Dangerous GU10 LED Spot Light is Cheap and Bright but could Kill You - Seriously
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- Help support Julian's LED videos on Patreon: / julian256
This GU10 LED spot light is cheap (£3 including postage) and bright. But it's also lethal! There's a 50% chance of putting live mains within a few microns of the metal casing (which is what you'll be holding when you insert it) and there's no earth to protect you. It's like playing Russian Roulette with 240v AC mains. This sort of thing gives new technology a bad name. Avoid it if you want to stay alive.
See a very similar 'corn cob' lamp described and expertly tested by AintBigAintClever here: • Dangerous LED "corn co...
7 years later, youtube, let's recommend this video now
same here...
9y
In my recommendations today 30 oct 22
I bought a batch of GU10 LEDs about 12 months ago and stupidly proceeded to fit them with the lighting circuit live, the first one was fitted without incident but the second gave me quite an invigorating "tickle" across the major organs! (I was holding the earthed metallic luminaire with one hand as I fitted the bulb). Fortunately I was saved from coronary failure by the distribution box RCD tripping - I WAS LUCKY!
Once my heart rhythm had returned to something near nomal I decided it might be prudent to fit the rest of the bulbs with the circuit dead and then being of an inquisitive nature tested for voltage to ground on the bulb heat sinks; I found voltages ranging from 18v to 190v AC with over 50% of them over 140v, the one that bit me had a touch voltage of 180v on the heatsink. Oh and of course they had CE stickers. BE CAREFUL there is some seriously dodgy electrical equipment in circulation these days. Cheap imports from good old China may not always be the bargain they appear.
Sorry for the length!
Actually, you should still go to hospital and have your heart properly checked. Although your heart rhythm may *appear* to have gone back to normal, it may not have done and you could have problems years later. Explain what happened and they can check you out. This is a common occurrence.
YES.... I ALWAYS TURN THE POWER OFF WHEN INSTALLING GU10 bulbs plus Edison Screw bulbs too....You need to be very careful ...
Another dangerous 'corn cob' LED lamp using a dropper circuit, described and expertly tested by AintBigAintClever here: ua-cam.com/video/n3ci4nlKhEk/v-deo.html
mysock351C
Leakage current is no problem unless the diodes are faulty.
But - you're right it will be live in 100% of the time and not just 50. Thats simply becuse the mains is AC - one half cycle (0,01 seconds at 50 Hz) the live is positive, but the next (0,01-0,02 sec), it's negative before changing back to positive again.
As the diodes in a rectifier bridge always connect the side that have positive potential at the moment to the DC positive side (and opposit with negative side) means that both sides will be connected to the live 50% of the time. There will always be a pulsating DC half wave at about 340 V peak to ground on those "live parts" (if mains have 240 V rms AC voltage) - regardless of how the lamp is put in the socket.
So who cares!! You TOOK IT APART, nobody really does that. The just pop that in their lamp. And the do not touch all that shit....
Michel Linschoten ummm, Did you miss the part where the only thing between the aluminum (conductive) heat sink and the live wall voltage is a bit of paint? Touching the heat sink fins (which would be where you grip this bulb when putting it in) could be all that's required to get shocked.
(Granted you should have the power off anyway when changing bulbs, but this is still pretty darn hazardous!)
Michael Graziano True but atleast its not "deadly" like described , it would just damn hurt lol. Iv connected to a light socket before as a kid , just a pretty painfull jab. My friends house was not exactly up to code haha
Will Scott Most countries use 230 volts for residential and I'm not kidding that shit hurts. You almost don't even need to touch it. In the US it's only for ovens 40A and dryers 30A.
would have been good to put your meter across to show the voltage
What's with all the dislikes on this video? Was the whole staff of the manufacturer forced to downvote it?
Inappropriate thumbnail.
@@briantw
What's inappropriate about it?
Ok, let's see...
50% chance of having mains on one of the soldering joints on the front of a very, very bright, very, very HOT bulb...
Risk of touching it on purpose = 0%
Unknown% chance that the insulation on the front board is also insufficient to keep that already 50% chance of mains from extending to the very, very hot heat sink... Risk of touching this on purpose while bulb is lit = 0%
So, pull out your calculators and figure out the potential risk of accidental death by electrocution from touching this bulb, while it is receiving mains, AND after the insulation has been proven to have failed, AND while you are touching something that is grounded for the damn circuit to be completed, AND that grounding is not the same hand that is touching the bulb, i.e. across your heart so that it can, in fact kill you...
How fucking anal retentive can you guys get?!
Constantly bending over backwards to find fault with anything that was not made to your insanely stringent standards that were written as if every single member of your society is a fucking moron!
That's why there are 1300+ dislikes on this video!
Just Julian is wrong :)
Superb review Julian. Aluminium power plate has been in use for around 20 years in my experience, (I saw them used back then for the power stages of industrial motor drives, and they are now widely used for power LEDs too). They are basically single sided PCBs but with an aluminium substrate rather than FR4 or phenolic resin. The insulating layer is a ceramic, and when manufactured under carefully controlled conditions, has a good withstand voltage rating. Power plates are excellent design solutions for many applications requiring good thermal management. However, I would never trust such a thing as safety insulation unless it had a UL rating or similar, (which I've never seen), and I'm sure cheap Chinese jobs like this have nothing of the sort. You are absolutely right about the danger of electric shock here. Have you notified Trading Standards of where you bought this?
If the circuit uses a full wave bridge rectifier and a capacitive dropper then the voltage on the plate is in theory a low DC voltage, not mains although its non isolated and should be double insulated. There is no 50-50 issue though either. It doesn't matter which way around the bulb is plugged into the mains live is always directed to the dropper first via the rectifier diodes in the front half of the bridge, not directly to the plate. Insulation or the lack of it makes the design potentially dangerous.
and that's why turning power off when replacing light bulb is your first step
***** just one that you use to turn lights on/off on the wall should break a hot, right?
Victor Galayda yes. Even with AC, you still got to have a closed circuit for electricity to flow.
***** I am sure that the breaker box still only breaks one of those active wires, which is how a light switch turns the power off. In Australia our mains are AC Alternating Current. That means, the active and neutral will switch between positive and negative, while being opposite each other (unless they are at absolute zero).
Matthew Tremain while ac does switch polarity the only energised wire is the one you brake with the switch. You can hold on to neutral as long as you want it has no potential in relation to a ground. In many industrial applications in US when single phase 120 needed and all you have is 3 phase 480, 4to1 transformer installed with primary hooked between two phases 480. On the secondary side one leg is 120 and other leg is grounded to make a neutral.
I was going to say that :p
50% chance of death, eh? I like them odds, Mister!
A girl was killed here recently in Melbourne, Australia, it appears she bought a cheap, unapproved switching iPhone charger from the local market, and was charging the iPhone and wearing a headset while using a laptop. It appears the cheap charger mulfunctioned internally, and sent 240v through the iPhone and headset which sadly resulted in her being fatally electrocuted. How this untested, unapproved stuff is allowed through the borders, and allowed to be sold, is really unacceptable. Government used to be very strict and crack down on this stuff, it appears they have just given up trying.. so be careful.
They usually regulate the wrong things... hence people die.
*****
No it wasn't a hoax, I live in the next State from where it happened, it's legit. There are ship loads of unapproved dangerous stuff coming in thru Ebay purchases and the like, the government can't stop it coming into the country unless they open every parcel and letter in customs. Some of the stuff I have bought thru Ebay I look at it and say Ummm no, then throw it in the bin, it's lethal. Some stuff is brilliant, works well, well made, safe, some stuff is absolute Shite.
*EDIT:* This post originally read
"Remind me not to buy lighting from China."
it should probably read
"Remind me to check the reviews of a product before I purchase it"
However, several commenters have pointed out that shoddy merchandise or electrical components could be made in any country. My original post was a bit Jingoistic on my part, however I am leaving it up because It is a mistake that I made, and I don't hide my mistakes.
I generally enjoy purchasing affordable electronics from China, but I think I will avoid anything that doesn't use batteries.
Yes, but they generally wont electrocute me.
Wang Cian hahaha if was made by Germans it's still not good rofl...you can find lighting not made in china and not with chinese components, with longer warranties too, but just be prepared to pay for it
in my opinion one of the most important factors is the assembling process ... and which country is famous for accurate assembling ?
If you don't edit it, then how will people know that you have learned from your mistake? I would edit if I were you. It's a bit too honest to display your previous mistakes.
the mains power is being reduced by the time it comes out the two wires that touch the leds. so like someone mentioned below you wouldnt be getting shocked with the power of the outlet -- just whats being given to the bulbs. not likely to be much.... possibly enough that the few microns of insulation can handle it.
I'm not sure what is going on when some claim this is scaremongering, but maybe it's an expression of hopeless ignorance (sorry). Any circuit powered by> mains supply< without transformer carries hazardous voltages whether there are rectifiers, resistors, capacitors and what else included. Such circuits are only safe if they are installed in isolated box with at least 8mm safe distance from the curcuit (legal requirements) to any conducting material that can be touched and it's obviously not here. I have worked with electronics for 50 years ...I have learned something.
To all doubters ... please accept dangerous voltage despite the diodes are operated with low voltage. So it is with these circuits that I learned already when I was 14 years old.
Thanks for trying to explain to those who need to know better. You are right of course.
The circuit works as follows. The large ceramic cap and 360k resistor work as an RC time constant to passes enough current to the bridge to charge the electrolytic filter cap and create filtered dc current for the LEDs.
The rub comes from the fact that the entire circuit can be installed backward resulting in an equally functional but very dangerous situation where the entire unit is referenced to line voltage instead of to ground.
Good catch Julian. I hope you didn't find it the hard way. :P
I am an electrical engineer with several years experience designing power electronics so I can speak with some authority on this subject. Now while I may not agree entirely with everything said in this video, I must say that anybody arguing that somehow the connections to the LEDs on the front panel are safe is propagating misinformation and making themselves and others candidates for a Darwin Award.
Anything connected to mains is considered a 'hazardous voltage' until it is isolated by an appropriate barrier. A transformer is one way, but there are others. This lamp has NO ISOLATION between the mains and 'accessible conductive parts'. The electrical safety standards do not allow for this. This lamp would never achieve compliance with any electrical safety standard I know of.
But while you are considering this lamp have you ever looked inside a phone charger. The type with a USB socket on the side? I can tell you now, they should meet EN60950 (almost everywhere except Germany who use a VDE standard) which requires the primary (mains) conductive parts on the pcb and the conductive secondary (5V output) parts on the pcb to have a minimum clear space between them of not less than 6.4mm across the surface of the pcb or 3.2mm in air provided the parts are well anchored (so they cannot move closer together even if the thing is dropped or hit).
I have yet to find a phone charger that meets EN60950.
Typical clearances are not 6.4mm, but in some cases even less than 1mm.
This lamp is no better and may be worse except for the fact that lamps are not usually so easily touched
Whether this lamp gives you a shock or not is a matter of luck more than anything else. There is very little that need go wrong before this lamp would be dangerous to touch while powered.
If you are a budding electronics enthusiast, that's great but don't start talking about things of which you clearly know very little. Julian may not be 100% accurate, but anybody arguing that he's 100% wrong is an idiot. Just think about this: what separates the mains voltage from the exposed conductive parts? Here's an acid test to see what you really think of the isolation barrier: would you be happy with your child for example playing with something connected to mains and having only that same thing separating the mains from your child? If you still think this lamp is ok then I am bewildered by the fact that you have survived long enough to be old enough and managed enough education to use a computer to make your stupid posts on here. I mean, what are the chances!?
This is good information. I installed 3 similar bulbs I bought from ebay in each of my 2 kitchen light fittings. One of them literally blew up in the light fitting, shattering the glass face and shooting glass shards and the inner workings of the bulb, all over the kitchen. Furthermore, the remaining bulb contents which were now hanging from the ceiling light fitting, actually caught fire and there was a bare flame dangling from my kitchen ceiling. I immediately removed the bulbs from each fitting and reported them to the local fire service who have told me to talk to trading standards to have them analysed. Nothing came of that though. Beware!
I'd separate the LED disc and apply the appropriate DC power to it. Might be good for a mobile spotlight or for camping.
Jeff Flowers That would be the safest option
Jeff Flowers i was thinkin the same thing for a couple bucks
+Jeff Flowers What kind of current are we talking? What kind of voltage/ampere? I need a bright light, batteries or rechargable, for on my bicycle. And I mean bright.
+Julian Ilett That doesn't quite work, all LEDs are in series, speaking of that, it's high voltage DC applied.
+Jame Gumb A fairly typical LED used on these types of bulbs operates between 5 and 6 volts and pulls around 20-30 mA. For 16 of them like in this bulb, it'd be around 4.8 A or 24W.
Julian,
I bought some similar SMD LED bulbs from ebay in Nov 2013. On Ebay it was claimed they had CE Certification. When they arrived I took the precaution of checking out the metal outer case with a voltmeter and discovered 3 out of 10 bulbs with mains voltage on the outer metal case. After (easily) opening one of the bulbs I found a similar problem to the one you highlight in your video. I my case the issue was tiny screws holding the PCB in place had caused a short to the metal work. I tried warning the supplier but they were not interested so I reported it to trading standards. Impressively, their reaction was swift. They purchased the same bulbs, had them checked and then raided the sellers premises in the UK seizing all their very considerable stock. They later showed me copies of the purported certification which was laughable. Problem is, as they said to me, whilst Ebay continue to allow these companies to trade closing them down is almost imposable, they simply set up again the next day under a different name.
With regards the Home bargains lamps mentioned by AintBigAnitClever, I have bought some of these and was impressed. They have a ceramic base and a solid glass body so are well insulated and can't be easly taken apart. So far they have worked well.
Keep up the good work with large LED's. I'm playing with them too and your videos are a great help.
Purclewan.
rectifier bridge means AC is rectified to dc before exit to circuit
+David Meritt You are correct. A bridge rectifier can also be used to make sure DC ends up configured in a desired manner. If the positive/negative source leads of a DC powered device are connected where AC input is normally connected on the bridge) the output of the bridge will always be in the desired configuration, even if the source leads are accidentally reversed positive/negative - as it is just as if the other cycle of AC had happened and the bridge reacts accordingly. I have seen mobile equipment deliberately configured this way to keep users from blowing things up by connecting the power leads incorrectly... :-)
+Mark Magill
You'll have rectified AC voltage with a charged capacitor on the positive wire if the circuit is for some reason interrupted. i.e. 230VAC turns out as 325VDC if there is no load to the capacitor. The missing thermal compound between LED aluminium circuit board and heatsink makes this scenario a lot more likely. nasty shit that shouldn't be on the market
+David Meritt why would he actually test it when he could just make wild claims out of nowhere with no evidence to back it up?
That makes perfect sense I am an electrician and we had to change a load of these one day at a pub. The customer had brought them cheap an i did receive a shock of one, it was a down lighter so i presumed id touched the terminals at the top. But when looked they were all covered. I took the lamp out put it back in, turned power back on couldn't find any problem. Bet that's what had happened
So I guess licking it would be out of the question then? I need a bulb I can safely lick.
lol - top comment
agreed..fuck im guessing we all should move out our homes and quit driving too ,,and oh yes knives they cut ,, isnt rubbing alcohol flamable as well? never mind ,,ill opt to just let stupid people either buy cheap shit from china or even better ,,not warn them about touching uncovered wires.or circuitry.
RXFARM1 Really? I suspect his intent is that everyone can't be as smart as YOU. I bet if your kid bought one of these and took a jolt that damaged his heart you would just slap him for being stupid?
Konichi Wawa i wouldnt ,,,but the light would lolllllllllllllllll
Konichi Wawa i would slap my kid just for being on the internet
just to point out it does matter what way round you plug it in it AC current. this means alternating it swaps between live and neutral at around 50 to hertz (per second) so if this basics of electronic principle evades you then please don't comment. the holder that is clipped onto thw desk has two exposed points that's where the bulb goes in you should never change a bulb with the power on Also it's never the voltage that kills its the amps. you can grab 240v mains in your hand and let go (speaking from experience here) that's my rant over
It doesn't "swap between live and neutral". The voltage on the live side alternates between + and - peak volts. The neutral potential remains close to ground. Your other claim is equally misguided. It would be more accurate to say the energy of the shock (in Joules) is the lethal factor - though obviously the path through the body and physiological factors also play a part. While it's true that a mini Joule shock from a high voltage source - such as experienced when peeling off a nylon shirt - is not dangerous, a low voltage (say 30V) shock from a low impedance source when the body is well grounded could be lethal. Try applying Ohm's Law.
Fancy a nasty shock?
death pretty much
+Julian Ilett Here in the USA we might get away with a nasty 115v shock, but in the UK the mains voltage is double or 230v. This has a much better chance of killing you.
yes because the current is basically unlimited on a non-GFCI outlet which means practically every overhead light fixture in the USA, & even most up-to-code indoor wall outlet recepticles.
+ArJuna22 Not true. You're making the age-old mistake of thinking that more volts means more danger. I have been zapped plenty, in both the US and EU, and I will attest, the US is a tad bit more uncomfortable. You see, 240 at 50Hz is 1/6th slower than the 115 at 60Hz.
+Julian Ilett No UL stamp? Do you have a similar organization in the UK?
Unbelievably unsafe.
Also unsafe are the comments being made by people who think they understand electronics.
1. IF the circuit does not have a voltage limiter - it is simply limiting the current to prevent frying the leds. The LEDS themselves will clamp the voltage across them to a 'lower level'. But if a led dies and the circuit goes open , then the voltage on those terminal will rise to mains and supply the same current that the leds needed - presumably more than 30mA.
The 370K resistor would only allow 0.6mA to pass - nowhere near enough to power the leds. It is probably used to discharge the cap - preventing a shock from the terminals if unplugged. It's in the right position to assume that.
That means the current is only limited by the capacitor as normal for a dropper like this - the diode ... well that just gives you a DC shock instead!
Didn't look like the cap was a safety X or Y rated one - so could go short circuit .. even more current - or fire.
2. It cannot possibly be deemed safe if there is no protection against touching any 'directly live' terminal - regardless of where its fitted.
3. Safe design considers what happens if a part fails ..
Never seen one without a lense over the LEDs!
You are absolutely right. 240Vac deserves more isolation than a few microns at best. This product would never get a CE rating in this configuration. Aside from the isolation issue between the aluminum back plane and the mains, there is an additional concern.
If you attach the bulb without power applied, that offers risk reduction, but what if the light output stops or becomes intermittent? Will the average consumer know to not touch the light with power applied? Likely not. I've done that many times. GU10 sockets should be avoided if one wants to use LED lighting from non-CE qualified/certified LEDs. This type of issue has surfaced on other YT channels as well.
It would have been nice if he showed us the danger with a multimeter. Talk is cheap. So are multimeters.
a spare light and scrap wire can be a test light, will do the same thing, and cheaper
And that's why big name-brand manufacturers mold their products together to discourage people from dismantling them and finding the serious risks that lie within. Good show, I hope manufacturers take notice!
One way to tell if the live is wrong is to tap to exposed metal quickly with a least favourite finger. If it hurts the switch off and turn the bulb around. This tip comes courtesy of Darwin Awards Safety At Work Videos 1958.
Make sure to use your left hand.
Thank you. I am an electrician by trade. I didn't know this. Yet have been of many jobs using GU10s and similar lamps. The companies I tended to work for were primary builders, so we generally fitted the filament lamps, leaving it to the customer to change later. This is definitely something to remember.
Just a suggestion, but it might be something you could report to the IEE I don't know if you are with them, as a JIB spark I have to be.
it doesn't matter which way round the input is as the output of a bridge rectifier is always the same. bridge rectifiers not only convert AC to DC but also polarize the output in the correct way regardless of input
A lot of the negative comments seem to assume that the lowish voltage at the LEDs is galvanically isolated from the mains voltage as though there was an isolating transformer in it..
Also many of us that have had electric shocks tend to feel that we will get away unscathed every time. The truth is that without unsafe equipment or working practices we would not have had the shocks in the first place. The uploader was right to point out that there is very little clearance between a high voltage point and the metal work... many of these little spotlights are used in kitchens and bathrooms which can have high humidity and generally be more hazardous. I have similar lamps to these in my kitchen, not the same construction but they are madly efficient and I was getting tired of changing halogen lamps...
Great review Julian! There is a lot of misconception here about the way AC works, and Isolation. First off.... A bridge rectifier provides NO ISOLATION, full wave or half wave. The diodes are connected directly to the mains, and the rectifier's job is to change AC to DC. This is all the 4 diodes do in a full wave configuration. The only way to isolate you from the mains is to use an isolation transformer. Those two exposed wires on the top of that lamp carry DC, completely un-isolated from the mains. Secondly.... AC in most houses, has what is called "Neutral Phase" which is simply the center tap of the secondary winding on the pole transformer. By making neutral phase, common in every house, reduces electric shock by keeping this a Common Situation between all houses..... Hence: "Common."
Here's where people get confused, AC is alternating, which means that both sides of your outlet are really hot, only at one half of the cycle. The large slot here in North America is Neutral Phase or Common, or the center tap of the tranny on the pole. The small slot is called "hot" because it is one outer leg of the pole transformer's secondary. Again, both hot and neutral are alternating meaning at one point of the cycle, the neutral could actually be called Hot. Realistically, in all AC outlets, at one half of the cycle, one side, or the other, is hot. This applies to everywhere in the world.
Hope This Helps.
What you're saying about the neutral being hot at any point of the cycle doesn't make any sense. In North America the neutral (large slot) is wired to ground at the breaker panel. When properly wired it is electrically connected to the round ground slot in the outlet through the wiring to the breaker panel. The neutral should never have any significant voltage on it, only the very low voltage drop from the panel ground to the outlet caused by current flowing through the very low resistance in the wiring to the outlet neutral. The AC Hot changes from being positive potential for half the cycle to negative potential for the other half of the cycle. For 240 volts, one phase is positive with respect to neutral/ground and the other is negative wrt neutral/ground. The two 120 Volt AC signals out of phase 180 degrees add up to 240 VAC. The neutral should never be live!
Wa Buzzoo Quote: The two 120 Volt AC signals out of phase 180 degrees add up to 240 VAC. The neutral should never be live!
Ok, In North America our appliances run on 120V and we have a large slot in our plug that is considered common. If you look at the situation from a schematic point of view, the center tap of the pole pig is connected to that large slot, and the center half moon of the outlet is the safety ground, tied at the panel, to a ground rod pounded into soil. This is why it's considered ground and you don't get a shock. It's "common." The bottom line is, It's AC. So for 120Volts operation, Picture This:..... If you ignore the other winding that we are not using in this 120V circuit ( from center tap, to the other outer leg ), we have one leg classified as common and one hot. What difference would it make if we use one outer leg or the center tap of the transformer in this situation? Remember, we only have 120 coming in. It makes no difference, because technically we would have a single ended transformer then. My point being is, AC has no polarity. Since we have a center tapped tranny on the pole to provide 240V, grounding the center leg is the only option to get two 120V lines, 180 degrees out of phase from each other. So at the normal house outlet, we have technically a single ended ac signal, with one end classified as common that's tied to ground, and one that's hot.
So again, think of it this way, if we only had 120V coming into the house, and you made the first decision "EVER" to pick what side would be neutral? What side would you pick? Well, take your pick! Then make that neutral "common" to all houses and pound in a ground rod. ( Its still AC, and now in phase with all the other houses. ) Now you have your large slot and safety ground so you don't get a shock, and the other side that you can call "hot."
But since we have 240 running to some larger appliances, it only makes sense to ground the center tap of the tranny and make that common. Remember it's AC, there is no + or -
So this is why neutral or common isn't classified as LIVE, and why we all don't get shocked.
Mr Carlson's Lab In conventionally wired systems (i.e., not the hypothetical system with transformer having an end tap tied to ground that you mentioned) the neutral is tied to the ground connection in the panel. So the neutral is zero volts with respect to the planet, given that the ground is actually tied to a rod driven into the earth, a pretty consistent and stable zero voltage reference point. The 60 Hertz wave on a 120 Hot line switches polarity with respect to the planet 120 times a second. So on a average time frame there is no + and - with AC, but instantaneously the hot could be positive or negative with respect to the planet; so yes there is + and - and it changes but only on the hot of the outlet. 60 times a second the 120 volt hot peaks at +169.7 volts, and 60 times a second it peaks at -169.7 volts. You could see this on an oscilloscope that was connected from ground (planet) to the hot. The same scope on ground to neutral will show zero. The neutral is kept at the same potential as the planet.
One side or the other of the outlet are not hot for half the cycle. Don't spread that around. Only the hot can supply voltage that will drive a current. Stating that at one point in the cycle the neutral could be called hot is false. The neutral is never hot if properly wired. You should never be able to draw any power through the neutral to ground. If you can (indicating a hot neutral), your wiring is wrong and you should get an electrician to fix that.
Wa Buzzoo Quote: You should never be able to draw any power through the neutral to ground.
Well of course you won't because they are tied together. I think you are looking at this through electricians eyes.
Ok...... AC alternates between 2 leads. What are the two leads in your AC outlet? The only reason we classify one side of the outlet Hot, is because its the outer leg of the tranny. The center tap has to be tied to common, neutral for two 120V lines. (and for safety too) Yes the common is held at Earth ground, but it is still AC. AC means "Alternating" ....... the current is alternating between 2 wires. Meaning both wire carry current. If both wires carry current, is one "really" neutral? Get the picture? In your quote you say it yourself :
60 times a second the 120 volt hot peaks at +169.7 volts, and 60 times a second it peaks at -169.7 volts.
Ok, so when it peaks at -169.7V, which side is positive in respect to that?
Could that be the Neutral, Common?
If you are still confused, get a center tapped transformer that has a low secondary voltage...say 12 Volts ct. Make sure the primary and secondary windings are isolated, Don't want you getting hurt. Get your oscilloscope out, set the time base to 10ms per division, That will give you a nice display. Now apply the center tap of the tranny, to the scope probe center. Then remove probe, reverse wires and apply center tap to probe ground, then tell me what side is hot.
If your not confident in your electrical skills, don't try the above!!!
Mr Carlson's Lab Oh ya, WA Buzzoo, I'm taking for granted that you know how to use a scope, So I trust that you realize how to connect the other lead of the oscilloscope probe. I was a little vague in the description.
Why not plug it in, show the voltage on a meter if it is lethal?
and you didn't even try to plug the voltmeter to the metal round thing to check if it was really running power
Might be more than met your eye on the tiny drop circuit. Perhaps a voltage tester on those front contacts showing a reading would be more convincing since LED generally are not a direct connect to 220-240v.
You plug it in 220V and on the other end you get 12V so it is not killing power there in that bulb(thats is why you got a diode,capacitor and resistor in it) , so did you measure voltage on the other end??? When you do share the results with us! :D
Wrong - the 12V is only there if the LEDS are working. If one led dies, there may be an open circuit and nothing to clamp the voltage to a 'safe' level.
The driver here is not a voltage limiter, it is designed to limit the current to prevent frying the leds. The leds themselves keep the voltage clamped.
Remove or destroy a led - the volts on those two terminals will hit 240 V ( 120 V usa ) , and supply a nice potentially lethal current.
rowifi it is not logical ,if one dies voltage stay the same 12v there is no reason for V to go higher.
Vladan Umicevic Imagine that there are NO Leds connected. The circuit is then just a capacitor, with a rectifier. Connected to the mains. There is no voltage regulator that we can see on this circuit. The voltage on the two wires will be mains - ( DC ). The same would be true if there was a high value resistor instead of the capacitor. The voltage will be mains. The capacitor is acting like a resistor to limit the current when it is connected to a load ( the leds ).
If there are no leds, the load will be anything that touches the terminals, and the current that flows will be dependant upon the capacitor value and the resistance of .... you.
The Leds actually are acting as individual mini voltage regulators. Look up Led / Diode forward voltage. No matter what voltage you apply to a led ( provided there is a series resistance to limit the current ( i.e. the cap ), the led or leds will maintain a couple of volts across each of themselves. That's what diodes do. Just like Zener diode regulators - but in reverse.
So, lets assume that all the leds are in series in this circuit. There would be about 2V x 16 leds, about 30 volt across them in total. So while all leds are on and working, the voltage across the terminals will be set at about 30V. If you touch across the terminals you would probably be OK. The leds are taking the most current - your resistance to earth ( or where ever ) would be higher than the leds effective resistance - so (probably ) no shock.
If any of the leds went open circuit, none of the leds would be conducting, and so they would not be taking current and therefore not 'locking' the voltage at 30V.
If you touch the terminals, you would get mains voltage at whatever current the capacitor together with your body resistance would allow - nasty.
Remember, there is no voltage regulation before the leds - the leds themselves are clamping the voltage to a lower level - so long as they are ALL operating correctly.
I hope that helps.
Vladan Umicevic
There would be dangerous voltages present. Go off and study properly. Rob Field is right.
There are two types of mini track lights, and GU10 ARE mini track light lamps.
There is the GU10 type, which uses either 120v AC or 240 v AC lamps. The other type of mini-track light uses a 12v DC lamp. Each lamp holder has a transformer assy built into it, to convert the AC mains power to 12v DC for the lamps.
I THINK the tracks are the same for the two types, so if you have a GU10 type, you could buy the DC type and switch the lamp holders.
More dangerous shite from China. Bloody good illumination, let down by shoddy design.
To silence all the "it's not as dangerous as it looks" folks, I'd suggest testing it with a probe attached to an incandescent light bulb rather than a meter or neon screwdriver. If the bulb lights, there's no argument - the bloody thing's live.
Very tempted to buy a load of random ones from eBay and put them to the test, especially as not all GU10s end up out-of-reach, they can find their way into desk lamps and other easily-accessible locations (a friend of mine has GU10s in a sloping attic wall/ceiling).
LOL! Now I read a few of the comments.
Really, the stupidity, it hurts. Guys who think "aluminium heatsinks don't conduct electricity" or "the heatsink is just for cooling so it's safe", or "LEDs can only run on DC" (to those: did you get the part where he said bridge rectifier or is a 4 minute video already stretching your attention span too much?), or "it's DC, so there's no live anymore", or "LEDs only need 12v or so, so there can't be live on the front".
Could all of you who doubt the contents of the video please buy a few of these bulbs? You would do the world and future generations a favor. (but to be clear: only those not having procreated are eligible for the Darwin award).
Please look at the other videos on this channel. If you really still think he has no idea what he's talking about, look up "Dunning-Kruger" and after that by a few more of these bulbs!
lol.... exactly......i would rather recomend these guys to buy a book of basic electronics first , read it and then comment !!!
lol you call them stupid when you have absolutely nothing right.
First of all heatsinks are designed to draw the heat away from the hot object. Heatsinks are not used as electrical conductors. Sure they can conduct electricity but no one uses them for that you idiot. How stupid.
Secondly these series of small LED's don't require 12V fool. I have actually taken one apart myself and they require more like 30V since each LED run on about 3.5V just like so many other small led's do.
Also this circuit isn't evil and is actually good for different fittings like B22 or Edison screw types. Just not for this GU10 it isn't that good.
Lastly you obviously don't understand how being electrocuted works and must believe the movies where if a live wire hits a puddle a few meters away from you that you are standing in that it is going to kill you. In truth that isn't how electricity works.
You must have the current running through your body to actually kill you. Best way is to have both wires in separate hands and this will cross through your chest and stop your heart.
Also Mr genius actually touching a live wire will not kill you unless you can complete the circuit as if you were grounded very well which in most cases isn't the case.
Also I don't know what you are on about but in DC the positive and negative are live wires. A live wire is just a wire with current running though it you idiot. And in say like a 240V system like over here in AU we have 2 alternating live or hot wires that are each 120V.
ziongite
Thanks for helping me prove my point. You couldn't have done better. Throwing an insult into every paragraph really shows you know your stuff. You also seem to be very good at reading and understanding english text, and comprehend the meaning of markers like quotes. Please probe your next outlet with a piece of wire (only one contact at a time of course, because it's only safe like that).
ziongite I just pissed my pants of laughing when reading your comment, but at the thought of you being serious I got a strong headache..
superdau
lol thats funny shit! i love how some people just dont get it! it's a wonder how that fool is still alive!
This whole video can be debunked in the first 3 minutes. He says it himself "There is a bridge rectifier, a smoothing cap, and electrolytic cap". The bridge rectifier immediately converts mains to DC. He then goes on to say that mains AC will be on the terminal 50 percent of the time you plug it in depending on which way you plug it in. Not true. The bridge rectifier rectifies both halves of the AC wave and combines them into DC before any of the other circuit. Lastly... electrolytics blow up when you hook them up backwards. LOL. Simple
one sensible person..... ive used a lot of these mains Capacitor power supplies myself ..... it does give a slight tingle if you touch even the led side of the wiring .... but nothing lethal
atomgonuclear .
Vijay Kumar r
+1, You are correct in the rectifier would prevent "live mains". The producer of this video sounds like he knows what he's talking about, but he doesn't . Glad to see someone else correct him. Good Job Adamgonuclear. Thanks
Atomgonuclear - when you have a theoretical knowledge of electronic circuits, you laugh at other people. The bridge rectifier will not protect you from mains. It maybe DC between output terminals, and even safe low voltage DC. However, if you touch, you introduce a new path for the current; you will have the full mains voltage, minus one diode drop of 0.6v, across your body.
The statements made in this video are totally correct both technically and with regard to the safety issues. Just to answer a couple of points raised in Comments: a bridge rectifier does not safely isolate the DC side from AC mains and even if it did 240v DC is as dangerous or more dangerous than 240v AC; the voltage applied to the LEDs is irrelevant to the discussion - the voltage relative to earth is what is important.
noice video but you should have actually demonstrated it by plugging it in the wrong way and measuring voltage and current at the heat sink.
+xxBlackpspxx I have a similar GU10 spot and I felt Bett dropped the ball on this by not measuring the voltage across the exposed pins. For the right price I'd be willing to wire those up to a pair of nipple clamps and subject my man boobs to the live circuit, I'm *that* convinced the LED is powered by DC.
There is no such thing as a "AC powered LED" right?
there is
cannibis sativa no there isn't. They are just AC-DC converter and an ledin the same unit.
@@fredrikcarlen3212 You can power an LED on AC with just a simple resistor but the light will flicker and it will shorten the life of the LED.
Fantastic , a real good reason for purchasing a all included embedded product. The comments about not touching shows a lack of understanding.
coxy1956 @
difference of 220V and 120V lies in the 120 forcing the muscles to contract as opposed to 220 actually pushing you away. doesn't the 220 there lie with 110 on each leg? I am not sure of the configuration of the AC where you are from, but in the US, one leg is 110 and the other is neutral (tied to ground at fuse box). The power is going through a rectifier and filtered by the caps and limited by the resister circuitry. Have you actually measured the voltages you are speaking about or are you merely theorizing based on the AC characteristics there? I see some issues with the ground (reference) being lifted or modified as the delivery voltage is dropped to around 12VDC for the LEDs to work properly... remember that reverse current through an LED even of minuscule amount is death for them, so we are talking DC on the output side you are examining.. even if it is ripply and not filtered completely out. I am not doubting your conclusions because I do not know the circuitry you are examining, but I have looked at some COBB lights here in the US.. but they are 110V units with E27 connections. Here they are isolated via a cap, so ground reference is removed (which I think you are eluding to as the shock hazard if I understand correctly).. Can you provide a schematic of your bulb for more clarification as a way to help understand the concerns? I am trying to understand how you are seeing full AC (or even half-rectified AC) at the LED leads exactly without the LEDs turning into tiny mushroom clouds... :-)
+Stan Skaggs It is the current that kills (or burns) - you need a voltage to push the current through the body and anything above about 50V alternating current (120V Direct Current) can be lethal - it depends very much on the contact path. Damp skin lowers your body resistance.
Geoff Ryan That would be true, except these bulbs are fully rectified and capacitively decoupled. If one were to pour water into the bulb to arc the current over to the DC side (part that you touch), I could see danger there like you are trying to describe. I work on these all the time and do not see your point exactly since the open side is the DC side. Any reverse current like you are describing would annihilate the LEDs via reverse current flow (definition of AC). Do you have a schematic to review of these lights to see what I am trying to convey to you? If the AC side were to make contact with the DC side, I could see your point, but that is just not the case... Sorry, but it is wrong..
***** You are correct to a point in that current is the factor in which fibrillation commences. The point that I think you are missing is that alternation of that current is necessary to form fibrillation cycles though. A typical fibrillator in a hospital surgical suite is a DC device which MUST be changed to AC in order to scramble AV node current. The fact is that DC is highly subjective to resistance than AC is. This makes DC current damage more likely to be convective than intrusive as AC is in the form of fibrillation (largest concern for AC shocks).
You guys are making statements regarding electricity safety which are in fact valid and mathematically correct, but DC damage is more heat related where AC is invasive to the nervous and thus the cardiovascular system.
Here in our hospital, we test constantly for electrical leakage on equipment powered by AC mains, but anything DC related is simply ignored to that fact. Even NFPA99, as well as the NEC regulations point this out very clearly and substantially. If I short my radio to AC the radio will blow for sure as well as I would be shocked via the AC mains.. as will these bulbs if the AC drifts over to the DC side of the circuitry.. That is known as being "broken" of "shorted" to mains.
The simply truth behind these bulbs and nearly all our modern home electronics is that these are DC devices rectified in the exact same manner to perform their functions.
Sorry if this is long winded as well, but these are simply the cold hard facts.
Back when Edison and Tesla fought over the harnessing of the Niagra Falls for power production, Edison pointed to the dangers of the AC current, killing animals in public to point that out. This is another extension of this case argument in reverse, and not accepting the nature of the consumer-side of the bulbs being pure DC just like a D-cell or car battery.
Come on!
I am not an electric engineer so maybe i am wrong but what he said is: mains and neutral (ground). My understanding is that mains goes through the circuit (the resistor basically) and the ground is not. Which means that if you interchange ground with the mains you will have to provide for the resistance, unless you're perfectly cut off from the ground of course.
You're obviously an electronics guy. Instead of telling us how bad it is, why don't you show us how bad it is. Put a meter across the leads on the face plate. Then put a meter between each of them and ground. It would do several things, including putting all the fighting to a swift end, showing exactly how much potential is there, and show how dangerous it is. 4:34 of telling us it's bad, you couldn't find 15 seconds to meter it?
elitejohnlp strange v tac daylight 600 mm lamp supply gives 265 volts a home cocket 235 v tac shit?
elitejohnlp he likes the sound of his own voice.
Thanks for this video. Nice to know your out there attempting to keep us alive. Cheers from across the pond in Newfoundland, Canada
I stumbled upon your video here in the dredges of UA-cam. Thanks for posting. Unfortunately, you do not appear to understand how LED's (or diodes in general) work. I confess that I didn't read all of the replies or comments here, but on the first page no one mentions that diodes only accept voltage in ONE direction. Even though you can cross wire the input, the voltage to the diode remains the same. If by some chance that the + is on those exposed leads, it could pose some risk to you though likely not deadly. Consider a diode to be a type of check valve if you were dealing with a fluid in a pipe. They can be used to convert AC voltage to DC, since they only allow passage of voltage in one direction.
I'm getting tired of this; GO BACK TO SCHOOL - A LITTLE KNOWLEDGE IS A DANGEROUS THING! In the meantime, listen to the bit where he talks about a thing called a "bridge rectifier". I hope your ears burn!
Is a four minute video already to much for your attention span? (btw. you'd only need to make it to about 2 minutes to hear where your first mistake is).
And have you looked at his other videos? Do you really think that with the stuff he builds he has no idea how diodes work? Be honest and state that you understand and can explain the contents of his other videos. Then you have the right to call him out on "not understanding".
As long as the bridge is functioning the positive voltage will never end up where it's not supposed to be. The rectifier not only changes the A.C. into D.C. but it always puts the positive voltage out on the same line no mater how you have it plugged into the socket. The only way to have positive voltage in the wrong place is if the rectifier would short. Diodes / rectifiers are most likely to open rather than short so it's extremely unlikely that line voltage will ever reach those two solder pads. The other thing to consider is that you can safely touch either side of an A.C. voltage as long as you are not grounded or also touching the other side. If the heat sink is not grounded and you did end up with line voltage on those solder pads it would do nothing unless you were also touching your house ground or standing in a puddle of water in your bathtub.
Useless information and hypothetical. Do make a REAL test with a multimeter touching the heatsink? I changed over 200 bulbs of this type in 110v and 220v and none have electrocuted me.
Anecdotal evidence doesn't really hold up any more than his assertion, now does it?
No, the heatsink isn't actually live because of the few microns of insulation on the LED plate. But the two connection points on the front of the plate are live.
wtf are you talking about poles in an AC device?
either end should be hot every 1/50th of a second...
Engineers do a lot of stupid crap like that. Very irksome.
I bought a front and rear light set for my bicycle. The head light used several AA batteries, while the rear light used several AAA batteries. Why not use one kind of battery and only one battery per unit? Then the head light fell off and shattered on the pavement, so I went with a hiker's headlamp that one wears on one's head. Great for biking, except that adjusting the beam focus immediately pulled the wires lose inside. Two different brands in a row did that.
Then I spent $160.00 on an Olight headlamp, supposedly the best on the market. It was defective. The retailer replaced it, but then the wires pulled loose from the head piece with very light usage. Then the proprietary battery pack went bad.
I could go on and on about the incompetent designs I've paid for.
How would the LED's work with the current going in the opposite direction? LED's only work in one direction so how can it be 50/50?
A bridge wave rectifier will convert the AC to DC and doesn't care how you hook the AC up to it. How you hook AC to it is merely a safety issue as discussed by the presenter. You can with even more political prisoner excrement encrusted examples find just a diode and resistor and enough LEDs to do the half wave rectification providing only half of the AC for use. It too can be hooked up to AC either way. It's why strings of LEDs will flicker as you move them or move your eyes quickly.
All the bulbs I've bought have glass/plastic covers and I haven't been worried about it coming off, they weren't quite as cheap; at least a bit safer. I'd agree with your review safety worries on these ones..
i don't mean to troll, but doesn't the bridge rectifier prevent that from happening?
Araon pottor Nope - the entire circuit that comprises the voltage drop and DC conversion is only on one wire. Go back and watch the video again - of the two pins, one goes through the fancy circuit, and one goes directly up to the surface of the bulb. Now in normal operation is is okay-ish as the entire circuit will operates as a circuit. But if you were to screw the bulb in 'backwards' and get 240V at the surface of it, when you touch that bare wire you don't have a bridge rectifier or capacitor in your hand. So your body just provides a ground path for raw mains power.
holysirsalad Wow, a bridge rectifier that works with one lead, now that is cutting costs to the bone. Uh, how's that work?
There is a bridge and cap on the board making a dc supply for the leds, his point is that the entire circuit and heatsink could be referenced to the hot wire instead of line neutral if installed wrong....you grab it and you become a nice circuit to earth ground through one diode on the bridge. bzzt. Your heart doesn't care if it's half wave or not.
I'll take your dodgy GU10 bulb and raise you two dodgy houses I've lived in where the light switches cut off the neutral instead of the live. Imagine the consequences of both combined! :-)
Thanks for that.
There is also another way to electrocute yourself even with the light switch off.
It does require your house wiring as well as the LED to be 'faulty' but this can occur.
If the 'Polarity' in the lighting circuit or main house wiring is 'reversed' turning off the light switch
doesn't make the circuit dead.
In this case you'd have to switch off at the main switch.
Well it's not mains voltage at the LED's is it so I don't get what your on about. What are the actual voltage of those LED's? Whatever they are it won't be over 12 volts, probably more like 4.5 volts and it's DC. I'll stick my tongue across those connection points any way round you want to plug it in and enjoy the pleasant tingle!
Why don't you buy one of these, stick it in the mains, then use a AC voltmeter to measure the voltage between those "safe" LED contacts and ground. 50% chance there will be more than 100V AC. Yes across the LEDs themselves there's 4 Volts DC but the 4V DC comes with a free AC imposed on it. For proper electrical insulation a transformer is needed, I did not see one in this lamp.
Peter-Paul Vervoort
Out of interest, have you had a shock off this before?
Such a product: No because I do not buy such crappy products. Of some AC voltage that would show up on a meter: yes unfortunately when I wasn't carefull enough. I think you still don't believe you could get a shock from such a lamp. So here's a thought experiment: imagine a LED flashlight on batteries with a metal case, it is switched ON, so there's 4 Volts, right ? You cannot get a shock from this. Now I am evil and connect the metal case to the Live pin of the mains (110 or 220V AC, whatever you prefer). LED still on so still 4V right ? But would you touch the metal case ? I would not as it is Live ! But also 4 V, the LED only sees 4 V. You would only see 4 V if you were isolated well enough (rubber shoes or floating in air). But your feet are on the floor and that is enough to see the 100 V AC from which you get a shock. Hope that explains it :-)
Well if that's the case report it to trading standards and save someone else from being juiced up. Is there no quality control in the UK anymore or something?
There is (I assume there is in UK, I live in NL), in NL for sure an unsafe product like this will not be allowed on the market. It would never pass a KEMA certification. But Julian bought it on Ebay directly from China circumventing all safety and quality control checks. It's cheaper but comes with a risk so you better know what you're doing.
The bridge rectifier converts the AC from the mains supply to DC to power the LEDs. It doesn't matter which way you connect up the power to the AC terminals of the bridge rectifier, the positive and negative DC output terminals of the rectifier stay the same so the resistor is always there on the positive DC feed to stop you getting electrocuted.
This would fail CE and C-Tick approvals. This would make the product ILLEGAL in pretty-much the whole country...
Nope. The circuit used is reliable from a safety standpoint and very inexpensive. What is not acceptable is how easy it was to disassemble. You'd be required to glue or ultrasonically seal the parts together in the US. What fails from an engineering standpoint is how susceptible to transients and mains fluctuations this would be. I suspect failure rates will tell the tale. It's a passive RC impedance matching circuit where a lot of the excess AC voltage is dropped in the capacitor and a few volts of "margin" in the resistor to arrive at 64VDC at probably 140mA (9W to give the equivalent of 40W incandescent lighting).
Are you serious!? Ok for safety? There is a direct connection from mains to an exposed terminal on the front of the lamp and you think that is ok? What country do you live in? I'll never visit, you have my word!
Stephen Walsh Where do you live? 64 VDC mains and 140mA power? Seriously...
BMan18 Where did i say i have 64VDC mains???
1. The main purpose of a "Bridge rectifier" is to convert AC into DC irrespective of the polarity. So even if it is plugged the other way round it will not swap the positive and negative. As these are diodes, it will never work if it would anyways.
2. There is a step down circuit which steps down the mains to a few volts and amps which should not be lethal.
This was so educational. Thanks a bundle!
Just for information the CE marking just means 'Produced for sale within the EU' it has no implication of passing any safety standards.
The CE marking is required for many products and attests the verification by a manufacturer that these products meet EU safety, health or environmental requirements. www.gov.uk
The CE marking does NOT mean 'produced for sale in the EU'. It means that the product meets ALL required standards, including safety that the EU demands. This does not mean that the product has actually been tested - rather it means the manufacturer is 'stating' that it meets these requirements. The manufacture takes the risks if it is found NOT to comply, but still doesn't mean it does actually meet the standards - should you choose to have it tested yourself. Everything sold in EU must have the CE mark - that means it meets all the requirements ( MUST is a better word ) - but you are really only taking the manufacturers word for that. Unless you have sight of a test certificate issued by an approved test lab ( easily faked of course ). It is called ' self certification' and therefore the manufacturer assumes responsibility for proving it is safe - if challenged.
These are _perfectly safe._ Remember LED's are _low impedance diodes_ fed through a _dropping resistor._ Assuming that the LED's are run in _series_ There will _never_ be more than *_27 volts_* present at the point you touched.
Even in case the lamp is plugged "in the right direction": If the LEDs fails (which they certainly do within this decade) you will have to change it. And then you have - due to missing load when a led passes out to unlimited restance- again 230V mains on the front. and this is then the situation when you will touch it.
and in some cases "the home electrician" will not be able to tell if it's switched on or off, since the lamp is "off" in both positions.
Always thought it was interesting how you guys across the pond pronounce Aluminum. 3:09
Well done video, good narration
That's because everywhere else in the world, other than the USA, spells it aluminium.
Gray or Grey? Practise or Practice?
You can thank the Compendious Dictionary for bastardizing the english language.
It's so interesting how we have two nations separated by a common language.
Mosin, ghost500 is Right. the Brits' pronunciation is more correct that the US in pronouncing Aluminium. It is a Latin word which originally is pronounced as Aluminio and SO the Whole LATIN-speaking world pronounces it. (and the rest of the world for that matter)
So.....here in the US the MONOlinguals says Aluminum and the Bilinguals (or MULTI as Me) we say Aluminium or Aluminio.
Therefore Mosin54R it is YOU who pronounces it FUNNY
Jess Cast Oh I know, out of all the subtle differences between American and British English; I do have to admit i never noticed THAT spelling change
I'm a Sparky and that has spooked me, so it should make anyone who looks for or runs into this review sceptical about buying from eBay and the like.
I've also been told that a lot of the lamps that are soundly built but do not match the Japanese manufacturers colour requirements in quality checks are then sold off to Chinese buyers, they then sell them on eBay, so apparently if you buy a batch to light one area they may not all be the same colour despite what the seller tells you.
Nice review, don't understand how anyone could give it a negative review?
I saw one diode. I didn't see a bridge rectifier.
Whatatay T No, but he has a "bridge" to sell to you.
*****
That's nice but it only had two pins
Thats a funny explanation.. According to it, i'd have received like 50 shocks from 230V AC current. Also you forgot to show the most interesting part to almost everyone out there: the list of items and the schematics of the circuit. I'd say, there is something on the board, which converts AC to DC or converts + to - if you plug it in "the wrong way"
BUT: It's nice to see the build-up of this 3W GU10 Spot. Thanks for that :)
scaremongering BS a white led has a Vf of about 3.5v DC. If it had 230v ac it would fry. It's a classic transformerless power supply/series capacitor and dropper resistor with bridge rectifier and probably a zener to regulate the probable 12v dc that appears across the front plate on the pink and white. Don't believe me ? put your tongue across it then
The issue is that, regardless of what the voltage across the LEDs is, there is the danger of coming into contact with line voltage when handling it. Also, While you shouldn't have a lamp turned on when changing the bulb, you could brush against it while on, or you may forget to turn it off or have a fixture wired so that the switch is on the wrong wire etc. Basically, any device should be designed so you do not risk touching any wiring, whether it is live or supposedly neutral.
Nasty. Just like the bad old days of live chassis TVs.
I got a nasty shock from a record player in France because of their non-polarised mains...
I've bought several dodgy Chinese LED products - but knowingly - I didn't really expect any MR16 to be a genuine 12 watts - but I was shocked to find Amazon warehousing them.
Just out of curiosity.. was it Amazon itself that was selling these, or one of the various 3rd party sellers? These days, Amazon acts a lot like eBay. In fact, many of the items for sale on eBay are also identically sold on amazon
***** Mine were warehoused by Amazon in the UK, so arrived within a day or two.
. Rest assured I left damning reviews and exchanged some emails with the people in China - though there wasn't the out and out attempted bribery I had when I did the same thing on Ebay.
Amazon didn't seem to care.
Luckily I'm only using my (MR16) lamps on my bike and I doubt they would actually catch fire used indoors - though running so hot, I doubt they would last very long.
I'm just a little disappointed they aren't a bit brighter. So far as I know it's only Philips who make a genuine 10 watt MR16 and then only because they fitted a fan in it !
It seems amazing to me that when the EU can ban the sale of inefficient incandescent lamps, they can allow the sale of "replacements" that bear no relation to the supplied specs - some of them apparently with bogus safety markings.
And why don't Cree do something about a Chinese manufacturer calling themselves "Rotundity Cree" ?
yangtse55 Nice comment man, lots of truths be told! It's surprising Amazon would warehouse illegal stuff, that's really not like them. Though I think Amazon also warehouses incandescent bulbs in the UK, at least that was the case last time I checked? Well whatever, they probably stock-piled a million of them before the ban initiated and claim it's old stock now XD. I'm not sure about MR16, but GU10 can definitely go up to 5-6W of led, above that is certainly fake as you said. How bright do you want your lamps anyway? I have 2 led lamps of 500-600 lumens each above my kitchen table (the 2700k type) and it's bright as fuck.
A better question is; why did the EU ban a perfectly safe lamp, which will be replaced by a mercury-containing alternative? That's the standard energy-saving bulbs. Also, as far as I know, it takes a fair chunk of extremely rare metals to produce leds. So resources will eventually run out, whereas tungsten is present in much more abundant quantities on earth. I can understand the reasoning of wanting to save electricity, though the effect of it causes more damage than incandescent ever could!
What did you mean by "Rotundity Cree" ?
The purpose of a 'mains dropper?' is not to insure that the live is connected to the resistor, but to reduce the amount of current available at the output. There is no 'bridge rectifier', only a single diode. Without looking at the complete circuit diagram I cannot see if one of the wires is indeed a pass through or not. I seriously doubt it and probably one of the capacitors is used to prevent this from happening. LEDs operate at low (2 - 5 Volts) and low amperage (20 - 30 ma per diode). There should be a cover of plastic or glass ( I realize you said there wasn't) for protection of the LEDs and to prevent contact. I really doubt (can't tell from this video) there is a connection of mains , live or neutral, to the LED board. Please provide a schematic of the circuit for examination.
I used to use a tyre machine outside, 240 v straight up my arm every time it rained wheather I was standing on a big rubber mat or not and I'm still here ..come to think of it I've had cancer twice, i've smashed into the front wing of a car doing 30 mph on a pushbike, stuck a moped into a tree, stuffed many cars into trees - bushes, once jumped over armco sideways in a 2 litre mondeo, fell down an open manhole, fell off a horse, and I've kicked the shit out of many a bigger seeming man than me, and vive versa there isn't an Un dangerous light bulb on the planet - why pick on this one? plug it in and let the house fuses decide if it's dangerous or not. better to light a single candle than rally around in the dark .
Hi Five Bro
Sounds like you may have super human traits. Most humanity are kept in the dark, we're just barely leaving "the dark ages" or Kali Yuga.
If indeed true, you may be part of one of The Agendas. If one is unaware of their higher directives, they shall meditate/look within daily to attain clear vision and realization of them.
Listen to this guy, he's absolutely correct that the bulb case will be at mains voltage if the insulation breaks down. Neither the rectifier nor the main dropper circuit provide electrical isolation. Remember that you're standing on the ground and not the output of the dropper circuit when you touch the bulb.
After reading some of the comments, I'm beginning to really concern myself with the intelligence level of mankind?
You mean by powering everything in your house with 240 volts?
why is everyone upset about this? it's simple to explain how a bridge rectifier works..
it turns a full sine wave into a direct voltage similar to the one going in.. then you have something like 120 volts DC (please note that DC voltage has a positive and a negative pole)
with Voltage over 50 Volts you may get electrocuted so there is a resistor to bring that down to a safe voltage both for the user and the LED's.
so when the LED's are ON you have Dc voltage on the front of the spot light, and that DC voltage is lower than 50 Volts so you wont have mains power anywhere past the bridge rectifier...
please understand that i am educated in this matters and have worked very much with similar circuits
If you have worked on similar circuits then you will know that the low voltage on the LED is still REFERENCED to the 230V mains input. This means that it may be just a few volts below the mains voltage or just above neutral depending on which side the dropper capacitor is connected (depends on bulb orientation). If you want isolation then you have to use a proper transformer or a plastic/glass cover on the light.
If you don't understand this then you really shouldn't be working on anything which isn't battery powered. I'm frankly horrified by the level of ignorance in the comments in this channel.
I've worked on safety testing to various standards like EN60950 and EN41003 for many years and had to sign safety declarations for both IT and telecomms products. The funny thing is when you have to make legally binding declarations you tend to work out exactly how things work..
He talks first of a bridge rectifier, unsmoothed that would give pulsating DC.
Then there's a dropper resistor + cap (still DC) and I suspect a parallel zener to the final small electrolytic cap (if it's 1100uf it's certainly not 400v!).
Now we have a smooth DC Voltage to match the LEDs' requirements..
Let's prove the danger is there by connecting a meter to Earth.
This is what he should have done rather than scaremongering.
Why can't that electrolytic capacitor be 400V? How can you prove that a 400V 1100 uF electrolytic capacitors don't exist? I have plenty of 400V 3300 uF electrolytic capacitors in my parts bin. There is no zener diode. Your comment has some flaws. Remember that live can go directly through the bridge rectifier and onto the LED board and then through the capacitor dropper if the lamp is switched around. He knows what he's talking about, the only thing that needs to be checked is one of the pads with that little mains tester screwdriver he has over there. I assume he tested the lamp with that and got a positive result.
Safety is always based on worst case, risk averse, design. Better the be safe, than dead. The analysis was spot on. 1100 was referring to the series capacitor in pF not uF. Never states the value of the electrolytic. Never said the line was shorted to the heat sink. Only that it was insulated from the heat sync by a few mils of plastic ink that could easily (implied) fail and punch through by a line spike. Then the heat sink will kill you. I have seen this many times on line powered products.
A 400V 1000uF cap would be far too big to fit inside the housing. And the small (polyester) cap in the video must be wired _before_ the bridge or it will simply block everything rather than drop some.
Thanks Julian, I have been opening up a lot of these cheap led gu10 bulbs and they really are terrible. But that's the first time I've seen one with an external heat sink and I agree with you. That's a death trap!
Very interesting; unbelievable that this products is on sale.
pourquoi ??
***** Je suis pas fort en anglais mais je comprends pas mal de mots techniques:
Il démonte une lampe à LED conçu n'importe comment et qui est très dangereuse.
En gros elle s'alimente avec le secteur et les isolations circuit électrique/corps métallique sont dérisoires ce qui fait qu'on peut s'électrocuter en agrippant la partie métallique.
Il provient d'ou le danger des led ?
Neymar 213 Non il dit que le danger provient des fils (rouge et blanc) qui arrivent sur le plateau ou se trouvent les LEDs. Et il insiste sur le fait qu'il n'y a que quelques microns entre l'endroit ou la phase arrive et le dissipateur de chaleur qui n'est mis a la terre. Bon maintenant j'ai du mal a piger pourquoi c'est si dangereux puisque le 230v passe a travers un circuit qui a mon sens doit diminuer le voltage sur les fils qu'il decrit (12 volts?).
Manu Delmarche ""puisque le 230v passe a travers un circuit qui a mon sens doit diminuer le voltage sur les fils qu'il decrit (12 volts?).""
12 V +/- ou autre ne veut pas dire inoffensif: certes le circuit additionnel fait chuter la tension qui arrive au niveau des LEDs MAIS vu la manière dont il est conçu il n'apporte en aucun cas une isolation galvanique.
C'est se qu'on appel parfois une alimentation dite "sans transfo" ou capacitive.
Tu obtiens de la TBT entre les bornes de sortie mais il existe toujours une tension dangereuse entre une de ses bornes et le corps humain (potentiel de la terre).
The circuit in this light works by turning 220AC into 220DC then uses a resistor to drive the LEDs. If the LEDs needed 12v at 60mA you would take 220-12 giving 208 and then divide 208 by 0.06 giving you 3.4k ohms.
Please. This is bs and you know it.
this issue was and sometimes is still a problem in the US with the old style spade plugs that do not have the wide neutral. 120 VAC is more dangerous than 240 because 120 can actually "hold" you to the circuit where 240 will push you off.
The mains in the US is 120 - neutral - 120 form factor on the transformer. we get 240 from the two 120 legs to run electric dryers and AC units and the like. The best way you can cure this LED bulb problem is to mark the hot and neutral pins with a sharpie marker and do the same on the bulb adapter.
Why is anyone questioning this- the design is clearly dangerous. A little knowledge is a dangerous thing as some of the replies demonstrate.
Hope you have a split load CU to cover your lighting.
Before you criticise the video go and learn a bit more about electronics.... oh and it IS a 360K resistor.
Thank you for sharing this.
Truly agreed with this explanation..only real safe way to use this is to use a 3 pin plug and use it, that way you can ensure the live always meets the resistor before it reaches the LED..
Please put a stipulation in your description or just take the video down all together. The information you are presenting is incorrect. The components in the back of the bulb do 2 things: 1- drop the voltage and 2- rectify the current from AD to DC. Additionally, LED lights only work in one direction (+ must go to + and - to -), this is the purpose of a diode (light emitting or otherwise). This light bulb can't be considered dangerous. At least in the sense you describe.
+YourBusinessGeek: It absolutely is dangerous.
The issue here is that the active phase is 'dangerous' because pretty much everything else around you, normally including yourself is at the earth potential, which is normally bonded to the neutral. This means that you should be able to safely touch the neutral conductor. However touching the active conductor will generally electrocute you. Regardless of if the active has then been through a rectifier. Rectification just adds to the danger, as it removes the zero crossings that can help to relieve the muscle strain, allowing release from the conductor. Rectified AC has a very large DC component, so your muscles will clamp until the power itself is turned off (hopefully from an RCD / circuit breaker action)
+Bevan Weiss there is no neutral in DC! nor are their phases! jeez! i got three of em on a mobile-thingie above my sons crib, and he puts his slobbery fingers all over them, and even chews on em. aint heard him complain. not once. well, he did get pissy when i handed him a charged photo-flash cap for a binkie, but he mellowed out after a few burns from a hot crank pipe..
but YourBusinessGeek: youre right. why are there no MODERATORS to remove shteeeww-pid videos like this? next thing ya know: "recepticles can kill! one could easily jam a key into a wall socket by mistake and get a DC shock!" and everyone would be that much dumber. and dumber.
Matt Loiselle You honestly have no idea Matt. The voltage is not isolated from the mains supply, so there very much is a neutral connection. If you follow the wire all the way back to your switchboard, it will connect to an earth bar, which will then connect to an earth stake outside. It's possible that you have three different LED lamps, that have isolated DC for the LEDs. The issue with this one is that it is not isolated. Do you know what isolated means when discussing electricity? If not, then you should bow-out of this conversation.
I would like to point out you don't have a 50 percent chance of getting shocked if you touch one of the wires... You have a 100 percent change it doesn't matter which way you plug it in. You are still getting the same difference in potential. The only exception is if you touched a grounded wire. Other than that your fairly spot on. The potential across the 2 wires if one of the LEDs blew would be 220V but its not the voltage that kills.. Its the amps.
This is why I only will buy UL tested lights (underwriter laboratories)
@panda44r Not necessarily, that's a little bit of a weird interpretation. They have guidelines for all different subjects (my expertise is lighting) and I can't pass UL/cUL even if I state that it's a lethal luminaire. The subject category defines the risk factor.
Meaningless since they get a UL listing then slap it on whatever they cram out the next day.
Wow, excellent demonstration. Chief lesson: quality electronics are your best option.
Wow. You need to quit biting you fingernails.
I'm glad I wasn't the only one that noticed
The insides are basicaly the same for every cheap "home eddition" LED there is on the market (at least those I've seen). The only difference is usually that they use two resistors (or a cap and resistor) on both sides, so neither is directly connected to output and they use a bit of glass or plastic to actually cover the top...
Can we make a full 720p video where all the people who say that they understand 'electrical stuff' and that the video is total BS and and that the lamp is perfectly safe are encouraged to probe a live one with their bare fingers (preferably nice and damp) in front of a camera (with sound), so we can make a UA-cam video of it?
This would accomplish at least three very useful things; we would all have a laugh and secondly, Charles Darwin's theory would gain more acceptance and thirdly, several dumb people would stop spouting about things they don't understand by virtue of the fact that they were either in hospital or dead.
Not that the lamp is safe or anything, but I would have no problem touching it with however wet and bare fingers anyone may want me to. That is, as long as I don't have to be part of a circuit. Bare-hand work on conductors up to hundreds of kilovolts is safe with correct work methods ^^
Jimmy Rönnholm Amusing, but I think you are 10,000 light years ahead of some of the people on this thread. A significant proportion of them will read your comment and come to the conclusion "Oh, he said he's O.K. with touching it, so it must be safe!" ...BZZZZZZZT!
Still, I suppose it might be fun to break out the full isolation suit and struggle up to the lamp and grasp the portion of it that, as you say, would not make me part of the circuit. Observers might think I'd lost it though and was trying to play 'space men in bright yellow rubber suits' in the living room. Call in the men in white coats! ;-)
Jimmy Rönnholm Do you know the precautions that you take when doing hot work? I do I've done it and its a pain in the ass! You think the average person is going to take the precautions just to change or check a lightbulb?
Gary L
Yes I do, and as the original comment I wrote stated, I would have no problem touching the lamp in the video as long as I am isolated from other potentials. Then I mentioned high voltage just to state it can be done there as well - OF COURSE with the right work methods, just as I said.
We use 3 barriers in sweden just working with low voltage(
ahh ok
It sure does! I had my first (and last) major shock when I was about 12 years old. I put an inline connector into a TV lead and decided to open it up. I thought I was opening the TV side, but it turned out to be the still-connected mains side. I'm pretty sure (if I remember this correctly) I grabbed one connector with one hand and the other with the other. It was one hell of a belt, and threw me back across the room. Felt quite wobbly for an hour or so. Pretty lucky to survive that one I reckon.
What the heck is 3 quid?
gtracer66 3 British pounds
Educate yourself. There are other countries than US in this world.
I was going to say 3 quid was Squiggy son III from (Laverne & Shirley)..LMAO
I bought one on eBay for $1.31 with free shipping to the US, but I got the E27 base instead. It had a clear plastic cover. Great light to replace incandescent!
There are no other countries, sorry. We know what a pound is. It's 16 ounces. Thanks for nothing.
Great video, I swapped all the bulbs in our house with LED bulbs from China, as they were all plastic on the outside, they were PROBABLY okay, but I would never have guessed some could be made this badly, generally when you buy stuff from China it has been engineered to be up to EU safety standards, obviously not in this case.
He doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. When the current goes through a rectifier it changes the current from ac to dc for starters. Diodes only except current from a single polarity configuration. The voltage going to the led array is between 3-50V max depending on the configuration of the LEDs. The could be configured in series or in parallel or a combination. Furthermore it's likely low amperage as well.
capatainzarlon: He knows one hell of a lot more about this than you do. Fact is the LEDs are connected to mains, irrespective of the voltage across the LEDs the voltage to earth or ground may still be at full mains potential and therefore lethal. And how does the current draw of the LEDs change anything? This is where you prove you know NOTHING so best you shut the xxxxx up and not lure people to death traps with bogus argument.
Well to be honest I don't have much experience in this, but if you put 230V straight to the 20-ish LEDs, wouldn't they break instantly? In that case, 50% of insertions would be reason to believe there would be quite some negative reviews on eBay? Because there aren't. This likely means that the voltage supplied to the LEDs (DC, not AC) would be stepped down A LOT meaning that it is harmless?