Because there is money in broadcast rights. Licensed tournies get more major sponsors for ads, which means more money. If panda pays Nintendo for legal rights to air the game, Nintendo will seek payment and permission from everyone else. No different than a tournament that pays cash for first place, you play the game well and you get big money. Onky dIff is Alan is playing business and not smash. Diff game same goals.
I think the TLDR is spot on. Alan wanted to "legitimize" smash ultimate and bring it mainstream, he sold Nintendo a vision that he could single-handedly bring everyone together under one roof and enable Nintendo to keep a close eye on their IP (the most important thing to Nintendo). Nintendo wanted to use Panda to connect with the community as it's easier for a corporation to monitor one relationship as opposed to multiple. Nintendo's historical lack of community engagement prevented necessary communication with other TO's and combined with the absence of transparency of what he wanted to do with Panda drove Alan into a corner, and he became desperate. I give it 2 years before Nintendo trusts another org with licensing rights again. They're tough cookies, and with the PR backlash even tougher.
very true. Never forget that Nintendo Of Japan (especially the Japan Division being the boss over NoA and NoE) cares more about control than Money. I am referring to Matpat and his Game theory Video as to why Nintendo Bought the animation company and talent agency called Dynamo Pictures (now being rebrabded as Nintendo Pictures).
Imo none of this shit even really matters. Somehow a conversation about whether Nintendo and panda shut down swt became about if dr Alan is a bad guy or not lol, everything we’ve seen implies that there was probably some miscommunication or smth but at the very least panda(and Alan) had nothing to do with that, and as usual people move the goal posts further in order to try and justify their witch hunt
@@nathanlevesque7812 Stan who?? Bruh I didn’t even know who Alan was before all this drama lol I watch smash for the players not to learn the names of esports ceos. Maybe u should Stan less
Yup, If Nintendo had more or less interactions with the community this wouldn't have happened. More interactions being sponsoring their own circuit. Less interactions being letting the community do their thing.
I think people don't understand why it's impossible for Nintendo to allow smash tournaments while Pokemon, Splatoon and others get theirs, it's because Smash contains far too many IPs that requires official permissions. Just Sora alone is in bureaucratic hell trying to deal with Disney and SquareEnix, then there's BandaiNamco, Capcom, Platinum etc. to deal with, it's impossible to get all of them to agree just trying to deal with the sheer amount of paperwork and licensing fees. This is why Nintendo can only turn a blind eye and say non answers, saying they can't support and also can't license, but also can't say they won't allow, they are stuck in legal hell.
So in between me watching the "there will never be a smash player like hungry box" emp video and moist criticals coverage on smash drama,I get recommend your channel. Love it.
Alan clearly did mean to have a powerful position, but these are from the TOs he initially reached out to. I would like to hear from the TOs of the tournaments that joined Panda Cup later. What were the negotiations like for that? It seems like Panda majorly changed course on what they were doing later. Alan's bad practices seemed to be in those first few weeks in March/April, but idk if that reflects on the rest of Panda. By all accounts Nintendo actually didn't like Alan's initial approach at all
changeing corse because people wouldn't submit doenst make it better it would make it settled as bad. that just means if they submitted he would have that power and those practices would of increased without change at all.he didnt get better out of choice he lost and had to go to a diffrent plan.
20:31 - In one call, it was confirmed that that he was to be the license broker for the whole scene. This has the potential to be really, really bad for everyone. That means eventually, if he wanted to, you'd have to be part of Panda Cup to get a license. One person having the keys. I 100% get the concern. However, companies hate dealing with multiple people and organizers when it comes to their brands. It would make total sense for Nintendo to just have to deal with one person and delegate the organization efforts. From Boback's tweets it appears he didn't like dealing with Alan and didn't trust him to be "the guy" they would need to report to. This may be due to how Alan carried himself in these calls...dunno, we weren't on the zoom call. I understand the broader concern about a "monopoly" when it comes to Panda being the license distributor but for simplicity sake someone has to be. Panda seems like the only one who did the work to secure the licenses. I guess I'm just looking at this from a managerial stand point, what Nintendo saw in Panda to run the whole thing makes complete business sense to me. Panda had the players, the internal infrastructure, legal departments and business departments, a corporate backing...it seemed like the perfect partner. Also, can we talk about that Slack message in March. I see that Ken is labeling as they are predicting the fallout from Alan's actions...but could it also be seen as both LD and Ken plotting? I mean, I'm not completely convinced by my own reasoning on that since Alan said he could also predict how things could play out...but in court a lawyer could probably make a case that that Slack message was LD and Ken plotting how the events would play out.
The thing is, while it’d be nice if Nintendo handed out licenses, most people would rather Nintendo not be involved at all, because every time people tried in the past has only shown a Nintendo that hates the entire scene.
The desire for centralization is real, but it was sus how Ken and LD knew such a result... and that knowledge is tempting. And the profound dislike was there for Panda so it wasn't unthinkable that they might have crashed SWT just so Alan/Panda gets undone. In terms of being rid of Alan, they've won if they were aiming for it
@@Appletank8 In my opinion, Nintendo licensing is fine, it's just that Nintendo itself would be responsible for gathering up enough majors and supermajors along with BTS to form a board for the selection of new groups to add to the licensing program.
You could see the hurt in HBox's eyes at the 21:12 mark from hearing that testimony of what Alan said about Melee... Yeah, HBox is the cop... Book'em Hungry...
this is how nintendo has always felt about melee and CERTAINLY about project m. so hearing someone who was working with nintendo and trying to bring in all these other TOs having the same sentiment while also trying to be a champion of the community at large is pretty shitty.
@@yimwee2401 Melee is cool and all, but be realistic. Ultimate is by far a more functionally stable game than melee could ever be. And that's not just bais, that's just a basic understanding that the modern advancements in newer games will always be superior when compared to older titles.
What I think would be the most valuable of a statement right now would actually be a *former* Nintendo employee. By being former, they could likely be more open and expressive about Nintendo's actions within the Smash scene. This could help build a lot of context on Nintendo's front. It could also potentially help build more clarity to Nintendo's thoughts on Alan, VGBC, etc beyond "We COULD work with them". This is a pipe dream though.
This is a tale as old as time. A smart visionary begins a successful plan. A successful visionary shows the plan to others but makes the mistake of believing others to see the world similar to the way they see it (mostly with logic and very little feeling). Other people don't listen to the logic. The visionary gets frustrated at how they could be so stupid. The others (having a worldview dominated by feelings) latch onto the comments the frustrated visionary made and little else. The others now reinforce with each other the same feeling-based worldview. Here's what both parties see: Alan's view: The community as a whole benefits if we become ultimate centered and focus on work with Nintendo that I worked hard to secure. If our goal is to get as many people as possible playing and enjoying smash, we have to do this. (Others proceed to simply say no for no logical reason). Alan then warns them about what he's afraid will happen to the community if they don't go along with him. Others' view: Alan comes in with Nintendo backing him and tells them they should be doing things differently. Alan expects them to risk their business by quickly changing their typical way of operating. They say no because they aren't going to randomly change for a random dude. Alan then threatens them. Each thing here is Alan's actions and views cross-referenced with how it looked to most people. I know this because I think much more like Alan and I've had to slowly learn how blunt and rude I seem for simply explaining logical facts (from my point of view). This whole outbreak looks like exactly the things that happened to me
@@LHSMeleeClub You can type it into youtube. He has videos covering this. He used to work at Nintendo a while back. He even talks about stuff like the reason why Nintendo tried to make EVO drop Melee.
The "He said, she haid" all-time high at the moment. Usually in these cases the truth falls between both sides so I definitely don't think Alan intended actual sabotage since he'd have realised this level of backlash would be inevitable but apparently came across that way. Same with SWT intentionally planning to cancel their event to scapegoat Panda feels really counterintuitive.
Sadly with multiple proven lies alan told in his document such as him saying no hotel bookings were made when they were and verified to be. It make the situation more of a he said -she said, but one of them is known to tell lies
No dude, everyone is clear that Alan didn't intend sabotage. but he's an arrogant prick that wanted to push his vision down everyone's throats. the guy is so high in the clouds he doesn't even realize how this sabotages all the hard work everyone put in to build the community and variety. not to mention the ridiculous deals he wanted to make with the TO's. I believe he genuinely thinks he deserves the absurd things he asked from them. and if that part about him holding the keys is true, that makes it 1000 times worse than it already is.
@@LordKingler302 Yeah no doubt Alan seems to have a manipulative personality by trait from what he's said unfortunately but the intial thought of him intentionally sabotaging just never made sense to me, the aim for a power play and his personality giving off the idea he was threatening them feels real.
@@ghosthunter0950 Not intially, many were full on thinking he tried strong-arming them to get canned. Now it just seems he was out of his filed when trying to approach TOs expecting them to be easily receptive.
@@kingdomcomesuperman3669 Yeah it def felt like he honestly wanted to help the smash scene , it's just that in his vision of "Help" He had to be king lol
Where are these people who don't agree with these basic values, exactly? There are always fringe nutjobs in every community, political faction, etc. But now the behavior of an infinitesimal minority is exaggerated and used as a ploy for sympathy and cover from people who have done legitimately reprehensible things or made significant mistakes.
My personal interpretation of this whole thing: 1) Alan has a bit of a hero complex. 2) I think he honestly thought that his vision for the Panda Cup what was best for the Smash community, but instead of of working with everyone to get their opinion on what to do he tried to force his vision on everyone. 3) Alan was 100% in the wrong but not because of greed, just because of arrogance and lack of wisdom. 4) And Nintendo REALLLLY didn't help the situation.
It almost sounds like Nintendo didn't background check Alan/Panda or read whatever portfolio he had. Having no connection to other TOs and little-known major tourney signing on was big RED FLAG.
I can back kodorin never lying about anything. I've known him for 10ish years when he used to play TF2 and he was one of the most upstanding guys in the community.
My take away from all this: 1. Alan was not responsible for SWT getting cancelled, he simply predicted that they won't get the license in time based on his own experience with nintendo and people interpreted that warning as a threat. 2. Nintendo didn't cancel SWT, they simply didn't give them a license. They still could've run it without a license but that would've been too expensive (that's at least how I understood it). That's generally how I understand nintendo, they don't care about our events anymore (unless we use mods, then they will take us down) but they won't give us licenses. So we can still run our events, we just cannot expect support from nintendo. 3. Alan wanted to make a deal with BTS but BTS didn't want to make a deal with Panda. But Alan kept pressing on and pissing them off. So it's basically a "read the room Alan" moment. 4. Panda is now throwing Alan under the bus to save their own skin. Understandable though a little mean-spirited ngl. Very unfortunate situation, but imo SWT made a very morally questionable thing with their mentioning of Panda and specifically Alan in their original post. It basically framed them (him) as the villain of the whole situation which seems very unfair to me. Also, I find the Alan vs Hotbids thing ironic because I feel like the smash community has the same relationship with nintendo. We keep pestering nintendo about working together with us and they keep saying "no", in the same manner Alan kept pestering BTS to work with them and them continuously saying "no". Just like Alan should've stopped trying to persuade BTS to work with them, maybe we should stop trying to persuade nintendo to work with us.
I think your recap perfectly states it all except point 4. I don't believe panda threw Alan under the bus but rather be stepped down because of how quickly the community turned on him before even hearing his statement and he no longer wants any part of it. I also really like your analogy of hotbids vs Alan and the community vs Nintendo. Feels spot on.
@@jeffciprian4211 Yeah I don't doubt that Alan was okay with leaving after all that, but I've read tweets from a Panda employee now coming out saying that they never liked Alan to begin with or saying stuff like "Alan never believed in melee", which I have the suspicion that it's partly staged or at least exaggerated to create a distance between Panda and Alan. I don't doubt that Alan made a lot of mistakes but he also did a lot of good for the scene and its players. Just seems unfair to me to beat down on him now that everyone is against him.
Sounds like a power play to try and ignore TO concerns and convince them to sign on to avoid the possibility of Nintendo interference - at the expense of a downgrade in their careers. Still pretty scummy
Alan: bUt WHy WoULd i dO sOmEThiNg THat CoUlD bLOw uP iN mY FAcE Greed, incompetence, recklessness, the unwavering hubris of thinking anyone could be in charge of the entire scene...the only thing that surprises me is how little of this surprised me. Like Panda Cup and SWT approaching a circuit in totally opposite way; licensing as a means to get tournaments vs tournaments in order to have something worth licensing. Alan even had the gall to act like the idea of a circuit was his original divine vision, as if nobody ever had the most obvious thought...of basically just expanding what Summit already did.
Alan is basically Madara from Naruto. His plans were to use the power he had to forcefully unite smash under an iron fist, kind of like the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan
I think what Alan was trying to hint at was maybe partially true. He knew Nintendo would start shutting down unlicensed events and used that as a bargaining chip. Hopefully Nintendo now sees that the community is tired of their shit and will scorch earth anyone who might be involved in these tournament witch hunts. If they aren't careful they'll find their "licensed" tournaments will be boycotted next.
This isn't even he said/she said but this is he said/THEY said. It's Alan's word vs. almost every other tournament organizer in the scene. Note that Alan never acknowledges why the Melee scene is wary of Nintendo - he keeps saying "Smash Scene" as if they are the same thing. Nintendo's been good with Ultimate from the very beginning but has literally everything in their power to stop Melee's growth without chucking out C&Ds. Do you think Alan would have stopped this trend - no he would've continued it. And it's why a lot of TOs, many who have roots in Melee, didn't want to work with him.
This is a tale as old as time. A smart visionary begins a successful plan. A successful visionary shows the plan to others but makes the mistake of believing others to see the world similar to the way they see it (mostly with logic and very little feeling). Other people don't listen to the logic. The visionary gets frustrated at how they could be so stupid. The others (having a worldview dominated by feelings) latch onto the comments the frustrated visionary made and little else. The others now reinforce with each other the same feeling-based worldview. Here's what both parties see: Alan's view: The community as a whole benefits if we become ultimate centered and focus on work with Nintendo that I worked hard to secure. If our goal is to get as many people as possible playing and enjoying smash, we have to do this. (Others proceed to simply say no for no logical reason). Alan then warns them about what he's afraid will happen to the community if they don't go along with him. Others' view: Alan comes in with Nintendo backing him and tells them they should be doing things differently. Alan expects them to risk their business by quickly changing their typical way of operating. They say no because they aren't going to randomly change for a random dude. Alan then threatens them. Each thing here is Alan's actions and views cross-referenced with how it looked to most people. I know this because I think much more like Alan and I've had to slowly learn how blunt and rude I seem for simply explaining logical facts (from my point of view). This whole outbreak looks like exactly the things that happened to me
You have to remember. Alan is dealing with cold logic and barely affected by nostalgia. As he sees it, either melee and ultimate both die along with the whole smash scene, or they partner with Nintendo and grow the ultimate scene. As he sees it. People have to choose to kill one game, or two, but nostalgia blinds them.
@@allisthemoist2244 I’d prefer to see the smash scene remain how it is over dropping melee. I don’t even play the game but there are so many people that love that game.
@@willpi6413 that's a fine view, and probably what at least 80% of the people agree with in the community. Alan (almost certainly) didn't see it that way, so I wanted people to understand his perspective. Right or not, he thought that hanging on to melee (according to Alan a less popular game to the public that we would want to expand the scene into) would drag the entire scene into failure. Because he thinks differently, I want people to understand his mind. I don't know if he was right or not, it'll be a long time before I'd make such a call
@@allisthemoist2244 "Alan is dealing with cold logic and barely affected by nostalgia" except that his logic is not....logical for most people in the Melee scene. Why should they be sacrificed for his vision, when most could care less about Ultimate? That sounds like dictator behavior - sacrificing a population for more money into his "chosen" community. He literally didn't do his research (doesn't know who LD is, Melee's history of Nintendo's backstabbing, how to get broadcasting rights), tried to position Panda as the sole arbiter of the esport, and then is frustrated by his own incompetence with communication. Maybe if he knew he sucked at communicating, he should just let other people communicate. From what JuggleRob said and from many other TOs, they got great help from Panda's teams, so he clearly had many talented and competent employees. This really just smells of an owner being too hands-on in an ecosystem he knew not enough about, with people whose goals did not match his (he wants more money like in other esports, they just want to play without outside interference). Melee isn't propped up by nostalgia, it's propped up by people who just like the game - there's new players every year, some of who weren't even born before the game came out - and their endgoal has nothing to do with money. He should've taken a page out of Golden Guardians to see how an org should work with the community for more synergistic outcomes, rather than his scorched-earth-my-way-or-the-highway approach (which, crazily enough, he shows in his screenshots with other tournament TOs where they accuse him of being threatening and constantly changing his proposals)
Is it possible that what they perceived as a threat was simply the truth? It sounds like Alan knew SWT wasn't getting licensed before the official decision was made and shared information that wasn't his to share. It's conceivable that he thought he was doing them a favor. It's also possible that he's ultimately right, that partnering with Nintendo is the only way forward. We may not like it, but Nintendo could effectively end professional Smash as we know it any time they wanted. That's just the reality until IP laws are changed.
It's suuuuuper unlikely that Nintendo actually told Alan that they were definitely not going to licence the SWT half a year before they told VGBC. Nintendo doesn't generally tell people anything.
This is definitely what happened. Without a doubt in my mind. And the most cringe thing about all this is that not getting a license and getting shut down are 2 different things. There are literally brain dead monkeys in this community and think Alan saying “you might not get a license next year” is him threatening to shut them down, even when Nintendo blatantly, publicly, openly invited SWT to run their championships.
@@holyknightthatpwns If I recall, the implication is that it took Panda 3 years to get a license, so unless SWT offered something exceptionally good to Nintendo to get it in less time, they were not getting it in time for their tour. Alan might have been aggressive, but if others joined Panda, it might have sped up the process or at least given them the okay since Panda DID get the okay from Nintendo.
@@nathanfigueroa2099 Nintendo publicly invited them to run their championships after the event had been shut down, and SWT wasn't going to start back up after they'd already cancelled. If you read the email they sent to SWT, it very clearly says that Nintendo does not want them to run the event, in almost the exact same wording that they sent to Big House right before they C&D them. If Nintendo hadn't shut down tournaments last minute in the past then it would be reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt, but given their track record it seems really reasonable to think they were planning on shutting down SWTC
@@1NameGoesHere the general complaint isn't that Nintendo didn't give SWTC a licence, it's that they told them that the time for unlicensed events is over, that they understood the negative PR that would happen with them cancelling SWTC, and then followed up in writing saying that SWTC should not operate without a licence.
One interesting thing about this video is that the outcry from relavent parties on Twitter like TO’s and those who had business discussions with Alan all dispute his claims regarding the verbal conversation he had, his tone, his language, his intent, etc. but they widely ignore his statements regarding SWT perhaps not having the resources to hold the tournament in the first place and knowing that they didn’t have enough time to get a license, therefor putting their tournament in danger. Nobody has seemed to dispute this information yet, so the question remains, did SWT knowingly start a circuit that they knew likely wouldn’t pan out? Still so many questions, things aren’t nearly over even with Alan’s statement and statements that refute his interpretation of events.
the TOs talking right now probably don't know too much about the status of SWT and aren't commenting on that. most of what they're commenting on is Alan's behavior, which they all have firsthand experience with, as well as ken's behavior. apparently, the hotel booking thing has been found as false.
@Exlordin the Dude I’m not sure that’s entirely applicable. I don’t know this but I think SWT last year would have been running without a license, and given that they never mingled with Nintendo they likely saved themselves a large headache. That’s the difference this year, assuming that what we’ve heard is true, they tried to get a license in too short of a time frame and announced the tournament before they should have, which is ultimately why this problem came up in the first place. If they hadn’t tried to get a license from Nintendo they might have been able to avoid being “shut down” by Nintendo. I put shut down in quotes because we still don’t know why Nintendo seemingly gave mixed signals for sure. Point being, by trying to work with Nintendo they could have knowingly endangered their tournament and that’s where my point comes from.
I think its a little unfair to say Alan is a newcomer with no further explanation. AFAIK the guy has been part of the community for like a decade. He was just a newcomer to the major TO clique.
I think what we need to hear is 1. What’s consistent across the information we got 2. What statements contradict one another 3. A time line of events So everything can be digested because right now, I’m confused and I’m probably not alone in this feeling
Yeahh hopefully HBox will make a follow-up video to this, possibly one similar to his very recent Timeline video but it doesn't have to be a timeline video. Just any follow-up video in general which sums everything up nicely.
I can see how Alan sees himself as the good guy. He probably believed that he could pull competitive Smash out of the "cold war" with Nintendo, how he could get everyone licenses, sponsors, 'a safe future', and that he wasn't just doing it for himself to some extent. And probably to him a lot of other people (TOs, Melee) were annoying, unpragmatic traditionalists, who were jeopardizing this future by not wanting to change, not moving with him, "stonewalling" to keep Smash in its gray area, etc.. And I can definitely see how he came off as a complete bastard during much of this, being annoying to those who he didn't have much respect for anyway. And he probably is at least somewhat of a power-hungry ahole (CEO). A lot of the stuff on Twitter was mud-slinging and anecdotal character evidence, but both sides said they had been keeping quiet about all of this to not escalate anything. But what ended up breaking things was the SWT cancellation. The organizers canned it, pointed fingers at Nintendo, and Nintendo pointed back. I still want to know what happened. I feel like it was probably just Nintendo being deliberately nebulous (sinister/threatening) and SWT having a knee-jerk response that caused tensions to boil over.
I don't understand how he could possibly be the broker of licensing legally(since he doesn't even technically legally work for Nintendo how could he possibly have such an authority over Nintendo licensing it doesn't add up ). But I could believe that he proudly referred to himself as that at some point
SWT Cancelation: First response DrAlan's statement: 1 week later BTS leadership, reading everything by March 2022: "I am four parallel universes ahead of you."
This really seems like there is no “mafia” and its just a snowball of misunderstanding and poor communication. It seems like Alan thought he knew more about running events than he did and was just excited about turning smash into a tier 1 esports. It seems like BTS mainly read between the lines too hard because of fear that nintendo has caused in the community in the past. It seems like bts saw nintendo joining the community as a bad omen and ended up creating a self fulfilling destiny
I think what happened here was that there was miscommunication, Alan sucks at phrasing things right and being a CEO, It also didn't seem like he had the best interest for melee players (I'm not a melee fan either but c'mon), he didn't fully understand the predicament he was putting on Ken and BTS. Ken did nothing wrong, Alan should've gotten the hint that they were not interested even if they could make huge profits (but they didn't want to put all their years of hard work down the drain to join Panda). Idk tbh.. I feel like I need to hear more from SWT and GMIR tbh. This isn't looking good for Alan though, and he didn't need to write a 30+ page essay to get his point across -_-
I always had a feeling about Alan... Something about him just seemed off. As terrible as this entire situation was, I didn't feel as surprised as I probably should have. It seemed like something Alan would do.
The smash community loses here. They as a whole should not have reacted the way they did, and the fact that all of this was done in the public eye just ensures that Nintendo will have more of a reason to shut down Smash tournaments. And sad to say, they are right to. We really crapped the bed on how we reacted here. Alan is probably looking at this from a business perspective and keeping the community going for a long time, having a one person pass through who knows everyone is probably for the best, rather than having a bunch of grassroots pop ups that Nintendo can't control, but can have their public perspective swayed by. The TO's are scared, and that's understandable, but there should have been more communication/collaboration. There's room for both sides to be right, but have majorly miscommunicated with each other. Honestly, the real problem here is that initial Kotaku article. SWT should not have brought Panda's name into this without alot of hard evidence. They connected a vague dot and left everyone else to infer what happened for themselves, which lead to an unnecessary witch hunt and a massive community dramastorm. People then did what people do, which was brought out the worst in each other, and now 2023 is up in the air for smash events. Congratulations to us all, we all lose.
I just want fans to have fun and compete for the love and for the People. Money ruins everything. Yes some need the cash but I think when Smash fans were left to themselves it was better project m being allowed in big tournaments, being able to twitch stream PM, I think Nintendo won't understand the Fandom ever so they should just leave us alone
If we dont get licensed nintendo will continue to bully us. We were never left alone. Its either we get licensed or every major is a liability to the people hosting them. Cuz nintendo can just cancel them at any time
money is 100% what ruined PM on all fronts. nintendo is worried it loses them money because of piracy, they tell twitch to not allow it or else so twitch talks to vgbc and tells them not to stream it or they get their partnership removed and lose money (which also would lose twitch money). fearing that people will be sued, a couple of people on the PM dev team shut the entire project down without telling anyone else and move on to a different project where they can actually make money. meanwhile, you just think about how nintendo could have actively made money on the scene if they just came up with an official way to play PM, let people have fun with it, helped host events that the community wanted to run, but like disney they're also so worried about their brand being sullied they just couldn't do it.
@@SharonisCarin321 they are quite literally the disney of japan. they have their own little spot at a theme park, they hate when people "abuse" their IPs, and they have lobbied for the government to make laws that benefit them.
"I typed a transcript of the call to LD, in fact here's a screenshot of that" *posts a screenshot in which he basically only says "Bruh he was threatening us about 2023"* How is this man being taken seriously when he says one thing and immediately contradicts it in the same post???? He didn't say what the threats were, he didn't give a back and forth recap of it, just said "He was threatening us" and left it.
Also the Panda statement never said a WORD about Alan "threatening" anyone. It said he spoke in a way that was, and I quote (I have it open right now), "He spoke in a manner which did not reflect either guidance from Nintendo or our own standards", which could EASILY be referring to when he yelled, which he owned up to in his own statement.
@@Daionor How is yelling "Why won't you work with me?" not a threat, much less insinuating that if BTS didn't sell Panda the broadcasting rights that Nintendo would come after them? Even in Alan's own statement it was clear BTS didn't want to work with him, but he was still aggressively pitching to them. In normal businesses do you know what happens when people don't want to work with you? You walk away. Panda needed the broadcasting rights. BTS didn't need to deal with Panda. So leveraging Nintendo in that argument is 100% a 'if you don't work with me, it'd sure be a shame' kind of threat.
I’m still stuck on what I think is the big question here. Why was SWT canceled/denied a license? Was it really health protocol? Is gimr actually black listed? And if he is, why did Allen know about that and nobody else???
So if you think about the chain of events, SWT was reached out to by Nintendo. Nintendo kept them dangling for months and then told them some arbitrary reason with no recourse. That is business legalese especially for Japanese companies as screw you. If Nintendo knew the licensing takes years then there was no way for SWT to get licensed for 2023, much less 2022. So what probably happened is they wanted to keep their thumb on it and ultimately decided to go with Panda because they would bend over backwards more or because Alan had some inside info. Japanese companies both go by face culture and a read between the lines way of communication. They don't want to say something that will get them backlash or be too direct, but if you go against what they want they will totally bitchslap you with everything they have available.
Watching the smash scene over recent years is like watching a really old flower try to grow in the middle of a busy street. I'm starting to think it's not meant to be...
Ken Hotbid Chen has been a pillar in multiple communities i was lucky to be a small part of. During my sc2 years Ken was an integral part of the community and was the one to introduce me to the smash scene (im sure along with many others) when he posted the Smash Doc on the Team Liquid forums when it dropped all those years ago. I pray im able to be healthy enough again one day to follow the example Ken has set in multiple communities that I care deeply about and be able to contribute and give back to the communities that have given me so much.
It’s weird to me that a very reiterated idea is that people in close contact with Alan on a personal level thought he was a good person, but in business matters he’s suddenly the shittiest person and business man possible. All so strange that someone can be like that. Perhaps because he exists in some delusion that what he’s doing is necessary for the community when in reality he was acting in his own interest all along.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Someone can be a good person and a ruthless business man by believing whole heartedly in their business. He may have been thinking "Yes. Finally we have Nintendo support. Now if I can just do some business deals, we can get more tournaments under this umbrella and really grow the official scene" and tried to make deals, perhaps a bit too forcefully, to help his plan along. It doesn't excuse his behavior, but it can explain how it happened.
i've got friends who work with another one of my friend's girlfriend, and they don't like her at all, but when she's around the house she's really really cool and i find to be a pretty nice person (perhaps even too nice). someone can be a different person in a different environment. i'm sure you have had two different groups of friends that you act completely differently around.
it seems like all of this started because a guy wanted nintendo to get more involved with the smash community and nintendo was interested in that, but knowing what we all know about nintendo it is likely they wouldn't have let TOs, especially ones using things like Slippi/UCF or even running games like PM, run the tournaments the way they wanted to. not to mention needing to keep things "family friendly" due to the rating of the game. from the history of nintendo working with smash, they haven't really benefitted anyone, so why would we want to work with them anymore? alan doesn't understand this but had already essentially dug a hole too deep to nintendo HQ, so he knew that these other events were going to be shut down or at least something similar to being shut down. i think alan meant well initially, but lacked the experience with and knowledge of the community and history of smash, so the wrong decision was made on his part and he's now going full panic mode (literally had a panic attack) and burning the bridges to the community so he doesn't have to deal with it anymore while also trying to get revenge on the people who sparked the drama against him in the first place.
I get the impression he wanted the ultimate scene to get the same bucks across the board as the proper fighters/etc. Problem is the TOs/etc in the scene didn't want the baggage associated (which may involve having to remove popular but undesirable to Nintendo/greater public eyes players)
@@Fishman465 oh yeah i'm just saying that would be an example of what would happen if nintendo was the one calling the shots at every single tournament lol
If crazy hand wanted to bring millions of dollars worth of sponsors into the smash scene and grow actual full time careers, then sure that was too crazy for a stupid community who wants to stay poor and not grow into a T1 esport
Ultimately they will need to work with Nintendo sooner or later, it's inevitable if the scene ever wants to grow more. 5 major sponsor deals in 5 months would be monumentally greater than 1 papa John's deal. I respect what Alan was aiming for truly, he had a goal and was held down by hate for Nintendo, which isn't unwarranted, but definitely not needed when trying to grow in 2023
This is just a story of what people on the internet would call “selling out” for years the entire community has been complaining about no support from Nintendo and how players don’t make enough money. The path to the big bucks would be partnering with Nintendo and growing the scene using the plethora of benefits that come with company support. The problem is demographics Nintendo needs events to be clean and follow their company standards because if Nintendo is going to put their name on something they don’t want it to tarnish their reputation. They have so much more to loose than what can be gained revenue wise from running these events. What Allen did was work hard over several years to get licensing for panda this directly transferred to the better deals panda could offer for the 2023. This benefit however comes with oversight and terms from Nintendo and most likely those terms did not align with what the smash community is today. No one was going to change current way they run their tournaments because some outsider wanted to make everyone more money, because if more money meant losing the soul of the game then it’s not worth it. This model is dependent on growth and for it to have a chance to work it needed everyone to be on board. Like it or not melee does not have the same reach or growth potential and ultimate so in this model it would need to be cut. IMO that is a dick move considering melee is more than just a game. Being tired of scrounging for sponsors and noticing how inherently flawed it is to run an org against the main IP holders wishes, Allen got the license from Nintendo to begin this shift to the main stream. But for this to work he would need the entire community, because Allen does not look at smash the same way the tournament organizers do it seams he never understood why they would be against this shift. Not getting though to them he approached it another way, to emphasize the importance of his license and get people on board he decided to make statements that are indirectly threatening. I could see how this can be seen as a threat but it is a very common business tactic think of it like an insurance sales man bringing up how valuable your house is. This approach did not work because you are dealing with a community built with a foundation of passion, tradition, and the constant threat of being shut down at any time. Seeing that this approach did not work he had to look deeper into a way that would make everyone happy and found loopholes in the licensing agreement that were better for all tournament organizations. The problem is the first approach burned bridges and strong arming the top dog “summit” is a great way to burn bridges no one knows exactly what happened in that second meeting except the people in it,everyone one else will forever have a biased report of what happened. I suspect both sides were at fault but Allen needs to understand no means no instead of presenting an offer you think of as an offer they can’t refuse come back to them later with an offer they can’t refuse. Ken is a very passionate guy and I suspect Allen Rubbed him the wrong way no matter what he said or did afterwords would make him change his mind because this is a hobby not business and frankly a lot of this can be seen as childish. With pandas current monopoly over Nintendo licenses in this new model you would have to give they keys to all of smash to panda until other organizations get their licenses. Given that other organizations could also go through the very long processes of getting licensed. The problem there in lies with change the door for change had been opened and with someone in the market making better offers you would also have to change to complete. Because no one else planned to do that several past activities could cause obtaining a license from Nintendo to be very difficult. To that portion of companies panda and other organizations with licenses would be the beneficiaries of over a decade of hard work, they are the reason the sene is so big. To conclude you can’t have your cake and eat it to, if you want to make smash as profitable as League of legends you need to loose a lot of what makes the smash community the smash community. It is obvious this change is not wanted to stop complaining about the profitability of smash you have lost the right to if you refuse to play by the same rules other competitive games play by. I love smash the way it is but I also want to see my favorite players and organizations make what they deserve and the way things are looking, I don’t see that happening any time soon. Catch 22 f-ed no matter how you put it.
What a stupid saying "You can't have your cake and eat it too". And why the fuck not. Anyone using this saying rubs me the wrong way. If you can't EAT CAKE then why the fk would you want the cake in the first place!??? What kind of backwards shit is this? You work towards the cake so that YOU CAN EAT IT! That's why you want the cake. Cause it's good and it tastes great. On the other hand, what's the fkin point of having a cake if YOU CAN'T EAT it!??? Apply this to real world circumstances and all hell breaks loose. "You can't have a great job and get paid for it too". Then why work hard to get that job in the first place!?? "You can't have a great car and drive it too". Then what's the point of having the car in the first place!?? I swear this is the most idiotic saying anyone's come up with to date. THE most single idiotic saying in 2022.
You know what’s kind of crazy, Alan could have gotten away with it. If SWT was never shut down, he probably would have gotten the keys. Because a lot of this stuff has been known for months, but only came out because SWT got canceled. If the tournaments had gone as planned, Nintendo would start licensing all the major tournaments. And then boom Alan holds the power to control the whole competitive scene. Think about this; the biggest tournaments of all time getting canceled, in the long run, was probably better for the smash community. Crazy how shit works out.
After hearing a bit about Alan, he immediately gave me savior-complex vibes. Dude comes in out of nowhere and basically tries to make himself the savior of smash while trying to doubt everyone else’s efforts to do the same. To him, ONLY HE can make a successful and groundbreaking smash tournament, not any of the TOS or dedicated community members of SWT or really any tournaments and circuits.
@@Atlas_DXUlt you definitely didn’t read the whole statement stop the cap lmfao, you had a grown man read to you the statement and made him make opinions for you
Over 30 pages but not a lot of concrete evidence from Alan. Not many receipts at all from him. It's like 6 people's words vs 1 at this point. If the TO's come out with receipts then Alan is finished.
An outsider's takeaway from the Smash drama. 1) Nintendo is the Combine, alien and inscrutable 2) Alan is/was Wallace Breen, attempting to be the bridge between Nintendo and Smash players 3) Doxing is terrible, don't do it
So after all the digging and hearing what he said/she said/they said/YO MAMA said. All I'm getting is that Alan was on some form of powertrip and cost the community two game changing tournaments. _Savior of Smash my asshole!_
Attempt to make sense of everything: BTS was taking share away from VGBC. VGBC decides to start an unlicensed circuit, SWT, to gain some momentum back. Panda had been trying to get a circuit going for a few years, but was stuck in red tape because they chose to get it officially licensed. After 4 years of waiting, Nintendo says yes to Panda. Alan is excited at his major breakthrough and approaches TOs, who mostly either decline politely or completely ignore him for months. He tries again and again, but nobody is interested in his opportunity. They don’t know him, they don’t need him. Except they need Nintendo, who presumably gave Panda the license because somewhere along the way they realized that the time for unlicensed tournaments/streaming Etc, has to end. Alan knows this, having talked to Nintendo for 4 years. The TOs don’t want to hear it. He is not exactly threatening, just relaying what he knows to be true from Nintendo - that SWT will be shut down, as will other unlicensed tournaments. He keeps telling them to get on board, and they have no benefit in it, except to avoid Nintendo shutting them down, so they felt strong-armed and threatened, blaming Panda. Meanwhile Panda stood to benefit from being the first licensee and gate-keeper. The transition to licensed tournaments was supposed to all happen quietly in 2023, except VGBC got wind of it and went straight to Nintendo for clarification. If licensing Was required, SWT Had no Future. Nintendo couldn’t officially say it was fine to continue unlicensed, because they intended to require licensing starting in 2023 and a statement on that would look terrible if there policy in a month is completely different. They also didn’t directly tell them the event would be canceled, because they had no intention of canceling it. VGBC doesn’t know at that point if SWTC 2022 Is getting canceled or not because Nintendo won’t comment…and they can’t afford to take that chance financially. They cancel, and blame Panda for causing their downfall, which is only partially true. It does seem to be Nintendo’s fault for deciding that tournaments should be licensed, and then not telling anyone, and then issuing exactly one license giving one organization/person way too much power. While Alan has been painted a villain, it appears that he was just in the (un)lucky place to get the first license and was trying to capitalize on that advantage. VGBC, meanwhile, fast-tracked an international circuit, knowing full well that it would be shutdown if they weren’t able To obtain a license. They also know that the backlash From this might Just be enough to for Nintendo to have a change of heart from forcing licenses. This one act of canceling the SWT may just bankrupt Panda, nearly bankrupt VGBC, and save the entire Smash scene from Nintendo’s control.
21:15 - "I just don't believe in melee" And that's why the players in the community didn't like Alan. Makes sense now. If true and Alan really didn't see a potential for Melee moving forward (also may be pressure from Nintendo to not feature modded versions of Super Smash Brothers: Melee in broadcasts and events) that would have turned off hardcore smash players and pose a risk to anyone partnering the Panda.
Modded Melee mostly involves changing numerical values to eliminate controller dependency, the majority of which could probably be done with an hacking device like an Action Replay, which does not store a modified ROM, making it not IP infringement in the US according to Galoob v. Nintendo of America.
Slippi is literally gecko codes and a launcher, it's not a modified ROM and requires a vanilla iso of melee to play. UCF and frozen stadium are also gecko codes. Gecko codes are basically the same thing as an action replay.
@@commscan314 sure but that’s not what Project M is. I think it best to define my terms, when I think modded Melee I’m thinking of Project M and the online functionality added to Melee and emulation on PC for some.
And as usual, the community has to be the one to suffer as a result of incompetence. Honestly idk why we even try anymore. Let’s just all play modded smash bros only and die in a blazing glory at this rate: Smash Remix, Project M, Project+, HewDraw Remix. I hate this community being bound by these old, out of touch idiots who just can’t accept that they’re not providing what we want.
Everytime I even look at getting into competitive Smash, I keep seeing things like this that just push me away, and it doesn’t help that my favorite Smash games just so happen to be the modded ones.
I wouldn't be worried about what ever beef they got with each other. Instead I would be worried about the fact that these guys make a lot of money off of the backs of the professional players that attend the events. So while you guys pour your guts out on the game floor and barely get anything for it, they get incredibly rich and buy mansions and villas and sports cars. I think the only people that should own the broadcasting rights are the pro players. It's a joke at this point really. You make the e-sport happen and without you there would be no e-sport. So why should these orgs get everything while you guys get what? 50k? 100k? 200k on the best tournament? While they get many, MANY millions in the bank, EVERY tournament!
Uh oh, looks like Alan reminded Nintendo they can make money with broadcast rights on their game. Do any of these people have any receipts for what they are saying or is it all "he said she said"?
i feel like the stuff that Alan did was cuss Nintendo said to, and now that there is an uproar Nintendo made him the fall guy. If Nintendo can not control it, they will shut it down HARD.
Not sure what all to think, but if I've gathered anything it is that Dr. Alan didn't believe in melee and apparently denied Kodorin a spot on panda because he didn't believe in melee which is enough to make me dislike him.
But now that alan is gone, who's gonna stop nintendo? If panda is completely gone, Nintendo could just shut down every event, and honestly, with how people habe been reacting to this with doxxing and shit, i wouldn't blame them. But also, would love to actually get those calls as proof of what really happened
How did we stray so far from happy feet...wombo combo...
That wasn't Falco...
oh...
unplug yo controller dawg......
Because there is money in broadcast rights. Licensed tournies get more major sponsors for ads, which means more money. If panda pays Nintendo for legal rights to air the game, Nintendo will seek payment and permission from everyone else. No different than a tournament that pays cash for first place, you play the game well and you get big money. Onky dIff is Alan is playing business and not smash. Diff game same goals.
@@BlazingHawk19 damn son...
All these parties sitting together and arguing live should be a side event at Ludwig's
salty suite match between gimr and alan
put ‘em all in the ring
@@beardalaxy lmfaoooo
Phoenix Wright's Up air OP!
Ace attorney music and evertythang
Thank you for keeping the community updated on this situation! We love you
🤓
@@Quinners08Ratio
@@CloaxHere you're gay
@@CloaxHere I’ve been seeing « ratio » a lot recently. Can you please explain this to a confused millennial?
@@CloaxHere 🤓
The fact that his idea was to push Ultimate and ditch melee finally tells me why Nintendo sided with him lmao
guaranteed dot connect
I don't even play Smash, but this is crazy to keep hearing about. I'm sorry this happened to your tournament scene guys.
I can understand
Ultimate got boring to play very fast
I think the TLDR is spot on. Alan wanted to "legitimize" smash ultimate and bring it mainstream, he sold Nintendo a vision that he could single-handedly bring everyone together under one roof and enable Nintendo to keep a close eye on their IP (the most important thing to Nintendo).
Nintendo wanted to use Panda to connect with the community as it's easier for a corporation to monitor one relationship as opposed to multiple. Nintendo's historical lack of community engagement prevented necessary communication with other TO's and combined with the absence of transparency of what he wanted to do with Panda drove Alan into a corner, and he became desperate.
I give it 2 years before Nintendo trusts another org with licensing rights again. They're tough cookies, and with the PR backlash even tougher.
very true. Never forget that Nintendo Of Japan (especially the Japan Division being the boss over NoA and NoE) cares more about control than Money.
I am referring to Matpat and his Game theory Video as to why Nintendo Bought the animation company and talent agency called Dynamo Pictures (now being rebrabded as Nintendo Pictures).
Imo none of this shit even really matters. Somehow a conversation about whether Nintendo and panda shut down swt became about if dr Alan is a bad guy or not lol, everything we’ve seen implies that there was probably some miscommunication or smth but at the very least panda(and Alan) had nothing to do with that, and as usual people move the goal posts further in order to try and justify their witch hunt
@Hungrybox Pin this!
@@RyokoEarth stan harder
@@nathanlevesque7812 Stan who?? Bruh I didn’t even know who Alan was before all this drama lol I watch smash for the players not to learn the names of esports ceos. Maybe u should Stan less
Jesus CHRIST you editors are fast, keep up the incredible work, hbox's team
"It was never about the money, Smash Community, it's about Drive it's about Power, we Stay Hungry, we Devour the entire Smash Community" - Dr. Alan
As a community member of both Starcraft and Dota, I can confirm: Everybody loves HotBid. There has never been any bad blood towards him by anybody.
i like how all of this can be prevented if nintendo just let people play their games competitively.
Yup, If Nintendo had more or less interactions with the community this wouldn't have happened. More interactions being sponsoring their own circuit. Less interactions being letting the community do their thing.
THIS
I think people don't understand why it's impossible for Nintendo to allow smash tournaments while Pokemon, Splatoon and others get theirs, it's because Smash contains far too many IPs that requires official permissions. Just Sora alone is in bureaucratic hell trying to deal with Disney and SquareEnix, then there's BandaiNamco, Capcom, Platinum etc. to deal with, it's impossible to get all of them to agree just trying to deal with the sheer amount of paperwork and licensing fees.
This is why Nintendo can only turn a blind eye and say non answers, saying they can't support and also can't license, but also can't say they won't allow, they are stuck in legal hell.
@@GuyWithAnAmazingHat This has happened since Melee which doesn't even contain any Non-Nintendo-related IPs so that's a moot point
@@ScarletMomiji Melee was so long ago, it doesn't seem unreasonable that the company values would change, especially since it's changed leadership.
So in between me watching the "there will never be a smash player like hungry box" emp video and moist criticals coverage on smash drama,I get recommend your channel. Love it.
Alan clearly did mean to have a powerful position, but these are from the TOs he initially reached out to. I would like to hear from the TOs of the tournaments that joined Panda Cup later. What were the negotiations like for that? It seems like Panda majorly changed course on what they were doing later. Alan's bad practices seemed to be in those first few weeks in March/April, but idk if that reflects on the rest of Panda. By all accounts Nintendo actually didn't like Alan's initial approach at all
It can't get any better when he opened with 'SWT going down, submit to me'
changeing corse because people wouldn't submit doenst make it better it would make it settled as bad. that just means if they submitted he would have that power and those practices would of increased without change at all.he didnt get better out of choice he lost and had to go to a diffrent plan.
20:31 - In one call, it was confirmed that that he was to be the license broker for the whole scene. This has the potential to be really, really bad for everyone. That means eventually, if he wanted to, you'd have to be part of Panda Cup to get a license. One person having the keys.
I 100% get the concern. However, companies hate dealing with multiple people and organizers when it comes to their brands. It would make total sense for Nintendo to just have to deal with one person and delegate the organization efforts. From Boback's tweets it appears he didn't like dealing with Alan and didn't trust him to be "the guy" they would need to report to. This may be due to how Alan carried himself in these calls...dunno, we weren't on the zoom call.
I understand the broader concern about a "monopoly" when it comes to Panda being the license distributor but for simplicity sake someone has to be. Panda seems like the only one who did the work to secure the licenses.
I guess I'm just looking at this from a managerial stand point, what Nintendo saw in Panda to run the whole thing makes complete business sense to me. Panda had the players, the internal infrastructure, legal departments and business departments, a corporate backing...it seemed like the perfect partner.
Also, can we talk about that Slack message in March. I see that Ken is labeling as they are predicting the fallout from Alan's actions...but could it also be seen as both LD and Ken plotting? I mean, I'm not completely convinced by my own reasoning on that since Alan said he could also predict how things could play out...but in court a lawyer could probably make a case that that Slack message was LD and Ken plotting how the events would play out.
The thing is, while it’d be nice if Nintendo handed out licenses, most people would rather Nintendo not be involved at all, because every time people tried in the past has only shown a Nintendo that hates the entire scene.
The desire for centralization is real, but it was sus how Ken and LD knew such a result... and that knowledge is tempting.
And the profound dislike was there for Panda so it wasn't unthinkable that they might have crashed SWT just so Alan/Panda gets undone. In terms of being rid of Alan, they've won if they were aiming for it
@@Appletank8 In my opinion, Nintendo licensing is fine, it's just that Nintendo itself would be responsible for gathering up enough majors and supermajors along with BTS to form a board for the selection of new groups to add to the licensing program.
Boback just couldn't fathom the idea of going back to work for a boss again lol
You could see the hurt in HBox's eyes at the 21:12 mark from hearing that testimony of what Alan said about Melee... Yeah, HBox is the cop... Book'em Hungry...
this is how nintendo has always felt about melee and CERTAINLY about project m. so hearing someone who was working with nintendo and trying to bring in all these other TOs having the same sentiment while also trying to be a champion of the community at large is pretty shitty.
I mean yeah melee is dirt old
@@ohcomeon1111 and yet it plays better than literally all of its competition.
@@yimwee2401 Melee is cool and all, but be realistic. Ultimate is by far a more functionally stable game than melee could ever be. And that's not just bais, that's just a basic understanding that the modern advancements in newer games will always be superior when compared to older titles.
@@yimwee2401 bro I've played melee since it was first released back in the day and I can tell you no it does not play better
the part where alan says he doesn't believe in melee, that's how you know he's the anime villain here
What I think would be the most valuable of a statement right now would actually be a *former* Nintendo employee.
By being former, they could likely be more open and expressive about Nintendo's actions within the Smash scene. This could help build a lot of context on Nintendo's front. It could also potentially help build more clarity to Nintendo's thoughts on Alan, VGBC, etc beyond "We COULD work with them".
This is a pipe dream though.
Kamp Koji, an Ex-Nintendo guy has been covering this actually.
This is a tale as old as time. A smart visionary begins a successful plan. A successful visionary shows the plan to others but makes the mistake of believing others to see the world similar to the way they see it (mostly with logic and very little feeling). Other people don't listen to the logic. The visionary gets frustrated at how they could be so stupid. The others (having a worldview dominated by feelings) latch onto the comments the frustrated visionary made and little else. The others now reinforce with each other the same feeling-based worldview.
Here's what both parties see:
Alan's view: The community as a whole benefits if we become ultimate centered and focus on work with Nintendo that I worked hard to secure. If our goal is to get as many people as possible playing and enjoying smash, we have to do this. (Others proceed to simply say no for no logical reason). Alan then warns them about what he's afraid will happen to the community if they don't go along with him.
Others' view: Alan comes in with Nintendo backing him and tells them they should be doing things differently. Alan expects them to risk their business by quickly changing their typical way of operating. They say no because they aren't going to randomly change for a random dude. Alan then threatens them.
Each thing here is Alan's actions and views cross-referenced with how it looked to most people. I know this because I think much more like Alan and I've had to slowly learn how blunt and rude I seem for simply explaining logical facts (from my point of view). This whole outbreak looks like exactly the things that happened to me
@@TakumiJoyconBoyz who is kamp koji?
@@LHSMeleeClub You can type it into youtube. He has videos covering this. He used to work at Nintendo a while back. He even talks about stuff like the reason why Nintendo tried to make EVO drop Melee.
I figured I'd add to this that Kit & Krysta who are also ex Nintendo employees also added context to this from their PoV.
The "He said, she haid" all-time high at the moment. Usually in these cases the truth falls between both sides so I definitely don't think Alan intended actual sabotage since he'd have realised this level of backlash would be inevitable but apparently came across that way. Same with SWT intentionally planning to cancel their event to scapegoat Panda feels really counterintuitive.
Sadly with multiple proven lies alan told in his document such as him saying no hotel bookings were made when they were and verified to be. It make the situation more of a he said -she said, but one of them is known to tell lies
No dude, everyone is clear that Alan didn't intend sabotage. but he's an arrogant prick that wanted to push his vision down everyone's throats. the guy is so high in the clouds he doesn't even realize how this sabotages all the hard work everyone put in to build the community and variety. not to mention the ridiculous deals he wanted to make with the TO's. I believe he genuinely thinks he deserves the absurd things he asked from them.
and if that part about him holding the keys is true, that makes it 1000 times worse than it already is.
@@LordKingler302 Yeah no doubt Alan seems to have a manipulative personality by trait from what he's said unfortunately but the intial thought of him intentionally sabotaging just never made sense to me, the aim for a power play and his personality giving off the idea he was threatening them feels real.
@@ghosthunter0950 Not intially, many were full on thinking he tried strong-arming them to get canned. Now it just seems he was out of his filed when trying to approach TOs expecting them to be easily receptive.
@@kingdomcomesuperman3669 Yeah it def felt like he honestly wanted to help the smash scene , it's just that in his vision of "Help" He had to be king lol
9:26 the amount of people that need to hear this is rather astounding
Where are these people who don't agree with these basic values, exactly? There are always fringe nutjobs in every community, political faction, etc. But now the behavior of an infinitesimal minority is exaggerated and used as a ploy for sympathy and cover from people who have done legitimately reprehensible things or made significant mistakes.
BUP!
I have a dream where one day nobody decides to give out personal information to settle a dispute with someone they hate
It's really crazy how many people will legitimately defend this as okay.
My personal interpretation of this whole thing:
1) Alan has a bit of a hero complex.
2) I think he honestly thought that his vision for the Panda Cup what was best for the Smash community, but instead of of working with everyone to get their opinion on what to do he tried to force his vision on everyone.
3) Alan was 100% in the wrong but not because of greed, just because of arrogance and lack of wisdom.
4) And Nintendo REALLLLY didn't help the situation.
9:20 It's sad when I see "It's not he-said-she-said, it's they-said and that makes them right" even though it is physically dangerous to defend Alan
It almost sounds like Nintendo didn't background check Alan/Panda or read whatever portfolio he had.
Having no connection to other TOs and little-known major tourney signing on was big RED FLAG.
Which is why to me it sounds suspicious. Would Nintendo really do something like that? I mean maybe
I can back kodorin never lying about anything. I've known him for 10ish years when he used to play TF2 and he was one of the most upstanding guys in the community.
and yet i think this whole situation isn't done yet. we still have lots of things to go through, and more things to be revealed, i think.
Most silliest smash community moment
You seriously underestimate the smash community if you think this is the silliest it can get.
At least no kids are involved
@@chickenm.2890 so long as ppl like Nairo stay banned
Ayo Mr. Yeet, t
here's a title for ya
yeah it's another L after the me too debacle
The keys are in a carrot pie that is being eaten by a snake using a stick...I'm struggling to keep up.
My take away from all this:
1. Alan was not responsible for SWT getting cancelled, he simply predicted that they won't get the license in time based on his own experience with nintendo and people interpreted that warning as a threat.
2. Nintendo didn't cancel SWT, they simply didn't give them a license. They still could've run it without a license but that would've been too expensive (that's at least how I understood it). That's generally how I understand nintendo, they don't care about our events anymore (unless we use mods, then they will take us down) but they won't give us licenses. So we can still run our events, we just cannot expect support from nintendo.
3. Alan wanted to make a deal with BTS but BTS didn't want to make a deal with Panda. But Alan kept pressing on and pissing them off. So it's basically a "read the room Alan" moment.
4. Panda is now throwing Alan under the bus to save their own skin. Understandable though a little mean-spirited ngl.
Very unfortunate situation, but imo SWT made a very morally questionable thing with their mentioning of Panda and specifically Alan in their original post. It basically framed them (him) as the villain of the whole situation which seems very unfair to me.
Also, I find the Alan vs Hotbids thing ironic because I feel like the smash community has the same relationship with nintendo. We keep pestering nintendo about working together with us and they keep saying "no", in the same manner Alan kept pestering BTS to work with them and them continuously saying "no". Just like Alan should've stopped trying to persuade BTS to work with them, maybe we should stop trying to persuade nintendo to work with us.
I think your recap perfectly states it all except point 4. I don't believe panda threw Alan under the bus but rather be stepped down because of how quickly the community turned on him before even hearing his statement and he no longer wants any part of it.
I also really like your analogy of hotbids vs Alan and the community vs Nintendo. Feels spot on.
@@jeffciprian4211 Yeah I don't doubt that Alan was okay with leaving after all that, but I've read tweets from a Panda employee now coming out saying that they never liked Alan to begin with or saying stuff like "Alan never believed in melee", which I have the suspicion that it's partly staged or at least exaggerated to create a distance between Panda and Alan. I don't doubt that Alan made a lot of mistakes but he also did a lot of good for the scene and its players. Just seems unfair to me to beat down on him now that everyone is against him.
Sounds like a power play to try and ignore TO concerns and convince them to sign on to avoid the possibility of Nintendo interference - at the expense of a downgrade in their careers. Still pretty scummy
Bump🎉😊
Welcome to the world of business. 1 mistake can cost you your lifes work
That Armada impression was actually pretty good 😂
Alan: bUt WHy WoULd i dO sOmEThiNg THat CoUlD bLOw uP iN mY FAcE
Greed, incompetence, recklessness, the unwavering hubris of thinking anyone could be in charge of the entire scene...the only thing that surprises me is how little of this surprised me. Like Panda Cup and SWT approaching a circuit in totally opposite way; licensing as a means to get tournaments vs tournaments in order to have something worth licensing. Alan even had the gall to act like the idea of a circuit was his original divine vision, as if nobody ever had the most obvious thought...of basically just expanding what Summit already did.
Alan is basically Madara from Naruto. His plans were to use the power he had to forcefully unite smash under an iron fist, kind of like the Infinite Tsukuyomi plan
W naruto fan. L Alan hater
I wasn’t expecting to comment but I have to say your Armada impression was spot on 😂 the accent, cadence, and word choice 👍🐬
I think what Alan was trying to hint at was maybe partially true. He knew Nintendo would start shutting down unlicensed events and used that as a bargaining chip. Hopefully Nintendo now sees that the community is tired of their shit and will scorch earth anyone who might be involved in these tournament witch hunts. If they aren't careful they'll find their "licensed" tournaments will be boycotted next.
Think you can boycott the entire scene? 😂
This isn't even he said/she said but this is he said/THEY said. It's Alan's word vs. almost every other tournament organizer in the scene. Note that Alan never acknowledges why the Melee scene is wary of Nintendo - he keeps saying "Smash Scene" as if they are the same thing. Nintendo's been good with Ultimate from the very beginning but has literally everything in their power to stop Melee's growth without chucking out C&Ds. Do you think Alan would have stopped this trend - no he would've continued it. And it's why a lot of TOs, many who have roots in Melee, didn't want to work with him.
This is a tale as old as time. A smart visionary begins a successful plan. A successful visionary shows the plan to others but makes the mistake of believing others to see the world similar to the way they see it (mostly with logic and very little feeling). Other people don't listen to the logic. The visionary gets frustrated at how they could be so stupid. The others (having a worldview dominated by feelings) latch onto the comments the frustrated visionary made and little else. The others now reinforce with each other the same feeling-based worldview.
Here's what both parties see:
Alan's view: The community as a whole benefits if we become ultimate centered and focus on work with Nintendo that I worked hard to secure. If our goal is to get as many people as possible playing and enjoying smash, we have to do this. (Others proceed to simply say no for no logical reason). Alan then warns them about what he's afraid will happen to the community if they don't go along with him.
Others' view: Alan comes in with Nintendo backing him and tells them they should be doing things differently. Alan expects them to risk their business by quickly changing their typical way of operating. They say no because they aren't going to randomly change for a random dude. Alan then threatens them.
Each thing here is Alan's actions and views cross-referenced with how it looked to most people. I know this because I think much more like Alan and I've had to slowly learn how blunt and rude I seem for simply explaining logical facts (from my point of view). This whole outbreak looks like exactly the things that happened to me
You have to remember. Alan is dealing with cold logic and barely affected by nostalgia. As he sees it, either melee and ultimate both die along with the whole smash scene, or they partner with Nintendo and grow the ultimate scene.
As he sees it. People have to choose to kill one game, or two, but nostalgia blinds them.
@@allisthemoist2244 I’d prefer to see the smash scene remain how it is over dropping melee. I don’t even play the game but there are so many people that love that game.
@@willpi6413 that's a fine view, and probably what at least 80% of the people agree with in the community. Alan (almost certainly) didn't see it that way, so I wanted people to understand his perspective. Right or not, he thought that hanging on to melee (according to Alan a less popular game to the public that we would want to expand the scene into) would drag the entire scene into failure.
Because he thinks differently, I want people to understand his mind. I don't know if he was right or not, it'll be a long time before I'd make such a call
@@allisthemoist2244 "Alan is dealing with cold logic and barely affected by nostalgia" except that his logic is not....logical for most people in the Melee scene. Why should they be sacrificed for his vision, when most could care less about Ultimate? That sounds like dictator behavior - sacrificing a population for more money into his "chosen" community. He literally didn't do his research (doesn't know who LD is, Melee's history of Nintendo's backstabbing, how to get broadcasting rights), tried to position Panda as the sole arbiter of the esport, and then is frustrated by his own incompetence with communication. Maybe if he knew he sucked at communicating, he should just let other people communicate. From what JuggleRob said and from many other TOs, they got great help from Panda's teams, so he clearly had many talented and competent employees. This really just smells of an owner being too hands-on in an ecosystem he knew not enough about, with people whose goals did not match his (he wants more money like in other esports, they just want to play without outside interference). Melee isn't propped up by nostalgia, it's propped up by people who just like the game - there's new players every year, some of who weren't even born before the game came out - and their endgoal has nothing to do with money. He should've taken a page out of Golden Guardians to see how an org should work with the community for more synergistic outcomes, rather than his scorched-earth-my-way-or-the-highway approach (which, crazily enough, he shows in his screenshots with other tournament TOs where they accuse him of being threatening and constantly changing his proposals)
Allan even acknowledged everyone he spoke to thought they were threatening them. If everyone you talk to thinks your threatening them…
Is it possible that what they perceived as a threat was simply the truth?
It sounds like Alan knew SWT wasn't getting licensed before the official decision was made and shared information that wasn't his to share.
It's conceivable that he thought he was doing them a favor.
It's also possible that he's ultimately right, that partnering with Nintendo is the only way forward. We may not like it, but Nintendo could effectively end professional Smash as we know it any time they wanted.
That's just the reality until IP laws are changed.
It's suuuuuper unlikely that Nintendo actually told Alan that they were definitely not going to licence the SWT half a year before they told VGBC. Nintendo doesn't generally tell people anything.
This is definitely what happened. Without a doubt in my mind. And the most cringe thing about all this is that not getting a license and getting shut down are 2 different things. There are literally brain dead monkeys in this community and think Alan saying “you might not get a license next year” is him threatening to shut them down, even when Nintendo blatantly, publicly, openly invited SWT to run their championships.
@@holyknightthatpwns If I recall, the implication is that it took Panda 3 years to get a license, so unless SWT offered something exceptionally good to Nintendo to get it in less time, they were not getting it in time for their tour. Alan might have been aggressive, but if others joined Panda, it might have sped up the process or at least given them the okay since Panda DID get the okay from Nintendo.
@@nathanfigueroa2099 Nintendo publicly invited them to run their championships after the event had been shut down, and SWT wasn't going to start back up after they'd already cancelled.
If you read the email they sent to SWT, it very clearly says that Nintendo does not want them to run the event, in almost the exact same wording that they sent to Big House right before they C&D them. If Nintendo hadn't shut down tournaments last minute in the past then it would be reasonable to give them the benefit of the doubt, but given their track record it seems really reasonable to think they were planning on shutting down SWTC
@@1NameGoesHere the general complaint isn't that Nintendo didn't give SWTC a licence, it's that they told them that the time for unlicensed events is over, that they understood the negative PR that would happen with them cancelling SWTC, and then followed up in writing saying that SWTC should not operate without a licence.
One interesting thing about this video is that the outcry from relavent parties on Twitter like TO’s and those who had business discussions with Alan all dispute his claims regarding the verbal conversation he had, his tone, his language, his intent, etc. but they widely ignore his statements regarding SWT perhaps not having the resources to hold the tournament in the first place and knowing that they didn’t have enough time to get a license, therefor putting their tournament in danger. Nobody has seemed to dispute this information yet, so the question remains, did SWT knowingly start a circuit that they knew likely wouldn’t pan out? Still so many questions, things aren’t nearly over even with Alan’s statement and statements that refute his interpretation of events.
the TOs talking right now probably don't know too much about the status of SWT and aren't commenting on that. most of what they're commenting on is Alan's behavior, which they all have firsthand experience with, as well as ken's behavior.
apparently, the hotel booking thing has been found as false.
SWT ran last year with no issue.
@Exlordin the Dude I’m not sure that’s entirely applicable. I don’t know this but I think SWT last year would have been running without a license, and given that they never mingled with Nintendo they likely saved themselves a large headache. That’s the difference this year, assuming that what we’ve heard is true, they tried to get a license in too short of a time frame and announced the tournament before they should have, which is ultimately why this problem came up in the first place. If they hadn’t tried to get a license from Nintendo they might have been able to avoid being “shut down” by Nintendo. I put shut down in quotes because we still don’t know why Nintendo seemingly gave mixed signals for sure. Point being, by trying to work with Nintendo they could have knowingly endangered their tournament and that’s where my point comes from.
I think its a little unfair to say Alan is a newcomer with no further explanation. AFAIK the guy has been part of the community for like a decade. He was just a newcomer to the major TO clique.
you have to admit "nothing but snake like sounds" was a bar
Did anybody else get a Honda x Team Liquid ad on this video? I was shocked lol.
the fact that Hbox knew march 14th was pie day kills me, i haven’t heard of that day since middle school
Well ya know, it’s Pi day not pie day, and Pi starts with 3.14 as in 3/14 as in March 14th so… yeah
I think what we need to hear is
1. What’s consistent across the information we got
2. What statements contradict one another
3. A time line of events
So everything can be digested because right now, I’m confused and I’m probably not alone in this feeling
Yeahh hopefully HBox will make a follow-up video to this, possibly one similar to his very recent Timeline video but it doesn't have to be a timeline video. Just any follow-up video in general which sums everything up nicely.
Go watch mogul mails video from earlier today. He did a great and fair breakdown of everything and everyone.
Lol at the randomly on point Armada impression
With how crazy thus has been, it wouldn't be unlikely.
Fitting how boback used that snake analogy for Alan since that animal is notorious for being responsible for the fall of man
I can see how Alan sees himself as the good guy. He probably believed that he could pull competitive Smash out of the "cold war" with Nintendo, how he could get everyone licenses, sponsors, 'a safe future', and that he wasn't just doing it for himself to some extent. And probably to him a lot of other people (TOs, Melee) were annoying, unpragmatic traditionalists, who were jeopardizing this future by not wanting to change, not moving with him, "stonewalling" to keep Smash in its gray area, etc..
And I can definitely see how he came off as a complete bastard during much of this, being annoying to those who he didn't have much respect for anyway. And he probably is at least somewhat of a power-hungry ahole (CEO).
A lot of the stuff on Twitter was mud-slinging and anecdotal character evidence, but both sides said they had been keeping quiet about all of this to not escalate anything. But what ended up breaking things was the SWT cancellation. The organizers canned it, pointed fingers at Nintendo, and Nintendo pointed back. I still want to know what happened. I feel like it was probably just Nintendo being deliberately nebulous (sinister/threatening) and SWT having a knee-jerk response that caused tensions to boil over.
I don't understand how he could possibly be the broker of licensing legally(since he doesn't even technically legally work for Nintendo how could he possibly have such an authority over Nintendo licensing it doesn't add up ). But I could believe that he proudly referred to himself as that at some point
SWT Cancelation: First response
DrAlan's statement: 1 week later
BTS leadership, reading everything by March 2022: "I am four parallel universes ahead of you."
This really seems like there is no “mafia” and its just a snowball of misunderstanding and poor communication. It seems like Alan thought he knew more about running events than he did and was just excited about turning smash into a tier 1 esports. It seems like BTS mainly read between the lines too hard because of fear that nintendo has caused in the community in the past. It seems like bts saw nintendo joining the community as a bad omen and ended up creating a self fulfilling destiny
Been waiting for this all day
I think what happened here was that there was miscommunication, Alan sucks at phrasing things right and being a CEO, It also didn't seem like he had the best interest for melee players (I'm not a melee fan either but c'mon), he didn't fully understand the predicament he was putting on Ken and BTS. Ken did nothing wrong, Alan should've gotten the hint that they were not interested even if they could make huge profits (but they didn't want to put all their years of hard work down the drain to join Panda). Idk tbh.. I feel like I need to hear more from SWT and GMIR tbh. This isn't looking good for Alan though, and he didn't need to write a 30+ page essay to get his point across -_-
I always had a feeling about Alan... Something about him just seemed off. As terrible as this entire situation was, I didn't feel as surprised as I probably should have. It seemed like something Alan would do.
I read most of these same tweets that HBox was reading earlier, it was fun to hear others take on them
There we go, there's all the information. Was really frustrated with where the other video ended lmao
I'd lovw to get a better response from Nintendo about that
I hope our community can survive this. I’m just glad there are no player infighting
it will. one to off the table that nobody seemed to actually like but just played nice with ain't gonna' change much.
Battle to the death 😎
S U D D E N D E A T H
GO!
You can't kill Melee. Its weathered stuff like this in the past, and it will in the future.
@@GuiltlessGear no I meant ultimate
I love the updates thanks hungrybox
I'm looking forward to it
The smash community loses here. They as a whole should not have reacted the way they did, and the fact that all of this was done in the public eye just ensures that Nintendo will have more of a reason to shut down Smash tournaments. And sad to say, they are right to. We really crapped the bed on how we reacted here.
Alan is probably looking at this from a business perspective and keeping the community going for a long time, having a one person pass through who knows everyone is probably for the best, rather than having a bunch of grassroots pop ups that Nintendo can't control, but can have their public perspective swayed by. The TO's are scared, and that's understandable, but there should have been more communication/collaboration. There's room for both sides to be right, but have majorly miscommunicated with each other.
Honestly, the real problem here is that initial Kotaku article. SWT should not have brought Panda's name into this without alot of hard evidence. They connected a vague dot and left everyone else to infer what happened for themselves, which lead to an unnecessary witch hunt and a massive community dramastorm. People then did what people do, which was brought out the worst in each other, and now 2023 is up in the air for smash events. Congratulations to us all, we all lose.
I just want fans to have fun and compete for the love and for the People.
Money ruins everything.
Yes some need the cash but I think when Smash fans were left to themselves it was better
project m being allowed in big tournaments, being able to twitch stream PM, I think Nintendo won't understand the Fandom ever so they should just leave us alone
If we dont get licensed nintendo will continue to bully us. We were never left alone. Its either we get licensed or every major is a liability to the people hosting them. Cuz nintendo can just cancel them at any time
@@mystraunt2705 Look at all the 64, Melee and PM tournaments being held.
I'm pretty sure not all of them have a license
money is 100% what ruined PM on all fronts. nintendo is worried it loses them money because of piracy, they tell twitch to not allow it or else so twitch talks to vgbc and tells them not to stream it or they get their partnership removed and lose money (which also would lose twitch money). fearing that people will be sued, a couple of people on the PM dev team shut the entire project down without telling anyone else and move on to a different project where they can actually make money.
meanwhile, you just think about how nintendo could have actively made money on the scene if they just came up with an official way to play PM, let people have fun with it, helped host events that the community wanted to run, but like disney they're also so worried about their brand being sullied they just couldn't do it.
@@beardalaxy exactly.
Nintendo is the old fuddy duddy who won't get with the times and thinks their ip is as infallible as the Holy Grail
@@SharonisCarin321 they are quite literally the disney of japan. they have their own little spot at a theme park, they hate when people "abuse" their IPs, and they have lobbied for the government to make laws that benefit them.
"I typed a transcript of the call to LD, in fact here's a screenshot of that"
*posts a screenshot in which he basically only says "Bruh he was threatening us about 2023"*
How is this man being taken seriously when he says one thing and immediately contradicts it in the same post???? He didn't say what the threats were, he didn't give a back and forth recap of it, just said "He was threatening us" and left it.
Also the Panda statement never said a WORD about Alan "threatening" anyone. It said he spoke in a way that was, and I quote (I have it open right now), "He spoke in a manner which did not reflect either guidance from Nintendo or our own standards", which could EASILY be referring to when he yelled, which he owned up to in his own statement.
@@Daionor How is yelling "Why won't you work with me?" not a threat, much less insinuating that if BTS didn't sell Panda the broadcasting rights that Nintendo would come after them? Even in Alan's own statement it was clear BTS didn't want to work with him, but he was still aggressively pitching to them.
In normal businesses do you know what happens when people don't want to work with you? You walk away. Panda needed the broadcasting rights. BTS didn't need to deal with Panda. So leveraging Nintendo in that argument is 100% a 'if you don't work with me, it'd sure be a shame' kind of threat.
I’m still stuck on what I think is the big question here. Why was SWT canceled/denied a license? Was it really health protocol? Is gimr actually black listed? And if he is, why did Allen know about that and nobody else???
GimR lacks the business etiquette
So if you think about the chain of events, SWT was reached out to by Nintendo. Nintendo kept them dangling for months and then told them some arbitrary reason with no recourse. That is business legalese especially for Japanese companies as screw you.
If Nintendo knew the licensing takes years then there was no way for SWT to get licensed for 2023, much less 2022. So what probably happened is they wanted to keep their thumb on it and ultimately decided to go with Panda because they would bend over backwards more or because Alan had some inside info.
Japanese companies both go by face culture and a read between the lines way of communication. They don't want to say something that will get them backlash or be too direct, but if you go against what they want they will totally bitchslap you with everything they have available.
The depression/mental health insurance a ad before the vid XD
The title really should say "The Smash community AND the Melee Community"
What's the difference?
@@alexknight81 Apparently a lot of (foolish) people seem to think they are different communities, yet they are not.
Watching the smash scene over recent years is like watching a really old flower try to grow in the middle of a busy street. I'm starting to think it's not meant to be...
This drama is simultaneously the funniest shit I’ve ever seen and the most unfortunate situation I have ever witnessed.
Im just going to ask how dose water keep boiling around vgbc and gimmer he eather atracts troubble or
Ken Hotbid Chen has been a pillar in multiple communities i was lucky to be a small part of. During my sc2 years Ken was an integral part of the community and was the one to introduce me to the smash scene (im sure along with many others) when he posted the Smash Doc on the Team Liquid forums when it dropped all those years ago. I pray im able to be healthy enough again one day to follow the example Ken has set in multiple communities that I care deeply about and be able to contribute and give back to the communities that have given me so much.
It’s weird to me that a very reiterated idea is that people in close contact with Alan on a personal level thought he was a good person, but in business matters he’s suddenly the shittiest person and business man possible. All so strange that someone can be like that. Perhaps because he exists in some delusion that what he’s doing is necessary for the community when in reality he was acting in his own interest all along.
Some people due to factor may have their altruistic views corrupted by hubris and the taste of power
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Someone can be a good person and a ruthless business man by believing whole heartedly in their business. He may have been thinking "Yes. Finally we have Nintendo support. Now if I can just do some business deals, we can get more tournaments under this umbrella and really grow the official scene" and tried to make deals, perhaps a bit too forcefully, to help his plan along.
It doesn't excuse his behavior, but it can explain how it happened.
i've got friends who work with another one of my friend's girlfriend, and they don't like her at all, but when she's around the house she's really really cool and i find to be a pretty nice person (perhaps even too nice). someone can be a different person in a different environment. i'm sure you have had two different groups of friends that you act completely differently around.
@beardalaxy That’s a very fair point. People completely change who they are depending on their audience or intentions.
Nintendo is justified to not like melee btw but melee should be the only competitive smash scene
it seems like all of this started because a guy wanted nintendo to get more involved with the smash community and nintendo was interested in that, but knowing what we all know about nintendo it is likely they wouldn't have let TOs, especially ones using things like Slippi/UCF or even running games like PM, run the tournaments the way they wanted to. not to mention needing to keep things "family friendly" due to the rating of the game. from the history of nintendo working with smash, they haven't really benefitted anyone, so why would we want to work with them anymore? alan doesn't understand this but had already essentially dug a hole too deep to nintendo HQ, so he knew that these other events were going to be shut down or at least something similar to being shut down.
i think alan meant well initially, but lacked the experience with and knowledge of the community and history of smash, so the wrong decision was made on his part and he's now going full panic mode (literally had a panic attack) and burning the bridges to the community so he doesn't have to deal with it anymore while also trying to get revenge on the people who sparked the drama against him in the first place.
I get the impression he wanted the ultimate scene to get the same bucks across the board as the proper fighters/etc. Problem is the TOs/etc in the scene didn't want the baggage associated (which may involve having to remove popular but undesirable to Nintendo/greater public eyes players)
@@Fishman465 "sorry mango, nintendo doesn't want you to come to smash tournaments anymore because you tell them to fuck off"
@@beardalaxy I didn't mean him, but with what Alan said about Melee, it isn't entirely wrong.
@@Fishman465 oh yeah i'm just saying that would be an example of what would happen if nintendo was the one calling the shots at every single tournament lol
Thank you for rebuking the people who are making death threats against alan and stuff. Guy deserves a roasting but not death threats. not cool.
Thanks for the news Hbox
So Nintendo is Master Hand and Alan is Crazy Hand
i lol'd, that's great xD
If crazy hand wanted to bring millions of dollars worth of sponsors into the smash scene and grow actual full time careers, then sure that was too crazy for a stupid community who wants to stay poor and not grow into a T1 esport
Ultimately they will need to work with Nintendo sooner or later, it's inevitable if the scene ever wants to grow more. 5 major sponsor deals in 5 months would be monumentally greater than 1 papa John's deal. I respect what Alan was aiming for truly, he had a goal and was held down by hate for Nintendo, which isn't unwarranted, but definitely not needed when trying to grow in 2023
Maybe Alan knew Nintendo did not like Gimr due to the handling of ban Nairo. 🤔
When Alan said he didn't believe in melee i was about to throw hands
29:20
"This is what we need to do if we want to pay rent"
"I don't pay rent I'm a Smash player"
THAT ARMADA IMPRESSION WAS SPOT ON LMAO
This is just a story of what people on the internet would call “selling out” for years the entire community has been complaining about no support from Nintendo and how players don’t make enough money. The path to the big bucks would be partnering with Nintendo and growing the scene using the plethora of benefits that come with company support. The problem is demographics Nintendo needs events to be clean and follow their company standards because if Nintendo is going to put their name on something they don’t want it to tarnish their reputation. They have so much more to loose than what can be gained revenue wise from running these events. What Allen did was work hard over several years to get licensing for panda this directly transferred to the better deals panda could offer for the 2023. This benefit however comes with oversight and terms from Nintendo and most likely those terms did not align with what the smash community is today. No one was going to change current way they run their tournaments because some outsider wanted to make everyone more money, because if more money meant losing the soul of the game then it’s not worth it. This model is dependent on growth and for it to have a chance to work it needed everyone to be on board. Like it or not melee does not have the same reach or growth potential and ultimate so in this model it would need to be cut. IMO that is a dick move considering melee is more than just a game. Being tired of scrounging for sponsors and noticing how inherently flawed it is to run an org against the main IP holders wishes, Allen got the license from Nintendo to begin this shift to the main stream. But for this to work he would need the entire community, because Allen does not look at smash the same way the tournament organizers do it seams he never understood why they would be against this shift. Not getting though to them he approached it another way, to emphasize the importance of his license and get people on board he decided to make statements that are indirectly threatening. I could see how this can be seen as a threat but it is a very common business tactic think of it like an insurance sales man bringing up how valuable your house is. This approach did not work because you are dealing with a community built with a foundation of passion, tradition, and the constant threat of being shut down at any time. Seeing that this approach did not work he had to look deeper into a way that would make everyone happy and found loopholes in the licensing agreement that were better for all tournament organizations. The problem is the first approach burned bridges and strong arming the top dog “summit” is a great way to burn bridges no one knows exactly what happened in that second meeting except the people in it,everyone one else will forever have a biased report of what happened. I suspect both sides were at fault but Allen needs to understand no means no instead of presenting an offer you think of as an offer they can’t refuse come back to them later with an offer they can’t refuse. Ken is a very passionate guy and I suspect Allen Rubbed him the wrong way no matter what he said or did afterwords would make him change his mind because this is a hobby not business and frankly a lot of this can be seen as childish. With pandas current monopoly over Nintendo licenses in this new model you would have to give they keys to all of smash to panda until other organizations get their licenses. Given that other organizations could also go through the very long processes of getting licensed. The problem there in lies with change the door for change had been opened and with someone in the market making better offers you would also have to change to complete. Because no one else planned to do that several past activities could cause obtaining a license from Nintendo to be very difficult. To that portion of companies panda and other organizations with licenses would be the beneficiaries of over a decade of hard work, they are the reason the sene is so big. To conclude you can’t have your cake and eat it to, if you want to make smash as profitable as League of legends you need to loose a lot of what makes the smash community the smash community. It is obvious this change is not wanted to stop complaining about the profitability of smash you have lost the right to if you refuse to play by the same rules other competitive games play by. I love smash the way it is but I also want to see my favorite players and organizations make what they deserve and the way things are looking, I don’t see that happening any time soon. Catch 22 f-ed no matter how you put it.
What a stupid saying "You can't have your cake and eat it too". And why the fuck not. Anyone using this saying rubs me the wrong way. If you can't EAT CAKE then why the fk would you want the cake in the first place!??? What kind of backwards shit is this? You work towards the cake so that YOU CAN EAT IT! That's why you want the cake. Cause it's good and it tastes great. On the other hand, what's the fkin point of having a cake if YOU CAN'T EAT it!??? Apply this to real world circumstances and all hell breaks loose. "You can't have a great job and get paid for it too". Then why work hard to get that job in the first place!?? "You can't have a great car and drive it too". Then what's the point of having the car in the first place!??
I swear this is the most idiotic saying anyone's come up with to date. THE most single idiotic saying in 2022.
Everyone needs to just start posting ALL the conversation proof is essential at this point
sounds like alan became the fire nation from Avatar TLA.
You know what’s kind of crazy, Alan could have gotten away with it. If SWT was never shut down, he probably would have gotten the keys. Because a lot of this stuff has been known for months, but only came out because SWT got canceled. If the tournaments had gone as planned, Nintendo would start licensing all the major tournaments. And then boom Alan holds the power to control the whole competitive scene. Think about this; the biggest tournaments of all time getting canceled, in the long run, was probably better for the smash community. Crazy how shit works out.
After hearing a bit about Alan, he immediately gave me savior-complex vibes. Dude comes in out of nowhere and basically tries to make himself the savior of smash while trying to doubt everyone else’s efforts to do the same. To him, ONLY HE can make a successful and groundbreaking smash tournament, not any of the TOS or dedicated community members of SWT or really any tournaments and circuits.
the more of these i watch, the more alan seems like a persona 5 villain lol
Alan literally said "I'm sorry you feel that way" and expected it to blow over well
Should have gone to The Winchester
You clearly didn't read the statement.
@@paolosworld99 we did, and it was absolutely dog shit
@@Atlas_DXUlt you definitely didn’t read the whole statement stop the cap lmfao, you had a grown man read to you the statement and made him make opinions for you
You literally don't know what the word literally means.
Over 30 pages but not a lot of concrete evidence from Alan. Not many receipts at all from him. It's like 6 people's words vs 1 at this point. If the TO's come out with receipts then Alan is finished.
Man this shit has been crazy
An outsider's takeaway from the Smash drama.
1) Nintendo is the Combine, alien and inscrutable
2) Alan is/was Wallace Breen, attempting to be the bridge between Nintendo and Smash players
3) Doxing is terrible, don't do it
So after all the digging and hearing what he said/she said/they said/YO MAMA said. All I'm getting is that Alan was on some form of powertrip and cost the community two game changing tournaments. _Savior of Smash my asshole!_
Attempt to make sense of everything: BTS was taking share away from VGBC. VGBC decides to start an unlicensed circuit, SWT, to gain some momentum back. Panda had been trying to get a circuit going for a few years, but was stuck in red tape because they chose to get it officially licensed. After 4 years of waiting, Nintendo says yes to Panda. Alan is excited at his major breakthrough and approaches TOs, who mostly either decline politely or completely ignore him for months. He tries again and again, but nobody is interested in his opportunity. They don’t know him, they don’t need him. Except they need Nintendo, who presumably gave Panda the license because somewhere along the way they realized that the time for unlicensed tournaments/streaming Etc, has to end. Alan knows this, having talked to Nintendo for 4 years. The TOs don’t want to hear it. He is not exactly threatening, just relaying what he knows to be true from Nintendo - that SWT will be shut down, as will other unlicensed tournaments. He keeps telling them to get on board, and they have no benefit in it, except to avoid Nintendo shutting them down, so they felt strong-armed and threatened, blaming Panda. Meanwhile Panda stood to benefit from being the first licensee and gate-keeper. The transition to licensed tournaments was supposed to all happen quietly in 2023, except VGBC got wind of it and went straight to Nintendo for clarification. If licensing
Was required, SWT Had no Future. Nintendo couldn’t officially say it was fine to continue unlicensed, because they intended to require licensing starting in 2023 and a statement on that would look terrible if there policy in a month is completely different. They also didn’t directly tell them the event would be canceled, because they had no intention of canceling it. VGBC doesn’t know at that point if SWTC 2022 Is getting canceled or not because Nintendo won’t comment…and they can’t afford to take that chance financially. They cancel, and blame Panda for causing their downfall, which is only partially true. It does seem to be Nintendo’s fault for deciding that tournaments should be licensed, and then not telling anyone, and then issuing exactly one license giving one organization/person way too much power. While Alan has been painted a villain, it appears that he was just in the (un)lucky place to get the first license and was trying to capitalize on that advantage. VGBC, meanwhile, fast-tracked an international circuit, knowing full well that it would be shutdown if they weren’t able
To obtain a license. They also know that the backlash From this might Just be enough to for Nintendo to have a change of heart from forcing licenses. This one act of canceling the SWT may just bankrupt Panda, nearly bankrupt VGBC, and save the entire Smash scene from Nintendo’s control.
I was wondering what does a korean boy band has to do with smash until now I realize its summit lol
21:15 - "I just don't believe in melee"
And that's why the players in the community didn't like Alan. Makes sense now. If true and Alan really didn't see a potential for Melee moving forward (also may be pressure from Nintendo to not feature modded versions of Super Smash Brothers: Melee in broadcasts and events) that would have turned off hardcore smash players and pose a risk to anyone partnering the Panda.
Modded Melee mostly involves changing numerical values to eliminate controller dependency, the majority of which could probably be done with an hacking device like an Action Replay, which does not store a modified ROM, making it not IP infringement in the US according to Galoob v. Nintendo of America.
Slippi is literally gecko codes and a launcher, it's not a modified ROM and requires a vanilla iso of melee to play. UCF and frozen stadium are also gecko codes. Gecko codes are basically the same thing as an action replay.
@@commscan314 injecting code is still modding, it's just done on the fly instead of beforehand.
@@commscan314 sure but that’s not what Project M is.
I think it best to define my terms, when I think modded Melee I’m thinking of Project M and the online functionality added to Melee and emulation on PC for some.
And as usual, the community has to be the one to suffer as a result of incompetence.
Honestly idk why we even try anymore. Let’s just all play modded smash bros only and die in a blazing glory at this rate: Smash Remix, Project M, Project+, HewDraw Remix.
I hate this community being bound by these old, out of touch idiots who just can’t accept that they’re not providing what we want.
Everytime I even look at getting into competitive Smash, I keep seeing things like this that just push me away, and it doesn’t help that my favorite Smash games just so happen to be the modded ones.
Just got a Liquid Honda ad while watching this 💀
What a ride these past 2 weeks have been
I wouldn't be worried about what ever beef they got with each other. Instead I would be worried about the fact that these guys make a lot of money off of the backs of the professional players that attend the events. So while you guys pour your guts out on the game floor and barely get anything for it, they get incredibly rich and buy mansions and villas and sports cars. I think the only people that should own the broadcasting rights are the pro players. It's a joke at this point really. You make the e-sport happen and without you there would be no e-sport. So why should these orgs get everything while you guys get what? 50k? 100k? 200k on the best tournament? While they get many, MANY millions in the bank, EVERY tournament!
Most smashers don’t even get $50,000! They literally pay the smashers dirt and crumbs while they pocket pretty much everything else….
Uh oh, looks like Alan reminded Nintendo they can make money with broadcast rights on their game. Do any of these people have any receipts for what they are saying or is it all "he said she said"?
i feel like the stuff that Alan did was cuss Nintendo said to, and now that there is an uproar Nintendo made him the fall guy. If Nintendo can not control it, they will shut it down HARD.
Not sure what all to think, but if I've gathered anything it is that Dr. Alan didn't believe in melee and apparently denied Kodorin a spot on panda because he didn't believe in melee which is enough to make me dislike him.
Alan destroys the competitve scene, drops 32 pages walks out and refuses to elaborate. Such an alan move.
I wonder how much nuance we are missing from all this.
I think these two were both trying to take different roads to the same destination, and really just clashing in their means of accomplishing this.
Community in shambles, from the lack of action on serious issues to this shitshow. They need to get they heads together.
But now that alan is gone, who's gonna stop nintendo? If panda is completely gone, Nintendo could just shut down every event, and honestly, with how people habe been reacting to this with doxxing and shit, i wouldn't blame them.
But also, would love to actually get those calls as proof of what really happened