I think it may be of interest to mention that it was the death of Idomeneus’ uncle and predecessor, Catreus (DS 5.59.1-3; [Ap.] 3.2.2), that occasioned Menelaus-a maternal (great)grandson of the late Cretan king-to leave Helen to host Paris in Sparta while he went-along with his brother Agamemnon and their cousins Palamedes, Oeax, and Nausimedon-to Crete to collect their inheritances (Dictys 1.1-4; but note the confusion of the name Catreus with Atreus).
It's very interesting that chaos ensued in pretty much every Greek kingdom after the war. Wouldn't be surprised if the Cretans that ousted Idomeneus were among the Sea Peoples that later showed up on the Nile Delta. In the tale Odysseus tells while in disguise as a Cretan prince, he mentions raiding Egypt several times before the war as well, so it must have been quite common at that point.
Yes, I think the Greeks and the Luwians together were the Sea People. The Sikels were from the Cyclades, the Pelaset were Pelagians and Tjeker were Trojans. I think the REAL Trojan War was the Hittite conflict with Piyamaradu around 1300BCE. The drought started around 1250BCE, around the same time as Troy’s walls were destroyed by earthquake. These conflict at-home stories are echoes of that time. But Luwians and Greeks were allies by then, opposed to the Hittite seizure of the copper mines in Cyprus. These allied war camps needed bards for entertainment who told stories all of them could relate to. That is why we have both the Greek and Trojan versions of the story. They were both in the audience, enjoying the stories together.
I would only point out that, as I recall, Odysseus and his men sack an unsuspecting town (in Thrace?) on their way home, shortly after leaving Troy. This is also one of the ways the Achaians kept themselves fed over the ten years of the war: they would go raiding. Thucydides talks in Book I about how all used to carry weapons and towns were built further inland, because of the prevalence of pirates (by land as well as sea).
Very skeptical about the earliest stories, surrounding Minos and Theseus. The premise of that story was that the Athenians (amongst others) owed tribute to the Cretans, suggesting that this happened during 'Minoan' times, which would've had to be several hundred years earlier. Of course, 'Minos' was possibly a title, or a re-used royal name, so Idomeneus' grandfather could well have been named Minos. I get the feeling that Idomeneus and his ilk, though, are Achaians, rather than the original Cretan Minoans, who were conquered around 1400 BC.
You know with these promises made out of desperation the the gods, you would think they not take these promises, or words of the gods spoken by oracles so literally. I'm sure his son was not first thing he saw but perhaps a bird or a fishing boat on his approach to the city. He should have sacrificed that instead not his own son...🤦♂️
Probably because they believed themselves untouchable on there island because throughout most of there history they were. It's the same reason the mugal and chinese never concentrated on naval superiority. Throughout the major of there history the only people they had to worry about attacking from the sea was themselves. Geography makes people lazy especially if you find a good spot.
I think it may be of interest to mention that it was the death of Idomeneus’ uncle and predecessor, Catreus (DS 5.59.1-3; [Ap.] 3.2.2), that occasioned Menelaus-a maternal (great)grandson of the late Cretan king-to leave Helen to host Paris in Sparta while he went-along with his brother Agamemnon and their cousins Palamedes, Oeax, and Nausimedon-to Crete to collect their inheritances (Dictys 1.1-4; but note the confusion of the name Catreus with Atreus).
Very interesting Thankyou.
It's very interesting that chaos ensued in pretty much every Greek kingdom after the war. Wouldn't be surprised if the Cretans that ousted Idomeneus were among the Sea Peoples that later showed up on the Nile Delta. In the tale Odysseus tells while in disguise as a Cretan prince, he mentions raiding Egypt several times before the war as well, so it must have been quite common at that point.
Yes, I think the Greeks and the Luwians together were the Sea People. The Sikels were from the Cyclades, the Pelaset were Pelagians and Tjeker were Trojans. I think the REAL Trojan War was the Hittite conflict with Piyamaradu around 1300BCE. The drought started around 1250BCE, around the same time as Troy’s walls were destroyed by earthquake. These conflict at-home stories are echoes of that time. But Luwians and Greeks were allies by then, opposed to the Hittite seizure of the copper mines in Cyprus. These allied war camps needed bards for entertainment who told stories all of them could relate to. That is why we have both the Greek and Trojan versions of the story. They were both in the audience, enjoying the stories together.
@@carolgebert7833 I think the sea people were the philistines, the Phoenicians, I think that’s where Israel and that side of the Mediterranean is
I would only point out that, as I recall, Odysseus and his men sack an unsuspecting town (in Thrace?) on their way home, shortly after leaving Troy. This is also one of the ways the Achaians kept themselves fed over the ten years of the war: they would go raiding. Thucydides talks in Book I about how all used to carry weapons and towns were built further inland, because of the prevalence of pirates (by land as well as sea).
Wonderful video, my favorite history Channel !
Nice videos mate
I admire your knowledge great presentation as always😮
Thank you, I appreciate it! Looking forward to your new content!!
Interesting how Diomedes, Aneas, and a Idomeneus all ended up in Italy and even Odysseus was taken off course near Sicily.
Thank you
Thank you for stepping by!
Very skeptical about the earliest stories, surrounding Minos and Theseus. The premise of that story was that the Athenians (amongst others) owed tribute to the Cretans, suggesting that this happened during 'Minoan' times, which would've had to be several hundred years earlier. Of course, 'Minos' was possibly a title, or a re-used royal name, so Idomeneus' grandfather could well have been named Minos. I get the feeling that Idomeneus and his ilk, though, are Achaians, rather than the original Cretan Minoans, who were conquered around 1400 BC.
You know with these promises made out of desperation the the gods, you would think they not take these promises, or words of the gods spoken by oracles so literally. I'm sure his son was not first thing he saw but perhaps a bird or a fishing boat on his approach to the city. He should have sacrificed that instead not his own son...🤦♂️
Any word about Marion,the best friend od Idomeneus and possibly the best archer in greek army?
His name was Meriones and he was cousin to King Idomeneus. He was son of Molus the bastard
Why were the mioans less warlike
why are the Amish less warlike? i assume its a complicated mix of human nature, culture, survival, and necessity.
Smoked more weed than the others
@@SuperDirtyBeast or saffron
@@SuperDirtyBeast they got high on that ,minnoan high bro
Probably because they believed themselves untouchable on there island because throughout most of there history they were. It's the same reason the mugal and chinese never concentrated on naval superiority. Throughout the major of there history the only people they had to worry about attacking from the sea was themselves. Geography makes people lazy especially if you find a good spot.
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