Love hearing your enthusiasm for Vorkosigan. I finished the series back in 2017, it's been awhile since I've heard anyone talking about it. Memory was my first 5* sci fi read ever. You might be tempting me to start a reread soon.
Great update! I finished Shards of Honour & Barrayar. I enjoyed them both - Cordelia is awesome. But I did find it hard to get grounded...The Vor names are hard to keep track of and the books are so tight that you really have to pay attention (my fault not the author's!) I did them on audio, which may be why I struggled a bit. I'll definitely continue, though!
If you're in Vancouver that means you live where Unleash the Archers lives. I'm jealous of that and heaving a sigh of relief I don't live there as I know what housing costs there lmao. My favorite band though, definitely check them out. Especially as their last two albums were fantasy and sci-fi concept albums telling a shared story and they've got a new album coming out this month.
The problem with reading works that raised the bar for literature back in the day is that they then were at the minimum level... and the bar has been raised since then. Ancient literature is challenging to read, not having strong plots by modern standards. It's partly because what we're concerned about in a story has changed, it's partly because there wasn't a well-established tradition of written literature. Remember, the Illiad wasn't originally written down, it was a composed epic poem that people recited from memory. You're allowed to not like 'classics'. You don't need to apologize or feel guilty.
What a successful vacation binge! No worries about the Iliad becoming your version of my Fellowship of the Ring. But in all seriousness that’s one that works much better if you read it like I did with a college Greek history class analyzing all of the stuff it’s telling us about their culture, rather than as a novel for fun in competition with the other modern stuff we read. It’s extremely repetitive, but that would’ve helped the oral storytellers remember how it goes or to riff on it with similar structures. We also lose so much of its purpose without experiencing the poetry in original language. Shame to hear Lonesome Crown isn’t just outright crushing it as a finale 😞
In the neverending saga of my having horribly awkward interactions with my dad, we were talking I think Christmas about what we'd been reading, I mentioned The Iliad and how I appreciated reading it for how incredibly influential it is in so much other literature and as *soon* as I said "....but I didn't enjoy it very much" of course he was saying "I know right, it's one of the greatest works ever conceived" etc. etc. My life is a sitcom.
A Vorkosigan binge is in my future. I'm glad you enjoyed it. I was going to read The Illiad this month but instead I started Don Quixote, which is wonderful. I will send some good vibes out for the Canucks.
Oh I didn't know youre also Canadian! I also forget the Blackest Heart lol thats why I havent continues the Lonesome Crown. I need a refesher for the first two books
I find it very funny my birthday was your final day of reading hahah Because thats also when I got burnt out haha Really need to catch up with Vorkosigan, Im currently reading Cetaganda, but trying to binge as much as I can before it leaves free audible haha. Also sending thoughts to the Vancouver Cnuks ? Knucks? Canucks ? Get that Stanley
Jake, Erika, of @MoAnInc has an interview with translator Emily Wilson. It’s WELL worth listening to that interview before giving up on The Iliad. I had to read the book at university and haaaated it but I’m loving Wilson’s new translation. It’s a whole new world and the interview on MoAn does a good job explaining why. You might, at the very least, enjoy Wilson’s explanation of why other translations are so terrible. For me Wilson is to The Iliad as Seamus Heaney is to Beowulf.
Looks like you had a mixed bag for book reading in April. Mine was all good reading, but circumstances reduced the amount of reading. (looking for a new job) ☹ I think you need to be in the right head-space for reading the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Aeneid. Maybe try again in the future sometime. 🙂 I read three books: Dead Water - C A Fletcher The Green Man - Anthology Book Of Night - Holly Black and one comic book: Judge Dredd - The Complete Case Files 34 Book of the month was Dead Water, a really well put together folk horror.
There were definitely aspects of the Lonesome Crown that were a hot mess, and objectively, I think The Blackest Heart is the strongest book in the trilogy. But I ended up liking Lonesome Crown best! I look forward to your thoughts!
I tried reading the Iliad some time ago and had a similar experience - this just isnt something that can be read the same way as a modern novel and it was just to much work for me to keep going. I ended up reading reading the graphic novel version by Gareth Hinds, which worked much better for me.
Jake, you've already sold me on Vorkosagian, and now I'm getting more and more impatient to try Bujold's writing. April was another high quality month for me: *Fantasy* Tawny Man 2: Golden Fool Tawny Man 3: Fool's Fate - My new favourite trilogy! I'm taking a wee break to prepare for Rain Wilds but I can't wait to return to Hobb's writing. Fool's Fate was easily my book of the month, and strong contender for Book of The Year. *Grimdark Fantasy* Sharp Ends: Made A Monster (re-read) Sharp Ends: A Beautiful B@st@rd (re-read) - Gearing up for a First Law re-read. *Memoir* The Disaster Artist / Greg Sestero & Tom Bissell - I don't usually like audiobooks, but this was great. I never tire learning about bts stuff of Tommy Wiseau's The Room. The film adaptation with James Franco does play a lot of the content in the book up for laughs, even the creepy and really toxic parts of Tommy and Greg's friendship (huge power and financial imbalance going on), and that's not even mentioning Wiseau's onset behaviour... *Thriller* Grave Descend / Michael Crichton - Kinda forgettable. I didn't finish it in April, but so far in May I finished: *Steampunk* Books of Babel 1: Senlin Ascends (re-read) As for what I'm currently reading: *Epic Fantasy* Stormlight Archive 1: Way of Kings (re-read) - Really enjoying the re-read, which I was worried I wouldn't. Almost finished Part 1 but I'd forgotten just how unfunny I find the comedy. Wars of Light & Shadow 1: Curse of the Mistwraith - About a quarter of the way through and really enjoying it. Arithon so far is the standout character. I'm taking a break from RotE before I do Rain Wilds and F&F but I'm feeling pretty silly now starting an 11 book Epic Fantasy series during said break 😅 I'm taking both slowly and honestly, I'm thinking of deviating to re-reading something shorter. Haven't figured out what yet. *Sci-Fi* Sun Eater 1: Empire of Silence (re-read)
Can we just turn this channel name into 'Vorkogisan propaganda'? Haha, I love it though, you have totally sold me 🤩 Also, who cares about Napoleon's opinion on The Illiad, Jake's assessment is the undisputed truth 🙌
I feel like Vorkosigan propoganda doesn't cover all the Hobb, GGK, Dresden, Sun Eater, Dandelion, and Stormlight propoganda I engage in. Honestly, Fantasy Book Propaganda would be a much funnier channel name than Jake Bishop
As an Oilers fan, we might have a problem this week! IF, haha, the Canucks win, I will be gracious and not unsubscribe.😂 I will still respect your literary judgement despite your obviously atrocious hockey allegiance.
Don't tell me what to do! Because you told me to not watch past where you stopped talking about Vorkosigan, I couldn't not stop watching after you were done talking about Vorkosigan. Also, you would up talking about Vorkosigan at the end, so... Haha! I'm totally gonna be "that guy"... The Iliad is not a novel to be read, it is a poem more to be spoken aloud for recitation and performance purposes. I'm bummed you didn't like it, as I was utterly riveted by it: from the individual characters to the gods and with the battles and violence (never thought, in an over two thousand year old text, I read so much, let alone at all, about brains being turned to mush in such detail). If you ever want to give The Iliad another try, I would highly recommend Emily Wilson's translation. I'll message you!
I should have seen that coming I don't think I will give it another try, because like.....It wasn't that I disliked the writing style, of the translations I read, which sucks, because I was excited to read it
I agree about the Iliad.
Take that Homer!
Love hearing your enthusiasm for Vorkosigan. I finished the series back in 2017, it's been awhile since I've heard anyone talking about it. Memory was my first 5* sci fi read ever. You might be tempting me to start a reread soon.
dewit
Great update!
I finished Shards of Honour & Barrayar. I enjoyed them both - Cordelia is awesome. But I did find it hard to get grounded...The Vor names are hard to keep track of and the books are so tight that you really have to pay attention (my fault not the author's!)
I did them on audio, which may be why I struggled a bit. I'll definitely continue, though!
Adding Vor to all the names messes with me as well! But You get used to it. I hope you enjoy meeting Miles in Warrior's Apprentice
If you're in Vancouver that means you live where Unleash the Archers lives. I'm jealous of that and heaving a sigh of relief I don't live there as I know what housing costs there lmao. My favorite band though, definitely check them out. Especially as their last two albums were fantasy and sci-fi concept albums telling a shared story and they've got a new album coming out this month.
Interesting
The problem with reading works that raised the bar for literature back in the day is that they then were at the minimum level... and the bar has been raised since then. Ancient literature is challenging to read, not having strong plots by modern standards. It's partly because what we're concerned about in a story has changed, it's partly because there wasn't a well-established tradition of written literature. Remember, the Illiad wasn't originally written down, it was a composed epic poem that people recited from memory.
You're allowed to not like 'classics'. You don't need to apologize or feel guilty.
What a successful vacation binge!
No worries about the Iliad becoming your version of my Fellowship of the Ring. But in all seriousness that’s one that works much better if you read it like I did with a college Greek history class analyzing all of the stuff it’s telling us about their culture, rather than as a novel for fun in competition with the other modern stuff we read. It’s extremely repetitive, but that would’ve helped the oral storytellers remember how it goes or to riff on it with similar structures. We also lose so much of its purpose without experiencing the poetry in original language.
Shame to hear Lonesome Crown isn’t just outright crushing it as a finale 😞
I think it is probably more interesting as a lens to see Greek culture through if that's the purpose you're reading it for
In the neverending saga of my having horribly awkward interactions with my dad, we were talking I think Christmas about what we'd been reading, I mentioned The Iliad and how I appreciated reading it for how incredibly influential it is in so much other literature and as *soon* as I said "....but I didn't enjoy it very much" of course he was saying "I know right, it's one of the greatest works ever conceived" etc. etc. My life is a sitcom.
I somehow managed both sides of this conversation by myself
A Vorkosigan binge is in my future. I'm glad you enjoyed it.
I was going to read The Illiad this month but instead I started Don Quixote, which is wonderful.
I will send some good vibes out for the Canucks.
I appreciate the good vibes for the Canucks
Go Canucks!!
Wooooo!!!!
@@jakebishop7822 Do you think I should try translating "Wooooo!!!!" to English?
I did. No translation occurred.
YES
Oh I didn't know youre also Canadian!
I also forget the Blackest Heart lol thats why I havent continues the Lonesome Crown. I need a refesher for the first two books
oh Canada
I mean I doubt you remember Blackest Heart worse than I did, but also.....ya, a recap would have been nice.
I find it very funny my birthday was your final day of reading hahah Because thats also when I got burnt out haha Really need to catch up with Vorkosigan, Im currently reading Cetaganda, but trying to binge as much as I can before it leaves free audible haha. Also sending thoughts to the Vancouver Cnuks ? Knucks? Canucks ? Get that Stanley
I really like Ceteganda, although despite that it may be the most side quest ish Vorgosigan novels. You got some crazy stuff ahead of you
Jake, Erika, of @MoAnInc has an interview with translator Emily Wilson. It’s WELL worth listening to that interview before giving up on The Iliad. I had to read the book at university and haaaated it but I’m loving Wilson’s new translation. It’s a whole new world and the interview on MoAn does a good job explaining why. You might, at the very least, enjoy Wilson’s explanation of why other translations are so terrible. For me Wilson is to The Iliad as Seamus Heaney is to Beowulf.
Sounds very interesting, I will look at it when I can
Looks like you had a mixed bag for book reading in April.
Mine was all good reading, but circumstances reduced the amount of reading. (looking for a new job) ☹
I think you need to be in the right head-space for reading the Iliad, the Odyssey and the Aeneid. Maybe try again in the future sometime. 🙂
I read three books:
Dead Water - C A Fletcher
The Green Man - Anthology
Book Of Night - Holly Black
and one comic book:
Judge Dredd - The Complete Case Files 34
Book of the month was Dead Water, a really well put together folk horror.
I don't know what headspace that is though. I could see myself trying the Odyssey in the future, maybe
There were definitely aspects of the Lonesome Crown that were a hot mess, and objectively, I think The Blackest Heart is the strongest book in the trilogy. But I ended up liking Lonesome Crown best! I look forward to your thoughts!
I think I am about to get to the complete insanity, so we will see if it turns back around
I tried reading the Iliad some time ago and had a similar experience - this just isnt something that can be read the same way as a modern novel and it was just to much work for me to keep going. I ended up reading reading the graphic novel version by Gareth Hinds, which worked much better for me.
Interesting, maybe one day I will do that
Jake, you've already sold me on Vorkosagian, and now I'm getting more and more impatient to try Bujold's writing.
April was another high quality month for me:
*Fantasy*
Tawny Man 2: Golden Fool
Tawny Man 3: Fool's Fate
- My new favourite trilogy! I'm taking a wee break to prepare for Rain Wilds but I can't wait to return to Hobb's writing. Fool's Fate was easily my book of the month, and strong contender for Book of The Year.
*Grimdark Fantasy*
Sharp Ends: Made A Monster (re-read)
Sharp Ends: A Beautiful B@st@rd (re-read)
- Gearing up for a First Law re-read.
*Memoir*
The Disaster Artist / Greg Sestero & Tom Bissell
- I don't usually like audiobooks, but this was great. I never tire learning about bts stuff of Tommy Wiseau's The Room. The film adaptation with James Franco does play a lot of the content in the book up for laughs, even the creepy and really toxic parts of Tommy and Greg's friendship (huge power and financial imbalance going on), and that's not even mentioning Wiseau's onset behaviour...
*Thriller*
Grave Descend / Michael Crichton
- Kinda forgettable.
I didn't finish it in April, but so far in May I finished:
*Steampunk*
Books of Babel 1: Senlin Ascends (re-read)
As for what I'm currently reading:
*Epic Fantasy*
Stormlight Archive 1: Way of Kings (re-read)
- Really enjoying the re-read, which I was worried I wouldn't. Almost finished Part 1 but I'd forgotten just how unfunny I find the comedy.
Wars of Light & Shadow 1: Curse of the Mistwraith
- About a quarter of the way through and really enjoying it. Arithon so far is the standout character. I'm taking a break from RotE before I do Rain Wilds and F&F but I'm feeling pretty silly now starting an 11 book Epic Fantasy series during said break 😅
I'm taking both slowly and honestly, I'm thinking of deviating to re-reading something shorter. Haven't figured out what yet.
*Sci-Fi*
Sun Eater 1: Empire of Silence (re-read)
I see Tawny Man and I am happy
Go Oilers.
No
Can we just turn this channel name into 'Vorkogisan propaganda'? Haha, I love it though, you have totally sold me 🤩
Also, who cares about Napoleon's opinion on The Illiad, Jake's assessment is the undisputed truth 🙌
I feel like Vorkosigan propoganda doesn't cover all the Hobb, GGK, Dresden, Sun Eater, Dandelion, and Stormlight propoganda I engage in.
Honestly, Fantasy Book Propaganda would be a much funnier channel name than Jake Bishop
@@jakebishop7822 fair... Fantasy Book Propaganda it is 🔥
Hmm been hearing lots of mixed things about Lonesome Crown all of a sudden.
I have not payed attention much to the reception of it
Not to be That Guy, but if I'm donning That Guy's cap, "The Iliad" is not a novel, it's an epic poem. :)
Well it not being a novel makes me feel better about thinking it's bad at being a novel, so I'll take it.
As an Oilers fan, we might have a problem this week! IF, haha, the Canucks win, I will be gracious and not unsubscribe.😂 I will still respect your literary judgement despite your obviously atrocious hockey allegiance.
You guys already had Wayne Gretzky, you should have let some other teams have a generational talent.
(Connor McDavid scares me)
Don't tell me what to do! Because you told me to not watch past where you stopped talking about Vorkosigan, I couldn't not stop watching after you were done talking about Vorkosigan. Also, you would up talking about Vorkosigan at the end, so... Haha!
I'm totally gonna be "that guy"... The Iliad is not a novel to be read, it is a poem more to be spoken aloud for recitation and performance purposes. I'm bummed you didn't like it, as I was utterly riveted by it: from the individual characters to the gods and with the battles and violence (never thought, in an over two thousand year old text, I read so much, let alone at all, about brains being turned to mush in such detail). If you ever want to give The Iliad another try, I would highly recommend Emily Wilson's translation.
I'll message you!
I should have seen that coming
I don't think I will give it another try, because like.....It wasn't that I disliked the writing style, of the translations I read, which sucks, because I was excited to read it
Sports r dumb but books make u smarter
I'm ok with being dumb and happy if the Canucks win the Stanley cup