Canada’s Air Force Crisis
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- Опубліковано 25 лис 2023
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Mike hosts Billie Flynn to discuss everything you need to hear about the Royal Canadian Air Force.
All is not right in Canada, and their Air Force has atrophied in several key areas. What happened? Why are the fighter pilots quitting? Can they still contribute to NATO? Is it too late to fix it? Tune in for answers!
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Billie Flynn
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Show Notes
(01:29) intro
(07:48) The Royal Canadian Air Force
(08:45) How Canada got F-18s
(17:54) NORAD and Canada
(21:40) Why Canada matters to US defense
(24:27) The RCAF’s key maritime mission
(32:50) Canada’s F-35 debacle
(44:33) losing the fighter pilot
(52:25) how to fix the RCAF?
(56:48) outro
For those interested in #canada #military #technology #strategy #airforce #NATO #podcast #militarynews
It's insane we've reached this point. Absolute negligence on the part of the entire country.
Trudeau is acting on-bahalf of the Russians and Chinese.
Russia recognized the problem way ahead of the game, mainly through their extensive network of moles in NORAD, US DoD, and RCAF.
The big threat to Russian bomber ingress is the vast network to be formed by USAF Alaska, RCAF, and ANG Vermont via the JSF MADL web.
Especially networked with drum roll.........maritime patrol aircraft like the P-8A Poseidon, the JSF NORAD fleet will bring unprecedented strategic SA to the Northern Hemisphere.
Trudeau set Canada and NORAD back a decade in this regard. He's a cursed traitor to his countrymen and needs to be held accountable for his inexcusable conduct.
thanks loving the show
Yep. My father was in RCAF during the 60's station at Coldlake as 104 engineer. As well as is a good friend who was F18 pilot about 20 ywars ago. Both talk about how bad it is now. Biggest political disaster
Is part of Canada’s issue that the general population assumes the U.S. military will cover their butts (which is the EU’s problem too)? So, that paired with a pacifist strain, equals big problems?
@@The_ZeroLine The issue is Canada has never had to fight for anything in its existence. Notice I said "had to", not chose to. It was granted independence from England without much of even asking, and Quebec - the most politically powerful province has just whined for everything it has been given within Canada, and its population is the most left leaning in the country. Very anti-war and like much of the rest of Canada smugly anti-American. We are "better than them", which often translates into whatever the Americans are doing we should do the opposite.
So all that to say, pretty much yes.
Contrast Canada with Australia, which had some of its citizens taken prisoner in WW2, as Japan's advance got very up close and personal to that country. Now look at their military today - in terms of capability not just spending - and you might notice a different response to the increased threat in the Pacific.
I'm a Canadian born, dual Australian/Canadian Citizen. My Mum's father was in the RCAF and flew Lancasters in WW2, and was in a Sabre Squadron in Germany. My brother and his wife both joined the RCAF and retired after long careers. I was in the RCAF briefly, but ended up in Australia and joined the Australian Army and was a rotary wing pilot. My Dad's family were Aussies and have a long legacy in the Australian military. The difference between the RCAF & the RAAF is stark. The RAAF is a modern, well equipped Air Arm with AWACS, F-35, FA-18F, EF-18G, JORN etc, while the RCAF is a hollowed out shell of what it used to be. The Aussies are a fighting force, the Canadians are a "Peace Keeping" Force, and the Canadian Gov't barely cares about the military, the opposite of how the Australian Gov't thinks. Australia knows it's at the sharp end, on its own, and learned the lessons of WW2 when they were abandoned by the UK, while Canada seems to think it's more of an irritant to have a military and only does the bare minimum to meet its NATO & NORAD obligations. The Canadian Gov't uses military procurement as an election football. It breaks my heart to see how far the RCAF has fallen. Gov't bungling has left the military in dreadful shape, and they have not served the wonderful people, who serve them in the Defence Force, well at all. It's disgraceful.
The Australian Army, too, is significantly better equipped than Canadian Army almost anywhere you look, from the rifles to the rotary to the tanks and artillery.
And the Navies... MAN! Insane difference. Australia could, if it really wanted to, get carrier fixed wing aviation. It'd be kinda dumb, so Australia won't, but it's possible. Canada barely has frigates and submarines. Their readiness is terrible, their weapons outdated.
While some of what you say is true not all it is, Australia has many shortfalls in its military aswell and it is considerably smaller than Canada's plus the fact that Australia is not encumbered by constant calls from NATO and the United nations with their hand out plus the enormous scale of our territory in which you could lose Australia in
....
Eh? Australia is about 80% the size of Canada, and is nearly as wide as Canada is from sea to sea.
Canada's military is also not much larger than Australia's.
Canada:
68,000 active
27,000 reserve
Australia:
60,330 active personnel
29,740 reserve@@BradFalck-mn3pc
Single digit % difference.
@@BradFalck-mn3pc and what United Nations commitments encumber us, exactly........? Does anyone at all recognize Canada's status in "peacekeeping", other than Canadians patting ourselves on the back?
Every. Single. Area of military procurement in Canada is bungled beyond belief. How exactly do you describe the Leo 2A4/2A6 rollercoaster? Our sad, sad chronically ill subs? Our new icebreakers that are still nowhere to be found, even though they're the societally progressive/politically palatable procurement item? Between the former DDGs, current FFGs, and the Type 26 deal Navy still can't decide on its own identity. Mediocre F35 deal was replaced by an equally mediocre F35 deal, but now appallingly late and actually a terrible deal after wasting all that time and taxpayer money on a "competition"? Geriatric CP-140 still has to labour on because the lay Canadian thinks copium headcanon > P-8? Absolute dinosaur Hornets expected to..........do what exactly, with their APG-73s? And we bought more of the dinosaurs from Australia, to keep in that state because again we can't put 100% into any decision including APG-79v4 retrofit.
I don't think anyone is under the illusion that Australia is perfect, but everyone is damn near perfect when measured against Canada as a benchmark.
@@superfamilyallosauridae6505it's not the personnel differences, it's the quality of its equipment,and capabilities, that give Australia's military the edge over Canada's military in 2023!!
Watching from Canada. Thank you for doing this episode!
As a young infantry soldier I remember the proud day when the Hornets arrived in Baden, Germany in the mid eighties…State of the art with a lot of pride
There still building state of the art F18s and there a lot cheaper than F22
l remember that day also! 2PPCLI rules.
@@brendanmorrissey2104 VP Dirty Patricia
And yet us RCD were given Leopard one toy tanks in Lahr. The German’s begged us to replace them with Leopard two’s to no avail
I remember when the CF 18’s showed up and the 104’s left Lahr
I served in the RCAF for 23 years. Billie Flynn spells it out clearly and right on point. I was part of the initial cadre training when the Hornet was broughy into Canadian service.
The politicians of all stripes are the major reason for the current status of the RCAF.
they've kneecapped the entire Canadian Armed forces as well it's pretty brutal from what I've been hearing our Leopard 2 fleet is in a sorry state of disrepair. A lot of the ground forces equipment is in need of outright replacement as even tho it's been pretty well cared for it's just worn out. And I honestly think we need to bring our defense spending upto 3% of gdp just to modernize things to the point we're not in deep trouble if russia or china decides to cause problems and unless we get the Ukrainians a lot more equipment that war will drag on for at least the next 5 years. And putin has outright stated he would not be happy with just Ukraine.
Who is invading Canada?
Russia after two years can not even finish its invasion of right next door Ukraine by land
They sure are not beach landing on much further away Canada
Geography, NATO and a superpower bordering neighbor is Canada's defence .
The numbed into oblivion populace demanded (at least allowed) this state of disrepair.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Dear Billie, please do not return to Canada
Did a Maple Flag exercise at Cold Lake years ago in an F-111 and flew into Canada in a B52 to allude the Voodos. Those Canadians are top notch. I am half Canadian French so I totally respect those brothers to the north.
French Canadian*
Sorry I had to 😂
@@snakeoo7caCanadien, oui!
Retired Canadian Forces Officer here. What Billie says is so true and sad. Justin Bronk nailed it. Love him. Proud Canadian, embarrassed of our politicians!!
I wish ... Biden would invade and get it over with !!!
@@DarkpawTheWolf yes good guess but no Justin Bronk’s evaluation of our airforce.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
Who is your enemy tho? What are you really defending? Neither Russia nor China has expeditionary military capability. Nothing wrong with 4th Gen fighters with modern missiles.
Guess we need to cut ties with the US
Canada's military has been ignored for over 3 decades by BOTH ruling parties. This was deliberate ignorance. Canada has not had responsible government for over 50 years.
3 decades or 50 years....
i mean, people forget that canada is one of the prime investitors of the f35 program and developper. just canadians voted to leave the program with trudeau and it threw the rcaf in a terrible political loop to scramble. now we have to rebuy ourselves into the 2nd and third line maintenance programs trudeau had to PAY TO LEAVE
Didn't you hear? It's actually because of *socialism*! /s
Don't worry, Trudeau's buddies will get their share@@invertedv12powerhouse77
Well there are two trains of thought. One is with the end of the cold war how much money should the country spend on defence? The other is finding that sweat spot that provides for our national defence while spreading funding across all the branches in the military.
Such a spot on assessment of Canada’s military procurement process! The bean counters view Canada’s capital class ships the same way: if they still float, then they are good to go. ‘Saving pennies, losing dollars’. It would be one thing if this was a ‘one of’ occurrence that Canada could learn from, but instead it’s how we roll. Spot on about Quebec’s whining into contracts that they can’t / don’t have the capability to fulfil at a responsible use of tax payers dollars.., but often tax dollars are shovelled down the gaping maw of whining Quebec businesses to the economic detriment of what Canada actually gets ‘bang for buck’ when cow-towing to Quebec.
Well the ships specifically are a handout to the Irvings and the East Coast provinces they own
Canada always loses to the whiners in Quebec who are pampered and spoiled by all political parties. Quebec plays English Canada for suckers by having Ottawa siphon off money out of productive provinces and giving it to La belle province along with forcing foreign investment and companies to locate in Quebec when they actually would prefer to be in Ontario.
FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
I noticed the downturn when I renlisted in 2009. I quit after one year.
waste of cash
Exactly what happened in New Zealand in the early 2000s. The RNZAF doesn't have fighters anymore as a consequence. The strike pilots all went to the RAAF where they were greatly appreciated. Very sad.
There are several Americans that fear that China will attack New Zealand on their way to take Austrailia.
Oh yes, I remember when New Zealand got rid of the fighter aircraft and then they went to buy helicopters and that’s it. They only had little. I think they were sea horns or something and they used to keep them in Australia thought they could train and now I’ve only got a few a few out of date helicopters and that’s it.
@@challanger275 Yeah, well, the likes of Jacinda and her predecessors could wipe their leftie hands of all that icky "war" stuff, all the while fully confident that the US would bail them out if push really came to shove.
What has happened in NZ, now with NO fighters what so ever, is a travesty. If it comes to fending off, any unfriendly incursions, They are entirely beholden to their cousins from OZ.
What is both astonishing and sad is it isn't just the Air Force in Canada. The Navy and Army are using ancient equipment that costs more to maintain by the day, and numbers are falling at a horrific rate. Leadership are disconnected and incompetent, politics are more concerned with virtue signaling within the CAF to display a message to the public then have a competent fighting force, and the commitment to deploying and exerting force is dragging the few members left into exhaustion. More than 70% of releases within the Navy a few years ago were Killicks (Leading Seaman/Corporals) not the people you want leaving to pursue careers elsewhere because they are more rewarding, with better compensation, more time at home. Those factors can be made up for by; comradery, cohesion, respect and trust amongst subordinates and leadership, but all those factors have long been missing in the CAF.
As an ex-Canadian - Canada relies on the US for many things including defense obligations - meanwhile Canadians look down their nose to Americans - cede NWT to USA - looks like the liberals dont want it anyway - if you cant defend than you have no rights to the land
Yeah it is sad that Canada stopped using M109 artillery purely for budget reasons. Only towed artillery left now which means the crews have no protection.
As the Russians have learned in ukraine, you need more corporals than colonels
A fair number of our warfighter's have made their way to Ukraine and as it is from what I've seen they willingly vacuum up the knowledge and experience and innovate on it from there.
The major issue in the Canadian Forces and RCAF is the unspoken policy of never speaking to the public. No one in Canada knows or cares who is in charge, what the mission is, heck, why there is a military at all. If the Canadian Forces leadership were willing to do interviews and have regular press conferences then possibly people will learn or care. But the absolute crickets that you hear from the military will always lead to a “who cares” attitude. Want more recruits? Maybe if there were actual commercials on that hyped up the military instead of put you to sleep, maybe if there was actual buzz about new equipment, maybe if people actually knew anything about the military other than WW2, then people may understand. To get recruits, to get equipment, means a wholesale change in culture. The next generation needs to see what they get out of a tour or a career in CF. What are the benefits? What schooling is available, what retirement benefits, what jobs outside the military are interested in Vets? Used to be people joined the military to become dentists, doctors, pilots, etc, now those people go to universities for that education because they don’t know it would be cheaper and more hands on getting that education through the military. So, really, Canadian Forces needs to hire a marketing company, and not one from Canada. 🇨🇦
Subsidized education programs are not the problem. They still attract plenty of great recruits. It's retaining them that's the problem. And recruiting more direct entrants.
Many of the qualifications the military certifies you in are not transferable to civilian industry. It keeps a lot of military trades short staffed.
Good point !
Because speaking outside of officially sanctioned channels is severely career limited. An officer who wants to climb above major will damned well shut his piehole.(is another politician)
As a former Canadian I had at. 20yrs of age a slot to join the RCAF but when I called my recruiter I was told that due to defence reduction I. Was not needed. Living a mile from up State New York I and my girl friend both joined the USAF. We were sent to different places separated by thousands of miles, which ended our romance. My first duty station was a small radar Site on a mountain in Southern Arizona. In 1967 I met a Wonderful young lady, and married her, she and I are still together with 3 daughters & a son.
Happy to hear it all worked out for you.
I was a Jarhead from ‘86 to ‘96, flying Hornets. The Canadian and Australian pilots I encountered were extremely proficient.
Think all military branches of the 5 eyes alliance are fairly equal because cross train and fight together so much.
Meet guys from all over that have stories of working with Australian SASR or Canada JTF2 and have nothing but praise for each other. same with navy and airforce etc.
I don't understand your post, Jarhead is a term from the U.S marines, not Canadian airforce pilots?
@@SpruceMoose-iv8un Let me help you understand. I was a U.S.M.C. F/A-18 pilot. We had Canadian, British, and Australian exchange pilots flying with us. Also, I got to fly with a whole Aussie squadron during a Cope Thunder in The Philippines.
Canadian Air Force combat ready is second to none, but they are defending a "FREELOADER SOCIETY". Canada is next to the most powerful country in the world so why would Canada spend more money on defense.
The first time I met Billie was on the flight line at Pax in 2014. He came out to a jet and I asked him about his pilot wings on his flight bag. “If you ask me if they’re Australian I’m goin to kick your ass”. Great guy, glad he’s still in the fight after “retirement”.
🤣
Didn't know it was this bad, especially with the P-8 situation.
Thumbs-up to a sobering truth
@@TheMergeMediaua-cam.com/video/p9QGO7hDGxw/v-deo.htmlsi=4_RILtlnxRkYSffB
Thanks Billie. Proud to have been part of the F18 program at 409 Tac (F) Sqn in Baden.
You are a respected pilot and advocate for better times in the RCAF.
I was given a very good piece of advice from a uncle that was career pilot in the RCAF and that was not to join .
I took that advice and had a 45 year career in the major airlines .
My dad and four other family members were war time pilots.
That was 50 years ago this year .
Billie nailed it on all counts. The RCAF is a mess, and I have as much scar tissue as he does.
Now the Canadian Liberal government is cutting
$15 billion from the military budget
@@murrayhelmer8941 Can't fix stupid
Back in 1980 I was a Canadian Air Cadet and got my private pilot licence. We still had the (F104, F5 and F101). Even though we were going to finally replace these aircraft with the F18 soon I did not join the military. I knew deep down that Canada underfunds it’s military ever since Pierre Trudeau came into power. Today it is even worse than in 1980 and the Trudeau 2.0 has cut it’s budget again. I am only 11 years older than the F18.
My error, I am 18 to 20 years older than the F18
I agree, but Harper's Conservative support for Canada's military really only amounted to a photo-op in the Arctic every year - they all do it, and it's terrible.
@@edmanzini3664 Just don't forget , a majority of the equipment was also procured by Pierre, including the CF-18.
@@girthbloodstool339 Ya, as its indicated its all vote pandering unfortunately Defense spending is part of it, and lets face it, most Canadians would rather spend it on healthcare and housing, even though those are in a sorry state now adays lol.
@@MetaliCanuck Part of the purchase price agreement for the hornet was a certain amount had to be spent in Canada. This was a milliion US spent at some business in Canada directly related to the hornet project. Mac Douglas had a carpet manufacturer in Quebec make a giant Canadian flag and shipped it to the first hornet roll out. If you look up the picture of that roll out the hornet is parked on it. the initial F35 buy included support companies in every provinces getting in on the deal. for instance the Joint helmet cct cards were contracted for maintenance in PEI. That is the difference between Conservative contracts and Liberals.
The whole of the Canadian Armed Forces is broken. Im a serving 30yrs cmbt veteran of the Army and why would any young man/women want to join an organization in dire straights. We have a government that does NOT support the CAF.
"You are asking for too much than we can give" Justin Trudeau
We need a modern navy in Canada.
5:22 - As a student of US History, I am convinced that Canada DID win the War of 1812. As a consequence of losing the war, Canada forced the US into taking Detroit, which caused much rejoicing and celebration in Windsor, Ontario.
"Peace loving" can be viewed as naive about world affairs. The US is a peace loving country...in fact the US loves peace so much that we're willing to sacrifice blood and national treasure to further it. The US does go to war, primarily because other countries don't/won't stand up to bullies.
"From what I have seen of our Russian friends and Allies during the war, I am convinced that there is nothing they admire so much as strength, and there is nothing for which they have less respect than for weakness, especially military weakness."......Winston Churchill: Delivered 5 March 1946 at Westminster College, Fulton, Missouri
Billy, thank you. I am also x RCAF but not nearly at your level, it is still so very depressing that a country with our economic power can not get to 2% of GDP on defence spending. The world is a very dangerous place and we need to step up. Again, Billy thank you.
Money itself doesn't mean anything good. Canada spends on base frigate as much as others are spending on a nuclear sub. The ultra corruption needs to be put to the curb.
Thanks Billie ... Call a spade a spade! Thanks Mike as well. I am a 39 year veteran Canadian fighter pilot. I was the instigator of the ACURL ... I ran up against the politics/theatrics/narcissism and lost in 2013. I so totally agree with Billie's assessment and thank him (and you) for being real and raising the proverbial BS flag. We're not there yet though ... given our governments cut backs on their recent promises.
I had no idea that the RCAF was in such sorry shape. Thanks for having Billie Flynn on. I followed him in the instagram right after watching this.
Compared to Australia. Canada is so far behind
Canada is like New Zealand they both have a bigger brother nearby to help them out if ever get in trouble so don't really bother with military equipment.
Australia not much better except stepped it up once China became a threat 15 years ago. now going full hard in to hypersonics and AI drones and equipment to bolster a small population and a big country to defend.
Its taken for granted that Canada is under the protection of the CONUS USAF umbrella. It;'s not right, but that's
been taken for granted.
I'm Canadian and as a Canadian I am very embarrassed by our lack of support to our defense responsibilities and of support to our men and women protecting us by the sad state of modern equipment for them. We have some of the most fierce professional personnel in our military but sadly as mentioned we are losing them due to our Government failing them. The defense of the North is our responsibility as a nation and it's time we as Canadians pressure our Government to support our hero's asap in precuring the necessary equipment such as the new next gen fighters so they can fulfill their mission.
Very interesting interview and thank you
Billie being a fixed wing guy, you didn't even get to touch on the TWO chopper fiascos; that cluster fornication would need its own Netflix miniseries. I single movie wouldn't do it justice. Pentagon Wars has nothing on that procurement disaster.
It’s a disgrace that our military is at this state
Agreed.
Great guest, this gentleman is an incredible storyteller. I wish Canada would support their talent. Mike should have prepped more for a guy of this caliber, and changed the tone of the show.
A friend's son applied to join the RCAF about 18 months ago. He had all the right qualifications and references. But, after being given the runaround for a year he gave up. Sad.
My son who mwas a dual citizen and received his pilots lience through the cadet program was going to apply to the Canadian airforce When my wife cousin husband who was a USNaval captain said was don't you apply to become on Naval aviator.After 4 years in the US Naval Academy he went on to receive his wings
Love the show!
Thank you for all you’re doing!
😎 Thank you!
I think Canada's defence problems track back to 1991. Canada, like most of Europe, bought hard into this peace dividend. As a result Canada rapidly began to neglect its military. In my day and service, it was the sea king. I can sit here and go through the list. Sea King to EH-101, Canada class replacement of Oberons...etc. Things are bad now, but it only gets better from here. The war in the Ukraine is a game changer. No one talks about the peace dividend. The fact is Canada dug itself a huge hole. Some good things are happening, but much more is needed. However, a change in Canada's political climate is needed. Canada has to shift from seeing itself as a non-waring nation to a non-waring nation that is prepared to defend itself. I don't see that happening with the current generation of politicians.
Fantastic insight. Thanks so much for this interview.
Another great episode, thanks Mike!
Very eye opening briefing. Thanks so much and thanks for all the pods. Enjoy them all!
Thanks!
*A hockey sock full of money*
If you played hockey you know that hockey socks are open at the top of course, but also open at the bottom too. So it's really a tube!
Keep putting money in the top and it falls out the bottom. A bottomless hole is how I interpret the old saying.
Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
I did not know that (never played hockey!)
An eye-opening topic! Thank you for connecting us with this overarching view behind the curtain of the Canadian fighter force these recent years. Very educational and informative.
I would have like to have seen Canada go with the Saab Gripen.
I know half a dozen people leaving the Navy due to old equipment and taking the cost of living away in Esquimalt
I appreciate your input and service. Semper Fi
Great show Mike. Great guest. Started watching your show after seeing you on Ward Carroll. I get your newsletter too. Awesome. Thanks
Thanks for the support--spread the word!
I left the RCAF 5 years ago after being in a position that had me visit all RCAF Wings and chat with all squadron COs and Wing Commanders. There is so much I could tell and I know it's gotten much worse since then.
I graduated from university in 1969 and applied for aircrew training in the Canadian Air Force. Out of 39 applicants that year, after undergoing extensive medical, physical, and aptitude examinations myself and 8 other candidates were selected for training. I received my orders to report to Victoria for officer training with a stop in Winnipeg to go through high-altitude testing. The week before I was to leave i got a telegram (only in Canada) asking me to report to the recruiting office in Ottawa where I was resident. On attending i was informed that the air force did not have enough money in their budget that year and they had to cancel the entire class, but I could join the Navy if I wanted because they had room and a bit of money left. Pierre started the destruction of the Canadian armed forces and the process has continued, particularly under Trudeau Jr.
similar to my experience in !974
It's a bizarre take given that this is the government that has committed to buying the F-35s, P-8s and 330MRTTs. And all of those are now firm orders. There hasn't been a government that committed this much to the RCAF arguably since the 80s.
As a Canadian, as a Québecer. With a mother who worked at CAE during this time frame. It was absolutely amazing to be able to connect some dots. Thank you for this pod cast
Good Morning, Spotted the * FAVOR * comment this morning and checked it out. Up to this point I haven't been much into Podcast, but as it turns out I was in the " Love It " category. I Thoroughly enjoyed the topic and found the whole conversation very enlightening. I will have to go back and check out some of the past shows. Congratulations on making your goal of 20 Podcast this year and keep up the great work.
Thanks for listening!!
Canada needs better leadership.
No KIDDING !!!
I remember watching a few videos of Billie promoting the f35 program for Canada as the lead test pilot, was really proud to see a Canuck part of the program, especially hearing him talk so passionately about the fighter and what it can do, probably the best advocate we could have hoped for. Unfortunately every facet of Canadian politics is just an emotional rollercoaster, im sorry he had to bare witness to the political procurement mess.
Love the informative content, with experts in the field.
PAKO very interesting stuff. Really like your channel. You, Mooch, Justin, fighter pilot podcast, all great information. Thanks 👍😁
Australians should take note about the effect of a socialist government on the Defence force. Just two + years of a Labor government here has seen a 2% of GDP Defence budget now put on course to a 1.6% budget by 2027-8. Already the option of an extra 28 F35As has been canned. The Navy and Army are set to be much worse off. Ignore the AUKUS hype about nuclear powered subs. It won’t happen with the current decision makers
This is one of the effects of everyone assuming America can and will do everything for everyone else in terms of defense.
Even in US we are having extreme problems within the USAF.
Like what? @@thefew.theproud.19Kilo
Yeah, look at what the US is doing for Ukraine. So ya know the US would bend over backwards to assist it's great neighbor and friend.
@@noahway13😂
@@noahway13We’re spending basically zero dollars in Ukraine. 80% of what we’ve given them are arms that were already being scrapped (at great expense), retired or soon to be retired. It was also paid for 40 years ago. So, besides a very few limited areas, we’re not actually having to spend money on the military aid. Moreover, because our stuff is performing so well, like the M270 / HIMARS, which was introduced in the ‘80s and PATRIOT, we’re getting a massive amount of new orders. So, more American jobs and income and tax revenue. And Russian arms sales have tanked. Worth every penny. And pennies is what it’s cost. Less than 1% of our annual defense budget.
Awesome interview,....Learned a hell of a lot!!!
Billie Flynn is such a well spoken person. Seen him on other pods and he is great.
Canada needs to figure out an exchange program with the US/UK/AUS F-35 program to maintain skills learn tactics and combat readiness for when their F-35 airframes arrive
Very good video. I was stationed in Baden-Baden as an infantryman in 1984 when we started getting the CF18 Hornets. I remember listening to the CF104's squealing every morning when going on a 10K run. In 1989, I transitioned to the RCAF as a Communication and Radar System technician and I was at the Canadian Forces School of Aerospace Engineering and Technologies when Golf War 1 broke out. When I competed my training, i was in Comox primarily working on the CP140 Aurora avionics and the Command and Control systems on Harris and Litton systems.
The Politicians have always f#ucked over the troops for politics. Not just the Airforce, but look at military vehicle procurement as well. and Bombardier has been squarely in the middle of both.
Scary.
We're all missing something IMPORTANT: Our bureaucracy is ineffective. See: Phoenix Pay System. FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
I have fond memories attending an air show at the base in Baden Baden ( I think it was in a town called Buehl) Great show.
@seangregory4339 Yes, it would have been Bühl about 15 Km south of the base. I was back a few years ago for a visit.
I made an exchange visit to an RCAF MPA base in Nova Scotia back in 1970 to show off our brand new P3C aircraft. The RCAF was planning to retire their Argus a/c . I was a P3 RAg instructor at the time. I was very impressed with the professionalism of the RCAF MPA folks I met. My enduring memory is the hangar was so spotless you could eat on it😅. They bought the P3 a no brainer😂 😂😂😂
Great podcast, thanks! We need to know this ...
Great insight!
Just Curious - would a bunch of the New F15EX's been a better fit for the roles Canada Has in NORAD and NATO. THe F-35 is a great plane but what does Canada need stealth for??? We need long range and QRA - neither of which really describes the F-35........
The EX isn’t being bought by anyone else and is quite expensive whereas the F-35 is comparatively cheap
F-15EX would have been very expensive.... probably more than the F-35A. People are also hung up on the "does Canada need a stealth aircraft". Stealth was never a requirement nor was it a reason we're getting the F-35. The systems capabilities are the biggest reason...the fact it's stealthy is just an added bonus. As for the F-35 range......Canadian CF-18s generally carry three external fuel tanks to increase range. The F-35 has the same fuel load, but all internal. As for QRA, Norway has been using them for QRA, Italy (I believe), the Swiss will be using them for QRA, so Canada will be able to use the F-35 in the same role.
F-15EX would be far cheaper than F-35A. They have similar cost to acquire the aircraft but F-35 requires expensive extra stealth maintenance facilities and ongoing maintenance costs for that stealth. Less than half the flight hour cost with F-15EX and many more maximum flight hours for the aircraft. F-35 have to pay for stealth even when it provides no useful utility during peacetime air policing. F-15EX are really a better bargain for Canada’s needs. They still can provide useful service for NATO deployments by providing stand off missile truck capability. F-15EX also has a very large powerful radar that isn’t artificially restricted in operation modes by stealth requirements. Legacy F-15s served well in Alaska and F-15EX is even more reliable and requires even less maintenance. F-35A requires a lot of downtime to keep that stealth in top condition which is reflected by lower availability rates.
@@stupidburp the F-35A costs around 82.5million dollars per plane the F-15EX costs around 90million and Canada desperately needs to upgrade its fighter infrastructure anyway
@@stupidburp Sorry, but no. Everyone is hung up on stealth when it's not really part of the conversation. The F-15EX is going to be built in small numbers for the US Air National Guard for continental air defense, so yes, acquisition cost will be more than the F-35A. While new hangar facilities are being built in Canada, the F-35 has served in spots where there isn't even hangar space available, so the aircraft are sitting out in the elements. So the notion it has to have specialized hangars is false. One can also look at the deployments of the F-35B and C aboard ships and see that specialized hangars are not required.
Canada does not need a "missile truck", Canada needs a state of the art, multi-role aircraft to carry out both air-to-air and air-to-ground missions and survive in a high threat environment when needed. The F-35 also brings ISR capability to the RCAF, which it has never had with the CF-18 and won't get with the F-15EX.
Going back to the missile truck thing....no F-15EX is ever going to fly with 12 missiles hanging off of it. Only time that would be feasible is if the Us is being invaded. That, and it degrades the performance of the jet in terms of power, maneuverability and fuel consumption.
First time I've found this channel, very cool content
This was so well done. It makes a huge difference when the interviewer does their homework, asks great questions and is respectful to the guest.
❤ most people don't understand the prep required -- its how we role when we invite people on the show to discuss important topics.
Great conversation; and although I was aware of much of the general content as an ex RCAF pilot, Billie shed a ton of insight and new info I was wholly unaware of. Nice to see the content on this particular channel. Go figure, it takes an American channel for a Canadian to see this topic covered in such a comprehensive way.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great show!
This was entertaining. Great interview with a brilliant guest. Thank you
Always enjoy listening to Billie speak. Always has great insights
The bottom line is that there is far too much bureaucracy in the Canadian government when it comes to military procurement. More or less there's too many foxes in the hen house and no one is accountable due to the lack of leadership. There are to many layers of government duplication and excessive overlap between the roles of the Minister of National Defence, Minister of Public Services and Procurement Canada. Until one person is in charge of the three branches of government and is accountable for the final decision, the future, unfortunately will be the same dog and pony show when it comes to procuring military equipment for our militray serving members.
It's NOT "socialism" that drives the Bombardia move, it's nationalism; all of our technology has gone to the States; we are left as miners, farmers and lumbermen providing resources for the U.S.A. Look back at what happened to the Avro Arrow; where did all of those engineers go? My father flew a Lanc in the R.C.A.F. during WW2 and my one grandfathers who served in WW1, signed up again in the Cdn Army in WW2. As a C.S.M. in a tank cor, he was training men with wooden rifles in '39 when we declared war. Sadly for Canada we always leave ourselves in a mess until the crunch comes. But it's not socialism!
To NASA
I'm a dual citizen of US and Canada, lived in both countries, served as an officer in U.S. Army. I like to keep abreast of all things military, geopolitical, etc. Great, informative podcast. Fantastic insights from people in-the-know. Thanks bunches!
Awesome show, and thank you for inviting Billy to speak about the Royal Canadian Air Force. I subscribed to your channel instantly and will be following up with your work. Cheers.
Thanks! Don't forget to check out the newsletter in the show notes. It's loaded with knowledge bombs!
@TheMergeMedia my pleasure! I will certainly do that. Thank you very much, and Happy New Year in advance.
RCAF vet. I appreciate the words that the current people serving as as good as any who have before but I witnessed the change in recruiting and training standards in the regular ranks leading up to my retirement in 2011. I am sure there are still good people serving, but those I served with who still serve all tell me the same story - the people are not service minded.
Perhaps the small percentage of people who are capable of surviving air crew selection and fighter training are different, but the CULTURE of the RCAF has been destroyed.
This is a systemic problem that won't be solved by pretty new jets.
Thanks for weighing in with your experience. This topic was eye-opening.
Let's face it. Typical of all NATO countries, Canada is saving massive amount of money by depending on the U.S. if the SHTF and starving out the US Taxpayer.
Defending Canada costs the American taxpayer essentially nothing. Defending Canada is a natural consequence of defending America.
Amazing Episode ! …. And as a Canadian Veteran Mr. Flynn’s assessment was spot on, I will listen to your other Pod casts for sure ….. well done 😊
It's easier to understand if you realize that defence spending is about spreading around taxpayer dollars to friends and supporters of the current party. Actually obtaining equipment is not even a consideration for the government. I spent 34 years in the RCN. I joined in 1985 when they were promising a Sea King replacement. 34 years later and over $4B spent by government and I retired withput ever seeing a Sea King replacement.
The merge podcast is my 'go-to' place for the latest and most interesting defence and aerospace content. Keep up the great work guys!
Much appreciated!
Canada could've had F-35 deliveries starting in 2013 like the Netherlands or Australia and operational capability by 2018 t to 2020 but thanks to the less-than-stellar "journalism" of the CBC, public opinion, and political infighting, every other Air Force under the sun has taken Canada's place in line.
keep up the good work
My brother (aka Richmo) and Billie served in Baden on CF-18s for a while together ... same age but different career paths/timelines! He says you were a good stick, mate!
Great video, a must watch for Canadians. Thank you Billie Flynn!
I’m a Canadian.
Surely the war in Ukraine has awakened our politicians as to the importance of NATO, and that maybe we should be contributing our fair share. This includes an airforce that can play some kind of a useful role if required. And as Justin says, deterrence is way cheaper than war.
As a reasonable person, you would expect that. But our government has just asked all departments to cut 1 billion dollars, including the military. Our Chief of Defense Staff is going around on news outlets, publicly begging the government to reconsider because we've already hit rock bottom. We haven't had ATGMs at all, for years. (You know, the weapon that stopped the Russians cold? We scrapped all of them in 2016, so we didnt even have any to give the ukranians) Our infantry has no ammo to train with, and our current PM delayed our acquisition of F35s by years by trying and failing to play politics. Our government has blinders on.
We CAN'T. Our bureaucracy is ineffective. See: Phoenix Pay System. FYI, I commented elsewhere: I wish you were wrong but Canada needs a functional military to defend itself and we don't have one. Most of the money is spent on personnel, not weapons systems. The 'Perun' YT channel has a great video on defense economics and explains very well how some countries spend a lot on defense while receiving little 'bang for the buck'. Fun Fact: Germany spends substantially MORE than France on its military, yet has low capabilities (eg: a handful of small subs & frigates) while France has global power projection and a nuclear Force de Frappe. How do they do it? A very significant percent of the French annual budget goes towards acquiring new, state-of-the-art weapons systems while Germany & Canada spend more on personnel. Canada spends so much on maintaining obsolete planes & choppers, we could have just bought good, new equipment. Important: Don't blame our military for this. It's the ineffective bureaucracy in Ottawa & the Dept. of Defense that's the problem. It has always been like this. eg: In the 1940's they bought APC's for Canada that had no heaters. I wish people would realize that the debacle of Canada's Residential School system was NOT an attempt to kill Native kids, but rather a typical, mismanaged Ottawa program.
Nato isn't going to do anything but escalate things. Europe needs to be seen as a united force against the Russians and backing the Ukraine. The US has been staying out of this as much as possible which to their credit helped not escalet it more than it has already.Might be time for the US to sit on the side line and Nato do it's own thing. After all with the US economy and over printing that US dollar isn't what it use to be.
@@jimdavison4077 hahaha
NATO is the reason why the War in Ukraine happened.
Cold war ended promised Russia it wouldn't expand Eastward.
Lied, expanded it Eastwards.
Russia asked to join in.
West said no.
Russia said if you continue to expand and you won't let us that means you are an hostile organization.
Told Russia they should have no say in NATO expansion offered to bring on Ukraine and Georgia.
Funded a illegal coup in Ukraine. Funded Neo Nazis and far right paramilitary groups in Ukraine that wanted to eradicate Russian culture and language in Ukraine.
When ethnic Russians said no the government in Ukraine launched a siege and bombarded Ethnic Russians for 8 years.
NATO funded and armed Ukranian far right wing Government.
Hence the war.
All of this was caused by NATO.
Russia wanted to have good relations with NATO countries
Russia even wanted to join NATO.
NATO was determined to make an enemy of Russia.
And now they are also trying to make an enemy of China and interfer in China's unfinished Civil War.
Well when you have people calling for the defunding of the armed forces you know it’s bad.
Learned about you through Ward Carrol’s channel and am glad to have finally made it here. Hope to learn much from you, sir.
As an ex-patriot Canadian, their military has been on a steep decline since WW II. Trudeau and his ilk have only further deteriorated this once great institution even further. As an American citizen, I'd offer the view that I wouldn't rely on the U.S. to fix Canada's defense issues.
Canada goes cheap on defense preferring to freeride on the US.
Sounds like New Zealand with regards to Australia and it's other allies.
@@Manawatu_Al2844 Indeed... Australia is 2/3 the population of Canada but spends significant more on Defense. AUKUS is a prime example.
In every nation on earth, military procure is a tangled mess.
Canada has raised the bar on that and every purchase suffers from delays, political interference, penny pinching, cancellations and they end up purchasing items that have not use, e.g. the “Arctic Patrol Ships” being built at $350 million a pop (Norway built a better model for $100 million), they are armed with a single 25mm cannon (yet to be installed), no air defence, no anti submarine, no missiles, and is capable of a blistering 15 knots. Yet they cost more than modern frigates currently being built for the USN. Contracts are awarded to political friends, the need or quality is secondary if it even enters the conversation.
Absolutely shameful.
Has been this way since the start, but has gotten worse in the past 8 years.
To be fair the 15knot speed isn’t really an engine power issue it’s because they are icebreakers and icebreakers need torque more then they need speed everything else is fair though
@@jameson1239 my point is they are ghastly overpriced, the navy didn’t ask for them (they should be coast guard vessels) and they are touted as the first Canadian “warship” in 25 years. If they are a warship my Subaru is an MBT.
I'm a Canadian Army Veteran and so embarrassed how our Gouv. is acting toward the CF, Old planes, lack of replacement parts, Not contributing it's 2% GP to NATO. TIME for someone to take charge of our Country.
My Australian son just returned from 5 years in Canada and he said their defence force is pathetic. But its always been that way. They don't see any threats and assume the USA will do the heavy lifting if they are in trouble. He was in the Navy here for ten years and said Canada pay peanuts to the military. Its at least half what Australia pays. When he left the RAN as a bosun he was on $95k pa. They pay for experience not so much by rank. A sergeant in the Australian army with ten years service would earn $110k pa. And each time to sign on for another 7 years, you get $10k cash, tax free. When he told his Canadian mates some of whom are in the Army, they didn't believe him so he showed them on the recruitment website. But there's a caveat. You have to graduate from high school with an 80% grade point average to enlist at the private level. There a queue a mile long.
The US Marines still have some legacy F-18C&D’s, I work on them.
great to hear an honest assessment of the state of strategic thinking ( or more accurately, the complete and total lack of strategic thinking ) on the part of all of the political parties in Canada over the last 50 years - way to go Billie.
In Canada, we spend more tax dollars Cancelling Defence Procurement Contracts, than we actually spend on Defence Procurement. in the 1960's We had a Defence Crisis.. now it's just politics as usual. procurement is nothing but a political game.
I really like your attitude! We used to be kinda crazy good. Things have to change starting now. General Rick Hillier was my battle captain overseas and is a huge advocate for new equipment and training for all branches.
Just like here in the U.S., most of the "hosers" are in government. I sure enjoyed the few times I went TDY to the great white north! Maple Flag at Cold Lake when I was active duty USAF, then to Baggotville working with the CF-18s, getting them warmed up for a Tyndall missile shoot, if I recall correctly. (doubtful) Also got a CF-18B backseat ride while there. Pretty neat doing a Cuban-8 without needing afterburner!! Also had a few airshow trips, Montreal and Shearwater, where my frontseater (an ex-Marine) must have impressed the crowd by over-g'ing our jet. I was unimpressed with him, but I WAS impressed with the hospitality of the Canadian hosts during our stays. I should consider myself part Japanese since I was born there, but I feel more like a quasi-Canadian since I spent more time there.
Canadá should have purchased F-14D’s instead of the Hornets… LoL
Greatly informative and interesting.
Ive been worried about RCAF for quite a long time, but this one really helps me to pull it all together in my mind. Thanks+
Just when I was thinking I hadn't heard him in a while, Billie's back! I didn't know about the Super Hornet's costing as much as he said, though I _do_ remember that one of the things necessary for the range reqs was CFTs and I don't think the Navy was going to fund them. On a side note, would it be feasible to share or lend-lease some of the F35s from the US or partners to Canada while they wait for their aircraft? Just as a shower thought it seems to solve a couple of issues: they can train personnel and pilots ahead of time, gain access to a platform that fulfills immediate requirements, participate in near-peer ops, promote retention, and so on.
Well done!
Who else saw the thumb nail and thought: Canada has an airforce?
The original Herc, The maritime patrol aircraft, the Sea King, the Star Fighter,(that the CF18 replaced in the 80s) amongst others. Canada definitely has had a problem with military procurement since its conception. Canada has always neglected its defence, and doesn’t deserve its servicemen and veterans sacrifices.