Who needs the Boeing 737MAX NOW?!
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
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The Boeing 737MAX is due to return to the skies within a few weeks from now. But it is returning to a reality which is very different from the one that existed at the time of its grounding in Mars 2019.
Right now the Aviation business is going through its greatest crisis in history so WHY are we not seeing more orders of the Boeing 737MAX being cancelled.
In this video I will give you 4 good reasons to why Airlines are keeping their orders of new aircraft instead of cancelling them.
I hope you will like this video, please let me know in the comments below if there is any other reason you think is important or what YOU think about the MAX returning to service.
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode. Enjoy checking them out!
KING 5 Grounded MAX´s
• Planes stack up in Ren...
• Grounded 737 Max 8 jet...
FL Technics (D-check)
• Video
Boeing (B737 and B787 display)
• Boeing 787-10 Dreamlin...
• Video
I have been on 737 MAX LOT flight from EGLL to EPWA and back in early 2018. It had nice modern interior, comfortable seats and quiet engines. I wasn't aware about MCAS and all instability problems before LionAir crash, so I enjoyed the flight. Now I would be much more anxious...
Over 3000 people have died in A-320 crashes.
What about all people on all 737's?
You can't realistically call the number of canceled 737 MAX orders, 1,043 of 5,005 total so far, small. The number is large in itself, but especially taking into consideration the reasons Mentour Pilot listed for airlines to not cancel orders. This isn't the first time Mentour Pilot has been downplaying Boeing's problems.
We may “need” the 737 max, but as a passenger I will always breathe a sigh of relief if I find the aircraft I’m about to board is called an “Airbus” something and not a “Boeing” something
Funny, until the MAX I always got scared on Airbus.
I swear I am deadly afraid of MCAS 😅 I actually have paid the airlines extra just so that's it an airbus 😅
@@lawyerpanda1856 Treatment is available for irrational fear of an aircraft ruled safe by Europe's EASA, the U.S.'s FAA, China's CAA, not to mention authorities in Canada, Brazil, India, Malaysia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, South Korea, and so on.
@@nealenrick i think you should get a treatment for thinking FAA, EASA, CAA, aviation authorities of India, Brazil, Canada, Suadi Arabia,Singapore,South Korea and so on are corruptionless and care about you.😂😂.
@@nealenrick I don’t think china has cleared it yet to fly
Ever since the merger with McDonald Douglas, the Douglas executives have actually been in charge . They shifted the central focus of Boeing to short term profits instead of quality and safety just as they did at MD.
There have been other exposes on quality issues with other Boeing planes like the 787 which many employees on the assembly line have said they would never fly on due to rushed, improperly assembled air frames and wiring and secondary system installations. The South Carolina plant in particular has been charged with sloppy work and skipping safety inspections or blowing off company inspectors reporting problems.
The re engine design of the 737 max was a cost cutting compromise from it's inception. Reusing a 1960s airframe with engines that are way too large for the design, and hanging them on nacelles pushed way out in front of the wings, makes this an unstable air craft whenever power is applied. The tendency for the aircraft to pitch up was covered over by installing a hidden computer controlled pitch override that the pilots were not even told about. It was dependent on one sensor, would actually over ride control inputs by the pilots and was almost impossible for pilots to disengage; in fact it would require a knowledge of the system and disengaging the pitch control motors to manage to stop an extreme dive into terrain.
Boeing executives justified the secret system as informing the pilots would have meant some additional pilot training, which Boeing now told airlines would not be required.
This all conspired to create a Hollywood melodrama nightmare of air crews and passengers murdered by a rouge computer taking over the controls and flying into the ground. Even after the first crash Boeing hid the flawed system until it killed another 157 people.
They should have started with a new air frame that can accommodate the new larger LEAP engines with sufficient ground clearance and proper wing placement to maintain level flight under acceleration without major control corrections.
Of course, they could have just taught the pilots to input down elevator to correct the rise but why trust a pilot?
Airlines that have already invested in the Max might not be able to take the loss of cancelling. But any airline making new orders for the MAX are not doing themselves any favors no matter how much Boeing tries to discount the plane.
I know Boeing going bust is a big deal, but maybe this is the way it should be. A new American manufacturer could pick up the pieces and workers with new management and restore the company to it's old values. I will never fly a MAX on principle even if I trusted the band aids.
Lawrence Ordine
I agree with all these points 100%. I'd like to add, that if boeing goes under, it's very likely the death kneel for American aviation industry. Airbus and other companies will instead take there place and likely won't be American companies.
This is why the failure of the FAA here is such a betrayal. Not only did regulatory incompetence kill over 350 people, it's also threatened the viability and credibility of american industry as whole.
Compounding the issues, political pressure will make it impossible to instate the necessary regulatory reformations needed to bring back credibility to American industry. I fear we are basically in a industrial ability death spiral and those at the helm are intentionally holding the yoke over and pointing it at the ground for personal gain.
@@zelkuta Boeing will remain a defense contractor and commercial presence even after a chapter 11. They need new management.
@@larryordine7542 Defense contractor, sure. But more-over, I think brain drain and regulatory castration has contributed to a situation where american industry is losing it 's competency.
It seems to me across many industrial sectors that American engineering is in a sharp decline, both private entrepreneurship and public infrastructure.
@@zelkuta there is no regulation castration on Boeing. Greed, Lack of oversight and the FAA allowing the company to self certify the max got them in this mess. The old Boeing had a different culture and priorities.
@@larryordine7542 That's what I'm saying though, the agencies that are supposed to be overwatching them have been effectively shoved to the side to allow this company to do stupid stuff like self-certify. Lot of the FAA authority has been reigned in through budget cuts by congress that sees regulation as the enemy
I'm not saying regulation are getting in the way, I'm saying the lack of regulatory authority and over sight through dis empowering the agencies that are supposed to watch over them is partially to blame.
It's come out that boeing personal were bragging about misleading regulators, this is not a healthy company.
Although this video was mainly about economics and finance, I found the topic extremely interesting and, as always, you have explained it in a fantastic manner! Thank you so much :)
The airline industry is more about economics than we usually think. And this was a great presentation!
Calm, engaging, thorough, well presented, such a joy to listen to. Though I'd like to say I'm fine with just a nice day😀
4
You only explained for the perfect world which you should know it is not......these plane are even now being slammed by their own old workmates.
It's not as bad as people tend to think. AFAIK it is possible to manually adjust that via yoke. It's just very annoying to do. Therefore they've put in a system to do that automatically.
The problem was twofold:
1. They never told the pilots how the system is working and how to turn it off in case of trouble.
2. The system only depended on one data source, which is not acceptable because of too high risk of failure.
This is why when the fault inevitably failed, the pilots had no real chance to react. But now it's different. Even when the fault happens again, pilots now know about the system and will know how to properly react to save the plane.
While you pilot qualifications make you great for learning about planes and flying, I'm very impressed with your understanding of the business of airlines as well. That sell/lease back section was quite interesting. Keep up our broad and varied education!
I am not a pilot, but an enthusiast. I really love the way you explain things. A really good mentor ☺️
This is why I find the aviation industry as a whole , interesting . Thank you MentorPilot .
Grounded in 2019? I could've sworn that was 5 years ago or so.
That’s how it feels, isn’t it
Sure feels that way!
These last 12 month where quite a stressful decade.
@@kilianortmann9979 Can we just wipe 2020 off the calendar? I will put an asterisk by it.
@@jamesries5534 Not so fun fact: 2020 will be an average year. Worse than the last, but much better than the next.
Your previous introduction theme with mentour music theme and engine spooling up with rising rpms.. was the best one !!! Wish to see that in your further videos
Terrific trailer. Kudos to Dominic, incredible graphix. If we could only fly as easily as he makes it look.
Super interesting video - I learned a lot about the aviation industry. Thank you!
Glad to hear that!
Agreed, very informative and insightful.
@@MentourPilot What exactly did they change in the MAX design to be recertified?
I would love to see a you do a video on what airlines typically do with older aircraft approaching their end of service life. I'm curious how many are sold to lesser known airlines, rather than incur the cost of the expensive Type D service. I'm curious how many of these aircraft are still operating in parts of the world with less strict enforcement of maintenance regulations.
Sold to carriers in 3rd world countries.
Love that you kept your red and green nav "lights" on the comfy chair!
One of the issues was the McDonnell Douglas merger and that influence on management style. MCD managers were focused on Wall Street and bottom line, and ignored the MCAS
A very interesting case on how wrong institutional culture can ruin a company
I know it’s an older video but I have a question relevant to this one. Airlines that bought the MAX and then were grounded, did they receive the warranty (maintenance honeymoon) extension equivalent to the duration of the downtime?
Never noticed that before but I love the fact the 737 in your intro has a SE- registration. /Ta hand om dig!
5th reason, threaten to cancel the order and Boeing is rumoured to be caving in with massive discounts. SWA probably got its white tails very cheaply as compensation for the MAX grounding and Boeings desperate cash flow situation.
EVERYBODY involved in the airline business has a “desperate cash flow situation”. Airlines, manufacturers, stood down staff, contractors, suppliers etc etc etc
@@FutureSystem738 Your comment made me think of something it is said Richard Branson (head of Virgin Atlantic) said : _"how to become a millionaire ? => Become a billionnaire, then run an airline"._
Legend has it that you get a free MAX with every 3 packets of Cornflakes.....
@@StephenKarl_Integral - If airlines are so unprofitable, why does anyone want to have one?
@@algrayson8965 if being a billionnaire is so great, why are they that uncommon ?
it's the exact same thing : nobody actually teaches you how to be a billionnaire or how to build a great airline, because, it depends on so many things about *you and your collaborators,* the *context* in which you run your business, and most importantly, the process in which *you have to unlearn* how the world works, to understand how it actually works, for real, and without second guess; to name a few :
- use or be used (you'll never be a billionnaire if you are the one that is used, ie, employee - don't believe me ? make the math, how long it would take you to get one million via your salary...)
- "fear" is a choice people make when they don't know what to do, that's why they do nothing
- people have to learn what they actually are to find the correct and shortest way (time) to undertake a project/task and get there. Failure is never by chance, it's because you've done someting you're not good at (yet)
- "be nice", "be a good person", "work hard so you get a good job", etc ... those are all WRONG advices for anyone if the goal was to be rich. That kind of advice leads you to do the wrong decisions, like being reluctant to use people or being so used to get congratulations for great results since school, you tend to ask more for the rest of your life by working for someone on a small scale instead of working for you on a large scale.
- the essence of being happy in life is to have fought again and again for it. That doesn't mean go puch anyone in front of you, that means do never let go of what matters to you whatever the situation and whoever is questionning your way. The problem is, what makes one happy is not always to be rich (it's rarely the case). Most people are happy when they have nice other people around them. Those people do not have the means to use other people.
^^ this is a summary of the root of the problem to run a profitable business relatively large (running an airline, that's some millions or even billions at stake). You're wrong if you think people are not trying, reality is : they usually fail. Just take the hundreds of thousands private pilots that owns a small private plane, yes, most of them did at some point in their life dreamed of running an airline. And many more... not even owning a private plane, who learned too late how things works (like me ? yeah !)
If you ask yourself why billionnaires are horrible persons (for you), it's because they have the guts to make their dream true, of being rich and use the world for that. Do you have the guts to confront them and fight for the right of anyone to have a decent life ? The turn to act is not on them, it's on you, your choice to get crushed of stand up (I'm adding this as an example to show you the paradox : people are expecting things that will never happen, but they do not adapt and take the right decision, because of ignorance/not knowing/not having the opportunity to learn how things works/or intentionnaly lead to a false representation of the world, even for so many people, when you teach then, they remain in denyal of everything)
The airline industry is a very small world. Your product, seats onboard planes, is not enough to make profit, thanks to oil prices, regulations (maintainance, fares, exploitation rights...), notoriety, all kind of things you don't control (weather, politics, covid, terrorism, war, competition, economics...), but you must cope with. An airline is much more than a bunch of planes, logistics and qualified people. It's the entire world on a small scale, and you must be a kind of prophet to envision what the world will be in 10, 20 years yet to come because it's not just about how the world looks today. In the industry, most important decisions are not to solve an existing problem, it's to face future challenges. Airlines that do not care about getting datas and analysis are bound to crash in no time (or remain the same small hopper for decades)
You know, even Trump with his Trump Shuttle (ex Eastern Airlines with around 25 B727s if I'm not mistaken) failed, flatly. USAirways took over.
When you mention the sale and lease back as a win-win operation for the airlines, you need to add that the airlines will have to pay a rent of about 1 million$ per month per 100 million$ plane. In the actual situation the airlines operate at the most at 40% of their capacity, so they do not need any new planes even the B737max at the moment. Boeing will have also to pay heavy compensation due to the late delivery (about 2 years).
Thanks Petter. As always told in a very understandable way. A pleasure to listen to. Hope you and yours are staying safe. I believe at last there is a light in the corvid tunnel. All the best Mick🇬🇧
Buy/ lease back model isn’t just in the airline industry. Heavy machinery, super computers, real estate, agriculture for example.
Works as a nice reliable tax deduction too, as Operational Expenditure.
Who wins out of this? Just the corporations and banks.
So true. Who wants the hot potato...... red-hot-risk$
@@incandescentwithrage "Just the corporations and banks." Well and don't forget the several thousands of employees who are able to feed their families, because someone is able to order and pay their work. :-) And it would be a much bigger "tax reduction" if they just buy the whole thing ;-)
@@thomas.leitner This in increasingly not the case, any longer.
@@cuttight Well and how do you think about companies trying to save/gain money wherever they can, to be able to survive the next crisis (paying resources/employees, while not earning)?
So happy I discovered this gem of a channel
Love the Port & Starboard arm rest covers. Keeping the continuity of the lounge cushions.✔👍😁
Didn't notice that. Wish i hadn't.
I definitely didn’t notice. Thx
Gay comment
@@chris77777777ify super kinda gay
I'll never get on one. The airframe has been pushed too far, and I don't trust Boeing to test their software to try and fudge it. The Starliner test that was supposed to beat SpaceX to the ISS also had a catalog of errors that needed reviewing. They've still not even done their demonstrator flight and SpaceX with far less budget and seniority are steaming ahead.
Why do you Elon fanatics have to mention him or his companies in the context of everything. This video has nothing to do with space flight. Also you should do some fact checking on “less budget streaming ahead.” Their cost are just as high right now as NASA space flight. All they are saying is after 10-20 years they will hopefully get the cost down. Elon says they will get the cost down in a year or two. His actual engineers say otherwise.
I didn’t want to board Boeing 737 MAX aircraft after the two crashes involving Lion Air and Ethiopian Air . Am glad the regional airline has sent their fleet of newly acquired Boeing 737 MAX to the Australian desert . I won’t be boarding these planes even if the air fare is free of charge .
In a year's time you won't even remember the Max 8 because there will be no more accidents, and it will just become another plane that you can't identify and you'll board it and won't care what it is as long as it gets you to where you are going. The most likely reason they are in the Australian desert is because there was no place else to store them during their grounding. Once they are ungrounded, they'll be back in operation.
Yeah, I was flying in a Zeppelin over New Jersey when it caught fire. I never flew in one of those again.
@@halcyonoutlander2105 safety and probability of crash are two totally separate things
Now I know why the airlines mysteriously manage to stay afloat! Lease back!
There's another factor that needs to be taken into account - and I happen to think its the biggest. If a manufacturer keeps flogging the same old tin decade after decade but a new manufacturer comes along with much better equipment, airlines are going to migrate. The 737 dates back to 1967 and the fuselage is even older, it's exactly the same barrel section as the 727, which means 1962. And if you want to install more efficient engines you have to play silly buggers with things like MCAS.
Another reason why the big 4-Engine aircrafts are being faced out is because smaller aircrafts have been gaining in range for years now (for example because they are more fuel efficient, as you mentioned). That means that you don't need the big birds for long haul flights anymore. It also means, that you can operate from smaller airports with shorter runways that take smaller fees from the airlines. It just became way more economically viable to change your fleet to smaller, 2-Engine planes, so A380 and 747 are getting sidelined. Covid is just accelerating this process.
But what happens when you can’t get passengers onto your new fleet of jets because the public has lost all trust in Boeing? One, just one more accident will bring down not only Boeing, but apparently also leasing companies, insurance companies and lord only knows how many other smaller businesses. This financialization of a once great engineering firm is fraught with risk that millions of innocents may end up paying for.
Sadly alot of people will forget about the reason why the Max was grounded, others will see a good price and happily get onboard. The Airlines will probably switch reg 737s with Max at the last minute and people wont notice.
@Bro Momento i hope you are right and nobody else dies. The FAA and Boeing need to earn the publics trust after all that we have found out about their cozy relationship. I dont feel i will be losing out on anything by not flying on a Max, the A320 and A220s are perfectly fine replacements for flying.
@Bro Momento the 777 is about the best
@Bro Momento I read somewhere from a Boeing worker/manager that things went down hill when they moved their HQ from Seattle to Chicago and the money boys took over from the engineers/designers. We can both be right.
Mentor Pilot. Just watch this video and it warmed my heart! Excellent explanation on some facts that most of us do not know is such a detail. I'm a BA investor and wish more people could watch this insideful video. Thank you so much!
I believe, ultimately 737 max will be introduced and recertificatied to the market. However, really hope for the improvement in the industry, after the pandemic.
I love your arm rest covers: red on the left and green on the right. No one can appreciate better than a pilot that subtle decoration touch 😉👍.
Emirates: Lucky me! i don't have any!
Etihad: Lucky me! i don't have any!
ANA: Lucky me! i don't have any!
Ryanair: I am so screwed
Fly Dubai has them, part of EK....
LOL
I really love this new intro. Amazing channel. Greetings from Argentina!
This was a great explanation! Bottom line, though, this all comes down to being easy to sneak a plane past the regulators that shouldn't have flown, then getting it back in the air so the bankers don't take the hit. Nothing to do with properly designing a new aircraft. In the US, Southwest still flies Boeing, American has a mix of Airbus and Boeing, Delta has Airbus and orders for more and some legacy Boeing, and United also has a mix, but actually has a large order for max.
0:18. They fixed the MAX such that now it pitches uncontrollably up instead of down to cancel the affect.
passengers should be notified if they are going to board B737Max when they buy their tickets
Statistician: the 737 Max flies level on average.
@@tunkunrunk you have always been able to see that information, you just never paid attention until the disaster happened
lol
That's actually kinda what the plane does/can do without the MCAS, so you're not far off.
15-20 years?! Tell that to Air Canada’s Dash 8 100s that they’re still flying
This was a side of the civil aviation industry I knew very little about. Thank you for explaining it so clearly!
Was an interesting article i read yesterday about the MAX line, and how airlines will be made to disclose to passengers well ahead of time if they will be flying on a MAX, and likely allow free ticket switches if the passenger is uncomfortable flying on that aircraft. Gonna be interesting to see how the various airlines ease these planes into service...hopefully all the bugs are squashed.
The disclosure will be in small print on the last page of the ticket sale website.
I for one will never fly on a max. It's a fundamental design problem fixed with software.....
@@dressageandalusian Same!
Until you wake up in the middle of the night, crying for your daughter to come back, you'll never understand. Will never board the Max ever..... 🥺🥺😢😢😢😢😢😢
My sincerest condolences for your loss :(
it is knowen as THE FLYING DEATH TRAPPES!
Please accept my condolences
:(
I’m so sorry for your loss. My God 🙏😥
Im praying for you❤️
I am so sorry for your loss. How heart-breaking. 💔💔💔💔
Food for thought: The 737 MAX was grounded 2 years ago. That's longer than it actually took to design it in the first place.
@dothemathright 1111 It's a classic tale of (re) design overreach or putting lipstick on a pig. I can't stand the 737 with its narrow 1962 cabin and that's not 20-20 hindsight.
Thank you, that was very informative. It is all about money!
Shocker that airlines aren't a non-profit. Too bad because then your ticket fare could be tax deductible.
No shit.
Those aircraft leasing companies would be a great case study in a finance class. On paper the arrangement is just cash up front (purchase price) in return for a long term stream of payments (lease fees). However, all sorts if things can happen to even the strongest airline over the 20 year life of a plane. I wonder how many leasing companies found themselves in posession of a bunch of old planes with Pan Am or Braniff livery that they needed to find a way to unload.
And on the airline's side these leases will almost certainly have to be shown in the accounts as debt. It's not alchemy. If a company cannot escape rents/lease payments, etc. then a figure representing total future lease payments has to be shown (IFRS16 in international accounting rules, I think). Otherwise, a company could just go on a never-ending spending spree, building an organisation built on sand, and nobody would know.
As others have suggested, that's how crooks (sorry, expert financial types) have managed to pay themselves performance bonuses whilst crippling previously healthy companies - you sell an asset, pocket the cash, leave other poor fools to worry about making the future rental payments whilst you move on to the next job.
I'm no expert, just pointing out some observations :
When an airline goes bankrupt, that doesn't mean the market has disappeared, there is still a demand for the routes. Usually/most of the cases, existing airlines allowed to exploit the market will take over, including the fleet, it's only a matter of few weeks/months to sign the new deal. Everyone (except the bankrupt airline) win. I'm aware of those pictures of stored/parked fleets over the decades, but actually keeping track of frames operators and in fleet delivery dates, I'm not surprised anymore to see the same plane going from a bankrupt airline directly to its competitor in a matter of weeks. Transaero, Lauda Air, TWA, Swissair....
It's the returned frames from smaller airlines which appears to struggle to get new operator, and the frames may wait up to several years, or getting scrapped at some point.
There are also airlines going bankrupt, most likely because of ageing fleets not renewed, getting under the pressure of more economically efficient competitors. When the airline stop the flights, actually no airline want to operate the frames anymore. Did happenned some decades ago to leased DC9, 737-200, DC10, 747 classics etc., happenned a few years ago to 747-400, 757, A340, happening now to 777s, A380 (leased ? didn't kept track of which ones are leased, didn't expected them to get out of the way that early). I would say, if the lessor didn't planned ahead on ditching those frames and replace them, well...
I love your videos! I have learned so much! Keep up the good work! It would an honor to meet you some day!
Wish we nowadays had the time when MAX grounding is the biggest aviation problem...
The question is not who needs it but who is going to fly in it. As a passenger you couldn’t pay me enough to step on board that plane. It’s had numerous software upgrades and no sooner has one been done the authorities go, no,no,no not good enough back to the drawing board again. To me the manufacturer has just tried to push the original design and new tech too far. Instead of upgrading and changing the original design which will always be a compromise they should have just designed a completely new plane.
Nobody can cure your emotional shortcomings. Neither can aircraft.
I would be ok if the only aircraft I fly in going forward is the 737max.
I don’t believe the problem was found. Like the vast majority of aircraft incidents and accidents I’m certain these crashes were caused by pilot error. What I don’t know is why did that become taboo and nobody would mention that pilot error is even possible even though that’s almost always the case!
@@280zjammer I am amazed at that comment, they know exactly why the aircraft flew into the ground twice I might add and this was despite the best efforts of the pilots to try and recover the plane. It has been clearly stated that it was the tech on board that caused the crash not the pilots. Do you seriously believe that this aircraft has been banned from flying worldwide if there was any suspicions it was pilot error. That is stretching conspiracy theory’s to extreme limits with absolutely no evidence to back that up, very Donald Trump in style.
FYI in late December 2020, Australia did a medevac flight across Antarctica with a basler with skis. A basler is a 1940s DC3/C47 airframe and wings retrofitted with modern turboprop engines. Some planes just keep flying while others become recycled aluminum.
That's summer in Antarctica. A winter evacuation from the south pole has been done. It was done with a Twin Otter flown down from Canada just for the evac.
I really like the new introduction and seating situation. I’m in my easy chair listening to you, like the good friend you have become ! I might have to find the red and green arm covers ... N.E.OH Bob
I think it is also worth noting that if the airline industry starts growing rapidly again in the post pandemic world, which is not an unlikely scenario by the mid twenties (maybe as early as '23).
Canceling orders now puts you at the very very back of the line to expand your future operations.
Hi from 23, nicely called
Id actually be perfectly happy flying on a max. It'd be a nice new cushy quiet aircraft, and probably the single most scrutinized aircraft flying today, if not of all time. The DC-10 went on to become a good aircraft (although I prefer the L-1011-who doesn't?), and every pilot that flies a max from now on will be crystal clear on how the new systems work.
Yeah, any day of the week. No problem getting on a max.
I totally agree. After that extent of checks, it will be one of the safest planes on the market.
@Thomas Browne I understand the Max factory on the East coast, was/is a working hell-hole night-mare. Non Unionized staff, with a low understanding of the job quality standards.
Here-today-gone-tomorrow, staffing.
Actually this extra checklist is one point the pilots union in the USA are unhappy about. The extra steps on the checklists make emergency procedures more of a handful. Obviously updating the flight deck is out as that would need more certification. Its pointless to talk about it. Boeing will get recertified and not much will be done. Eventually sorting out a synthetic air speed indicator ... Is hardly the radical shakeup at boeing and the FAA that is reported In the news.
@Thomas Browne the 737 max isn't 1960's technology, its 1960s engineering and thats really a push at the best, it was an airframe designed then
Every single commercial passenger plane being built to this day is based on old structural technology. The materials may have finally begun to change, but only within the last decade. The 787 and a350 are built structurally the same as any other plane. Despite the advantages new materials offer to improve design and enhance performance!
The problem isn't the 1960's technology, it is just as sound now as it was then which is the problem. The commercial aviation community really hates change and would honestly use a proven technology forever and just keep putting new curtains on it every few decades if it could. The max failure is not a failure of the plane, it is a failure within the mindset of the commercial aviation community! They had become so used to the technology being reliable and consistent they stopped paying attention to what decades of removing and replacing curtain rods to hold those new fancy triple layered curtains was doing to the underlying structure. Worse still, their misguided faith in an unfaltering technology lead to design choices that assumed that any and all problems could only be attributed to the new rod and curtains, therefore, all fixes for those problems focused solely on the new and never how the new and old interacted or how the old may be just inadequate! Last and most troubling, the end user of this product was never made aware that a problem ever existed and that a repair had been poorly and hastily attempted leaving the end user to assume the operation of the product must be the same!
I loved the previous intro music! I love the sound of engines revving up. Please use that music in this intro too! ❤️😍
It energizes and get's me excited to listen the episode!
It's such an old airframe and it looks it. On top of that the latest bodges don't convince. It's an aberration. A compromise too far and they still haven't been able to address it's other inefficiencies. Only a completely new design will do that. PS Who will insure these aircraft? If so, how inflated is the premium?
What about an old design: Boeing 757?
a compromise too far. I think the people that died on those Max flights would agree
When the second 737 MAX crashed, Boeing had 5,800 planes on order. Last month they still had 5,100 planes on order. They now have 350 + completed planes that have not been delivered. Although they are parked, it still costs every segment of the supply chain money while they sit.
How is the grounded 737Max planes status if they are parked for long term ? Any special routines to start the engines up etc now and then ?
They will probably have to go through extensive checks to make sure they are airworthy
10:49 What happens when your instructor wakes you up during class. "Right! Right! Mr. Mentour Dude!"
Anticipating the sale and lease-back of an aircraft which is still work in progress is quite a credit risk and the financial premium must be way above the risk free rate. I wonder if there is insurance in the case of delayed deliveries or even unexpected problems such as those that occurred with the MAX.
It is too early to say what will happen with the 737MAX. Those on order will probably still be delivered, but if the aviation industry scale back due to less demand for international travel, that will have an impact on future orders. Airlines scrapping aircraft's with no intention of replacing them. I think we will begin to see abandoned aircraft's stranded on airports where it is not profitable to retrieve them from. (Abandoned originally due to missing a spare part, then just left there because the airline has other airplanes to use instead and then after months on the tarmac beyond repair due to neglect)
So they are extracting cash from previous payments on the aircraft being built. The leasing companies are taking on some risk there, I would guess that terms won't be as good as they once were for sure.
You have a good point. Many pax are reluctant now to step aboard a 737 Max. (Maybe I could re-phrase that - "Many max pax are reulctant to step aboard'?) Confidence in a once great company I think is much diminished. It is amazing how one man - Dennis Muilenburg - can single-handedly destroy a great company's reputation and walk away with a huge bag of cash. I'm a Brit and yes I have worked for the 'A' company. I have worked with the 'B' company, but on different products - it was a good experience. I would never put down the 'B' company's past achievements. I think you are correct - I doubt that the aeroplane lease companies are falling over themselves to take on the Max. They're two to a penny now. Well done rich Dennis!
@@grahamcooper6476 well regardless of consumer confidence in 737max safety, the demand for airplanes has lessened overall due to the current lowering in air travel demand. The airlines will simply be unable to extract as much cash as they once could.
Here at United we just bought some 15 year old Airbuses from China Southern Airlines. I do not recall United getting rid of planes with less then 25 years, except recently we did park 747’s with less then 20.
I miss you doing videos from your living room... and in uniform. I’m an old school Mentour fan! 🤷♂️
There will be some changes going forward, I’m making a new studio (not this set) and it will still be a sofa, just not in my living room (my wife has finally said “no”) 😂
He was doing that 'till the ending of the last year, how's that oldschool lmao.
@@ifpstopmotions9720 Things are going so fast, man! 😛🤷♂️
@@MentourPilotOk, Sandra gets to say the last word! 😄
@@MentourPilot please with the dogs :)
Haha, the 737-100 and 200 are called "Jurassics?" That's clever. I had to play it back a couple times, I was like "did he really say 'jurassic?'" I'm guessing Southwest will be ordering the MAX, looking forward to it. It really is a good lookin bus, a long way from a Jurassic.😊 Nice work again, Petter.
We won't step foot in a 737 Max until we see that it has established a good safety record.
AMEN
It has now
Very informative and helpful program. Especially this episode detailing benefits for airlines' to acquire new Max planes. Thanks for the timely info.
To help continue the trend of flying empty airplanes around the world, you can easily see why the Max will be in high demand.
Ouch
Yeah I won't ever be flying in one
@@dressageandalusian Neither will I .😎
@@dressageandalusian In a year's time you won't even remember the Max 8 because there will be no more accidents, and it will just become another plane that you can't identify and you'll board it and won't care what it is as long as it gets you to where you are going.
@@ImpendingJoker people aren't stupid, I certainly won't be flying in one ever.
Left field question. How does one learn proper procedures with Microsoft Flight Sim? Are there integrated lessons? Buy real private pilot textbooks for hundreds? I want to buy it but I don’t want to play it as a game. I’d love to take this aviation enthusiasm I’ve always had (father was Air Force Captain rank, navigator on B52’s) and at 51 years old get my virtual pilot’s license. I’m asking you educated folks because honestly I have nobody else to ask and I find the people here quite helpful and intelligent. I’m a longtime viewer.
People all over the world wants a cheap and safe plane and not a killer plane, period
Only the marketing department people know why we chose the B737Max in the first place. Air Canada has not had any 737 in the fleet for ages(thats including all the former airlines in the pre-merger days). The range of Airbuses with their commonality in operations and maintenamce makes them a much more sensible choice, but its marketing that has the 'intelligence' that the board of directors listen to
How can a company who intentially fooled its customers, the FAA, the passengers and even the pilots even exist... it's beyond me
But it paid the right bribes! So there!
Because they are so big and important to the economy. All that matters is money.
You are right !!!
We all have a choice, don’t fly it.
Yeah, we should just shut it down along with the 120,000 jobs. Good idea. Bet you’re a democrat.
Well, Southwest Airlines and Ryanair will take a lot of 737 MAX planes. Especially Southwest, who needs to start replacing a large fraction of their 737-700 fleet (many of which are now over 20 years old).
You forgot the white blanket over the backrest.
I would like a special video about low-timers pilots/students about the comming future. Just saw an article saying it will be needed about 27.000 new pilots for 2021, but at the same time , in UK there's a general advise to not start a pilot formation. We will appreciate your point of view.
Software can never repair aerodynamic issues such a shame they made the decision to put it back in the air i don't like the idea of the engines placed in that position on the wing 🤔.
I totally agree. This plane is a disaster and should never fly again. I will avoid it at all cost.
I have followed this from the beginning, and it seems there are two reasons given for the MCAS system; compensate for the larger more forward engines, and/or to make the plane feel like other 737's to avoid pilot retraining. If it was only the latter, it wouldn't be so hard to justify it, but if more of the former...
This plane should of had a seperate type rating if it did most likely those accidents would not of happened😐
@@Testpilottim Yep. It would have been cheaper to re-certify. But to do that, the original plane would have to pass current safety standards, and I have no idea if it could actually do that.
I'm no huge friend of Max series, but lets be fair - it wasnt the aerodynamics/cog problems that caused those two crashes, but rather it was their (badly implememted) compensation (by software)...
So yes, correcting the bugs (quite many of them, also in the AoA indication) should make the plane quite acceptable... as much as really old design can be. That's the legacy... it coming too long by now. Highest time to go to the drawing boards (displays...) again. Wait, wasn't that what was expected to be partially solved by merger with Embraer (manufacturer of the E-Jet series)? Well that deal now not taking place, lets hope they don't take any emergency solutions similar to MCAS... the temptation must be high :(
Excellent video, far more interesting than I was expecting. Thanks.
You finally have your 737 in the intro!! Cool to see that😄
Interesting topic. Just for information sake. I flew on that Ethiopian 737 Max that crashed 4 days before from Johannisburg to Addis Abbeba. As that specific plane was scheduled -Johannisburg-Addis, Addis Nairobi daily. Hope the problems is sorted. Will fly them again.
I think you’d like that climb performance, so I think you’re one of those who want it!
Great explanation how efficient airline financing works. The beauty in the arrangement is how it converts a debit by a bank loan into liquidity. Presumably banks are still involved in this kind of financing, are they not?
So..., excuse me for not being an economist but an engineer, isn't this arrangement very similar to those repackaged house-sub-prime-loans of 2008 fame? At least at these times, few, if any non-freight operations would look that healthy and the dominos could start falling one after the other?
@@NirreFirre Yes but the people who thought out the construction will have received their bonuses already by then and the share holders will have diversified their investments after the shares went up after the first positive numbers went out.
@@NirreFirre Not really. In this case, what you basically have are banks that specialize in buying and leasing airframes. The airlines have to provide a huge amount of privileged financial information to the banks, so the banks are doing their due diligence in assuring that the airline will be able to afford the terms of the lease.
The subprime loans of the 2000's were characterized by their being marketed as something other than what they were: junk bonds that should have never had AAA rating. The banks and stock trading firms that created and sold them purposely made them hard to analyze for risk, and the wide spread throughout the portfolios of 401k and pension management firms as so-called low-risk investments made the collapse much more widespread than if it had just been a bunch of banks left holding the bag on a bunch of failed mortgages. TLDR subprime bonds were basically a pack of lies sold as a pot of gold, and the banks made bank off of them and then got the bailouts that should've gone to the people who lost their homes.
Yes ! You are 100% correct.
Under normal market conditions the knowledgeable loans people are open-eyed and never have "a real downside"on the loans.
But... the market is NOT normal.
I would add on many unknowns to my margin. So a huge profit or why do the lease back.
** The money flow is to fast, because the government is forcing the market. Many want to just, wait and see. ( caution )
@@ashesofempires04 yeh that would be true had the banks not repackaged the securities as AAA and sold off to some poor buggers soon as they found out the issues at boeing.
Beautifully explained. Clear easy to understand.good teaching, even a six year old could understand. It's a real skill to explain a potentially complicated subject in such an easy to understand way.👍
A good topic would be about the landing gear of the planes and how strong the gears are and the systems that operate the landing gear on planes and do they ever collapse
They do collapse. Safran and Liebrehher make landing gears. Top companies
In light of the viciousness of the covid19 shutdowns and the impact on pilots and their economic stability, I was always curious as to how the airline industry dealt with issues of mental health maintenance, specifically airline pilots who may regularly engage professional therapists ( while actively employed or are in transition between jobs). How are pilots treated if their background information includes a record of mental therapist counseling sessions? Is therapist counseling for commercial aviators encouraged in the industry, or are therapy visits viewed with suspicion and disfavor among airline companies and recruiters?
should rename it Boeing 2020... that would fit better
That would fit the usual despicable market strategies. People already tend to forget things too easily, so let's keep that name instead.
@@sym667 They are already trying to pass it off as the "-8" so that people don't see the designation "MAX" on them and refuse to book / fly on them. Boeing being devious, once again, and employing underhand tactics to dupe the public.
@@cuttight It's possible that no MAX will ever have problems again, but what is disconcerting is that money and market prevail even on safety. This is shameful.
@@sym667 A lot of things are possible but the laws of probability say I'll be safer in another plane than the MAX, so I'll pass on any airlines and routes that utilise the MAX.
@@cuttight laws of probability say that you will die on asteroid impact more likely than on single flight but that chance of dying on asteroid impact is actually zero since there's no such asteroids.
Greetings from Singapore 🇸🇬 this video is informative 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻 a better understanding! I’m not gonna fly with a Boeing 737 if I can avoid it.
SE-RSA (registration of the plane in mentour's intro) really exists....it's A359...is it secret hint for Petter's new job/employer? :D
Registrerad innehavare
SAS Sverige AB
Many think he works for Ryanair because he once said he had turnaround times of 25 minutes, which Ryanair has, and if you search what airline he flies for on google, according to LinkedIn, it's Ryanair.
@@tims4654 he flies for Ryanair he was the captain on my flight from Birmingham 🤣
Not just that, he mentioned having flown from Girona airport in another video. Only Ryanair flights there.
@@tims4654 It's no big secret which airline he flies for - a quick Google search reveals that in seconds. Just he never mentions them in his videos (he has explained why in several of the Q & A sessions he does live).
I love the big chair with the green and red port and starboard blankets! One thing i noticed was a little distracting is that the chair would wiggle around when you wave your arms but maybe that's just me
The chair is actually a disguised astronauts position awareness testing rig that turns and moves in three dimensions !
I worked for one of their suppliers. I wouldn't put my family on that plane I know too much. The LEAP engine is a modern Marvel, but there's some fundamental flaws in the design of the rest of the plane.
These engines make the airplane too nose heavy. Simple.
Thank you for the update.
Question for you: Did you always use the port & starboard colours for you sofa pillows & armrest covers? I am assuming that is the significance of them. I do like it.
Very informative! QUESTION: When we see the 737 MAX flying at high angles of attack in the Boeing promotional video footage, why didn't MCAS activate and force the nose down? Would you imagine that the test pilots had flipped the STAB TRIM CUTOUT switches before the maneuver?
I suppose flaps were still extended during that manoeuvre. Mcas is only supposed to activate in very specific situations, such as when the engines are in full thrust, nose is pitching up and flaps are retracted
@@valet2972 That, and assuming the AOA sensor was working, MCAS would also work perfectly well.
In the promotional video, the aircraft looks like it's in an almost-90-degree climb. It isn't -- that's just the camera angle. Commercial aircraft can't do that kind of thing.
@@beeble2003What degree of angle is it?
@@rockslide4802 Numbers on the internet suggest about 40-50 degrees and note that, even at that angle, the aircraft doesn't have enough thrust to accelerate upwards, so it's actually slowing down and needs to level off to continue flying.
The economics of the aviation industry would be really interesting to me. I don't mean ticket priced, but how airlines are insured, how those insurance companies balance their risk, how the airline industry thinks ahead and remains solid, etc.
I would not fly the max. There has never been such a large number of airplanes that have been grounded for a staggering 20 months. Furthermore, we are now trusting the same airlines, authorities and manufacturer that told us that this plane was safe before...
Yeah, what I heard this guy say was don't fly Southwest.
I flew on the 737 MAX before the MCAS bug was even discovered. It was honestly a really nice experience, better than a 737-8 or a320.
The aerospace industry has some of the most stringent and toughest regulations in the world, hence why air travel has been so safe, just bc there has been a major error has occurred in one plane and specifically one system on the plane is no reason to think that the industry on the whole has somehow magically gotten terribly worse bc it hasn't... logic and reason over feelings buddy, they are much less likely to lead you astray....
@@metatron5199 There's not a lot of logic or reason. Thirty years ago it was said that it took two crashes to ground an aircraft type, because the first one would always be blamed on pilot error, and the statement holds today, too. If the goal were perfect, or even "better" safety, then you'd be right. But that's not the goal. The goal of Boeing is to slide by with the minimum to meet regulatory compliance, with the understanding that that's all that is expected of them. True for Airbus as well. But Boeing made too big of a hack, and lied about it, and got caught....and most importantly there was no way to hide it. So they had to take the timeout of the grounding, until they could come up with a good enough explanation to allow the hack again. And here we are.
Even more evidence arrived today regarding manipulation of FAA test during the initial certification of the MAX. I will say this again: I would not fly the MAX, and will actively try to prevent family and friends getting on these planes.
EDIT: Boeing even manipulated the tests for the recertification process. This is **** unacceptable
LOL, I just noticed your chair's "nav lights." Very clever! "Red right returning!"
All the CEOs should fly in that plane for a round the world trip, and pay for it!
Hi there Petter!
I don't want to stray from the topic with my question, but I'm sorry, i shall; I've been waiting for the topic to appear for far too long and now my patience has failed me.
I'll be quickest if you let me first explain myself with few premises:
-The air pressure is the weight of the air column from the surface of the sea and up and up away... till "the top"
- the heavier the air is, the greater is the pressure
- the more dispensed particles are in the air- like tiny water droplets, smog etc, the heavier the air will be.
Right?
My question is:
Why the.. do they say the air pressure is low when the air is full of moistureand high when there are no clouds!?!?!?
Isn't it that when it's full of moisture that it's the heaviest and the lightest air pressure is when there are no clouds/ pollutants in the air!?!
You're very coherent when explaining things and I put great expectations in you, that you'll be able to give me a satisfying answer.
Excellent video. Clearly shows what the concerns of airlines are, and that “your safety is our main concern” is just marketing spin.
That Sir was a very subtle and succinct comment.
The Max will be the most scrutinized aircraft ever. IE it will be the safest aircraft in the sky
@@richarnold1224 If thye MAX never crashes again it has already lost that title with 346 dead people to its name.
The scrutiny has shown that Boeing is no longer an engineering business and that the FAA was run by Boeing. Its proved nothing more about the MAX than that it was a bloody disaster waiting to happen.
@@richarnold1224, I cannot understand people like you willing to board unstable machine which has to be corrected with autonomic software solution proved to be fatally flawed in the dark past of 737MAX.
60 years old airframe, to big and too powerful engines, insufficient amount of sensors, very poor quality control and overall low quality of the final product with F.O.D and other trash and tools, rugs and hidden junk, left and forgotten in the bodies of the MAXimum failure.
*You cannot put modern F1 engine to 1964 Pontiac GTO with serious manufacturing issues* *:D*
*Does not look safe to me in any way* :)
It is strong *NO* from me
In my personal opinion MAX will always be a fatally flawed aircraft patched with ad-hoc fixes and walkaround solutions where due to hideous and ruthless corporate desire to enrich and increase profits, 345 people died.
I just read that Canada is not going to follow FAA and they will not certifie the MAX for now. They will focus on their own assessment.
I don't blame them :D
EASA same. They will eventually approve MAX accordingly to their own assessment.
*FAA said that MAX is safe already 2years ago* ...
Boeing in my opinion is a low quality company managed by thugs, without respect for human life, with a hideous and ruthless desire to enrich and increase profits.
That is how I see it and how I truly feel about it.
I flew with MAX between the two crashes... I cannot stand that Boeing put me in risk because of their greed.....
The brand is completely condemned by me.
I will pay more, I will waste my time to go around. I will do everything just to avoid Boeing planes. I will rebook, cancel, wait, reschedule everything else, etc.
The whole brand become cheap and low quality imho.
Boeing got screened very well and now poor quality control, lack of quality assurance is coming to see the day light. New issues are piling up. Few weeks ago they discovered new flaws with the 787. Low quality manufacturing process. Weeks ago they grounded few thousands of 737 NGs because cheap parts corroded in the engines.... Etc etc....
Boeing is low quality brand in my honest opinion. They chosen wrong path, they chosen savings in expense of quality and safety. In my opinion the whole MAX fiasco just represents the pure corporate greed which is unacceptable in the business where people lives are at stake. Low quality products and very poor quality control imho. Problems everywhere recently. Cracks in vital body parts in older NG's resulting in grounding of hundreds or thousands of planes. Corroded engine parts in NG's resulting in grounding of another thousands in recent weeks. Engine problems with 787's. Recent 787s low quality components manufacturing issues. Rugs and cloths and tools and other debris in the bodies of 737-8 (MAX), not to mention other problems with the sour MAX lemon. Recent space department fiascos as well. It does not look good at all... *I prefer to pay more for a ticket and go with Airbus in general* I am happy that I live in Europe and this is easy achievable. I like quality. I ride safe hi-tech motorbike, my car is modern and safe. Also, when I fly (I fly not much, up to 10 flights a year), I prefer to choose the highest quality possible. Boeing does not offer it according to my standards. That is why I will be avoiding all Boeing aircrafts. I will pay more and rebook just to avoid it. That is how I feel today. I flew with MAX between two crashes.... My blood is still freezed when I think about it. *Scarry* !!! Maybe after many years I will change my mind if Boeing will ramp up the overall quality of the company.
Bart h
Shut up already and stay in your basement
I always thought it was a mistake to use the 737 platform for the Max, as it's engines are too big for it. Some work around would have to be used (In this case Software) that usually comes back to bite you at some point. Which this one did. I always thought the best platform for this, would be the 757, you wouldn't have any issue fitting the engine, was also a direct competitor to the A320-321. My question though, if Boeing went this route, do you think they could have achieved similar or better efficiencies?
They should have done more than just the engines and some other stuff. They should have modeled the new 737 MAX as a mini 787 Dreamliner. The 787 Dreamliner is by far my favorite plane ever. I have never had a preference one way or another but after riding in a 787 Dreamliner I can safetly say it flies like a dream. They should use the same technology in all of their planes from now on even if it's a bit more costly. It's the only plane where I can say it's revolutionary and a big step in the right direction. Absolutely beautiful.
A smaller 787 meant for shorter flights would be amazing and make everyone feel much safer. It's a far superior platform.
Hello there
I work for an aerospace company and I produce composite materials for Boeing and my question is, what do they do with the older aircraft that has reached their service life?
They go into long-term storage - Most of them go into storage facilities in various deserts.
They will go to a parting out facility that will strip down the airplane, first removing reusable parts before the rest is torn down and scrapped.
Excellent report. Your points are illustrated by Southwest Airlines having 493 737-700s, down from 512 as they have already started retiring them. The current fleet has some that were delivered in 1998 so they are ready for turnover anyway. Replacing them with new fuel efficient jets under warranty (low maintenance costs as you said) makes the Max a great idea. I guess that’s why Southwest has 280 Max’s on order with only 34 delivered so far. With the backlog of grounded Max’s soon to be delivered, Boeing should get a cash flow shot in the arm in the first half of 2021. Good news for Boeing, Southwest, and the good ole USA. Sorry to many of you who hate hearing that.
Does the maintenance honeymoon include compensation to the families of the dead passengers?
It's a MentourSideChat! I love it! Great content as usual.
Would be nice of they make a new genertion plane to replace the 737. The 737 has run its course.
Should have happened long ago. Such an old airframe with big engines bodged onto it.
It would be great, because it would be safer, lighter, and less expensive per each to make, but it requires a significant investment and testing, so they took the cheaper, albeit more dangerous and lower quality solution of moving the engines out of line and using a bit of a hack to try to fix it.
Nice new intro Mentour! 😎✈️🤙🏾
Topic for future video: If you are starting up a new airline how do you entice captains to through away their seniority and start fresh?
That is a good question! Interesting.
£$€
You put the law down on them. Set strict rules, let them know they’re replaceable if they don’t follow the rules!