FYI the werewolfs in Eldritch Moon only transforming one way was a design decision to show how bleak the situation was, how even the creatures were transforming in such a way they could not go back even if they wanted to.
Just a quick FYI: Waxing Moon doesn't work on daybound/nightbound werewolves. Those can only transform through their daybound/nightbound ability, not by any other means.
Edit: I said it would transform and immediately transform back. I was wrong (on the Internet!) Reading the comprehensive rules on a mobile phone was a bad idea.
@@furbyfubar No, it wouldn't transform. 702.145b Daybound is found on the front faces of some transforming double-faced cards and represents three static abilities. “Daybound” means “If it is night, this permanent enters the battlefield transformed,” “As it becomes night, if this permanent is front face up, transform it,” and *“This permanent can’t be transformed except by its daybound ability.”* See rule 724, “Day and Night.” 702.145e Nightbound is found on the back faces of some transforming double-faced cards and represents two static abilities. “Nightbound” means “As it becomes day, if this permanent is back face up, transform it” and *“This permanent can’t be transformed except by its nightbound ability.”*
Emerge has to be one of the most "this mechanic makes a lot of sense conceptually but takes a lot of words to explain within the rules" mechanics ever. If you explain the exact details of the mechanic, you'll get blank stares, but if you just say "it bursts out of the creature so it dies and costs less based on how much that creature costs", you kinda get it.
Whoa... the geist in the artwork of Haunted Dead is the disembodied spirit of the ghoul in the same artwork. That's brilliant! It gives new meaning to the phrase "Me, Myself, aye."
Enlightened Maniac: "At last! Proof that it's not all in my head!" Graham: "It can be both!" Enlightened Maniac (probably): "No. You see, if it's both in my head and in reality then it's not ALL in my head." Graham (probably): "You know, I did say you had some solid points..."
Well, the Crack-a-Pack has, by my reckoning, successfully drafted 45 actual Magic cards (ie not counting the episodes where we drafted Jar Jar Binks' Electropole, or a bottle of "Drizzt Mist" soda), so we now have a full-sized draft pool. It's an interesting challenge trying to actually build a deck out of this madness. I tried to post a link to a deck builder, but UA-cam ate it... but if you search the LRRcord I posted the link there too.
I love this set. The eldritch horror was an interesting spin. The werewolves that transformed by paying mana were a fun touch, as spending your turn paying all that mana and not casting spells not only gave you agency for transforming them but also worked nicely with getting other werewolves to transform by not casting spells. Also, I found Delirium to be a lot of fun and a neat wrinkle in limited deck construction.
FYI: all of the DFCs fit on the single checklist card for Eldritch Moon because Eldritch Moon was a small set... which still had "1 more DFC in it than all of OG Innistrad did by itself" - Shadows Over Innistrad with its 33 DFCs had to split that across two checklist cards.
8:22 Welp, it was nice knowing you Graham. I guess you'll have a nice backlog built up for future Crack-a-Packs when you get out of the dungeon, though!
Okay now I want a plot/subplot for whenever friday nights returns ( no pressure if it doesn't just musing aloud) for James to be begrudgingly having to rebuild or relearn his werewolf deck in regards the the new rules/rulings XD
It may be because I do not have as much affinity for classic gothic horror that Innistrad initially invoked, but I like the concept of eldritch horrors behaving like an invasive species into another sub-genre of horror.
Lovecraft himself started heavily influenced by Poe and used a lot of Gothic horror ideas, gradually transitioning into the Cosmic/Eldritch horror he's known for. It's a natural progression based in history.
Also, as someone with experience on that front, I would highly, HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to build a "I have all the werewolves" Commander deck to either play with the checklist cards in the actual deck, and put the real werewolves off to the side in clear sleeves so you can just "turn them over" when they transform... or to acquire 2 copies of the werewolves, and have the 2nd copy off to the side, in a clear sleeve, for when they transform; pulling them into/out of sleeves on the sort of continual basis you would be doing while piloting that deck is going to get very old, very quickly (especially if you double-sleeve).
Field Creeper is actually better than it looks in Limited. It can get you halfway to delirium on its own, and between 1 toughness and all the discard options, it's not hard to get in the bin. (Not a first pick, obviously, but still.)
Can’t wait to see what Graham comes up with for a Werewolf deck. I love seeing Jank and I love seeing it pop off. With the latest sets, they have never been better.
So I went and put together a list of Madness cards where the madness cost isn't just a discount vs the mana cost, and how they compare. Asylum Visitor (Same cost) Avacyn's Judgement (XR for X damage instaed of 1R for 2) Broken Concentration (3U instead of 1UU) Chilling Grasp (3U instead of 2U) From Under the Floorboards (XBB for X zombies instead of 3BB for 3) Ichor Slick (3B instead of 2B, BUT card also has Cycling 2) Insatiable Gorgers (3R instead of 2RR) Malevolent Whispers (Same cost) Murderous Compulsion (Same cost) Obsessive Search (Same cost) Senseless Rage (Same cost) Shadowgrange Archfiend ("2B, Pay 8 life" instead of 6B) Stensia Masquerade (Same cost) Voldaren Pariah (BBB instead of 3BB)
My house rule for the Tovolar deck is if you play a werewolf that transforms like day/night rules, they are errata’d to do so. Other transform requirements remain the same. Much less headache involved
FWIW, it's not hard to pilot an EDH Deck with both types of Werewolves. I have a Tovolar deck that's pretty awesome. The transform trigger is still the same, it's only when it's night that you have to remember the old school werewolves enter on their front face.
On the topic of playing multiple kinds of transformation werewolves, have a friend who plays old style, new style, and pay-to-transform werewolves. It 100% gets confusing what flips when. But our commander games are chaotic enough that it's not a big issue. Would not recommend if you're looking for a simpler commander experience (if such a thing exists :P)
I really want to give this set another shot. I remember just being so tired of the drab and dreary feel of Magic when this set came out. It was fun mechanically but I probably only drafted it 3 or 4 times.
Waxing moon does not work with the new Innistrad werewolves, like Moonmist doesn't; they only transform with the day/night-cycle or can be kept from transforming by Immerwolf
This is a great pack if you're into the Sultai Emerge draft strategy. I would pick Haunted Dead and hope to wheel the Eldrazi or the Enlightened Maniac.
Honestly, keeping up with both the dayboud/nightboud werewolves and the older werewolves isn't that bad in a tovolar deck. Since he flips all of them when his effect triggers and the timing on their flips usually matches, it usually isn't a pain.
That werewolf is also one of the only transform cards you can mutate into without changing its creature type as it's a werewolf horror instead of a werewolf human!
As somebody with a werewolf commander deck I can tell you that the confusion of old and new werewolf transform mechanics is manageable but annoying. Tovolar (the new werewolf commander) is written in a way that can flip old and new werewolves (except for the Eldrazi werewolves), but real annoyance is that old werewolves wont ETB wolf'd up like the new ones will. It's not a huge deal, but you'd probably end up wishing WotC had bit the bullet and errata'd all the old werewolves to have Daybound/Nightbound, because it'd be a cleaner solution; even if it did change how a few of the old werewolves work. My group generally house rules that all werewolves have the new mechanic because it keeps things moving smoothly. If you DO try werewolf commander, definitely plan to unsleeve every werewolf you play, because you'll be flipping them 2+ times a round in a commander game. : p
Weirded Vampire is consummately underwhelming. It’s a Hill Giant with no abilities or if you discard it you can knock a whopping 1 mana off the cost. It has Madness, but it just gives me Sadness.
I really liked this set, not sure why people keep trying to act like this trip to Innistrad was universally disliked. It was way better than 2/3rds og innistrad block, where Inn was great and the other 2 made a ton temp quit magic for 6 months.
Tons of people try to act like the thing they like or dislike is universally so. With this set people felt the "twist" with Emrakul being behind things wasn't that much of a twist, and people were tired of Eldrazi at that point. In a vacuum it's an amazing idea, it just was a victim of unfortunate timing.
My pod and I all just errata the clunky first werewolves to just say day bound and night bound it runs smoother, not that you would keep many except maybe huntmaster, and some of the others that actually do things instead of just being nearly vinilla beat sticks.
That first werewolf card doesn't actually work with Daybound/Nightbound werewolves. Daybound has a bit in the rules where "if at any time it is day and you control a nightbound permanent transform that permanent. This does not use the stack." So you play that trample trick, flip your deckhand or whatever, and it immediately flips back. Daybound/Nightbound imo is such an unintuitive mess that requires yet another thing to be tracked outside the game and doesn't even synergize with its previous incarnation.
it's not an unintuitive mess. In the format it's designed primarily for, it's clean and intuitive. They designed Tovolar to also be backwards compatible with old werewolves too if you really want to use them all together.
FYI the werewolfs in Eldritch Moon only transforming one way was a design decision to show how bleak the situation was, how even the creatures were transforming in such a way they could not go back even if they wanted to.
Just a quick FYI: Waxing Moon doesn't work on daybound/nightbound werewolves. Those can only transform through their daybound/nightbound ability, not by any other means.
Edit: I said it would transform and immediately transform back. I was wrong (on the Internet!) Reading the comprehensive rules on a mobile phone was a bad idea.
@@furbyfubar Would you get a trigger from Brutal Cathar?
@@furbyfubar No, it wouldn't transform.
702.145b Daybound is found on the front faces of some transforming double-faced cards and
represents three static abilities. “Daybound” means “If it is night, this permanent enters the
battlefield transformed,” “As it becomes night, if this permanent is front face up, transform it,”
and *“This permanent can’t be transformed except by its daybound ability.”* See rule 724, “Day
and Night.”
702.145e Nightbound is found on the back faces of some transforming double-faced cards and
represents two static abilities. “Nightbound” means “As it becomes day, if this permanent is
back face up, transform it” and *“This permanent can’t be transformed except by its nightbound
ability.”*
@@EldritchDoe Yep, was just about to edit to correct myself as I read the rules more carefully.
This is why the legend says "it becomes night, then transform" right?
Emerge has to be one of the most "this mechanic makes a lot of sense conceptually but takes a lot of words to explain within the rules" mechanics ever. If you explain the exact details of the mechanic, you'll get blank stares, but if you just say "it bursts out of the creature so it dies and costs less based on how much that creature costs", you kinda get it.
I like how cleanly Enlightened Maniac is an Emerge enabler. Keep the 3/2 token and sac that 0/2 for 4 off of an Emerge cost.
Whoa... the geist in the artwork of Haunted Dead is the disembodied spirit of the ghoul in the same artwork. That's brilliant! It gives new meaning to the phrase "Me, Myself, aye."
Enlightened Maniac: "At last! Proof that it's not all in my head!"
Graham: "It can be both!"
Enlightened Maniac (probably): "No. You see, if it's both in my head and in reality then it's not ALL in my head."
Graham (probably): "You know, I did say you had some solid points..."
Enlightened Maniac knows their syllogisms
Well, the Crack-a-Pack has, by my reckoning, successfully drafted 45 actual Magic cards (ie not counting the episodes where we drafted Jar Jar Binks' Electropole, or a bottle of "Drizzt Mist" soda), so we now have a full-sized draft pool. It's an interesting challenge trying to actually build a deck out of this madness. I tried to post a link to a deck builder, but UA-cam ate it... but if you search the LRRcord I posted the link there too.
I love this set. The eldritch horror was an interesting spin. The werewolves that transformed by paying mana were a fun touch, as spending your turn paying all that mana and not casting spells not only gave you agency for transforming them but also worked nicely with getting other werewolves to transform by not casting spells. Also, I found Delirium to be a lot of fun and a neat wrinkle in limited deck construction.
New LLR slang:
"It's a green creature!" "No, it's a green creen!"
2:20 "MA THERE'S A WEIRD VAMPIRE OUTSIDE"
FYI: all of the DFCs fit on the single checklist card for Eldritch Moon because Eldritch Moon was a small set... which still had "1 more DFC in it than all of OG Innistrad did by itself" - Shadows Over Innistrad with its 33 DFCs had to split that across two checklist cards.
8:22 Welp, it was nice knowing you Graham. I guess you'll have a nice backlog built up for future Crack-a-Packs when you get out of the dungeon, though!
Okay now I want a plot/subplot for whenever friday nights returns ( no pressure if it doesn't just musing aloud) for James to be begrudgingly having to rebuild or relearn his werewolf deck in regards the the new rules/rulings XD
I'm hoping that "Greetings you weirded vampires." Gets added to the list.
At 3:07 we get a quote from Runo, years later we’d see he still kinda has weird transform powers into a monster
Enlightened Maniac has two arms in their straight jacket, and a bonus, chest-bursting arm.
Oh no, my mass! It's PERMEATING
It may be because I do not have as much affinity for classic gothic horror that Innistrad initially invoked, but I like the concept of eldritch horrors behaving like an invasive species into another sub-genre of horror.
Lovecraft himself started heavily influenced by Poe and used a lot of Gothic horror ideas, gradually transitioning into the Cosmic/Eldritch horror he's known for. It's a natural progression based in history.
Also, as someone with experience on that front, I would highly, HIGHLY recommend anyone looking to build a "I have all the werewolves" Commander deck to either play with the checklist cards in the actual deck, and put the real werewolves off to the side in clear sleeves so you can just "turn them over" when they transform... or to acquire 2 copies of the werewolves, and have the 2nd copy off to the side, in a clear sleeve, for when they transform; pulling them into/out of sleeves on the sort of continual basis you would be doing while piloting that deck is going to get very old, very quickly (especially if you double-sleeve).
Field Creeper is actually better than it looks in Limited. It can get you halfway to delirium on its own, and between 1 toughness and all the discard options, it's not hard to get in the bin. (Not a first pick, obviously, but still.)
Can’t wait to see what Graham comes up with for a Werewolf deck. I love seeing Jank and I love seeing it pop off. With the latest sets, they have never been better.
With Tovolar as your commander, it's honestly not that confusing, since he makes it night, THEN transforms *all* werewolves
I can say it is both lots of fun and chaos running edh werewolves
There needs to be either an aftermath card or a flip card that's "You're Welcome // I'm Sorry."
So I went and put together a list of Madness cards where the madness cost isn't just a discount vs the mana cost, and how they compare.
Asylum Visitor (Same cost)
Avacyn's Judgement (XR for X damage instaed of 1R for 2)
Broken Concentration (3U instead of 1UU)
Chilling Grasp (3U instead of 2U)
From Under the Floorboards (XBB for X zombies instead of 3BB for 3)
Ichor Slick (3B instead of 2B, BUT card also has Cycling 2)
Insatiable Gorgers (3R instead of 2RR)
Malevolent Whispers (Same cost)
Murderous Compulsion (Same cost)
Obsessive Search (Same cost)
Senseless Rage (Same cost)
Shadowgrange Archfiend ("2B, Pay 8 life" instead of 6B)
Stensia Masquerade (Same cost)
Voldaren Pariah (BBB instead of 3BB)
My house rule for the Tovolar deck is if you play a werewolf that transforms like day/night rules, they are errata’d to do so. Other transform requirements remain the same. Much less headache involved
But Tovolar already takes care of both kinds of werewolves. They designed him to be backwards compatible.
FWIW, it's not hard to pilot an EDH Deck with both types of Werewolves. I have a Tovolar deck that's pretty awesome. The transform trigger is still the same, it's only when it's night that you have to remember the old school werewolves enter on their front face.
On the topic of playing multiple kinds of transformation werewolves, have a friend who plays old style, new style, and pay-to-transform werewolves. It 100% gets confusing what flips when. But our commander games are chaotic enough that it's not a big issue. Would not recommend if you're looking for a simpler commander experience (if such a thing exists :P)
I really want to give this set another shot. I remember just being so tired of the drab and dreary feel of Magic when this set came out. It was fun mechanically but I probably only drafted it 3 or 4 times.
Faithbearer Paladin is such an unremarkable card, but I love the art so much. Seeing Asians in non-Asian coded settings is so rare.
I should have bought more of this set. Seemed fun.
Excited to see Graham make a werewolf deck!
*permeates massively*
Waxing moon does not work with the new Innistrad werewolves, like Moonmist doesn't; they only transform with the day/night-cycle or can be kept from transforming by Immerwolf
Running both types of werewolves is EXTREMELY difficult, to the point where my playgroup Rule Zero'd all Werewolves as having Daybound/Nightbound.
Next pin text "GREEN CREEN?"
I really like the flavor of Haunted Dead. The person's ghost is haunting her zombified corpse!
This is a great pack if you're into the Sultai Emerge draft strategy. I would pick Haunted Dead and hope to wheel the Eldrazi or the Enlightened Maniac.
Love the eldritch moon set.
Honestly, keeping up with both the dayboud/nightboud werewolves and the older werewolves isn't that bad in a tovolar deck. Since he flips all of them when his effect triggers and the timing on their flips usually matches, it usually isn't a pain.
Build a Tovolar commander deck to see how both versions of werewolf will interact.
That werewolf is also one of the only transform cards you can mutate into without changing its creature type as it's a werewolf horror instead of a werewolf human!
Okay I got back in .. did a chaos draft .. OMG how fun! .. Soooo very addicting .. is there Saturday drafts anywhere?
He should make the werewolf deck! That sounds so cool!
As somebody with a werewolf commander deck I can tell you that the confusion of old and new werewolf transform mechanics is manageable but annoying. Tovolar (the new werewolf commander) is written in a way that can flip old and new werewolves (except for the Eldrazi werewolves), but real annoyance is that old werewolves wont ETB wolf'd up like the new ones will. It's not a huge deal, but you'd probably end up wishing WotC had bit the bullet and errata'd all the old werewolves to have Daybound/Nightbound, because it'd be a cleaner solution; even if it did change how a few of the old werewolves work. My group generally house rules that all werewolves have the new mechanic because it keeps things moving smoothly.
If you DO try werewolf commander, definitely plan to unsleeve every werewolf you play, because you'll be flipping them 2+ times a round in a commander game. : p
Bad Chapter would be a good title or name for something
Escalate would be good flavor for the Brother's War set that's coming later this year. Modular too (the war machines get larger and larger)
I'd take the haunted dead, seems solid in a couple decks i'd enjoy playing.
Green creen
Engagement for the engagement god!
If someone plays werewolves with me, I'm so down to treat all of them as if they had daybound/nightbound, it's way easier that way lol
1000 years in the dungeon? That seems…. Reasonable?
Only 1000 years?
Anyone else think Graham’s eyes look nice in that thumbnail?
YEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHH PERMEATING MASS BAYBEEEEEEEEEEE
Crack-A-Moon!
I'm here to permiate the Masses!
Ooo, like #666 on Eldritch Moon!
Moonmist doesn t tranform day/nigthbound creatures so I guess all those kind of.cards dont
don't tell Cameron 👀
I am engaging with this content.
Weirded Vampire is consummately underwhelming. It’s a Hill Giant with no abilities or if you discard it you can knock a whopping 1 mana off the cost.
It has Madness, but it just gives me Sadness.
I really liked this set, not sure why people keep trying to act like this trip to Innistrad was universally disliked. It was way better than 2/3rds og innistrad block, where Inn was great and the other 2 made a ton temp quit magic for 6 months.
Tons of people try to act like the thing they like or dislike is universally so. With this set people felt the "twist" with Emrakul being behind things wasn't that much of a twist, and people were tired of Eldrazi at that point. In a vacuum it's an amazing idea, it just was a victim of unfortunate timing.
My pod and I all just errata the clunky first werewolves to just say day bound and night bound it runs smoother, not that you would keep many except maybe huntmaster, and some of the others that actually do things instead of just being nearly vinilla beat sticks.
Tovolar already makes the older ones work without errata.
Crack! A! Pack!
Woo Hoo!
I want to see a rundown of every pack on crack a pack by value. Mostly to see which is truly the worst pack opened.
That first werewolf card doesn't actually work with Daybound/Nightbound werewolves.
Daybound has a bit in the rules where "if at any time it is day and you control a nightbound permanent transform that permanent. This does not use the stack."
So you play that trample trick, flip your deckhand or whatever, and it immediately flips back.
Daybound/Nightbound imo is such an unintuitive mess that requires yet another thing to be tracked outside the game and doesn't even synergize with its previous incarnation.
it's not an unintuitive mess. In the format it's designed primarily for, it's clean and intuitive. They designed Tovolar to also be backwards compatible with old werewolves too if you really want to use them all together.