ellie. When Ellie meets Abby again at the pillars, it's about a year and a half to two years after Joels death (as a rough guide, the length of Dina's pregnancy + JJ's age when Ellie left the farm + the time it took her to travel to Santa Barbara to find Abby).
I am reluctant to make direct comparisons between Ellie and Abby though as it's too easy to start a "who's best" discussion. Although the are both dealing with loss and revenge, their stories are actually quite different in many ways and we are seeing them at separate points in their journey. In my mind, the important thing is they both made the right choice in the end and hopefully will find some peace because of it.
@@shade2987 It is debatable that neither of them actually "forgave" the other, they just decided not to take revenge and let it go. Maybe that is the same thing.
Yes, Abby was about to kill Dina as she saw her being pregnant as a way to even the score over Mel (whom she had just found killed by Ellie & co a few hours previously) until Lev snapped her out of it at which case she choses to spare them and walks away.
In the same way, Ellie was about to kill Abby (who had shown her no animosity at the pillars, was willing to help her and consistently refused to fight her again up to the point where she threatened to kill Lev) until the flashback of her last conversation with Joel snapped her out of it and she chose to let Abby and Lev go.
I do think Ellie's story and lesson was more complicated than Abby's. For her, it wasn't just about Abby. I think she also needed to remember she had shown Joel she was willing to try and forgive him meaning he died knowing she still cared and she had to forgive herself for not doing it sooner so they could have had a full reunion. (even as I type this though, I'm thinking Abby had to forgive herself becoming the monster that could do the things she did).
The reason the flashback of Joel on the porch stopped Ellie is also open to various interpretations as to why it did. Personally I think she saw something of Joel in Abby. Not the selfish Joel who had lied and hurt her, but the loving protector Joel who would give his life for someone he cared about.
@@shade2987 I saw it differently though. You can make the same argument that Ellie got to walk away from all the people she killed to get to Abby. Yes, Abby got to kill Joel in revenge for her dad, but Ellie got to kill Jordan, torture Nora to death, kill Owen and Mel and "walk away with people she loved".
If you're going to talk about balancing the scales, I think you're making the same mistake Abby did when she said "Good" about Dina. She saw Dina being pregnant as a way to balance the scales over Mel (and Owen). If you argue they deserved it, then Abby was just as entitled to kill Ellie and Dina at the Theatre in revenge for Owen and Mel as Ellie was to kill her over Joel but thanks to Lev, she didn't. Lev has seen plenty of worse things to be traumatised about, I don't think that was why she didn't do it. She realised Lev was more important than taking revenge for her friends. She got peace because she walked away from taking revenge for her friends, not because she killed Joel. This doesn't guarantee her a happy ending though since she later gets captured, enslaved and tortured by the rattlers. However playing the who suffered most game is just the other side of the who is worst coin.
The non aggression at the pillars is relevant because it shows the change in Abby between the Theatre and roughly two years later when they meet again. It shows how much she has moved on. It's also relevant to Ellie who has been remembering "Theatre Abby" for two years and that's who she has been imaging facing and killing. The Abby she meets at the pillars is a totally different person and not just physically. The only reason Ellie didn't walk away then herself was another flashback of Joels battered face when she sees the blood from her wound.
Just like Abby, Ellie got peace in the end by walking away too. The story just finishes before we find out what Ellie does next. The message to me was you cannot balance the scales, there are no "winners", just survivors. The only real way to "win" is to find something worth living for as Joel said or as the Fireflies say, look for the light. Abby found it in Lev. Ellie is now free to decide what that is going to be for her. Hopefully we'll find out in part 3.
I do appreciate being able to discuss this civilly even when we disagree in our opinions. :)
@@shade2987 If Abby had captured Tommy on patrol and tortured him to death to get him to tell her where Joel was, would you be so quick to pass that off as well Tommy was too stupid or loyal to take up her offer? Abby's friends have NO guarantee that Ellie will spare them if they talk as so far Ellie has left no-one alive and Tommy killed the guy at the hotel after he got the information he needed.
Jesse got the same choice Manny did, he got shot in the middle of a fight.
for the entire gameaboutkilling
It all depends how you score it. Let's look at who dies vs who lives.
Abby (lives)
Lev (lives)
Jerry (dies)
Yara (dies)
Owen (dies)
Mel (dies)
Nora (dies)
Other more random firefly friends (die)
Ellie (lives)
Tommy (lives)
Dina (lives)
JJ (lives)
Joel (dies)
Jesse (dies)
In the suffering stakes, you've also got to include 4 years of broken relationships, obsession, flashbacks and nightmares for Abby since her story started back when Joel killed her dad.
Your comment of "my main character" vs "entitled brat" I think get's to the real core of the issue. You wanted a game like the first one where you got to play Joel and Ellie again, and that's fair enough. You didn't get the game you wanted and that sucks. But it meant for you, killing Joel was the unforgivable crime and you were never going to forgive Abby for it or give her the same level of understanding and sympathy you gave Joel and Ellie.
I don't think that will ever change unless you learn to forgive the game.
You absolute genius finally someone who can see both sides!!!
Thank you man. You’re one of extremely scarce people who don’t go “Go WoKe oR gO bRoKe”
It's also pretty poignant to note how Abby carrying Yara mirrors Joel carrying Sarah/Ellie. A lot of her personal redemption mirrors Joel's, ironically, or beautifully enough. Losing her only family to an armed attacker, and then only growing and changing by bonding with a kid to feel some kind of second chance.
Finally videos where they say positive things about a GREAT game
I don't think Abby started out seeking redemption, myself; at first it seemed to me that everyone in the Salt Lake Fireflies/WLF crew seemed to feel that they had done "the right thing" and that "Joel deserved it" even if it was difficult. Abby's facial expression after beating Joel to death seemed more like a relief of tension, finally coming out of the foggy red haze that had hung over her mind while on her years-long quest for vengeance.
Once you accomplished the driving mission of your life, there's that sense of, "well, now what do I do? Now that I'm done, am I still relevant?"
The funny thing is, even though the SLC/WLF group got back to Seattle, it was evident that they were breaking apart. Owen & Mel were the obvious ones, but it seemed that there were walls forming between them all. Abby did start questioning what she did, eventually, but really only after meeting Lev and Yara. Up to that point she buried her questions about the rightness of her cause.
But yeah, Ellie became a cruel mixture of "Brutal Joel" and "Raging Abby", reflecting that which her environment had thrust upon her. A third game is a must (IMO) so she can come into her own and take charge of herself fully. Not that I'm, you know, biased in any way, of course. :)
You just got a new sub out of me bro, I love this stuff! You’ve been killing the Last Of Us content 🔥
Thank you, my man. I really appreciate that. 🤠
Another great analysis, Dan! Fantastic.
Mel's death was her own fault, I don't think Ellie would of killed Mel in cold blood. Ellie ended up stabbing Mel while defending herself after Mel attacked her.
Something that might be nothing but I found interesting is that Ellie doesn't believe she's worth saving. I don't think a lot of people take into account Ellie's mindset as a person who was potentially the savior of humanity. She could have save the world but was denied that. A small detail I thought interesting is that in the beginning of the game Ellie is offered food which she doesn't take despite not having had any breakfast. Meanwhile when we play as Abby and she is offered food she does eat it. Its a small, silly thing but I believe its an insight to the two women's mindset.
I love your videos man,keep going!!
Mannnn you’re a genius. I think Abby was interesting and just a whole new approach to elite video game developing.
I really think,the idea of adding nightmares of Mel's dead body ,with the face of Dina would've been an great add to the game , I don't know how it would've been added , maybe an extra Page in the journal , or a nightmares in the farm , but even without that , I still love this game
Fun fact the lady using the iPod isn't actually using an iPod but rather a PS Vita and she's playing hotline Miami on it
Though I'm not sure if you already know, but TLOU 2 ost actually has some titles that help symbolizes the aspects of the game.
This is a beautiful video and you do great work! Are you able to do a video on the Seraphites? Because I thought the theme was interesting and there's so much more to discover. Especially with the prophet that was being used. Yara asked Abby if she read her (the prophet) writings when they were scouting with each other. Just completed the game!
Hey there, Joshguy, I did do a video which you can find in my essays and The Last of Us playlists called Faith vs Fanaticism. It's just a quick-hit essay on faith and the seraphites--let me know what you think.
@@WolfofThorns Thank you! Will definitely check it out
Abby's nightmare at the hospital clearly indicated that even though she got her revenge both the world and her mind were still broken
Damn I never really looked at the game in this manner, thank you for the insight as I replay the entire thing again.
Best analysis on UA-cam!!
Thank you, Grim Tim. 🤠
amazing job man, keep it up
What about after the hospital area when Ellie comes back and tells Dina that she "made her talk" - she was already showing signs of the weight of her actions. They way the story plays through she doesn't have enough time to process like Abby does. Abby has had weeks if not months to process what she did. Ellies focus may have been on the trauma of what happened to Joel and so that is what is explored more. Abby is further in her journey, both from what happened to her with the loss of her Dad and with what she did as revenge.
'scuse me sir, where exactly did you find this voice? I'd like to get one.
***spoiler comment**** I'm currently playing through Settle day 1 Abby's story and now I wish Joel had just taken Abby's father down instead of killing him, I mean Joel was like the Solid Snake of a pandemic apocalypse he could have easily disarmed the Doc without killing him then all this could have been a different story, Ellie is still my girl, but I don't hate Abby anymore, I understand her pain
one cannot use poison. as a replacement medicine when one needs to heal their own soul
hits deep sounds like me now lmaoo
for me the reason why ellie doesnt deal with what she has done like abby has is because abby has gone through her revenge. abby at the start of the game is very similar to ellie throughout the game. very determined and doesnt care about how many lives may be lost(like when abby was willing to go guns blazing into jackson). abby is able to deal with her actions whereas ellie hasnt. at the end of the game in the farm house is where we see her start to move on from joel and in my eyes deal with her own actions
Sry I’m late I’m just at school when you post ps love your vids
I would say this shows what happened with Joel in how Ellie treated him, how he lied to her, how she couldn’t save him, how they were just starting to mend their relationship is the thing that haunts Ellie. Maybe she forgave herself with what happened with Mel. Probably didn’t cross creators mind. But would have been an interesting scene.
Very valid points to consider, Jennifer. I hold out hope that Neil and Halley are saving Ellie's internalization and healing arc for a third story/game.
Again a really good video👍
You can never trust angels because when they fall, they turn into demons.
I recommend to anyone to replay this game. I was much more with abbys story the second time around. I was so caught up with Joel’s death, it was hard for me to get into her story. One thing I did not like was it felt like the story dragged on much more the second time but that’s just me.
Refreshing to see someone who can judge abby as a character and not joel's killer. For me though I just can't like her or even find myself wanting to be on her side for two reasons. One she tortured Joel before killing him and far as I could tell she could've been beating on him for hours or minutes and that's just sick! Then the other reason I can't side with her is because she was knowingly going to kill a pregnant woman! Her exact line when ellie said Dana was pregnant was simply "good" then only stopped because lev spoke up. The only changes I would've made would have Joel as a boss fight, and throw the knife down upon discovering dana's pregnancy then briefly berate ellie for doing so then leave.
I think she only comes to realise what she did in the last scene of the game, when she finishes playing the guitar. I think she felt was she did was justified and that is why she abandons the farm to search for abby. If the realisation of the horrendous things she did came before, she wouldn't have gone after Abby.
Sorry for my english.
I love your fantastic videos!!
hey your on trending spotlight channels congrats its how i found you
Hey wolf! Big fan! Was wondering if maybe you could make a video about the 2 hour journey as Abby going to the hospital and retrieving the supplies for Yara. I’m a huge fan of TLOU2 but felt these 2 hours were the most time I had wasted in the game and am still trying to make sense of why it even happened. And yes I’m referring to the fact that Yara dies right after we spent all this time getting her meds. lol would love to hear your thoughts! Thanks :)
Like why do you think Naughty Dog felt we needed to spend 2 hours doing this?
Hey, Ashleigh Mae! So glad you're enjoying the content. You make a good point. It might be a bit. I have several videos in production, including some non TLOU ones I want to do for you guys, but I will throw this idea in the production queue.
@@WolfofThorns No worries it was just something I’ve always wondered about! It’s just a suggestion - I won’t be offended if you don’t get to it lol! Love the content man ❤️ keep it up
This video gave me goosebumps..
Why'd I read this as Redemption in RDR2? Lmao regardless great video man
One masterpiece for another, perhaps? Arthur Morgan forever! 🤠
I really don't think Abby felt guilt for killing Joel... she constantly reminds Manny he got what he deserved, and was also unable to understand Ellie and Tommy's perspective
Great vid
Oh my God I love this video I don't know why but I had goosebumps for Life 6 minutes 🔥
Awesome to know that, Lokmane. Thank you for sharing. 🤠
4:04 That's a PS Vita! And it just makes her more relatable.
These vids are brilliant
I like your comparison of both character developments but I think you’re unfair when you say Ellie hasn’t internalised anything she has done.
Abby begins the game years after having lost her father and she was never a witness to his killing. Also Joel having murdered him does not correlate to any guilt in her. It’s not her fault.
Ellie on the other hand has witnessed Joel being brutally murdered in front of her AND she knows that the reason Abby killed him is because of what he’s done to save her. She feels obliged to see this through because in her head Joel died because of her - not only that, she’s been treating him like shit for the past years and she was just about to forgive him and never got the chance to do so.
Ellie’s arc is one of trauma, grief and guilt but it’s all amalgamated with the guilt she feels for being responsible for Joel’s death, for not having enjoyed the time she had while Joel while she could AND for all she’s done and given up to accept his loss.
The games closing scene to me is the tipping of the scale. When she reconciled all she’s done and what she’s become. She internalised it all. But for her the trauma and the guilt were much deeper and her grief has stripped her of all the joy she had.
Very beautifully said, Victor.
Nice one man!
Abby is such a complex and great character. It saddens me that so much of the fan base wrote this game off as a forgettable mess. I don't think they truly paid attention to what the story was trying to tell us.
Joel died and nobody should dwell on it. I was excited to see the narrative take such a dark turn. Although, I personally never connected with Joel like most people did. There was so little known about him and I just couldn't relate to him. I considered his death to be relatively insignificant in the big picture. It was just a catalyst to ignite the true narrative.
This was interesting
Fun thinking exercises for sure
Basically, Abby is seeing what she did wrong bc she's gotten her revenge, and she realized that it wasn't really what she wanted. Ellie is far behind Abby in the grieving process. She's basically 16 year old Abby throughout the game.
Ellie turned to Abby’s arc in wanting revenge, whereas Abby turned to Joel’s arc in regaining her humanity. They are in different moments of their story. Albeit Abby obsessed on revenge for 4 years, and after Ellie was on the farm she tried to move on but couldn’t because of her extremely worsened PTSD and her trip to SB was one of self-preservation, trying to overcome her trauma.
The major difference is Ellie retained her humanity.
Yesss another good vid 🙏
I was glad I hear positive of this video since people I hear r negative about it 4 their reasons but I think the game is great bcuz it's a reflection of what we do as human beings but can also have empathy.
loved the video!
Brilliant video as always. Is there a way to contact you? I would like to send you a theory I have written down about Ellie and Abby.
Holy fuck this dude is fucking amazing
Can you do a video on how to seraphite Whistle?...
Such a sad story...